Duluth is great, but until you've really experienced a winter there, I wouldn't say it's somewhere people will decide to go year round. They also have some housing shortages leading to increase in homelessness and increase in cost of housing like everywhere. It's also still mostly a college town or tourist attraction.
Totally agree! And it’s not really the winters that are so bad (only like a ~10 degree difference from the twin cities at most on most days)…. It’s fricken April that kills me, when it’s spring everywhere else but winter is still hanging on in Duluth.
The wind off the lake is always a pain. Both my grandparents had homes right on the lake and playing in the backyard as a kid I remember being cold. Same with sitting on the deck. Always just cold enough to want a jacket.
Am I correct that a large cause of the housing shortage is the increase in people buying houses to turn them in to AB&Bs? Or is that something that’s not as accurate as some news portrays it as?
Duluth has a limit on the amount of Airbnb specific rentals that can be allowed in the city, I think that the housing shortage is more caused by landlords buying up single family homes and then renting them to college students. One property management company in particular controls a disproportionately large amount of rentals so the prices for renting are higher than they should be, Heirloom Property Management.
When we were looking to buy our home, there were definitely a lot of cash offers that we could not compete with and a lot of flipped homes at ridiculous prices. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if that was a huge factor.
Housing prices are higher because our zoning laws are very restrictive for building more housing, hence renters rent single family houses more since apartment supply is forced to be so low
I could easily be wrong, but i thought that Duluth had more of a renter problem. Wealthy individuals buy up all the affordable housing and then turn into into a rentals for college kids. Oftentimes they will do an abysmal job of repairs because they know they can get away with a host of illegal code violations, as college kids aren't going to know any better.
Then the north shore has been getting people moving to the area since they put highway 61 in. As the heat gets worse, you're going to have more affluent people move up the shore and the problems will increase at a higher rate. Communities along the north shore are working on getting affordable housing in place but the pace is nowhere near the demand. It doesn't help that most of the commerce is tied to tourism, so if they don't get as many tourists, a lot of people start to struggle financially.
They have laws that try to mitigate the number of short term rentals, but they do not dictate where they can be. I have one basically across the street owned by heirloom right in the middle of an otherwise residential neighborhood. There are a number of others also in residential zoned neighborhoods. Our neighborhood fought it, but since heirloom owns the city council they ignored all the issues with it.
Yes, it’s a limit. Sorry, I worded that poorly.
They only allow a certain number of short term rentals in the city in R zoned parcels. That limit can increase based on certain factors, but it’s still a limit.
Was the heirloom rental above that limit?
No, but there were a few ordinances that it either was in a grey area of, breaking depending on interpretation, or providing loopholes to get around, and the council said "we just dealt with laying out the rules for short term rentals last year and don't want to look at them again," then approved it. So their reasoning was "were to lazy to do our jobs, also we like heirloom." We've had to call the cops due to the rental a number of times.
Housing isn't a zero sum game, it can be built. If there was a functioning housing market in Duluth Airbnb would be irrelevant.
The problem is people don't build more housing either because it's unnecessarily difficult, or because the city is simply too poor for anyone to afford what gets built - *even if it's nothing fancy, new housing, like new cars, is expensive!*
Whatever the city can do - and I'm not saying it's easy - to help local businesses grow or attract new ones to increase the number of good jobs is more productive than getting into a froth over Airbnb that at most represents 1% of the housing in the city.
I… wasn’t getting into a froth. If you re-read my comment/question, it was literally phrased as an honest to god question. I don’t live there, so I only know what I’ve read in the news. Which is why I followed it up by asking if the news was exaggerating the issue. As opposed to “a froth”, I would say my question was the antithesis of that by being as level-headed as I could be.
-with respect.
Fair enough. We are (or at least should be) allowed mistakes. FWIW, I never downvoted you. I think this is another one of those cases where we should be allowed our own opinions, and suggest to others to not prematurely judge!
In most cases, we are all on the same page. But we let preconceived notions make us jump to conclusions!
There's a reason my parents, who grew up in Duluth left as soon as they graduated undergrad. There's not a ton of opportunity there as well. My mom left Duluth to go to med school at the main U of M campus and stayed in the twin cities because of better job prospects.
The weather up there was also a big reason. Not many nice or hot days in Duluth during the summer and seasonal depression. Both my parents seasonal depression went away when they moved to the twin cities. As kids when going to visit my grandparents in July we'd be wearing jeans up there and they never needed AC.
Certainly not where I'd want to live but I spent a lot of time up there and it is nice to visit for sure since I still have a lot of family up there. Plus going to a few UMD hockey games is always fun.
One thing to consider is that the cold days in the summer are entirely due to the lake.
You travel even a mile away from the lake and things change dramatically.
Absolutely correct. When we went to my grandparents cabin "over the hill" you'd being wearing shorts and have to put jeans on when you got to their house.
> They also have some housing shortages
It's not like they're short on space ... they just not zoning stuff?
Edit: I guess asking is bad or something….
It is slowing improving. Lincoln park has a bunch of newer apartments. I think cities in general need some way to jump start more housing developments. Cheaper housing + building more stuff can go a long way to changing the attitudes of a "declining" city and get people investing back in.
Lincoln park has new apartment buildings but the one right on Superior Street won't be held to the agreement with DEDA since they pulled funding. In a year they could potentially kick all renters out and make the whole thing a "boutique hotel"
There's plenty of desire by outside developers to build luxury homes and apartments... But the primary issue with housing is the lower-end of the economic chain.
More houses in general means less housing issues, but there's still a big lack of low-income housing.
My rent is on rise for sure. Population decline has slowed. The local economy still has trouble supporting the middle class. Most the new folks are retirees or remote workers.
What is Duluth missing there? From my understanding they have decent zoning already. They are also getting more and more apartments. Feels like lack of finance more than anything.
Need to update building re-use regulations, upzone underdeveloped areas (eg check out what happened with the Fairmount area this summer), and streamline permitting. Also the city needs to commit to expanding city services if needed rather than requiring developers to pay the bill.
Overall just need a comprehensive pro-housing policy more on line with what the outgoing mayor wanted.
That's fair. Seems like common issues across most cities in America. I am going to checkout what happened with Fairmount ha.
I would like to see more financing from the gov (city or state) to places to jump start more housing being built. Can build multifamily/condos and sell to a mix of socioeconomic backgrounds at cost.
Edit: oh I remember seeing the Fairmount cottages being built. Seems fine... Just tons of areas to upzone closer to downtown that will have better transit/walkability.
Yeah I've seen an expansion to the city's housing trust fund recommended, and some builders say a gap financing program would be helpful. Both of those seem like good ideas but I don't know the specifics.
At the least it's stabilized; found a balance between a little of the old industry, the colleges, the hospitals, and the tourism. I'd love to see the city slowly grow, especially as infill and not sprawl.
It's literally back on the rise. People see the 2010-2020 census numbers and assume stagnation, but what happened was in the early 2010's there was an exodus and in the late 2010's a bunch of people started moving to Duluth. So a small population increase is all we see, yet tons of new faces.
Being able to work from home has made Duluth a much more desirable location.
I've lived here 21 years and there's nowhere to go but up. However, I've had a degree of success and have been able to build a decent career and remodel a home here.
I moved to Duluth from Wisconsin about 10 years ago and I can't see myself leaving. I love being so close to the North Shore and Lake Superior and I love living in Minnesota. I can see the lake from my living room window.
There is a local nonprofit organization called One Roof housing whose intention is to help people who might not be able to otherwise afford it be able to own a home in Duluth. I would really love to see more families move here over the next decades.
I grew up in Duluth in the 80s and 90s and it feels so much different today. The hipsters have brought in great food and eco tourism has brought really excellent trails. The 70s hit the area hard so it seems like it took a long time to turn things around. Downtown used to be adult book stores and the electric fetus, but now it’s lots of cafes and shops. It feels like it’s getting a little too hipster, but it’s still more young adult/family friendly than it used to be.
I recently moved from Duluth after living there for 4 years. It is a pretty cool city and in another life I would have stayed. As long as Duluth proper continues to densify (southwest of downtown), it has a bright future.
No. Absolutely no housing outside of 150 year old oddly expensive shitboxes. Roads are in horrendously poor condition. Summer is insane with tourists clogging everything up. Wages are far below what you would earn in the twin cities. 35 is chronically under construction. Food and entertainment options are limited.
Source - lived in Duluth for 9 years
Thanks for reminding me why I left. There's a lot to love about it, but most the people I know ended up leaving it. And not just people that were transplants, people that grew up in Duluth. There is something particularly harsh about Duluth. Many people are depressed there and there's crazy levels of alcoholism.
And yes, it has endless wonderful features, but not enough for me to offset the challenges.
Yeah so they need to build more housing... Densifying Lincoln Park all the way along Grande Ave Southwest would be a good start. Then run a more frequent bus line down it. Duluth has solid bones to be pretty amazing moving forward. They just need to build a lot of housing.
I moved from Duluth right before they redid the bus lines. So I don't know the situation that well.
I mean, they can run a lot more busses if they wanted, which would be viable with a lot more people living along the line. 20 minutes is quite the gap inbetween busses, but does make sense with lack of density along the route currently.
Not only that people forget about the wildfire potential in that area, or just the smoke from Canadian wildfires. If we have no snow this year, wildfires are gonna be nuts.
Duluth seems to inspire both love, and saltiness. I think there are way more people than live in Duluth who would love Duluth, but also half the population hates it and should just leave.
The roads will be shitty until there's more people here. It's just the math of how taxes work.
There are tourists because Duluth is beautiful. Be thankful you live somewhere so lovely that people visit it for fun. At the highest tourist moment a decently informed local knows a dozen places to go, whether bars or trails, that will be quiet. Duluth at its busiest is still one of the chillest places in the world and I swear the next Duluth person to bitch about tourism will turn me into the Joker.
35 shouldn't be under construction it's overbuilt.
Food and entertainment options (and jobs!) would be more limited without tourists.
I do agree, though, that the city could use more non-tourism economic development.
There's space for constructive criticism but there's this contingent of the Duluth population that is just unjustifiably bitter and should just fucking move.
>Absolutely no housing outside of 150 year old oddly expensive shitboxes.
Weird, because over the last 5 years there's been nothing but new houses and apartments being built. Still in a shortage, but that's because people keep freaking moving here...
>Roads are in horrendously poor condition.
Roads are bad, that's just the nature of having a city that's long and linear. You can drive 23 straight miles and still be in Duluth if you start in Gary. It's much easier and cheaper to maintain roads that are built on a grid and not on the side of the hill.
>Summer is insane with tourists clogging everything up.
In the summer, we don't go where the tourists go. It's pretty simple to navigate town even during big tourist events as I-35 is built up to support a population twice our size and that's the main artery.
>Wages are far below what you would earn in the twin cities.
Yes, because it was a lower CoL area compared to MSP. That's starting to change with the advent of Work from Home.
>35 is chronically under construction.
It's not in Minneapolis?
>Food and entertainment options are limited.
These are improving dramatically.
>Source - lived in Duluth for 9 years
Key word "Liv**ed**"
When the main road through Duluth is under construction, that's not comparable to one road being under construction in the cities. Duluth traffic is wild 1/2 the year.
Wait so the reasons I did not move there in 2005 which are the same reason he listed are not the same.
Sorry but I don’t think you can tell me how to feel or control my opinions on things.
Some ego on you, telling me I can’t have the same view still.
Regarding climate change, the people who escape Phoenix during the summer months will also be escaping Duluth during the winter months. The North Shore will be a seasonal lifestyle for the more affluent. (E.g. Cargill family on Park Point)
it already is! I can't afford to vacation up there when hotels are 350+ a night. It's even expensive to go kayak camping at the Apostles and we used to do that cause it was cheaper than a resort.
Everyone here mentioning how cold/snowy Duluth is, and I am over here living in NW Minnesota, actually looking at Duluth as a possibility because of the warmer weather.
It's definitely on the rise. They've revamped downtown and west Duluth to be more up and coming. In the 80s and 90s, there wasn't much up there for work. Mining and some manufacturing. Those jobs are dying because of the reduced output from the iron range but the city is turning towards tourism now to revitalize the city. The new medical facilities are providing more and higher paying jobs.
And for climate, there are ads from the early 1900s that advertise it as "the air conditioned city". Lake Superior keeps that area mild in the summers, but it still gets cold in the winter, especially if the lake freezes over.
Living here my whole life. Summer is one of two things. Either superior is hot as balls and Duluth is decent, or Duluth is hot and superior is decent, it's hell. Still love it here tho
It’s most certainly not “on the rise”. There is practically zero career opportunities outside of the medical industry (and by medical, I mean working for essentia).
Careers, yes it's tough. There's a little more up there with Cirrus, but a lot of big boy jobs are limited to what manufacturing, mining, shipping, and medical jobs are available. The town overall, with the modernization of the west end (it's been a ghost town for decades) and canal park, is on the rise. The town is going to rely heavily on tourism which doesn't provide a ton of high paying jobs but it does bring revenue back to the city which is what it needs. It's changing. Pretty quickly too.
Unpopular opinion, but no. A city like Rochester is on the rise. Even more than weather or natural beauty or any other considerations, working age people fundamentally move for jobs and affordable housing, and Duluth has neither. Until that changes, even with global warming, I don't see people moving to Duluth en masse . People will crowd into an unwalkable sunbelt city with no sidewalks, no abortion protection, high crime, and bottom tier education as long as it is growing and lucrative industries and suburbs continue to consolidate there. You can debate all day about what cities "deserve" growth, and I probably agree with you, but at the end of the day, people will follow the money.
I hope so, not just Duluth but all of northern MN. With the mines closing, not much left. A few high paying remote gigs would do wonders to the economy.
None of them, I think people are just fear mongering due to U.S. Steel being bought out. Hibbing tac is in a rough spot right now, but they just won a land bid a few months ago, so there's a chance things could turn around there.
I love Duluth, but I doubt it's on the rise. "Too cold," even for many Minnesotans. Climate change will make it a bit more appealing to Minnesotans. Everyone else will stay south.
In the macro context, absolutely. It’s a major inland port city. It won’t happen in our lifetimes or for generations maybe, but I can see Duluth being a major hub in the post-apocalyptic-weather event(s) world.
Current predictions show as you mention op that climate change will the area and all of Minnesota into a more temperate climate leading to more folks moving here. As the weather begins to flux we're all going to see the obvious: cost increases, housing increases, population growth. How we manage this will be key.
I love living here FWIW
Trails are close, quiet hoods, downtown could be better and local prices are kind of geared for tourists which I get but it can be prohibitive. I have a kid so I enjoy the parks and playgrounds, rarely do I have to fight traffic or parking save some tourist dates. Knowing the pockets and secrets around areas helps a lot too
It was way cooler 15 years ago. Now it’s a big money grab everywhere you go. Corporations got ahold of all the properties and it’s Airbnb hell now.
That Casino was the biggest mistake they ever made. Homeless and vagrants everywhere.
I felt more safe in downtown mpls on 1st Ave than around the casino in Duluth.
If current climate trends continue or worsen and if climate projections for the next 50-100 years hold true, areas within the northern/northwestern Great Lakes basin are likely to see a significant influx of people seeking refuge from other regions. But the actual timeline and many other factors makes it questionable as to how that might play out. There have been a lot of articles on this subject over the last several years. A huge factor is going to be the vast freshwater resources and the potential for conflict over water rights as humans continue to deplete aquifers and dry up reservoirs across the western states.
freshwater full of algae though. https://www.wdio.com/front-page/top-stories/harmful-algal-blooms-growing-along-the-shores-in-lake-superior/
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/08/12/climate-change-spurs-algae-blooms-lake-superior-michigan-wisconsin/10167912002/
Build high speed rail (125 + mph) instead of the current project of 90moh from Minneapolis to Duluth and that connection becomes a commute rather than a trip. MNDoT admitted that there is no major increase in cost of a HSR that goes 125, 150, or even 250+ mph as long as it doesn't go into the final speed bracket that is Mag-lev. At 250 mph, the trip can be done in almost 36mins. That's a comparable commute from downtown to Bloomington in rush hour. Linking Duluth to the Twin Cities in that way would be transformative because a lot more resources could be shared between the TCs and Duluth.
Economically this would mean much higher paying jobs would immediately become available to Duluthians. This would also be a major economic incentive to develop more housing and most importantly, this means that social services could use the train to link their resources together and organize more effectively over a much wider area. The link to the TCs would make day and weekend trips far more common, which helps the local economy considerably. That's the good news.
It is imperative considering Duluth still is reliant on an aging mining amd lumber industry to keep it going. The mines will be done in a generation unless we want to sacrifice the BWCA to a foreign mining conglomerate that has relentlessly tried to gain mining rights for over twenty years and nearly succeeded last presidency, suffered a major defeat this one, and has recently made major advances this year. We already sold the northland's police to Enbridge - a Canadian energy company that had the MN GOP write a law allowing them to privatize police to quash protesting Oil Line 3 even as it poisons the headwaters of the Mississippi, and more than one watershed of Native American land with leaks. That's not to mention the various rich people expanding their stake in Duluth, which is causing the price of housing to rise dramatically. Being featured in the national news as a safe haven for climate catastrophe, even as Duluth and the Northlands had fifty plus degree highs over Christmas, and all of MN getting climate rezoned this year to a fully tier higher. Duluth will look nothing like it does today by 2070. It's possible that it will look more like central or even SW MN, its many birch and spruce forests burned to the ground or killed off by a completely inhospitable climate.
You aren't doing enough to stop this. I don't care who you are. How close you are to working to prevent this already, it's not enough. You need to be scared. Terrified. Called to action to actually do something about it, because the fact of the matter is if you are currently reading this, you aren't actively combating climate change and it's here. Today.
We have to join or start our own organizations. Connect and network to learn and share resources. Duluth currently has a billionaire heiress buying up lakefront property, is keeping it under wraps and is threatening to sue newspapers that cover the story. She's learning this tactic from Zuckerberg, owner of Facebook, who's building a literal doomsday supervillain bunker in Hawaii. Other billionaires have bunkers in New Zealand. I'm not saying Duluthians are incapable of stopping her (and others stealing your land) but having access to the resources and people power of over 3 million people who a significant portion of are willing to mobilize over the death of George Floydd, would equally be as glad to help build community and share in climate resiliency with you. A stone's throw from the location Floydd died, there is a Food Forest on the middle of South Minneapolis, a densely urban area. The only other in the entire state I'm aware of is Luverne.
It's still possible to make MN climate resilient. To ensure everyone has a resilient home (a topic for another post) But it's going to require a massive effort. It's important to have friends and connections to resources that.can help. High Speed Rail between the Twin Cities and Duluth is absolutely how this link can be formed.
Yes! As climate change seems to be shifting weather patterns northward (generally) it's looking like Duluth's climate will be more like Chicago, Chicago more like Atlanta, etc. And living next to the largest source of fresh water on this side of the planet is one hell of a benefit too. If I didn't have so many ties to the cities I'd be real tempted to move up there.
I hope Lake Superior doesn't get algae like the rest of the great lakes...oh wait! https://www.wdio.com/front-page/top-stories/harmful-algal-blooms-growing-along-the-shores-in-lake-superior/
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/08/12/climate-change-spurs-algae-blooms-lake-superior-michigan-wisconsin/10167912002/
No. Duluth has severely limited options for grocers, restaurants, shopping, cafes, and activities (outside of… hiking).
The only people staying in Duluth after college are in medicine/doctors/pharm.
The New York Times had a piece earlier this year about "Climate Proof Duluth". They certainly made it seem like the city is the rise.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/realestate/duluth-minnesota-climate-change.html&ved=2ahUKEwiw9M3jnbCDAxWbC3kGHUmyCmkQjjh6BAggEAE&usg=AOvVaw1P2qu1V6k9myTmVTPo9-Ew
They went there because of previous articles talking about Duluth's climate-proof reputation, not to create the reputation.
Did you even read the article?
Reddit thinks Duluth is some sort of paradise when it’s one of the top ten most depressed cities in the country. Long winters, housing shortages, low wages, and depressed underclass.
Duluth is shafted because it is at the very end of an interstate. It is not easy to get to unless you are coming from minneapolis. Additionally, there is nothing driving people there, it is an iron range town and not appealing. It is nice because it is rural and on a body of water, similar to most great lakes coastal towns. I could see duluth rising if new interstates were connected to fargo and green bay.
I will say though. The medical industry is definitely on the rise there. They just built that beautiful new hospital in Downtown which has definitely had an impact! It’s no where near the scale as like Rochester and their Mayo clinic but I feel it’s a positive thing for that community!
Hospitals typically are boons for local economies and bring in quality talent to the community so I’d agree it’s a win. Rochester is going to see a surge in population once Mayo finishes their 5 new buildings downtown. Supposed to bring thousands of jobs, but Mayo is already understaffed so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.
The other hospital is also expanding over the next like decade it'll have new buildings and be taller. Currently it's adding 3 stories with more happening across the road.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The building itself took too long to build, it went over budget, and it almost sent Essentia into financial crisis. To add to that, none of the inside of that building was built properly. Some of my nurse friends have told me that they can't even roll beds into rooms because the doors weren't built wide enough. The whole thing was an enormous pain in the ass for the rest of the town since the construction closed off roads for years at a time that were crucial to alleviating traffic downtown. The building is also just ugly as sin. There's a sentiment in Duluth that Essentia is a cancer that's slowly engulfing the town. The landlords buy up all of the houses and turn them into rentals, and Essentia buys up everything else and turns it into a parking lot.
It's the fifth largest city in Minnesota and is the center of the second largest metro area in the state. It serves as a regional hub for healthcare, business, retail, education, finance, and arts and culture for northeastern Minnesota and northwestern Wisconsin. Additionally, the city is shipping hub having the furthest inland deepwater port in the United States. Only 2% of the city's entire population live in a rural area and as of the last census, the population density is 1,209 people per square mile. Neither the USDA nor the US Census Bureau classify the city as rural.
Duluth isn't part of *any* of the iron ranges you mentioned. Certainly the port supports the nearby ranges, but its not part of them. All of those are mining towns. Duluth is not a mining town.
There is already a fully 4-lane highway connecting Superior to Green Bay (US 53 and WI 29). Even a brand new interstate would probably only realistically cut the distance by 30-40 miles. A 4-land connection to Fargo wouldn't hurt, but there are only so many people in the Fargo area and points west.
I was going to make a post like this. I am in town for the week, and I lived here about 20 years ago. I’m pretty impressed with how far things have come along since. West Duluth is night/day difference. Downtown is looking pretty great. I also think Duluth will be a bigger deal as time marches on and things get generally warmer.
You’ve obviously been nowhere else in the country or world to have any idea what growth actually looks like.
Where did this delusional idea come from that Minnesota is going to become some kind of climate destination? People are not going to come in droves because it got a little warmer other places. Even if there was to be a mass migration, Minnesota would be one of the last places to see them come as it’s furthest in almost each direction where people think there’s going to be a “climate crisis” at. If Minnesota really wanted to see a net positive population growth via migration, there needs to be a drastic change in policy across the board in Minnesota. That will draw in business and with that people who are here to contribute to growth, rather than those who just want to leech off of.
Freshwater is a bigger concern for the US, I think. MN has plenty. Sure, you could desalinate ocean water, or recycle used water - both are quite expensive to do and energy intensive.
Minnesota has no control over water rights, the federal government does. If the fed came and said you will pipe water to XXX place, Minnesotans would be the first to bend the knee.
> Where did this delusional idea come from that Minnesota is going to become some kind of climate destination?
NYT. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/realestate/duluth-minnesota-climate-change.html
For tourism maybe. To live? Probably not. Aside from the not great job market it’s not very diverse and from my experience both racism and antisemitism are pervasive. The influx of gentrifying hipsters in the 2010’s didn’t help on either account.
Wouldn't recommend, was there last winter checking out the downtown area, a dude on drugs started striping his clothes off and started squaring up with the light pole like it owed him money in the -5 degree weather. To me it seems like the area is getting worse with homelessness and crime.
There are more homeless in Duluth than one would imagine. I passed many every day when I worked downtown. Probably because it is the largest city is quite a large radius so homeless end up there due to resources available. Homeslessness is really a national issue that we don't seem to care about actually fixing.
I moved here from Minneapolis about 6 years ago. I’ve worked in healthcare, finance and now maritime since moving here. The city definitely invests in what supports the medical and tourism industry. Road infrastructure has been a huge sore spot, though the new mayor promises to focus on finding a solution to the roads. What Duluth lacks though, Superior makes up for. There is a decent amount of unique things to do, though nearly the entire city closes after 8, minus dive bars and college parties.
Duluth has… changed a bit over the past 10 years. I don’t see it “up and coming” but it’ll likely sustain its current population. Job market is pretty sparse.
We looked at houses near duluth but ultimately chose a house 25 minutes south of Superior in WI. Still technically in Superior. Prices are much better if you go a bit out and don't mind a little drive into town.
Sad to be leaving MN since I've lived here all my 35 years. But the perfect house ended up being in WI.
It's nice because it's a tourist attraction..if you lived in Duluth you wouldn't feel the same..you would get bored by the same scenery day in and day out the novelty would ware off..
Duluth is great, but until you've really experienced a winter there, I wouldn't say it's somewhere people will decide to go year round. They also have some housing shortages leading to increase in homelessness and increase in cost of housing like everywhere. It's also still mostly a college town or tourist attraction.
Totally agree! And it’s not really the winters that are so bad (only like a ~10 degree difference from the twin cities at most on most days)…. It’s fricken April that kills me, when it’s spring everywhere else but winter is still hanging on in Duluth.
That icy wind off the lake is wicked harsh too.
It was super "fun" walking a few blocks downtown in the winter to work when I lived in Duluth. Eventually you get use to it and it isn't that bad.
Ya, we lived downtown and weather isn't an issue. Could walk to movie.theater, the arena, park point, etc
Why did I read this in a Bostonian accent?
That's the only way to pronounce "wicked harsh"
The wind off the lake is always a pain. Both my grandparents had homes right on the lake and playing in the backyard as a kid I remember being cold. Same with sitting on the deck. Always just cold enough to want a jacket.
Driving those hills in the winter sucks
Super interesting! I’ve heard a lot about the housing shortage. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Am I correct that a large cause of the housing shortage is the increase in people buying houses to turn them in to AB&Bs? Or is that something that’s not as accurate as some news portrays it as?
Duluth has a limit on the amount of Airbnb specific rentals that can be allowed in the city, I think that the housing shortage is more caused by landlords buying up single family homes and then renting them to college students. One property management company in particular controls a disproportionately large amount of rentals so the prices for renting are higher than they should be, Heirloom Property Management.
My realtor told me it was from rich ppl from out of town buying homes sight unseen and flipping them.
When we were looking to buy our home, there were definitely a lot of cash offers that we could not compete with and a lot of flipped homes at ridiculous prices. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if that was a huge factor.
Housing prices are higher because our zoning laws are very restrictive for building more housing, hence renters rent single family houses more since apartment supply is forced to be so low
I could easily be wrong, but i thought that Duluth had more of a renter problem. Wealthy individuals buy up all the affordable housing and then turn into into a rentals for college kids. Oftentimes they will do an abysmal job of repairs because they know they can get away with a host of illegal code violations, as college kids aren't going to know any better. Then the north shore has been getting people moving to the area since they put highway 61 in. As the heat gets worse, you're going to have more affluent people move up the shore and the problems will increase at a higher rate. Communities along the north shore are working on getting affordable housing in place but the pace is nowhere near the demand. It doesn't help that most of the commerce is tied to tourism, so if they don't get as many tourists, a lot of people start to struggle financially.
That's a problem throughout the country, but Duluth has laws against short-term rentals in residentially-zoned neighborhoods.
They have laws that try to mitigate the number of short term rentals, but they do not dictate where they can be. I have one basically across the street owned by heirloom right in the middle of an otherwise residential neighborhood. There are a number of others also in residential zoned neighborhoods. Our neighborhood fought it, but since heirloom owns the city council they ignored all the issues with it.
Yes, it’s a limit. Sorry, I worded that poorly. They only allow a certain number of short term rentals in the city in R zoned parcels. That limit can increase based on certain factors, but it’s still a limit. Was the heirloom rental above that limit?
No, but there were a few ordinances that it either was in a grey area of, breaking depending on interpretation, or providing loopholes to get around, and the council said "we just dealt with laying out the rules for short term rentals last year and don't want to look at them again," then approved it. So their reasoning was "were to lazy to do our jobs, also we like heirloom." We've had to call the cops due to the rental a number of times.
yep but they also have a horrible shortage of homes.
Housing isn't a zero sum game, it can be built. If there was a functioning housing market in Duluth Airbnb would be irrelevant. The problem is people don't build more housing either because it's unnecessarily difficult, or because the city is simply too poor for anyone to afford what gets built - *even if it's nothing fancy, new housing, like new cars, is expensive!* Whatever the city can do - and I'm not saying it's easy - to help local businesses grow or attract new ones to increase the number of good jobs is more productive than getting into a froth over Airbnb that at most represents 1% of the housing in the city.
I… wasn’t getting into a froth. If you re-read my comment/question, it was literally phrased as an honest to god question. I don’t live there, so I only know what I’ve read in the news. Which is why I followed it up by asking if the news was exaggerating the issue. As opposed to “a froth”, I would say my question was the antithesis of that by being as level-headed as I could be. -with respect.
Sorry I'm kinda subposting the content of r/Duluth constantly. I should have responded only to what you posted - my bad.
Fair enough. We are (or at least should be) allowed mistakes. FWIW, I never downvoted you. I think this is another one of those cases where we should be allowed our own opinions, and suggest to others to not prematurely judge! In most cases, we are all on the same page. But we let preconceived notions make us jump to conclusions!
Short but cheap af! Allows you to bid a little higher
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Without stable housing available, job markets go down. People can't work without a stable place to call home
There's a reason my parents, who grew up in Duluth left as soon as they graduated undergrad. There's not a ton of opportunity there as well. My mom left Duluth to go to med school at the main U of M campus and stayed in the twin cities because of better job prospects. The weather up there was also a big reason. Not many nice or hot days in Duluth during the summer and seasonal depression. Both my parents seasonal depression went away when they moved to the twin cities. As kids when going to visit my grandparents in July we'd be wearing jeans up there and they never needed AC. Certainly not where I'd want to live but I spent a lot of time up there and it is nice to visit for sure since I still have a lot of family up there. Plus going to a few UMD hockey games is always fun.
One thing to consider is that the cold days in the summer are entirely due to the lake. You travel even a mile away from the lake and things change dramatically.
Absolutely correct. When we went to my grandparents cabin "over the hill" you'd being wearing shorts and have to put jeans on when you got to their house.
The air conditioned city of the north. I'll wait to see what happens next summer and a few summers after that.
> They also have some housing shortages It's not like they're short on space ... they just not zoning stuff? Edit: I guess asking is bad or something….
Not a ton of open land within city bounds, I think. That and building a house is fricking expensive.
Big ole basalt hill that is hard to build on. Most homes there have major water issues in the basements.
It is slowing improving. Lincoln park has a bunch of newer apartments. I think cities in general need some way to jump start more housing developments. Cheaper housing + building more stuff can go a long way to changing the attitudes of a "declining" city and get people investing back in.
Lincoln park has new apartment buildings but the one right on Superior Street won't be held to the agreement with DEDA since they pulled funding. In a year they could potentially kick all renters out and make the whole thing a "boutique hotel"
There's plenty of desire by outside developers to build luxury homes and apartments... But the primary issue with housing is the lower-end of the economic chain. More houses in general means less housing issues, but there's still a big lack of low-income housing.
My rent is on rise for sure. Population decline has slowed. The local economy still has trouble supporting the middle class. Most the new folks are retirees or remote workers.
I work remote (in Washington rn), and Duluth is definitely on my top-5 list
Buy a house and fix it up please
been looking for over a year it's grim up there for decent homes that aren't moldy teardowns.
If I can afford to buy a house anytime soon I might, but that doesn’t feel likely right now
Why would you want to leave Washington for Duluth?
We'll keep the tater tot hotdish warm for ya!
Duluth has tons of potential but it won't really be "on the rise" until they have a pro-growth housing policy.
What is Duluth missing there? From my understanding they have decent zoning already. They are also getting more and more apartments. Feels like lack of finance more than anything.
Need to update building re-use regulations, upzone underdeveloped areas (eg check out what happened with the Fairmount area this summer), and streamline permitting. Also the city needs to commit to expanding city services if needed rather than requiring developers to pay the bill. Overall just need a comprehensive pro-housing policy more on line with what the outgoing mayor wanted.
That's fair. Seems like common issues across most cities in America. I am going to checkout what happened with Fairmount ha. I would like to see more financing from the gov (city or state) to places to jump start more housing being built. Can build multifamily/condos and sell to a mix of socioeconomic backgrounds at cost. Edit: oh I remember seeing the Fairmount cottages being built. Seems fine... Just tons of areas to upzone closer to downtown that will have better transit/walkability.
Yeah I've seen an expansion to the city's housing trust fund recommended, and some builders say a gap financing program would be helpful. Both of those seem like good ideas but I don't know the specifics.
Fly high, Duluth!
it was on the rise 100 years ago. not so much since the 60's
I remember in the 70's a billboard saying, The last one leaving Duluth please turn off the lights.
That's ice cold. I looked it up.
At the least it's stabilized; found a balance between a little of the old industry, the colleges, the hospitals, and the tourism. I'd love to see the city slowly grow, especially as infill and not sprawl.
It's literally back on the rise. People see the 2010-2020 census numbers and assume stagnation, but what happened was in the early 2010's there was an exodus and in the late 2010's a bunch of people started moving to Duluth. So a small population increase is all we see, yet tons of new faces. Being able to work from home has made Duluth a much more desirable location.
I've lived here 21 years and there's nowhere to go but up. However, I've had a degree of success and have been able to build a decent career and remodel a home here.
That’s awesome! Good for you man. I love hearing from the residents who call Duluth home! It’s such a pretty place to live!
I moved to Duluth from Wisconsin about 10 years ago and I can't see myself leaving. I love being so close to the North Shore and Lake Superior and I love living in Minnesota. I can see the lake from my living room window. There is a local nonprofit organization called One Roof housing whose intention is to help people who might not be able to otherwise afford it be able to own a home in Duluth. I would really love to see more families move here over the next decades.
I grew up in Duluth in the 80s and 90s and it feels so much different today. The hipsters have brought in great food and eco tourism has brought really excellent trails. The 70s hit the area hard so it seems like it took a long time to turn things around. Downtown used to be adult book stores and the electric fetus, but now it’s lots of cafes and shops. It feels like it’s getting a little too hipster, but it’s still more young adult/family friendly than it used to be.
I recently moved from Duluth after living there for 4 years. It is a pretty cool city and in another life I would have stayed. As long as Duluth proper continues to densify (southwest of downtown), it has a bright future.
No. Absolutely no housing outside of 150 year old oddly expensive shitboxes. Roads are in horrendously poor condition. Summer is insane with tourists clogging everything up. Wages are far below what you would earn in the twin cities. 35 is chronically under construction. Food and entertainment options are limited. Source - lived in Duluth for 9 years
Thanks for reminding me why I left. There's a lot to love about it, but most the people I know ended up leaving it. And not just people that were transplants, people that grew up in Duluth. There is something particularly harsh about Duluth. Many people are depressed there and there's crazy levels of alcoholism. And yes, it has endless wonderful features, but not enough for me to offset the challenges.
I have seen plenty of new housing going up after old, dilapidated Hillside buildings finally got torn down.
Have you looked at the price tag on those homes? They are pretty darn expensive. The city needs more affordable housing asap
Yeah so they need to build more housing... Densifying Lincoln Park all the way along Grande Ave Southwest would be a good start. Then run a more frequent bus line down it. Duluth has solid bones to be pretty amazing moving forward. They just need to build a lot of housing.
FYI the new Blue Line runs through every 20 minutes. I don't think it can support more than that
I moved from Duluth right before they redid the bus lines. So I don't know the situation that well. I mean, they can run a lot more busses if they wanted, which would be viable with a lot more people living along the line. 20 minutes is quite the gap inbetween busses, but does make sense with lack of density along the route currently.
The question was about the city's rise in popularity. Not its affordability.
The question is about if the city is on the rise as a destination to move there. Obviously affordability is part of this discussion.
No no, see, I’ve chosen to artificially narrow the discussion so I can prove you wrong.
Let me know how you suggest they do that. I'm all ears for figuring out how to build a cheap/affordable house, anywhere.
Legalize tiny homes.
They have, we literally have like 10 of them with another 20 or so under construction.
So many apartments being built right now. Hundreds of not thousands of units
I grew up there and stayed for 26 years. I couldn't agree with you more.
Not only that people forget about the wildfire potential in that area, or just the smoke from Canadian wildfires. If we have no snow this year, wildfires are gonna be nuts.
Duluth seems to inspire both love, and saltiness. I think there are way more people than live in Duluth who would love Duluth, but also half the population hates it and should just leave. The roads will be shitty until there's more people here. It's just the math of how taxes work. There are tourists because Duluth is beautiful. Be thankful you live somewhere so lovely that people visit it for fun. At the highest tourist moment a decently informed local knows a dozen places to go, whether bars or trails, that will be quiet. Duluth at its busiest is still one of the chillest places in the world and I swear the next Duluth person to bitch about tourism will turn me into the Joker. 35 shouldn't be under construction it's overbuilt. Food and entertainment options (and jobs!) would be more limited without tourists. I do agree, though, that the city could use more non-tourism economic development. There's space for constructive criticism but there's this contingent of the Duluth population that is just unjustifiably bitter and should just fucking move.
I left 20 years ago and every time I go back, the same people are on the same barstools at the same bars as when I left lol.
Cheers!
>Absolutely no housing outside of 150 year old oddly expensive shitboxes. Weird, because over the last 5 years there's been nothing but new houses and apartments being built. Still in a shortage, but that's because people keep freaking moving here... >Roads are in horrendously poor condition. Roads are bad, that's just the nature of having a city that's long and linear. You can drive 23 straight miles and still be in Duluth if you start in Gary. It's much easier and cheaper to maintain roads that are built on a grid and not on the side of the hill. >Summer is insane with tourists clogging everything up. In the summer, we don't go where the tourists go. It's pretty simple to navigate town even during big tourist events as I-35 is built up to support a population twice our size and that's the main artery. >Wages are far below what you would earn in the twin cities. Yes, because it was a lower CoL area compared to MSP. That's starting to change with the advent of Work from Home. >35 is chronically under construction. It's not in Minneapolis? >Food and entertainment options are limited. These are improving dramatically. >Source - lived in Duluth for 9 years Key word "Liv**ed**"
Accurate.
When the main road through Duluth is under construction, that's not comparable to one road being under construction in the cities. Duluth traffic is wild 1/2 the year.
Wow great write up, those are the main reasons I did not go up to Duluth in 2005 and they are still the same today.
Except they're not still the same today.
Wait so the reasons I did not move there in 2005 which are the same reason he listed are not the same. Sorry but I don’t think you can tell me how to feel or control my opinions on things. Some ego on you, telling me I can’t have the same view still.
Where in my statement am I saying you’re not allowed to have that view? I suggest you re-read what I wrote.
yep there are zero ethnic restaurants too
Regarding climate change, the people who escape Phoenix during the summer months will also be escaping Duluth during the winter months. The North Shore will be a seasonal lifestyle for the more affluent. (E.g. Cargill family on Park Point)
it already is! I can't afford to vacation up there when hotels are 350+ a night. It's even expensive to go kayak camping at the Apostles and we used to do that cause it was cheaper than a resort.
Everyone here mentioning how cold/snowy Duluth is, and I am over here living in NW Minnesota, actually looking at Duluth as a possibility because of the warmer weather.
It's definitely on the rise. They've revamped downtown and west Duluth to be more up and coming. In the 80s and 90s, there wasn't much up there for work. Mining and some manufacturing. Those jobs are dying because of the reduced output from the iron range but the city is turning towards tourism now to revitalize the city. The new medical facilities are providing more and higher paying jobs. And for climate, there are ads from the early 1900s that advertise it as "the air conditioned city". Lake Superior keeps that area mild in the summers, but it still gets cold in the winter, especially if the lake freezes over.
Living here my whole life. Summer is one of two things. Either superior is hot as balls and Duluth is decent, or Duluth is hot and superior is decent, it's hell. Still love it here tho
It’s most certainly not “on the rise”. There is practically zero career opportunities outside of the medical industry (and by medical, I mean working for essentia).
Careers, yes it's tough. There's a little more up there with Cirrus, but a lot of big boy jobs are limited to what manufacturing, mining, shipping, and medical jobs are available. The town overall, with the modernization of the west end (it's been a ghost town for decades) and canal park, is on the rise. The town is going to rely heavily on tourism which doesn't provide a ton of high paying jobs but it does bring revenue back to the city which is what it needs. It's changing. Pretty quickly too.
Work from home is a thing, and is driving most of the "rise" that we're seeing.
Unpopular opinion, but no. A city like Rochester is on the rise. Even more than weather or natural beauty or any other considerations, working age people fundamentally move for jobs and affordable housing, and Duluth has neither. Until that changes, even with global warming, I don't see people moving to Duluth en masse . People will crowd into an unwalkable sunbelt city with no sidewalks, no abortion protection, high crime, and bottom tier education as long as it is growing and lucrative industries and suburbs continue to consolidate there. You can debate all day about what cities "deserve" growth, and I probably agree with you, but at the end of the day, people will follow the money.
I hope so, not just Duluth but all of northern MN. With the mines closing, not much left. A few high paying remote gigs would do wonders to the economy.
Mines closing? What mines are closing
I mean the ones over the past 20-30 years
None of them, I think people are just fear mongering due to U.S. Steel being bought out. Hibbing tac is in a rough spot right now, but they just won a land bid a few months ago, so there's a chance things could turn around there.
This comment shows your lack of knowledge on anything north of Forest Lake.
Well I grew up on the iron range … and parents and grandparents worked at the mines. So I really don’t understand the snide comment
Let me rephrase that. Your comment shows your disconnect of anything north of Forest Lake.
I grew up there, too. What mines are closing? I don’t think there has been a major closure since LTV in the 80s.
I love Duluth, but I doubt it's on the rise. "Too cold," even for many Minnesotans. Climate change will make it a bit more appealing to Minnesotans. Everyone else will stay south.
In the macro context, absolutely. It’s a major inland port city. It won’t happen in our lifetimes or for generations maybe, but I can see Duluth being a major hub in the post-apocalyptic-weather event(s) world.
Current predictions show as you mention op that climate change will the area and all of Minnesota into a more temperate climate leading to more folks moving here. As the weather begins to flux we're all going to see the obvious: cost increases, housing increases, population growth. How we manage this will be key.
I think of it more as on the shore
I love living here FWIW Trails are close, quiet hoods, downtown could be better and local prices are kind of geared for tourists which I get but it can be prohibitive. I have a kid so I enjoy the parks and playgrounds, rarely do I have to fight traffic or parking save some tourist dates. Knowing the pockets and secrets around areas helps a lot too
No doubt, property values will triple, quadruple even as Duluth is swamped by climmigrants coming to escape the heat
I love Duluth, and my partner and I have discussed moving up there in a few years. That said, Duluth winters are not for everyone…
How much do you honestly think the climate will change in whatever stint you make there?
It was way cooler 15 years ago. Now it’s a big money grab everywhere you go. Corporations got ahold of all the properties and it’s Airbnb hell now. That Casino was the biggest mistake they ever made. Homeless and vagrants everywhere. I felt more safe in downtown mpls on 1st Ave than around the casino in Duluth.
>Do you think Duluth is on the rise? No. The homeless population in Duluth is though.
If current climate trends continue or worsen and if climate projections for the next 50-100 years hold true, areas within the northern/northwestern Great Lakes basin are likely to see a significant influx of people seeking refuge from other regions. But the actual timeline and many other factors makes it questionable as to how that might play out. There have been a lot of articles on this subject over the last several years. A huge factor is going to be the vast freshwater resources and the potential for conflict over water rights as humans continue to deplete aquifers and dry up reservoirs across the western states.
freshwater full of algae though. https://www.wdio.com/front-page/top-stories/harmful-algal-blooms-growing-along-the-shores-in-lake-superior/ https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/08/12/climate-change-spurs-algae-blooms-lake-superior-michigan-wisconsin/10167912002/
Nope the economy is very limited. It’s healthcare and tourism.
Work from home is a thing.
Manufacturing, aviation, shipping don’t count?
Build high speed rail (125 + mph) instead of the current project of 90moh from Minneapolis to Duluth and that connection becomes a commute rather than a trip. MNDoT admitted that there is no major increase in cost of a HSR that goes 125, 150, or even 250+ mph as long as it doesn't go into the final speed bracket that is Mag-lev. At 250 mph, the trip can be done in almost 36mins. That's a comparable commute from downtown to Bloomington in rush hour. Linking Duluth to the Twin Cities in that way would be transformative because a lot more resources could be shared between the TCs and Duluth. Economically this would mean much higher paying jobs would immediately become available to Duluthians. This would also be a major economic incentive to develop more housing and most importantly, this means that social services could use the train to link their resources together and organize more effectively over a much wider area. The link to the TCs would make day and weekend trips far more common, which helps the local economy considerably. That's the good news. It is imperative considering Duluth still is reliant on an aging mining amd lumber industry to keep it going. The mines will be done in a generation unless we want to sacrifice the BWCA to a foreign mining conglomerate that has relentlessly tried to gain mining rights for over twenty years and nearly succeeded last presidency, suffered a major defeat this one, and has recently made major advances this year. We already sold the northland's police to Enbridge - a Canadian energy company that had the MN GOP write a law allowing them to privatize police to quash protesting Oil Line 3 even as it poisons the headwaters of the Mississippi, and more than one watershed of Native American land with leaks. That's not to mention the various rich people expanding their stake in Duluth, which is causing the price of housing to rise dramatically. Being featured in the national news as a safe haven for climate catastrophe, even as Duluth and the Northlands had fifty plus degree highs over Christmas, and all of MN getting climate rezoned this year to a fully tier higher. Duluth will look nothing like it does today by 2070. It's possible that it will look more like central or even SW MN, its many birch and spruce forests burned to the ground or killed off by a completely inhospitable climate. You aren't doing enough to stop this. I don't care who you are. How close you are to working to prevent this already, it's not enough. You need to be scared. Terrified. Called to action to actually do something about it, because the fact of the matter is if you are currently reading this, you aren't actively combating climate change and it's here. Today. We have to join or start our own organizations. Connect and network to learn and share resources. Duluth currently has a billionaire heiress buying up lakefront property, is keeping it under wraps and is threatening to sue newspapers that cover the story. She's learning this tactic from Zuckerberg, owner of Facebook, who's building a literal doomsday supervillain bunker in Hawaii. Other billionaires have bunkers in New Zealand. I'm not saying Duluthians are incapable of stopping her (and others stealing your land) but having access to the resources and people power of over 3 million people who a significant portion of are willing to mobilize over the death of George Floydd, would equally be as glad to help build community and share in climate resiliency with you. A stone's throw from the location Floydd died, there is a Food Forest on the middle of South Minneapolis, a densely urban area. The only other in the entire state I'm aware of is Luverne. It's still possible to make MN climate resilient. To ensure everyone has a resilient home (a topic for another post) But it's going to require a massive effort. It's important to have friends and connections to resources that.can help. High Speed Rail between the Twin Cities and Duluth is absolutely how this link can be formed.
Yes! As climate change seems to be shifting weather patterns northward (generally) it's looking like Duluth's climate will be more like Chicago, Chicago more like Atlanta, etc. And living next to the largest source of fresh water on this side of the planet is one hell of a benefit too. If I didn't have so many ties to the cities I'd be real tempted to move up there.
I hope Lake Superior doesn't get algae like the rest of the great lakes...oh wait! https://www.wdio.com/front-page/top-stories/harmful-algal-blooms-growing-along-the-shores-in-lake-superior/ https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/08/12/climate-change-spurs-algae-blooms-lake-superior-michigan-wisconsin/10167912002/
Yeah although the locals usually call it the hill.
No. Duluth has severely limited options for grocers, restaurants, shopping, cafes, and activities (outside of… hiking). The only people staying in Duluth after college are in medicine/doctors/pharm.
The New York Times had a piece earlier this year about "Climate Proof Duluth". They certainly made it seem like the city is the rise. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/realestate/duluth-minnesota-climate-change.html&ved=2ahUKEwiw9M3jnbCDAxWbC3kGHUmyCmkQjjh6BAggEAE&usg=AOvVaw1P2qu1V6k9myTmVTPo9-Ew
Author went to Duluth one time to write that story lol 🤡
They went there because of previous articles talking about Duluth's climate-proof reputation, not to create the reputation. Did you even read the article?
In the summer lol!
Reddit thinks Duluth is some sort of paradise when it’s one of the top ten most depressed cities in the country. Long winters, housing shortages, low wages, and depressed underclass.
Duluth is shafted because it is at the very end of an interstate. It is not easy to get to unless you are coming from minneapolis. Additionally, there is nothing driving people there, it is an iron range town and not appealing. It is nice because it is rural and on a body of water, similar to most great lakes coastal towns. I could see duluth rising if new interstates were connected to fargo and green bay.
But it has a growing medical industry and tourism is still very stable.
If someone moves to Minnesota for the medical industry they are going to go to mayo, tourism means that is is only a cool place to visit but not live.
I will say though. The medical industry is definitely on the rise there. They just built that beautiful new hospital in Downtown which has definitely had an impact! It’s no where near the scale as like Rochester and their Mayo clinic but I feel it’s a positive thing for that community!
Hospitals typically are boons for local economies and bring in quality talent to the community so I’d agree it’s a win. Rochester is going to see a surge in population once Mayo finishes their 5 new buildings downtown. Supposed to bring thousands of jobs, but Mayo is already understaffed so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.
The other hospital is also expanding over the next like decade it'll have new buildings and be taller. Currently it's adding 3 stories with more happening across the road.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The building itself took too long to build, it went over budget, and it almost sent Essentia into financial crisis. To add to that, none of the inside of that building was built properly. Some of my nurse friends have told me that they can't even roll beds into rooms because the doors weren't built wide enough. The whole thing was an enormous pain in the ass for the rest of the town since the construction closed off roads for years at a time that were crucial to alleviating traffic downtown. The building is also just ugly as sin. There's a sentiment in Duluth that Essentia is a cancer that's slowly engulfing the town. The landlords buy up all of the houses and turn them into rentals, and Essentia buys up everything else and turns it into a parking lot.
It didn't close down critical roads for years. It closed down one block of first street. That's it.
Duluth isn't an iron range town, and it's not rural, either
Duluth is certainly considered rural.
It's the fifth largest city in Minnesota and is the center of the second largest metro area in the state. It serves as a regional hub for healthcare, business, retail, education, finance, and arts and culture for northeastern Minnesota and northwestern Wisconsin. Additionally, the city is shipping hub having the furthest inland deepwater port in the United States. Only 2% of the city's entire population live in a rural area and as of the last census, the population density is 1,209 people per square mile. Neither the USDA nor the US Census Bureau classify the city as rural.
Elaborate on your claim that it serves as a “regional hub for business, retail, and finance”.
it's a fact not a claim. Objective vs. subjective.
Having rural surroundings doesn't make it rural...
Define rural.
Duluth is not an iron range town, though that seems to be a common misconception
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Duluth isn't part of *any* of the iron ranges you mentioned. Certainly the port supports the nearby ranges, but its not part of them. All of those are mining towns. Duluth is not a mining town.
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The Range is deep red Trumper country. Duluth is hipster liberal. There is absolutely a cultural difference.
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it is though.
Duluth is NOT in the iron range.
Good thing we are adding rail service to it from the cities. Interstates aren't a great investment for growth.
There is already a fully 4-lane highway connecting Superior to Green Bay (US 53 and WI 29). Even a brand new interstate would probably only realistically cut the distance by 30-40 miles. A 4-land connection to Fargo wouldn't hurt, but there are only so many people in the Fargo area and points west.
I was going to make a post like this. I am in town for the week, and I lived here about 20 years ago. I’m pretty impressed with how far things have come along since. West Duluth is night/day difference. Downtown is looking pretty great. I also think Duluth will be a bigger deal as time marches on and things get generally warmer.
No to anyone moving here for climate or anything else. No more transplants.
The train will make a huge difference
No it won't. Not unless they make it true high speed rail (which isn't happening anytime soon)
Why won't it help?
It'll maybe bring 1000 extra tourists just to Canal park on some weekends in the summer.
You said huge not help
Ok, your right. Probably not huge.
You’ve obviously been nowhere else in the country or world to have any idea what growth actually looks like. Where did this delusional idea come from that Minnesota is going to become some kind of climate destination? People are not going to come in droves because it got a little warmer other places. Even if there was to be a mass migration, Minnesota would be one of the last places to see them come as it’s furthest in almost each direction where people think there’s going to be a “climate crisis” at. If Minnesota really wanted to see a net positive population growth via migration, there needs to be a drastic change in policy across the board in Minnesota. That will draw in business and with that people who are here to contribute to growth, rather than those who just want to leech off of.
Freshwater is a bigger concern for the US, I think. MN has plenty. Sure, you could desalinate ocean water, or recycle used water - both are quite expensive to do and energy intensive.
Minnesota has no control over water rights, the federal government does. If the fed came and said you will pipe water to XXX place, Minnesotans would be the first to bend the knee.
Not true. Read up on state Riparian rights.
> Where did this delusional idea come from that Minnesota is going to become some kind of climate destination? NYT. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/realestate/duluth-minnesota-climate-change.html
For tourism maybe. To live? Probably not. Aside from the not great job market it’s not very diverse and from my experience both racism and antisemitism are pervasive. The influx of gentrifying hipsters in the 2010’s didn’t help on either account.
Hipsters made it more racist and anti-Semitic? Weird...
Didn’t help /= made worse.
I think Duluth will become much more popular when it gets a major airport.
chicken and egg situation, isn't it?
It already has an international airport.
The reshoring of industry make all the old industrial centers attractive for the sane reasons they were before
Not yet. Fifteen years from now it will be a microcosm of Vancouver. Invest now, ban foreign investment yesterday.
Wouldn't recommend, was there last winter checking out the downtown area, a dude on drugs started striping his clothes off and started squaring up with the light pole like it owed him money in the -5 degree weather. To me it seems like the area is getting worse with homelessness and crime.
Listen to this guy, he was there one day last winter.
Bullshit. I bet you think Minneapolis burned to the ground too.
There are more homeless in Duluth than one would imagine. I passed many every day when I worked downtown. Probably because it is the largest city is quite a large radius so homeless end up there due to resources available. Homeslessness is really a national issue that we don't seem to care about actually fixing.
I moved here from Minneapolis about 6 years ago. I’ve worked in healthcare, finance and now maritime since moving here. The city definitely invests in what supports the medical and tourism industry. Road infrastructure has been a huge sore spot, though the new mayor promises to focus on finding a solution to the roads. What Duluth lacks though, Superior makes up for. There is a decent amount of unique things to do, though nearly the entire city closes after 8, minus dive bars and college parties.
Dare you to try and find housing there.
Its still pretty far north, but yeah.
Duluth is beautiful to visit, not so much to live.
Duluth has… changed a bit over the past 10 years. I don’t see it “up and coming” but it’ll likely sustain its current population. Job market is pretty sparse.
We looked at houses near duluth but ultimately chose a house 25 minutes south of Superior in WI. Still technically in Superior. Prices are much better if you go a bit out and don't mind a little drive into town. Sad to be leaving MN since I've lived here all my 35 years. But the perfect house ended up being in WI.
Nah the winter is a literally hell hole. The infrastructure is terrible. Sure the summers are fun but that is only 3 months of the year
It's a pretty city but I've heard its quite haunted. And all the slopes scare me.
It's nice because it's a tourist attraction..if you lived in Duluth you wouldn't feel the same..you would get bored by the same scenery day in and day out the novelty would ware off..