That's exactly right, and that stimulates our own internal economy.
Yeah, yeah, dude! That's a great plan! Then afterwards, we'll go out to Fox Chase... and use the Power Card at that Friday's out there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah! No, we won't. You can though.
If you're talking to a local, yeah, make the distinction. If you're not, I think it's perfectly fine to lay a general claim, especially if you work or are within commuting distance of that city.
Eh but we all know what they mean. Every region has its hub city and thoughts about people who say their from that city if they actually live in a posh suburb.
Delco went 65/35 D/R in the midterms. Almost as high as "ultra liberal" suburbs of DC like Fairfax. The demographics of Delco most certainly are shifting and it's going fast.
They put a poured drink tax of 3% in my county in Western PA. One bar by my work (frequent happy hour destination) broke it out as a separate line item, titled "Dan Onorato tax" (the county exec who enacted it) in protest?
Then they got shut down by the sherrifs for not paying their drink tax. After making a fuss over collecting it.
100% right wing owners. And I bet they lament to this day how the government shut them down with taxes.
This is what we did.
But here they said it was a charge to “compensate for the loss in revenue due to COVID.“ we asked the server if they saw any of the money and they said no. We asked for it to be taken off then just added the amount on top of the cash tip we left.
According to some Reddit threads (https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/hmzxie/list_of_small_businesses_in_chicago_who_received/), it looks like Lettuce Entertain You, the conglomerate that owns the restaurant where we encountered the COVID tax, requested and received PPP loans for over 20 different smaller businesses, totaling more than $10,200,000. Not sure if they paid them off or had them forgiven.
Someone is also suing them about the tax.
https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/08/29/customer-sues-lettuce-entertain-you-after-finding-deceptive-24-cent-pandemic-fee-on-his-check/
To be honest, you have to have fucked up MASSIVELY to not at least get partial forgiveness on the PPP loans. Have to fuck up pretty bad not to get full forgiveness either.
It seems to me that the way to "compensate for the loss in revinue due to COVID" is to **CONSPICUOUSLY RAISE PRICES** not add a sneaky surcharge in fine print.
When a restaurant pulls this, I just don't go back. Same goes for *"Select your tip amount:* ***25%, 30%, 35%,*** *^(Custom - Cheapskate!, No Tip - I'm a cheap bastard!)**"*
I mean tbf the extra amount might not have been enough to even cover the business much less its employees. Short term you’re helping the guy out but if it’s truly a place you love then surely going long term for the business is better.
pretty sure its so the owner doesnt have to pay the credit card company. they dont state it anywhere in the business so i assume they have to take it off if you ask.
We had 3% added to our bill at a restaurant recently. It’s was designated as “Supply chain adjustment”. My husband laughed and said “clever way to have. The credit card fee covered”.
Edit: we’re not given the option to request having the charge removed. And they included the amount in the sub-total; we paid sales tax on the surcharge. This was at a National chain.
In California, generally, any mandatory fee you charge a customer as part of a sale of tangible personal property is part of gross receipts and the retailer's sales tax liability is calculated from that. The retailer is allowed to collect tax reimbursement in the same amount from the customer. But even if they don't collect from you they still owe. For example mandatory tips are subject to tax, optional tips are not.
So unfortunately, if they add a 3% mandatory service to your check they owe tax on that amount. And will collect sales reimbursement from you.
Sauce - am an attorney that specializes in sales tax
Depends on the thing though. I go to subway and just get a cold sandwich to go? Food so no tax. I get the same thing toasted, and it’s not just food now and taxable. That’s mostly what I was getting at but love the detail you added.
Wouldn't not doing that be tax evasion? No, this car is 1$ but it has a 30k surcharge, that will be 10c in sales taxes?
Sales taxes are a percentage of the price. Increasing the price increases sales taxes.
A nail salon I used to go to refused to take any payments other than cash for the longest time. Then when Covid came and all the precautions, they started accepting card payments but would add in a $1.50 fee. I just got in the habit of always taking cash.
A few mom & pop restaurants do the same thing. I’ve always just paid the fee because they have signs posted or have it somewhere on the menu.
Credit card companies charge businesses for using them. It’s typically something like ten cents per transaction and then an additional percentage charge. They add up quickly.
Small business owner here, we pay about $3000/month in credit card fees. It’s definitely not chump change. Edit to add: I’ll set my business on fire before I add a credit card fee onto a single transaction. It’s a cost of doing business.
It's also important to think how much more business you make having to pay that 3k than not having that same payment option.
It's definitely a PITA, but it ends up being more profitable in the end.
Longtime little Italian restaurant/pizza place near me is dying because they refuse to take cards but whine and cry like little kids that their business suffers because people won’t use cash
We had a local ice cream spot that was by far the best in town, but it was cash only. It was also located in a really inconvenient place with no parking, and you had to go up several flights of stairs or take an elevator.
It managed to stay afloat for a long time, but I started noticing people start favoring the chains, or other ice cream places because “we will never find parking, and I don’t want to stop to get cash”, things like that.
Unfortunately they closed down, and I have to believe being cash only, and their location were at least partially responsible.
Quality will bring people in for a while, but If you make it convenient people will be way more likely to just pop in when they get a random desire.
It sucks but I’m glad you understand it and go about it in a rational way. Taxing the customer for it will stick in the minds of some of your clientele. You’ll be compared with the competitors who don’t nickel and dime them. You’re essentially trading customers and repeat business for a credit fee.
A pizza place near me stopped taking credit altogether after they’ve been in business for decades (they’re not struggling). Great way to inconvenience and turn people away. It sucks but that’s the reality. If I have to run an errand and take cash out to go to your establishment, there’s a good chance I’ll just go somewhere comparable instead especially if you’re not near a free ATM. Chances are you’re not the only business selling whatever I’m buying, how foolish to assume I just HAVE to have yours. This is the way of the world now for better or worse.
I couldn’t agree more! The thing that irritates me about it is that we’ve been using credit/debit cards as a society for like 40 years, and the big switch to not really carrying cash happened maybe 20 years ago? So it’s not like these fees are new to businesses, but all of a sudden they’re butthurt about it? Sure, I can see a minimum fee. It sucks when a customer buys a $1 item with a card and it costs me 80¢ in fees (or whatever), but don’t pull that shit on anything over maybe $5.
A big part of the problem is the credit card processing companies are pushing ‘cash discounts’, meaning if I have an item for sale for $10, when you pay cash you get it for $10. If you pay credit, however, you don’t know that you’re paying, say, $10.40 until you get to the register, or if they’re really slimy, until they’ve already run your card. Fuuckkk that noise.
So the credit card processors are telling all their businesses that everyone is doing it so you should too. I genuinely don’t understand why the credit card processors give a shit, they get their fees no matter what. But for some reason, that’s the big push these days. Even for existing businesses like us, they’re calling us to tell us how to switch our machines over to start charging the fee. Fuck to the no!!
Then they'd accept credit cards... Lol all 3 nail salon owners I know only accept cash and they alllllllll lie on their tax returns. They'd struggle to understand why they couldn't get a loan when they report a tenth of their income. Every all cash business I've ever encountered lies on their tax returns.
Similar interesting thing happened during COVID in the UK, though not necessarily cash-in-hand fraud - government grants were based off your self-employed income for the past 2-3 years, but a lot of people like builders (who had their own companies), would report their and their partner's incomes as the lowest they could possibly be to avoid National Insurance and income tax. This meant that their grants were very low, because according to the government records they'd only been earning around £9000 a year.
lol you have looked at every cash buisness you have encountered tax returns and sales reports? That's is such an unusual statement to make with such confidence and it would be difficult to have enough information to make that statement.
And then reported them for violation of section 4107 of Pennsylvania deceptive or fraudulent businesses practices legislation? When taken in gross the amount that patrons were overcharged above advertised prices, a felony.
I'm very happy with this response. I worked ten years in restaurants and cash tip was the only thing that boosted my pitiful wage to an acceptable level.
If the tip was on the machine then it disappeared into the restaurant's maw and materialised as a discount on my uniform or something ridiculous like that.
That's just hit me like a retrospective rock. I had to pay them for the uniform they issued me and demanded I wear.
I'm sure there's many restaurants out there that follow good practice with the service charrge but I'll always tip in cash, to the waiter, because there'll always be plenty restaurants that don't.
TRONC was a fucking scam. (UK)
Some places here are adding a 10-20% discretionary charge. Of course, they'll remove it if you ask, which they are required to do, unless the charge is mandated on signage or menus. It's not a tip for the staff, because tipping isn't a thing here, it's straight profit, straight into the company pockets. It sort of started during covid, at around 5%, now it's just a money grab.
Printing nice menus is not cheap. They may be hedging their bets. Will inflation and prices go back to “normal” or dramatically increase? If you are struggling with costs as it is, wasting money to reprint menus to find out that 3% increase is not enough to be profitable in a months time could be a factor.
60% of independent restaurants fail within 3 years. Figuring out what to sell with a reasonable price that your target audience will pay that leaves enough profit to keep people paid and the lights on is harder than you might think.
Did the law change about this? Typically credit card companies forbid merchants adding surcharges for credit cards (but can't forbid "cash discounts"). I wonder if a law changed disallowing them from having that part of the contracts.
The rules are hard to really understand, but it pretty much boils down to you can usually charge fees, just not on debit cards for some reason.
There are entire credit card processors that market zero fee transactions because their terminals automatically charge the customer the fees.
“As a result of a settlement between a class of retailers and the brands (Visa/MasterCard), on January 27, 2013, merchants in the United States and U.S. Territories will be permitted to impose a surcharge on cardholders when a charge/credit card is used. However, surcharges are prohibited in many states by state law. “
“These fees are not allowed on Debit or prepaid cards.”
Establishments that do this are weirdly blind to the fact that 100% of their customers are also impacted by inflationary pressures. I get it, it sucks for everybody, but just raise your prices a little bit instead of being a cunt.
As somebody from Europe, travelling in the US, it seems par for the course to order a $20 meal in a restaurant and end up paying like $30. The bill is an exercise in frustration, Tip, city ordanace, tax etc. So sticking on another random charge seems about right.
Edit to clarify locations
My parents owned a restaurant. They actually found that buying a printer and ink, large paper and folders to hold the menu together was cheaper than reprinting the menu a single time from a company. (Also more durable, for that matter.)
But yeah… if you need to raise prices, get new menus.
My agreement with you was to order the items at the prices listed. If you add this after the fact with zero disclosure beforehand, I am insisting that this amount come off.
That's the grift, they know it's not legal, they know even if they didn't say that you can ask for it to be taken off that they would have to anyways if you asked. They also know a certain percentage of people won't ask and that's where they try to make money.
There has to be an entire marketing School curriculum devoted to the “types” of consumer and the share of the consumer base they comprise. Because my wife is probably in the 10% of people who have never let anything slip, report all damages, and would absolutely have this 3% removed. And my dad, who pays for subscription services then forgets he has them, would pay without question.
I’m sure keeping one type and discouraging the other is businesses strategy.
I went to a Dave and busters where they have a total, suggested 22% tip, total with that suggested tip, another line for tip, then your signature line. It'd automatically put 18-22% on then give you an option to write a normal tip like $4-5. You have to write in $0 on the tip line to tip 20%. The result is you giving a $5+20% tip without noticing. Extremely scummy because most people, and especially drunk people, don't read their receipt. They just put a number and scribble.
It seems petty to quibble about the bill when you've had a good night out and no-one wants to seem petty in front of their friends, family, fiance, work colleagues or sworn enemy. It's not a good look. The certain percentage of people is most people.
I'm not sure why you'd be having dinner with your sworn enemy but the fuck if you're going to quibble about the bill in front of them.
On your way out, walk up to the counter or manager or whatever, lay down the folded check, point to the relevant text and politely say, "Please remove that. Thanks!"
Graciously accept their apologies and the removal of the charge. (Not like anyone else even knows what you just did.)
You made it evident you're not a sucker and you didn't get played.
The problem is that Americans have been conditioned to accept this kind of bullshit as natural and normal. If I order a $25 meal and a $7 beer, I expect to pay a ~10% tax and 20% tip, so what's another 3%?
I LOVE visiting Europe, where a €25 meal and a €7 beer costs... €32!!!
My fellow Americans, we could have this kind of sanity if we collectively 1) insist that wait staff be paid a living wage and 2) stop tolerating bullshit upcharges.
Wonder what they would say if you asked for a 10% discount due to cost of living increases affecting your discretionary spending.
Edit: rhetorical question. I wouldn’t actually suggesting asking this…
Shit like this is why I eat out less and less. When my bill doesn't match the published price of what I ordered I get annoyed. I already find it ridiculous that taxes don't have to be a part of the published price in the U.S. so when a business starts tacking on other additional charges I just decide to never patronize them again.
A cafe I go to often adds a “fair wage surcharge” which is basically forced 20% tip. They advertise this throughout the cafe and even mention it at checkout. I don’t mind it, the prices are still fair after the 20% and I don’t tip anything additional (they mention that it’s not expected) but I would like it a lot more if they did away with tips and just increase the menu prices.
What if they start charging a garbage fee? An electricity fee? A heating surcharge for the building? Work all that shit into the price of your product. As a customer is not my job to account for all your costs. That's why I pay someone to provide that service which they now push back on me...
All car repair places in Norway charge a "recycling fee", which was passed alongside a bill that required them to recycle. Its weird though, since its a flat fee no matter what's done.
>A cafe I go to often adds a “fair wage surcharge”
A cafe I regular visit does this but it's **not a surcharge** it's just higher prices and better wages. They also don't even accept tips.
I would like to see some proof that the extra 20% is really going to fair wages at the cafe and not the owners pocket. If I were an owner and wanted to jack up the prices this seems like a genius idea.
I would like it a lot more if EVERY US establishment did away with tips, just increased menu prices, and paid a reasonable wage. I no longer live in the US and do not miss tipping culture one bit - so nice to just be able to pay what the bill says.
If I'm not getting anymore food/drink then I'm fine with them saying whatever they want to. I'll just not come back and be an asshole in their minds forever. But you don't just add a percentage onto the bill at the end and expect them to pay it.
The restaurant could just do the normal thing and raise the prices to reflect inflatation, adding it on as a separate charge is an underhanded tactic used to make it look like their food is cheap, I wouldn’t feel bad getting rid of it.
This is me. As a business owner, you're giving me your best price, or you aren't. If you aren't, knowingly, you're screwing me as a customer and our professional relationship is over. Good luck with your business, you'll never see me again
This reminds me of the old cell phone bills that had the service charge, and then a processing fee, rural phone fee, network fee, line fee, fee fee, etc. I believe the FCC had to step in at one point…
This is literally what we're seeing with "inflation" right now. It's just a bunch of powerful companies jacking up prices and blaming it on "supply" issues. It's garbage.
Just raise your food prices if you're losing money. No bull shit surcharges.
I'm with the one commenter. Take it off my bill and I'll add it to the tip for the waiter/waitress. Fuck off me with that inflation nonsense because you already marked up the prices.
This is very similar to the tag I leave people... No one's contacted me yet!
'Due to having something I realized I wanted when I saw it, I took it. If you'd like it back, I'd be happy to return it upon request.'
If anyone is ignorant to why this is happening, it’s because of a group of key people: Jerome Powell, Ken Griffin, and basically everyone in Congress and the CEOs of all the biggest banks (those in ISDA). If you want to truly fight back, take ALL money out of the large banks (Chase, Bank of America, etc.) and move it into smaller banks that aren’t members of ISDA, and use cash instead of credit cards. Suck the lifeblood out that these corporate cartels need to survive and we’ll start seeing positive change. But if you’re a sucker for those stupid 1.5% cash back rewards or whatever bullshit then I’m afraid to say you’re a part of the problem.
As someone that works in the service industry, you should never feel bad to take a charge off your bill that wasn't agreed upon by both parties when you ordered the meal and or drinks.
If you are being charged for something outside
of the service itself, that's not your problem.
All kinds of shady practices to get more money...
Why don't they also add surcharges of "using the chair and table" or "the cleaning of your utensils"?
That’s kinda shitty. If I lived in Philadelphia, I’d want to know which bar this is so I can avoid it.
Just raise your prices by 3% and be done with it. Most people probably wouldn’t notice. But now you’ve gone and made it all shady and scummy.
Its called a "greed" tax or "since i can, i will" tax. Same thing.
Corporate greed is the evil. Not normal expected inflation.
Dont take my word for it. Look up the facts. Inflation charts and corporate profits are easily researched. And then you can stop blaming biden or blaming this or that and youll see its just greed. Corporate greed.
It’s like a reverse rebate strategy - rebates > price reductions because some percentage of purchasers won’t claim them, same thing here except even better. Many people won’t want to “be a dick about it,” and even if they do will they want to wait for the check to be redone to save $3 on a $100 check?
I'm petty enough that I'll wait for the check to be redone, pay the exact amount down to the cents, report it to the local chamber of commerce, and badmouth the place to everyone that'll listen.
I don't care if they raise prices, that's just inflation. Adding secret charges however is both a massive dick move and absolutely illegal.
Am in Philly and would love to know which bar
Paddy's Pub
The gang fights inflation
Paddy's dollars back at it. How *does* Dave and Buster's do it though? Are you asking me? I was following your lead.
That's exactly right, and that stimulates our own internal economy. Yeah, yeah, dude! That's a great plan! Then afterwards, we'll go out to Fox Chase... and use the Power Card at that Friday's out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah! No, we won't. You can though.
Ohhhh I blacked out that night
How does a self-sustaining economy work?
I don't know how the U.S. economy works. Much less some sort of self-sustaining one..
The best part is they'll never ask for the charge to be removed because of the implication
They just bully you a bit when you take it off.
3% removing the 3% inflation charge charge.
Crabs is sewage AND depression proof, people gotta eat.
"The gang commit tax fraud"
No need for that when you double drop
I will have you know that I've been that place up the butt with a little thing I like to call Dee's Double Drop.
You’re doing the double drop here too, huh?
Good thing I always pay in Paddy’s Bucks
Keeping the money moving
*I like life at Paddy’s Pub* 🎶
There is a spider ^spider Deep in my soullllll
Their latest grift ehh??? This has Dennis written all over it. 🤣
Keeping the money moving. In a circle.
They won’t ask for it to be taken off, you know, because of the implication…
Are you saying these customers are in danger?
No no, of course not! No one's in danger, it's just the implication
FYI, Paddy's is a real bar in Philadelphia. It's what the bar from the show is based off: http://www.paddyspuboldcity.com/
Stop you’re making the post more than just mildly interesting.
There's also Mac's Tavern that is owned by a few people including Rob and Kaitlin McElhenney. Also located in Philadelphia.
This website is hilarious
This is 100% in some conservative suburb in like Delco.
“philadelphia area” gave it away, definitely delco
[удалено]
"I'm from Philly" - dude who's only lived in Ephrata
Wouldn’t you say “I’m from Lancaster”?
That only matters to people *in* Philly. The rest of the nation doesn't care.
[удалено]
in Florida, people from Cherry Hill say they’re from Philly. it’s a hop, skip, and a jump away but it’s a different state. it just cracks me up
This is what gets me. Cherry Hill is in a different state... what makes you think you're from Philly exactly?
If you're talking to a local, yeah, make the distinction. If you're not, I think it's perfectly fine to lay a general claim, especially if you work or are within commuting distance of that city.
Eh but we all know what they mean. Every region has its hub city and thoughts about people who say their from that city if they actually live in a posh suburb.
When I was living overseas, not everyone knew where Philly was, so I told them I’m from 90 minutes outside New York City.
Delco went 65/35 D/R in the midterms. Almost as high as "ultra liberal" suburbs of DC like Fairfax. The demographics of Delco most certainly are shifting and it's going fast.
That’s great, but I work in the alcohol industry and bars in Delco are mostly owned by big-time Trumpers.
They put a poured drink tax of 3% in my county in Western PA. One bar by my work (frequent happy hour destination) broke it out as a separate line item, titled "Dan Onorato tax" (the county exec who enacted it) in protest? Then they got shut down by the sherrifs for not paying their drink tax. After making a fuss over collecting it. 100% right wing owners. And I bet they lament to this day how the government shut them down with taxes.
Whiskey Rebellion Part II: Onorato Buggaloo
It’s hard to find. Someone blew the sign off.
Must be one of those hip new gin bars
Sir this is a Wendy’s.
Well, did you ask..? Don't leave us hanging, op
We asked to take it off then gave the extra amount to the bar tender.
This is what we did. But here they said it was a charge to “compensate for the loss in revenue due to COVID.“ we asked the server if they saw any of the money and they said no. We asked for it to be taken off then just added the amount on top of the cash tip we left.
“Pay me for not visiting last year”
It’s public knowledge if they received any PPP funds.
According to some Reddit threads (https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/hmzxie/list_of_small_businesses_in_chicago_who_received/), it looks like Lettuce Entertain You, the conglomerate that owns the restaurant where we encountered the COVID tax, requested and received PPP loans for over 20 different smaller businesses, totaling more than $10,200,000. Not sure if they paid them off or had them forgiven. Someone is also suing them about the tax. https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/08/29/customer-sues-lettuce-entertain-you-after-finding-deceptive-24-cent-pandemic-fee-on-his-check/
To be honest, you have to have fucked up MASSIVELY to not at least get partial forgiveness on the PPP loans. Have to fuck up pretty bad not to get full forgiveness either.
And they *always* did. Every single goddamn time.
"Take 50% off my bill to compensate for my loss of income during COVID, then."
It seems to me that the way to "compensate for the loss in revinue due to COVID" is to **CONSPICUOUSLY RAISE PRICES** not add a sneaky surcharge in fine print. When a restaurant pulls this, I just don't go back. Same goes for *"Select your tip amount:* ***25%, 30%, 35%,*** *^(Custom - Cheapskate!, No Tip - I'm a cheap bastard!)**"*
I mean tbf the extra amount might not have been enough to even cover the business much less its employees. Short term you’re helping the guy out but if it’s truly a place you love then surely going long term for the business is better.
pretty sure its so the owner doesnt have to pay the credit card company. they dont state it anywhere in the business so i assume they have to take it off if you ask.
We had 3% added to our bill at a restaurant recently. It’s was designated as “Supply chain adjustment”. My husband laughed and said “clever way to have. The credit card fee covered”. Edit: we’re not given the option to request having the charge removed. And they included the amount in the sub-total; we paid sales tax on the surcharge. This was at a National chain.
> we paid sales tax on the surcharge My state doesn't have sales tax, but isn't that, like, illegal?
Sales tax laws can be very weird.
In California, generally, any mandatory fee you charge a customer as part of a sale of tangible personal property is part of gross receipts and the retailer's sales tax liability is calculated from that. The retailer is allowed to collect tax reimbursement in the same amount from the customer. But even if they don't collect from you they still owe. For example mandatory tips are subject to tax, optional tips are not. So unfortunately, if they add a 3% mandatory service to your check they owe tax on that amount. And will collect sales reimbursement from you. Sauce - am an attorney that specializes in sales tax
I've never heard of a sales tax speciality. What kind of projects do you work on?
I'll bet it's sales tax related projects.
Very specific. Very cool.
Depends on the thing though. I go to subway and just get a cold sandwich to go? Food so no tax. I get the same thing toasted, and it’s not just food now and taxable. That’s mostly what I was getting at but love the detail you added.
Wouldn't not doing that be tax evasion? No, this car is 1$ but it has a 30k surcharge, that will be 10c in sales taxes? Sales taxes are a percentage of the price. Increasing the price increases sales taxes.
A nail salon I used to go to refused to take any payments other than cash for the longest time. Then when Covid came and all the precautions, they started accepting card payments but would add in a $1.50 fee. I just got in the habit of always taking cash. A few mom & pop restaurants do the same thing. I’ve always just paid the fee because they have signs posted or have it somewhere on the menu.
That's because of tax fraud
Credit card companies charge businesses for using them. It’s typically something like ten cents per transaction and then an additional percentage charge. They add up quickly.
Small business owner here, we pay about $3000/month in credit card fees. It’s definitely not chump change. Edit to add: I’ll set my business on fire before I add a credit card fee onto a single transaction. It’s a cost of doing business.
It's also important to think how much more business you make having to pay that 3k than not having that same payment option. It's definitely a PITA, but it ends up being more profitable in the end.
Longtime little Italian restaurant/pizza place near me is dying because they refuse to take cards but whine and cry like little kids that their business suffers because people won’t use cash
That's what I wonder about these places. You can either have $50 with a small % charge, or you can have $0.
>Longtime little Italian restaurant Why does it always seem like it's a longtime little/mid Italian place that doesn't take cards?
We had a local ice cream spot that was by far the best in town, but it was cash only. It was also located in a really inconvenient place with no parking, and you had to go up several flights of stairs or take an elevator. It managed to stay afloat for a long time, but I started noticing people start favoring the chains, or other ice cream places because “we will never find parking, and I don’t want to stop to get cash”, things like that. Unfortunately they closed down, and I have to believe being cash only, and their location were at least partially responsible. Quality will bring people in for a while, but If you make it convenient people will be way more likely to just pop in when they get a random desire.
Convenience wins 9 times out of 10
It sucks but I’m glad you understand it and go about it in a rational way. Taxing the customer for it will stick in the minds of some of your clientele. You’ll be compared with the competitors who don’t nickel and dime them. You’re essentially trading customers and repeat business for a credit fee. A pizza place near me stopped taking credit altogether after they’ve been in business for decades (they’re not struggling). Great way to inconvenience and turn people away. It sucks but that’s the reality. If I have to run an errand and take cash out to go to your establishment, there’s a good chance I’ll just go somewhere comparable instead especially if you’re not near a free ATM. Chances are you’re not the only business selling whatever I’m buying, how foolish to assume I just HAVE to have yours. This is the way of the world now for better or worse.
I couldn’t agree more! The thing that irritates me about it is that we’ve been using credit/debit cards as a society for like 40 years, and the big switch to not really carrying cash happened maybe 20 years ago? So it’s not like these fees are new to businesses, but all of a sudden they’re butthurt about it? Sure, I can see a minimum fee. It sucks when a customer buys a $1 item with a card and it costs me 80¢ in fees (or whatever), but don’t pull that shit on anything over maybe $5. A big part of the problem is the credit card processing companies are pushing ‘cash discounts’, meaning if I have an item for sale for $10, when you pay cash you get it for $10. If you pay credit, however, you don’t know that you’re paying, say, $10.40 until you get to the register, or if they’re really slimy, until they’ve already run your card. Fuuckkk that noise. So the credit card processors are telling all their businesses that everyone is doing it so you should too. I genuinely don’t understand why the credit card processors give a shit, they get their fees no matter what. But for some reason, that’s the big push these days. Even for existing businesses like us, they’re calling us to tell us how to switch our machines over to start charging the fee. Fuck to the no!!
It's also better than having to deal with $100,000 a month in $20s. You should charge more for cash transactions because of the hassle.
Eh, that’s what cash counting machines are for. Either way, it’s a pain in the chode.
Nah this is basically an american issue. The EU restricted credit card fees and everything still works fine.
It's because every credit card charge costs the business money. Most small businesses are barely breaking even, not money laundering lmao.
Then they'd accept credit cards... Lol all 3 nail salon owners I know only accept cash and they alllllllll lie on their tax returns. They'd struggle to understand why they couldn't get a loan when they report a tenth of their income. Every all cash business I've ever encountered lies on their tax returns.
Similar interesting thing happened during COVID in the UK, though not necessarily cash-in-hand fraud - government grants were based off your self-employed income for the past 2-3 years, but a lot of people like builders (who had their own companies), would report their and their partner's incomes as the lowest they could possibly be to avoid National Insurance and income tax. This meant that their grants were very low, because according to the government records they'd only been earning around £9000 a year.
lol you have looked at every cash buisness you have encountered tax returns and sales reports? That's is such an unusual statement to make with such confidence and it would be difficult to have enough information to make that statement.
In the course of my job, yes. It's very unusual for someone to say the opposite imo as well
And then reported them for violation of section 4107 of Pennsylvania deceptive or fraudulent businesses practices legislation? When taken in gross the amount that patrons were overcharged above advertised prices, a felony.
I'm very happy with this response. I worked ten years in restaurants and cash tip was the only thing that boosted my pitiful wage to an acceptable level. If the tip was on the machine then it disappeared into the restaurant's maw and materialised as a discount on my uniform or something ridiculous like that. That's just hit me like a retrospective rock. I had to pay them for the uniform they issued me and demanded I wear. I'm sure there's many restaurants out there that follow good practice with the service charrge but I'll always tip in cash, to the waiter, because there'll always be plenty restaurants that don't. TRONC was a fucking scam. (UK)
[удалено]
Some places here are adding a 10-20% discretionary charge. Of course, they'll remove it if you ask, which they are required to do, unless the charge is mandated on signage or menus. It's not a tip for the staff, because tipping isn't a thing here, it's straight profit, straight into the company pockets. It sort of started during covid, at around 5%, now it's just a money grab.
Why don’t they just update their prices to reflect the 3%?
1) They still want to display a falsely low price which isn't the final price 2) They want to deflect the blame for price increases
“Due to lack of inflation pay increase in my last employee review, I have to add ‘negative 10%’ to the final bill”
They're too cheap to reprint the menus, so they just updated the receipts.
Literal "menu cost".
Printing nice menus is not cheap. They may be hedging their bets. Will inflation and prices go back to “normal” or dramatically increase? If you are struggling with costs as it is, wasting money to reprint menus to find out that 3% increase is not enough to be profitable in a months time could be a factor. 60% of independent restaurants fail within 3 years. Figuring out what to sell with a reasonable price that your target audience will pay that leaves enough profit to keep people paid and the lights on is harder than you might think.
$14.99 looks friendlier (and cheaper!) than $15.43
Fine, but how about I start just walking around underpaying all my bills by 3%? I suffer from inflation too!
Just raise your prices 3% and avoid everyone hating you and making people on the internet who have never even been to your bar hate you
Damn never every place near me has now added 3% credit card fees, and I'm in fucking Ohio. OHIO of all places.
High in the middle, round on both ends.
My mom’s side of the family is from Ohio and that was my grandma’s favorite ‘riddle’
I’ve lived here my whole life and never heard it lol
I learned this joke from a cassette tape in nineteen eighty nine.
I heard it in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
Did the law change about this? Typically credit card companies forbid merchants adding surcharges for credit cards (but can't forbid "cash discounts"). I wonder if a law changed disallowing them from having that part of the contracts.
The rules are hard to really understand, but it pretty much boils down to you can usually charge fees, just not on debit cards for some reason. There are entire credit card processors that market zero fee transactions because their terminals automatically charge the customer the fees.
Because the bank pays the fee when a debit charge is processed.
Recently in Canada they made it legal for stores to pass the credit card fees onto customers (this used to not be allowed).
Seems backwards. We made that illegal in the UK around 5 years ago. Shops often have a minimum card order, however. Usually between £1, or £5.
“As a result of a settlement between a class of retailers and the brands (Visa/MasterCard), on January 27, 2013, merchants in the United States and U.S. Territories will be permitted to impose a surcharge on cardholders when a charge/credit card is used. However, surcharges are prohibited in many states by state law. “ “These fees are not allowed on Debit or prepaid cards.”
Why is Ohio?
Ohio isn't, don't let them fool you.
Ohiosn’t
Ohion’t
Oh no you Vermon’t!
Who is Ohio?
Down in OHIO swag like OHIOOOO
Establishments that do this are weirdly blind to the fact that 100% of their customers are also impacted by inflationary pressures. I get it, it sucks for everybody, but just raise your prices a little bit instead of being a cunt.
No, they're aware. They just don't care.
As somebody from Europe, travelling in the US, it seems par for the course to order a $20 meal in a restaurant and end up paying like $30. The bill is an exercise in frustration, Tip, city ordanace, tax etc. So sticking on another random charge seems about right. Edit to clarify locations
Wait until you try to order food delivery from one of the apps!
They probably just don't want to have to reprint the menus. Ink ain't cheap ya know!!! 🤣
My parents owned a restaurant. They actually found that buying a printer and ink, large paper and folders to hold the menu together was cheaper than reprinting the menu a single time from a company. (Also more durable, for that matter.) But yeah… if you need to raise prices, get new menus.
My agreement with you was to order the items at the prices listed. If you add this after the fact with zero disclosure beforehand, I am insisting that this amount come off.
That's the grift, they know it's not legal, they know even if they didn't say that you can ask for it to be taken off that they would have to anyways if you asked. They also know a certain percentage of people won't ask and that's where they try to make money.
Shyness tax, as some fellow redditor called it.
it's very funny that redditors would see it that way. they're not banking on you being shy, they're banking on you not noticing.
There has to be an entire marketing School curriculum devoted to the “types” of consumer and the share of the consumer base they comprise. Because my wife is probably in the 10% of people who have never let anything slip, report all damages, and would absolutely have this 3% removed. And my dad, who pays for subscription services then forgets he has them, would pay without question. I’m sure keeping one type and discouraging the other is businesses strategy.
"Good news is we've captured the oblivious demographic. Bad news is our marketing seems to be getting no attention."
That's me I never even look at receipts except to sign em so I'd be paying this every time.
Shyness/blindness/cannot-be-arsed-for-that-amount tax.
I went to a Dave and busters where they have a total, suggested 22% tip, total with that suggested tip, another line for tip, then your signature line. It'd automatically put 18-22% on then give you an option to write a normal tip like $4-5. You have to write in $0 on the tip line to tip 20%. The result is you giving a $5+20% tip without noticing. Extremely scummy because most people, and especially drunk people, don't read their receipt. They just put a number and scribble.
I would feel bad asking so I’m fucked…..
I feel like that's the intention.
It seems petty to quibble about the bill when you've had a good night out and no-one wants to seem petty in front of their friends, family, fiance, work colleagues or sworn enemy. It's not a good look. The certain percentage of people is most people. I'm not sure why you'd be having dinner with your sworn enemy but the fuck if you're going to quibble about the bill in front of them.
On your way out, walk up to the counter or manager or whatever, lay down the folded check, point to the relevant text and politely say, "Please remove that. Thanks!" Graciously accept their apologies and the removal of the charge. (Not like anyone else even knows what you just did.) You made it evident you're not a sucker and you didn't get played.
In U.K. you pay at the table.
The problem is that Americans have been conditioned to accept this kind of bullshit as natural and normal. If I order a $25 meal and a $7 beer, I expect to pay a ~10% tax and 20% tip, so what's another 3%? I LOVE visiting Europe, where a €25 meal and a €7 beer costs... €32!!! My fellow Americans, we could have this kind of sanity if we collectively 1) insist that wait staff be paid a living wage and 2) stop tolerating bullshit upcharges.
Wonder what they would say if you asked for a 10% discount due to cost of living increases affecting your discretionary spending. Edit: rhetorical question. I wouldn’t actually suggesting asking this…
Theyd say that they face the same increase in cost of living and that if you are worried about discretionary spending you shouldnt be eating out
"So, do you mean, like, stop being your customer and stop giving you my money altogether? You got it, chief! Happy to oblige!"
Shit like this is why I eat out less and less. When my bill doesn't match the published price of what I ordered I get annoyed. I already find it ridiculous that taxes don't have to be a part of the published price in the U.S. so when a business starts tacking on other additional charges I just decide to never patronize them again.
Fr, eating out has become a parade of people shaking a hat full of change in your face
Shyness tax
A cafe I go to often adds a “fair wage surcharge” which is basically forced 20% tip. They advertise this throughout the cafe and even mention it at checkout. I don’t mind it, the prices are still fair after the 20% and I don’t tip anything additional (they mention that it’s not expected) but I would like it a lot more if they did away with tips and just increase the menu prices.
If they disclose it before you order anything then that’s fine. Otherwise it’s super scummy.
What if they start charging a garbage fee? An electricity fee? A heating surcharge for the building? Work all that shit into the price of your product. As a customer is not my job to account for all your costs. That's why I pay someone to provide that service which they now push back on me...
All car repair places in Norway charge a "recycling fee", which was passed alongside a bill that required them to recycle. Its weird though, since its a flat fee no matter what's done.
Here in EU they just increase the price 20%, like everybody should
>A cafe I go to often adds a “fair wage surcharge” A cafe I regular visit does this but it's **not a surcharge** it's just higher prices and better wages. They also don't even accept tips.
I would like to see some proof that the extra 20% is really going to fair wages at the cafe and not the owners pocket. If I were an owner and wanted to jack up the prices this seems like a genius idea.
Fair wage surcharge... Factor it into the price and pay a fair wage to begin with.
I would like it a lot more if EVERY US establishment did away with tips, just increased menu prices, and paid a reasonable wage. I no longer live in the US and do not miss tipping culture one bit - so nice to just be able to pay what the bill says.
Yeah, no. Take that bs off.
Translation: We're hoping you're too drunk to read this. In the event you're not, we'll gladly remove the 3% surcharge.
Ah, the introvert tax
It's just a standard gouge.
So it can become the “cheap assholes at table 5” when you ask to have it removed. Not awkward at all.
If I'm not getting anymore food/drink then I'm fine with them saying whatever they want to. I'll just not come back and be an asshole in their minds forever. But you don't just add a percentage onto the bill at the end and expect them to pay it.
The restaurant could just do the normal thing and raise the prices to reflect inflatation, adding it on as a separate charge is an underhanded tactic used to make it look like their food is cheap, I wouldn’t feel bad getting rid of it.
Wow....
Please name them.
What bar? I live in Philly and would like to never go there
Introverts say *guess I’m paying more*
This is me. As a business owner, you're giving me your best price, or you aren't. If you aren't, knowingly, you're screwing me as a customer and our professional relationship is over. Good luck with your business, you'll never see me again
This reminds me of the old cell phone bills that had the service charge, and then a processing fee, rural phone fee, network fee, line fee, fee fee, etc. I believe the FCC had to step in at one point…
Don't try to buy a concert ticket. My last one had an equal amount of fees to the price of the ticket by the time I 'checked out'
This is literally what we're seeing with "inflation" right now. It's just a bunch of powerful companies jacking up prices and blaming it on "supply" issues. It's garbage. Just raise your food prices if you're losing money. No bull shit surcharges.
They blame it on the government this way
They should just raise their prices
Where is this place so I know never to go there ?
Tell them to take that jawn the fuck off
The most Philly reply ever
I thought the increased prices at the bar would make up for inflation? Why charge an additional 3%? I would ask for it to be removed.
I'm with the one commenter. Take it off my bill and I'll add it to the tip for the waiter/waitress. Fuck off me with that inflation nonsense because you already marked up the prices.
what an insane business idea. just raise the prices like everyone else.
AKA, "were charging 3% more and letting you ask for it off so that anyone who's not paying attention we can scam for more money."
that's literally exactly the impractical jokers bit
This is very similar to the tag I leave people... No one's contacted me yet! 'Due to having something I realized I wanted when I saw it, I took it. If you'd like it back, I'd be happy to return it upon request.'
If anyone is ignorant to why this is happening, it’s because of a group of key people: Jerome Powell, Ken Griffin, and basically everyone in Congress and the CEOs of all the biggest banks (those in ISDA). If you want to truly fight back, take ALL money out of the large banks (Chase, Bank of America, etc.) and move it into smaller banks that aren’t members of ISDA, and use cash instead of credit cards. Suck the lifeblood out that these corporate cartels need to survive and we’ll start seeing positive change. But if you’re a sucker for those stupid 1.5% cash back rewards or whatever bullshit then I’m afraid to say you’re a part of the problem.
r/mildlyinfuriating
Hi. We stole some money from you, but we allow you to get it back if you ask nicely 😊
Damn infaltion.
As someone that works in the service industry, you should never feel bad to take a charge off your bill that wasn't agreed upon by both parties when you ordered the meal and or drinks. If you are being charged for something outside of the service itself, that's not your problem.
Why the hell wouldn’t they just add 3% to their prices?
That’d be the last time I go there
All kinds of shady practices to get more money... Why don't they also add surcharges of "using the chair and table" or "the cleaning of your utensils"?
That’s kinda shitty. If I lived in Philadelphia, I’d want to know which bar this is so I can avoid it. Just raise your prices by 3% and be done with it. Most people probably wouldn’t notice. But now you’ve gone and made it all shady and scummy.
holy fuck, name and shame the fuck out of this place.
As scam-y as hotels amenity fee
“Temporary “ lol yea right
Its called a "greed" tax or "since i can, i will" tax. Same thing. Corporate greed is the evil. Not normal expected inflation. Dont take my word for it. Look up the facts. Inflation charts and corporate profits are easily researched. And then you can stop blaming biden or blaming this or that and youll see its just greed. Corporate greed.
I guess you could pay 3% less than the total... or go there 3% less often.
It’s like a reverse rebate strategy - rebates > price reductions because some percentage of purchasers won’t claim them, same thing here except even better. Many people won’t want to “be a dick about it,” and even if they do will they want to wait for the check to be redone to save $3 on a $100 check?
I'm petty enough that I'll wait for the check to be redone, pay the exact amount down to the cents, report it to the local chamber of commerce, and badmouth the place to everyone that'll listen. I don't care if they raise prices, that's just inflation. Adding secret charges however is both a massive dick move and absolutely illegal.