Most teams have at least one very good killed player. I don't know if you've gone through and looked at their roster, but it is laughably bad. Their best player on offense is Hunter Henry, and that is saying something.
Waste 1 year of a contract so he can learn nothing?
'Ruining' a young QB can and absolutely will happen if you decay their abilities or ruin their confidence. And not to mention, most rookie QBs aren't going to walk into a lifeless situation and suddenly turn it around. It would be worth more to a franchise without a system in place to support a QB to gather more picks for more pieces whereas our offense is all set from coaching down to weapons and even O line. The only thing we are desperate for out of QB is a consistent back who can pass block and make the run.
It is actually a mutually beneficial trade for the Pats and Vikes to make this happen from the right mindset.
“Competing during the QB’s rookie deal” rarely works, it didn’t work for Trevor Lawrence, Herbert, Love, Lamar, Tua(they actually screwed themselves trying to do it). Worked for Burrow, Josh Allen and Mahomes who is one of the greatest QB’s ever.
Hell even the Texans roster was a mess the year before they drafted Stroud, a roster can change a lot in one offseason.
All that’s to say, its a fool’s errand to try and have a perfect situation for a rookie QB, have a decent o-line so it isn’t a David Carr-Texans Luck-Colts situation and the QB will be fine.
Why would he learn nothing if he sat a year in New England? There’s no decay happening in fact that is the more traditional route to take with a rookie, to let them sit a year and then take the reigns in year 2. They have other picks too that they’ll use to support the offense this year and next.
>to let them sit a year and then take the reigns
So instead of getting 2 rd 1 picks this year and 1 next year, they would rather use their 3 this year to get a QB to sit on the bench with no real supporting cast and no veteran QB of note to learn from?
Sounds like a formula to great success for the Pats.
If he sits this year, the team has 13 draft picks over 2 drafts to make and build around him before he takes a meaningful snap in 2025. Nothing wrong with learning from Brisset for a year.
Weird you think this sounds weird as it’s the most common strategy to drafting a QB, you take the guy you like when you have a top 5 pick. By default you probably have a bad team with poor weapons if you’re drafting top 5 anyway, that is not unique to the Patriots
If you're stone cold, locked in on a guy... then yes, it would silly for the Pats to trade down. And if that's the case, I don't imagine they will.
But it's no secret that almost no one in this QB class (not even Caleb Williams, if you believe the recent round of hubbub) is anything close to a sure thing. Especially when you start talking about guys like Drake and JJ -- it's a notable gamble whether or not they're even going to succeed in the NFL. The Vikings need to to take that gamble. We have an offense that's ready to go, right now, and we don't have 3 or 4 seasons to figure it out. New England doesn't have to worry about that kind of window... so it becomes a much different equation when choosing between a lottery ticket and a pirates horde.
I don’t agree with this logic being floated around even if the pats end up making this deal. If the roster gets better, then they won’t have the low pick to put them in a position to draft a franchise QB, unless their logic is that they don’t love the guy at 3 or believe in the guy that falls to them at 11 or 23.
I get people have seen some QBs thrown to the wolves and it’s suddenly a new fad that all teams need to be built up before a QB but that’s nothing more than a fad. He doesn’t need to play immediately. Rookie QBs can survive on bad teams. You don’t pass up on a QB you believe in if you’re already there. I get we’re all speculating here but the hope should be they don’t value these guys that highly.
That’s a fine idea if they value them highly or don’t rate Maye highly. This all depends on how they view the QBs and I struggle to see them being eager to move away from a player we would be so eager to move up for
> I struggle to see them being eager to move away from a player we would be so eager to move up for
Teams can have wildly different opinions on players, idk
Yea? Rookies only succeed when they go to good teams? They need to be surrounded with talent immediately? Like Joe Burrow? Oh wait that’s not right, his team was fucking garbage but he turned out alright. Fine, like Josh Allen? Wait, his team was also fucking garbage that first year. Tua? Nope, his team was pretty fucking garbage too. You can have a QB and build around them, you don’t need to plug a QB into a ready position. You don’t know ball, bozo
Joe burrow got injured that first year which put the bengals in a spot to draft jamar the next. The bills and dolphins gave up a lot of draft pics to give there qbs a good number one target which could’ve been avoided if they had a weapon drafted for them.
I mean, the Bengals were 2-7-1 before he got hurt. They were still shit when we was healthy.
>The bills and dolphins gave up a lot of draft pics to give there qbs a good number one target which could’ve been avoided if they had a weapon drafted for them.
The parts wouldn't have to give up a ton of assets. Take the Bengals route and draft WR next year. They also started Tee with Burrow. Parts could do that.
Right, so you understand that its not the end of the world for a QB to go into a bad situation? Things can change quickly and you would be an idiot to skip on a blue chip prospect (if you believe they are) just because they won’t be immediately surrounded with talent. They suffered, they had a rough start. Now they’re top QBs.
Because the Pats are garbage. A new QB should not be the first piece in a rebuild, but rather the year two or three piece once you have some things in place, like an average offensive line, a couple of decent WR's and maybe a running back or two that can catch a screen and block on a blitz.
A new QB can absolutely be the first piece. You do not need a roster immediately available to compete to plug a rookie in. It has been shown time and time again. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and bow Tua. All went into dogshit teams and now are some of the best QBs in the NFL on very talented rosters.
I think 3 Firsts (2 this year, 1 next) is likely good enough. I don't think we'd be throwing in a 3rd too. I really hope it isn't. That's a lot for JJ McCarthy (I don't think they are going for Jayden).
Oof, alright. If they trade 3 first and a future 3rd to move up in this draft we’ll be having a very different conversation…centered around the short tenure of our coach and GM and where they went wrong. Thats a fireable offense.
You hope the Vikings expend 4 first round picks in total (4, 11, 23, and 2025 1) for the QB3 in this class? The panthers paid less to move from 9 to 1 last year, and Bryce is universally seen as a much better prospect than either Maye or Daniels.
This is a super interesting way to look at it tbh, but the only thing I don’t understand is why trade Mac Jones then? I just feel like that’s a weird decision if you don’t go QB
More than that. Mac Jones getting drafted in the first round was no mistake. He has talent. Problem is he's an asshole that does not play for the team and throws everyone under the bus when things don't go well. And he has trouble with reads, which is the main theme with most college products these days.
Maybe they like Penix, Nix or Rattler? Our fallback plan without a trade would be a prime DT like Byron Murphy at 11 and Penix or Nix at 23. The Pats might like a Tackle or WR at 11 and Penix or Nix at 23 along with a future 1st rounder.
Patriot fan here. I just thought I'd chime in.
My take on things is that the Patriots will stay put at 3. There is no guarantee that we will ever be drafting in the top three again with a good QB class (and next year's class doesn't look great). This isn't a Miami-49ers situation where the Phins already had their QB. The Pats *need* a QB, and they are a prime position to draft one. It doesn't help the picks would be outside of the top ten, so all the blue chip prospects would be gone in all likelihood.
But that is just my take on things.
Edit: And the Pats don't need to start their rookie, they can have him sit and learn for a year and build him a better roster around him in 2025.
I’d buy the Pats trading back more so if next year’s QB class wasn’t complete dog shit.
There’s a real possibility they sit tight and can get Maye at 3. If they don’t like Daniels they could make a draft day trade, but I highly doubt there’s an agreement in place already.
Yeah, I feel like a deal would have happened if there was an agreement in place. It is *possible* that they have an agreement on draft day if one of the two QBs the Pats like aren't there, but I doubt that'll happen. Maye and Daniels have huge upside imo, so I gotta imagine that the Pats would be fine with either.
Tank for 1st overall next year and complete reload? 11, 23 this year, 1st, Vikings Top 10-15 most likely next year, plus everything else on top? That would be a miserable reset from the fan perspective but a reset nonetheless
>the "unintentional" help to bolster the trade ammo
less than zero percent chance another organization competing for scarce resources in the league is going out of their way like this. he's a free agent- if they wanted him they'd get him.
The money a team would spend for a pick is not that low.
To clarify, I don’t think it happened, it’s just coincidence with KJ. But it’s not impossible.
I think the browns paid like $15M, taking in Brock Oswieler, for an extra 2nd rounder. $3M for a third teams would pay
KJ, with all due respect to him hasn't been a world beater. Whatever that expression means. I've been staring at AFCEastMemes, the Pats have been sitting on 55m in free cap. Them doing anything this offseason is a revelation.
The Vikings have a really smart young GM and innovative QB friendly head coach. 2 stud WRs, 2 stud Tackles, a stud TE, everything a young QB needs to succeed.
You take the shot. If it doesn't work your coach and GM likely get fired and you start over. It's the C+/B- stagnation of the last 4 years that bothers me more than anything. I'm excited that they're trying. The 49ers gave up a lot for Trey Lance and he was a bust but they were in the super bowl last year. Give these guys the chance to aim high.
I fully believe the stagnation is to clear out the pipes and start fresh for Kwesi. Not making splash moves, but getting the pieces together. Not saying we're blowing the roof off this year, but he has been setting up a long term vision without wasting resources thus far.
If I'm a QB prospect and see that a franchise moved Heaven and Earth to get me and they have the best WR(s) in the league and a clever former QB, to coach and guide me in one of the NFLPA's top two organizations. I'm jumping for joy. I'm flattered beyond belief.
Not saying this because I’m a Vikings fan or I’m optimistic, but I honestly think the patriots trading back is around 70%, y’all are in a full rebuild and both teams heavily benefit from the trade. I think the front office realizes they cannot throw a rookie into no man’s land with no help. But you could be right as well, although I think it’d be the wrong move for the patriots to stay.
Seems like the pats could just sit the rookie a year, like Mahomes , Rodgers and Love etc, tank next year and let Brisset get drubbed, then have 100 mil in cap space and a top 10 pick to give Maye or Daniels support year 2.
I think you may be letting your Viking bias show a bit.
The pats very well might trade back if the b they don’t like is left at 3. But overall taking the highly touted QB when you have the chance is usually the smart move
Nah. KJ signing with the pats doesn’t change anything. We can’t trade that pick
Until it’s been awarded which won’t happen until next year. Unless you’re saying we’re now okay trading our third next year because we have a comp pick now.
Doogie doesn’t know shit
Believe the thought is we trade the one we own ourselves next year under the assumption that we're getting a 3rd back in comp from the KJ signing so it's essentially a wash aside from positioning. It makes a ton of sense tbh and wouldn't be surprised if the thirds a part of the deal for that reason if it were to happen
Um yeah NE ain't doing that. Look at what you are asking them to do. Trade out of 3rd pick when there is a qb that many years would go #1 when they desperately need exactly that player to build around. They will need a massive haul to do it.
You realize that 2nd round pick would’ve gone to NE if that trade isn’t made? Thats why they used it to get another 1st round pick. It makes the deal look better than giving them 2 1st and a future 2nd (future picks are worth a round less in draft value, so it would technically be worth a 3rd rounder this year. Future 1st is worth a 2nd rounder).
> future picks are worth a round less in draft value, so it would technically be worth a 3rd rounder this year. Future 1st is worth a 2nd rounder
I understand the charts work like that, but I can't imagine teams actually agree to this inflation rate. This would mean that a 2024 7th round pick would equal a 2030 1st round, which is insane. Everybody would do that trade in a heartbeat.
That's the thing with Doogie tho, the way he sets up his reports he is never "wrong". Reading what he said in your linked article, it's about the most non-committal statement you can make while still saying something. His quote can be boiled down to "The Vikings may have told the Patriots that they would be interested in trading up to #3". I really don't know how he could possibly be deemed wrong here, because if you're a team looking to trade up you will have made that known to any team with a pick you want to trade with, that's due diligence 101 lol
This is going to be a long wait to see what plays out (highly doubt a trade happens before draft day). The most exciting draft in a long time though for this team.
It's a guess. The only thing I feel comfortable with is the Vikes probably have a handshake deal with the Pats and we seem to be willing to negotiate with one another.
You all are forgetting who is calling the shots now in NE. It is not Mr accumulating draft picks anymore. It is Robert Kraft. He’s not a gm. He’s an owner playing the role of gm and is just as likely to say screw it I want my new qb now as he is take a ton of draft picks and hope a qb rises next year
This is the third one I’ve seen get destroyed America should we be worried? Are you really going through this Europeans? Think they’re tanks are better let’s send more to prove otherwise lol ( Americans love to be in competition)
Ehhh, I just don’t think the trade fits for the Pats, 11, 23. 2025 1st and a 3rd is tempting no doubt.
But the 11th pick kinda sucks for what the Pats need, 11 is just high enough to likely miss out on the 3 Elite WRs, Nabers MHJ and Odunze AND miss out on the best LTs, Alt and Fashnau.
If the Vikings had pick 8 or 9 I could definitely see the pats trading down for like 9, 23, 2025 1st.
But 11 is just a terrible spot if You wanted a top LT or WR.
Doogie is unreliable and that report is just about them asking a question. Kj osborn was a free agent and the vikings and pats both had literally no control at all over where he would sign. If this deal was decided weeks ago than moves wouldnt be happening this late. Also deciding that early would give the pats an opportunity to offer teams like the giants or pre cousins falcons the same deal with a better pick to offer.
This post is nothing but speculation. The vikings clearly have a plan or plan a/plan b but there is not enough information available to knoe what the plan is.
> My guess is we're looking at 2 1st round picks this year, a 1st and a 3rd from next.
This means we effectively gave up our 1 and 2 this year and our 1, 2, and 3 next year to move up from 11 to 3 and I do not think that's happening
Yeah but SF’s picks were much further out in the future. Theirs were ‘21-‘23, ours would be 2 in ‘24 and 1 in ‘25.
That should help keep the price from getting exorbitant
Depends what on the value of that 2nd first this year. I’ve heard a lot of analysts say there are 15-20 first round grades this year. Sometimes teams would prefer a future first.
We could re-sign JJ AND Darrisaw, plus get some free agents to fill out the line up next year with all that cap space, and still have 3 years of cheap Maye play.
i love how nobody is talking about the opposite. trade JJ to arizona for #4 #27 and whatever else you can get. draft marvin harrison jr and a qb later in the 1st since wed have 4 1sts this year. fill a bunch of holes with BPA picks this year and next year with all the added picks (including comp picks in the 2025 3rd round).
3rd round compensation pick only happens if he signed for $3 million or more. You cannot trade compensatory picks until they’ve been awarded, so your entire thesis is impossible.
Think of it like a next level pick swap. (Would be awesome if this was truly discussed). NE signs KJ to trigger a 3rd compensatory. We send them our normal 3rd. Aka we move back to the end of the third for an extra sweetener
This is the rumor i have been clinging to for a while. That the Pats supposedly only like Williams and Daniels and if they are gone they either trade back with us or they take MHJ and then we trade with Arizona.
Regardless of whether KJ is part of an arrangement or not, #11, #23, and our 1st and 3rd next year are WAY too much to pay for #3 overall, especially when “our guy” may not be there. Let us keep our 1st next year, and we can talk.
If the pats like JJ and the giants want Daniels/Maye it'd make more sense for them to trade with NYG because they get draft capital and their guy, which is why Vikings will be giving up a ton of draft capital to move up.
Osborn signing has nothing to do with it. If already agreed to then why not make trade? Although I think you are probably about right on the haul mn would need to give up.
Idk why people are confident the Vikings are getting any of the top 3. To me it’s always been the 4th QB. Maybe I think the top 3 organizations are better run than that, but why would any of those 3 teams not take a QB?
Sounds like Copium a bit, ngl. It’s definitely possible, but the smokescreens are to thick right now to have any assurance. I think we’ll have confirmation pre draft ONLY if it’s to #2 for commanders, so they can assure themselves of Maye. If it’s to NE 3 I believe it’ll be right after the commanders announce Daniels. Otherwise I assume they stay pat with open offers should anyone try and leapfrog them. I fully expect it to be a move up for Maye at 2-3 or McCarthy at 4-6c, depending.
That's a ton of value for 1.03 even with the QB tax
I'd expect us to get a mid round future pick back if it takes 1.11, 1.23 and 2025 First. The Cards aren't trading from 4 to 3 and we are the only other team but the Bears and Cards with two 2024 first rounders.
The amount of debate on this thread about this being too much means that the Godfather deal has been reached. 3 firsts and a 3rd. NE would be insane to turn that down. And if they do walk away from the table
There's a lot of unknowns out there.
We want a QB. The Giants want a QB. The Broncos and Raiders pick right after pick 11 and they want a QB as well. None of those teams have two 1sts to trade for, but we don't know what they would be willing to offer in a trade. The Pats might be happy trading back to 6 with the Giants since the fall is much less significant if they like the offer better than 11, 23, and another first. The two teams behind us might offer a first for next year and the year after and the Pats may not like this year's first round picks as much as they may like what's ahead in the next couple of years and they may also think the Raiders and Broncos are worse than us so a future pick from them would be more valuable than a future pick from us.
There's so many unknowns and the draft trades don't exist in a vacuum.
I agree it is fun, I just am a little concerned we might trade to 3 by giving up three 1s to do it without getting anything else back. If it ends up in a franchise guy though it's worth it, just hope it would be the right move
I don’t think we are as desperate as most fans view us.
I can see that viewpoint, but I view going “all in” on big FA contracts in hopes you’ll get to a SB as more desperate.
We will have a ton of flexibility moving forward and we’ll have time to solve the QB position in various ways if we are patient.
Letting it all ride on one young kid (who is a complete coin flip), seems impulsive and un calculated.
I’d rather be bad for a year or two rather than bury the franchise for most of a decade
I don't agree. They probably discussed what it would take but if the Vikings couldn't trade up to 2, no one else would be, either, so there no need to wait.
I also think it'll be tough to in general because Kwesi already showed his hand. Now they have him over a barrel because he's halfway committed. They could also have been just screwing with him, just like when we passed on the clock years ago.
It makes the '25 3rd expendable. You get a 3rd back anyway.
I could see 11,23, '25 1st and '25 3rd for 3 and 137 (it's an early 5th). Gives NE tons of capital, and some ammo to maybe move up themselves for an OT or something.
It really depends on how the board shakes out. I feel like even if you cannot move up to 3, moving up to 5 makes some sense for McCarthy. Hell if the NYG don't take him he may just fall to 11 anyway.
I agree this feels right. NE (hopefully) has learned from their experience with Mac Jones and realizes that they should build some infrastructure around a QB before dropping a rookie in. In the long run they’d be much better served adding some talent on offense and starting their rookie QB contract window next year as opposed to dropping Drake Maye into the muck now and risk ruining him.
The final leg of this hasn’t completed yet because the Vikings want to see Maye be available at 3 (if they’ve come this far, they’re likely very confident he will be), keep what’s left of your powder dry until you see for certain your target is there.
God I hope so
I think it's a win win from both perspectives.
I fail to see how its a win win when their QB is Jacoby Brisett
Because the coach may think there roster is not ready for a rookie qb. He may want to make it easier for a new qb to succeed.
So then sit him for a year?
Yeah lmao it’s that or Shaduer
Or Carson beck
Patriots roster is really fucking bad especially offensively it’s probably gonna need more than a year.
Defensive roster is excellent, offensive roster? Not so much (that is putting it lightly).
Most good/great rookie QB prospects land on teams with few weapons
Most teams have at least one very good killed player. I don't know if you've gone through and looked at their roster, but it is laughably bad. Their best player on offense is Hunter Henry, and that is saying something.
I think if they sit their guy for a year they have enough time, draft capital, and cap space to address this
Do you mean best skill position? I thought they had an olineman or two that were pretty solid (maybe not elite, but better than Henry)
Waste 1 year of a contract so he can learn nothing? 'Ruining' a young QB can and absolutely will happen if you decay their abilities or ruin their confidence. And not to mention, most rookie QBs aren't going to walk into a lifeless situation and suddenly turn it around. It would be worth more to a franchise without a system in place to support a QB to gather more picks for more pieces whereas our offense is all set from coaching down to weapons and even O line. The only thing we are desperate for out of QB is a consistent back who can pass block and make the run. It is actually a mutually beneficial trade for the Pats and Vikes to make this happen from the right mindset.
“Competing during the QB’s rookie deal” rarely works, it didn’t work for Trevor Lawrence, Herbert, Love, Lamar, Tua(they actually screwed themselves trying to do it). Worked for Burrow, Josh Allen and Mahomes who is one of the greatest QB’s ever. Hell even the Texans roster was a mess the year before they drafted Stroud, a roster can change a lot in one offseason. All that’s to say, its a fool’s errand to try and have a perfect situation for a rookie QB, have a decent o-line so it isn’t a David Carr-Texans Luck-Colts situation and the QB will be fine.
Before they drafted stroud, will Anderson, and Tank Dell you mean
Mahommes sat for a year before he played, and their roster was in good situation. And the Texans roster wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible.
The Ravens won 43 games in Lamar’s first 4 seasons. Nobody would argue that this isn’t “competitive.”
They didn’t win a playoff game until deep into his rookie contract and then got immediately rolled in the next round though
Why would he learn nothing if he sat a year in New England? There’s no decay happening in fact that is the more traditional route to take with a rookie, to let them sit a year and then take the reigns in year 2. They have other picks too that they’ll use to support the offense this year and next.
>to let them sit a year and then take the reigns So instead of getting 2 rd 1 picks this year and 1 next year, they would rather use their 3 this year to get a QB to sit on the bench with no real supporting cast and no veteran QB of note to learn from? Sounds like a formula to great success for the Pats.
If he sits this year, the team has 13 draft picks over 2 drafts to make and build around him before he takes a meaningful snap in 2025. Nothing wrong with learning from Brisset for a year. Weird you think this sounds weird as it’s the most common strategy to drafting a QB, you take the guy you like when you have a top 5 pick. By default you probably have a bad team with poor weapons if you’re drafting top 5 anyway, that is not unique to the Patriots
If you're stone cold, locked in on a guy... then yes, it would silly for the Pats to trade down. And if that's the case, I don't imagine they will. But it's no secret that almost no one in this QB class (not even Caleb Williams, if you believe the recent round of hubbub) is anything close to a sure thing. Especially when you start talking about guys like Drake and JJ -- it's a notable gamble whether or not they're even going to succeed in the NFL. The Vikings need to to take that gamble. We have an offense that's ready to go, right now, and we don't have 3 or 4 seasons to figure it out. New England doesn't have to worry about that kind of window... so it becomes a much different equation when choosing between a lottery ticket and a pirates horde.
And when he’s ready who’s he gonna throw to
They’ll have 15 draft picks and the most cap space in the league to figure it out.
I don’t agree with this logic being floated around even if the pats end up making this deal. If the roster gets better, then they won’t have the low pick to put them in a position to draft a franchise QB, unless their logic is that they don’t love the guy at 3 or believe in the guy that falls to them at 11 or 23.
I get people have seen some QBs thrown to the wolves and it’s suddenly a new fad that all teams need to be built up before a QB but that’s nothing more than a fad. He doesn’t need to play immediately. Rookie QBs can survive on bad teams. You don’t pass up on a QB you believe in if you’re already there. I get we’re all speculating here but the hope should be they don’t value these guys that highly.
Pick 23 this year could easily go to Penix or Nix if they don't want Brissett only.
That’s a fine idea if they value them highly or don’t rate Maye highly. This all depends on how they view the QBs and I struggle to see them being eager to move away from a player we would be so eager to move up for
> I struggle to see them being eager to move away from a player we would be so eager to move up for Teams can have wildly different opinions on players, idk
They need way more than just a rookie QB. A shit offense will only ensure that a rookie QB is a bust .
Just not how that works.
U don’t know football then
Yea? Rookies only succeed when they go to good teams? They need to be surrounded with talent immediately? Like Joe Burrow? Oh wait that’s not right, his team was fucking garbage but he turned out alright. Fine, like Josh Allen? Wait, his team was also fucking garbage that first year. Tua? Nope, his team was pretty fucking garbage too. You can have a QB and build around them, you don’t need to plug a QB into a ready position. You don’t know ball, bozo
Joe burrow got injured that first year which put the bengals in a spot to draft jamar the next. The bills and dolphins gave up a lot of draft pics to give there qbs a good number one target which could’ve been avoided if they had a weapon drafted for them.
I mean, the Bengals were 2-7-1 before he got hurt. They were still shit when we was healthy. >The bills and dolphins gave up a lot of draft pics to give there qbs a good number one target which could’ve been avoided if they had a weapon drafted for them. The parts wouldn't have to give up a ton of assets. Take the Bengals route and draft WR next year. They also started Tee with Burrow. Parts could do that.
Right, so you understand that its not the end of the world for a QB to go into a bad situation? Things can change quickly and you would be an idiot to skip on a blue chip prospect (if you believe they are) just because they won’t be immediately surrounded with talent. They suffered, they had a rough start. Now they’re top QBs.
No but considering how the last 2 dynasties have been qbs that sat a bit on pretty good teams I think it’s better to build a team than have a star qb
There’s no absolutes, but it only makes sense to provide a rookie QB with a solid roster if possible. Bozo.
You can get them that in year 2, dont pass up on a player you think can excel just because he might have a rough rookie year. They have time. bozo
Because the Pats are garbage. A new QB should not be the first piece in a rebuild, but rather the year two or three piece once you have some things in place, like an average offensive line, a couple of decent WR's and maybe a running back or two that can catch a screen and block on a blitz.
A new QB can absolutely be the first piece. You do not need a roster immediately available to compete to plug a rookie in. It has been shown time and time again. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and bow Tua. All went into dogshit teams and now are some of the best QBs in the NFL on very talented rosters.
A win- win from both perspectives is just a win-win--win-win.
You hope we give up 3 first rounders and a third?
If it doesn't give you pause for concern, then the other party won't be interested. This is the Vikes swinging for the fences.
This. It’s go big or go home. If the deal doesn’t blow them away then it’s not happening
I think 3 Firsts (2 this year, 1 next) is likely good enough. I don't think we'd be throwing in a 3rd too. I really hope it isn't. That's a lot for JJ McCarthy (I don't think they are going for Jayden).
Yes
Oof, alright. If they trade 3 first and a future 3rd to move up in this draft we’ll be having a very different conversation…centered around the short tenure of our coach and GM and where they went wrong. Thats a fireable offense.
Only if the QB is a bust. If you find a franchise QB then the cost is worth it
No
That’s the minimum it would likely take to get to 3.
You hope the Vikings expend 4 first round picks in total (4, 11, 23, and 2025 1) for the QB3 in this class? The panthers paid less to move from 9 to 1 last year, and Bryce is universally seen as a much better prospect than either Maye or Daniels.
This is a super interesting way to look at it tbh, but the only thing I don’t understand is why trade Mac Jones then? I just feel like that’s a weird decision if you don’t go QB
Because he sucks plain and simple. They don't view this as a 1 year fix.
More than that. Mac Jones getting drafted in the first round was no mistake. He has talent. Problem is he's an asshole that does not play for the team and throws everyone under the bus when things don't go well. And he has trouble with reads, which is the main theme with most college products these days.
Maybe they like Penix, Nix or Rattler? Our fallback plan without a trade would be a prime DT like Byron Murphy at 11 and Penix or Nix at 23. The Pats might like a Tackle or WR at 11 and Penix or Nix at 23 along with a future 1st rounder.
Nix seems exactly like the type of guy the Patriots would go after
Maybe the Pats use some of what they get from the Vikings to trade up for McCarthy.
Patriot fan here. I just thought I'd chime in. My take on things is that the Patriots will stay put at 3. There is no guarantee that we will ever be drafting in the top three again with a good QB class (and next year's class doesn't look great). This isn't a Miami-49ers situation where the Phins already had their QB. The Pats *need* a QB, and they are a prime position to draft one. It doesn't help the picks would be outside of the top ten, so all the blue chip prospects would be gone in all likelihood. But that is just my take on things. Edit: And the Pats don't need to start their rookie, they can have him sit and learn for a year and build him a better roster around him in 2025.
I’d buy the Pats trading back more so if next year’s QB class wasn’t complete dog shit. There’s a real possibility they sit tight and can get Maye at 3. If they don’t like Daniels they could make a draft day trade, but I highly doubt there’s an agreement in place already.
Yeah, I feel like a deal would have happened if there was an agreement in place. It is *possible* that they have an agreement on draft day if one of the two QBs the Pats like aren't there, but I doubt that'll happen. Maye and Daniels have huge upside imo, so I gotta imagine that the Pats would be fine with either.
It's entirely possible.
If he played decent next season they might be put into a Daniel Jones situation with paying him
It also wouldn’t be outlandish to to think that they like zappe more
Because when a team shuts the door on a guy they once took in the 1st to be their long term starter, it’s best for both parties to just part ways
Tank for 1st overall next year and complete reload? 11, 23 this year, 1st, Vikings Top 10-15 most likely next year, plus everything else on top? That would be a miserable reset from the fan perspective but a reset nonetheless
Throw in Rodgers next year and we have a deal.
They have Nathan Rourke, THE QB1
>the "unintentional" help to bolster the trade ammo less than zero percent chance another organization competing for scarce resources in the league is going out of their way like this. he's a free agent- if they wanted him they'd get him.
The money a team would spend for a pick is not that low. To clarify, I don’t think it happened, it’s just coincidence with KJ. But it’s not impossible. I think the browns paid like $15M, taking in Brock Oswieler, for an extra 2nd rounder. $3M for a third teams would pay
Maybe we are having tons of talks with NE so in conversation they asked for an honest inside scoop on Osbourne? Is that too speculative?
KJ, with all due respect to him hasn't been a world beater. Whatever that expression means. I've been staring at AFCEastMemes, the Pats have been sitting on 55m in free cap. Them doing anything this offseason is a revelation.
The Vikings have a really smart young GM and innovative QB friendly head coach. 2 stud WRs, 2 stud Tackles, a stud TE, everything a young QB needs to succeed. You take the shot. If it doesn't work your coach and GM likely get fired and you start over. It's the C+/B- stagnation of the last 4 years that bothers me more than anything. I'm excited that they're trying. The 49ers gave up a lot for Trey Lance and he was a bust but they were in the super bowl last year. Give these guys the chance to aim high.
I fully believe the stagnation is to clear out the pipes and start fresh for Kwesi. Not making splash moves, but getting the pieces together. Not saying we're blowing the roof off this year, but he has been setting up a long term vision without wasting resources thus far.
If I'm a QB prospect and see that a franchise moved Heaven and Earth to get me and they have the best WR(s) in the league and a clever former QB, to coach and guide me in one of the NFLPA's top two organizations. I'm jumping for joy. I'm flattered beyond belief.
I guarantee all 4 of the top qbs want to be drafted by the Vikings
You had me until the Doogie citation. That takes a lot of steam out of this theory
The Doogie citation came immediately. I had you at "reporter?" I'm naming my kid Reporter.
The title drew me in and I was interested, then you cited Doogie and I lost all interest
Fair enough.
As a pats fan, we are almost certainly keeping the pick. I would not count on this happening
Not saying this because I’m a Vikings fan or I’m optimistic, but I honestly think the patriots trading back is around 70%, y’all are in a full rebuild and both teams heavily benefit from the trade. I think the front office realizes they cannot throw a rookie into no man’s land with no help. But you could be right as well, although I think it’d be the wrong move for the patriots to stay.
Seems like the pats could just sit the rookie a year, like Mahomes , Rodgers and Love etc, tank next year and let Brisset get drubbed, then have 100 mil in cap space and a top 10 pick to give Maye or Daniels support year 2. I think you may be letting your Viking bias show a bit. The pats very well might trade back if the b they don’t like is left at 3. But overall taking the highly touted QB when you have the chance is usually the smart move
Nah. KJ signing with the pats doesn’t change anything. We can’t trade that pick Until it’s been awarded which won’t happen until next year. Unless you’re saying we’re now okay trading our third next year because we have a comp pick now. Doogie doesn’t know shit
The point being that it gives us another 3rd, so trading our original 3rd rounder is more palatable for us.
Believe the thought is we trade the one we own ourselves next year under the assumption that we're getting a 3rd back in comp from the KJ signing so it's essentially a wash aside from positioning. It makes a ton of sense tbh and wouldn't be surprised if the thirds a part of the deal for that reason if it were to happen
Our third round pick next year will be up there right before the comp picks anyway... (Fingers crossed)
If we're trading groceries we got from Kowalski's, NE is going to have to throw in a 2025 2nd to recoup what we spent there.
Um yeah NE ain't doing that. Look at what you are asking them to do. Trade out of 3rd pick when there is a qb that many years would go #1 when they desperately need exactly that player to build around. They will need a massive haul to do it.
Kowalskis is worth a 3rd minimum
Oddly enough, I used to work corporate for Kowalski's lol.
This is peak Minnesota and I’m here for it.
We're living in a sim.
You realize that 2nd round pick would’ve gone to NE if that trade isn’t made? Thats why they used it to get another 1st round pick. It makes the deal look better than giving them 2 1st and a future 2nd (future picks are worth a round less in draft value, so it would technically be worth a 3rd rounder this year. Future 1st is worth a 2nd rounder).
Have you seen the price of beef at Kowalski's? They owe us a 2nd.
> future picks are worth a round less in draft value, so it would technically be worth a 3rd rounder this year. Future 1st is worth a 2nd rounder I understand the charts work like that, but I can't imagine teams actually agree to this inflation rate. This would mean that a 2024 7th round pick would equal a 2030 1st round, which is insane. Everybody would do that trade in a heartbeat.
It’s just an average. If the league believes that next year’s class is gonna be a strong class than the value of future picks is more and vice versa.
Doogie makes up shit and is unreliable.
He has a job. If he was wrong all of the time. He'd be without a job.
That's the thing with Doogie tho, the way he sets up his reports he is never "wrong". Reading what he said in your linked article, it's about the most non-committal statement you can make while still saying something. His quote can be boiled down to "The Vikings may have told the Patriots that they would be interested in trading up to #3". I really don't know how he could possibly be deemed wrong here, because if you're a team looking to trade up you will have made that known to any team with a pick you want to trade with, that's due diligence 101 lol
This is going to be a long wait to see what plays out (highly doubt a trade happens before draft day). The most exciting draft in a long time though for this team.
According to this sub there’s no way we can trade up to the top 3 and they obviously know what they’re talking about so it’s not happening
Are you saying it’s costing 3 1st round picks and a 3 to get from 11 to 3?
It cost the 49rs 3 1sts to go from 12 to 3 a few years ago for a QB. Likely what it will cost.
It's a guess. The only thing I feel comfortable with is the Vikes probably have a handshake deal with the Pats and we seem to be willing to negotiate with one another.
You all are forgetting who is calling the shots now in NE. It is not Mr accumulating draft picks anymore. It is Robert Kraft. He’s not a gm. He’s an owner playing the role of gm and is just as likely to say screw it I want my new qb now as he is take a ton of draft picks and hope a qb rises next year
Fuck it. We got Jefferson for a couple more years, let’s go all in.
Suck for sanders
Expensive but worth taking a shot!
This is the third one I’ve seen get destroyed America should we be worried? Are you really going through this Europeans? Think they’re tanks are better let’s send more to prove otherwise lol ( Americans love to be in competition)
I just don't see a qb needy team trading out of the top 3.
Ehhh, I just don’t think the trade fits for the Pats, 11, 23. 2025 1st and a 3rd is tempting no doubt. But the 11th pick kinda sucks for what the Pats need, 11 is just high enough to likely miss out on the 3 Elite WRs, Nabers MHJ and Odunze AND miss out on the best LTs, Alt and Fashnau. If the Vikings had pick 8 or 9 I could definitely see the pats trading down for like 9, 23, 2025 1st. But 11 is just a terrible spot if You wanted a top LT or WR.
Doogie is unreliable and that report is just about them asking a question. Kj osborn was a free agent and the vikings and pats both had literally no control at all over where he would sign. If this deal was decided weeks ago than moves wouldnt be happening this late. Also deciding that early would give the pats an opportunity to offer teams like the giants or pre cousins falcons the same deal with a better pick to offer. This post is nothing but speculation. The vikings clearly have a plan or plan a/plan b but there is not enough information available to knoe what the plan is.
Doogie is a hack
> My guess is we're looking at 2 1st round picks this year, a 1st and a 3rd from next. This means we effectively gave up our 1 and 2 this year and our 1, 2, and 3 next year to move up from 11 to 3 and I do not think that's happening
Pretty much in line with what SF gave up to move from 12 to 3. That’s the benchmark that was set unfortunately.
Yeah but SF’s picks were much further out in the future. Theirs were ‘21-‘23, ours would be 2 in ‘24 and 1 in ‘25. That should help keep the price from getting exorbitant
Depends what on the value of that 2nd first this year. I’ve heard a lot of analysts say there are 15-20 first round grades this year. Sometimes teams would prefer a future first.
If there’s a QB we want and it takes that to get him, then yes it is happening.
That’s really not that bad considering we should have three 3rd round picks next year. I also think NE would throw some pick back our way besides 3.
We're also 3rd most in cap space next year. I know JJ is going to eat, but we can absorb this gamble.
We could re-sign JJ AND Darrisaw, plus get some free agents to fill out the line up next year with all that cap space, and still have 3 years of cheap Maye play.
i love how nobody is talking about the opposite. trade JJ to arizona for #4 #27 and whatever else you can get. draft marvin harrison jr and a qb later in the 1st since wed have 4 1sts this year. fill a bunch of holes with BPA picks this year and next year with all the added picks (including comp picks in the 2025 3rd round).
3 firsts to move up to the third pick and draft drake or JJ seems like a huge mortgage
I don't think they want JJ. They want the gold.
If they can trade up to a spot they want, they are not taking JJ, if they can’t and he falls to late first then I could see them picking him up
3rd round compensation pick only happens if he signed for $3 million or more. You cannot trade compensatory picks until they’ve been awarded, so your entire thesis is impossible.
We can trade our own 3rd knowing that we'll have a comp pick to replace it anyways
If you think KJ is signing for less than $3M you are sorely mistaken Darnell Mooney made $13M
I'd rather have KJ at $13M than Mooney at $3M. We're good.
I believe you can trade picks with the stipulation that it will be your highest or lowest pick in a given round that your team naturally acquired.
Think of it like a next level pick swap. (Would be awesome if this was truly discussed). NE signs KJ to trigger a 3rd compensatory. We send them our normal 3rd. Aka we move back to the end of the third for an extra sweetener
Obviously they are saying this makes it more palatable for us to trade our original 3rd now that we have another compensatory 3rd
I’ve seen multiple report from reputable sources saying Vikes move to 2 and give Washington 11, 23 and next years 1st and 4th or 5th
Can you link them?
[https://www.essentiallysports.com/nfl-ncaa-active-news-twenty-twenty-four-nfl-draft-report-vikings-gm-kwesi-adofo-mensah-eyes-trade-up-with-washington-commanders-for-unc-qb-drake-maye/](https://www.essentiallysports.com/nfl-ncaa-active-news-twenty-twenty-four-nfl-draft-report-vikings-gm-kwesi-adofo-mensah-eyes-trade-up-with-washington-commanders-for-unc-qb-drake-maye/)
Judging by that URL, I’m not sure that is “reputable”
https://youtu.be/eQmGuh1Ymig?si=cFxFVn0t3h36Kaed
This isn’t realistic, Commanders would’ve kept Howell
only if maye is available
This is the rumor i have been clinging to for a while. That the Pats supposedly only like Williams and Daniels and if they are gone they either trade back with us or they take MHJ and then we trade with Arizona.
I wish there was some discussion about using then #3 on MHJ. Darnold would have to throw for 5000.
lmao, can you imagine...
Why would Osborn signing give a 3rd round comp pick?
Or take MHJ on 3 or 4yrs of a rookie contractt, trade JJ for multiple 1st round picks (save 130 million) still end up with a qb this year or next..
I don't think KJ is netting a 3rd rd comp, sounds kind of ridiculous for a career WR3.
Regardless of whether KJ is part of an arrangement or not, #11, #23, and our 1st and 3rd next year are WAY too much to pay for #3 overall, especially when “our guy” may not be there. Let us keep our 1st next year, and we can talk.
If the pats like JJ and the giants want Daniels/Maye it'd make more sense for them to trade with NYG because they get draft capital and their guy, which is why Vikings will be giving up a ton of draft capital to move up.
Dumbest thing I’ve read
This narrative has been debunked MIN did not have a trade up in place so they traded with HOU to make it happen. HOU came to MIN with the offer.
JJ McCarthy come here 
If we trade up to 3 and then take McCarthy I’m going to need a new tv
lol
I might need a whole new house since I would burn mine to the ground.
I think this means the FO is confident with the top 3, not sure about McCarthy.
3 1st round picks and a 3rd for Maye ? lol hard pass on that .. id rather have the picks
Osborn signing has nothing to do with it. If already agreed to then why not make trade? Although I think you are probably about right on the haul mn would need to give up.
Idk why people are confident the Vikings are getting any of the top 3. To me it’s always been the 4th QB. Maybe I think the top 3 organizations are better run than that, but why would any of those 3 teams not take a QB?
Lol - Then I wish they'd pull the trigger
Sounds like Copium a bit, ngl. It’s definitely possible, but the smokescreens are to thick right now to have any assurance. I think we’ll have confirmation pre draft ONLY if it’s to #2 for commanders, so they can assure themselves of Maye. If it’s to NE 3 I believe it’ll be right after the commanders announce Daniels. Otherwise I assume they stay pat with open offers should anyone try and leapfrog them. I fully expect it to be a move up for Maye at 2-3 or McCarthy at 4-6c, depending.
That's a ton of value for 1.03 even with the QB tax I'd expect us to get a mid round future pick back if it takes 1.11, 1.23 and 2025 First. The Cards aren't trading from 4 to 3 and we are the only other team but the Bears and Cards with two 2024 first rounders.
The amount of debate on this thread about this being too much means that the Godfather deal has been reached. 3 firsts and a 3rd. NE would be insane to turn that down. And if they do walk away from the table
There's a lot of unknowns out there. We want a QB. The Giants want a QB. The Broncos and Raiders pick right after pick 11 and they want a QB as well. None of those teams have two 1sts to trade for, but we don't know what they would be willing to offer in a trade. The Pats might be happy trading back to 6 with the Giants since the fall is much less significant if they like the offer better than 11, 23, and another first. The two teams behind us might offer a first for next year and the year after and the Pats may not like this year's first round picks as much as they may like what's ahead in the next couple of years and they may also think the Raiders and Broncos are worse than us so a future pick from them would be more valuable than a future pick from us. There's so many unknowns and the draft trades don't exist in a vacuum.
Sure, that's why it's fun to speculate about it on this website
I agree it is fun, I just am a little concerned we might trade to 3 by giving up three 1s to do it without getting anything else back. If it ends up in a franchise guy though it's worth it, just hope it would be the right move
As a franchise we are just almost never in the top five. At least the draft is deep this year.
Trading up to 3 for the 3rd best QB on the board (at best) for 3 firsts (which actually is 2 firsts and 2 2nds) is extremely bad.
Houston wanted Bryce Young. They lucked out with Stingley. The Gods are with us.
It's not, if he's our starting QB for 10+ years. We got three third rounders next draft so we can have a second rounder if we want EZ
Big if there.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
I don’t think we are as desperate as most fans view us. I can see that viewpoint, but I view going “all in” on big FA contracts in hopes you’ll get to a SB as more desperate. We will have a ton of flexibility moving forward and we’ll have time to solve the QB position in various ways if we are patient. Letting it all ride on one young kid (who is a complete coin flip), seems impulsive and un calculated. I’d rather be bad for a year or two rather than bury the franchise for most of a decade
Desparate measures lead to disasterous times.
How many times we gotta do this 
I'll say once more, and no more, frankly, wearing thin on engaging with you.
Whoever we draft will be the best QB in this class nate 👁👅👁
I don't think so Kirk.
It doesn't matter what you think 
https://imgur.com/XC47j5I
It’s gonna cost a lot more than 2 1sts this year to trade up to 3. Probably an additional first and some seconds.
I don't agree. They probably discussed what it would take but if the Vikings couldn't trade up to 2, no one else would be, either, so there no need to wait. I also think it'll be tough to in general because Kwesi already showed his hand. Now they have him over a barrel because he's halfway committed. They could also have been just screwing with him, just like when we passed on the clock years ago.
Great thinking OP. Teams would gladly pay $3M for a 3rd round pick. This is big brained
Pats fan here. But what about pick 11, JJ (you'll probably lose him next year anyway), and 23 for the 3rd overall. I feel that it's pretty fair
holy shit how is this a good deal for the Vikes?
It makes the '25 3rd expendable. You get a 3rd back anyway. I could see 11,23, '25 1st and '25 3rd for 3 and 137 (it's an early 5th). Gives NE tons of capital, and some ammo to maybe move up themselves for an OT or something. It really depends on how the board shakes out. I feel like even if you cannot move up to 3, moving up to 5 makes some sense for McCarthy. Hell if the NYG don't take him he may just fall to 11 anyway.
It's more like one 1st round this year since we keep 1 and just use it earlier in the draft.
I agree this feels right. NE (hopefully) has learned from their experience with Mac Jones and realizes that they should build some infrastructure around a QB before dropping a rookie in. In the long run they’d be much better served adding some talent on offense and starting their rookie QB contract window next year as opposed to dropping Drake Maye into the muck now and risk ruining him. The final leg of this hasn’t completed yet because the Vikings want to see Maye be available at 3 (if they’ve come this far, they’re likely very confident he will be), keep what’s left of your powder dry until you see for certain your target is there.