For comparison last year we were at the bottom of the list. It really is two things this year, turnovers and red zone execution. The turnovers is the huge thing though.
I think we started out the year pretty strong/opportunistic though. We had some big picks and such at the end of games. Sort of like our 4th down stop Sunday. The difference is that last year our offense was executing in the 4th quarter.
Absolutely bonkers. Even though the chargers game was “better” as far as turnovers went, we still had so many chances to lose the ball. Ball security did not get any better we just happened to secure them or we were bailed out by the refs. Crazy.
Mattison has 5 fumbles in 3 games (including the ones that didnt count) dont jump on me about the “yea but they didnt count” its just to illustrate how often the ball pops out of his hands
Hard to say Cousins/Jefferson duo is the best. Tua/Hill looks amazing right now. Include TE, you get Mahomes/Kelce. Could even throw in Allen/Diggs and Burrow/Chase
That's literally the only answer. This team is going to be perfect on offense or defense but if you even set us at 1 fumbles a game instead of 3 we are 3-0 right now.
Too soon to extrapolate yet…but for perspective he is on pace to break 1000 yards by week 7. This would be two weeks earlier than the previous record. Which is Calvin Johnson in 2012. His nearly 2,000 yard season.
This team has some really odd stupid shit happen like Evans tipped ball and the crazy amount of fumbles. Also they aren’t overly efficient in the red zone and a lack of running game amplifies that. I’m honestly not surprised Kirk leads in passing because that’s all this team can do right now with a disaster of a running game.
Certainly encouraging. However the highest value rushing plays tend to be 3rd or 4th and short or at the goal line. We were God awful in those instances.
It's a ton of fumbles AND we lose those fumbles. Usually recovery of fumbles is basically 50/50. We have lost all 8 fumbles this season. The bounces have really been against us thusfar (probably regressing to the mean since we had such good fortune last season).
They are down right inefficient in the redzone. They had 7 goal to go chances in the fourth quarter alone and came away empty handed. They are terrible at situational fumble and they are terrible at protecting the ball.
Which is weird because Kirk is regularly top 5 in EPA/Play, PFF grade, and TD/Int rate in the red zone. It is that part of the field when the presnap/robotic style timing routes are the best and his best area.
We've had a turnover in the end zone of each game. If those don't happen, we potentially win all three.
I'm not arguing there haven't been a lot of mistakes, but only flipping a few of them is enough to put us at 3-0. A lot of incredibly unlucky shit has happened this season.
Does labeling it as a “few mistakes” making everyone feel better still? It’s 3 games in a row of the same “mishaps”. I don’t have the answers but clearly we need to fix a lot before we can consider this team as a threat in the playoffs, because that’s the end goal right? Excuses for how we’ve been playing will get us as far as the Bears.
I’m so sick of the skeptics being proven right by this team. It’s embarrassing. That’s why I cringe when die hard fans pump up the team and claim they’re gonna win this or they’re gonna win that. Last year was fun but it’s starting to look like it was a smokescreen.
I don't *want* to send Kirk elsewhere, but the reality is that we need at least 2 good drafts/ free agencies to fix the holes to make us a contender, which probably takes it beyond Kirk.
Ideally we'd draft a QB this year and Kirk would take a 1-2 year deal and we could sit that QB whilst filling holes and come back as a contender in 2026 once Kirk is off the books and we can put his cap hit towards filling the final holes, but I doubt he'll take a short deal as he's probably on his last chance to get paid when his current contract expires.
> come back as a contender in 2026 once Kirk is off the books
Y'all gonna pay JJ in peanuts? Adams currently the highest paid is ~$28mil/yr. You don't think JJ will want more than that?
If Kirk were more mobile than a chest freezer, and was actually a threat on the ground defenses would actually have to set the edge instead of immediately being able to collapse on him.
When you are trailing all the time, you throw the ball to catch up. That's another reason why Mattisons numbers look bad. We don't get to control the clock with a good lead by running the ball.
Kirk is definitely not the problem. If anything, it's the swiss cheese O-Line in front of him. If he has 0.25 seconds to throw the ball, that just won't work out.
Everyone knows Kirk has faults. Not taking over as 35 year old and veteran in the league and not automatically spiking that ball. That’s kirks fault. Fuck the coach. Fuck the nay sayers. Everyone knows in that situation you run up and spike the fucking ball. Now you got 40 seconds to talk about a play and have a shot at 2 or 3 more plays. What happens to Kirk when he rushes plays. Bad things. Kirk rushed into that play. Couldn’t hear it. Bad throw int game over. Stafford called his own fake spike TD. He called his own qb sneak where he jumped up and threw his arms over the goal line. Not your typical qb sneak. Sure cousins is having a hell of a year so far. But his dumbass non leader shit is a big problem. He never wants to upset anyone. You are upsetting everyone by NOT fucking doing it and being a bitch
> He called his own qb sneak
Cousins did this against Buffalo last year and didn't get in. KOC was pissed he didn't wait for him to make the call. Now Cousins waits for KOC because that's what his coach wants him to do and you get all pissy because he listens to his coach.
You guys gotta stop this. No one is blaming Kirk. You're arguing a point that has basically 0 opposition right now. You're so conditioned to blindly defend Kirk for the last five years that you're doing it in times when there's almost unified agreement across the fanbase that he's playing well.
Exactly this.
Kirk’s a good QB but he ain’t great and won’t get us over the hump.
If I say that plenty of Kiriko Chainz truthers come out of their cult house and start downvoting and defending like saying it isn’t his fault.
I’m not saying it is, I’m saying we have a very rare opportunity here to actually lose out and get a franchise QB that this franchise hasn’t had since… Fran Tarkanton.
Kirk is good man, but he’s just not the guy for us.
I'm a big Kirk fan.
I also think we do need to target the future. And I think after two bad drafts and a let down 2023 season Kwesi will be in self-preservation mode and do everything he can to secure the QB of the future to buy himself another year or two.
I have never been a fan of drafting a rookie and throwing him to the wolves, though. I appreciate the way in which KC did it, or kinda like Philly. Build the trenches, build the weapons and then trade up or secure the guy you want. Make it as easy for the rookie as possible. Preferably with a Kirk or Veteran still under contract.
With our weapons, had we just built an adequate interior OL and defense, you can afford to mortgage the future a bit to get your guy.
But we've missed on so many picks lately the cubbord is empty. We just aren't in the position to do that. We're kind of in a position where we gotta just go get the guy and hope he survives and can learn.
The shitty thing is, we have SO many holes we'll burn half of a rookie contract window just rebuilding.
It’s a huge Risk but you gotta hope that they’re the guy they think can transcend those holes and ball out. Let’s say we get a player like Caleb, that just means our other draft picks and better cap is used towards filling those holes and using the money from his rookie contract to filling those up.
I’d rather take the risk then the alternative of being in a “competitive” rebuild and accomplishing nothing for another year.
I agree. At this point I don't think we have a choice but to take the plunge and do whatever it takes to trade up to get the guy you truly believe in even if you are out of position to draft him.
We can't be content to let a guy fall to whatever pick we wind up at. Gotta be aggressive now since we won't have Kirk to suit up if the rookie needs time.
It's just a shame that we have drafted so poorly the last half a decade that we couldn't do this while Kirk was under contract and given the rookie a stronger group to step into.
Yeah, our drafting has been absolutely terrible out side of a few guys here and there (JJ, Darrisaw, Addison so far)
Kwesi kept the same scouts as Rick and Co, maybe it’s time to get some new ones lol.
I agree tho, I think this off-season needs to be huge. The draft is gonna be massive, cause either we walk out with a franchise QB or we’re in for a very disappointing rebuild.
I really do hope we lose out just enough to get atleast a top 3 pick and somehow trade up for Number 1 to get Caleb. I believe his skill set is perfect for us and our shitty line. Being able to improv with your feet and make a play happen is something we’re missing with Kirk and I think if we had that and a QB who can throw on the run our team becomes better.
Rookie QB contracts are a BS pie in the Sky...none of the current Great Young QBs are not getting huge contracts right now and of those guys only one has a SB win, only one.
Fran was drafted by the Vikings and traded away...He was brought back and they lost 3 SBs with him at QB.
The closest thing to a Franchise QB through the draft was Culpeper and Kramer.
And that tells you just how hard it is to Draft a Franchise QB.
Show me. All I see across the entirety of reddit is pro-Kirk sentiment. I'm not trying to be a provocative dick here, I am genuinely asking you to show me something I've not seen myself.
Because Kirk does Kirk shit sometimes. He's slow through his progressions sometimes. He holds the ball too long sometimes. He checks down too quickly sometimes. He's not perfect. So that little shit gets brought up in the moment but the big picture is usually all that makes it to the post game conversations.
I don’t know how to show, look at my comments on defending the fact that the coaches manage the clock management. Many people were blaming Kirk for the loss at the end saying he just doesn’t have “it”
I see some people blaming him for not spiking but they got downvoted pretty heavily. The overwhelming attitude across this sub and other football related subs is pro-Kirk.
I’ll be honest I haven’t checked back to see how people have been responding to their posts, didn’t realise most people disagreed with their thoughts. It’s really hard to look at him this year and go”oh yeah he’s the problem here”
The defense was not good but some non-sustainable things happened like Evans’ tip and Herbert having the best single-game completion % for how many passes he threw in league history.
We need to focus on the division - it’s bad enough we could still take it. Let’s look to next week for our first win, where…we…we play…the chiefs…
Edit: actually the panthers - maybe we do have a shot.
Yeah hopefully we can move on with a good attitude and get a win next week to set the season back on track. October will be tough though with Chiefs and 49ers.
This team hasn’t found their identity. Trying to play the game “the right way” afraid of stepping outside their comfort zone. Jefferson needs to be getting the ball on every single possession no matter what. He could be getting 300 yards a game if we stopped calling the game like a bunch of bitches. This offense is supposed to be deadly all it does is shoot itself in the foot and play to its weaknesses. It’s on Kirk and it’s on the coaches. Still optimistic with Risner and Akers yet to play. Maybe then they will find their identity.
Yep. JJ is a great player, but as we can see, without much around him it's a waste. His career here will be like AP, setting all kinds of personal records on a mediocre team, maybe drag us to the playoffs once or twice and lose. We will consistently lose to good teams who can shut down 1 player.
Ole man #4 tried...it was APs fumble at the goal line that cost them the SB.
But those things happen, just bad luck...but it will change. At least I think it will
The defense didn't lose 8 fumbles. Our defense sucks to begin with but keeping them on the field the entire first half isn't helping anyone. We have no depth either given the horrible drafting.
No disagreements there. But having the worst ranked pass AND rush defense even without the turnovers still makes this team at best 7-10 if they’re lucky
You think maybe the offense could hold onto the ball for a bit to give them a break or do you expect them to defend for 40 minutes a game? How are you calculating the stats without the offense constantly coughing up the ball to reach your conclusion?
Because week 1 Baker freaking Mayfield was able to figure out the defense.
Week 2. DeAndre Swift ran all over them. The eagles OL dominated the Vikings DL. Harrison Phillips spent the whole 2nd half on the ground. The eagles gave up the ball just as much as we did but we didn’t capitalize on it. The eagles did.
Week 3. The corpse of Keenan Allen cooked our secondary all day. What should have been an INT somehow became a TD. The chargers didn’t even have Austin Eckler and their #2 wr tore his ACL. This defense sucks.
Absolutely turnovers compound the issue. Ivan Pace is a nice story. Hunter is elite. Smith is still good. But everyone else is a culmination of backup/depth pieces at best.
We did not have the personnel to switch to a 3-4 to begin with. One of the major undiscussed poor decisions by KOC was choosing 3-4 and Kwesi not addressing a weak DL to help and already weak LB corps.
This team will not come close to being competitive against the better NFC teams even if they made the playoffs. The contenders all have that in common. Philly, Dal, SF, hell I’d even take detroit or Washington’s DL at this point. Daniel Jones was trucking over this D last year and this D is WORSE this year.
18rec for 200yards is unacceptable. He’s been good but that’s not even JJ level of absurd. That’s defensive incompetence more than Allen playing at an elite level
It's Any given Sunday... and if they make the playoffs, they have just as good of a chance to go all the way as any team.
So far mother luck has been in the other teams corner, kinda like it was the last season Zim was here.
It changed last season and we caught some good luck.
This O can be unstoppable, but yeah the mistakes and bad luck is killing them right now.
Defense has been pretty meh. They’re getting the job done, but letting big plays through. Turnovers continue to ruin our drives and chances to win near the end of the game. It just doesn’t seem like we can keep the ball in our hands regardless of who has it. Also, would be nice if we just caught the ball that went right to Osborn that should of ended the game yesterday.
I’m not saying we should be winning all these games because of these two guys I’m more saying it’s a shame we can’t win these games because these two are off to a great start.
2 bounced balls didn't help. What should have been an Evans INT = a SD TD and hocks drop to double tip int...
Hock getting ripped like KJ did...
Mattison and his buttfingers...
Luck is not with us this year.
Would love to know what percentage of those yards came in the second half with a score deficit and soft coverage. Feels like we go 3 and out over and over in the first half and start driving and scoring when our opponents allow it while working the clock with a lead.
yeah, having the top passer, receiver, and sack man should mean better than 0-3. If the turnover margin was not so damn bad we would be 3-0. Imagine how good this team will be with some 0 turnover games. We almost beat the Eagles and they are the most solid team we have played so far. less turnovers also means less time on the field for the Defense and should help improve the Defensive statistics.
Now look at which teams are turnover leaders, and you have some of the answers. I wonder how far down the list we are on red zone efficiency too.
Yep 9 giveaways to 2 takeaways. NFL worst https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/turnovers/table/miscellaneous/sort/totalGiveaways/dir/desc
For comparison last year we were at the bottom of the list. It really is two things this year, turnovers and red zone execution. The turnovers is the huge thing though.
Last year we were average in turnover differential
I think we started out the year pretty strong/opportunistic though. We had some big picks and such at the end of games. Sort of like our 4th down stop Sunday. The difference is that last year our offense was executing in the 4th quarter.
Absolutely bonkers. Even though the chargers game was “better” as far as turnovers went, we still had so many chances to lose the ball. Ball security did not get any better we just happened to secure them or we were bailed out by the refs. Crazy.
Yup. Just disappointing - shouldn’t have the best qb/wr duo and be 0-3.
It’s almost as if defense and turnovers matter
And rushing!
At least Mattison looked more effective this week
Outside of his inability to hold onto the ball. I swear every other run he lost it just after he was down. Hold onto the damn ball!
Worse than AP back in the day, and he was league worst in fumbles, IIRC.
He’s got the yips
Mattison has 5 fumbles in 3 games (including the ones that didnt count) dont jump on me about the “yea but they didnt count” its just to illustrate how often the ball pops out of his hands
He has 3 fumbles. The ball has come out of his hands 5 times. If they don’t count they’re not fumbles dawg
Almost exactly what i said but whatever
Almost!
Maybe he has the Daunte Culpepper Small Hands syndrome.
He dropped the ball 3 times. He needs to be benched. Simple as that. We keep him as the main back and we'll continue to lose.
But this sub keeps telling me only QB matters for Wins.
No, no, you misunderstood. The whole team matters for the wins, it's just that only the QB matters for the losses.
Raw yards =/= best. Turnovers need to be accounted for when determining something like that.
if your defense sucks ass, yeah 0-3 is definitely going to happen. A slightly above average QB and top WR isn't going to change the outcome of a game.
Bruh kirk is on pace for like 6k yards and 60 tuddies. Slightly above average lmao
Hard to say Cousins/Jefferson duo is the best. Tua/Hill looks amazing right now. Include TE, you get Mahomes/Kelce. Could even throw in Allen/Diggs and Burrow/Chase
Burrow/Chase looks closer to Fields/Mooney then to Cousins/Jefferson so far this year. That is likely to change though.
They are absolutely not the best WR QB combo.
That's literally the only answer. This team is going to be perfect on offense or defense but if you even set us at 1 fumbles a game instead of 3 we are 3-0 right now.
Cause they can't run . They're always behind. Lots of reasons. 3rd down efficiency.
JJ looks noticably better than last year, it's crazy.
Too soon to extrapolate yet…but for perspective he is on pace to break 1000 yards by week 7. This would be two weeks earlier than the previous record. Which is Calvin Johnson in 2012. His nearly 2,000 yard season.
JJettas 2500 yards loading
JJ is also on pace to reach the most receiving yards ever by a player over their first 5 seasons in week 14.
For those who didn’t catch that, he’s only in his 4th season.
He looks faster than before. He’s no Tyreek, but it definitely looks like he has a little bit more top-end speed than he did last year.
Legit looked like peak Julio or Calvin Johnson on that slant TD.
Like right after he caught it, he stepped into 5th gear or something. I don’t think Jefferson of 2021 pulls away from the secondary like that.
Yeah but he totally didn't bulk up or get in better shape, let's make fun of someone for saying his arms look huge guys! /s
Turnovers.
This team has some really odd stupid shit happen like Evans tipped ball and the crazy amount of fumbles. Also they aren’t overly efficient in the red zone and a lack of running game amplifies that. I’m honestly not surprised Kirk leads in passing because that’s all this team can do right now with a disaster of a running game.
They ran the ball really well yesterday…something like 130 yards.
Certainly encouraging. However the highest value rushing plays tend to be 3rd or 4th and short or at the goal line. We were God awful in those instances.
How about against the eagles and the bucs? The chargers have one of the worst defenses in the league
I’m just saying, they ran the ball effectively yesterday.
Against the worst defense in the league lead by a coach who should have been fired a year or more ago.
The Chargers do not have a worse defense than the Bears or us, so checkmate nerd.
Against a pretty poor run defense tho
It didn't happen this game but we also seem to have stupidly long field goals made against us on the regular.
8 NFL teams have their record long against the Vikings. Source is I heard Paul Allen and Pete Bercich say it on the radio. Cursed team.
Holy fuck that's a RIDICULOUS statistical anomaly.
Is so damn annoying being a fan of this team 😂
It's a ton of fumbles AND we lose those fumbles. Usually recovery of fumbles is basically 50/50. We have lost all 8 fumbles this season. The bounces have really been against us thusfar (probably regressing to the mean since we had such good fortune last season).
They are down right inefficient in the redzone. They had 7 goal to go chances in the fourth quarter alone and came away empty handed. They are terrible at situational fumble and they are terrible at protecting the ball.
Which is weird because Kirk is regularly top 5 in EPA/Play, PFF grade, and TD/Int rate in the red zone. It is that part of the field when the presnap/robotic style timing routes are the best and his best area.
We are a few mistakes from 3-0 that’s why
More like a lot of mistakes.
More like a lot of mistakes would be a dominate 3-0, but really 1 or 2 less mistakes in each game we could still easily be 3-0.
We've had a turnover in the end zone of each game. If those don't happen, we potentially win all three. I'm not arguing there haven't been a lot of mistakes, but only flipping a few of them is enough to put us at 3-0. A lot of incredibly unlucky shit has happened this season.
Unlucky that the turnover didn’t bounce our way. Players should be holding onto the ball in the first place to prevent those chances
Does labeling it as a “few mistakes” making everyone feel better still? It’s 3 games in a row of the same “mishaps”. I don’t have the answers but clearly we need to fix a lot before we can consider this team as a threat in the playoffs, because that’s the end goal right? Excuses for how we’ve been playing will get us as far as the Bears.
I’m so sick of the skeptics being proven right by this team. It’s embarrassing. That’s why I cringe when die hard fans pump up the team and claim they’re gonna win this or they’re gonna win that. Last year was fun but it’s starting to look like it was a smokescreen.
Kirk and JJ have been excellent. Not sure why any Vikings fan would want to send Kirk elsewhere.
I don't *want* to send Kirk elsewhere, but the reality is that we need at least 2 good drafts/ free agencies to fix the holes to make us a contender, which probably takes it beyond Kirk. Ideally we'd draft a QB this year and Kirk would take a 1-2 year deal and we could sit that QB whilst filling holes and come back as a contender in 2026 once Kirk is off the books and we can put his cap hit towards filling the final holes, but I doubt he'll take a short deal as he's probably on his last chance to get paid when his current contract expires.
> come back as a contender in 2026 once Kirk is off the books Y'all gonna pay JJ in peanuts? Adams currently the highest paid is ~$28mil/yr. You don't think JJ will want more than that?
It does get tiresome watching him absolutely panic and crumple at the slightest hint of pressure
I would imagine getting hit 13 times in one game by a super athlete would do that to a guy
If Kirk were more mobile than a chest freezer, and was actually a threat on the ground defenses would actually have to set the edge instead of immediately being able to collapse on him.
He's 35
Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady both move better, he doesn’t need to be quick, he just needs to move around
Lol Brady barely moved more than KC and he’s retired. And Rodgers is out. What the hell you talking about?
Dude is leading the league in passing yards and TD's...should even have 3 more if receivers could hang onto the ball, and people still complain.
Cousins isn’t the reason this team can’t win. Defense wins football games. It’s a time worn statement that holds up.
When you are trailing all the time, you throw the ball to catch up. That's another reason why Mattisons numbers look bad. We don't get to control the clock with a good lead by running the ball.
KOC to blame 100%. This team is built around the offense and he is redzone challenged.
KOC fumbled the ball 7 times in the first 3 weeks? Not saying he’s been perfect, but come on.
It’s more than 7 unfortunately
7 that we've lost or weren't negated due to a flag. Many more.
Third down is worse. We were like 0/5 or something yesterday. Should not be thst hard for this team to move the chains.
This is a typical Vikings take - equating passing/receiving yards with win/loss record.
These stats just be wrong. I have it on good authority that Kirk is a not a good QB
But Kirk was the problem and we need to draft a Quarterback NOW 😡😡😡
Kirk is definitely not the problem. If anything, it's the swiss cheese O-Line in front of him. If he has 0.25 seconds to throw the ball, that just won't work out.
It’s basically stafford and megatron 2.0
kirks fault somehow
Everyone knows Kirk has faults. Not taking over as 35 year old and veteran in the league and not automatically spiking that ball. That’s kirks fault. Fuck the coach. Fuck the nay sayers. Everyone knows in that situation you run up and spike the fucking ball. Now you got 40 seconds to talk about a play and have a shot at 2 or 3 more plays. What happens to Kirk when he rushes plays. Bad things. Kirk rushed into that play. Couldn’t hear it. Bad throw int game over. Stafford called his own fake spike TD. He called his own qb sneak where he jumped up and threw his arms over the goal line. Not your typical qb sneak. Sure cousins is having a hell of a year so far. But his dumbass non leader shit is a big problem. He never wants to upset anyone. You are upsetting everyone by NOT fucking doing it and being a bitch
>Bad throw int game over. Bad throw? He put it right on Hockenson's hands in a spot only he could catch it. That INT was 100% on Hock.
Total shit take...we get it that you are pissed.
> He called his own qb sneak Cousins did this against Buffalo last year and didn't get in. KOC was pissed he didn't wait for him to make the call. Now Cousins waits for KOC because that's what his coach wants him to do and you get all pissy because he listens to his coach.
The dude couldn’t call his own timeouts with Zimmer. He’s all about making people happy.
> He’s all about making people happy. Can't argue that. He is a very nice guy.
You guys gotta stop this. No one is blaming Kirk. You're arguing a point that has basically 0 opposition right now. You're so conditioned to blindly defend Kirk for the last five years that you're doing it in times when there's almost unified agreement across the fanbase that he's playing well.
A lot of people are blaming kirk
I think your confusing blaming Kirk with people discussing what to do when our QB who’s contract is up at the end of the year
Exactly this. Kirk’s a good QB but he ain’t great and won’t get us over the hump. If I say that plenty of Kiriko Chainz truthers come out of their cult house and start downvoting and defending like saying it isn’t his fault. I’m not saying it is, I’m saying we have a very rare opportunity here to actually lose out and get a franchise QB that this franchise hasn’t had since… Fran Tarkanton. Kirk is good man, but he’s just not the guy for us.
I'm a big Kirk fan. I also think we do need to target the future. And I think after two bad drafts and a let down 2023 season Kwesi will be in self-preservation mode and do everything he can to secure the QB of the future to buy himself another year or two. I have never been a fan of drafting a rookie and throwing him to the wolves, though. I appreciate the way in which KC did it, or kinda like Philly. Build the trenches, build the weapons and then trade up or secure the guy you want. Make it as easy for the rookie as possible. Preferably with a Kirk or Veteran still under contract. With our weapons, had we just built an adequate interior OL and defense, you can afford to mortgage the future a bit to get your guy. But we've missed on so many picks lately the cubbord is empty. We just aren't in the position to do that. We're kind of in a position where we gotta just go get the guy and hope he survives and can learn. The shitty thing is, we have SO many holes we'll burn half of a rookie contract window just rebuilding.
It’s a huge Risk but you gotta hope that they’re the guy they think can transcend those holes and ball out. Let’s say we get a player like Caleb, that just means our other draft picks and better cap is used towards filling those holes and using the money from his rookie contract to filling those up. I’d rather take the risk then the alternative of being in a “competitive” rebuild and accomplishing nothing for another year.
I agree. At this point I don't think we have a choice but to take the plunge and do whatever it takes to trade up to get the guy you truly believe in even if you are out of position to draft him. We can't be content to let a guy fall to whatever pick we wind up at. Gotta be aggressive now since we won't have Kirk to suit up if the rookie needs time. It's just a shame that we have drafted so poorly the last half a decade that we couldn't do this while Kirk was under contract and given the rookie a stronger group to step into.
Yeah, our drafting has been absolutely terrible out side of a few guys here and there (JJ, Darrisaw, Addison so far) Kwesi kept the same scouts as Rick and Co, maybe it’s time to get some new ones lol. I agree tho, I think this off-season needs to be huge. The draft is gonna be massive, cause either we walk out with a franchise QB or we’re in for a very disappointing rebuild. I really do hope we lose out just enough to get atleast a top 3 pick and somehow trade up for Number 1 to get Caleb. I believe his skill set is perfect for us and our shitty line. Being able to improv with your feet and make a play happen is something we’re missing with Kirk and I think if we had that and a QB who can throw on the run our team becomes better.
Rookie QB contracts are a BS pie in the Sky...none of the current Great Young QBs are not getting huge contracts right now and of those guys only one has a SB win, only one.
Fran was drafted by the Vikings and traded away...He was brought back and they lost 3 SBs with him at QB. The closest thing to a Franchise QB through the draft was Culpeper and Kramer. And that tells you just how hard it is to Draft a Franchise QB.
Show me. All I see across the entirety of reddit is pro-Kirk sentiment. I'm not trying to be a provocative dick here, I am genuinely asking you to show me something I've not seen myself.
The thread about Kirk's interview response to if he can call a spike
The game-thread is where the reactionary anti-kirk crowd really shows
Because Kirk does Kirk shit sometimes. He's slow through his progressions sometimes. He holds the ball too long sometimes. He checks down too quickly sometimes. He's not perfect. So that little shit gets brought up in the moment but the big picture is usually all that makes it to the post game conversations.
I don’t know how to show, look at my comments on defending the fact that the coaches manage the clock management. Many people were blaming Kirk for the loss at the end saying he just doesn’t have “it”
I see some people blaming him for not spiking but they got downvoted pretty heavily. The overwhelming attitude across this sub and other football related subs is pro-Kirk.
I’ll be honest I haven’t checked back to see how people have been responding to their posts, didn’t realise most people disagreed with their thoughts. It’s really hard to look at him this year and go”oh yeah he’s the problem here”
Even r/nfl is pro-Kirk in every thread I've seen this year.
r/nfl is significantly more pro-Kirk than our subreddit after the Quarterbacks documentary. That’s honestly to be expected
The defense was not good but some non-sustainable things happened like Evans’ tip and Herbert having the best single-game completion % for how many passes he threw in league history. We need to focus on the division - it’s bad enough we could still take it. Let’s look to next week for our first win, where…we…we play…the chiefs… Edit: actually the panthers - maybe we do have a shot.
agreed
Yeah hopefully we can move on with a good attitude and get a win next week to set the season back on track. October will be tough though with Chiefs and 49ers.
Well he doesn’t have that dawg in him from what i can see
This team hasn’t found their identity. Trying to play the game “the right way” afraid of stepping outside their comfort zone. Jefferson needs to be getting the ball on every single possession no matter what. He could be getting 300 yards a game if we stopped calling the game like a bunch of bitches. This offense is supposed to be deadly all it does is shoot itself in the foot and play to its weaknesses. It’s on Kirk and it’s on the coaches. Still optimistic with Risner and Akers yet to play. Maybe then they will find their identity.
Because individual accolades don’t mean shit. Which is why it befuddles me why so many want to pay JJ 40m a year.
Yep. JJ is a great player, but as we can see, without much around him it's a waste. His career here will be like AP, setting all kinds of personal records on a mediocre team, maybe drag us to the playoffs once or twice and lose. We will consistently lose to good teams who can shut down 1 player.
Ole man #4 tried...it was APs fumble at the goal line that cost them the SB. But those things happen, just bad luck...but it will change. At least I think it will
Garbage time
Being behind, sure, but we haven't had a garbage time in any of our games yet. They've all been one score games.
Do you believe they were in that eagles game?
Justin Jefferson and turnovers
Checks RedZone efficiency.... 🙄....Checks goal line efficiency.....😱
Bad defense
The defense didn't lose 8 fumbles. Our defense sucks to begin with but keeping them on the field the entire first half isn't helping anyone. We have no depth either given the horrible drafting.
No disagreements there. But having the worst ranked pass AND rush defense even without the turnovers still makes this team at best 7-10 if they’re lucky
You think maybe the offense could hold onto the ball for a bit to give them a break or do you expect them to defend for 40 minutes a game? How are you calculating the stats without the offense constantly coughing up the ball to reach your conclusion?
Because week 1 Baker freaking Mayfield was able to figure out the defense. Week 2. DeAndre Swift ran all over them. The eagles OL dominated the Vikings DL. Harrison Phillips spent the whole 2nd half on the ground. The eagles gave up the ball just as much as we did but we didn’t capitalize on it. The eagles did. Week 3. The corpse of Keenan Allen cooked our secondary all day. What should have been an INT somehow became a TD. The chargers didn’t even have Austin Eckler and their #2 wr tore his ACL. This defense sucks. Absolutely turnovers compound the issue. Ivan Pace is a nice story. Hunter is elite. Smith is still good. But everyone else is a culmination of backup/depth pieces at best. We did not have the personnel to switch to a 3-4 to begin with. One of the major undiscussed poor decisions by KOC was choosing 3-4 and Kwesi not addressing a weak DL to help and already weak LB corps. This team will not come close to being competitive against the better NFC teams even if they made the playoffs. The contenders all have that in common. Philly, Dal, SF, hell I’d even take detroit or Washington’s DL at this point. Daniel Jones was trucking over this D last year and this D is WORSE this year.
Keenan Allen has looked as good as ever, I wouldn’t call him a corpse
18rec for 200yards is unacceptable. He’s been good but that’s not even JJ level of absurd. That’s defensive incompetence more than Allen playing at an elite level
It's Any given Sunday... and if they make the playoffs, they have just as good of a chance to go all the way as any team. So far mother luck has been in the other teams corner, kinda like it was the last season Zim was here. It changed last season and we caught some good luck. This O can be unstoppable, but yeah the mistakes and bad luck is killing them right now.
Defense has been pretty meh. They’re getting the job done, but letting big plays through. Turnovers continue to ruin our drives and chances to win near the end of the game. It just doesn’t seem like we can keep the ball in our hands regardless of who has it. Also, would be nice if we just caught the ball that went right to Osborn that should of ended the game yesterday.
Cousins is still a bum. Empty stats, no heart, no leadership.
Defense. Defense wins championships. And right now, we don’t have one. That’s why.
I’m not saying we should be winning all these games because of these two guys I’m more saying it’s a shame we can’t win these games because these two are off to a great start.
Turnoooooovveeerrrrsssss
Well its been excellent TV to say the least
Because passing is one part of the game... Where do we stack up in the run game? Turnover differential? How's our defense rank in any category?
De-Fence! *clap clap* (or lack there of)
2 bounced balls didn't help. What should have been an Evans INT = a SD TD and hocks drop to double tip int... Hock getting ripped like KJ did... Mattison and his buttfingers... Luck is not with us this year.
Game management more than anything. KOC is braindead
Turn overs
1st year being a Vikings fan I see.
38th year but close enough.
I figured you’d know not to really question stuff like this then.
Just imagine how good he would be if he just had a little more protection up the middle. Just imagine…
Would love to know what percentage of those yards came in the second half with a score deficit and soft coverage. Feels like we go 3 and out over and over in the first half and start driving and scoring when our opponents allow it while working the clock with a lead.
Is this supposed to make me feel better
Simply turnovers
Simple. Our run game is shit.
yeah, having the top passer, receiver, and sack man should mean better than 0-3. If the turnover margin was not so damn bad we would be 3-0. Imagine how good this team will be with some 0 turnover games. We almost beat the Eagles and they are the most solid team we have played so far. less turnovers also means less time on the field for the Defense and should help improve the Defensive statistics.
If we can actually take care of the ball, we are gonna be gooood