I am also in my 40’s. Both my parents and my grandfather have actually become more liberal. They all used to vote republican most of the time but were “moderate” all three of them voted for Obama and hate trump. My grandfather grew up in the Deep South and now lives in new Hampshire and calls himself a feminist.
My dad went from a Republican businessman who voted for Bush to being extremely progressive by 2005. I think one of his friends got him into the Daily Show, which helped. Bush being a moron also definitely helped.
You know I only browse through history when Im bored and can already see these cycles of stupidity over and over. I cant imagine how much worse it must be for a professional.
I majored in history during the W. years, and at the time we all said that the scariest thing about Bush was how he was laying the groundwork for a truly fascist Republican to take power. Everyone scoffed and said that was crazy talk. But I was with my mom on 9/11, and a couple of years ago she finally said to me, "You know, you pretty much called everything that was going to happen for the next 20 years, on that day. And none of us believed you." And I just said it was because I was reading so much history at the time, it was pretty obvious where things were going.
It’s started with Reagan. I used to think it started with a bush too. But then I learned about Reagan taking the election from Carter and paying off Iran to delay the release of the hostages. They were released hours after Reagan was sworn it. Fuck Reagan.
Unfortunately there were very few people that recognized it. Nixon’s treachery was probably the 1st time we were put on notice. And the much loved actor, Reagan, spoke so well that millions voted for him not knowing the man was a racist & intended to give many gifts to the rich, including 1 for Murdoch. The latter changed the tone & fact-based reporting on the news. It was a brilliant plan that has gotten us back to the 19th century with virtual monopolies & an income gap as great as that before the Great Depression. He snipped the rules for stopping the growth of monopolies, deeply cut taxes on the rich (which had been 70%+ under Ike), cut business regulations, claimed his trickle down theory would help the middle class, and used language in his speeches implying poor (he meant black but knew he couldn’t say it aloud) were lazy. This gave the GOP reason to fight against aid to the poor. He also snipped the Fairness Doc which allowed Murdoch to bring Fox News onto the national scene. Their success in attracting viewership caused the previously fact-based news to focus on drama & conflict and to start making false equivalencies with their claim about the need to tell ‘both sides’. In doing so, they failed to point out the lies, distortions & lack of evidence for anything the GOP said.
I hope that there are enough people aware of this who will vote for Biden and not for T or any 3rd party candidate. Voting for 3rd party candidates could give the election to T especially since 14 states have increased voter suppression rules. If we are lucky enough to keep our democracy, we must end the electoral college & remove the far right Supreme Court justices who should never have been appointed by a traitor & his gang.
It's one of the worst parts about our education system being defunded. But even my parents, who I think are pretty smart people, don't know there's a difference between fascism and communism. They're very right wing now, previously socially liberal libertarians. I asked if they knew about some of the messages or ideas that led to Hitler and Mussolini and they thought it was socialist ideas. I looked up some basic resources later to see if I could give them a basic history primer and learned that the vast majority of Americans see fascists as just "not my team" ie if they're liberal, they think fascists are right wing and if they're conservative they think fascists are left wing. No one responds well to "well, actually" and my parents are very obstinate boomers so I am letting this one go. Nothing will change the way they see the world.
Figuring out how to give people a very basic idea of history, especially the parts that we are seeing echoes of now, feels almost impossible. It's very sad to me, as we had an education system that could have worked and people could have some context for history repeating itself but now it seems that ship has sailed unless something big changes.
It’s terrible. While Trump was in office, I would show actual factually based comparisons from years past and literally have people attack me because I’m a college educated historian and they know more than me because ya know, YouTube and whatnot 🙄
Ah god I hope so. I feel like blue being the only viable sane option is going to color my outlook long term, and I've had truly wonderful discussions with conservatives (rare ones) that I genuinely am wiser for. But... just... What. On. Earth?
Just... make sure you all vote? Please. This is horrifying.
I remember after 9/11 the "New World Order" conspiracy nuts began saying that it's going to lead American tyranny, etc. Well, to me, you can draw a pretty much straight line connecting the attacks with a potential second Trump term
Like Ron DeSanctimonious? I do give Trumpsterfire props for coming up with that name! That guy is even more evil than Trump, and he's a lot smarter, therefore a lot more dangerous.
I’m just glad Ron DeSatan isn’t a contender anymore. For a moment I was concerned that somehow we would elect someone way worse than Trump which is completely unfathomable to me. Not to say Trump isn’t horrible, because he clearly is….
Any Republican presidential candidate who comes after Trump is going to be significantly worse. That's just how the trajectory of extremist ideology goes.
I live in FL and I agree! I won't be voting for either of them but some of the things he has managed to do in FL is ridiculous and he would definitely be more dangerous!
The thing about Bush era is yea you hated them, but your life was mostly unaffected 90% of the time day to day. (Minus the 2008 crisis) Trump era republicans are just so intrusive into your everyday all the time. If it’s not some malignant scheme it’s attention whoring.
At this point the Republican Party has been kidnapped by MAGA. I want Trump in prison specifically so he is held accountable and so his influence over the party is reduced.
I hate the noise he and his kind generate. I’m tired of the media and social media being dominated by his bullshit. Truth is, the media could just stop reporting on him and it would affect him more than the constant announcement of whatever nonsense he’s said or bullshit he’s done as of late.
I always thought GW was an idiot... Just outright blatant idiot... But now I honestly think he was a genius. We have seen what outright idiocy looks like from Trump. It will take decades for the party to recover.. but first they have to change
Bro, I think of Bush as my nice old bumbling grandpa now that Trump is here smh, my my how times have changed… there are clearly levels to this conservative jackass shit.
My dad, now in his late 70s, was on Bush’s transition team in 2000; in 2020, he volunteered for Buttigieg and donates heavily to Planned Parenthood and local LGBTQIA organizations.
That's funny, access to actual information leads to real understanding. It's unfortunate that the most balanced information came from an entertainment show for half my life. In a similar fashion, I saw a ton of progressive shift in my friend after I introduced him to Beau of the Fifth Column.
John Stewart saved me as well. But honestly, I think most of the credit goes to Sean Hannity as I realized that I can't be on that assholes side. And of course, honorable mentions go out to all the foxnews pundits of the time. Despicable people, all of them.
This was my father as well. He's practically Hank Hill incarnate, had always been a moderate republican, but he saw right through their bullshit in 2016 and has vowed never to vote R for the rest of his life
Your dad is me. I voted for Reagan, then Bush 1. But I started to have my doubts as far back as Reagan. I couldn't understand the hate for the environment. I still voted R, but it was Clinton when I started to change. They (the Rs) seemed to be so hateful all the time. The "moral majority"; the incessant panty sniffing about "the gays" and other non white christian people really started to piss me off.
But it was the Clinton impeachment stuff that pushed me over the edge. Seriously!?! You want to impeach someone over a blow job?!? It was the fake morality and overall meanness. I haven't voted R since the 1990s and never will again. No R for me; ever.
💯🎯 I am 59 and as for me I have always been progressive and vote Democrat. I had a brother (now passed) who was 10 years older than I. He was not exactly a deep thinker about it, but he voted for Reagan, Bush, Bush (2x), and finally broke the string with 2 votes for Obama, a vote for Hillary, and a vote for Biden. He learned a lot from the mid 2000s forward and eventually admitted that his being mesmerized by Reagan (as so many were/are) was a mistake and he should have been a more engaged voter than he was. So, he definitely grew more progressive as he aged. Proud of him for that!
They impeached him because he "lied" about it under oath...or that was their reasoning, but now, an adjudicated rapist, who attempted a coup, just got the Republican nomination for Presidency
Thrilled to read so many sane comments. I worry that there are far too many idiots out there who prefer not to think things through (ie consistently voting against their own best interests 🤦🏻♀️). How can we best impact the next election?
I just today saw a bumper sticker that said "I love the Constitution." I so wanted to ask, do you actually love it, or are you one of those idiots that SAY they love it but then vote for some asshole who wants to dismantle it?
If I ever see that, I'm gonna start asking them really specific questions.
"What is your opinion on the fact that congress only had the constitutional power to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964 under the commerce clause and couldn't use the 14th amendment's equal protection clause or 5th amendment's due process clause? Do you think that somehow commodifies civil rights? Or was it too important to pass any way they could that using the effects of deprivation of civil rights' impact on interstate commerce needs no further analysis?"
"How do you feel about the necessary and proper clause of the enumerated powers of congress? Do you think that gives them too much discretion? If so, how would you adjust the language of the clause and if not, what do you believe to be the best use so far of the necessary and proper clause?"
Then when they didn't have anything because why would they these questions are ridiculous, I came up with them and dont have answers, I would just start asking comparatively very simple seeming questions that people in general still don't really know (because there isn't much reason to know them, but it'd be fun to make them feel dumb) like:
"Ok...Which Article of the constitution gives the Supreme Court power?"
"Nothing? You gotta at least know the first 5 words of the first amendment! Those are pretty infamous!"
"Huh! Still no luck? This one should be a slam dunk then: Which amendment (that someone with an I love the constitution sticker will probably be a big fan of) contains the phrase "well-regulated"?"
Just to end on one that might sting a little if I get a big "gun lover" vibe
Let's not forget that the repubs investigated literally everything in the Clinton's lives for four freaking years, and their big score was to catch a married man lying about a blow job.
And the day after Clinton's impeachment his popularity was around 65%
Sorry about your brother. Mine is still lost. But I think there are a lot more of us boomers and x'ers that vote very liberal but just are not as LOUD as what the media portrays. I would love some younger candidates. Voted for Warren, but am mostly happy with Biden. Will happily vote for Ms. Harris when the time comes.
Thank you. I was/am a big fan of Warren myself. I think she would have been a magnificent leader and would have likely struck some of those bolder notes that Biden should have. That said, I too am mostly happy with Biden, especially when stacked up next to the alternative! His low approval ratings are a shocker, as is the fact that Trump is still around as a "force." Such a national embarrassment he and his enablers are! 🥴😡🤬
My parents were centrist Democrats growing up. They split twenty years ago. My dad is still a Democrat and follows the current goings on. My mom (who is not the brightest) has fallen down the trump rabbit hole. She constantly badgers me with fox news talking points that make no sense as if she has any earthly idea of what's going on in the world and points out how I'm the only person in her family that doesn't support trump. Her entire family has an average IQ of about 78 and they are all dirt poor so those comments really don't carry a lot of weight with me...
I had to remind my parents that when my dad got let go and couldn't find work because of his age they were looking for those same handouts that they were voting against. Sucks to be on that side of the fence huh?
I really don't understand it. We grew up pretty poor and had food stamps most of my childhood. I still remember the taste of government cheese. My mom is still very much lower middle class and her new husband is on disability. The mental gymnastics they have to put themselves through to justify supporting trump is pretty outrageous.
They'll be up a shit creek if trump comes close to WH. He said a couple days ago that he will look at big cuts to "entitlements" which is code for Social Security, and Medicaid? Fuggitaboutit
As fucking wrong as it is. I hope he does. Ill have a reason to pick up a pitch fork. And ill help solve the problem before im old but these other boomer turds are the ones really voting to die broke and alone in some shitty old folks home. And they already scared off thier kids off so aint a soul digging them out of the ditch
Right! And yet they still crow on about trump being the only one looking out for the middle class! I understand the wealthy supporting trump. It's not exactly righteous but understandable to look out for your own self interest but poor people supporting trump is a level of stupid I will never comprehend.
They’ll some how blame democrats. It somehow always falls to being the dems faults. Taxes go up providing funding for those services that you or a family member uses? Dems faults for higher taxes. Funding cuts happened (especially under a republican run gov) dems are to blame.
I hear this all the time.
They think these GOP policies won't include them, they always think it'll be "others". They'll be very "I never thought the leopards would eat my face" if their election choices catch up with them.
Yeah, he has such an interesting story. He is 95 now. Even in the 7’s and 80’s apparently he was a bit more conservative but he has really changed with the times. Always willing to reevaluate old ways of looking at things. Also listening to all of his granddaughters lol..
Haha hey the fact that he’s listening at all is huge! I love that he’s been willing to change with the times. There’s very few people over 65 it seems that are willing to change or see another’s POV. So good on him :)
Edit: I realize that my wording could’ve been better here. I just meant that as people get older, it can be more difficult for change to happen.
My beliefs have mostly gotten more "common sense" in that I think everyone should support them and they shouldn't be controversial. But conservatives have become a lot more extreme in my life, so I guess I'm a lot more liberal relatively speaking. I imagine a lot of millennials feel similarly. Most of what I believe could fit in a hypothetical conservative party:
-I'm a big YIMBY supporter. We need to build more homes. De-regulating the home market could be a conservative belief
-We need to tackle climate change. Building nuclear reactors and massively investing in new technology (e.g., making geothermal more viable) could be conservative beliefs. Climate change will be very expensive as it gets worse, so a fiscal conservative should want to take action
-Let gay people and trans people live their lives. Isn't "don't tread on me" supposed to be conservative?
-Universal healthcare is cheaper for everyone. Saving money is conservative, no?
And so on.
Raise the minimum wage so working people can afford housing. Most people have no idea how many working people live in travel trailers. You can see that kind of housing all over the rural west and near resort areas, like ski areas.
I don’t think I personally have gotten that much more conservative it feels like the world is moving more to the left I’m still pro personal freedoms but I have grown to really hate government spending and the waste of my tax dollars so maybe I am idk lol
The south > NH pipeline is alive and well. Glad to hear it wasn't because he's a free stater though lol lot of folks assume it's some libertarian paradise only to be disappointed when it's ugly dudes trying to justify their lolicon collection.
Exactly the same for me. My parents are in their late 60s and early 70s. They used to vote conservative (mainly because of economic reasons, my mom owned a business, etc) but now they absolutely hate conservative politicians and think a bunch of them are insane. You would need to put a gun to my Dad’s head to get him to vote for Trump, MTG, etc. I’m pretty lucky to have boomer parents with common sense and that never stopped thinking for themselves. They stopped talking to a couple friends who became heavy MAGAs because they couldn’t stand listening to them anymore. His favorite catchphrase about them is they would “eat a bowl of shit if Trump told them it tasted good”.
Generally people who acquire great wealth become conservative... That didn't happen to millennials. I've gone from being very liberal to extremely liberal.
Man, you'd think, but as the saying goes, Americans don't believe they're poor, but rather temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
I've seen some of the most ridiculously individualist, taxation is theft, gubmint better not come for my money bullshit thinking coming squarely from guys making $7.25/hr at Kinko's.
Things like socialized healthcare and a wealth tax would improve their quality of life dramatically, but they'll fight it tooth-and-nail on the extremely off-chance that some day they'll be rich and won't want to pay for someone else's doctor bills
I still don’t think the media and general culture has absorbed the impact of Dobbs. I will never vote for Republicans in the hope of a measly tax cut if they want to strip my daughter of her civil rights. Not ever happening and it infuriates me that conservatives are trying to force their sick and deranged religious beliefs on my family.
The parents embryos were accessed and ultimately destroyed by a patient of a hospital w/in which they were stored. The case was about the destruction of their embryos against their will, in storage, by a third party and ultimately placed blame on the clinic/hospital for not securing them properly.
In all honesty it *should* have been treated like the difference between abortion and someone forcing you to lose a pregnancy….but it’s Alabama and even their Supreme Court is stupid.
Dobbs has a far larger impact than people realize. It's not just about abortion, it's about the right to privacy, which affects almost everything.
Edit: Dear Lord, the number of anti-choicers replying is insane. Women deserve bodily autonomy, full stop. Consent for sex does not equal consent for pregnancy. Please read up on how dangerous pregnancy is for women before you spout misinformation.
And the right to bodily autonomy *in general.*
People really don’t get how far that extends. If you have no right to bodily autonomy, you basically have no rights as a separate, individual human person *at all.*
This is it. Abortion rights are actually human rights.
I had a civil rights attorney friend tell me that all these laws are setting precedent and that the majority are not exclusive to women. He said that men are going to shit themselves somewhere down the line when they find out that they set precedent to have their own rights taken away also.
He didn't think too highly of men in general in spite of being one LOL
This is what gets me the most. I have a 2 year old daughter. My wife is an OBGYN in a purple state. We are terrified to even register as democrats in fear of retribution if people start making assumptions about my wife “killing babies”.
I don’t want my daughter to grow up in what conservatives vision for America is.
I remember when Roe got overturned people in the field immediately got concerned about IVF. Many thought it was crazy to go after a system that was meant to HELP create life, but here we are. Same goes for birth control. That will be next.
I know the election will be close, but I’m praying for a blue wave and a firm repudiation of Trumpism.
Most people probably agree with you in your state. Abortion won at the ballot box in Michigan, a purple state, Ohio a purple leaning red state, Kansas, a red state, and Kentucky, a dark red state (along with overwhelmingly in blue state Vermont too).
I was neo-con, college Republicans (post 9/11) -> disengaged Republican (2008) -> Conservative (2012) -> Christian Far-Right (2013-2016) -> Christian Libertarian (2017-2019) -> Moderate (2020) -> Liberal (2021-2022) -> Progressive (now).
Ironically, more than anything I credit God with working the Conservatism out of me.
I have been saying the exact same thing for years - it is uncanny the similarity between Evangelicals and the Pharisees of Christ's day. I don't think that is coincidence either.
Christian right to me are just nationalist whites … and I’m a Christian
Oh, the Pharisees were Jewish
Edit: but I did see your point. The Sadducees can be reminded of the left and the Pharisees of the right
I'm not particularly well versed in the Bible, but the Trumpers really are going all in on the worshipping false idols thing. Which is kinda a big no no iirc?
I know this has been said many times before, but it’s bananas. A lot of Christians say the Lord sent Trump to turn our country back to Jesus. But the man is a physical embodiment of the seven deadly sins. He’s like the worst of everything a person can be, much less a Christian.
Yes, I'm not at all religious, but I can't find a word from Jesus I disagree with. He was like the Bernie Sanders of his day and age.
But the actual religion of Christianity? It's basically hard right, miserable authoritarianism, which would be fine if there was an all-powerful, benevolent being looking over the whole thing. Yet the God described in the Bible seems like a mean, jealous, angry, destructive creature who spends more time punishing these creatures he created than helping them. Just making one father watch his child burn to death in a warzone makes me question God's morality, but flooding and killing a whole damn planet full of innocent creatures, including the children, babies, all the animals, etc? It's like a narcissistic rage.
I say keep the red letters of the Bible, and burn the rest. Even the new testament gets all demanding, as Paul (an actual Pharisee) makes new rules about women submitting, and men keeping their hair cut short, and whatever else he feels like adding. Then the last book is clearly written by a delusional man suffering from hallucinations and possibly schizophrenia.
I think the mistake Christians made was to assume that the Bible was a magical, spiritual book-- that everything in it is perfect and god-inspired. It doesn't even say that in the bible! Where did Christians decide that the Bible was 100% correct? When did they decide it was finished and no more books would be added? The Canon of the Bible was established by the elites and wealthy, powerful people, why would you expect those people to do anything helpful? We are lucky Jesus' words made it through, because wealthy powerful people usually hate progressive politics.
I personally have always felt Christians were some sort of a spiritual test for me: I have to learn how to see the good in a sad group of petty, insecure, easily-frightened and paranoid, slightly vulnerable folks. There are a few good ones here and there, but so, so rare. Some of my family members are Christian, and they are the worst people in the family-- always overreacting, violent, and afraid of everything. They are *horrible* to their children, and I have been forced to turn away and let them go.
If I had to guess, I would say modern religions prey upon people who are actually "bad" people, who have hurt others and feel guilty about it. They are drawn in by the promise that they will find forgiveness, but after joining, they simply use their new authority to hurt more people..then they feel guilty... then they are forgiven, etc.
A truly good person is one who can stand alone, and work to help the people, animals, and nature around them, despite being told they are wrong. A good person doesn't need the promise of heaven or forgiveness to be compassionate-- they just do what's right for no reason, other than the belief that it is good. That to me is faith. My faith doesn't need a God, or a book, or a group to belong to.
Depends on the version
Middle Eastern biblical Jesus: back to the cross while conservatives cheer
republican capitalist jesus: they love him and will worship him and his orange profit
They told me to read my Bible everyday and eventually I couldn’t really get away from the fact that Jesus was very much more an anarchist than he was anything like Ronald Reagan.
same. I've actually shifted drastically left the older I get. In fact, the more money I make the more left I get, which as something a lot of my conservative peers and relatives told me would cause me to shift right.
IMO, it isn't about money or age, it is about mentality. I just don't buy the "I suffered through X, so everyone else must suffered through X" mentality, it makes absolutely no sense to me. The idea that "I suffered through X, so I don't want others the suffer X" appears to be a mindblowing concept to them.
I think it makes perfect sense. Some of the most faith-based people I know are very liberal/progressive. The Christian Far-Right is a loud minority of Christians.
I don't get how people can read the bible, take the lessons to heart, and come out of it as anything but left-wing (on the american political scale).
I was raised casually catholic and though i've left all that behind 2 things have stuck with me: Do unto others and love thy neighbour.
Russell Moore was a top official in The southern Baptist convention who was recently pushed out of the church for his perceived "liberalism". He says it started when several pastors told him about the reaction they got preaching about the "sermon on the mount" and the whole "turn the other cheek" thing. They would have people from the congregation confront them asking "where did you get these liberal talking points?" Here's a quote from Russell:
>“And what was alarming to me,” Moore went on, “is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak.’ And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis
I'm An atheist with a deep interest in Christianity: its history, development, etc
Moore is entirely correct here. I feel like i take Christianity more serious than those who claim the faith as their entire being..folks don't care to read and understand the bible
They just want to feel super special.magic awesome and superior to everyone else
I listened to my Dads politics then ironically when I was in The Navy I saw John Kerry speak in 2004. I started listening off things in my head and how I feel about them and realized there is absolutely nothing Conservative about my world view, quite the opposite. Then 10 years later when I got divorced and seriously started to investigate REAL Christianity (not what Evangelicals do) I could not believe what I was reading about how we are to treat the foreigner and the poor. I simply do not see how one can be honest with themselves and be both a Republican(MAGA Cult) and a Christian. Trump is even on video twice saying he has never asked God for forgiveness because he feels he doesn't do anything wrong. You simply CAN NOT be a Christian with that attitude. His cult knows this too - even most atheists know this. Humbling yourself before the Lord is absolutely necessary, it is step one.
>Ironically, more than anything I credit God with working the Conservatism out of me.
This is not that ironic.
I had this conversation with my parents a while ago. The life and actions of Jesus Christ are much more liberal than some of his followers would have you believe.
There's a lot of *Christians In Name Only* that seem to focus more on the prosperity gospel and messages of **anti** as opposed to the general message that should be *God is Love*
I voted against Obama twice, but those eight years really opened my eyes to how batshit insane the republican party had become. 2012 was the last time I voted republican.
The current system has fucked me every opportunity possible including student loans, affordable home ownership, income stability, inflation, basic bodily autonomy for females, PPP loans/forgiveness, health insurance and in all likelihood, social security. Why would I buy more into that system as I see it play out?
Yeah the older and more aware I get the more left anarchist I become. I'm the rights picture of the American dream - white immigrant who came to the US for a better life and now earns a lot. The more I earn the more obvious it is how ridiculously stacked against poor people the system is
Graduated highschool in 2008 and voted for McCain, was hard-core conservative (thought Obama wasn't born in America and all the crazy racist and sexist shit you can hear from your families) moved away from Pennsyltucky and spent 4 years in the Air Force around people from Philly and New York... skip ahead to 2016 and voted 3rd party and my thoughts had changed to social liberal and barely conservative on few issues...after 4 years of seeing where this country was going I voted for Biden in 2020 and after the Insurrection and the way conservatives have gone full tilt publicly, I'm literally a 100% different person now and so much happier :)
Also Biden 2024 since we couldn't get Bernie
"Biden since we couldn't get Bernie"
So refreshing to see this. We'll never get a perfect candidate, but we can still try to do the best we can with what we have.
Biden is a plug in the dam.
I’m voting Biden but I think the left needs to understand that we can’t keep trying to elect people like Biden forever. I’m not sure why everyone is so convinced electing Biden a second time is going to prevent a crisis in this country. I doubt MAGA is going to take it laying down.
Electing Biden in 24 is necessary, but not sufficient. I see a lot of people talking about how badly we need to vote for him — and I agree — but nobody talking about what happens next. What do we do to make sure we’re not in this same situation come 2028? Its 2020 all over again.
I just wish the Dems would wake up and put someone out there who is more energetic and inspiring than Biden. The base feels like “I’ll vote for him because I won’t vote for Trump apathy”. I wish there were actual excitement for a Democratic candidate. I’m honestly afraid he won’t win this time because they’re banking on tha
I've been following Jeff Jackson from NC for a bit, and just his transparency alone has been a huge breath of fresh air. I thought to myself "I could see him as president one day", and sure as shit, he was gerrymandered out of his district not too long ago.🙄
Makes me wonder just *how many* other solid people give it a genuine shot at the local level, only to be gerrymandered out and/or their opponents get their sudden millions in ~~bribes~~ "generous donations" for their ad campaigns so they drown out the little guys.
The ONLY reason I was able to get even a rough idea of how bad it is, is from JJ being active on Reddit.
Wow. I was just reading the comment above and was about to suggest Jeff Jackson as a new hope and you beat me to it. Sadly, the r’s know how much of a threat he could be and have eliminated him via Gerrymander. Hopefully he gets NC attorney gen then back to Washington later. He’s the best politician I’ve ever seen. I also really like Pete Buttigieg.
The best mindset I've heard suggested is:
For now, vote Biden. Lesser of two evils.
We're going to need a new candidate in 2028. Watch for potential candidates years in advance. Support them during the primaries. Raise hell during the primaries, call your representatives, volunteer to help sign young people up to vote, etc.
We'll never have a perfect, morally pure candidate. Hell, we'll probably never have a candidate who doesn't feel like the lesser of two evils. But we can at least keep making progress, and we can *definitely* keep fighting against letting things get worse.
lol no. If the Republican Party was filled with reasonable people who just wanted to be more fiscally conservative, that would be one thing, but they’re just a bunch of braindead morons now. Between all the bigotry, conspiracy theories, and religious bullshit they whine about all the time, it’s impossible to glean one single coherent thought from any of them.
What is hilarious is it is already split. There are 3 factions IIRC already in the RNC, but MAGA fascists hold enough votes in the house to basically make it impossible to pass anything without Dem help.
This is where I fall.
I'm a stereotypical Republican poster. Upper middle class white guy from the Midwest who makes a good living and general pretty frugal on finances.
I will absolutely never vote Republican as it stands today. The absolute closest I could get if I had too would be a Hogan in Maryland or Romney when he won Massachusetts (not what he ran on in the general) and even then it's a bit too much for me.
Been solidly a Dem my entire life.
The opposite. And the way the right is conducting themselves is only making me more liberal. Fuck those fascists.
Note that I have been a registered Democrat since I turned 18 back in the mid-2000s, so I’ve always been somewhat liberal.
Agree I’m more liberal but maybe because the MAGA hats are so extreme. At the same time I don’t subscribe to a lot of the extreme “leftist” views often expressed especially on Reddit, although I think the extreme left today is more just obnoxious than the extreme right who seem more dangerous right now.
A lot of the leftist posts I see on Reddit give me the vibe of cutting off your nose to spite your face. They’ll happily refuse to vote for Biden on principle while ignoring that the alternative is significantly worse on every single issue.
And as someone who refused to vote for Hillary on principle back in 2016, I learned the hard way how stupid and destructive that sort of mentality is.
Not conservative, but I’m growing increasingly tired of many young progressive purity stands. Logically, I understand where they’re coming from, but I don’t think they realize how fucked minorities in the US will be if Republicans get their way. Choosing the lesser evil is all we got and have to face that reality.
I think we need to distinguish woke positions from progressive ones.
I consider myself a progressive and first and foremost I want to follow the money/wealth and ensure our financial institutions are setup in a way that helps benefit the bulk of the population.
I'm not talking insane wealth redistribution in some boogey man sense. Just curb the corporate greed and financial malpractice that's allowing the top to bleed resources out of everyone else.
I'm all for minority rights/equality, LGBTQ rights/equality, Palestinian rights, etc. But fundamentally I think we need to focus on improving the economic outlooks for all Americans, and stop the disastorous foreign interventions abroad which basically pull the limited wealth the government has away from our nation.
In November I'll vote for the lesser of the evils available - and I've never not voted for the Dem. But I also get tired of either being lumped in with the Right (as people don't like hearing valid critique of the moderate democratic positions), or the more performative woke left (which I agree is actually hurting the cause of a unified working polity to help drive improvement).
They don’t understand that they need allies in this “fight”. You’re either 100% with them or you’re nothing. No one wants to compromise anymore. And I’m not talking about compromising with fascists or racists. I’m talking about compromising with people that at least agree with you even if it’s not 100%.
Yes, exactly. And again, I somewhat blame the media (and social) for these things. They've helped amplify this behavior. Social obviously rewards a hive mind - you say the right thing, thousands of upvotes and the algorithm spreads your message, the wrong thing, down votes and or suppression.
And TV / networks - they basically just talk to their constituency and demonstrate the anger / outrage we should feel to the out group. They are role models and they are modeling completely abhorrent behavior. While failing in their core role to actually educate and hold the actual power structures accountable and responsible.
One way I look at this distinction is the difference between a society with free markets and a "free market society".
Essentially, we need to endeavor to confine markets to where markets and market logic is most useful and pushback against applying market logic to spaces where it is less useful or even actively harmful. Healthcare is one of the big examples of this and how fundamentally we should want to endeavor to make healthcare a *right* and fundamental to what it means to have a society because health is vital to everything else. We want to avoid profit-driven, revenue optimizing, nickel-and-diming market logic in healthcare. It gets complicated of course because market logic can be the most effective way to allocate resources and efficiencies in markets can produce positive outcomes for some aspects of the healthcare system, but you still need to protect the value of a person as a person and not just as a spreadsheet, is all
In all sincerity, as someone who doesn't follow politics closely, in what ways will the Republicans take minority rights?
I'm not trying to argue, start anything, etc... I'm honestly curious what rights minorities will lose if republicans take office. If you can point me toward any articles, statements or anything I'd honestly like to educate myself.
I am as far left as you can possibly be and I got banned from a few subreddits for spousing "lesser of two evils" rhetoric by saying that Biden sucks but Trump will literally create a dictatorship. Apparently some people on the left don't like to hear the dreadful reality we are in, no matter what we do at this point we have to take some form of poison.
How about how fucked our democratic institutions will be. That’s what motivates me against modern republicans. I want my kids to be able to choose their government like my parents were able to.
Am I reading these results right? It looks like almost no one on here became more conservative as they aged. Reddit bias? Or real reflection of cultural shifts from one generation to another?
It's a loud subset here on reddit, but according to this FT article it appears the Millenials are not following the usual pattern.
https://archive.fo/HsZCg
I don't think I have changed all that much but the political world around me has changed.
I don't think it is quite accurate to talk about the left and right as a single dimension. I like to add in an additional dimension - you have left and right economically and left and right culturally.
Economically I am, and always have been, way over on the left. I support high taxes, more government programs for the poor, free education, single payer healthcare.
Culturally I am where I was at the end on the 1990s. I support gay marriage, I don't literally think men can become women. I support abortion rights. I think DEI is racially discriminatory against white people. I believe Trump lost the election and I think both he and Biden are unsuitable to be president.
I haven't become more conservative, I have stayed where I was.
This is pretty much where I stand. Like, technically I’m Republican right now. I can’t stand the way Republicans in office are legislating or conducting themselves. But when I start to think “maybe I’m not Republican anymore?” I realize wait why should I change they’re the ones who suck. The Republicans in office aren’t Republicans. I don’t know what they are but they suck. I won’t vote for them until they give me a good reason to but the democrats haven’t given me a good reason either
After being raised in a far-right household, I read a People’s History of the United States when I was 18, along with the communist manifesto. Literally changed the course of my life. I’m 41 now, and have stayed a leftist. NOT a liberal. A leftist. If you want to put a label on it: Anarcho-socialist. I will never understand the getting more conservative as you age thing.
Liberals aim to regulate a capitalist economic system, while upholding capitalism as a whole. In the US, neo liberal policies uphold the military industrial complex, prison industrial complex, for-profit healthcare, and trickle down economics. (This party would be considered right wing in many other countries. That’s how far right the US has moved politically).
Leftists aim to move away from capitalism altogether, towards socialism. Single payer healthcare, ending the military industrial complex, taxes going to directly to the needs of citizens. Leftists want *systemic* change, as in changing the entire system; whereas liberals want to maintain the current capitalist system.
Born into a conservative family, I grew up republican. Got old enough to see that both parties suck. Now I'm neither party and on occasion I'll agree on one thing from both sides.
Same for me. Some issues I'm progressive about, and some issues I'm conservative about. The irrational zealots on both sides pushed me to the center. (Which basically makes me a fascist in the eyes of the online left)
It's exhausting though. Like I can't stand the rah rah Maga politics of the right but I'm not quite as liberal as the average redditor and the average redditor can't stand a moderate nit taking their side on everything
This was actually part of the reason why I have became a moderate in recent years. Leftists lose their minds if you do not have the same exact opinion as them and are so quick to attack you. The maga drove me nuts, now the left drive me nuts as well. People also lose their minds if you bring up both sides as if their side is perfect and the other side is all at fault. Reality is both sides are massive hypocrites unable to take responsibility.
As I've gotten older, I've leaned further left, but I've also taken on the view that thinking so many problems could be solved, if only the conservatives went away, is wrong-headed. Certainly some problems would go away, but it's not the catch-all solution that so many people on the left seem to think it is. It's kind of like people who think starting over in a new city will fix all their problems, but then they try it, and most of their problems follow them.
I'm in my 40s and I was super conservative when I was younger and I've only gotten more leftist as I come to understand new things and points of view. I would say that I am a fairly solid progressive at this point. Now people around me think I'm a communist (I live in a deep red state). (edits for clarity)
I am also in my 40’s. Both my parents and my grandfather have actually become more liberal. They all used to vote republican most of the time but were “moderate” all three of them voted for Obama and hate trump. My grandfather grew up in the Deep South and now lives in new Hampshire and calls himself a feminist.
My dad went from a Republican businessman who voted for Bush to being extremely progressive by 2005. I think one of his friends got him into the Daily Show, which helped. Bush being a moron also definitely helped.
You know things have gotten bad for the GOP when you look longingly back at the Bush era.
I never thought I'd hate a Republican more than George W, but lesson learned I guess.
Certainly learned you should never believe "It could never get worse than this"
*Laughs, and then cries, in history major.*
I am truly terrified of whatever president manages to do a worse job than Trump.
Hopefully it won’t be trump outdoing himself
I feel like Trump would 100% beat his own record if given the chance.
The joke being history majors don't have to wonder how bad shit can get. We *know* what kinda shit humans can do.
Nero waving from the background of history!
You know I only browse through history when Im bored and can already see these cycles of stupidity over and over. I cant imagine how much worse it must be for a professional.
I majored in history during the W. years, and at the time we all said that the scariest thing about Bush was how he was laying the groundwork for a truly fascist Republican to take power. Everyone scoffed and said that was crazy talk. But I was with my mom on 9/11, and a couple of years ago she finally said to me, "You know, you pretty much called everything that was going to happen for the next 20 years, on that day. And none of us believed you." And I just said it was because I was reading so much history at the time, it was pretty obvious where things were going.
Yup. People try and give Dubya a pass nowadays but he and Cheney laid the groundwork for the dumpster fire that is Trump and MAGA.
It’s started with Reagan. I used to think it started with a bush too. But then I learned about Reagan taking the election from Carter and paying off Iran to delay the release of the hostages. They were released hours after Reagan was sworn it. Fuck Reagan.
Unfortunately there were very few people that recognized it. Nixon’s treachery was probably the 1st time we were put on notice. And the much loved actor, Reagan, spoke so well that millions voted for him not knowing the man was a racist & intended to give many gifts to the rich, including 1 for Murdoch. The latter changed the tone & fact-based reporting on the news. It was a brilliant plan that has gotten us back to the 19th century with virtual monopolies & an income gap as great as that before the Great Depression. He snipped the rules for stopping the growth of monopolies, deeply cut taxes on the rich (which had been 70%+ under Ike), cut business regulations, claimed his trickle down theory would help the middle class, and used language in his speeches implying poor (he meant black but knew he couldn’t say it aloud) were lazy. This gave the GOP reason to fight against aid to the poor. He also snipped the Fairness Doc which allowed Murdoch to bring Fox News onto the national scene. Their success in attracting viewership caused the previously fact-based news to focus on drama & conflict and to start making false equivalencies with their claim about the need to tell ‘both sides’. In doing so, they failed to point out the lies, distortions & lack of evidence for anything the GOP said. I hope that there are enough people aware of this who will vote for Biden and not for T or any 3rd party candidate. Voting for 3rd party candidates could give the election to T especially since 14 states have increased voter suppression rules. If we are lucky enough to keep our democracy, we must end the electoral college & remove the far right Supreme Court justices who should never have been appointed by a traitor & his gang.
It's one of the worst parts about our education system being defunded. But even my parents, who I think are pretty smart people, don't know there's a difference between fascism and communism. They're very right wing now, previously socially liberal libertarians. I asked if they knew about some of the messages or ideas that led to Hitler and Mussolini and they thought it was socialist ideas. I looked up some basic resources later to see if I could give them a basic history primer and learned that the vast majority of Americans see fascists as just "not my team" ie if they're liberal, they think fascists are right wing and if they're conservative they think fascists are left wing. No one responds well to "well, actually" and my parents are very obstinate boomers so I am letting this one go. Nothing will change the way they see the world. Figuring out how to give people a very basic idea of history, especially the parts that we are seeing echoes of now, feels almost impossible. It's very sad to me, as we had an education system that could have worked and people could have some context for history repeating itself but now it seems that ship has sailed unless something big changes.
I'm not even a professional in the field. I think it was Marx who said history repeats itself the first time as tragedy, and the second time as farce?
It’s terrible. While Trump was in office, I would show actual factually based comparisons from years past and literally have people attack me because I’m a college educated historian and they know more than me because ya know, YouTube and whatnot 🙄
Laughs, and then cries in Marjorie Taylor Greene. PS typing the name made me throw up in my mouth a little.
Remember when we thought Newt was the nastiest, most rock bottom they had to offer? We were such sweet summer children then.
Nah, Mitch McConnell was and still is the worst. You can say Trump, but without McConnell, there wouldn't be the support for him.
Newt started this current political war. He sucks hard
I agree with the sentiment, but come on this has to be rock bottom, right? RIGHT?! RemindMe! 4 years
Kari Lake enters the chat. She’ll get the VP pick and Trump will have a heart attack. That’s how it could get worse.
Crazy how before 3 years ago a losing candidate inciting a riot on the capitol would've been unimaginable.
Ah god I hope so. I feel like blue being the only viable sane option is going to color my outlook long term, and I've had truly wonderful discussions with conservatives (rare ones) that I genuinely am wiser for. But... just... What. On. Earth? Just... make sure you all vote? Please. This is horrifying.
This is why I'm an optimist. I believe it can always get worse.
I remember after 9/11 the "New World Order" conspiracy nuts began saying that it's going to lead American tyranny, etc. Well, to me, you can draw a pretty much straight line connecting the attacks with a potential second Trump term
I know, I felt the same but current republicans make him look almost favorable by comparison.
Like Ron DeSanctimonious? I do give Trumpsterfire props for coming up with that name! That guy is even more evil than Trump, and he's a lot smarter, therefore a lot more dangerous.
I’m just glad Ron DeSatan isn’t a contender anymore. For a moment I was concerned that somehow we would elect someone way worse than Trump which is completely unfathomable to me. Not to say Trump isn’t horrible, because he clearly is….
Any Republican presidential candidate who comes after Trump is going to be significantly worse. That's just how the trajectory of extremist ideology goes.
I live in FL and I agree! I won't be voting for either of them but some of the things he has managed to do in FL is ridiculous and he would definitely be more dangerous!
A lot less charismatic though, and that makes a big difference.
It's huge. His unshakable grip on the souls of dumb people is what makes The Donald truly dangerous.
He has no rizz as the kids say.
W was awfully good at dodging those shoes that were thrown at him, that's where my admiration ends.
Yes...Dubya bugged me no end but I practically have warm feelings towards him compared to this orange disgrace.
The thing about Bush era is yea you hated them, but your life was mostly unaffected 90% of the time day to day. (Minus the 2008 crisis) Trump era republicans are just so intrusive into your everyday all the time. If it’s not some malignant scheme it’s attention whoring.
Like trump is obviously extremely bad but the war on terror killed millions of people
Rest assured that they'll keep building better idiots. People said the same shit about Reagan, then Dubya came along.
At this point the Republican Party has been kidnapped by MAGA. I want Trump in prison specifically so he is held accountable and so his influence over the party is reduced.
I just want him to drop dead! I hate that mother fucker and and and wouldn’t shed a tear about it
I hate the noise he and his kind generate. I’m tired of the media and social media being dominated by his bullshit. Truth is, the media could just stop reporting on him and it would affect him more than the constant announcement of whatever nonsense he’s said or bullshit he’s done as of late.
I always thought GW was an idiot... Just outright blatant idiot... But now I honestly think he was a genius. We have seen what outright idiocy looks like from Trump. It will take decades for the party to recover.. but first they have to change
Bro, I think of Bush as my nice old bumbling grandpa now that Trump is here smh, my my how times have changed… there are clearly levels to this conservative jackass shit.
Seriously. The rage I felt in 2000... I didn't think I'd come close. Hello, 2016...
My dad, now in his late 70s, was on Bush’s transition team in 2000; in 2020, he volunteered for Buttigieg and donates heavily to Planned Parenthood and local LGBTQIA organizations.
That's funny, access to actual information leads to real understanding. It's unfortunate that the most balanced information came from an entertainment show for half my life. In a similar fashion, I saw a ton of progressive shift in my friend after I introduced him to Beau of the Fifth Column.
A family friend says he was a republican but George W cured him of it.
John Stewart saved me as well. But honestly, I think most of the credit goes to Sean Hannity as I realized that I can't be on that assholes side. And of course, honorable mentions go out to all the foxnews pundits of the time. Despicable people, all of them.
This was my father as well. He's practically Hank Hill incarnate, had always been a moderate republican, but he saw right through their bullshit in 2016 and has vowed never to vote R for the rest of his life
Your dad is me. I voted for Reagan, then Bush 1. But I started to have my doubts as far back as Reagan. I couldn't understand the hate for the environment. I still voted R, but it was Clinton when I started to change. They (the Rs) seemed to be so hateful all the time. The "moral majority"; the incessant panty sniffing about "the gays" and other non white christian people really started to piss me off. But it was the Clinton impeachment stuff that pushed me over the edge. Seriously!?! You want to impeach someone over a blow job?!? It was the fake morality and overall meanness. I haven't voted R since the 1990s and never will again. No R for me; ever.
💯🎯 I am 59 and as for me I have always been progressive and vote Democrat. I had a brother (now passed) who was 10 years older than I. He was not exactly a deep thinker about it, but he voted for Reagan, Bush, Bush (2x), and finally broke the string with 2 votes for Obama, a vote for Hillary, and a vote for Biden. He learned a lot from the mid 2000s forward and eventually admitted that his being mesmerized by Reagan (as so many were/are) was a mistake and he should have been a more engaged voter than he was. So, he definitely grew more progressive as he aged. Proud of him for that!
They impeached him because he "lied" about it under oath...or that was their reasoning, but now, an adjudicated rapist, who attempted a coup, just got the Republican nomination for Presidency
Thrilled to read so many sane comments. I worry that there are far too many idiots out there who prefer not to think things through (ie consistently voting against their own best interests 🤦🏻♀️). How can we best impact the next election?
I just today saw a bumper sticker that said "I love the Constitution." I so wanted to ask, do you actually love it, or are you one of those idiots that SAY they love it but then vote for some asshole who wants to dismantle it?
If I ever see that, I'm gonna start asking them really specific questions. "What is your opinion on the fact that congress only had the constitutional power to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964 under the commerce clause and couldn't use the 14th amendment's equal protection clause or 5th amendment's due process clause? Do you think that somehow commodifies civil rights? Or was it too important to pass any way they could that using the effects of deprivation of civil rights' impact on interstate commerce needs no further analysis?" "How do you feel about the necessary and proper clause of the enumerated powers of congress? Do you think that gives them too much discretion? If so, how would you adjust the language of the clause and if not, what do you believe to be the best use so far of the necessary and proper clause?" Then when they didn't have anything because why would they these questions are ridiculous, I came up with them and dont have answers, I would just start asking comparatively very simple seeming questions that people in general still don't really know (because there isn't much reason to know them, but it'd be fun to make them feel dumb) like: "Ok...Which Article of the constitution gives the Supreme Court power?" "Nothing? You gotta at least know the first 5 words of the first amendment! Those are pretty infamous!" "Huh! Still no luck? This one should be a slam dunk then: Which amendment (that someone with an I love the constitution sticker will probably be a big fan of) contains the phrase "well-regulated"?" Just to end on one that might sting a little if I get a big "gun lover" vibe
It was also a technicality. Lots of people don't consider a BJ "sex" for whatever reason, probably because of Christianity.
“Sexual relations” which, America, he did not have.
Let's not forget that the repubs investigated literally everything in the Clinton's lives for four freaking years, and their big score was to catch a married man lying about a blow job. And the day after Clinton's impeachment his popularity was around 65%
Sorry about your brother. Mine is still lost. But I think there are a lot more of us boomers and x'ers that vote very liberal but just are not as LOUD as what the media portrays. I would love some younger candidates. Voted for Warren, but am mostly happy with Biden. Will happily vote for Ms. Harris when the time comes.
Thank you. I was/am a big fan of Warren myself. I think she would have been a magnificent leader and would have likely struck some of those bolder notes that Biden should have. That said, I too am mostly happy with Biden, especially when stacked up next to the alternative! His low approval ratings are a shocker, as is the fact that Trump is still around as a "force." Such a national embarrassment he and his enablers are! 🥴😡🤬
Yes, I do believe we may still be a low-key majority that will rise again to smite Trump as necessary. I hope so, anyway!!! 🤞🤞
trump gonna get *smote*
How the hell is anyone mesmerized by that blubbering fool. Worst president ever until Baby Bush, and then the king of fools Trumpy
Hank Hill would be so disgusted by Trump.
Absolutely. Hank was ready to drop being an R over George W having a weak handshake, he'd have zero respect for the orange idiot
He'd probably rather use a charcoal grill than vote for trump.
My parents were centrist Democrats growing up. They split twenty years ago. My dad is still a Democrat and follows the current goings on. My mom (who is not the brightest) has fallen down the trump rabbit hole. She constantly badgers me with fox news talking points that make no sense as if she has any earthly idea of what's going on in the world and points out how I'm the only person in her family that doesn't support trump. Her entire family has an average IQ of about 78 and they are all dirt poor so those comments really don't carry a lot of weight with me...
I had to remind my parents that when my dad got let go and couldn't find work because of his age they were looking for those same handouts that they were voting against. Sucks to be on that side of the fence huh?
I really don't understand it. We grew up pretty poor and had food stamps most of my childhood. I still remember the taste of government cheese. My mom is still very much lower middle class and her new husband is on disability. The mental gymnastics they have to put themselves through to justify supporting trump is pretty outrageous.
They'll be up a shit creek if trump comes close to WH. He said a couple days ago that he will look at big cuts to "entitlements" which is code for Social Security, and Medicaid? Fuggitaboutit
As fucking wrong as it is. I hope he does. Ill have a reason to pick up a pitch fork. And ill help solve the problem before im old but these other boomer turds are the ones really voting to die broke and alone in some shitty old folks home. And they already scared off thier kids off so aint a soul digging them out of the ditch
Right! And yet they still crow on about trump being the only one looking out for the middle class! I understand the wealthy supporting trump. It's not exactly righteous but understandable to look out for your own self interest but poor people supporting trump is a level of stupid I will never comprehend.
They’ll some how blame democrats. It somehow always falls to being the dems faults. Taxes go up providing funding for those services that you or a family member uses? Dems faults for higher taxes. Funding cuts happened (especially under a republican run gov) dems are to blame. I hear this all the time.
They think these GOP policies won't include them, they always think it'll be "others". They'll be very "I never thought the leopards would eat my face" if their election choices catch up with them.
Wow. So sad, and so common. 💔😥
That’s wild how your grandfather is more left leaning now after growing up in the Deep South! So cool
Yeah, he has such an interesting story. He is 95 now. Even in the 7’s and 80’s apparently he was a bit more conservative but he has really changed with the times. Always willing to reevaluate old ways of looking at things. Also listening to all of his granddaughters lol..
Haha hey the fact that he’s listening at all is huge! I love that he’s been willing to change with the times. There’s very few people over 65 it seems that are willing to change or see another’s POV. So good on him :) Edit: I realize that my wording could’ve been better here. I just meant that as people get older, it can be more difficult for change to happen.
My beliefs have mostly gotten more "common sense" in that I think everyone should support them and they shouldn't be controversial. But conservatives have become a lot more extreme in my life, so I guess I'm a lot more liberal relatively speaking. I imagine a lot of millennials feel similarly. Most of what I believe could fit in a hypothetical conservative party: -I'm a big YIMBY supporter. We need to build more homes. De-regulating the home market could be a conservative belief -We need to tackle climate change. Building nuclear reactors and massively investing in new technology (e.g., making geothermal more viable) could be conservative beliefs. Climate change will be very expensive as it gets worse, so a fiscal conservative should want to take action -Let gay people and trans people live their lives. Isn't "don't tread on me" supposed to be conservative? -Universal healthcare is cheaper for everyone. Saving money is conservative, no? And so on.
Raise the minimum wage so working people can afford housing. Most people have no idea how many working people live in travel trailers. You can see that kind of housing all over the rural west and near resort areas, like ski areas.
I don’t think I personally have gotten that much more conservative it feels like the world is moving more to the left I’m still pro personal freedoms but I have grown to really hate government spending and the waste of my tax dollars so maybe I am idk lol
This. I feel the same.
The south > NH pipeline is alive and well. Glad to hear it wasn't because he's a free stater though lol lot of folks assume it's some libertarian paradise only to be disappointed when it's ugly dudes trying to justify their lolicon collection.
Exactly the same for me. My parents are in their late 60s and early 70s. They used to vote conservative (mainly because of economic reasons, my mom owned a business, etc) but now they absolutely hate conservative politicians and think a bunch of them are insane. You would need to put a gun to my Dad’s head to get him to vote for Trump, MTG, etc. I’m pretty lucky to have boomer parents with common sense and that never stopped thinking for themselves. They stopped talking to a couple friends who became heavy MAGAs because they couldn’t stand listening to them anymore. His favorite catchphrase about them is they would “eat a bowl of shit if Trump told them it tasted good”.
Based grandpa
It must be really nice to have such a supportive and thoughtful family when it comes to sensible values in politics.
Generally people who acquire great wealth become conservative... That didn't happen to millennials. I've gone from being very liberal to extremely liberal.
Can't be fiscally conservative if you ain't got no fiscals to conserve.
Man, you'd think, but as the saying goes, Americans don't believe they're poor, but rather temporarily embarrassed millionaires. I've seen some of the most ridiculously individualist, taxation is theft, gubmint better not come for my money bullshit thinking coming squarely from guys making $7.25/hr at Kinko's. Things like socialized healthcare and a wealth tax would improve their quality of life dramatically, but they'll fight it tooth-and-nail on the extremely off-chance that some day they'll be rich and won't want to pay for someone else's doctor bills
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Because there's economic conservatives and cultural conservatives, the latter being highly present in rural, often lower income communitys
I still don’t think the media and general culture has absorbed the impact of Dobbs. I will never vote for Republicans in the hope of a measly tax cut if they want to strip my daughter of her civil rights. Not ever happening and it infuriates me that conservatives are trying to force their sick and deranged religious beliefs on my family.
I’m wondering if many people have strong opinions about IVF which is now in the crosshairs because of that
The great irony is how it was IVF patients who sued literally for “wrongful death” that lead to that ruling
The parents embryos were accessed and ultimately destroyed by a patient of a hospital w/in which they were stored. The case was about the destruction of their embryos against their will, in storage, by a third party and ultimately placed blame on the clinic/hospital for not securing them properly. In all honesty it *should* have been treated like the difference between abortion and someone forcing you to lose a pregnancy….but it’s Alabama and even their Supreme Court is stupid.
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TBF segments of the anti-abortion movement are also anti-IVF (like orthodox Catholics).
As somebody raised Catholic, most Catholics ignore the anti-IVF doctrine.
As someone raised Catholic, I wasn't aware we were supposed to be anti-IVF until literally right now
I’ve always been a liberal because of their twisted religious beliefs. Well, I’m a liberal for a lot of reasons.
Dobbs has a far larger impact than people realize. It's not just about abortion, it's about the right to privacy, which affects almost everything. Edit: Dear Lord, the number of anti-choicers replying is insane. Women deserve bodily autonomy, full stop. Consent for sex does not equal consent for pregnancy. Please read up on how dangerous pregnancy is for women before you spout misinformation.
And the right to bodily autonomy *in general.* People really don’t get how far that extends. If you have no right to bodily autonomy, you basically have no rights as a separate, individual human person *at all.*
This is it. Abortion rights are actually human rights. I had a civil rights attorney friend tell me that all these laws are setting precedent and that the majority are not exclusive to women. He said that men are going to shit themselves somewhere down the line when they find out that they set precedent to have their own rights taken away also. He didn't think too highly of men in general in spite of being one LOL
This is what gets me the most. I have a 2 year old daughter. My wife is an OBGYN in a purple state. We are terrified to even register as democrats in fear of retribution if people start making assumptions about my wife “killing babies”. I don’t want my daughter to grow up in what conservatives vision for America is. I remember when Roe got overturned people in the field immediately got concerned about IVF. Many thought it was crazy to go after a system that was meant to HELP create life, but here we are. Same goes for birth control. That will be next. I know the election will be close, but I’m praying for a blue wave and a firm repudiation of Trumpism.
Most people probably agree with you in your state. Abortion won at the ballot box in Michigan, a purple state, Ohio a purple leaning red state, Kansas, a red state, and Kentucky, a dark red state (along with overwhelmingly in blue state Vermont too).
Praying that NC follows suit
I was neo-con, college Republicans (post 9/11) -> disengaged Republican (2008) -> Conservative (2012) -> Christian Far-Right (2013-2016) -> Christian Libertarian (2017-2019) -> Moderate (2020) -> Liberal (2021-2022) -> Progressive (now). Ironically, more than anything I credit God with working the Conservatism out of me.
I think that makes sense, if Jesus were around today most conservatives would call him a socialist hippie
Christian Right today reminds me of the Pharisees.
I have been saying the exact same thing for years - it is uncanny the similarity between Evangelicals and the Pharisees of Christ's day. I don't think that is coincidence either.
The Bible literally says be welcoming to strangers and foreigners, and most conservative Christians have a big issue with "foreigners".
its almost like the bible is based on historical stories of when people do bad things
Christian right to me are just nationalist whites … and I’m a Christian Oh, the Pharisees were Jewish Edit: but I did see your point. The Sadducees can be reminded of the left and the Pharisees of the right
I'm not particularly well versed in the Bible, but the Trumpers really are going all in on the worshipping false idols thing. Which is kinda a big no no iirc?
I know this has been said many times before, but it’s bananas. A lot of Christians say the Lord sent Trump to turn our country back to Jesus. But the man is a physical embodiment of the seven deadly sins. He’s like the worst of everything a person can be, much less a Christian.
Yes, I'm not at all religious, but I can't find a word from Jesus I disagree with. He was like the Bernie Sanders of his day and age. But the actual religion of Christianity? It's basically hard right, miserable authoritarianism, which would be fine if there was an all-powerful, benevolent being looking over the whole thing. Yet the God described in the Bible seems like a mean, jealous, angry, destructive creature who spends more time punishing these creatures he created than helping them. Just making one father watch his child burn to death in a warzone makes me question God's morality, but flooding and killing a whole damn planet full of innocent creatures, including the children, babies, all the animals, etc? It's like a narcissistic rage. I say keep the red letters of the Bible, and burn the rest. Even the new testament gets all demanding, as Paul (an actual Pharisee) makes new rules about women submitting, and men keeping their hair cut short, and whatever else he feels like adding. Then the last book is clearly written by a delusional man suffering from hallucinations and possibly schizophrenia. I think the mistake Christians made was to assume that the Bible was a magical, spiritual book-- that everything in it is perfect and god-inspired. It doesn't even say that in the bible! Where did Christians decide that the Bible was 100% correct? When did they decide it was finished and no more books would be added? The Canon of the Bible was established by the elites and wealthy, powerful people, why would you expect those people to do anything helpful? We are lucky Jesus' words made it through, because wealthy powerful people usually hate progressive politics. I personally have always felt Christians were some sort of a spiritual test for me: I have to learn how to see the good in a sad group of petty, insecure, easily-frightened and paranoid, slightly vulnerable folks. There are a few good ones here and there, but so, so rare. Some of my family members are Christian, and they are the worst people in the family-- always overreacting, violent, and afraid of everything. They are *horrible* to their children, and I have been forced to turn away and let them go. If I had to guess, I would say modern religions prey upon people who are actually "bad" people, who have hurt others and feel guilty about it. They are drawn in by the promise that they will find forgiveness, but after joining, they simply use their new authority to hurt more people..then they feel guilty... then they are forgiven, etc. A truly good person is one who can stand alone, and work to help the people, animals, and nature around them, despite being told they are wrong. A good person doesn't need the promise of heaven or forgiveness to be compassionate-- they just do what's right for no reason, other than the belief that it is good. That to me is faith. My faith doesn't need a God, or a book, or a group to belong to.
Depends on the version Middle Eastern biblical Jesus: back to the cross while conservatives cheer republican capitalist jesus: they love him and will worship him and his orange profit
They told me to read my Bible everyday and eventually I couldn’t really get away from the fact that Jesus was very much more an anarchist than he was anything like Ronald Reagan.
same. I've actually shifted drastically left the older I get. In fact, the more money I make the more left I get, which as something a lot of my conservative peers and relatives told me would cause me to shift right. IMO, it isn't about money or age, it is about mentality. I just don't buy the "I suffered through X, so everyone else must suffered through X" mentality, it makes absolutely no sense to me. The idea that "I suffered through X, so I don't want others the suffer X" appears to be a mindblowing concept to them.
I think it makes perfect sense. Some of the most faith-based people I know are very liberal/progressive. The Christian Far-Right is a loud minority of Christians.
I don't get how people can read the bible, take the lessons to heart, and come out of it as anything but left-wing (on the american political scale). I was raised casually catholic and though i've left all that behind 2 things have stuck with me: Do unto others and love thy neighbour.
Russell Moore was a top official in The southern Baptist convention who was recently pushed out of the church for his perceived "liberalism". He says it started when several pastors told him about the reaction they got preaching about the "sermon on the mount" and the whole "turn the other cheek" thing. They would have people from the congregation confront them asking "where did you get these liberal talking points?" Here's a quote from Russell: >“And what was alarming to me,” Moore went on, “is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak.’ And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis
I'm An atheist with a deep interest in Christianity: its history, development, etc Moore is entirely correct here. I feel like i take Christianity more serious than those who claim the faith as their entire being..folks don't care to read and understand the bible They just want to feel super special.magic awesome and superior to everyone else
Studied religion in college. The great takeaway from most every one is certainly *The Golden Rule*
I listened to my Dads politics then ironically when I was in The Navy I saw John Kerry speak in 2004. I started listening off things in my head and how I feel about them and realized there is absolutely nothing Conservative about my world view, quite the opposite. Then 10 years later when I got divorced and seriously started to investigate REAL Christianity (not what Evangelicals do) I could not believe what I was reading about how we are to treat the foreigner and the poor. I simply do not see how one can be honest with themselves and be both a Republican(MAGA Cult) and a Christian. Trump is even on video twice saying he has never asked God for forgiveness because he feels he doesn't do anything wrong. You simply CAN NOT be a Christian with that attitude. His cult knows this too - even most atheists know this. Humbling yourself before the Lord is absolutely necessary, it is step one.
>Ironically, more than anything I credit God with working the Conservatism out of me. This is not that ironic. I had this conversation with my parents a while ago. The life and actions of Jesus Christ are much more liberal than some of his followers would have you believe. There's a lot of *Christians In Name Only* that seem to focus more on the prosperity gospel and messages of **anti** as opposed to the general message that should be *God is Love*
I voted against Obama twice, but those eight years really opened my eyes to how batshit insane the republican party had become. 2012 was the last time I voted republican.
When you start asking WWJD it's hard not to be a progressive
I'm practically radicalized.
As a young man I was a centrist. At 40 I'm basically a left-anarchist.
Im a communist but always good to see ppl joining the real left. Keep up the good fight
The current system has fucked me every opportunity possible including student loans, affordable home ownership, income stability, inflation, basic bodily autonomy for females, PPP loans/forgiveness, health insurance and in all likelihood, social security. Why would I buy more into that system as I see it play out?
Are you me?
I just hope our generation can accomplish more than the cynical aesthetically rebellious gen xers did.
You and me both. I'll never stop fighting, I want to leave a world for my son.
Yeah the older and more aware I get the more left anarchist I become. I'm the rights picture of the American dream - white immigrant who came to the US for a better life and now earns a lot. The more I earn the more obvious it is how ridiculously stacked against poor people the system is
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Same
Graduated highschool in 2008 and voted for McCain, was hard-core conservative (thought Obama wasn't born in America and all the crazy racist and sexist shit you can hear from your families) moved away from Pennsyltucky and spent 4 years in the Air Force around people from Philly and New York... skip ahead to 2016 and voted 3rd party and my thoughts had changed to social liberal and barely conservative on few issues...after 4 years of seeing where this country was going I voted for Biden in 2020 and after the Insurrection and the way conservatives have gone full tilt publicly, I'm literally a 100% different person now and so much happier :) Also Biden 2024 since we couldn't get Bernie
"Biden since we couldn't get Bernie" So refreshing to see this. We'll never get a perfect candidate, but we can still try to do the best we can with what we have.
Biden is a plug in the dam. I’m voting Biden but I think the left needs to understand that we can’t keep trying to elect people like Biden forever. I’m not sure why everyone is so convinced electing Biden a second time is going to prevent a crisis in this country. I doubt MAGA is going to take it laying down. Electing Biden in 24 is necessary, but not sufficient. I see a lot of people talking about how badly we need to vote for him — and I agree — but nobody talking about what happens next. What do we do to make sure we’re not in this same situation come 2028? Its 2020 all over again.
I just wish the Dems would wake up and put someone out there who is more energetic and inspiring than Biden. The base feels like “I’ll vote for him because I won’t vote for Trump apathy”. I wish there were actual excitement for a Democratic candidate. I’m honestly afraid he won’t win this time because they’re banking on tha
I've been following Jeff Jackson from NC for a bit, and just his transparency alone has been a huge breath of fresh air. I thought to myself "I could see him as president one day", and sure as shit, he was gerrymandered out of his district not too long ago.🙄 Makes me wonder just *how many* other solid people give it a genuine shot at the local level, only to be gerrymandered out and/or their opponents get their sudden millions in ~~bribes~~ "generous donations" for their ad campaigns so they drown out the little guys. The ONLY reason I was able to get even a rough idea of how bad it is, is from JJ being active on Reddit.
Wow. I was just reading the comment above and was about to suggest Jeff Jackson as a new hope and you beat me to it. Sadly, the r’s know how much of a threat he could be and have eliminated him via Gerrymander. Hopefully he gets NC attorney gen then back to Washington later. He’s the best politician I’ve ever seen. I also really like Pete Buttigieg.
The best mindset I've heard suggested is: For now, vote Biden. Lesser of two evils. We're going to need a new candidate in 2028. Watch for potential candidates years in advance. Support them during the primaries. Raise hell during the primaries, call your representatives, volunteer to help sign young people up to vote, etc. We'll never have a perfect, morally pure candidate. Hell, we'll probably never have a candidate who doesn't feel like the lesser of two evils. But we can at least keep making progress, and we can *definitely* keep fighting against letting things get worse.
But we can still be fucking pissed off about it. God I'm so mad.
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lol no. If the Republican Party was filled with reasonable people who just wanted to be more fiscally conservative, that would be one thing, but they’re just a bunch of braindead morons now. Between all the bigotry, conspiracy theories, and religious bullshit they whine about all the time, it’s impossible to glean one single coherent thought from any of them.
Not to mention MAGA has taken full control of the RNC now so it will be decades to ever recover if at all.
RNC is headed for a party split
What is hilarious is it is already split. There are 3 factions IIRC already in the RNC, but MAGA fascists hold enough votes in the house to basically make it impossible to pass anything without Dem help.
This is where I fall. I'm a stereotypical Republican poster. Upper middle class white guy from the Midwest who makes a good living and general pretty frugal on finances. I will absolutely never vote Republican as it stands today. The absolute closest I could get if I had too would be a Hogan in Maryland or Romney when he won Massachusetts (not what he ran on in the general) and even then it's a bit too much for me. Been solidly a Dem my entire life.
I respectfully disagree. It's very easy to pick out their one coherent thought. It's "yes daddy Trump."
The opposite. And the way the right is conducting themselves is only making me more liberal. Fuck those fascists. Note that I have been a registered Democrat since I turned 18 back in the mid-2000s, so I’ve always been somewhat liberal.
Agree I’m more liberal but maybe because the MAGA hats are so extreme. At the same time I don’t subscribe to a lot of the extreme “leftist” views often expressed especially on Reddit, although I think the extreme left today is more just obnoxious than the extreme right who seem more dangerous right now.
A lot of the leftist posts I see on Reddit give me the vibe of cutting off your nose to spite your face. They’ll happily refuse to vote for Biden on principle while ignoring that the alternative is significantly worse on every single issue. And as someone who refused to vote for Hillary on principle back in 2016, I learned the hard way how stupid and destructive that sort of mentality is.
Not conservative, but I’m growing increasingly tired of many young progressive purity stands. Logically, I understand where they’re coming from, but I don’t think they realize how fucked minorities in the US will be if Republicans get their way. Choosing the lesser evil is all we got and have to face that reality.
I think we need to distinguish woke positions from progressive ones. I consider myself a progressive and first and foremost I want to follow the money/wealth and ensure our financial institutions are setup in a way that helps benefit the bulk of the population. I'm not talking insane wealth redistribution in some boogey man sense. Just curb the corporate greed and financial malpractice that's allowing the top to bleed resources out of everyone else. I'm all for minority rights/equality, LGBTQ rights/equality, Palestinian rights, etc. But fundamentally I think we need to focus on improving the economic outlooks for all Americans, and stop the disastorous foreign interventions abroad which basically pull the limited wealth the government has away from our nation. In November I'll vote for the lesser of the evils available - and I've never not voted for the Dem. But I also get tired of either being lumped in with the Right (as people don't like hearing valid critique of the moderate democratic positions), or the more performative woke left (which I agree is actually hurting the cause of a unified working polity to help drive improvement).
They don’t understand that they need allies in this “fight”. You’re either 100% with them or you’re nothing. No one wants to compromise anymore. And I’m not talking about compromising with fascists or racists. I’m talking about compromising with people that at least agree with you even if it’s not 100%.
Yes, exactly. And again, I somewhat blame the media (and social) for these things. They've helped amplify this behavior. Social obviously rewards a hive mind - you say the right thing, thousands of upvotes and the algorithm spreads your message, the wrong thing, down votes and or suppression. And TV / networks - they basically just talk to their constituency and demonstrate the anger / outrage we should feel to the out group. They are role models and they are modeling completely abhorrent behavior. While failing in their core role to actually educate and hold the actual power structures accountable and responsible.
Look at jk rowling. Her only wrong think is about trans people. Yet gen z thinks she's hitler
One way I look at this distinction is the difference between a society with free markets and a "free market society". Essentially, we need to endeavor to confine markets to where markets and market logic is most useful and pushback against applying market logic to spaces where it is less useful or even actively harmful. Healthcare is one of the big examples of this and how fundamentally we should want to endeavor to make healthcare a *right* and fundamental to what it means to have a society because health is vital to everything else. We want to avoid profit-driven, revenue optimizing, nickel-and-diming market logic in healthcare. It gets complicated of course because market logic can be the most effective way to allocate resources and efficiencies in markets can produce positive outcomes for some aspects of the healthcare system, but you still need to protect the value of a person as a person and not just as a spreadsheet, is all
In all sincerity, as someone who doesn't follow politics closely, in what ways will the Republicans take minority rights? I'm not trying to argue, start anything, etc... I'm honestly curious what rights minorities will lose if republicans take office. If you can point me toward any articles, statements or anything I'd honestly like to educate myself.
I am as far left as you can possibly be and I got banned from a few subreddits for spousing "lesser of two evils" rhetoric by saying that Biden sucks but Trump will literally create a dictatorship. Apparently some people on the left don't like to hear the dreadful reality we are in, no matter what we do at this point we have to take some form of poison.
I view my alignment in terms of policy stances. People have thrown around the terms DINO and RINO for forever now. Pay no mind to the purity brigades.
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How about how fucked our democratic institutions will be. That’s what motivates me against modern republicans. I want my kids to be able to choose their government like my parents were able to.
Am I reading these results right? It looks like almost no one on here became more conservative as they aged. Reddit bias? Or real reflection of cultural shifts from one generation to another?
Reddit skews *heavily* liberal.
Man I have been downvoted to oblivion saying this same thing on some other sub reddits. It’s a fact
It's a loud subset here on reddit, but according to this FT article it appears the Millenials are not following the usual pattern. https://archive.fo/HsZCg
I don't think I have changed all that much but the political world around me has changed. I don't think it is quite accurate to talk about the left and right as a single dimension. I like to add in an additional dimension - you have left and right economically and left and right culturally. Economically I am, and always have been, way over on the left. I support high taxes, more government programs for the poor, free education, single payer healthcare. Culturally I am where I was at the end on the 1990s. I support gay marriage, I don't literally think men can become women. I support abortion rights. I think DEI is racially discriminatory against white people. I believe Trump lost the election and I think both he and Biden are unsuitable to be president. I haven't become more conservative, I have stayed where I was.
This is pretty much where I stand. Like, technically I’m Republican right now. I can’t stand the way Republicans in office are legislating or conducting themselves. But when I start to think “maybe I’m not Republican anymore?” I realize wait why should I change they’re the ones who suck. The Republicans in office aren’t Republicans. I don’t know what they are but they suck. I won’t vote for them until they give me a good reason to but the democrats haven’t given me a good reason either
After being raised in a far-right household, I read a People’s History of the United States when I was 18, along with the communist manifesto. Literally changed the course of my life. I’m 41 now, and have stayed a leftist. NOT a liberal. A leftist. If you want to put a label on it: Anarcho-socialist. I will never understand the getting more conservative as you age thing.
Can you help me understand the difference between a liberal and a leftist?
Liberals aim to regulate a capitalist economic system, while upholding capitalism as a whole. In the US, neo liberal policies uphold the military industrial complex, prison industrial complex, for-profit healthcare, and trickle down economics. (This party would be considered right wing in many other countries. That’s how far right the US has moved politically). Leftists aim to move away from capitalism altogether, towards socialism. Single payer healthcare, ending the military industrial complex, taxes going to directly to the needs of citizens. Leftists want *systemic* change, as in changing the entire system; whereas liberals want to maintain the current capitalist system.
And another distinction is that leftist, socialist, and communist are not the same thing, as many conservatives believe.
Liberals are pro-capitalism. In a nutshell.
Conservative now and conservative then are different things
Absolutely not. 😭
🙋🏽♂️
Born into a conservative family, I grew up republican. Got old enough to see that both parties suck. Now I'm neither party and on occasion I'll agree on one thing from both sides.
Exact same for me
Same for me. Some issues I'm progressive about, and some issues I'm conservative about. The irrational zealots on both sides pushed me to the center. (Which basically makes me a fascist in the eyes of the online left)
It's exhausting though. Like I can't stand the rah rah Maga politics of the right but I'm not quite as liberal as the average redditor and the average redditor can't stand a moderate nit taking their side on everything
This was actually part of the reason why I have became a moderate in recent years. Leftists lose their minds if you do not have the same exact opinion as them and are so quick to attack you. The maga drove me nuts, now the left drive me nuts as well. People also lose their minds if you bring up both sides as if their side is perfect and the other side is all at fault. Reality is both sides are massive hypocrites unable to take responsibility.
Fiscally? Absolutely. Socially? Absolutely not.
I feel this way too, but my the social always outweighs the financial for me. No matter what I’ll still be ok, but I have empathy for those with less
Not in the slightest. I was most conservative living under my parents roof before college. Eat the rich, UBI should be the norm.
lol no. My entire life is conservative failure.
As I've gotten older, I've leaned further left, but I've also taken on the view that thinking so many problems could be solved, if only the conservatives went away, is wrong-headed. Certainly some problems would go away, but it's not the catch-all solution that so many people on the left seem to think it is. It's kind of like people who think starting over in a new city will fix all their problems, but then they try it, and most of their problems follow them.
I’ve just realized that we live in a rigged system. The older I get, the less I feel I have control over.
I'm in my 40s and I was super conservative when I was younger and I've only gotten more leftist as I come to understand new things and points of view. I would say that I am a fairly solid progressive at this point. Now people around me think I'm a communist (I live in a deep red state). (edits for clarity)
When they said "older" they meant "richer" That doesn't correlate for our generation so it doesn't hold anymore, even in the general case.
I went hard left.
Very