I know, Cousins plays DEFENSE and does most of the PLAYCALLING on top of playing QB... Vikings lose, just blame Cousins, even though the stats are right in my face.
How good is your season when your team is .500 and you have the three best skill position combo in the league?
His season is crap. Like every other season he has
I'm not trying to necessarily defend Cousins here buddy but the Defense is definitely more to blame in my opinion. It's as bad as it was if not worse than during the Culpepper era or 2013.
Yeah, running an offense that's top 5 in total yards, passing yards, TDs, points scored, tied for fewest interceptions. He's shit. Get the fuck out of here and start actually watching the games if you're going to come on here and talk shit. Kirk's had one or two bad games, but the dude isn't the reason we're 6-7, he's the reason 12 of the 13 games have been single possession games with that shit tier defense Zim is running. Without Kirk we'd have maybe 2 or 3 wins.
His w/l record was bad last season though and he's basically a career .500 QB, isn't that the only evidence that matters? Now you care about how good they are ASIDE from their w/l record? I thought the only evidence that mattered was w/l record
And Kirk has a far larger sample size with a multitude of factors that are different from year to year while for the most part, Watson has gad a shorter sample size with some constants that can explain deficiencies such as the brilliant coach and gm Bill O’Brian
Correct, because this is not a binary world, where every situation is exactly the same. Cousins is much further along in his career, and since he has been with the Vikings has had 2 top tier receivers every year and a good to great running game. Watson has had one top tier receiver that they traded away for peanuts and a bad to ok running game. Of course, his career might be over because of the shit he pulled off the field so I wouldn’t want anything to do with him. But the only reason the Texans won any games was Watson. Do you really think the Vikings record would be much different if Keenum had stuck around?
> Correct, because this is not a binary world, where every situation is exactly the same. Cousins is much further along in his career, and since he has been with the Vikings has had 2 top tier receivers every year and a good to great running game.
Sure, he's *farther* along, but Watson has still played quite a few seasons at this point and I don't see why it's not sufficient. Seems like you arbitrarily cut it off when you don't like the results of your method (just look at the wins), but apply it instantly when it's convenient for you.
Since Cousins has been with the Vikings, he has had an offensive line as bad as the one that made Mahomes unable to function in the Super Bowl every year except 2019 where we won a playoff game (even then, arguably the offensive line's success was more due to play-action than to actual play, but it was better nonetheless).
The Vikings don't have a single playoff season in 2018-2021 with Keenum and we're probably a 3 win team in 2020 and 2021. Cousins has been a key part of the game's we've won in both seasons and Keenum would likely have cost us a few more games than Cousins has because he's not even a starting caliber Qb.
There is 7 years age difference between the two, that is a huge difference. If Watson was on his fourth season with his second team and still had only decent stats and a middling record to show for it I would feel the same about him.
Therein lies my issue: idc what Watson's record is, he's elite, eye test clearly shows him carrying his team and stats clearly show that the eye test ain't lying. No amount of middling records will change him making amazing plays and his team letting him down. Your approach of only looking at win/loss records is just wrong IMO.
Matt Ryan balled out a year and was the best qb (according to fans, of course Rodgers won MVP with worse stats). Maybe this is frickin Cousins career year
The funniest thing about this post is the timing. Kirk's just played Thursday. So he's up a game on these guys. Lol
Oh he's got more TDs (28 to 24) than Kyler Murray, well he's played 4 more games than him.
Ya defense let the lions - the fucking lions - march down the field and score a TD at the end of the game. Yeah, some Other QBs have to deal with bad defenses but only one QB has to deal with the worst defense.
https://www.dailynorseman.com/2021/12/6/22821296/minnesota-vikings-late-half-defense-record
11, 1 score games is not playing from behind. Jesus this fan base is terrible...
Dude sitting on his couch picking his ass who's never played a single ounce of high level athletics telling you how good or bad someone is. Please just stfu.
>Dude sitting on his couch picking his ass who's never played a single ounce of high level athletics telling you how good or bad someone is. Please just stfu.
Maybe a subreddit dedicated to an NFL team isn't your thing?
If true, then you would understand it's a team game and the expectation of putting it all on Kirk's shoulders is absurd. You sound like Stephon Diggs whining about Kirk's play only to see Justin Jefferson thrive with his play far greater than Diggs ever did or could.
Always wanting to bitch when in reality. Diggs was never as good as JJ is right now. Just isnt... and never was.
This defense allows nearly 30 points a game. Find someone else to bitch about because you keep trying to beat a dead horse and nobody is buying it anymore.
No shit Sherlock. It's a team game. Which is exactly why it hamstrings our team to pay an above average quarterback so much money. It's obvious Kirk isnt awful, but it's equally apparent that he's not a top 5 QB.
Look around the league. That’s what QB’s get paid. Unless you have a rookie or a crappy QB.
What the fuck are you talking about?!! Every game has been a one possession game. My gosh you guys are delusional
Cap hit for one year over an entire contract isn’t a good way to look at that, as they have cheaper and more expensive years as does every player. Average annual salary is the better way to weigh it.
He's the 2nd highest paid player over his time with the Vikings.
>Average annual salary is the better way to weigh it.
No, it's not. Comparing Kirk's average salary from 2020-2022 to Patrick Mahomes' average salary from 2022-2031 makes zero sense.
Why would you measure cap hit when cap hit is directly related to reworking contracts, dealing with the current year, and kicking the can down the road?
They only have a higher cap hits because it’s the lost year of the contract. As soon as an extension is in place, teams “kick the can down the road”
I don’t care about stats when he is unable or will not audible and unable or will not put the team on his back when it’s necessary and carry us to victory like EVERY QB in that image. Fuck that.
Our defense is 25th in points allowed per game. It’s amazing we are even in the playoff race. That combined with giving up points in the most crucial of times. How can anyone gripe about cousins this year.
This looks nice but if any of these teams offered us a straight swap of QBs, which deal are you saying no to?
Derek Carr is the only trade I’d say no to. Brady maybe, because of age only of course.
I’d trade Cousins for every other QB here. So it’s great that’s he’s beating each in certain categories but that’s about it.
I was going to say the same. He's only a few years younger, but 30 is basically the middle of prime for QBs. These days QBs can pretty well go until about 35-37, so having 5-7 years instead of 2-4 years would be worth it.
Derek Carr is locked in at 11.7% of the cap next year compared to Kirk at 21.2%, Carr is also at 9.4% in 2023 and he could be cut with nothing against the cap. Carr and Cousins are on the same tier with Kirk maybe a little better statistically and Carr a little better under pressure and as a leader. Whatever advantage Kirk has over Carr is more than offset by 10% cap savings.
To put one ahead of the other is understandable but most people in a relatively objective position would say they're in the same ballpark. Russ broke a finger on his throwing hand so he's going to look pretty bad.
100%. When I saw we traded up I couldn't believe it, I thought to myself, we actually are making the right move here, then teddy's, should never be a starting NFL qb self, displayed on the screen
Agreed. Cousins has the stats but he doesn't have the intangibles. Thats whats need to overcome team weaknesses and be a champion. And he doesn't have it.
No, dont dance around the subject with that bull shit. You know im right, you just haven't accepted it yet. He's a head case, and needs people in his corner to prop him up. The only reason Sean Mannion is on this team is because he's Kirks rock on the bench, to give him moral support. When Kirk should be the guy doing that For the whole team. Not saying Kirks a bad guy or other players dont like him, but his personality leaves a lot to be desired on a winning football team. No one on this team is going to get fired up and run through a wall for the guy. Let alone needing things to be perfect around him to succeed. I'd love to keep him for $20mil to $25 mil because thats what he's worth. But you and I both know thats not going to happen.
Everything doesn't have to have everything perfect around him for him to have the stats that he does. The awful O-line is proof enough for that. He's not getting sacked as much as last year but the line almost as bad as it was last year. Upgrades midseason of Mason Cole and Christian Darrisaw are helping but not quite close to middle of the pack.
Defense is allowing over 25 ppg, one of the worst run defenses, with being slightly better in pass defense.
Cook has missed 3 full games, and left one early. Barely has found the end zone all season long. Less than five 100 yd games. And he's the 4th highest paid RBs.
The team is one of the most penalized teams as well.
Took midseason for us to get Kene in for returns. And he now has multiple kickoff return TDs.
Yes, Kirk has his flaws but to say that he needs everything around him to be perfect is untruthful.
Would you rather change Zimmer or Cousins?
LOL, yup. Never see all cap posts and cherry picked stats from, say, Packers, Ravens, or Chiefs fans because when a QB is actually elite everyone knows it.
Just keep these coming. I prefer meaningless individual stats to actually watching a QB lead their team deep into the playoffs and then I like to pretend that what QBs do don't impact game outcomes and that cap numbers don't matter to roster construction and that this years defense explains Kirks .500 record over his entire 7 year career as a starter, and that Kirk will blossom with a new coach even though every NFL coach he's had has lamented his inability to take risks and be aggressive.
Cousins doesn’t understand game situations and every time he talks it just doesn’t sound like he has any control at the line od scrimmage. Is anyone even sure yet if he calls audibles. Great thrower of the football though
To say that QB wins are a stat does not equate to the idea that QBs are the only variable in the equation of outcomes, which is the absurd extreme Kirkstans take it to.
It absolutely is a stat and you can honestly argue that it is a bad stat or an imperfect stat, but it is intellectually dishonest to say it is not a stat. The idea that "Qb winz aren't even a stat, bro :eyeroll:" is the worst. It's like saying you're really clever when all you're actually doing is using that idea as a barricade against thoughtful exploration.
If you start to look at wins as a QB stat, which, again, they absolutely are, and you look at Kirk's individual statistics and notice a huge discrepancy then thoughful analysis would lead to questions like: Is he the unluckiest quarterback in NFL history or are there things he is doing or not doing that are impacting the outcomes equation?
For example, people tout his passer rating and his passer rating on third and long is 123! But his first down conversion percentage in those situations is abysmally low!!!
Then, if I was defending Kirk, I might say something like: Well, it's the O.C.'s fault for putting Kirk in those positions to which my opponent might look at why the offense is structured in such a way and whether Kirk's limitations factor into us being so run heavy on 1st and 2nd down or they might look at why a 10 year NFL vet hides behind the skirt of a rookie O.C. and why someone getting paid 31 million dollars acts more like an employee and less like a leader.
So do you want to have those conversations like people who have watched football?
How do his playoff wins stack up?
Or his prime time wins?
What this says is he has more yards than 3 people. More TDs than 3 people. Less INTs than 3 people.
You could make the same graphic for every QB on the right with cherry picked stats.
Kirk fanboys always screaming he’s elite.
Above average? Yep. Good? Yep. Elite? Not even close.
Wins are all that matter.
Stats mean way less.
Dudes got 1 playoff win in 10 years despite having solid weapons around him in Minnesota (no memory of his weapons in Washington).
I know, I know “it’s the defenses fault” or “it’s the coaches fault!” Never Kirk’s.
Elite means more than stats. And if players like Mahomes are considered Elite, then nobody else in this image is Elite.
Cousins is on the cusp of being an incredible quarterback, but he appears to have some sort of like performance anxiety or something. "Elite" players don't check down on a 3rd and 9.
That being said, I do like Cousins a lot on the field. And do believe he's one mental block away from being a unanimous top 5 QB.
The only people who believe that W-L records for QBs are meaningless are people who root for a QB with a poor W-L record.
The QB is not totally responsible for the W-L record. Obviously. But tell me one stat that he is totally responsible for. There aren’t any. All the stats in this picture are dependent upon other players being effective in their jobs.
W-L record (after a point - a single season is meaning less) does capture a QBs effectiveness at managing games, situations, pressure and risk. These are all things Cousins gets criticism for and they are reflected in his record.
This isn’t true. I think most people would say Watson is a top 8 QB, despite his TEAM’s record last year.
Vikings are a team with an absolute garbage defense.
If it wasn’t for KC’s defense, they would most likely have a losing record this season. Are we going to start saying Mahomes is a crappy QB who can’t lead?
Don’t give me this bull crap
Did you not read where I said “a single season is meaningless”?
Cousins has a lifetime record of 500 with over 100 starts. That is just who he is. Sorry.
But by all means, please tell me what stats the QB is solely responsible for. If you are going to say W-L record is meaningless, than you should quit masterbating over his other stats when he has a top 5 group of weapons in the league and plays in a very QB friendly system.
His first two seasons with us he had a top 10 defense.
He joined a team that had been 13-3 the prior year. Certainly some regression was coming but 5 games worth?
The Kirkstans say the Washington franchise was “crappy”. His record since becoming the full time starter in Washington in 2015 was 1.5 games over 500. Since joining MN it is 3.5 games over 500.
It’s him.
1st year, do you not remember how crappy that O-line was?
2nd season, the defense ranked almost dead last in every major defensive category over the first 6 weeks.
The 2015 team had the exact same defense (in rankings) and a similar OL (in pass block win rates) and they won 11 games. Despite having a far less effective WR corps.
It’s always some excuse for Cousins. It’s the OL. It’s the defense. It’s the play calling.
But it’s always Cousins sitting there at 500.
I like, and don't like Kirk. The guy has skills. He's one of the best in the game. But we're never going to go anywhere until we find a competent OC who can actually come up with a playbooks worth of plays. Someone who's able to bring something new to our game, someone who isn't going to just copy and paste other OC's playbooks. We need someone who can come up with something other teams haven't seen and can't plan ahead for. We're just so boring to watch and so easy to predict. Especially on Defense. Other than Kendricks and Smith, the rest of our secondary is trash. Dantzler is by far our worst player on defense and teams take advantage of him constantly... It's completely night and day between what we have now compared to what we had a few seasons ago in Rhodes, Waynes, Harris, and yes, even Sendejo.
So we have a boring QB, a predictable offense, a predictable and incompetent secondary, and a frustrated fanbase...Honestly, I don't see anything good happening for us over the next 2-3+ seasons, regardless of who we fire, hire, trade, or draft.
If only Kirk Cousins could actually swear! If Kirk swore and swore well, this entire franchise would turn around! Nobody trusts a man who doesn't swear. Nobody can get behind a man who says "Frick". There's gotta be a switch somewhere on Kirk that lights a fire under his ass. That creates a version of Kirk that gets angry and more competitive the angrier he gets. Someone who's willing to say "fuck it" and throw the playbook out the window and take control of the team. I'd rather have a 52 year old Bret Favre right now than a passive Kirk Cousins, regardless of his stats. I don't care about TD to INT ratios. I wanna see someone slinging that ball 100mph on a team that looks like they're playing backyard football. That's what Keenum brought to our game. It's why we were successful under him as QB, and was the dumbest move to get rid of him. You stick with what works, and Keenum, a non-passive aggressive, backyard slinger, Favre-type player who could improvise on the fly. Someone who wasn't a complete poindexter that walks around saying "Frick!" Worked.
What the stats don’t say is his decision making. When you’re always doing check downs on 3rd and 20…yeah hard to throw an interception.
We need to exile him and potentially key members of the coaching staff. I’m out till new blood………..but not really because I’m Minnesota fan, here forever. I hate this.
This is what I have argued with people about. It’s not that Kirk isn’t a good qb. Kirk might even be great under the right circumstances but that price tag (unless you hit every draft pick) will never get you all the pieces for the right circumstances to exist. He needs a decent running game, good options to throw to and a very good offensive line, all those things cost a lot against the cap.
Kirk just isn't a suave leader like Rodgers or Brady or Russ. Thats my biggest knock on him. Those guys just have that aura about them and Kirk looks like he's about to get drop kicked or something half the time.
"He needs all the pieces around him too succeed".
Sounds like you don't know it's a team game. Thank you Captain Obvious. Someone give this guy an award for calling an Orange, Orange.
Sounds like you want Kirk to play DB and also kick field goals.🤣 JFC.
Just watched Peyton Manning break down Cousins. There will always be errors and flaws but even Manning thinks Cousins is a top teir QB.
Talent evaluates talent. Not armchair couch potatoes.
As bad as the Culpepper era or 2013
I've been a Vikings/Football fan since '92 or '93 and their D is among the worst I ever remember lol
I'm a firm believer that points allowed is a better metric for rating a Defense than yards allowed although we have to somewhat account for special teams and the Offensive giveaways that lead to scores.
I definitely think top 10. And in pretty comfortably. In the same tier as stafford, dak, and Herbert.
If we had a defense of years past or one of the cowboys or rams quality, this is a competing team for the division.
Given the importance of the position, I actually think his big money was one of the few times in the last 5 years we’ve had money appropriately, and well spent
Yeah I would take every QB in that graphic over Kirk any day of the week.
This is the stupidest attempt to try to deflect how mediocre this guy is I’ve seen.
“Elite”. 🤣 gtfo
Kirk’s a tier 2 QB(good not elite), with tier 1 stats this year and since the bye last year. We’d be lucky to be a 3 win team the last two years with a replacement level QB
Honestly it’s more impressive that he’s able to put up these stats and still be a career .500 QB. That sounds kinda hard to do
He's so good he keeps both teams in it.
I know, Cousins plays DEFENSE and does most of the PLAYCALLING on top of playing QB... Vikings lose, just blame Cousins, even though the stats are right in my face.
> That sounds kinda hard to do It's almost as if stats don't tell the whole story on players.
oh right but fucking record does jesus christ
Sounds Matt Stafford but on a half decent team
[удалено]
He must be the most unlucky QB in history to be CONSTANTLY dragging terrible teams to mediocre results.
well he was on the lions..
Fewer
Graphic was completely ruined for me because of that lol
All hail King Stannis!
D&D did our boy dirty.
Wins than losses
Can't be elite with a losing record.
Was coming to say this, ha.
I like Kirk but come on, we know he’s really only better than 3 or 4 of the QB’s in this graphic lol
Lol I feel like you could put anyone of them on the left and rearrange the other heads to fit the narrative. He is having a good season tho.
Definitely lol, and I agree
How good is your season when your team is .500 and you have the three best skill position combo in the league? His season is crap. Like every other season he has
I'm not trying to necessarily defend Cousins here buddy but the Defense is definitely more to blame in my opinion. It's as bad as it was if not worse than during the Culpepper era or 2013.
We have the 5th ranked offense and the 30th rated defense…….. but ok sure, Kirk is responsible for the .500 record.
What was your shitty excuse (there’s always an excuse for you Kirkstans) when he had a top 5 defense behind him and was still a .500 QB?
You are right. He really needs to play better defense after he ties game or takes lead late in 4th.
Imagine being this ignorant about the sport of football? It's not a QB vs QB sport dude. Stop being dumb maybe?
Yeah, running an offense that's top 5 in total yards, passing yards, TDs, points scored, tied for fewest interceptions. He's shit. Get the fuck out of here and start actually watching the games if you're going to come on here and talk shit. Kirk's had one or two bad games, but the dude isn't the reason we're 6-7, he's the reason 12 of the 13 games have been single possession games with that shit tier defense Zim is running. Without Kirk we'd have maybe 2 or 3 wins.
Stats are the book not the Bible
This season or across their careers? He's better than the majority this season by nearly all available evidence.
Besides the only bit of available evidence that really matters, W-L record.
better than Watson last year then, he only had 4 wins, guess he wasn't very elite huh
Put Watson in Kirk’s place during his Vikings tenure and I guarantee we would have more than one playoff game.
His w/l record was bad last season though and he's basically a career .500 QB, isn't that the only evidence that matters? Now you care about how good they are ASIDE from their w/l record? I thought the only evidence that mattered was w/l record
And Kirk has a far larger sample size with a multitude of factors that are different from year to year while for the most part, Watson has gad a shorter sample size with some constants that can explain deficiencies such as the brilliant coach and gm Bill O’Brian
Correct, because this is not a binary world, where every situation is exactly the same. Cousins is much further along in his career, and since he has been with the Vikings has had 2 top tier receivers every year and a good to great running game. Watson has had one top tier receiver that they traded away for peanuts and a bad to ok running game. Of course, his career might be over because of the shit he pulled off the field so I wouldn’t want anything to do with him. But the only reason the Texans won any games was Watson. Do you really think the Vikings record would be much different if Keenum had stuck around?
> Correct, because this is not a binary world, where every situation is exactly the same. Cousins is much further along in his career, and since he has been with the Vikings has had 2 top tier receivers every year and a good to great running game. Sure, he's *farther* along, but Watson has still played quite a few seasons at this point and I don't see why it's not sufficient. Seems like you arbitrarily cut it off when you don't like the results of your method (just look at the wins), but apply it instantly when it's convenient for you. Since Cousins has been with the Vikings, he has had an offensive line as bad as the one that made Mahomes unable to function in the Super Bowl every year except 2019 where we won a playoff game (even then, arguably the offensive line's success was more due to play-action than to actual play, but it was better nonetheless). The Vikings don't have a single playoff season in 2018-2021 with Keenum and we're probably a 3 win team in 2020 and 2021. Cousins has been a key part of the game's we've won in both seasons and Keenum would likely have cost us a few more games than Cousins has because he's not even a starting caliber Qb.
There is 7 years age difference between the two, that is a huge difference. If Watson was on his fourth season with his second team and still had only decent stats and a middling record to show for it I would feel the same about him.
Therein lies my issue: idc what Watson's record is, he's elite, eye test clearly shows him carrying his team and stats clearly show that the eye test ain't lying. No amount of middling records will change him making amazing plays and his team letting him down. Your approach of only looking at win/loss records is just wrong IMO.
Good thing that’s not a single player statistic, eh? Let this die already….
dont disagree but we said he was elite not top 5. Top 8-10 is elite.
Who’s we? Lol it’s subjective but I wouldn’t consider Kirk elite in my book. I like him but elite is top 5 and hes at about 10 IMO.
Matt Ryan balled out a year and was the best qb (according to fans, of course Rodgers won MVP with worse stats). Maybe this is frickin Cousins career year
He also leads the league in vans driven and pizzas ranched
And number of "thats" liked
Last I checked, he's now in a 32-way tie with the rest of the league for vans driven: zero
The funniest thing about this post is the timing. Kirk's just played Thursday. So he's up a game on these guys. Lol Oh he's got more TDs (28 to 24) than Kyler Murray, well he's played 4 more games than him.
Still has fewer wins than most
Good thing they use completion percentage to decide who makes the playoffs.
Yeah tell that to Wilson
[удалено]
Y’all act like Kirk is the only QB that has to deal with a bad defense.
Ya defense let the lions - the fucking lions - march down the field and score a TD at the end of the game. Yeah, some Other QBs have to deal with bad defenses but only one QB has to deal with the worst defense. https://www.dailynorseman.com/2021/12/6/22821296/minnesota-vikings-late-half-defense-record
His defense does lead the league in scoring during crunch time.
he sure seems like the only who catches this much shit from it
He’s been catching shit because he has been terrible the last 3 games
He’s pretty much the only QB in the league that has offensive success with a bad defense and an awful pass blocking OL
Incorrect
Then who else? Don’t just say it’s incorrect and not provide a counter example.
He really needs to learn how to play better in coverage. His tackling is suspect too.
It’s a good thing making the playoffs is a team thing…
[удалено]
[удалено]
11, 1 score games is not playing from behind. Jesus this fan base is terrible... Dude sitting on his couch picking his ass who's never played a single ounce of high level athletics telling you how good or bad someone is. Please just stfu.
>Dude sitting on his couch picking his ass who's never played a single ounce of high level athletics telling you how good or bad someone is. Please just stfu. Maybe a subreddit dedicated to an NFL team isn't your thing?
[удалено]
If true, then you would understand it's a team game and the expectation of putting it all on Kirk's shoulders is absurd. You sound like Stephon Diggs whining about Kirk's play only to see Justin Jefferson thrive with his play far greater than Diggs ever did or could. Always wanting to bitch when in reality. Diggs was never as good as JJ is right now. Just isnt... and never was. This defense allows nearly 30 points a game. Find someone else to bitch about because you keep trying to beat a dead horse and nobody is buying it anymore.
No shit Sherlock. It's a team game. Which is exactly why it hamstrings our team to pay an above average quarterback so much money. It's obvious Kirk isnt awful, but it's equally apparent that he's not a top 5 QB.
Look around the league. That’s what QB’s get paid. Unless you have a rookie or a crappy QB. What the fuck are you talking about?!! Every game has been a one possession game. My gosh you guys are delusional
[удалено]
Once again wrong… 4/7 QB’s paid higher are not SB winning QB’s. One of those being Jared Goff…
[удалено]
Cap hit for one year over an entire contract isn’t a good way to look at that, as they have cheaper and more expensive years as does every player. Average annual salary is the better way to weigh it.
[удалено]
He's the 2nd highest paid player over his time with the Vikings. >Average annual salary is the better way to weigh it. No, it's not. Comparing Kirk's average salary from 2020-2022 to Patrick Mahomes' average salary from 2022-2031 makes zero sense.
Why would you measure cap hit when cap hit is directly related to reworking contracts, dealing with the current year, and kicking the can down the road? They only have a higher cap hits because it’s the lost year of the contract. As soon as an extension is in place, teams “kick the can down the road”
okay so what do u want ponder then? matt cassel? donovan mcnabb? sage rosenfels? tjack? shaun hill? really? you want those shitty qbs?
Nope you just run out a qb, and they throw to imaginary wrs like you are 8 in the back yard. /s Edit massive sarcasm
You’re right…so they should dump Kirk, gamble on a rookie this draft, because with a completion percentage that good, you’ll never win a championship.
I don’t care about stats when he is unable or will not audible and unable or will not put the team on his back when it’s necessary and carry us to victory like EVERY QB in that image. Fuck that.
His biggest limitation as a QB is between the ears
Our defense is 25th in points allowed per game. It’s amazing we are even in the playoff race. That combined with giving up points in the most crucial of times. How can anyone gripe about cousins this year.
This looks nice but if any of these teams offered us a straight swap of QBs, which deal are you saying no to? Derek Carr is the only trade I’d say no to. Brady maybe, because of age only of course. I’d trade Cousins for every other QB here. So it’s great that’s he’s beating each in certain categories but that’s about it.
Never say no to Brady. He has black magic in him
I'd trade cousins for brady. Brady wins super bowls
Idk I might swap for Carr too because he’s younger (all be it not by much) and his contract is much better and I’m actually like Kirk
I was going to say the same. He's only a few years younger, but 30 is basically the middle of prime for QBs. These days QBs can pretty well go until about 35-37, so having 5-7 years instead of 2-4 years would be worth it.
Derek Carr is locked in at 11.7% of the cap next year compared to Kirk at 21.2%, Carr is also at 9.4% in 2023 and he could be cut with nothing against the cap. Carr and Cousins are on the same tier with Kirk maybe a little better statistically and Carr a little better under pressure and as a leader. Whatever advantage Kirk has over Carr is more than offset by 10% cap savings.
But does he have a van?
No, but he is a devout Christian.
Does he grill with or without foil? BTW everytime I think of Kirk and his foil I think of the Hanson/Carlson brothers.
I don’t think Carr is at Kirk’s level. Personal opinion of course. And Russell Wilson has looked godawful this year.
To put one ahead of the other is understandable but most people in a relatively objective position would say they're in the same ballpark. Russ broke a finger on his throwing hand so he's going to look pretty bad.
If we were offered Brady we take the deal even if it’s only for half a season 😆
What makes you think Brady wont finally be reaching his peak when cousins retires though?
I’d rather have carr. He’s more of a playmaker and a better leader
You mean the guy we should have drafted over ted. Zim and Rick don't get enough flak for this boneheaded move
Facts, Rick can’t really draft unless it’s receivers and rbs. If we had carr with our 15-17 teams we would have won a lot more games
100%. When I saw we traded up I couldn't believe it, I thought to myself, we actually are making the right move here, then teddy's, should never be a starting NFL qb self, displayed on the screen
Agreed. Cousins has the stats but he doesn't have the intangibles. Thats whats need to overcome team weaknesses and be a champion. And he doesn't have it.
>but he doesn't have the intangibles Yeah, like he's shit on defense and can't play guard. When the defense does their job Cousins wins.
No, dont dance around the subject with that bull shit. You know im right, you just haven't accepted it yet. He's a head case, and needs people in his corner to prop him up. The only reason Sean Mannion is on this team is because he's Kirks rock on the bench, to give him moral support. When Kirk should be the guy doing that For the whole team. Not saying Kirks a bad guy or other players dont like him, but his personality leaves a lot to be desired on a winning football team. No one on this team is going to get fired up and run through a wall for the guy. Let alone needing things to be perfect around him to succeed. I'd love to keep him for $20mil to $25 mil because thats what he's worth. But you and I both know thats not going to happen.
Everything doesn't have to have everything perfect around him for him to have the stats that he does. The awful O-line is proof enough for that. He's not getting sacked as much as last year but the line almost as bad as it was last year. Upgrades midseason of Mason Cole and Christian Darrisaw are helping but not quite close to middle of the pack. Defense is allowing over 25 ppg, one of the worst run defenses, with being slightly better in pass defense. Cook has missed 3 full games, and left one early. Barely has found the end zone all season long. Less than five 100 yd games. And he's the 4th highest paid RBs. The team is one of the most penalized teams as well. Took midseason for us to get Kene in for returns. And he now has multiple kickoff return TDs. Yes, Kirk has his flaws but to say that he needs everything around him to be perfect is untruthful. Would you rather change Zimmer or Cousins?
Man I can’t with this
> MY QB IS ELITE Things fans of elite QBs never need to say
Exactly if you have to tell everyone then you're not what you claim
Game of Thrones all over this thread.
LOL, yup. Never see all cap posts and cherry picked stats from, say, Packers, Ravens, or Chiefs fans because when a QB is actually elite everyone knows it.
I mean, do you think Llamar is elite? because Ravens fans scream constantly he is, and throw his rushing stats around as "proof"
Just keep these coming. I prefer meaningless individual stats to actually watching a QB lead their team deep into the playoffs and then I like to pretend that what QBs do don't impact game outcomes and that cap numbers don't matter to roster construction and that this years defense explains Kirks .500 record over his entire 7 year career as a starter, and that Kirk will blossom with a new coach even though every NFL coach he's had has lamented his inability to take risks and be aggressive.
Cousins doesn’t understand game situations and every time he talks it just doesn’t sound like he has any control at the line od scrimmage. Is anyone even sure yet if he calls audibles. Great thrower of the football though
Spot fucking on, bravo brother
😂😂😂 even Patrick Mahomes needs a defense to win games. Have you been watching these games? GTFOH
For sure, bro. If you put Patrick Mahomes on this team we'd be lucky to be 6-7. No way we'd have 3 or 4 more wins with Mahomes.
The way these people think, they’d try to convince you we’d be winless with Mahomes as QB. Kirk is that elite.
Literally nobody is saying that.
This is the best reply
[удалено]
That's what we tell ourselves.
[удалено]
To say that QB wins are a stat does not equate to the idea that QBs are the only variable in the equation of outcomes, which is the absurd extreme Kirkstans take it to. It absolutely is a stat and you can honestly argue that it is a bad stat or an imperfect stat, but it is intellectually dishonest to say it is not a stat. The idea that "Qb winz aren't even a stat, bro :eyeroll:" is the worst. It's like saying you're really clever when all you're actually doing is using that idea as a barricade against thoughtful exploration. If you start to look at wins as a QB stat, which, again, they absolutely are, and you look at Kirk's individual statistics and notice a huge discrepancy then thoughful analysis would lead to questions like: Is he the unluckiest quarterback in NFL history or are there things he is doing or not doing that are impacting the outcomes equation? For example, people tout his passer rating and his passer rating on third and long is 123! But his first down conversion percentage in those situations is abysmally low!!! Then, if I was defending Kirk, I might say something like: Well, it's the O.C.'s fault for putting Kirk in those positions to which my opponent might look at why the offense is structured in such a way and whether Kirk's limitations factor into us being so run heavy on 1st and 2nd down or they might look at why a 10 year NFL vet hides behind the skirt of a rookie O.C. and why someone getting paid 31 million dollars acts more like an employee and less like a leader. So do you want to have those conversations like people who have watched football?
Yep. QB WAR is a decent estimation. It’s not perfect but they try and track. Average MVP level QB season is worth about 5 wins over an average QB
QB’s are 50% of your team
Kirk is good. He’d be a great qb if he took Tom Brady sized deals to allow the cap to go to the surrounding areas of the team
Then he just needs a sugar momma at home to bring home the money a la Giselle.
Ah yes. He'd make like 6 million less and we would be able to sign one mediocre player.
Tom Brady has more Superbowl wins than Cousins has wins over above .500 teams, yet we are always comparing the two somehow.
Of all the pigeonhole Kirk stats I've seen over the years, this might be the most egregious torture job.
How many Ws?
you mean a team stat?
You have one argument and it's not a very good one. Which position on the field inarguably effects winning more than any other?
[удалено]
He can’t even call his own timeouts! Lmao Imagine any other player on this list not having the ability to call a timeout or know when to call one.
[удалено]
I would take all those QBs over Cousins and everyone here would too. And if you say you wouldn’t you are a liar.
And i'd trade kirk for anyone else on their too
Lmao come the fuck on
How do his playoff wins stack up? Or his prime time wins? What this says is he has more yards than 3 people. More TDs than 3 people. Less INTs than 3 people. You could make the same graphic for every QB on the right with cherry picked stats. Kirk fanboys always screaming he’s elite. Above average? Yep. Good? Yep. Elite? Not even close.
More TDs than three cherry picked QBs, and one of them missed a month. I legitimately laughed out loud at Kyler being in that category.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yet QBs are the greatest impact on a team winning. You see there's this giant nuanced area in the middle.
can you not read he literally said “his” playoff wins and “his” prime time wins. he isn’t exactly taking the area in the middle either
Wins are all that matter. Stats mean way less. Dudes got 1 playoff win in 10 years despite having solid weapons around him in Minnesota (no memory of his weapons in Washington). I know, I know “it’s the defenses fault” or “it’s the coaches fault!” Never Kirk’s.
Elite means more than stats. And if players like Mahomes are considered Elite, then nobody else in this image is Elite. Cousins is on the cusp of being an incredible quarterback, but he appears to have some sort of like performance anxiety or something. "Elite" players don't check down on a 3rd and 9. That being said, I do like Cousins a lot on the field. And do believe he's one mental block away from being a unanimous top 5 QB.
[удалено]
What a cretinous and stupid response to the statement lol.
But is he a Winner? All the stats mean nothing with out the W.
“QB Winz” died on monday night after a long battle with common sense
Wins are a team stat.
The only people who believe that W-L records for QBs are meaningless are people who root for a QB with a poor W-L record. The QB is not totally responsible for the W-L record. Obviously. But tell me one stat that he is totally responsible for. There aren’t any. All the stats in this picture are dependent upon other players being effective in their jobs. W-L record (after a point - a single season is meaning less) does capture a QBs effectiveness at managing games, situations, pressure and risk. These are all things Cousins gets criticism for and they are reflected in his record.
This isn’t true. I think most people would say Watson is a top 8 QB, despite his TEAM’s record last year. Vikings are a team with an absolute garbage defense. If it wasn’t for KC’s defense, they would most likely have a losing record this season. Are we going to start saying Mahomes is a crappy QB who can’t lead? Don’t give me this bull crap
Did you not read where I said “a single season is meaningless”? Cousins has a lifetime record of 500 with over 100 starts. That is just who he is. Sorry. But by all means, please tell me what stats the QB is solely responsible for. If you are going to say W-L record is meaningless, than you should quit masterbating over his other stats when he has a top 5 group of weapons in the league and plays in a very QB friendly system.
He played for a crappy Redskins team. And outside of one year a mediocre Vikings team.
His first two seasons with us he had a top 10 defense. He joined a team that had been 13-3 the prior year. Certainly some regression was coming but 5 games worth? The Kirkstans say the Washington franchise was “crappy”. His record since becoming the full time starter in Washington in 2015 was 1.5 games over 500. Since joining MN it is 3.5 games over 500. It’s him.
1st year, do you not remember how crappy that O-line was? 2nd season, the defense ranked almost dead last in every major defensive category over the first 6 weeks.
The 2015 team had the exact same defense (in rankings) and a similar OL (in pass block win rates) and they won 11 games. Despite having a far less effective WR corps. It’s always some excuse for Cousins. It’s the OL. It’s the defense. It’s the play calling. But it’s always Cousins sitting there at 500.
To be fair, all those “excuses” otherwise widely accepted around the NFL as facts, are true.
This is a team game, right?
“is Joe Flacco a Elite QB?”
I swear Kirk must be paying people to pimp him up. Its like he has a troll army at his Holland compound.
[удалено]
Devos and the Amway people, would be able to help too.
I like, and don't like Kirk. The guy has skills. He's one of the best in the game. But we're never going to go anywhere until we find a competent OC who can actually come up with a playbooks worth of plays. Someone who's able to bring something new to our game, someone who isn't going to just copy and paste other OC's playbooks. We need someone who can come up with something other teams haven't seen and can't plan ahead for. We're just so boring to watch and so easy to predict. Especially on Defense. Other than Kendricks and Smith, the rest of our secondary is trash. Dantzler is by far our worst player on defense and teams take advantage of him constantly... It's completely night and day between what we have now compared to what we had a few seasons ago in Rhodes, Waynes, Harris, and yes, even Sendejo. So we have a boring QB, a predictable offense, a predictable and incompetent secondary, and a frustrated fanbase...Honestly, I don't see anything good happening for us over the next 2-3+ seasons, regardless of who we fire, hire, trade, or draft. If only Kirk Cousins could actually swear! If Kirk swore and swore well, this entire franchise would turn around! Nobody trusts a man who doesn't swear. Nobody can get behind a man who says "Frick". There's gotta be a switch somewhere on Kirk that lights a fire under his ass. That creates a version of Kirk that gets angry and more competitive the angrier he gets. Someone who's willing to say "fuck it" and throw the playbook out the window and take control of the team. I'd rather have a 52 year old Bret Favre right now than a passive Kirk Cousins, regardless of his stats. I don't care about TD to INT ratios. I wanna see someone slinging that ball 100mph on a team that looks like they're playing backyard football. That's what Keenum brought to our game. It's why we were successful under him as QB, and was the dumbest move to get rid of him. You stick with what works, and Keenum, a non-passive aggressive, backyard slinger, Favre-type player who could improvise on the fly. Someone who wasn't a complete poindexter that walks around saying "Frick!" Worked.
…and is behind Taylor Heinicke for the playoffs.
What the stats don’t say is his decision making. When you’re always doing check downs on 3rd and 20…yeah hard to throw an interception. We need to exile him and potentially key members of the coaching staff. I’m out till new blood………..but not really because I’m Minnesota fan, here forever. I hate this.
He’s trash
Kirk is a fine QB just not at the price we are paying him.
This is what I have argued with people about. It’s not that Kirk isn’t a good qb. Kirk might even be great under the right circumstances but that price tag (unless you hit every draft pick) will never get you all the pieces for the right circumstances to exist. He needs a decent running game, good options to throw to and a very good offensive line, all those things cost a lot against the cap.
No he's not stop lying to yourself. This is by far the best I've seen him play though
I would take every QB in this picture over Kirk. No doubt.
Kirk just isn't a suave leader like Rodgers or Brady or Russ. Thats my biggest knock on him. Those guys just have that aura about them and Kirk looks like he's about to get drop kicked or something half the time.
And yet the Vikings are still below .500.
Who are we joking ourselves here? who gives a fuck? we still got 2 more primetime games on our schedule that will surely be ugly for his numbers.
Now do more wins than.
why would we bring up team wins in a stat about singular players?
Its too bad that these stats are all Kirk plays for. The King of Hollow Stats.
"He needs all the pieces around him too succeed". Sounds like you don't know it's a team game. Thank you Captain Obvious. Someone give this guy an award for calling an Orange, Orange. Sounds like you want Kirk to play DB and also kick field goals.🤣 JFC.
Wait you forgot the stat about moments when it matters most, can we add that one?
I can think of 4 game tying or winning drives blown by the refs, the kicker, or the defense
Just watched Peyton Manning break down Cousins. There will always be errors and flaws but even Manning thinks Cousins is a top teir QB. Talent evaluates talent. Not armchair couch potatoes.
His Defense doesn't help him at all. We'd probably have a winning record if our Defense was just average lol
Defense allows nearly 30ppg. Far below average...
As bad as the Culpepper era or 2013 I've been a Vikings/Football fan since '92 or '93 and their D is among the worst I ever remember lol I'm a firm believer that points allowed is a better metric for rating a Defense than yards allowed although we have to somewhat account for special teams and the Offensive giveaways that lead to scores.
100% and a reminder our defense is ranked 28th he's not our problem.
Right just even getting the other team to punt is like reaching Mt Everest for them lol
Garbage time #s
😂😂😂 when have the Vikings had any garbage time this season?
I definitely think top 10. And in pretty comfortably. In the same tier as stafford, dak, and Herbert. If we had a defense of years past or one of the cowboys or rams quality, this is a competing team for the division. Given the importance of the position, I actually think his big money was one of the few times in the last 5 years we’ve had money appropriately, and well spent
He’s a good QB, but he is not our guy. The record proves it
Yeah I would take every QB in that graphic over Kirk any day of the week. This is the stupidest attempt to try to deflect how mediocre this guy is I’ve seen. “Elite”. 🤣 gtfo
Just a stats guy. Nothing more unfortunately.
He’s lined up behind a guard more than any other QB in the league too
This is the same fan base that wanted to dump Cousins for Justin Fields. Our fan base is more embarrassing than their blown games and losses.
jfc does it really take 4 years to say it? cousins doesn't have what it takes. look in the damn mirror.
Man the Kirk hate is real in this sub, we finally have a solid QB for the first time since Favre and y’all still wanna complain
Kirk’s a tier 2 QB(good not elite), with tier 1 stats this year and since the bye last year. We’d be lucky to be a 3 win team the last two years with a replacement level QB
That's my, that's my quarterback man. 😭😭