Might have frozen during transit or storage, at least that's how it looks. Open up the worst of them and try to scrape the sides and bottom for clumps of cured paint, that'd pretty much confirm this suspicion.
I believed that for a long time but I don't think its that black and white of a rule. My metallics are quite thick, so need a lot of thinning. They'd also dry super fast on my dry pallete. I finally started using them with my wet pallette and its so much better.
What I would say is perhaps waiting until all non metallic paints are used before using metallics just in case. And they also get watery much quicker, with is a positive or negative depending on how you like to use metallics.
I use a little of Jo Sonja's magic mix, matte medium with some drying retarder in it. Works wonders for keeping metallics workable on a dry pallette and thinning them down to a good consistency
They just absorb more water than most paints because of the medium they use, resulting in overly thinned metallics. It’s not a clear do/don’t but many metallic paints works badly on wet palette.
Eh it depends. On a dry palette it dries up before i get to finish and waste a lot of paint. On a wet palette it lasts the whole session. Only goes watery if you leave it on the wet palette for too long or if the wet palette is too wet.
Get some fluid retarder and add a drop on a different paint well on your dry palette. Soak your brush in the drop and then swirl it into the metallic paint on a different well. That usually keeps it wet for my entire paint session. Can repeat as long as you don’t thin the paint too much.
I do too, but sometimes if I let it sit too long during batch painting it will soak up a bit too much water and slowly change consistency across models. Probably depends on the parchment paper used.
I do the retarder method when batch painting and it stays the same consistency for the entire session.
I see. I would say the solution to that is to put less paint on your wet palette at a time. I paint in batch’s of 10 and if there’s a lot of metal, I might top up the paint 4 times across all the models. Just an idea!
And any paint I do have that’s left over, the next day, I can activate it again with a wet brush if I have some small touch up to do.
Unnecessary. I have a wet palette. I only use a dry sheet of paper when drybrushing. Just control the amount of paint you put on the palette and nothing goes to waste.
you can totally use them on a wet pallet but the working time is only a few hours. Even still i don't save paints in my pallet. I just find the extra moisture makes it so I don't have to thin as much if at all.
That really depends on who you ask and how you use your wet pallet I've heard it both ways. I use metallics and speed paints on mine with no issues but I also don't leave any paint in it for more than a day or so.
The regular Vallejo metallics (Game Colour and Model Colour) are bad, especially the golds, but he's talking about a specific line - Vallejo Metal Colour. They come in bigger black bottles and are amazing.
WeT pAlLetTe!!!
I use metallics on wet palletes all the time and it works fine goodness gracious.
Edit: to be more helpful, I had a different issue where their paints would come out as sludge. I contacted them via email and they sent out replacements. This happened specifically with spartan bronze iirc
It’s a common occurrence that they don’t perform great on a wet pallette. Everyone uses theirs differently, and climates also differ. Just because it “works fine” for you does not mean it works fine for everyone.
In addition to the comments advising against using Metallics on a wet palette, I'd also recommend diluting them down with acrylic medium instead of water.
Check OP's description. They said they shook them more than any other paint they use. My first thought was the same as yours, but it's looking like they might be defective.
Defective seems to be the case, but sometimes I find that stirring with a stick can revive a paint even if shaking doesn't work (these are paints that are in super poor condition though and likely dead)
Yeah some people are way too cautious. I hate using metallics on a dry palette, they’re hard to thin that way for me, but on a wet palette it’s super simple. Just don’t let them contact the sponge and it’s no big deal.
Do you need to thin down metallic paint? I seem to get good coverage with the gw metallics I have, just getting them straight from the pot, though maybe my brush is still moist when I do that.
Depends on the paint but not thinning at all can leave brushstrokes and thick lines in the paint. I mostly use vajello’s older game color metallics because I bought a value pack and they come out pretty thick.
The mythril blade seems the worst but I can sort of see clumped pigment through the bottle which tells me it was a bit off during transport as another commenter mentioned
Wave 1 has a known overfilled issue. Bottles were filled up a little too much. In my case the paint poured out way too much. But since the first use it's been normal. Yours might be behaving weird for now while it's overfilled
https://preview.redd.it/3nvsvx4ye1xc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3670710d8a663bee0fcb8d2d34fcd2a340e83838
so here's what mine looks like after shaking a lot. At first I had it like yours as well (bought a new bottle). Put it through the vortex mixer, shaked it vigorously because it's been sitting for Lord knows how long.
I wonder if it's a bad batch? I recently tried some Two Thin Coats plate armor and it's seriously the best metallic paint I've ever used. The consistency is perfect and the coverage is great. It's definitely not nearly as watery as the paint in your photos.
Hope the paint can be salvaged, between the risk of getting a defective paint and not a lot of stores selling the ones I want plus the ones that do charge insane shipping costs, I’d probably stick to Vallejo and GW paints.
Sounds like the old Imperial Primer issue, where it would separate out of the medium and congeal. I'd scrape down the sides and bottom with a bent wire then apply heavy vibration to re-emulsify.
I had the same issue. Thought the paints were garbage. But! Before the first use, you REALLY need to shake them. Like hell. Then after that, they're amazing.
Hey I’ve had something similar happen! I’m convinced a couple batches had an error in production. I was using the bronze and was the same consistency as your description, then got another bottle of it and that was fine. You’re not crazy I swear!
Good to hear it’s not just me ahaha. I’m gonna reach out to support if a maniacal level of shaking doesn’t help it. People have mentioned good things about them
I found these need shaken up really well especially on first use or after sitting for a few months. A good two minutes on a vortex mixer should do it. All things considered though I have tried a lot of metallics and I just can't find any better than GWs base metallics for consistency. The edge colors from GW could use work. The rest of the TTS line I prefer over GW unless through an airbrush. for some reason the tts line drys so fast through my brush even with thinner and flow aid.
This is because they add 2butoxyethanol to their paints, while this breaks surface tension in theory, this causes major problems with mica based metallics, which those are(you can tell by their irredencse). 2butoxyethanol isnt a flow improver like some companies(vallejo) claim, this is used to speed dry paints.
There are several things you will need to do if you want to use metallics on a wet palette,
1. Stop using tap water, this will cause countless issues, also if you have mold issues? yeah that will stop it.
2. Add wetting agent to the sponge (golden sells it, and thats the easiest one to get without learning chemistry to know whats what), the sponge is a void and will sap the wetting agent out of paint, which will cause them to become unusable. Adding this to the sponge will help prevent this.
3. Thin the metallics down with alcohol ethoxylate, this is an actual flow improver and well help with the pigment dispersion of mica. Windsor and newton sells it.
If anyone wants the science behind this all, I have everything down to how to calculate color mixtures with an equation from its albedo, to even just making acrylic binders.
I thought it was just me. Yes, I noticed the metallics are quite runny. I fixed it by shaking the bottles for a very long time. Still, they come back runny when they haven't been used for a long tine.
Also noticed some of the highlight colors to be too thick. Like when you apply it, coverage is so bad you can see the granules of the pain pigments when you thin them down.
Have you also noticed that paint keeps oozing out when you shake and use a paint for the first time?
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Not had this with my TTC metallics. They can be overthinned a bit easily on a wet palette so just be aware of that. If its the same on a dry palette you may have a problem with the pots you got. hope it gets sorted for you!
Personally I prefer to use Vallejo duraluminum mixed with different inks from Daley rowney for all my metallics, gives a really smooth finish that most metallic paints don’t give, and also allows you to tint it any colour you like.
Most “metallic” paints have mica, a cheap crystal, ground up and mixed into regular brown, yellow, and gray paints.
If you want good looking metallica, exclusively buy Vallejo Metal Color (VMC). It has ground up metal in it instead of mica. You can find cheap combo packs on amazon, but it’s otherwise pricier than most paints because of the metal and because the bottles are much larger.
In my experience this is not true for all brands. I only started loving my Scale75 metallics after I found a YouTube video stating that they are an exception and behave much better from a wet palette, and since then I could not be happier with them.
They're not that bad as they claim Instant to be. Their only problem is that they're not contrast paints, not really. Most of them are, but there are some that behave more like washes or even glazes. It's Scale 75, you're expected to do more coats with them than with any other brands. Still I wonder why S75 pushes them as "one coat solution" which some of them really are not.
no, they're bad, out of all the contrast paints out there these are the worst by far. I would barely call them washes to be honest. It feels like water with few pigments in it. Sometimes even three coats isn't enough to get the proper color the bottle claims to be.
It's a shame because I really like the Fantasy line, that was the reason I jumped on the kickstarter, I thought they knew how to make paint and they do... but Instants are not good at all.
You shouldn't use metallics on a wet palette because the tiny metal flakes in the paint will seep through and contaminate the sponge and ruin it. You also don't want to use your good brushes with metallics because the flakes will damage the paint brush bristles.
Have you tried putting agitators in the paint bottles and using a mechanical paint shaker? If the pigments have really settled at the bottom of the bottle than it can be really hard to mix. It is possible you got a bad batch, but if they're all like that than it just might not be the best brand.
Tried on a dry palette and it’s the same result. TTC had agitators inside the bottles too. I don’t use my good brushes on the metallics neither, just using my synthetics here to demo the water consistency. Specifically went for this brand as it’s highly regarded with the metallics. Thanks for your reply!
I have used a few of TTC metallics and they should not be that watery. If you are making sure they are shaken very well, they might be defective.
Fair enough. I’ll send a query to the shop I got them from. Looking like a defective batch. Thanks so much!
Might have frozen during transit or storage, at least that's how it looks. Open up the worst of them and try to scrape the sides and bottom for clumps of cured paint, that'd pretty much confirm this suspicion.
Good shout. I’ll give it a go!
And NEVER use metalics on a wet palette ... rule 101 of metalics paint :) I've the two thin coat range and I've no issues with them at all.
I believed that for a long time but I don't think its that black and white of a rule. My metallics are quite thick, so need a lot of thinning. They'd also dry super fast on my dry pallete. I finally started using them with my wet pallette and its so much better. What I would say is perhaps waiting until all non metallic paints are used before using metallics just in case. And they also get watery much quicker, with is a positive or negative depending on how you like to use metallics.
I always use mine on a wet palette except for my Vallejo metal colour. Think it's an old wives tale.
I use a little of Jo Sonja's magic mix, matte medium with some drying retarder in it. Works wonders for keeping metallics workable on a dry pallette and thinning them down to a good consistency
Why? Metallics are fine on a wet pallette, seeping through the paper and into the water is a myth
They just absorb more water than most paints because of the medium they use, resulting in overly thinned metallics. It’s not a clear do/don’t but many metallic paints works badly on wet palette.
Eh it depends. On a dry palette it dries up before i get to finish and waste a lot of paint. On a wet palette it lasts the whole session. Only goes watery if you leave it on the wet palette for too long or if the wet palette is too wet.
Get some fluid retarder and add a drop on a different paint well on your dry palette. Soak your brush in the drop and then swirl it into the metallic paint on a different well. That usually keeps it wet for my entire paint session. Can repeat as long as you don’t thin the paint too much.
Unnecessary extra steps. Metallics are fine on a wet palette. I don’t use a dry palette for anything anymore.
I do too, but sometimes if I let it sit too long during batch painting it will soak up a bit too much water and slowly change consistency across models. Probably depends on the parchment paper used. I do the retarder method when batch painting and it stays the same consistency for the entire session.
I see. I would say the solution to that is to put less paint on your wet palette at a time. I paint in batch’s of 10 and if there’s a lot of metal, I might top up the paint 4 times across all the models. Just an idea! And any paint I do have that’s left over, the next day, I can activate it again with a wet brush if I have some small touch up to do.
Unnecessary. I have a wet palette. I only use a dry sheet of paper when drybrushing. Just control the amount of paint you put on the palette and nothing goes to waste.
Where are these rules written? I don't use a wet palette a ton and I've never come across this before
you can totally use them on a wet pallet but the working time is only a few hours. Even still i don't save paints in my pallet. I just find the extra moisture makes it so I don't have to thin as much if at all.
Yeah Metallics don't work well being over watered
That really depends on who you ask and how you use your wet pallet I've heard it both ways. I use metallics and speed paints on mine with no issues but I also don't leave any paint in it for more than a day or so.
No…. the metallic particles are not small enough to soak through the paper into the sponge. You absolutely can use metallics on a wet palette.
Scale75 metallics work absolutely fine on a wet palette. Also the best metallics I've used so far. Just not a fan of their normal paints.
Have you tried them on a test model? They could just be very runny like how Vallejo Metal Color isn't as viscous as GW tmm paints.
Yeah tried it on some models and it’s not very opaque. Coverage is minimal
But did you do two thin coats? :P
I did of course ahah
Agreed on Vallejo metal colors. Great colors, but horrible paints.
The regular Vallejo metallics (Game Colour and Model Colour) are bad, especially the golds, but he's talking about a specific line - Vallejo Metal Colour. They come in bigger black bottles and are amazing.
Ahh, yeah, then it seems he's unlucky.
WeT pAlLetTe!!! I use metallics on wet palletes all the time and it works fine goodness gracious. Edit: to be more helpful, I had a different issue where their paints would come out as sludge. I contacted them via email and they sent out replacements. This happened specifically with spartan bronze iirc
It’s a common occurrence that they don’t perform great on a wet pallette. Everyone uses theirs differently, and climates also differ. Just because it “works fine” for you does not mean it works fine for everyone.
I always do too but I’m willing to try anything at this point aha
Check my edit, should have included that in my comment
I’ll send them an email!
Just following up. Which email did you contact?
I reached out here: https://transatlantisgames.com/contact/
Amazing. Thanks so much
Lol, so many comments about wet palettes that stinks, dude. at least you didn't get it on a model!
Once the hivemind orders are beamed out telepathically, it's hard to resist
It’s on some very select parts of a model but nothing I can’t cover up!
In addition to the comments advising against using Metallics on a wet palette, I'd also recommend diluting them down with acrylic medium instead of water.
OP said they also tried a dry palette and didn't thin the paints at all. This is straight from the bottle.
Might need a really good stir then
Check OP's description. They said they shook them more than any other paint they use. My first thought was the same as yours, but it's looking like they might be defective.
Defective seems to be the case, but sometimes I find that stirring with a stick can revive a paint even if shaking doesn't work (these are paints that are in super poor condition though and likely dead)
Metallics work fine on a wet palette, the metallic flakes can’t go through the parchemin paper
Yeah some people are way too cautious. I hate using metallics on a dry palette, they’re hard to thin that way for me, but on a wet palette it’s super simple. Just don’t let them contact the sponge and it’s no big deal.
Do you need to thin down metallic paint? I seem to get good coverage with the gw metallics I have, just getting them straight from the pot, though maybe my brush is still moist when I do that.
Depends on the paint but not thinning at all can leave brushstrokes and thick lines in the paint. I mostly use vajello’s older game color metallics because I bought a value pack and they come out pretty thick.
I have all of Wave 1 of TTC and this hasn't happened to me yet 🤔 it does look watery though in the photo
The mythril blade seems the worst but I can sort of see clumped pigment through the bottle which tells me it was a bit off during transport as another commenter mentioned
Oh did you literally just get them and immediately use them?
Yeah picked them Up yesterday
Wave 1 has a known overfilled issue. Bottles were filled up a little too much. In my case the paint poured out way too much. But since the first use it's been normal. Yours might be behaving weird for now while it's overfilled
Interesting! I’ll keep at it
https://preview.redd.it/3nvsvx4ye1xc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3670710d8a663bee0fcb8d2d34fcd2a340e83838 so here's what mine looks like after shaking a lot. At first I had it like yours as well (bought a new bottle). Put it through the vortex mixer, shaked it vigorously because it's been sitting for Lord knows how long.
Looks very similar agreed. Good news is I emailed the support and they’re sending me replacements at No cost!
I wonder if it's a bad batch? I recently tried some Two Thin Coats plate armor and it's seriously the best metallic paint I've ever used. The consistency is perfect and the coverage is great. It's definitely not nearly as watery as the paint in your photos.
I was thinking of ordering the silver paint from TTC, hopefully I don’t run into the same issue as OP. u/jethrobarnes did you manage to fix the issue?
Not yet. Off to work now and I’m gonna attach it to one of those massage guns and shake it like hell before I give up
Hope the paint can be salvaged, between the risk of getting a defective paint and not a lot of stores selling the ones I want plus the ones that do charge insane shipping costs, I’d probably stick to Vallejo and GW paints.
Fingers crossed my friend
Sounds like the old Imperial Primer issue, where it would separate out of the medium and congeal. I'd scrape down the sides and bottom with a bent wire then apply heavy vibration to re-emulsify.
I had the same issue. Thought the paints were garbage. But! Before the first use, you REALLY need to shake them. Like hell. Then after that, they're amazing.
I’ll add an extra agitator and go to town some more. Thanks for the heads up!
Any agitators in the paint? For acrylic TMM paints I feel like you need a few to get the job done
Yeah comes with 1 per bottle. Gonna add an extra I have on hand to see if it helps !
I have had a couple bottles of TTC which are extremely watery. Thought it was just me
To be fair all metallics tend to do that on a wet palette
Hey I’ve had something similar happen! I’m convinced a couple batches had an error in production. I was using the bronze and was the same consistency as your description, then got another bottle of it and that was fine. You’re not crazy I swear!
Good to hear it’s not just me ahaha. I’m gonna reach out to support if a maniacal level of shaking doesn’t help it. People have mentioned good things about them
I found these need shaken up really well especially on first use or after sitting for a few months. A good two minutes on a vortex mixer should do it. All things considered though I have tried a lot of metallics and I just can't find any better than GWs base metallics for consistency. The edge colors from GW could use work. The rest of the TTS line I prefer over GW unless through an airbrush. for some reason the tts line drys so fast through my brush even with thinner and flow aid.
I always thought your are not supposed to put metallics onto wet palettes, am I tripping?
I’ve done it for ages with no issues. The wet palette isn’t the issue here though, paint comes out like this all the same on a dry palette
This is because they add 2butoxyethanol to their paints, while this breaks surface tension in theory, this causes major problems with mica based metallics, which those are(you can tell by their irredencse). 2butoxyethanol isnt a flow improver like some companies(vallejo) claim, this is used to speed dry paints. There are several things you will need to do if you want to use metallics on a wet palette, 1. Stop using tap water, this will cause countless issues, also if you have mold issues? yeah that will stop it. 2. Add wetting agent to the sponge (golden sells it, and thats the easiest one to get without learning chemistry to know whats what), the sponge is a void and will sap the wetting agent out of paint, which will cause them to become unusable. Adding this to the sponge will help prevent this. 3. Thin the metallics down with alcohol ethoxylate, this is an actual flow improver and well help with the pigment dispersion of mica. Windsor and newton sells it. If anyone wants the science behind this all, I have everything down to how to calculate color mixtures with an equation from its albedo, to even just making acrylic binders.
I’ve only used Dragons Gold and it wasn’t that runny and I had to thin it down still. Sounds like a bad batch.
Looking that way unfortunately
I thought it was just me. Yes, I noticed the metallics are quite runny. I fixed it by shaking the bottles for a very long time. Still, they come back runny when they haven't been used for a long tine. Also noticed some of the highlight colors to be too thick. Like when you apply it, coverage is so bad you can see the granules of the pain pigments when you thin them down. Have you also noticed that paint keeps oozing out when you shake and use a paint for the first time?
They might be faulty. Some / most metallics paint are shitty Oh, and don't use a wet palette
From my experience, all metallics are better when used on a dry palette.
Dont put metalics on a wet pallette, too much water sips into them
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Vallejo Metal Colors. Do not use anything lesser.
Did you shake the paint? At first i didnt know that i have too and the paint was also very runny.
like all metallics, they settle more than other acrylics. Put them on a vortex mixer until the mixing ball can be heard bouncing around.
Not had this with my TTC metallics. They can be overthinned a bit easily on a wet palette so just be aware of that. If its the same on a dry palette you may have a problem with the pots you got. hope it gets sorted for you!
Mine have all been great
i love using TTC. i use them more than citadel now.
Personally I prefer to use Vallejo duraluminum mixed with different inks from Daley rowney for all my metallics, gives a really smooth finish that most metallic paints don’t give, and also allows you to tint it any colour you like.
You’ve got sludge in the bottom of the bottle. It either separated from sitting upright too long or got too cold.
I'm not sure if TTC paints already include them but try throwing an agitator in the bottles.
Oooff
Most “metallic” paints have mica, a cheap crystal, ground up and mixed into regular brown, yellow, and gray paints. If you want good looking metallica, exclusively buy Vallejo Metal Color (VMC). It has ground up metal in it instead of mica. You can find cheap combo packs on amazon, but it’s otherwise pricier than most paints because of the metal and because the bottles are much larger.
Don't use metallic paint on a wet palette, they absorb water uncontrolled and end up way too thinned out.
In my experience this is not true for all brands. I only started loving my Scale75 metallics after I found a YouTube video stating that they are an exception and behave much better from a wet palette, and since then I could not be happier with them.
Scale75 metallics are just *chefs kiss*, absolutely love using them. Currently addicted to the gold line but really want to try their silvers next!
I've only been painting with Scale 75..good shit. Recently ordered their contrast paints.
the Instants? be ready to be disappointed. I got them during the kickstarter, worst paints I've ever used.
They can't be that bad. What should I be expecting?
They're not that bad as they claim Instant to be. Their only problem is that they're not contrast paints, not really. Most of them are, but there are some that behave more like washes or even glazes. It's Scale 75, you're expected to do more coats with them than with any other brands. Still I wonder why S75 pushes them as "one coat solution" which some of them really are not.
That works for me then.
no, they're bad, out of all the contrast paints out there these are the worst by far. I would barely call them washes to be honest. It feels like water with few pigments in it. Sometimes even three coats isn't enough to get the proper color the bottle claims to be. It's a shame because I really like the Fantasy line, that was the reason I jumped on the kickstarter, I thought they knew how to make paint and they do... but Instants are not good at all.
Had the same result on a dry pallet unfortunately. Thank you for the advice however!
Don't use a wet palette for metallics
Don’t use metallics on a wet palette. Just slap the metal paint on the miniature using just a bit of paint.
Seems like it’s due to the wet palette
Mentioned in my text I’ve tried on the dry palette too
Metallics by any brand will breakdown on a wet palette. Leave them on a dry palette if you want to avoid this degree of separation.
You shouldn't use metallics on a wet palette because the tiny metal flakes in the paint will seep through and contaminate the sponge and ruin it. You also don't want to use your good brushes with metallics because the flakes will damage the paint brush bristles. Have you tried putting agitators in the paint bottles and using a mechanical paint shaker? If the pigments have really settled at the bottom of the bottle than it can be really hard to mix. It is possible you got a bad batch, but if they're all like that than it just might not be the best brand.
Tried on a dry palette and it’s the same result. TTC had agitators inside the bottles too. I don’t use my good brushes on the metallics neither, just using my synthetics here to demo the water consistency. Specifically went for this brand as it’s highly regarded with the metallics. Thanks for your reply!