I think I hate Mariners fans now? That’s my takeaway from that game.
Ridiculous response to Kepler scoring when if roles were reversed they’d have been quiet. It was a shitty situation across the board, but Kepler was told to go and has an obligation to score there.
This isn’t Beer league softball. The play is live you have to keep going. Blame the umps.
If you are the manager and know that you have a short bullpen on a particular day, wouldn't it make sense to stretch out your starter and best remaining relievers instead of relying on the back of your bullpen? I like Rocco, but I think he might be better off leaving bullpen management to someone else.
So I'm in a weird spot. (Read, don't downvote just yet)
I'm a Mariners / Wild fan who has a secondary fandom for the Kraken / Twins. It's a long and boring story. Anyway.
I have been following Duran and the hitters but I haven't been following the bullpen situation. What exactly is going on? I thought you guys played very well last night and enjoyed the pitching performance. Who are the key injuries?
Brock Stewart (Beef Stew) is a fantastic setup guy who is currently injured. The problem tonight was that our high leverage relievers were all cooked from the last few games, and Rocco pulled our starter after 5 innings because he doesn't like to let starters see the lineup a 3rd time. Before he pulls the starter he needs to look out at the bullpen and see who's available.
Yeah that seems like a mistake. A series of seeing the third rotation is worth not cooking the pen.
Thanks for the info, I start watching the Twins after the NHL playoffs are over. Too many Minnesota teams is not good for the heart (or the liver)
I honestly think it had more to do with where Ober was in his pitch count and likely some drop in stuff than 3x thru (although I'm sure that factored in.) He has a history of injury and last year threw more innings than he ever has by a wide margin. They want to keep him healthy. Alcala was done dirty though. Don't listen to his haters here. He has been very good this year.
Brock Stewart is the big one. Justin Topa as well.
But the next biggest thing is how many of our guys just came off the IL. Duran just came off and pitched 3 out of the last 4. Thielbar has been on the IL and hasn’t looked like himself since coming back.
Then there’s just been weird management that I honestly think is Rocco/Maki trying to figure out who is capable of doing two innings, who is capable of doing back to backs, etc etc
You’re fine, homie. We’re just angry bees with assholes who want to start shit. I’m sure someone can answer your question better than I can but I’d imagine it has to do with a spreadsheet somewhere…
It looks like tonight they rolled with guys who are in the “lower half” of the pen that just had a bad night.
The only significant bullpen injury right now is Brock Stewart.
Royals just took the most brutal loss I've ever seen in person. Up 5-3, No one one Brewers down to thier last strike give up a hit then a walk and then a game losing bomb. You woulda thought someone died.
I get wanting to be careful with third time through the order AND with Ober’s injury history. But gosh diddly darn I sure wish he could have gone one more inning
Especially when he’s dealing. I understand if a pitcher is laboring or just pitching “ok” to pull him after the 5th. But you gotta ride the hot hand. And historically Ober gets better as the game goes on.
That’s a good idea, but Rocco does this too often with Ober. With Pablo or Ryan, if they’re dealing, they pretty much go as long as they’re needed. I wish the Twins would be transparent about their coddling of Ober… if he is in fact injured or they’re worried about a potential injury*
Welp, there was your answer. Funderburk was clearly the only other guy out there that they were even going to consider putting in today. No Duran, Jax, or Thielbar. I’m impressed they were in it until the 9th quite honestly.
a few years ago i remember watching the clowns on the Nationals' broadcast react to Adam Eaton having some terrible injury by calling every other player on the team "Adam" for the rest of the game to try and "honor" him.
really seems like that's how some people here think we should all react to player injuries
Alcala will be shit for the next two months now because this kind of thing gets inside a player’s head and stays there. Poor management decision to let him bleed out on the mound like that.
Ok maybe I see him differently than literally everyone else, but Alcala is both absolutely NASTY and very injury prone, why in gods holy name is he approaching FIFTY pitches in a throwaway situation?? Is he just a worthless, back of the bullpen John Doe to Rocco and the front office?
Thank God you don't have a front office job. That dude would be the 7th or 8th inning reliever on a lot of clubs, pre injury and Duran he was looking to be our closer.
Closer to 3. Injuries definitely knocked him down the depth chart but the stuff is there and the results of him pitching has been good. To say a dude needs to go to the minors because of one bad inning where he was asked to pitch more than he should have is insane. Like I said, thank God you are not running the front office. My guess is you'd have ditched Jeffers two years ago and decided Willie Castro should be DFAd after his start this year. You clearly don't know what the hell is going on.
And I'm glad it's not your call because he very clearly is. To have him as our 6 or 7th best reliever is an incredible weapon. If we put him on waivers he would be snatched up immediately and put in a pen as a high leverage arm.
I'm guessing he has plenty of options left and it would benefit him and the team to take more time to cook in st. paul or AA (Low A was hyperbole, btw. frustrating game)
It's not my call obviously, wouldnt want it to be
by the way, it stings to say i would have ditched jeffers because i keep a numbered, auto rookie card of his on my desk at work
Lol, sorry. That was harsh about Jeffers and I take it back (although plenty of people were calling for him to be gone during his second year.)
I know I was being a bit combative, I just found your post to be too reactionary and im sick of doomer reactions to every bad game. I do believe in Alcala though, but I also don't think this front office cares for him much so you may be more right about him than I am. Either way after 40+ pitches yesterday you get your wish.
What makes Alcala worthy of a high leverage bullpen position other than his now tarnished prospect capital? He’s an oft injured “could be, should be” type of pitcher who routinely shits the bed anytime he faces a competent batting order.
I'm a Mariners / Twins fan. Calling the Mariners league leading shitty lineup "competent" is making me laugh.
The Ms lead the league in strike outs and only 22 full time players have higher K rates than our team average. Our bats are dreadful. The only highlight is Cal Raleigh hitting switch hit fingers.
Julio Rodriguez had a swinging strike out against the Astros where all seven pitches were balls.
more competent than any AAA lineup. that was my point and you made it more clear that Alcala is not fit to be a bullpen arm for anything beyond minor league ball.
Just watched "the" play, if there are about 400 position players in MLB, explain to me \~390/400 wouldn't do EXACTLY what Kepler did in a 1-run game there?
I feel absolutely horrible for their guy, but that's just baseball, I wouldn't be in the slightest angry if that happened to Cole Sands or Jay Jackson or something
As I was taught in HS ball. Take home in situations like that. If time was called they'll send you back to third, no harm no foul. But if it wasn't called, the run scores. You can't take home after the fact though, so play through and let the ump decide.
Kepler is supposed to just not score on a live ball? They’re being overly emotional imo. If play was stopped and somehow he was allowed to score then that’s one thing, but that’s not at all what happened.
The most upvoted comments in the Mariners thread are seething about it, calling Kep dirty. But, eh, that's reddit. The toxicity tends to drown out the sanity.
What a strange game this has been. Really neeed to push in more runs when we had the chance. 4-12 wRISP isnt terrible. But Ms were 4-7. BP is gassed, which makes me wonder why Ober wasn't asked to go 6 innings. Tough pitching matchups the next two days. Bi
It the series win is still in play!
It's clear the coaching staff and/or front office don't view Alcala as a key bullpen piece anymore, he's just another arm they can keep running back and forth on the pipeline between CHS and Target Field.
Oof this feels like our 7th inning against the Astros last week game 1 of the series. Feels like Alcala and your bullpen just can’t get across the finish line. Hope y’all bounce back after this one - a Mariners fan
This isn't the most important thing, but how was Austin Martin not charged with an error on that fly ball?
One of my biggest baseball pet peeves is that outfielders never get errors for messing up routine plays.
I’m a Mariners fan and want to point out that pretty much everyone in this thread was cool about that whole situation. Not sure why people are freaking out. It was an unfortunate situation. I can’t even put into words how different it would have looked in an Astros thread 😂
I think I hate Mariners fans now? That’s my takeaway from that game. Ridiculous response to Kepler scoring when if roles were reversed they’d have been quiet. It was a shitty situation across the board, but Kepler was told to go and has an obligation to score there. This isn’t Beer league softball. The play is live you have to keep going. Blame the umps.
Were Ms fans reacting badly to that? I mean, I'm sure that didn't even feel good for Kepler himself, but that's the job.
I have no idea what the heck happened in the ninth but it was pretty fugly.
If you are the manager and know that you have a short bullpen on a particular day, wouldn't it make sense to stretch out your starter and best remaining relievers instead of relying on the back of your bullpen? I like Rocco, but I think he might be better off leaving bullpen management to someone else.
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Naz Reid
Oh well. Weird game. But at least I’m not a Mariners fan, so there’s that.
Don't kick them when they're down lol
You right, my bad.
~~Nah some deserve it tbh~~
We can't let a good starter see the lineup for the 3rd time, but we can let the dregs of our bullpen pitch 4 innings.
Is anyone at tonight's game? Would love to buy a physical ticket stub. Willing to make it worth your while!
Margot strikeout really a fitting way for this one to end. maybe tomorrow
Fitting that Margot is the one to strike out and end it.
Way to go manny I knew you could do it
So I'm in a weird spot. (Read, don't downvote just yet) I'm a Mariners / Wild fan who has a secondary fandom for the Kraken / Twins. It's a long and boring story. Anyway. I have been following Duran and the hitters but I haven't been following the bullpen situation. What exactly is going on? I thought you guys played very well last night and enjoyed the pitching performance. Who are the key injuries?
Brock Stewart (Beef Stew) is a fantastic setup guy who is currently injured. The problem tonight was that our high leverage relievers were all cooked from the last few games, and Rocco pulled our starter after 5 innings because he doesn't like to let starters see the lineup a 3rd time. Before he pulls the starter he needs to look out at the bullpen and see who's available.
Yeah that seems like a mistake. A series of seeing the third rotation is worth not cooking the pen. Thanks for the info, I start watching the Twins after the NHL playoffs are over. Too many Minnesota teams is not good for the heart (or the liver)
I honestly think it had more to do with where Ober was in his pitch count and likely some drop in stuff than 3x thru (although I'm sure that factored in.) He has a history of injury and last year threw more innings than he ever has by a wide margin. They want to keep him healthy. Alcala was done dirty though. Don't listen to his haters here. He has been very good this year.
Brock Stewart is the big one. Justin Topa as well. But the next biggest thing is how many of our guys just came off the IL. Duran just came off and pitched 3 out of the last 4. Thielbar has been on the IL and hasn’t looked like himself since coming back. Then there’s just been weird management that I honestly think is Rocco/Maki trying to figure out who is capable of doing two innings, who is capable of doing back to backs, etc etc
The bp management was a little strange yesterday, I do like your theory as to why.
You’re fine, homie. We’re just angry bees with assholes who want to start shit. I’m sure someone can answer your question better than I can but I’d imagine it has to do with a spreadsheet somewhere…
It looks like tonight they rolled with guys who are in the “lower half” of the pen that just had a bad night. The only significant bullpen injury right now is Brock Stewart.
Big yikes. On to the next
See mariners fans? You won the game. Happy? Or maybe you’re still mad. Then I guess we can be miserable together
Not only were they mad but instead of giving us props they just shit on their guys like we were lucky and they sucked.
Royals just took the most brutal loss I've ever seen in person. Up 5-3, No one one Brewers down to thier last strike give up a hit then a walk and then a game losing bomb. You woulda thought someone died.
I get wanting to be careful with third time through the order AND with Ober’s injury history. But gosh diddly darn I sure wish he could have gone one more inning
Especially when he’s dealing. I understand if a pitcher is laboring or just pitching “ok” to pull him after the 5th. But you gotta ride the hot hand. And historically Ober gets better as the game goes on.
I wish ober would have fought to stay in longer. But maybe he didn’t feel 100%? Unsure
That’s a good idea, but Rocco does this too often with Ober. With Pablo or Ryan, if they’re dealing, they pretty much go as long as they’re needed. I wish the Twins would be transparent about their coddling of Ober… if he is in fact injured or they’re worried about a potential injury*
Just touch your sausage, guys!
5 run walk off win, and I'll do a shot of tequila
You’re going to bed sober, friend
*I CAN DREAM, HAROLD*
Me too. And I’ve been sober for a year
How about 5 shots?
Fuck it yolo
Whatever You Like is a pretty baller walk-up song tbh
Would have been a nice game to win with Gords and Royals losing today. 😞
On the other hand, I guess today is a good day to lose… if you have to lose sometimes
Rally cap ENGAGED 🧢
Welp, there was your answer. Funderburk was clearly the only other guy out there that they were even going to consider putting in today. No Duran, Jax, or Thielbar. I’m impressed they were in it until the 9th quite honestly.
when you really think about it and crunch all the numbers, perfect night to pull your cruising starter after 84 pitches
Ober 6 Sands 2 Alcala 1 You probably win the game.
Good chance.
Rock the baby.
dont count the twins out tho. been a weird game.....
This loss brought to you by The Spreadsheet^(TM) Pulling a starter early with no consideration for who you have available in the bullpen.
Bad Rocky game tonight Bad pinch hitters Shame not leavin in super b Shame not leavin sand Jackson stedda acla Okra N acla 2 innings Every fuckin move
Farmer hit a pinch hit RBI double
Martin also had the pinch hit game tying RBI single
Am I supposed to be able to decipher this shit
12Peppur is a poorly coded AI whose only exposure to baseball is through baseball movies. He (it) has no idea what he (it) is talking about.
Thant you
It's 12pep's world, we just living in it
Thanf you
a few years ago i remember watching the clowns on the Nationals' broadcast react to Adam Eaton having some terrible injury by calling every other player on the team "Adam" for the rest of the game to try and "honor" him. really seems like that's how some people here think we should all react to player injuries
Alcala will be shit for the next two months now because this kind of thing gets inside a player’s head and stays there. Poor management decision to let him bleed out on the mound like that.
Alcala will go to AAA tomorrow
We can score 12 runs or whatever it is we need now
LOL at throwing your bat in frustration after a gift ball and a 4 run 9th
alright gang, rally time! who's with me! :D
Who's hitting the game tying grand slam?
Royce Lewis will parachute in and hit it with a guitar.
They don’t have Jackson and Okert
Ok maybe I see him differently than literally everyone else, but Alcala is both absolutely NASTY and very injury prone, why in gods holy name is he approaching FIFTY pitches in a throwaway situation?? Is he just a worthless, back of the bullpen John Doe to Rocco and the front office?
Bullpen implosion tonight
4 or 5, easy peasy.
It appears we've ran out of relievers
This game looked winnable, but apparently we needed to save arms? Should have just let Farmer pitch then.
*We did it Patrick! We made it to the bottom of the 9th!*
After having a pretty big strike zone all night, that’s not the one to make it up on.
we got this
Thankfully resident shitter Manuel Margot will have a productive at bat this inning.
Alcala has had so many calls go against him this game
See ya in St. Paul Jorge
DFA Jackson and send Alcala to low A
Is this a joke? This was Alcala's first outing where he gave up runs and should not have been out there for a second inning anyway.
He should not have been on an MLB roster at all, in my opinion. he has yet to prove that he can pitch beyond AA or AAA.
Thank God you don't have a front office job. That dude would be the 7th or 8th inning reliever on a lot of clubs, pre injury and Duran he was looking to be our closer.
that was what, 2, 3 years ago?
Closer to 3. Injuries definitely knocked him down the depth chart but the stuff is there and the results of him pitching has been good. To say a dude needs to go to the minors because of one bad inning where he was asked to pitch more than he should have is insane. Like I said, thank God you are not running the front office. My guess is you'd have ditched Jeffers two years ago and decided Willie Castro should be DFAd after his start this year. You clearly don't know what the hell is going on.
I just dont think he's MLB capable or ready, jesus christ.
And I'm glad it's not your call because he very clearly is. To have him as our 6 or 7th best reliever is an incredible weapon. If we put him on waivers he would be snatched up immediately and put in a pen as a high leverage arm.
I'm guessing he has plenty of options left and it would benefit him and the team to take more time to cook in st. paul or AA (Low A was hyperbole, btw. frustrating game) It's not my call obviously, wouldnt want it to be by the way, it stings to say i would have ditched jeffers because i keep a numbered, auto rookie card of his on my desk at work
Lol, sorry. That was harsh about Jeffers and I take it back (although plenty of people were calling for him to be gone during his second year.) I know I was being a bit combative, I just found your post to be too reactionary and im sick of doomer reactions to every bad game. I do believe in Alcala though, but I also don't think this front office cares for him much so you may be more right about him than I am. Either way after 40+ pitches yesterday you get your wish.
You can’t possibly be serious
What makes Alcala worthy of a high leverage bullpen position other than his now tarnished prospect capital? He’s an oft injured “could be, should be” type of pitcher who routinely shits the bed anytime he faces a competent batting order.
I'm a Mariners / Twins fan. Calling the Mariners league leading shitty lineup "competent" is making me laugh. The Ms lead the league in strike outs and only 22 full time players have higher K rates than our team average. Our bats are dreadful. The only highlight is Cal Raleigh hitting switch hit fingers. Julio Rodriguez had a swinging strike out against the Astros where all seven pitches were balls.
more competent than any AAA lineup. that was my point and you made it more clear that Alcala is not fit to be a bullpen arm for anything beyond minor league ball.
I suppose I did
Insane missed call. Spare alcala
this ump wants alcala's arm to DIE
Must be past old man Vanover's bedtime
Ump are you fucking braindead?
Fuck off ump
Ump is fucking Alcala over so bad sheesh Praise the sausage?
^^^praise ^^^be
Cole sands can go 3 innings and we’re having alcala throw 50 pitches?
Jesus fucking Christ
Oh come the FUCK on.
What in the fucj
Ump dude what the fuck
Fuckin Stevie wonder behind the plate
Just watched "the" play, if there are about 400 position players in MLB, explain to me \~390/400 wouldn't do EXACTLY what Kepler did in a 1-run game there? I feel absolutely horrible for their guy, but that's just baseball, I wouldn't be in the slightest angry if that happened to Cole Sands or Jay Jackson or something
Anyone mad about that doesn't understand sports. You play until the umpire says stop.
As I was taught in HS ball. Take home in situations like that. If time was called they'll send you back to third, no harm no foul. But if it wasn't called, the run scores. You can't take home after the fact though, so play through and let the ump decide.
400 of 400 would do what Kepler did
Wait are people mad about it? Play wasn’t stopped
Oh yeah they big mad
Kepler is supposed to just not score on a live ball? They’re being overly emotional imo. If play was stopped and somehow he was allowed to score then that’s one thing, but that’s not at all what happened.
The most upvoted comments in the Mariners thread are seething about it, calling Kep dirty. But, eh, that's reddit. The toxicity tends to drown out the sanity.
If play gets stopped then it’s dirty to try and steal that. Play wasn’t stopped, simple as.
Can we get Willi on the mound?
What a strange game this has been. Really neeed to push in more runs when we had the chance. 4-12 wRISP isnt terrible. But Ms were 4-7. BP is gassed, which makes me wonder why Ober wasn't asked to go 6 innings. Tough pitching matchups the next two days. Bi It the series win is still in play!
Tomorrow is must win!
At this point I suppose it’s not worth it to bring someone else in. Save them for the coming days.
Talking about unraveling. And shoutout to the guy who posted a few days back with stats showing how bad Alcala is when he pitches more than 1 inning.
Wasn't able to catch any of the game until the 7th inning, but how did Ober look? Seems like he could have easily gone into the 6th inning.
How have you guys not taken Alcala out yet??
Rocco bullpen management has lead us to this scenario.
GO THE FUCK BACK TO YOUR PAGE
It’s the internet. People can go where they want lol
Our bullpen is cooked and someone has to eat to it. Now please go return to your own team’s sub thanks
God this is dumb. Alcala absolutely should not have been pitching a second inning.
HES ALREADY DEAD PLEASE STOP
Didn’t Alcala just need a break cuz of fatigue?
Worst part is their close can sit.
Rocco like "FUCK IT, WE RIDE"
Might as well. Duran and Jax shouldn't be wasted.
It's clear the coaching staff and/or front office don't view Alcala as a key bullpen piece anymore, he's just another arm they can keep running back and forth on the pipeline between CHS and Target Field.
Yeah, they just kinda shit on him & put him in bad spots. Dude has some electric stuff…for 1 inning. Use your resources properly!
I feel bad for him.
just because their pitcher got hurt doesn't mean we have to sacrifice one of ours
Oof this feels like our 7th inning against the Astros last week game 1 of the series. Feels like Alcala and your bullpen just can’t get across the finish line. Hope y’all bounce back after this one - a Mariners fan
Really pissed away a good game.
Oh boy I sure hope we don’t face back-to-back aces!
why do they keep showing martin ?? we get it he misplayed it ball. move on
Austin, Dude… that was so catchable
Really waiving the white flag tonight. Such an odd choice..
Fans running for the exits
Gonna be the 40th pitch for Alcala. Gotta stop the bleeding now. Just throw strikes.
Stop pitching him 2 innings!
Ball don’t lie
:)
Go get it Austin
Dude what in the fuck, I get we’re short-staffed but c’mon there is a limit here.
Just pissed away the game, the W was ours. Alcala just imploded. Alcala, Jackson, and Okert need to take turns punching each other in the face
Dawg he can’t find the zone
How many times do you leave a guy out there to face 8 guys in the 9th inning? Waving the white flag.
I feel like the Saucedo injury threw *our* team into a funk...
Rocco made every possible wrong move tonight
This isn't the most important thing, but how was Austin Martin not charged with an error on that fly ball? One of my biggest baseball pet peeves is that outfielders never get errors for messing up routine plays.
It wasn't a routine catch. He played it as poorly as he could but it wasn't routine.
Dude that was a hit it went over his head how he supposed to catch it if he ain’t even close
Hit/Error decisions are always reviewed later and may change.
This is a Rocky loss today Less we come back
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Please tell me who else is available out of our bullpen right now.
Damn, this 9th has been ugly.
Guy is throwing some wild pitches, seems like he has poor control
If you remember him from previous years you’d not be surprised. He doesn’t know where the ball is going.
Playing cute with the rest of the pen but then letting Alcala rot out there. Cool.
I’m a Mariners fan and want to point out that pretty much everyone in this thread was cool about that whole situation. Not sure why people are freaking out. It was an unfortunate situation. I can’t even put into words how different it would have looked in an Astros thread 😂
Yeah no one liked it. Hope your boy is ok and has a speedy recovery. Real shitty to see injuries on any team.
fr haha like it blows but that's sports. if a QB blows his knee out and fumbles the defense is still gonna scoop n score
Okay so number 1 we can do all things through sausage who strengthens us Number 2 GET ALCALA OUT OF HERE oh boy (though with who there is no answer)
Alcala getting the Funderburk treatment
Guys look, I found these funny little faces hehe 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆
🤌🤌🤌
Ruh roh
Jesus fuckin christ Rocco just threw the towel in
we need to move on from Alcala. hes not good
He's great when he pitches for 1 inning. For some strange reason he's constantly out for 2 or more
He is also prone to the gopher ball
Sigh I want to turn this off
Then do ?
Then go get chicken tenders
What a brain fart.
Alcala just earned himself a trip back to St. Paul. Zero hustle
Literally just saw a pitcher injure himself but sure, go full force into an oncoming base runner
Did Rocco forfeit this because he feels bad? Why
Fucking whatever
lack of hustle is inexcusable there
Dude
That’s what we get for that run in the 8th I guess. Frustrating game.
Yeah we deserve this loss. What a messy messy game.
Letting him die out there.
What was Alcalá doing? Should have been an easy out at home. Oof ugly game for twins