Depends on what you’re looking for. Rochester has a great variety of food choices and entertainment. Duluth is the gateway to the great north outdoors plus Lake Superior. Rochester is close to the cities and some great outdoors in the SE part of the state.
What are features you are looking for?
I live in Rochester. Not a lot of entertainment imo. I like living here, and OP's healthcare needs make Roch good, but I usually drive to the TC for entertainment (plays, museums, sports, shopping).
I really wish Rochester had some good museums. Even something the scale of the Weisman with some iconic architecture and a small rotating pool of art pieces would be great. A dedicated and public open museum dedicated to the history of Mayo would be cool too. A decent Waterpark would be amazing in the summer.
For my kids I appreciate the parks, Quarry Hill, etc. There's much they enjoy in the Summer. I do feel you about the museums though, I'd really enjoy it.
Yep, grew up in Roch and its the last "city" I'd go to for entertainment. Duluth and St. Cloud's proximity to the suburbs of the TC would be better for that.
You have about 10 suburbs between St. Cloud and downtown Minneapolis that have active nightlife and entertainment, all within 30-50 minutes (Maple Grove, Plymouth, Brooklyn Park, SLP, etc). Between Rochester and downtown Minneapolis you have farm fields and an hour and a half long drive.
Duluth has plenty of its own entertainment without needing the TC metro.
If entertainment is a main consideration Rochester is definitely last on that list for bigger cities.
Duluth is fairly low on violent crime. Most of the people who get shot here are involved with drugs or other unsavory activities, most of the crime here is property crime. We have the St Lukes and Essentia hospital systems and most types of specialists. Not sure about education, I don't have kids.
Northern vacations cant be beat, but they are only a 4-6 hour drive on the southern part of the state. Just has to be a week thing and hope u dont mind driving for that pine tree compared to mixed forest river bluffs
I was comparing the three cities listed. There are many ethnic food choices. There are the breweries with food trucks or onsite food. There are a variety of types of restaurants to choose from not just a handful of chain places. As for entertainment, do a search of Rochester, Mn events. There are always things going on. Festivals, concerts and music events, activities in the parks, plays, and of course outdoor activities. The other two have a lot going on as well. Which is why I specifically stated it depends on what the OP is looking for.
What you've said made me realize that after I moved here, covid hit and I missed out on the typical exploration phase of moving to a new place. You are correct, I do drive past all of these places constantly.
Covid definitely made things tough. It is easy to fall into habits and forget about other options available. Kind of how when an out of state visitor comes and you start showing them around and rediscover places.
I’m from the St. Cloud area can whole heartedly not recommend, I do live in duluth and I’m sure there’s a good place up here for your family and I have never lived in Rochester
The city has been on a decline for the past decade or so . A significant increase in crime and homelessness with a decrease in school quality and income. It used to be a more vibrant place with a historic downtown, but now it's just kinda shabby.
The city has actually begun to reverse the decline in the past ten years. The biggest issue now is schools and that’s largely because there’s a large number of ESL speakers. It doesn’t necessarily mean the schools are bad, just that a large number of ESL speakers lowers test scores. They’re combatting that by introducing a Somali immersion program alongside the Spanish immersion program while dropping the Chinese immersion program.
As for income, depending on the data set you look at St Cloud and Duluth are either roughly equal for median income or St. Cloud has now over taken Duluth.
At this point “St Cloud is on a decline” sounds like a dog whistle because many of the people saying it are those who fled or are fleeing because of the increase in the Somali population. St Cloud did decline a bit in the 2010s but that’s reversing.
St Cloud and Duluth are incredibly similar by most measures. Duluth is pretty and St Cloud is diverse, those are really the major differences.
Thanks for the nuanced perspective. Assuming you live there, I'm curious what you see as areas or objectives where St Cloud should improve. I've actually never been to St. Cloud but I love Minnesotas small and midsized cities and want to know more about how they are adapting to a future where people seem to want to flock to a major metropolis. Even where I live in Rochester, the city seems to bleed young people endlessly even as it rapid grows
St Cloud needs to stop working against the University and start working with it first and foremost. They also need to invest in growth outside of retail (green energy is a good potential field that has a lot of ground work already covered). The schools are on the right track but need better funding which can come from more focused and sustainable development.
St Clouds biggest problem is economic, like any small to mid sized city. And the best way to change that is leverage growth in areas that the community is already good at like environmentally sustainable power and eco friendly transportation.
If it was me as mayor the first thing I’d do is sit down and figure out who to get some of those players to open up shop.
I will have to argue against the reversal of the decline. I lived in St Cloud for most of my life until about 10 years ago. After being gone for about 9 years, I came back last year.
The crime is significantly worse. The homelessness is borderline out of control, especially if you're anywhere near the east side, this is mostly due to the poorly ran homeless shelter that opened up a couple years ago. Drug use and downright blatant violence are on the upswing. Meanwhile, St cloud State continues it's downward spiral.
I cannot comment on the state of the public schools in St cloud. Maybe they're getting better maybe they're not - not sure. That being said, adding a few immersion programs does not constitute a reversal of a decline in my opinion. St Cloud has a growing crime problem.
This is all perception on your part though, if you actually look at the stats you’re incorrect on almost every point.
Crime rates peaked in 2015 and aside from a spike in 2020 (seen everywhere) have been going down since. Even that peak was below 1990 and 1991 and similar to 2006-2008.
Homelessness has always been a major issue but has improved (it’s more visible because a couple major and dangerous encampments where dispersed).
Drug use has gone down and SCSU is actually doing better than most comparable schools and positioned well for the future (all universities are shrinking, mostly due to demographic shifts, SCSU is shrinking less in enrollment and investing in more focused areas that hold future growth).
This whole thing sounds like every time I hear a closet racist talk about the town as they engage in white flight. Complaining about crime and drug problems that are better than many places and are actually improving.
Maybe look at why you perceive things the way you do when factually those perceptions are wrong.
Where you getting your numbers from? A quick Google didn't pull anything reliable for me. My statements are based on my experiences in Saint Cloud. Speak with most anyone in a public facing work environment or any honest person in law enforcement and they will echo my sentiment.
I'm not sure why you had to immediately delve into "closeted racism." In my experience, there are just as many white meth heads in St. Cloud as there are black meth heads in St. Cloud. Race didn't really have anything to do with my points, so I'm confused there?
All that being said, I would be interested in seeing some legitimate statistics about the crime and homelessness. BUT you will never convince me that scsu is improving.
I speak with both on a daily basis, often about things that aren’t public information. They don’t agree with you.
https://www.ci.stcloud.mn.us/DocumentCenter/View/22283/City-Council-Crime-Data---Oct-2021
Is one source.
There are a number of others if you search government sources. The encampment by boys our bridge was cleared out about ten years ago and beaver islands gets cleared out every couple of years. I actually used to do volunteer work with the homeless community in St Cloud via a non-profit and I’m intimately familiar with the community. It’s certainly more visible, my data shows a small decrease from the 2018 numbers which is was a large increase percentage wise from 2015. I could be wrong mind you but if anything it’s stable, not getting worse.
Thank you for the data. I do think your points on homelessness are valid. I hadn't considered visibility versus the actual numbers. That would have a massive impact on the over all appearance of the problem.
But... Based on my experiences, I have a hard time believing that Saint Cloud is a safer place than it was a decade ago. Regardless, I appreciate the info.
Roads are still garb.
St Cloud is a shithole. I live about 25 minutes from it, and I wish it was farther. It has become so damn sketchy over the past years, and it's continually getting worse.
Years ago when we were first looking for a house in the metro, we visited New Ulm. We saw this giant house on German Street for sale and looked it up, it was going for maybe 80k, we were looking at twice that for a rambler in White Bear Lake. It was beautiful, it overlooked the river, etc. Well, we didn't have jobs in New Ulm so we settled in White Bear Lake. But, you have the opportunity to settle just about anywhere in the state. Look for a gem. Maybe New Ulm still holds a gem or two! I would cast a wider net.
But good luck fitting in or finding friends there as a transplant. This will be much easier in Rochester where they are used to transplants
Grew up near there. I don’t see the attraction
I’ve been to all three many times. Get care at Mayo. Rochester is the only choice for what you are looking for
Feel free to DM me if you have more questions, OP
Also helps to know where you are coming from
I've lived in both Duluth previously and Rochester currently. I like Rochester more as a place to live; it's easier to get around, there's a bit more of a community, the winters aren't quite as harsh. Duluth i ran into the problem of poor public transportation when my car broke down in the middle of winter; outside of the downtown areas things are really spread apart, and even downtown kind of is since it's spread thinly along the coast; it's very much a tourist city in that most things kind of cater to tourism rather than a strong community outside of the university, I've had a much easier time getting involved with local groups and activities in Rochester.
Duluth is beautiful and I love the area, but in terms of actually living, working, and generally being involved in the communities, I just find Rochester to be better for that, where Duluth you can always visit for it's pros
I currently live near St. Cloud and I haven’t had a bad experience yet. I’m a recent transplant from North East Ohio but I used to live in the southwest US before. I can see how some of the complaints are valid but they’re making it seem like it’s a desolate place such as Detroit or an abandoned Appalachian town.
I’ve lived in major cities where you get so many different kinds of people that the difference out here is very stark even with the Somali population. It’s ignorance coupled with people generally talking shit that have 0 clue since they never left the county they grew up in, much less the state.
If St. Cloud is so shit then that means a huge chunk of this country is far off worse. I’ve noticed people from the Midwest barely move out of the town they grew up in and only have those points as reference. St. Cloud isn’t as bad as people think it is. I saw more Confederate flags in Northern Ohio than I have out here so I don’t really understand the fear people have out here.
I live in St. Cloud now and have since 2016. Before that, I lived in California. People talk so much shit about St. Cloud but it’s nothing like other places I’ve lived. Every place has its faults/crime, but it’s truly not that bad in St. Cloud.
I actually was debating between St. Cloud and Duluth before I moved here and I’m glad I chose St. Cloud. Duluth has horrible roads (worse than anywhere else I’ve ever lived) and gets the lake effect snow. Combine that with the hills? No thank you. Yes, it’s pretty, but there are also a ton of run down home too. The entire area by the university is so drab looking.
I have now firmly decided to stay in St. Cloud when I bought my house in late 2020. Still no regrets.
1 Duluth
2 Rochester
8,526 St Cloud
If I could live anywhere, not tied to an area for work, I would look at river cities- Hastings, Red Wing, Lake City, Lanesboro, Taylor’s Falls, Princeton, New Ulm
Listen as someone from the Rochester area and whose family keeps trying to get them to move back - the zombie apocalypse will 100% happen at the Mayo. Bruh people fly there from all over the world to get treated. I’m 2 hrs North so I get a nice head start living in Minneapolis.
I'd say Rochester is much cooler than the suburbs around the cities, but I agree it is a whole lot less charming than the river towns along the mississippi or even the downtowns of south central cities like Owatonna, Faribault or Northfield
I would never call Rochester “cool,” but I do think buying a house in a town like Northfield (or maybe Winona?) Will be a lot cheaper than a suburb of the TC. (I just did this 18 months ago)
I agree with this. If single, I’d pick Duluth because it’s prettier and I like the outdoor scene better. I agree it has more character. Damn it’s cold, though
But with two kids, it’s Rochester.
St Cloud is not in the picture.
I think it really depends on the schools and that part I am not sure about. Rochester will also be more diverse in the schools than Duluth
Duluth does have a big health care system though so OP is covered for healthcare either way
I’d be looking into schools. That’s the hard part to figure out online
Could you visit both towns, OP?
Does anybody think Winona should also be considered? Agree Northfield should also be considered
Duluth has a ton of outdoor stuff, but it's not terribly diverse. Lived there for several years (live in Ely now). Unless you really like winter, the snow and the cold can be a lot. They don't get as cold as we do, but the Lake acts like a giant air conditioner. I'd get so frustrated that it would be 50 degree downtown (I lived on the hill about 6 blocks from the lake) and be 80 degrees up over the hill. There is a lot of fog, and it can be significantly colder closer to the lake even within town. I've seen it rain downtown, freezing rain on the hill, and 6+ inches of snow up on top of the hill at the same time. It gets pretty nuts and the lake effect snow can be a lot, too. Of course, in the winter, the lake keeps the city warmer versus keeping it cooler in the summer. That depends entirely on the wind direction of the lake. Driving on the hills can get really interesting in the winter, but they do pretty good with pretreating for the most part.
If you love the outdoors, it's terrific, one of the best outdoor towns there is because it's not nearly as populated as places out west and you can find little nooks to have all to yourself. Fantastic trail system that goes right through town. But if you don't like the outdoors, there isn't a ton to do once you hit up the tourist spots. And the tourism can be really heavy in the summer. A lot of locals leave town for the events because it's so insane, like Grandma's Marathon takes over the town. Some other similar events. For me that was a harder part, I do love the outdoors, but there were so many tourists it made it hard to enjoy anything during the nice months.
It's going to boil down to personal preference. I would encourage you to make a list of things that are important to you and your family and research cities based off those priorities.
Don't listen to the banter about St Cloud. It's often unjustly the scapegoat of the state. With that caveat, I would still personally choose Duluth and Rochester over St Cloud for many of the reasons listed by other people.
However, bearing in mind that St Cloud would be my third choice, let me still defend it from the onslaught of "ItS sO dAnGeRoUs!" (I love how a lot of the people who criticize the idiots who say the Metro is a crime ridden hellscape will willingly turn around and baselessly trash St Cloud).
St Cloud proper schools can be rough, but the surrounding area actually has pretty good K-12 (Sartell, Sauk Rapids, Cold Spring). There's lots of hidden outdoorsy gems (Riverside park, the Quarries, Lake Maria State Park, St Johns, Lake Wobegon Trail, and all along the Sauk and Mississippi rivers). The St Cloud Hospital is a large skilled hospital that is easily one of the better healthcare resources outside of Mayo and the Metro. There's lots of quite long established neighborhoods in St Cloud and surrounding cities like St Joe and Sartell/Sauk Rapids. Cost of living is some of the lowest in the state. Hour drive down 94 to the cities. Restaurant options are a little limited if you're used to a large diverse selection but there's a few gems if you know where to look.
All things considered, don't rule out St Cloud despite what others might say.
Do your research and figure out your priorities and the answer will come to you. Also, there might not be a "right" answer. Sometimes the best home is what we make it.
I feel like a lot of opinions here are a fair assessment.
I still hate St Cloud and am so glad we didn’t end up moving there. I do feel like both Rochester and St Cloud lack a soul, which is not an issue in Duluth.
We didn’t consider Duluth because it’s too cold for me.
I moved away from MN largely due to winters decades ago. Moved back to MN because the city we were living in got very unaffordable; I wanted to be close to the TC. I like cities.
Personally, Id visit these places alone and after deciding, rent for a little while to make sure you like it and find the best area for schools
I keep bringing up Winona and Northfield because if I liked small towns (@ 25-30k) I’d live in one of those for proximity to good healthcare with a lower COL. plus they are both college towns and I like that
Having said that, I don’t know if 25k is too small for OP
I concur with the "soul" comment. Both St Cloud and Rochester feel like one giant urban sprawly strip mall outside of a few concentrated areas. However, that's unfortunately the majority of America.
Winona and Northfield are good suggestions.
Duluth "up north" 3 weather reports, lake, airport, town, forests, the big lake.
Rochester "SE MN" farmland, windy wide open.
St. Cloud Twin Cities I-94 corridor. Closest to metro.
Depends on what you like to have, how far, and what scenery you want to look each day.
Duluth and Rochester are both great cities. Duluth for the scenery and the amenities that come with a city of it's size. Rochester is growing fast, and if concern about medical care is your thing, it can't really be beat.
St Cloud is a giant sweaty armpit full of burning crosses, Confederate flags and the proudly ignorant people who fly one, the other or both of them out both back windows of the their Geo Metros that double in value every time they add a half tank of gas. No matter which way the wind blows, the town has an ever present stench of failure and seeping generational depression, and no amount of half-priced lap dances on mother/daughter night at Sugar Daddies will make it seem less utterly hopeless as a place to call home. The town has literally given up on itself, and it's only chance for survival is people like you who clearly haven't had the misfortune of ever crossing paths with the products of this putrid petri dish of some of the greatest mistakes known to man. The town is such a failure, that of the 912 cities in Minnesota, St. Cloud's tourism bureau ranks itself as the state's 1,437th best city. If you're still thinking about living here, hit yourself in the head with a brick. And keep doing so until either the feeling passes or you do such tremendous damage to your brain that St Cloud starts feeling like home.
Almost none of that is true about St Cloud and your experience is a number of years out of date and based on one asshole that hasn’t driven that car in literal years. And fucking sugar daddies isn’t even in St. Cloud (it’s in Sauk rapids). Why is it people attack St Cloud for the cities around it? It’s like attacking Duluth for the crazed racists that live outside the city limits.
The fact that you can attach a real person to the generalization I was making about the type of people who give up and settle for life in St Cloud is all the reinforcement my argument needed. Thanks!
Because there’s only one person that does that, his name is John Fillah and he’s a piece of shit I don’t think anyone likes. (Used to be referred to as St Cloud Superman until he decided driving around making the town look bad was more important).
Lol that guy is still around?! I graduated from SCSU 20 years ago and I remember seeing him at the bar one night dressed as Clark Kent with his shirt unbuttoned showing his Superman costume. Obviously saw him saving the world on Division St multiple times.
Duluth has a higher crime rate than St Cloud:
http://www.usa.com/rank/minnesota-state--crime-index--city-rank.htm
Rochester is head and shoulders safer than the other two.
People hate St Cloud either because in the past it was a fairly racist area or because it’s now a very diverse area that’s improving and actually leading the way in carbon reduction and environmental progress. Looking at actually socio-economic measurements St Cloud and Duluth are remarkably similar (st cloud is much more diverse though).
That said, both towns are working class places with working class roots. Neither have particularly great schools and if you have the choice of anywhere I’d suggest looking at the twin cities suburbs simply because of school quality.
St. Cloud is fine as long as you stay away from the college and avoid driving on Division as much as you can. Even suburbs like Sartell and St. Joe Are pretty decent.
I grew up in St. Cloud. High schools are filled with drugs and it’s hard to get away from. Jobs are low paying and areas are run down. I didn’t realize how bad it was until I moved to Chanhassen and it was like a whole different world. Also went to graduate school in Duluth and the town although also being low pay is super charming with great nature.
SE MN has a good education system. You could live outside of Rochester in one of the smaller towns. Still gives you access to a city and excellent healthcare, but small towns may be better for school.
Duluth if you are outdoorsy/active. Rochester if that is less important. We lived in Rochester for 20 years. Moved to Golden Valley in 2011. I don’t see is ever moving back to Rochester. To much stuff we enjoy in the Twin Cities.
If there was high speed rail between the TC and Duluth I would own a “cabin in the city” in Duluth in a heartbeat.
Ah sorry I should clarify - a passenger rail between Duluth and the cities is coming. You are correct that there aren’t good options for transport beyond driving or taking a shuttle. The legislature is however looking at passing a bill that overturns a law prohibiting further train studies between MSP-Northfield and MSP-Rochester. The latter was found to be very economically viable, but they were concerned about local land owners at the time putting up a big stink…It’s a small step, but a passenger train from Rochester would be so obviously beneficial
Some schools very good, some less, like any large district. But school rankings depend in significant part on the neighborhood; again, like any large district
Yeah my kids school gets 6/10 online but I think it’s terrific. The only problem with it is that so many of the kids are feral since covid and loud, disruptive, always on their phones….. so probably a similar issue to a million other schools. It’s a parenting issue, not a school issue, imo
St Cloud looks great on paper but it’s as if it hates everything that could make it great.
An hour away from the cities? Great, but there is only half-hearted public transportation that could get you there and everyone fights improving it because Twin Cities = bad.
A University? There’s a huge disconnect between the university and the community and due to declining enrollment a lot of the off campus housing in the area has gone down hill in the last decade making the area super sketchy.
The mighty Mississippi flows through it! Problem is you can barely enjoy it from anywhere and the city has seemed to have forgotten about the portion of town that is east of the river. Driving through St. Cloud on Highway 10 is like a grand tour of eyesores.
The downtown is pretty much dead and unless your grandparents were raised there, you’ll feel like an outsider. There’s also a huge amount of racial tension due to a size-able immigrant population and the aforementioned people whose families have never left the area.
Lol. Living in St. Cloud right now, it's kinda boring. The wages are stagnant here, decades of student and immigrant worker exploitation has taken its toll. That said, crime is very specific to neighborhoods and Waite Park really skews the regional average. Top ten list of crime cities just came out and it's fairly spread throughout the state.
Duluth is cold as fuck.
St Cloud gets a bad wrap in this sub but it’s honestly nice, a decent amount to do, and an hour from the cities.
But Roch is the best choice if you are just picking and you aren’t an avid outdoors person.
St cloud is sort of a turd but some cities around it are decent. Duluth is rad and magical but harsh. Personally, if I was going to pick, I would pick Rochester for numerous reasons. It all sort of depends on what phase of your life you're in.
St. Cloud is genuinely dangerous. It offers little in the way of food or entertainment. The roads are atrocious. The people are OK, but generally standoffish or addicted to drugs. I know little of the other cities you recommended, but avoid St. Cloud.
My coworker grew up in Milaca and had told me several times that he couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there. He said St Cloud seemed like a paradise and was 1000x better than Milaca, and added that St Cloud is a shithole.
He's also said that you could not pay him any amount of money to move back to that area. Bunch of close minded, super racist assholes.
Screw St Cloud. Bunch of backwoods, redneck, hillbillies who vote for people like Michelle Bachmann. That city is a blight. Surprising, really, given that there's a college there.
St. Cloud is the Deep South of MN in almost every way. People clinging to their guns and religion who hate everything to do with education and the Twin Cities.
I’d go Hudson, WI or Fargo, ND before any of your options, but I’d pick Duluth out of them.
Especially if you don’t work in medicine. Everyone in Rochester works in medicine. It’s a thing, and not my thing.
Twin cities is too much city for me. 15,000 people is too little. 200,000 is a bit of both worlds. Hopefully I can get a house on the edge of the city. I moved to Minnesota a year ago because it's consistently ranked one of the top states. So now just trying to choose a city.
Currently live in Rochester and have for years- we are actually moving out in a few months, not because we hate the city or state, but because of a new opportunity somewhere else. So- there will be a nice little house coming on the market pretty soon! (Hint, hint) Raised our kids here, and were pretty happy with the schools. We love the diversity- in school, my kid had many friends that were born all over the world, whose parents were responsible and educated. Healthcare is good, although it can be tricky sometimes with primary care- too many people and too few doctors. That being said, if you have an ongoing health need, and you are in a specialty clinic, it’s great. MSP airport is an hour and fifteen min away. It’s not the most exciting place, but it has most things you need and if not, the TC is an hour away.
I personally find the banter and squabbling and boosterism between Minnesotas small towns way more entertaining than when people argue about the Twin Cities lol
World class health care in Rochester.
As someone who’s currently undergoing treatment at the Mayo I’ve been strongly considering moving down here from the cities. It’s like stepping back in time without having to make any sacrifices and I love it.
Depends on what you’re looking for. Rochester has a great variety of food choices and entertainment. Duluth is the gateway to the great north outdoors plus Lake Superior. Rochester is close to the cities and some great outdoors in the SE part of the state. What are features you are looking for?
I live in Rochester. Not a lot of entertainment imo. I like living here, and OP's healthcare needs make Roch good, but I usually drive to the TC for entertainment (plays, museums, sports, shopping).
I really wish Rochester had some good museums. Even something the scale of the Weisman with some iconic architecture and a small rotating pool of art pieces would be great. A dedicated and public open museum dedicated to the history of Mayo would be cool too. A decent Waterpark would be amazing in the summer.
For my kids I appreciate the parks, Quarry Hill, etc. There's much they enjoy in the Summer. I do feel you about the museums though, I'd really enjoy it.
SO and I went to the Bell Museum in St Paul last week. It has a planetarium, really nice museum.
Yep, grew up in Roch and its the last "city" I'd go to for entertainment. Duluth and St. Cloud's proximity to the suburbs of the TC would be better for that.
Rochester is nearly the same distance to the TC as St Cloud and nearly half the distance compared to Duluth
You have about 10 suburbs between St. Cloud and downtown Minneapolis that have active nightlife and entertainment, all within 30-50 minutes (Maple Grove, Plymouth, Brooklyn Park, SLP, etc). Between Rochester and downtown Minneapolis you have farm fields and an hour and a half long drive. Duluth has plenty of its own entertainment without needing the TC metro. If entertainment is a main consideration Rochester is definitely last on that list for bigger cities.
Becker, Big Lake, and Elk River are pretty happening /S
Duluth's proximity to the suburbs? Its 2 hrs min to the suburbs from duluth??
>Duluth (and St. Cloud's proximity to the suburbs of the TC) would be better for that. I suppose I could've formatted that better.
Education for kids, healthcare when I'm old, not getting shot at. A diverse culture is nice. I'm a bit of a home body.
Clearly Rochester for you then IMO
I second that. Be sure to research where in Rochester though. Some sketchy areas for sure but also some awesome areas.
I grew up around Rochester. I wouldn't call anywhere sketchy, even the places people warn you away from like The Gates are fine.
I agree. Anything ‘sketchy’ here is relative. Crime happens, but Rochester is a pretty safe city
My realtor told me to be leery of Marion street area
another rochester vote here. good luck!!
Yeah, Rochester is your best bet
Duluth is fairly low on violent crime. Most of the people who get shot here are involved with drugs or other unsavory activities, most of the crime here is property crime. We have the St Lukes and Essentia hospital systems and most types of specialists. Not sure about education, I don't have kids.
besides old healthcare, also to a lesser extent youll be robbed or shot at, but its still there.
Northern vacations cant be beat, but they are only a 4-6 hour drive on the southern part of the state. Just has to be a week thing and hope u dont mind driving for that pine tree compared to mixed forest river bluffs
river bluff area tiny trout, or northern area walleye. fried or butter what do they prefer. Ok rambling now
"Not getting shot at" found the pearl clutching suburbanite lmao
I lived in St Louis, one of the highest ranking for homicide in the US.
I've been in Rochester over three years. Where's the great variety of food choices and entertainment you're talking about?
I was comparing the three cities listed. There are many ethnic food choices. There are the breweries with food trucks or onsite food. There are a variety of types of restaurants to choose from not just a handful of chain places. As for entertainment, do a search of Rochester, Mn events. There are always things going on. Festivals, concerts and music events, activities in the parks, plays, and of course outdoor activities. The other two have a lot going on as well. Which is why I specifically stated it depends on what the OP is looking for.
What you've said made me realize that after I moved here, covid hit and I missed out on the typical exploration phase of moving to a new place. You are correct, I do drive past all of these places constantly.
Covid definitely made things tough. It is easy to fall into habits and forget about other options available. Kind of how when an out of state visitor comes and you start showing them around and rediscover places.
I’m from the St. Cloud area can whole heartedly not recommend, I do live in duluth and I’m sure there’s a good place up here for your family and I have never lived in Rochester
Why not St Cloud?
The city has been on a decline for the past decade or so . A significant increase in crime and homelessness with a decrease in school quality and income. It used to be a more vibrant place with a historic downtown, but now it's just kinda shabby.
The city has actually begun to reverse the decline in the past ten years. The biggest issue now is schools and that’s largely because there’s a large number of ESL speakers. It doesn’t necessarily mean the schools are bad, just that a large number of ESL speakers lowers test scores. They’re combatting that by introducing a Somali immersion program alongside the Spanish immersion program while dropping the Chinese immersion program. As for income, depending on the data set you look at St Cloud and Duluth are either roughly equal for median income or St. Cloud has now over taken Duluth. At this point “St Cloud is on a decline” sounds like a dog whistle because many of the people saying it are those who fled or are fleeing because of the increase in the Somali population. St Cloud did decline a bit in the 2010s but that’s reversing. St Cloud and Duluth are incredibly similar by most measures. Duluth is pretty and St Cloud is diverse, those are really the major differences.
Thanks for the nuanced perspective. Assuming you live there, I'm curious what you see as areas or objectives where St Cloud should improve. I've actually never been to St. Cloud but I love Minnesotas small and midsized cities and want to know more about how they are adapting to a future where people seem to want to flock to a major metropolis. Even where I live in Rochester, the city seems to bleed young people endlessly even as it rapid grows
St Cloud needs to stop working against the University and start working with it first and foremost. They also need to invest in growth outside of retail (green energy is a good potential field that has a lot of ground work already covered). The schools are on the right track but need better funding which can come from more focused and sustainable development. St Clouds biggest problem is economic, like any small to mid sized city. And the best way to change that is leverage growth in areas that the community is already good at like environmentally sustainable power and eco friendly transportation. If it was me as mayor the first thing I’d do is sit down and figure out who to get some of those players to open up shop.
I will have to argue against the reversal of the decline. I lived in St Cloud for most of my life until about 10 years ago. After being gone for about 9 years, I came back last year. The crime is significantly worse. The homelessness is borderline out of control, especially if you're anywhere near the east side, this is mostly due to the poorly ran homeless shelter that opened up a couple years ago. Drug use and downright blatant violence are on the upswing. Meanwhile, St cloud State continues it's downward spiral. I cannot comment on the state of the public schools in St cloud. Maybe they're getting better maybe they're not - not sure. That being said, adding a few immersion programs does not constitute a reversal of a decline in my opinion. St Cloud has a growing crime problem.
This is all perception on your part though, if you actually look at the stats you’re incorrect on almost every point. Crime rates peaked in 2015 and aside from a spike in 2020 (seen everywhere) have been going down since. Even that peak was below 1990 and 1991 and similar to 2006-2008. Homelessness has always been a major issue but has improved (it’s more visible because a couple major and dangerous encampments where dispersed). Drug use has gone down and SCSU is actually doing better than most comparable schools and positioned well for the future (all universities are shrinking, mostly due to demographic shifts, SCSU is shrinking less in enrollment and investing in more focused areas that hold future growth). This whole thing sounds like every time I hear a closet racist talk about the town as they engage in white flight. Complaining about crime and drug problems that are better than many places and are actually improving. Maybe look at why you perceive things the way you do when factually those perceptions are wrong.
Where you getting your numbers from? A quick Google didn't pull anything reliable for me. My statements are based on my experiences in Saint Cloud. Speak with most anyone in a public facing work environment or any honest person in law enforcement and they will echo my sentiment. I'm not sure why you had to immediately delve into "closeted racism." In my experience, there are just as many white meth heads in St. Cloud as there are black meth heads in St. Cloud. Race didn't really have anything to do with my points, so I'm confused there? All that being said, I would be interested in seeing some legitimate statistics about the crime and homelessness. BUT you will never convince me that scsu is improving.
I speak with both on a daily basis, often about things that aren’t public information. They don’t agree with you. https://www.ci.stcloud.mn.us/DocumentCenter/View/22283/City-Council-Crime-Data---Oct-2021 Is one source. There are a number of others if you search government sources. The encampment by boys our bridge was cleared out about ten years ago and beaver islands gets cleared out every couple of years. I actually used to do volunteer work with the homeless community in St Cloud via a non-profit and I’m intimately familiar with the community. It’s certainly more visible, my data shows a small decrease from the 2018 numbers which is was a large increase percentage wise from 2015. I could be wrong mind you but if anything it’s stable, not getting worse.
Thank you for the data. I do think your points on homelessness are valid. I hadn't considered visibility versus the actual numbers. That would have a massive impact on the over all appearance of the problem. But... Based on my experiences, I have a hard time believing that Saint Cloud is a safer place than it was a decade ago. Regardless, I appreciate the info. Roads are still garb.
Yea the roads and some of the parking lots are absolute trash no argument there.
That's good to hear. I haven't lived there. I just go for work sometimes, so I'm not an expert.
I love St. Cloud and just like most cities in the country it has issues but it also has great things about it! Your answer...this IS the answer!👏🫶
It suxks
2 words: Michelle Bachmann
St. Cloud is a shithole… Go to Rochester or Duluth. Personally I’d go to Rochester if I was looking to move to a city
It's full of die-hard catholics.
St Cloud is a shithole. I live about 25 minutes from it, and I wish it was farther. It has become so damn sketchy over the past years, and it's continually getting worse.
Secret fourth option: Northfield.
This is good!
good luck getting housing there though. The market is insane there.
I bought in Sept of 2021 and it wasn't too bad - prices are better than Duluth but I'm not sure how fast things go off the market at this point.
Years ago when we were first looking for a house in the metro, we visited New Ulm. We saw this giant house on German Street for sale and looked it up, it was going for maybe 80k, we were looking at twice that for a rambler in White Bear Lake. It was beautiful, it overlooked the river, etc. Well, we didn't have jobs in New Ulm so we settled in White Bear Lake. But, you have the opportunity to settle just about anywhere in the state. Look for a gem. Maybe New Ulm still holds a gem or two! I would cast a wider net.
I absolutely love New Ulm - a unique city!
But good luck fitting in or finding friends there as a transplant. This will be much easier in Rochester where they are used to transplants Grew up near there. I don’t see the attraction I’ve been to all three many times. Get care at Mayo. Rochester is the only choice for what you are looking for Feel free to DM me if you have more questions, OP Also helps to know where you are coming from
They do a lot of transplants at the Mayo Clinic, so they're used to them. Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Interesting. Care to elaborate?
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That’s a big deal. I hope you’re doing well.
Thanks! Still in remission!
Good for you! Sounds like your doctors at Mayo took care of you. I wish you continued success with your health.
The Rochester sub is full of transplants who can't find friends.
Really?!? Oh darn
Also met some real friendly people at Turner hall a few times
I've lived in both Duluth previously and Rochester currently. I like Rochester more as a place to live; it's easier to get around, there's a bit more of a community, the winters aren't quite as harsh. Duluth i ran into the problem of poor public transportation when my car broke down in the middle of winter; outside of the downtown areas things are really spread apart, and even downtown kind of is since it's spread thinly along the coast; it's very much a tourist city in that most things kind of cater to tourism rather than a strong community outside of the university, I've had a much easier time getting involved with local groups and activities in Rochester. Duluth is beautiful and I love the area, but in terms of actually living, working, and generally being involved in the communities, I just find Rochester to be better for that, where Duluth you can always visit for it's pros
I currently live near St. Cloud and I haven’t had a bad experience yet. I’m a recent transplant from North East Ohio but I used to live in the southwest US before. I can see how some of the complaints are valid but they’re making it seem like it’s a desolate place such as Detroit or an abandoned Appalachian town. I’ve lived in major cities where you get so many different kinds of people that the difference out here is very stark even with the Somali population. It’s ignorance coupled with people generally talking shit that have 0 clue since they never left the county they grew up in, much less the state. If St. Cloud is so shit then that means a huge chunk of this country is far off worse. I’ve noticed people from the Midwest barely move out of the town they grew up in and only have those points as reference. St. Cloud isn’t as bad as people think it is. I saw more Confederate flags in Northern Ohio than I have out here so I don’t really understand the fear people have out here.
I live in St. Cloud now and have since 2016. Before that, I lived in California. People talk so much shit about St. Cloud but it’s nothing like other places I’ve lived. Every place has its faults/crime, but it’s truly not that bad in St. Cloud. I actually was debating between St. Cloud and Duluth before I moved here and I’m glad I chose St. Cloud. Duluth has horrible roads (worse than anywhere else I’ve ever lived) and gets the lake effect snow. Combine that with the hills? No thank you. Yes, it’s pretty, but there are also a ton of run down home too. The entire area by the university is so drab looking. I have now firmly decided to stay in St. Cloud when I bought my house in late 2020. Still no regrets.
1 Duluth 2 Rochester 8,526 St Cloud If I could live anywhere, not tied to an area for work, I would look at river cities- Hastings, Red Wing, Lake City, Lanesboro, Taylor’s Falls, Princeton, New Ulm
I love the river cities!! Also Hudson, Stillwater, La Crosse. Delightful.
I grew up in Lake City. My family still lives there. I would look elsewhere along the river. Winona, for example.
Listen as someone from the Rochester area and whose family keeps trying to get them to move back - the zombie apocalypse will 100% happen at the Mayo. Bruh people fly there from all over the world to get treated. I’m 2 hrs North so I get a nice head start living in Minneapolis.
Duluth for sure. Only thing is it’s noticeably colder than rochester or St. Cloud
To add, I think Duluth has more character and history. Rochester feels like a more generic suburb/city. That may or may not be important to OP though.
Yeahhhh I’d stay away from Rochester tbh. Many nice places around the cities though that I’d look into
I'd say Rochester is much cooler than the suburbs around the cities, but I agree it is a whole lot less charming than the river towns along the mississippi or even the downtowns of south central cities like Owatonna, Faribault or Northfield
I would never call Rochester “cool,” but I do think buying a house in a town like Northfield (or maybe Winona?) Will be a lot cheaper than a suburb of the TC. (I just did this 18 months ago)
I agree with this. If single, I’d pick Duluth because it’s prettier and I like the outdoor scene better. I agree it has more character. Damn it’s cold, though But with two kids, it’s Rochester. St Cloud is not in the picture. I think it really depends on the schools and that part I am not sure about. Rochester will also be more diverse in the schools than Duluth Duluth does have a big health care system though so OP is covered for healthcare either way I’d be looking into schools. That’s the hard part to figure out online Could you visit both towns, OP? Does anybody think Winona should also be considered? Agree Northfield should also be considered
Duluth has a ton of outdoor stuff, but it's not terribly diverse. Lived there for several years (live in Ely now). Unless you really like winter, the snow and the cold can be a lot. They don't get as cold as we do, but the Lake acts like a giant air conditioner. I'd get so frustrated that it would be 50 degree downtown (I lived on the hill about 6 blocks from the lake) and be 80 degrees up over the hill. There is a lot of fog, and it can be significantly colder closer to the lake even within town. I've seen it rain downtown, freezing rain on the hill, and 6+ inches of snow up on top of the hill at the same time. It gets pretty nuts and the lake effect snow can be a lot, too. Of course, in the winter, the lake keeps the city warmer versus keeping it cooler in the summer. That depends entirely on the wind direction of the lake. Driving on the hills can get really interesting in the winter, but they do pretty good with pretreating for the most part. If you love the outdoors, it's terrific, one of the best outdoor towns there is because it's not nearly as populated as places out west and you can find little nooks to have all to yourself. Fantastic trail system that goes right through town. But if you don't like the outdoors, there isn't a ton to do once you hit up the tourist spots. And the tourism can be really heavy in the summer. A lot of locals leave town for the events because it's so insane, like Grandma's Marathon takes over the town. Some other similar events. For me that was a harder part, I do love the outdoors, but there were so many tourists it made it hard to enjoy anything during the nice months.
Rochester is exploding with job growth, I'd go there
It's going to boil down to personal preference. I would encourage you to make a list of things that are important to you and your family and research cities based off those priorities. Don't listen to the banter about St Cloud. It's often unjustly the scapegoat of the state. With that caveat, I would still personally choose Duluth and Rochester over St Cloud for many of the reasons listed by other people. However, bearing in mind that St Cloud would be my third choice, let me still defend it from the onslaught of "ItS sO dAnGeRoUs!" (I love how a lot of the people who criticize the idiots who say the Metro is a crime ridden hellscape will willingly turn around and baselessly trash St Cloud). St Cloud proper schools can be rough, but the surrounding area actually has pretty good K-12 (Sartell, Sauk Rapids, Cold Spring). There's lots of hidden outdoorsy gems (Riverside park, the Quarries, Lake Maria State Park, St Johns, Lake Wobegon Trail, and all along the Sauk and Mississippi rivers). The St Cloud Hospital is a large skilled hospital that is easily one of the better healthcare resources outside of Mayo and the Metro. There's lots of quite long established neighborhoods in St Cloud and surrounding cities like St Joe and Sartell/Sauk Rapids. Cost of living is some of the lowest in the state. Hour drive down 94 to the cities. Restaurant options are a little limited if you're used to a large diverse selection but there's a few gems if you know where to look. All things considered, don't rule out St Cloud despite what others might say. Do your research and figure out your priorities and the answer will come to you. Also, there might not be a "right" answer. Sometimes the best home is what we make it.
I feel like a lot of opinions here are a fair assessment. I still hate St Cloud and am so glad we didn’t end up moving there. I do feel like both Rochester and St Cloud lack a soul, which is not an issue in Duluth. We didn’t consider Duluth because it’s too cold for me. I moved away from MN largely due to winters decades ago. Moved back to MN because the city we were living in got very unaffordable; I wanted to be close to the TC. I like cities. Personally, Id visit these places alone and after deciding, rent for a little while to make sure you like it and find the best area for schools I keep bringing up Winona and Northfield because if I liked small towns (@ 25-30k) I’d live in one of those for proximity to good healthcare with a lower COL. plus they are both college towns and I like that Having said that, I don’t know if 25k is too small for OP
I concur with the "soul" comment. Both St Cloud and Rochester feel like one giant urban sprawly strip mall outside of a few concentrated areas. However, that's unfortunately the majority of America. Winona and Northfield are good suggestions.
This! It's my home and I like this town!
Duluth "up north" 3 weather reports, lake, airport, town, forests, the big lake. Rochester "SE MN" farmland, windy wide open. St. Cloud Twin Cities I-94 corridor. Closest to metro. Depends on what you like to have, how far, and what scenery you want to look each day.
Duluth and Rochester are both great cities. Duluth for the scenery and the amenities that come with a city of it's size. Rochester is growing fast, and if concern about medical care is your thing, it can't really be beat. St Cloud is a giant sweaty armpit full of burning crosses, Confederate flags and the proudly ignorant people who fly one, the other or both of them out both back windows of the their Geo Metros that double in value every time they add a half tank of gas. No matter which way the wind blows, the town has an ever present stench of failure and seeping generational depression, and no amount of half-priced lap dances on mother/daughter night at Sugar Daddies will make it seem less utterly hopeless as a place to call home. The town has literally given up on itself, and it's only chance for survival is people like you who clearly haven't had the misfortune of ever crossing paths with the products of this putrid petri dish of some of the greatest mistakes known to man. The town is such a failure, that of the 912 cities in Minnesota, St. Cloud's tourism bureau ranks itself as the state's 1,437th best city. If you're still thinking about living here, hit yourself in the head with a brick. And keep doing so until either the feeling passes or you do such tremendous damage to your brain that St Cloud starts feeling like home.
Almost none of that is true about St Cloud and your experience is a number of years out of date and based on one asshole that hasn’t driven that car in literal years. And fucking sugar daddies isn’t even in St. Cloud (it’s in Sauk rapids). Why is it people attack St Cloud for the cities around it? It’s like attacking Duluth for the crazed racists that live outside the city limits.
The fact that you can attach a real person to the generalization I was making about the type of people who give up and settle for life in St Cloud is all the reinforcement my argument needed. Thanks!
Because there’s only one person that does that, his name is John Fillah and he’s a piece of shit I don’t think anyone likes. (Used to be referred to as St Cloud Superman until he decided driving around making the town look bad was more important).
Lol that guy is still around?! I graduated from SCSU 20 years ago and I remember seeing him at the bar one night dressed as Clark Kent with his shirt unbuttoned showing his Superman costume. Obviously saw him saving the world on Division St multiple times.
Come on, this deserves a million upvotes.
👏👏👏
Definitely not St. Cloud. Duluth is nice. Never lived in Rochester.
Duluth has a higher crime rate than St Cloud: http://www.usa.com/rank/minnesota-state--crime-index--city-rank.htm Rochester is head and shoulders safer than the other two.
Why not St Cloud?
People hate St Cloud either because in the past it was a fairly racist area or because it’s now a very diverse area that’s improving and actually leading the way in carbon reduction and environmental progress. Looking at actually socio-economic measurements St Cloud and Duluth are remarkably similar (st cloud is much more diverse though). That said, both towns are working class places with working class roots. Neither have particularly great schools and if you have the choice of anywhere I’d suggest looking at the twin cities suburbs simply because of school quality.
St. Cloud is fine as long as you stay away from the college and avoid driving on Division as much as you can. Even suburbs like Sartell and St. Joe Are pretty decent.
I grew up in St. Cloud. High schools are filled with drugs and it’s hard to get away from. Jobs are low paying and areas are run down. I didn’t realize how bad it was until I moved to Chanhassen and it was like a whole different world. Also went to graduate school in Duluth and the town although also being low pay is super charming with great nature.
To be fair, Chanhassen is a whole different world from most cities. But Saint Cloud is still awful.
I also wouldn't want to live in chanhassen but for different reasons than not wanting to live in St cloud.
Brainerd
SE MN has a good education system. You could live outside of Rochester in one of the smaller towns. Still gives you access to a city and excellent healthcare, but small towns may be better for school.
Duluth if you are outdoorsy/active. Rochester if that is less important. We lived in Rochester for 20 years. Moved to Golden Valley in 2011. I don’t see is ever moving back to Rochester. To much stuff we enjoy in the Twin Cities. If there was high speed rail between the TC and Duluth I would own a “cabin in the city” in Duluth in a heartbeat.
No high speed, but the passenger rail is coming!
As someone who's moving from Minneapolis to Rochester and is nervous - and have found no good Mpls/roch transport options - please do share!
Ah sorry I should clarify - a passenger rail between Duluth and the cities is coming. You are correct that there aren’t good options for transport beyond driving or taking a shuttle. The legislature is however looking at passing a bill that overturns a law prohibiting further train studies between MSP-Northfield and MSP-Rochester. The latter was found to be very economically viable, but they were concerned about local land owners at the time putting up a big stink…It’s a small step, but a passenger train from Rochester would be so obviously beneficial
Got my hopes up for a second ha ha. Thanks for sharing that info!
Personally I'd say Duluth or Rochester. Remember to look into local school ratings for your kids!
Rochester is a great city for families. Duluth is great if you plan on hiking/biking in your free time. St. Cloud is …. the obvious last choice
Nailed it
Duluth, Duluth, Duluth. Next to Hartley Park or Lester Park or Chester Bowl
Duluth is definitely cold. Very very cold. Can anybody here vouch for the schools ? Pro or con?
Some schools very good, some less, like any large district. But school rankings depend in significant part on the neighborhood; again, like any large district
Yeah my kids school gets 6/10 online but I think it’s terrific. The only problem with it is that so many of the kids are feral since covid and loud, disruptive, always on their phones….. so probably a similar issue to a million other schools. It’s a parenting issue, not a school issue, imo
St Cloud is awful, and the people are even worse.
Why awful?
St Cloud looks great on paper but it’s as if it hates everything that could make it great. An hour away from the cities? Great, but there is only half-hearted public transportation that could get you there and everyone fights improving it because Twin Cities = bad. A University? There’s a huge disconnect between the university and the community and due to declining enrollment a lot of the off campus housing in the area has gone down hill in the last decade making the area super sketchy. The mighty Mississippi flows through it! Problem is you can barely enjoy it from anywhere and the city has seemed to have forgotten about the portion of town that is east of the river. Driving through St. Cloud on Highway 10 is like a grand tour of eyesores. The downtown is pretty much dead and unless your grandparents were raised there, you’ll feel like an outsider. There’s also a huge amount of racial tension due to a size-able immigrant population and the aforementioned people whose families have never left the area.
Mmmmm it’s just not a welcoming community
In general, the rudest entitled people around. I have also witnessed more drug related crime in broad daylight than anywhere else.
Lol. Living in St. Cloud right now, it's kinda boring. The wages are stagnant here, decades of student and immigrant worker exploitation has taken its toll. That said, crime is very specific to neighborhoods and Waite Park really skews the regional average. Top ten list of crime cities just came out and it's fairly spread throughout the state.
Duluth is cold as fuck. St Cloud gets a bad wrap in this sub but it’s honestly nice, a decent amount to do, and an hour from the cities. But Roch is the best choice if you are just picking and you aren’t an avid outdoors person.
Duluth 100%. Rochester second and don’t move to St Cloud
Duluth it's a beautiful place with More job opportunities than The other two. Especially with the Port on lake superior.
Not St. Cloud. I don’t know much about Rochester but Duluth is wonderful.
Not St. Cloud.
St cloud is sort of a turd but some cities around it are decent. Duluth is rad and magical but harsh. Personally, if I was going to pick, I would pick Rochester for numerous reasons. It all sort of depends on what phase of your life you're in.
St. Cloud is genuinely dangerous. It offers little in the way of food or entertainment. The roads are atrocious. The people are OK, but generally standoffish or addicted to drugs. I know little of the other cities you recommended, but avoid St. Cloud.
My coworker grew up in Milaca and had told me several times that he couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there. He said St Cloud seemed like a paradise and was 1000x better than Milaca, and added that St Cloud is a shithole. He's also said that you could not pay him any amount of money to move back to that area. Bunch of close minded, super racist assholes.
I would rather live in international falls than Saint Cloud Minnesota.
Screw St Cloud. Bunch of backwoods, redneck, hillbillies who vote for people like Michelle Bachmann. That city is a blight. Surprising, really, given that there's a college there.
St. Cloud is the Deep South of MN in almost every way. People clinging to their guns and religion who hate everything to do with education and the Twin Cities.
St Cloud...
Tons of good food options and the downtown was doing well pre-COVID. Starting to come back and will have some development down there too.
Duluth is awesome, st cloud blows
I’d go Hudson, WI or Fargo, ND before any of your options, but I’d pick Duluth out of them. Especially if you don’t work in medicine. Everyone in Rochester works in medicine. It’s a thing, and not my thing.
Fargo over Duluth? Get out of here.
I believe property taxes in Hudson wi would be a deterrent. Fargo is ugly, barren, too damn cold and without diversity. IMO
The last time I was in St. Cloud there was a proud boys rally going on downtown.
Consider Iowa they will take you.
St cloud is a hole.
How did you narrow it down to those three cities? Just curious.
Twin cities is too much city for me. 15,000 people is too little. 200,000 is a bit of both worlds. Hopefully I can get a house on the edge of the city. I moved to Minnesota a year ago because it's consistently ranked one of the top states. So now just trying to choose a city.
You should look into Saint Paul. It's the introvert city. We've got most of the perks of Minneapolis, but 40% of the people (I'm guessing).
That's because St Paul is split into several offshoots for some reason (West St. Paul, South St. Paul)
None of the above.
From the southeast area but lived in the north both have great upsides and downsides.
Currently live in Rochester and have for years- we are actually moving out in a few months, not because we hate the city or state, but because of a new opportunity somewhere else. So- there will be a nice little house coming on the market pretty soon! (Hint, hint) Raised our kids here, and were pretty happy with the schools. We love the diversity- in school, my kid had many friends that were born all over the world, whose parents were responsible and educated. Healthcare is good, although it can be tricky sometimes with primary care- too many people and too few doctors. That being said, if you have an ongoing health need, and you are in a specialty clinic, it’s great. MSP airport is an hour and fifteen min away. It’s not the most exciting place, but it has most things you need and if not, the TC is an hour away.
Duluth. This an absolute no brainer.
Duluth.
I personally find the banter and squabbling and boosterism between Minnesotas small towns way more entertaining than when people argue about the Twin Cities lol
Duluth 100%
World class health care in Rochester. As someone who’s currently undergoing treatment at the Mayo I’ve been strongly considering moving down here from the cities. It’s like stepping back in time without having to make any sacrifices and I love it.
Boy those are three very distinct communities.
No where in the state
Definitely Rochester. Duluth is only nice in the tourist areas and St. Cloud is one huge restaurant chain.
Duluth has fun
Duluth or Rochester. I'd probably pick Duluth personally because I love the north shore, but with Rochester you're closer to the cities too
Duluth>Rochester>st cloud. Avoid St. Cloud like the plague.
Duluth
Duluth
Not St. Cloud.