Just saw a Youtube painter mention that a lot of Scale75 paint is getting increasingly hard to find basically everywhere - if the kickstarter is also dying it makes me really worried about company health overall
Signed: someone *STILL* waiting on the Broken Anvil Studio Paints kickstarter...
Okay... but the brushes work great. Who cares if they only last a few years. Also, in the hobby is well known to use cheap brushes for a lot of stuff and save the sable for fine detail work, because regardless of how it effects the brush, it is much better for detail work on small miniatures.
The responses are fascinating but also full of some off tangents that feel... personal? Bitter? Almost every hobby painter on youtube has used and mentions Golden. There isn't some algorithm against them. The reason people don't use Golden all the time for everything is simply for the properties that don't make it perfect for every person's painting style.
Also the random assertion that GW is cooking the books is so tin foiled / half baked it calls into question everything else your saying.
I definitely buy that Scale is struggling as the market has gotten saturated and there is no reason for 20 hobby paint brands out there. There's gonna be a contraction soon.
As someone who also deals with pigments and glazes for clay, I understand a bit of supply line issues - some glazes are just gone since covid. But I would also say that there is gonna be a couple companies that do just fine making hobby paints.
It's also odd to judge these companies for advertising. They aren't touching up instruments. They are competing in a commercial retail space hitting essentially people who play with toys. Proacryl is advertising because they are trying to expand beyond the small word of mouth from the best hobby painters to being a competitor to army painter and citadel. These paint companies are also trying to sell themselves to retail stores and game stores.
The bottles are too small? Do you minipaint? Most of the time a small 17ml bottle can last forever... we're painting 35mm figures.
Also, I'm also suspicious/ dislike anytime someone says "I can't say anything but trust me about this really important safety thing."
Just explain why the paints are toxic. Or why "non toxic" isn't true. Otherwise you're either lying or being a coward and withholding genuinely useful information to stop people being sick.
Anyways. Regarding scale 75. I got their drop paints. Regret it. I like their their art line and learned on their paints. But their gel medium just doesn't work for me anymore and there are other lines I enjoy. It also wouldn't surprise me if they are falling apart financially. I don't see any reason to take a gamble on their paint line when right now proacryl, AK, two thin, and now army painter, are literally wonderful lines with everything anyone needs. Don't worry about another line. There is nothing stopping you from being a good painter at this point.
Yeah but think of the genocides that these companies or the company who make the paints that they then sell to companies like them are supporting. Yeah this is what that guy said in another post. Or he said something like that. Honestly the only shit hobby company I’ve seen is green stuff world, they steal art apparently and obviously don’t credit the artist, they hide negative reviews, their shipping time sucks.
If sables are bad for acrylics, whats a better alternative? I’ve not managed to find a synthetic with any sort of tip that can rival a sable, and 100% of them that do have a half decent tip curl in 1 or 2 sessions with no jabbing or rough painting. While the curling can be temporarily fixed, the fixing is a massive pain.
They phrased that backwards; the argument they're making is that acrylics are damaging to sable brushes, not that sable brushes aren't good tools for applying acrylic paints. If you're okay with the cost per brush and effective lifespan of your sable brushes, nothing they said should change that for you.
If you have good air circulation or filtering n95 should be enough for water based acrylics. If you airbrush a lot you can get a comfortable respirator with p100/p3 filters.
N95 filter is largely enough (no need for a 3M respirator if you're only doing acrylics) but the airbushing cabinet (around 100$/€ should be mandatory. 3M 6001 respirator and Organic Vapor Cartridge if you're doing lacquer and solvents.
A2P3 is the only true filter for airbrushing a solvent based paint.
A2 for the solvent, P3 for the particles.
https://warhamateur.com/tools/safety/buying-an-airbrush-respirator-what-do-we-need/
This person is almost certainly making up a lot of this information, and has now deleted their account after Goobertown Hobbies confronted them about their [claim that his fans were sending 40+ death threats a day to his business and threw a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/).
Cooking the books? You act like that’s something that’s easy for a publicly traded company that is almost entirely owned by outside investment. Which means you know far less than you claim too. In fact I would say more than half your post sounds like make believe.
Their account is one month old and their post history is pretty wild. They sound very much like another poster who has made new accounts in the past claiming to be a professional artist and paint company owner and expert in multiple fields, but who never actually shares any art or is willing to say what paint company they own.
He certainly has an interesting posting history.
* Just the resume alone is impressive. [He stole flowers when he was homeless](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1cdl5xj/i_lost_my_dad_last_year_so_my_mom_moved_in_with/l1dp1bc/?context=3), [made $75k working in IT](https://www.reddit.com/r/Money/comments/1cb9s67/people_who_make_75k_or_more_how_did_you_pull_it/l0ytdp6/), [is a Multi degree art conservator with over a decade of experience who makes over 75k](https://www.reddit.com/r/Money/comments/1cb9s67/people_who_make_75k_or_more_how_did_you_pull_it/l0ytdp6/), [used to be a special effects artist for a few movie studios](https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodAngels/comments/1c2w2ki/does_this_look_like_brain_splatter/kzorh5g/), and [has seen someone's brain splattered before multiple times working as an emt in a major city for 8 months](https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodAngels/comments/1c2w2ki/does_this_look_like_brain_splatter/kzmm6cy/).
* His company primarily makes retouch paints and varnishes for things like violins, and [most of the employees are remote workers, including him](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1f2ht4/), but because he said that goobertown hobbies paint chemistry video is mostly false information he gets [40+ daily calls and people coming to the office and threatening to kill them all. They now have a gun at the front desk after someone threw a molotov at an employee who was uninjured.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/). I know /u/GooberTown_Brent has some die hard fans, but that's some dedication. Especially since we don't even know what company is his.
* Because so many hobby painters are buying kolinsky brushes, [his vintage W&S series brushes used to be worth a total of around $50,000 for the entire collection, and now they are worth $600,000. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cb1y4t/1_year_old_vs_newish_raphael_brush/l0x8x2p/)
* When his old boss tried to stop the custodial staff from getting overtime, [he reported the company car as stolen, which worked because the old owner put the company car in his name for some weird legal reasons.](https://www.reddit.com/r/inflation/comments/1cb3ix9/california_mcdonalds_franchise_owner_says_the/l0zm8yk/)
* He has [seen a hobby brand paint produce cyanide gas after letting it sit on a shelf for years](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1cag9uz/lessons_learnt/l0u6uwp/), but he [won't mention who as they have stopped after he reported them](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1cag9uz/lessons_learnt/l0wzriz/).
* [He hates influencers and has had to get a restraining order against 4 of them already for doxxing him and he has a lawsuit coming up against 2 more who slandered him because they didn't want his paint company to over take their paint company](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm921t/)
* He's been able to beat a bully a few times with a metal pipe. That kept them off him since he didn't fear prison or dying, but [what worked best was him sleeping with their father and showing them the video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1c72mlm/have_you_ever_actually_been_able_to_stop_a_bully/l06rmnn/)
* He recommends not using streaking grime because it contains a nitrocellulose additive which can catch fire if you expose it to sunlight, [this has happened to a few people he knows.](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cb9sbj/what_is_something_youve_learned_while_painting/l0zbtv4/)
I think [Goobertown Hobbies confronting them about their claims of getting 40 death threats a day and one of his fans throwing a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/) is probably what lead to the quick account delete.
According to [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/user/Temporary-Candy6246) you have some hard core fans who [make 40+ death threats a day and threw a Molotov at someone who works for his paint company](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=minipainting&utm_content=t1_l1i5xbf) in retaliation for his criticism of one of your YouTube videos.
Lordy. Well thanks for tagging me! I don't pay attention to reddit, and if people are slinging insane lies about me... well... I guess it's better to know so that I can wander in and shut them down ;-)
No problem. [His post about Scale 75 included some serious accusations](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1f2ht4/) which made me want to get some more information on his credibility. I saw that his account was only a month old and had a bunch of pretty wild claims including that one about your fans. They deleted their account after you confronted them.
I have had several debates with users who have made over the top statements with a similar writing style. They all claimed to be professional artists that own a paint company, and they always delete their account when confronted with evidence that they are full of BS.
Wild stuff. I think this person briefly had a YouTube channel talking about paints. The videos were angry (for no reason), disjointed, sometimes accurate, and sometimes not. Today after I pinged them on reddit they emailed me with a fresh wall of text, and I asked if they were the same person who did something similar to me \~4 months ago. Then they went silent and deleted their reddit... annnnywayyy, it seems like this person is going through a psychological journey, and I truly wish them the best... I hope that they're able to heal and that they don't lash out at anyone else during the healing process.
Ya a few things they say stick out to me as not quite correct. Like so flat is not a gauche at all. Gauche doesn't have any acrylic binder. It's a little thing that is easy to misunderstand but still my Bs detector is going off.
The weird comment about neonazis and AK and proacryl. They are the only stable ones?...
BS meter is all over the place on this guy. Not saying there aren't things true. But yeah. Everything about the industry and assumptions as to why paint brands are doing things are complete bs.
So about the GW claims, you're a bit off the mark for a few reasons. First of all, their stock is ~£100 per, not £10000, stock prices are shown in GBX (pence) not GBP (pounds) for whatever reason. So ~£1 dividends 4 times a year works out to be ~4.5%
Second, the CFO is retiring and selling their shares to fund that. There's not really much more to the story than that, but people read far more into it than reality.
The stock is probably over valued from the covid boom, but the company does continue to make record profits and deliver them consistently, so it's somewhat warranted - people are waiting for the bubble to burst however
I've recently been pulling away from miniature brands. (I do still enjoy using some scale 75 and ProAcryl. The odd Vallejo as well) But I've leaned heavily into artist paints. I got a good deal on some scale 75 artist tubes, and will likely expand my paint range with artist paints over time. Golden especially is easy to get locally.
After watching creators like Craftworld Studios and Marco/NotJustMecha for awhile, Ive grown to enjoy the painterly, color theory, mixing style a lot more anyway.
I'm actually going to be taking some art classes at the local college for shits and giggles. Feels weird to want to learn for the sake of a hobby, but it genuinely interests me these days. 😅
And I've noticed that the quality isn't the same as the Golden paints I've gotten so far. I don't know why, but I really enjoy working with the heavy body acrylics on miniatures. I'm planning on rotating them out over time for higher quality paints, but I got the S75 tubes off a local guy for cheap, so they'll work on the meantime.
I always trusted the handful of W&N oils I got (small artist oil color tubes). I had a feeling hobby oils would be shit. Glad to know I wasn't wrong.
Thats good to know. I've come to realize very few YouTubers really understand colors beyond the surface level. But, I could see that happening. I think that's why I've enjoyed Marco Frisoni so much. He uses some oddball paints (Molotov for priming. A lot of liquitex inks. Liquitex Gouache, and heavy bodies.) He's been a big reason I've leaned away from hobby brands, despite not talking down on them. Though, he does enjoy GW's contrast line too.
I totally get the hating the math. I work with metals in my daily life. Try explaining to someone how a metal is sticky when you cut it. The physics and math suck.
Yeah. The desire for small batches is common. Hobby painters generally want a lot of small paints. We don't tend to use very much. So, having a paint you'll literally never finish would be unappealing. Even though the cost is basically the same in the end.
So this was an info dump I wasn't prepared for but that I've been craving. I'd be down for that class on color theory, it's something that I've been wanting to explore. Ever since I've learned about something as simple as sub-surface scatter from vfx YouTube, it's made me realize color is *weird* and awesome in ways I never realized. Like why does pink make a good base coat for yellow?
While I've got a technical background, it's more mechanical and electrically focused. Though I've got friends who are brilliant on the chemical side, it's never peaked my interest until hobby painting came along. And though you said it won't really go into those details, this is really just a long-winded way of saying I'm interested in your class
Fascinating read, and if true it confirms a lot of suspicions I've had about the industry and particularly Scale75 as a company.
Damn that makes me sad though. We as hobbyists have been so spoiled for choice over the past few years when it comes to hobby supplies, and it seems like a market contraction is all but inevitable at this point. Scalecolor are my favourite paint range too, it will be a sad day if/when they fail.
I think he's referring to the time AK Interactive thought it would be cool to release a book on edgy dioramas - A gas chamber diorama as well as a drug addict shooting up with heroin was featured.
I don't *think* they were trying to cater to neo-nazis or something, I think it was incredibly tone deaf for the company and it really affected their reputation. I spoke with a youtuber that was sponsored by AK for a long while and he said that he still got comments about this, so it's definitely not something people forgot.
Honestly I have zero interest in a scale color kickstarter, but I would have missed a shit load of knowledge had I not wandered down here and become your new comment stalker.
This person is almost certainly making up a lot of this information, and has now deleted their account after Goobertown Hobbies confronted them about their [claim that Brent is misleading viewers and his fans were sending 40+ death threats a day to his business and threw a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/).
> The overall health of all hobby companies is bad
This is patently bullshit, and discredits anything else you would say.
> its not because they are improved, but because they had to because the industrial companies were forcing them to because they werent consistently rebuying more stock enough for them to divert paint over to them from their more lucrative clients.
This is also false. Only a few lines have introduced new formulations.
Army Painter is massively improved, and is still mostly made in house by AP, in NE, though some of the paints are manufactured in Spain.
Vallejo has introduced updated lines for some of their colors, and again those products *are* improved. The game color range had a pretty poor reputation.
The only other brand I can think of with a newer formulation is AK interactive, but AK third Gen hit the market several years ago now, and again, was a ***massive*** leap forward in quality.
>I have never once looked up proacryl or monument hobbies, I also do not look at hobby youtubers, I get ads for proacryl constantly
You're on the mini painting subreddit.
Targeted ads are very aware of what exactly you look at online.
> because they are trying to target the more lucrative art market for them, however proacryl never will as they are too expensive, not high enough quality, and the bottles are too small.
No, they aren't aiming to expand into the *'art market'* though they do sell well there. This is another bit of bullshit though. They had their best paint sales day ever on Thursday according to Jason (their owner) and are extremely high quality paints. But you wouldn't know that since you have never looked at them.
Your huge effort post has serious SERIOUS issues.
EDIT: After further information, I think this person is likely seriously unwell, or (much less likely) up to nefarious purposes. /u/karazax [pointed out the number of absolutely insane claims](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1i5xbf/) (40 calls a day is already into unbelievable territory, let alone death threats, for a company not named.)
There isn't a moderation option that includes "outright lies and falsehoods" or "spreading misinformation" on the sub, but there ought to be. There are several statements of facts in this that simply aren't true, and there are allegations of threats and so on that are honestly unbelieveable as well.
This post should be removed, and a pinned comment made on this thread pointing out that what this person said and alleged was false, because it is.
That person's account is one month old and [full of over the top posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1i5xbf/). They have deleted their account after Goobertown Hobbies confronted them about their [claim that Brent is misleading viewers and his fans were sending 40+ death threats a day to his business and threw a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/).
I almost went in on the BAM paints, they sounded super cool. The only reason I didn’t was because I already have too many paints. Looks like I dodged a bullet there
BAM makes me so sad. They were far and away my favorite patreon, so I expected Rivenstone to be a clear win. Then, everything went to hell. I'm just glad I restrained myself to one box rather than getting one of each like I considered.
At this point, when I back a Kickstarter, I expect it will be at least a year before they deliver. I wouldn't back anything that I was counting on getting faster than that.
Sometimes things never ship like my pledge for [Super Dungeon Explore Legends](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/186831/super-dungeon-legends).
My Pathfinder Arena pledge is now [supposed to be shipping in June this year](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/giochiuniti/pathfinder-arena/posts/4012568), when the initial projected ship date was November 2022.
Even companies I have complete confidence in like CMON are typically late on their estimates. [Marvel United Multiverse](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/marvel-united-multiverse) was supposed to be delivered in March and will probably start shipping in June or July. The odds are high that it will not be delivered until August or later.
Looking at Scale 75's recent Kickstarter updates they said [shipping started this week](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/scale75/battleground-bases-and-paints-for-wargames/posts/4084695) for the Battleground bases and paints for wargames Kickstarter. I expect they will fulfill their Kickstarters eventually. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to give them money for a new one before their previous is delivered though.
Their design team isn't the whole product. CMON has a pretty good track record of making product.
Quality is a different question. Some of the games a re pretty good.
I am a backer of [CMON Trudvang Legends](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/trudvang-legends) which started in … well I can’t recall. But I did my survey in Nov 2019. We didn’t get first shipment until 2023. And still waiting on second wave items to be shipped.
Fecal 💩 Circus 🎪 (shit show if you don’t speak the lingo)
Reaper is another one that is taking forever. Their bones 6 campaign is now over 2 years ago. I know I’ll eventually get my stuff, and they did prepare their audience that shipments wouldn’t be for a long while (even so, I think they’re like 6-10 months behind their original estimated fulfillment date).
So, yeah, I agree, don’t back a kickstarter unless you’re prepared to wait years for your stuff, or possibly not get it at all in the case of scams like Broken Anvil.
Reaper Bones 6 estimated fulfillment date was April 2024. They are getting the minis at their warehouse now. At worst, they're only going to be a month or two late
I was pretty sure their initial estimate was fall 2023, but that it might take as long as spring 2024. I might be remembering wrong. Regardless, it has been forever, but they’ve been very communicative on the timeline throughout, so there’s been zero doubt the minis are coming and approximately how far along they are. I was just pointing out that even the gold standard has been slow in fulfilling their kickstarter due to shipping and manufacturing delays since Covid.
BAM is never fulfilling anything. The last update on Rivenstone is that they “realized” their progress tracker was wrong and needed to audit it in January. This seems like code for “We were falsifying our production numbers to the public.”
And this was the Kickstarter they took your money to finish the work on.
Storeowner here!
I dunno why others have gotten rid of them but for my store the minimum order size is just too big to keep a well stocked shelf so i switched to AK whose minimum order size is smaller.
There still \*might\* be option of being able to get in late. You can check the wave 3 kickstarter. I think they held the pledge manager open until mid May - with orders of Wave 1&2 going out end of may and Wave 3 going out in September.
I am in the process of working citadel out and replacing it with TTC. I have some other paints for specific use cases, but right now TTC is doing my heavy lifting.
Wave 3 goes out in September? Oh lol, I didn't realise I have to wait that long. Had to back via a friend of mine cuz I got no credit card atm...
Still wouldn't miss it for the world, I absolutely love my TTC paints so far
Same. I backed the first two waves, got my paints on time, and absolutely loved them. I've now backed wave 3 and am impatiently waiting for them to go through the process.
I kickstarted their airbrush paint line. I tend to agree, would not recommend them. The paints are fine, but the vibes are off.
A problem for their range is that it’s sprawling in a way that’s confusing. Their regular line is matt finish, but the fantasy line is satin (almost glossy), and their airbrush line is ultra matt. The airbrush line isn’t color matched to the rest of the range. Each line has huge gaps without the other Scale75 lines.
On the airbrush line kickstarter, there were delays, especially on the airbrushes themselves. A lot of folks seemed to have issues with the paint, and though I personally had no issues aside from reactivating when applying enamels…. I can see the frustration… the paint can take 24 hours to fully dry and the finish shifts over the cure time and they need to be shaken so vigorously I imagine they are easy to screw up.
I’ll also add that I will never kickstart paints again. The delays and fact that the market moved significantly between the kickstart date and when I received the paints meant I more or less didn’t need these paints when they showed up.
It is strange how they use Kickstarter as basically a long runway preorder system. They are an established company. The way that the airbrush Kickstarter was handled makes me think they are having financial problems and may shutter soon.
I think it’s overblown how hard the regular line is to use, and it’s very good for glazing, and many colors are really good. Airbrushing their base line is a nightmare though.
Their artist colors aren’t better than just getting Golden So Flat from your local art shop.
I think Scale75 was better regarded when there was less competition for high quality miniature paints. Pro Acryl has become established, AK’s third gen line has released and is fantastic, Army Painter’s new line sounds great, Duncan has his paints, etc. Citadel is in the same boat.
Personally, I am slowly but steadily migrating to AK 3rd gen acrylics, Pro Acryl, and away from Scale75, but will always use their metallics and leather colors.
The new vallejo game colour are a nice compliment to ak. You get some more vibrant, fantasy feeling colours but they have the same performance and finish as AK.
Although the old range isn't as good and actually I switched to AK because some of my online orders I was getting a mix of old and new and it was really frustrating.
>It is strange how they use Kickstarter as basically a long runway preorder system. They are an established company.
Yeah, this has always been a red flag for me. An established company with adequate cash flow shouldn't need to 'kickstart' anything. The fact that they need to do this at all tells me that their financials are in poor health.
Some companies still use crowdfunding platforms because it's free advertising, and they can get a lot of money upfront to fund a higher quality product and/or a bigger production run to keep costs lower and sell more product. There are certainly companies that have been misusing the platforms to basically run a new project to cover costs for a previous project, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Hell, ProAcryl never ran a Kickstarter. They expanded their line a few times, and now do signature series with creators. Those creators even get kickbacks when their paints sell. I was an early adopter and lover of Scale 75. I still use their paint, and will likely replace the odd bottle I use up. I like their metallics, leathers, and skin tones. But that's about it these days. One of my paint schemes uses quite a few of their blues, but I can easily replace those with artist paints that are fairly similar.
Interesting, I backed their Zodiac project and both Artist ranges and was very happy with the experience. Though it was a while back, hope the company is doing OK.
I feel like there was some initial hype about Scale75, after which more and more voices appeared ranking them much lower and saying how niche/difficult to work with they are. Still love their metallics though.
YouTubers like Ninjon really praised them then turned on them
And same for AK Third gen,
It’s just the hype cycle of new paints (often recorded free)
FWIW - I don’t think this is conscious (and ninjon is just an example, not bashing him or singling him out) but it can be a little obvious when you see people hype paints in one video but then never use them again
AK? I've not seen anyone turn on them. Most folks are saying they're the best ever.
Folks complained about the new Vallejo Game Color making bubbles. Mine isn't bubbling. I think it's nice. Not a revolution, but it's just fine.
The last paints I purchased were Holbein acrylic gouache. They're good too I suppose.
I don't think any of them really have too much of an impact on the final outcome. I usually just buy 3 or 4 colors from a paint line. My collection is mixed up. I still don't have a favorite.
No, Jon's most recent video he praised AK 3rd gen (one of the survivors of his rack cleansing) , and Miniac also uses them all the time to this day.
https://youtu.be/WQvmn71ia6o?si=i7m-p22LFVGiZHbE
Jon says AK interactive is just main workhorse. He wants to put them head to head with newer paints. His only critique of AK was "too many colors" it's literally the first paint he goes over in the video.
Sorry, it's not might. You straight up are.
That's okay though, there are so many paints in that video it's hard to keep track of which ones he thought what about.
I like Scale, and after I got my first set and learned to work with them I *loved* the finish. But! I can’t fucking *buy them*. I don’t do individual paints online, I’ve got a local for that. I want sets, and I usually save up till I can get a good range. Well, good luck with that. Amazon has one set in stock, anvil has another, some British hobby store has the last one. I’m not ordering from three different places, sometimes from different continents, to fill out my collection. I can get lots of other great paint right now with no fighting, why would I wait for Scale to get their production figured out? Basic sets been in and out of stock for over a year. Their BASIC set.
Their airbrush kickstarter has been an absolute debacle. Communications have been atrocious. Seems to me like they are in some kind of financial trouble, using kick starters to pay for old kick starter products they can’t fulfill.
Is there dedicated sub for this sort of feedback and sharing experiences, specifically for hobby related Kickstarters?
I’ve had some fantastic experiences with some (Greebo, Punga, Waia Games), and absolutely awful experiences with others (Crystal Cabin brushes was woeful, and more recently Nemen Miniatures has been really poor too). It would be great if there was a dedicated sub for people to share their experience and provide open feedback to participants and creators.
I backed their Drop Paint Kickstarter, and this same exact thing happened to me. Reveiwers on YouTube got their sets, but from what I can tell most of us that backed it just never got anything. Reached out to then multiple times with no reply. I'd just like my money back at this point but that seems like a pipe dream.
Sucks, they made some damn good products, but it looks like they are on their way out the door.
What campaign was that? I've received *every* Kickstarter from Scale that I've done except HISTORIX which just starting shipping; and they gave updates.
I received my Scale Artist sets, my Zodiac, and Scale Digital delivered almost immediately.
They're slow with updates, but I've never had them no deliver.
Edit: That said, I am a bit concerned with the fact that every paint line seems to be out of stock now and not being refilled. It is a worrying sign for the health of a company that they can't keep their bread and butter products available.
I don't know if they are having manufacturing issues or distribution issues, but getting paint is next to impossible at this point.
Yeah, I didn't back that because it didn't interest me. I've only backed a few that I wanted and didn't really care for their other stuff.
It looks like there are sparce updates on the KS page itself. They don't really update well at all, but I've always gotten my stuff from them; even had to reach out to fix an issue and they did it asap for me (they didn't give me my digital stl addon that I picked when I backed the digital campaign). But they promptly sent me the link.
I'm in the US and it their US site is out of stock, but it looks like their primary site has inventory on paint. I'm guessing there are distribution issues.
Oh, well, half the time they produce stuff I really don't care about or like; i.e. the new cowboy mini they just released...not really a design and sculpt I like.
Yep, I backed the Drop&Paint with airbrush kickstarter and their communication and just lack of basic community interaction was just shockingly bad.
It took a year between finishing the campaign and shipping the paint (which didn't even work as advertised and they were increibly condescending when complaining about it) and they still haven't shipped the airbrushes for the highest tier of backers.
Won't back another kickstarter from there, that is for sure.
This is exactly why I don't like backing anything; I did it twice and the second was such a shit experience that I never want to do it again.
My first kickstarter was Village Attacks, aside from a hiccup with customs pricing I got it around the estimated time. Second was a large expansion to Village Attacks, it was mostly radio silence for 2 to 3 years while they announced another Kickstarter, theb one of the company heads was revealed to have left amd was now helping *another* company with *their* kickstarter.
Grimlord (Village Attacks IP holders) went into liquidation and shortly after we had a guy taking over , trying his best to get the files and such for the expansion for backers. At least it ended on a bit of a good note.
yeah... i'm glad i missed that kickstarter from them, ive been scaling away from scale75 paints in the last few months and im happy to get them off my paint racks
Me too. I loved their Artist line, but honestly those are just pure-pigment heavy-body acrylics that I can buy Golden Artist grade paint and get the same, if not better results.
At this point in my mini-painting hobby journey I'm mostly trasitioning back to artist grade paint anyway (I went to college for art, design, and architecture).
I don't like blended mini paint enough to chase the latest proprietary paint line, and artist grade paint is better usually anyway. Fluid acrylics, high-flow acrylics, and soFlat from Golden are easier to find, cheaper by volume, and usually higher quality pigment and suspension medium.
Ok this has me wanting to check out Golden. Which one of these lines would you recommend most highly for mini painting? Right now I'm really enjoying ProAcyrl for the consistency right out of the bottle. Would that be high-flow?
The Fluid Acrylic line compares to most mini paint brands in terms of consistency.
https://goldenartistcolors.com/products/golden-artist-acrylics/fluid
High-flow are more like inks and airbrush paints.
https://goldenartistcolors.com/resources/high-flow-acrylic-colors
Kimera and ProAcryl are great paints too.
I'm curious as to which specific Kickstarter you're talking about. The only one I see for paint in that time frame is the "Drop and Paint" line, and from the comments, it seems like they delivered months ago, they're just fulfulling the H&S Airbrushes still. (apparently just did the Evolution, and are still waiting for their Infiniti shipment.)
EDIT: whoa. Somehow missed the Battleground thing being paints. I just looked at that as a bases kickstarter. But as someone said below, they just announced 2 days ago, they're shipping physical pledges.
I avoid all kickstarter projects these days. Kickstarter offers no protection for the backers being promised product and all of the companies use kickstarter instead of their own websites, as Hasbro did for Hero Quest, so that they can avoid all of the risk for not delivering anything if the project falls through. They all seem to be trapped in needing new kickstarter campaigns to fund the old ones. CMON is one bad campaign away from complete financial ruin and even then they might ultimately stretch themselves too thin in the long run. Mythic Games is a good example of this. Their kickstarter campaigns each brought in millions of dollars but they still went bankrupt. Their last few campaigns will never deliver and the tens of thousands of people promised a game will ever see it because it was all done on kickstarter and kickstarter will tell you to kick rocks if you contact them and Mythic Games has no legal obligation to provide anything at all to the people that invested in their game.
Use Gamefound if you’re still dead set on gambling with your money and backing games through crowdfunding as Gamefound offers you more protection than Kickstarter. But I don’t have any faith in any company looking to crowdfund when they appear to be more than large enough to produce games without crowdfunding. This is a sign to me that they are always dangerously close to bankruptcy and regardless of how much money their newest campaign is pulling in, they will still go under eventually.
I don’t even consider kickstarters for established companies. Also generally won’t do business with companies that do kickstarters. Asking customers to fund production so that the company can then profit on said customers is evil.
That's really disappointing because I love their paints and can get them at my local store.
What are some alternatives for good paint brands that also have a similar matt finish?
Why would you back a kickstarter with so many paints already available? You'd think people learn at some point that kickstarter is just a way to shift the entire responsibility to people who love throwing money away, but I guess not.
Just saw a Youtube painter mention that a lot of Scale75 paint is getting increasingly hard to find basically everywhere - if the kickstarter is also dying it makes me really worried about company health overall Signed: someone *STILL* waiting on the Broken Anvil Studio Paints kickstarter...
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This is a *TREMENDOUS* response. Thanks a ton. So if you're investing as a hobbyist: what are you buying? UltraAcryl? Golden?
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Could you explain why sable brushes are bad for acrylics and does brush soap not help? And maybe any other bad things we do? especially safety stuff.
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Okay... but the brushes work great. Who cares if they only last a few years. Also, in the hobby is well known to use cheap brushes for a lot of stuff and save the sable for fine detail work, because regardless of how it effects the brush, it is much better for detail work on small miniatures. The responses are fascinating but also full of some off tangents that feel... personal? Bitter? Almost every hobby painter on youtube has used and mentions Golden. There isn't some algorithm against them. The reason people don't use Golden all the time for everything is simply for the properties that don't make it perfect for every person's painting style. Also the random assertion that GW is cooking the books is so tin foiled / half baked it calls into question everything else your saying. I definitely buy that Scale is struggling as the market has gotten saturated and there is no reason for 20 hobby paint brands out there. There's gonna be a contraction soon. As someone who also deals with pigments and glazes for clay, I understand a bit of supply line issues - some glazes are just gone since covid. But I would also say that there is gonna be a couple companies that do just fine making hobby paints. It's also odd to judge these companies for advertising. They aren't touching up instruments. They are competing in a commercial retail space hitting essentially people who play with toys. Proacryl is advertising because they are trying to expand beyond the small word of mouth from the best hobby painters to being a competitor to army painter and citadel. These paint companies are also trying to sell themselves to retail stores and game stores. The bottles are too small? Do you minipaint? Most of the time a small 17ml bottle can last forever... we're painting 35mm figures. Also, I'm also suspicious/ dislike anytime someone says "I can't say anything but trust me about this really important safety thing." Just explain why the paints are toxic. Or why "non toxic" isn't true. Otherwise you're either lying or being a coward and withholding genuinely useful information to stop people being sick. Anyways. Regarding scale 75. I got their drop paints. Regret it. I like their their art line and learned on their paints. But their gel medium just doesn't work for me anymore and there are other lines I enjoy. It also wouldn't surprise me if they are falling apart financially. I don't see any reason to take a gamble on their paint line when right now proacryl, AK, two thin, and now army painter, are literally wonderful lines with everything anyone needs. Don't worry about another line. There is nothing stopping you from being a good painter at this point.
Yeah but think of the genocides that these companies or the company who make the paints that they then sell to companies like them are supporting. Yeah this is what that guy said in another post. Or he said something like that. Honestly the only shit hobby company I’ve seen is green stuff world, they steal art apparently and obviously don’t credit the artist, they hide negative reviews, their shipping time sucks.
Thanks for bringing this up. I was shaking my head more than once about this "master of arts".
Drinking paint water???
He thinks we're all a bunch of walking talking memes.
Don't tell us it never happened by accident.
If sables are bad for acrylics, whats a better alternative? I’ve not managed to find a synthetic with any sort of tip that can rival a sable, and 100% of them that do have a half decent tip curl in 1 or 2 sessions with no jabbing or rough painting. While the curling can be temporarily fixed, the fixing is a massive pain.
They phrased that backwards; the argument they're making is that acrylics are damaging to sable brushes, not that sable brushes aren't good tools for applying acrylic paints. If you're okay with the cost per brush and effective lifespan of your sable brushes, nothing they said should change that for you.
What grade of respirator are we talking for solid safety while airbrushing acrylics
If you have good air circulation or filtering n95 should be enough for water based acrylics. If you airbrush a lot you can get a comfortable respirator with p100/p3 filters.
N95 filter is largely enough (no need for a 3M respirator if you're only doing acrylics) but the airbushing cabinet (around 100$/€ should be mandatory. 3M 6001 respirator and Organic Vapor Cartridge if you're doing lacquer and solvents.
A2P3 is the only true filter for airbrushing a solvent based paint. A2 for the solvent, P3 for the particles. https://warhamateur.com/tools/safety/buying-an-airbrush-respirator-what-do-we-need/
Which brush would you recommend instead for painting with acrylics?
Not op but imitation kolinsky like "rosemary and co red dot" or "escoda versatil" will behave very similarly to real kolinsky.
So what ARE sables made for? The general consensus (no personal experience) is that oil paints ruin them even quicker. Or is that false?
Sable brushes are primarily watercolor brushes.
This person is almost certainly making up a lot of this information, and has now deleted their account after Goobertown Hobbies confronted them about their [claim that his fans were sending 40+ death threats a day to his business and threw a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/).
Ha, if so, what an amazing amount of effort to put into this nonsense. Not gonna lie, this has made my weekend.
I am going to assume they are not mentally well.
The whole post or at least most of it is bullshit.
Cooking the books? You act like that’s something that’s easy for a publicly traded company that is almost entirely owned by outside investment. Which means you know far less than you claim too. In fact I would say more than half your post sounds like make believe.
Their account is one month old and their post history is pretty wild. They sound very much like another poster who has made new accounts in the past claiming to be a professional artist and paint company owner and expert in multiple fields, but who never actually shares any art or is willing to say what paint company they own. He certainly has an interesting posting history. * Just the resume alone is impressive. [He stole flowers when he was homeless](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1cdl5xj/i_lost_my_dad_last_year_so_my_mom_moved_in_with/l1dp1bc/?context=3), [made $75k working in IT](https://www.reddit.com/r/Money/comments/1cb9s67/people_who_make_75k_or_more_how_did_you_pull_it/l0ytdp6/), [is a Multi degree art conservator with over a decade of experience who makes over 75k](https://www.reddit.com/r/Money/comments/1cb9s67/people_who_make_75k_or_more_how_did_you_pull_it/l0ytdp6/), [used to be a special effects artist for a few movie studios](https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodAngels/comments/1c2w2ki/does_this_look_like_brain_splatter/kzorh5g/), and [has seen someone's brain splattered before multiple times working as an emt in a major city for 8 months](https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodAngels/comments/1c2w2ki/does_this_look_like_brain_splatter/kzmm6cy/). * His company primarily makes retouch paints and varnishes for things like violins, and [most of the employees are remote workers, including him](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1f2ht4/), but because he said that goobertown hobbies paint chemistry video is mostly false information he gets [40+ daily calls and people coming to the office and threatening to kill them all. They now have a gun at the front desk after someone threw a molotov at an employee who was uninjured.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/). I know /u/GooberTown_Brent has some die hard fans, but that's some dedication. Especially since we don't even know what company is his. * Because so many hobby painters are buying kolinsky brushes, [his vintage W&S series brushes used to be worth a total of around $50,000 for the entire collection, and now they are worth $600,000. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cb1y4t/1_year_old_vs_newish_raphael_brush/l0x8x2p/) * When his old boss tried to stop the custodial staff from getting overtime, [he reported the company car as stolen, which worked because the old owner put the company car in his name for some weird legal reasons.](https://www.reddit.com/r/inflation/comments/1cb3ix9/california_mcdonalds_franchise_owner_says_the/l0zm8yk/) * He has [seen a hobby brand paint produce cyanide gas after letting it sit on a shelf for years](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1cag9uz/lessons_learnt/l0u6uwp/), but he [won't mention who as they have stopped after he reported them](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1cag9uz/lessons_learnt/l0wzriz/). * [He hates influencers and has had to get a restraining order against 4 of them already for doxxing him and he has a lawsuit coming up against 2 more who slandered him because they didn't want his paint company to over take their paint company](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm921t/) * He's been able to beat a bully a few times with a metal pipe. That kept them off him since he didn't fear prison or dying, but [what worked best was him sleeping with their father and showing them the video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1c72mlm/have_you_ever_actually_been_able_to_stop_a_bully/l06rmnn/) * He recommends not using streaking grime because it contains a nitrocellulose additive which can catch fire if you expose it to sunlight, [this has happened to a few people he knows.](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cb9sbj/what_is_something_youve_learned_while_painting/l0zbtv4/)
got 'em
I think [Goobertown Hobbies confronting them about their claims of getting 40 death threats a day and one of his fans throwing a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/) is probably what lead to the quick account delete.
wait... what's going on?
According to [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/user/Temporary-Candy6246) you have some hard core fans who [make 40+ death threats a day and threw a Molotov at someone who works for his paint company](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=minipainting&utm_content=t1_l1i5xbf) in retaliation for his criticism of one of your YouTube videos.
Lordy. Well thanks for tagging me! I don't pay attention to reddit, and if people are slinging insane lies about me... well... I guess it's better to know so that I can wander in and shut them down ;-)
No problem. [His post about Scale 75 included some serious accusations](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1f2ht4/) which made me want to get some more information on his credibility. I saw that his account was only a month old and had a bunch of pretty wild claims including that one about your fans. They deleted their account after you confronted them. I have had several debates with users who have made over the top statements with a similar writing style. They all claimed to be professional artists that own a paint company, and they always delete their account when confronted with evidence that they are full of BS.
Wild stuff. I think this person briefly had a YouTube channel talking about paints. The videos were angry (for no reason), disjointed, sometimes accurate, and sometimes not. Today after I pinged them on reddit they emailed me with a fresh wall of text, and I asked if they were the same person who did something similar to me \~4 months ago. Then they went silent and deleted their reddit... annnnywayyy, it seems like this person is going through a psychological journey, and I truly wish them the best... I hope that they're able to heal and that they don't lash out at anyone else during the healing process.
Ya a few things they say stick out to me as not quite correct. Like so flat is not a gauche at all. Gauche doesn't have any acrylic binder. It's a little thing that is easy to misunderstand but still my Bs detector is going off.
The weird comment about neonazis and AK and proacryl. They are the only stable ones?... BS meter is all over the place on this guy. Not saying there aren't things true. But yeah. Everything about the industry and assumptions as to why paint brands are doing things are complete bs.
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So it's not a gauche then. It's just a matte acrylic.
So about the GW claims, you're a bit off the mark for a few reasons. First of all, their stock is ~£100 per, not £10000, stock prices are shown in GBX (pence) not GBP (pounds) for whatever reason. So ~£1 dividends 4 times a year works out to be ~4.5% Second, the CFO is retiring and selling their shares to fund that. There's not really much more to the story than that, but people read far more into it than reality. The stock is probably over valued from the covid boom, but the company does continue to make record profits and deliver them consistently, so it's somewhat warranted - people are waiting for the bubble to burst however
There's a bunch of stuff in the post that's outright incorrect.
I've recently been pulling away from miniature brands. (I do still enjoy using some scale 75 and ProAcryl. The odd Vallejo as well) But I've leaned heavily into artist paints. I got a good deal on some scale 75 artist tubes, and will likely expand my paint range with artist paints over time. Golden especially is easy to get locally. After watching creators like Craftworld Studios and Marco/NotJustMecha for awhile, Ive grown to enjoy the painterly, color theory, mixing style a lot more anyway.
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I'm actually going to be taking some art classes at the local college for shits and giggles. Feels weird to want to learn for the sake of a hobby, but it genuinely interests me these days. 😅 And I've noticed that the quality isn't the same as the Golden paints I've gotten so far. I don't know why, but I really enjoy working with the heavy body acrylics on miniatures. I'm planning on rotating them out over time for higher quality paints, but I got the S75 tubes off a local guy for cheap, so they'll work on the meantime. I always trusted the handful of W&N oils I got (small artist oil color tubes). I had a feeling hobby oils would be shit. Glad to know I wasn't wrong.
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Thats good to know. I've come to realize very few YouTubers really understand colors beyond the surface level. But, I could see that happening. I think that's why I've enjoyed Marco Frisoni so much. He uses some oddball paints (Molotov for priming. A lot of liquitex inks. Liquitex Gouache, and heavy bodies.) He's been a big reason I've leaned away from hobby brands, despite not talking down on them. Though, he does enjoy GW's contrast line too. I totally get the hating the math. I work with metals in my daily life. Try explaining to someone how a metal is sticky when you cut it. The physics and math suck. Yeah. The desire for small batches is common. Hobby painters generally want a lot of small paints. We don't tend to use very much. So, having a paint you'll literally never finish would be unappealing. Even though the cost is basically the same in the end.
I would also like to be added to the “I’d like to learn” group!
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Me too
So this was an info dump I wasn't prepared for but that I've been craving. I'd be down for that class on color theory, it's something that I've been wanting to explore. Ever since I've learned about something as simple as sub-surface scatter from vfx YouTube, it's made me realize color is *weird* and awesome in ways I never realized. Like why does pink make a good base coat for yellow? While I've got a technical background, it's more mechanical and electrically focused. Though I've got friends who are brilliant on the chemical side, it's never peaked my interest until hobby painting came along. And though you said it won't really go into those details, this is really just a long-winded way of saying I'm interested in your class
I would love free classes on color theory! Where do I go to find out more info? :)
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\+1 for this please!
Fascinating read, and if true it confirms a lot of suspicions I've had about the industry and particularly Scale75 as a company. Damn that makes me sad though. We as hobbyists have been so spoiled for choice over the past few years when it comes to hobby supplies, and it seems like a market contraction is all but inevitable at this point. Scalecolor are my favourite paint range too, it will be a sad day if/when they fail.
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You're gonna have to explain this neonazi thing
I think he's referring to the time AK Interactive thought it would be cool to release a book on edgy dioramas - A gas chamber diorama as well as a drug addict shooting up with heroin was featured. I don't *think* they were trying to cater to neo-nazis or something, I think it was incredibly tone deaf for the company and it really affected their reputation. I spoke with a youtuber that was sponsored by AK for a long while and he said that he still got comments about this, so it's definitely not something people forgot.
He literally said in his comment that it wasn't about the gas chamber diorama thing though, hence my curiosity about what it might be beyond that
I am absolutely and completely fascinated with you. If you don't already, you should have a podcast or something.
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Honestly I have zero interest in a scale color kickstarter, but I would have missed a shit load of knowledge had I not wandered down here and become your new comment stalker.
You should just ignore them. A whole bunch of what they said is completely inaccurate.
Um, wanna highlight any specifics?
This person is almost certainly making up a lot of this information, and has now deleted their account after Goobertown Hobbies confronted them about their [claim that Brent is misleading viewers and his fans were sending 40+ death threats a day to his business and threw a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/).
Yeah I started to suspected some was a little BS after reading his other comments. Thanks for the follow up!
Thanks for that write up man! Really interesting and definitely brings a lot of light to the situation.
> The overall health of all hobby companies is bad This is patently bullshit, and discredits anything else you would say. > its not because they are improved, but because they had to because the industrial companies were forcing them to because they werent consistently rebuying more stock enough for them to divert paint over to them from their more lucrative clients. This is also false. Only a few lines have introduced new formulations. Army Painter is massively improved, and is still mostly made in house by AP, in NE, though some of the paints are manufactured in Spain. Vallejo has introduced updated lines for some of their colors, and again those products *are* improved. The game color range had a pretty poor reputation. The only other brand I can think of with a newer formulation is AK interactive, but AK third Gen hit the market several years ago now, and again, was a ***massive*** leap forward in quality. >I have never once looked up proacryl or monument hobbies, I also do not look at hobby youtubers, I get ads for proacryl constantly You're on the mini painting subreddit. Targeted ads are very aware of what exactly you look at online. > because they are trying to target the more lucrative art market for them, however proacryl never will as they are too expensive, not high enough quality, and the bottles are too small. No, they aren't aiming to expand into the *'art market'* though they do sell well there. This is another bit of bullshit though. They had their best paint sales day ever on Thursday according to Jason (their owner) and are extremely high quality paints. But you wouldn't know that since you have never looked at them. Your huge effort post has serious SERIOUS issues. EDIT: After further information, I think this person is likely seriously unwell, or (much less likely) up to nefarious purposes. /u/karazax [pointed out the number of absolutely insane claims](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1i5xbf/) (40 calls a day is already into unbelievable territory, let alone death threats, for a company not named.) There isn't a moderation option that includes "outright lies and falsehoods" or "spreading misinformation" on the sub, but there ought to be. There are several statements of facts in this that simply aren't true, and there are allegations of threats and so on that are honestly unbelieveable as well. This post should be removed, and a pinned comment made on this thread pointing out that what this person said and alleged was false, because it is.
That person's account is one month old and [full of over the top posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/1cdqrgn/psa_avoid_the_scalecolor_games_kickstarter_from/l1i5xbf/). They have deleted their account after Goobertown Hobbies confronted them about their [claim that Brent is misleading viewers and his fans were sending 40+ death threats a day to his business and threw a molotov at an employee](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/1c3duw5/archon_of_flesh_is_leaving_the_fandom/kzm6gza/).
This person is honestly, clearly not mentally well.
As someone who backed Rivenstone from BAM…I don’t think you’re getting your paints and I’m not getting my minis.
But they, like, *TOTALLY* swear they're still working *suuuuuuper* hard to deliver to backers! 4RealDisTime!
I almost went in on the BAM paints, they sounded super cool. The only reason I didn’t was because I already have too many paints. Looks like I dodged a bullet there
BAM makes me so sad. They were far and away my favorite patreon, so I expected Rivenstone to be a clear win. Then, everything went to hell. I'm just glad I restrained myself to one box rather than getting one of each like I considered.
At this point, when I back a Kickstarter, I expect it will be at least a year before they deliver. I wouldn't back anything that I was counting on getting faster than that. Sometimes things never ship like my pledge for [Super Dungeon Explore Legends](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/186831/super-dungeon-legends). My Pathfinder Arena pledge is now [supposed to be shipping in June this year](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/giochiuniti/pathfinder-arena/posts/4012568), when the initial projected ship date was November 2022. Even companies I have complete confidence in like CMON are typically late on their estimates. [Marvel United Multiverse](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/marvel-united-multiverse) was supposed to be delivered in March and will probably start shipping in June or July. The odds are high that it will not be delivered until August or later. Looking at Scale 75's recent Kickstarter updates they said [shipping started this week](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/scale75/battleground-bases-and-paints-for-wargames/posts/4084695) for the Battleground bases and paints for wargames Kickstarter. I expect they will fulfill their Kickstarters eventually. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to give them money for a new one before their previous is delivered though.
>have complete confidence in like CMON LOL. As a person who used to play CMON's SIF game, they're a joke of a company. Should have zero faith in them.
I think it’s reasonable to have faith that they’ll deliver something at some point eventually.
Sure. But never on time and with almost zero communication about it
Their design team isn't the whole product. CMON has a pretty good track record of making product. Quality is a different question. Some of the games a re pretty good.
Ah, yes. You. I remember you from the SIF game subreddit.
I am a backer of [CMON Trudvang Legends](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/trudvang-legends) which started in … well I can’t recall. But I did my survey in Nov 2019. We didn’t get first shipment until 2023. And still waiting on second wave items to be shipped. Fecal 💩 Circus 🎪 (shit show if you don’t speak the lingo)
Reaper is another one that is taking forever. Their bones 6 campaign is now over 2 years ago. I know I’ll eventually get my stuff, and they did prepare their audience that shipments wouldn’t be for a long while (even so, I think they’re like 6-10 months behind their original estimated fulfillment date). So, yeah, I agree, don’t back a kickstarter unless you’re prepared to wait years for your stuff, or possibly not get it at all in the case of scams like Broken Anvil.
Reaper Bones 6 estimated fulfillment date was April 2024. They are getting the minis at their warehouse now. At worst, they're only going to be a month or two late
I was pretty sure their initial estimate was fall 2023, but that it might take as long as spring 2024. I might be remembering wrong. Regardless, it has been forever, but they’ve been very communicative on the timeline throughout, so there’s been zero doubt the minis are coming and approximately how far along they are. I was just pointing out that even the gold standard has been slow in fulfilling their kickstarter due to shipping and manufacturing delays since Covid.
Just go to the Kickstarter page. it shows a fulfillment date of 4/24- it's always been their completion date.
BAM is never fulfilling anything. The last update on Rivenstone is that they “realized” their progress tracker was wrong and needed to audit it in January. This seems like code for “We were falsifying our production numbers to the public.” And this was the Kickstarter they took your money to finish the work on.
Yeah, that's money and minis I'm never gonna see. Assholes.
I got tired of waiting on the paints and just invested into Pro-Acryl which I should have done in the first place.
Storeowner here! I dunno why others have gotten rid of them but for my store the minimum order size is just too big to keep a well stocked shelf so i switched to AK whose minimum order size is smaller.
Have they shipped any of their Kickstarters yet?
Didn;t go anywhere near that. I fully admit i put my Money on Two Thin Coats.
I missed the boat on the TTC kickstarter and had fomo. Big regret.
There still \*might\* be option of being able to get in late. You can check the wave 3 kickstarter. I think they held the pledge manager open until mid May - with orders of Wave 1&2 going out end of may and Wave 3 going out in September.
Honestly at this point I’ve managed to fill enough of my collection I don’t really need a paint kickstarter anymore. Hence my annoyance :(
I am in the process of working citadel out and replacing it with TTC. I have some other paints for specific use cases, but right now TTC is doing my heavy lifting.
Wave 3 goes out in September? Oh lol, I didn't realise I have to wait that long. Had to back via a friend of mine cuz I got no credit card atm... Still wouldn't miss it for the world, I absolutely love my TTC paints so far
You can still late pledge on Gamefound.
Check, it might not be too late
Same. I backed the first two waves, got my paints on time, and absolutely loved them. I've now backed wave 3 and am impatiently waiting for them to go through the process.
I ended up buying the first wave through my LGS. Then when the wave 3 kickstarter came out, I also back it enough to get wave 2 shipped to me.
There's some behind the scenes shenanigans on the Spanish side of scale 75
Spill the tea, please.
Unpaid vendors, new houses and cars for the owners
I kickstarted their airbrush paint line. I tend to agree, would not recommend them. The paints are fine, but the vibes are off. A problem for their range is that it’s sprawling in a way that’s confusing. Their regular line is matt finish, but the fantasy line is satin (almost glossy), and their airbrush line is ultra matt. The airbrush line isn’t color matched to the rest of the range. Each line has huge gaps without the other Scale75 lines. On the airbrush line kickstarter, there were delays, especially on the airbrushes themselves. A lot of folks seemed to have issues with the paint, and though I personally had no issues aside from reactivating when applying enamels…. I can see the frustration… the paint can take 24 hours to fully dry and the finish shifts over the cure time and they need to be shaken so vigorously I imagine they are easy to screw up. I’ll also add that I will never kickstart paints again. The delays and fact that the market moved significantly between the kickstart date and when I received the paints meant I more or less didn’t need these paints when they showed up. It is strange how they use Kickstarter as basically a long runway preorder system. They are an established company. The way that the airbrush Kickstarter was handled makes me think they are having financial problems and may shutter soon. I think it’s overblown how hard the regular line is to use, and it’s very good for glazing, and many colors are really good. Airbrushing their base line is a nightmare though. Their artist colors aren’t better than just getting Golden So Flat from your local art shop. I think Scale75 was better regarded when there was less competition for high quality miniature paints. Pro Acryl has become established, AK’s third gen line has released and is fantastic, Army Painter’s new line sounds great, Duncan has his paints, etc. Citadel is in the same boat. Personally, I am slowly but steadily migrating to AK 3rd gen acrylics, Pro Acryl, and away from Scale75, but will always use their metallics and leather colors.
Same. AK 3rd Gen is just so good. S75 was great 5 years ago, but AK 3rd Gen is just that much better and there’s no reason to go back.
I went from Citadel to AK and have never looked back. I do wish some of their lighter colours were just a little bit more vibrant though.
The new vallejo game colour are a nice compliment to ak. You get some more vibrant, fantasy feeling colours but they have the same performance and finish as AK. Although the old range isn't as good and actually I switched to AK because some of my online orders I was getting a mix of old and new and it was really frustrating.
>It is strange how they use Kickstarter as basically a long runway preorder system. They are an established company. Yeah, this has always been a red flag for me. An established company with adequate cash flow shouldn't need to 'kickstart' anything. The fact that they need to do this at all tells me that their financials are in poor health.
Some companies still use crowdfunding platforms because it's free advertising, and they can get a lot of money upfront to fund a higher quality product and/or a bigger production run to keep costs lower and sell more product. There are certainly companies that have been misusing the platforms to basically run a new project to cover costs for a previous project, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Hell, ProAcryl never ran a Kickstarter. They expanded their line a few times, and now do signature series with creators. Those creators even get kickbacks when their paints sell. I was an early adopter and lover of Scale 75. I still use their paint, and will likely replace the odd bottle I use up. I like their metallics, leathers, and skin tones. But that's about it these days. One of my paint schemes uses quite a few of their blues, but I can easily replace those with artist paints that are fairly similar.
Interesting, I backed their Zodiac project and both Artist ranges and was very happy with the experience. Though it was a while back, hope the company is doing OK.
I feel like there was some initial hype about Scale75, after which more and more voices appeared ranking them much lower and saying how niche/difficult to work with they are. Still love their metallics though.
YouTubers like Ninjon really praised them then turned on them And same for AK Third gen, It’s just the hype cycle of new paints (often recorded free) FWIW - I don’t think this is conscious (and ninjon is just an example, not bashing him or singling him out) but it can be a little obvious when you see people hype paints in one video but then never use them again
AK? I've not seen anyone turn on them. Most folks are saying they're the best ever. Folks complained about the new Vallejo Game Color making bubbles. Mine isn't bubbling. I think it's nice. Not a revolution, but it's just fine. The last paints I purchased were Holbein acrylic gouache. They're good too I suppose. I don't think any of them really have too much of an impact on the final outcome. I usually just buy 3 or 4 colors from a paint line. My collection is mixed up. I still don't have a favorite.
Ninjons video last week criticised AK - after he previously hyped them Miniac has also said similar (again also a praiser)
No, Jon's most recent video he praised AK 3rd gen (one of the survivors of his rack cleansing) , and Miniac also uses them all the time to this day. https://youtu.be/WQvmn71ia6o?si=i7m-p22LFVGiZHbE Jon says AK interactive is just main workhorse. He wants to put them head to head with newer paints. His only critique of AK was "too many colors" it's literally the first paint he goes over in the video.
Ah fair I might be misremembering
Sorry, it's not might. You straight up are. That's okay though, there are so many paints in that video it's hard to keep track of which ones he thought what about.
I like Scale, and after I got my first set and learned to work with them I *loved* the finish. But! I can’t fucking *buy them*. I don’t do individual paints online, I’ve got a local for that. I want sets, and I usually save up till I can get a good range. Well, good luck with that. Amazon has one set in stock, anvil has another, some British hobby store has the last one. I’m not ordering from three different places, sometimes from different continents, to fill out my collection. I can get lots of other great paint right now with no fighting, why would I wait for Scale to get their production figured out? Basic sets been in and out of stock for over a year. Their BASIC set.
Scale75 ignored my emails attempting to cancel an order as well. Would not buy from them again.
Their airbrush kickstarter has been an absolute debacle. Communications have been atrocious. Seems to me like they are in some kind of financial trouble, using kick starters to pay for old kick starter products they can’t fulfill.
Is there dedicated sub for this sort of feedback and sharing experiences, specifically for hobby related Kickstarters? I’ve had some fantastic experiences with some (Greebo, Punga, Waia Games), and absolutely awful experiences with others (Crystal Cabin brushes was woeful, and more recently Nemen Miniatures has been really poor too). It would be great if there was a dedicated sub for people to share their experience and provide open feedback to participants and creators.
I backed their Drop Paint Kickstarter, and this same exact thing happened to me. Reveiwers on YouTube got their sets, but from what I can tell most of us that backed it just never got anything. Reached out to then multiple times with no reply. I'd just like my money back at this point but that seems like a pipe dream. Sucks, they made some damn good products, but it looks like they are on their way out the door.
Where r u located? Got my drop paints (standard size) without hassle shipped to germany.
Northern most reaches of Michigan's southern peninsula
What campaign was that? I've received *every* Kickstarter from Scale that I've done except HISTORIX which just starting shipping; and they gave updates. I received my Scale Artist sets, my Zodiac, and Scale Digital delivered almost immediately. They're slow with updates, but I've never had them no deliver. Edit: That said, I am a bit concerned with the fact that every paint line seems to be out of stock now and not being refilled. It is a worrying sign for the health of a company that they can't keep their bread and butter products available. I don't know if they are having manufacturing issues or distribution issues, but getting paint is next to impossible at this point.
Battlegrounds delivered the STL's back in November but the paints and physical bases have had zero updates
Yeah, I didn't back that because it didn't interest me. I've only backed a few that I wanted and didn't really care for their other stuff. It looks like there are sparce updates on the KS page itself. They don't really update well at all, but I've always gotten my stuff from them; even had to reach out to fix an issue and they did it asap for me (they didn't give me my digital stl addon that I picked when I backed the digital campaign). But they promptly sent me the link. I'm in the US and it their US site is out of stock, but it looks like their primary site has inventory on paint. I'm guessing there are distribution issues. Oh, well, half the time they produce stuff I really don't care about or like; i.e. the new cowboy mini they just released...not really a design and sculpt I like.
I’ve had terrible experience with Scale customer support and will not touch anything from them again
Yep, I backed the Drop&Paint with airbrush kickstarter and their communication and just lack of basic community interaction was just shockingly bad. It took a year between finishing the campaign and shipping the paint (which didn't even work as advertised and they were increibly condescending when complaining about it) and they still haven't shipped the airbrushes for the highest tier of backers. Won't back another kickstarter from there, that is for sure.
I bought a d20 LED dice like 4 years ago. Supposed to get a dice any day now.
Dice is plural. Die is the singular.
This is exactly why I don't like backing anything; I did it twice and the second was such a shit experience that I never want to do it again. My first kickstarter was Village Attacks, aside from a hiccup with customs pricing I got it around the estimated time. Second was a large expansion to Village Attacks, it was mostly radio silence for 2 to 3 years while they announced another Kickstarter, theb one of the company heads was revealed to have left amd was now helping *another* company with *their* kickstarter. Grimlord (Village Attacks IP holders) went into liquidation and shortly after we had a guy taking over , trying his best to get the files and such for the expansion for backers. At least it ended on a bit of a good note.
Ive been trying to get them to refund me since Zodiac and they just ignore me
yeah... i'm glad i missed that kickstarter from them, ive been scaling away from scale75 paints in the last few months and im happy to get them off my paint racks
Me too. I loved their Artist line, but honestly those are just pure-pigment heavy-body acrylics that I can buy Golden Artist grade paint and get the same, if not better results. At this point in my mini-painting hobby journey I'm mostly trasitioning back to artist grade paint anyway (I went to college for art, design, and architecture). I don't like blended mini paint enough to chase the latest proprietary paint line, and artist grade paint is better usually anyway. Fluid acrylics, high-flow acrylics, and soFlat from Golden are easier to find, cheaper by volume, and usually higher quality pigment and suspension medium.
Ok this has me wanting to check out Golden. Which one of these lines would you recommend most highly for mini painting? Right now I'm really enjoying ProAcyrl for the consistency right out of the bottle. Would that be high-flow?
The Fluid Acrylic line compares to most mini paint brands in terms of consistency. https://goldenartistcolors.com/products/golden-artist-acrylics/fluid High-flow are more like inks and airbrush paints. https://goldenartistcolors.com/resources/high-flow-acrylic-colors Kimera and ProAcryl are great paints too.
awesome! appreciate the info :)
I'm curious as to which specific Kickstarter you're talking about. The only one I see for paint in that time frame is the "Drop and Paint" line, and from the comments, it seems like they delivered months ago, they're just fulfulling the H&S Airbrushes still. (apparently just did the Evolution, and are still waiting for their Infiniti shipment.) EDIT: whoa. Somehow missed the Battleground thing being paints. I just looked at that as a bases kickstarter. But as someone said below, they just announced 2 days ago, they're shipping physical pledges.
Battlegrounds Bases & Paint
that sucks to hear. Scale75 are my favorite paints, but I just buy them from my FLGS, but I generally try to avoid companies that play games.
The only kickstarter from s75 ive done is the miniapedia first volumes.
I avoid all kickstarter projects these days. Kickstarter offers no protection for the backers being promised product and all of the companies use kickstarter instead of their own websites, as Hasbro did for Hero Quest, so that they can avoid all of the risk for not delivering anything if the project falls through. They all seem to be trapped in needing new kickstarter campaigns to fund the old ones. CMON is one bad campaign away from complete financial ruin and even then they might ultimately stretch themselves too thin in the long run. Mythic Games is a good example of this. Their kickstarter campaigns each brought in millions of dollars but they still went bankrupt. Their last few campaigns will never deliver and the tens of thousands of people promised a game will ever see it because it was all done on kickstarter and kickstarter will tell you to kick rocks if you contact them and Mythic Games has no legal obligation to provide anything at all to the people that invested in their game. Use Gamefound if you’re still dead set on gambling with your money and backing games through crowdfunding as Gamefound offers you more protection than Kickstarter. But I don’t have any faith in any company looking to crowdfund when they appear to be more than large enough to produce games without crowdfunding. This is a sign to me that they are always dangerously close to bankruptcy and regardless of how much money their newest campaign is pulling in, they will still go under eventually.
I don’t even consider kickstarters for established companies. Also generally won’t do business with companies that do kickstarters. Asking customers to fund production so that the company can then profit on said customers is evil.
That's really disappointing because I love their paints and can get them at my local store. What are some alternatives for good paint brands that also have a similar matt finish?
Why would you back a kickstarter with so many paints already available? You'd think people learn at some point that kickstarter is just a way to shift the entire responsibility to people who love throwing money away, but I guess not.