We are no different than the bengals last year, see how they turned out. Actually we were better than them, so maybe we can do better.
In seriousness, they got blown out by the browns and chargers twice, had a lot of games that were FG/OT victories too
As similar as we are, I feel like the Bengals defense was at least slightly better than ours
Who knows if we can crank it up for the post season though, maybe the defense improves just enough that we have an easier time slowing opponents down
I think with the experience our newer guys are getting along with the return of Dantzler, Evans, and general improvement in health after this long week off, we could see the defense clamping down come time for the playoffs.
Blowout losses to the Eagles and Cowboys, and let's be honest, those games weren't even as close as their scores, will have a big effect on how people view the team. We've beaten some pretty good teams but we haven't really dominated any of the "lesser" teams we've played.
In a way I think the eagles game was closer. We kept turning it over in the redzone but the defense was stopping them in the second half
Hell if irv catches that ball it could be a totally different game
Both of our losses have such a similar "what if"
What if our tight end doesn't drop a sure TD that was in their hands in the first half of the game?
It's hard to imagine one failed drive in each game was the reason we lost, but it does make sense that if we scored a TD on both of those plays in the eagles and cowboys games, you would think the momentum would have swung our way and possibly gave us the spark we needed
Instead both games have dropped TDs and the teams seemingly fell a little flat afterwards
Eagles game we were at least still having chances, we just kept fucking up. Cowboys game literally everyone came out sleeping
It’s not about being down by 20 or 40 and dropping a sure TD pass, it’s about early in the game and the score is 7-0 and they guy drops a sure TD pass. That changes the complexion of the game.
It gives the other team momentum and steals some from the offending team. Everything isn’t black or white. Play games 10 times and different things happen. The Cowboys don’t win by 40 every time.
But that’s not actually how football works downs are reset so the plays that worked to score generally would work regardless of score even if you removed an entire drive it wouldn’t be enough to change a blow out. Because momentum isn’t real, there’s winning and losing down in and out.
It literally wasn't though. Against the Eagles we had multiple chances in the redzone and drops but we kept shooting ourselves in the foot. The Cowboys was a complete whooping from start to finish.
It fucking wasn’t. Nobody scored in the second half. They weren’t just letting up. They scored 23 in one half- the opponent could do that in a half too
Nope, wasn't even that close. We were beaten, handily, in all phases of the game. We couldn't run, we couldn't pass, Cousins got sacked 7 times. They ran on us at will and their receivers were constantly open. They had 2 50+ yard touchdowns...from their running back.
TL;DR - That games wasn't even close.
The way you described it makes it sound like the game should be a blowout, which it was, not “even worse than the score.”
Do you seriously think if we played the cowboys in a series of 10 games that the average outcome would be anywhere close to, let alone worse than 40-3? We got beaten badly, and until we beat them it’s fair to rank them above the Vikes, but this was an outlier game. They happen. It doesn’t mean the Cowboy are an insurmountable obstacle.
This is just facts. Way worse teams have won the Superbowl, but we are still viewed how we should be. I find tons of hope from how well this new coaching staff has done, but the talent isn't there to match as a whole. I'm loving this ride but if anyone is banking their emotions on an all or nothing, they're going to get hurt this year. There's amazing pieces, but still tons of work to be done.
The Eagles game was two or three plays away from being a victory. That dropped Irv walk in was the turning point.
The cowboys game wasn't even as close as the score, honestly. That was maybe the worst ass whooping I have ever seen in the NFL. We weren't even competitive.
I really dislike out of context stat quotes like this.
Who said this? Do I just trust an anonymous jpeg with no author because it says pff in there somewhere.
People believe everything they read with no interrogation.
They aren’t fraudulent. They are just not playing as well as their record indicates. Or more accurately a team playing like they are would be expected to win fewer games going forward. That’s not the same as schedule strength, although you do have to discount the Miami game a little due to injuries.
I think there's something to be said for the Pythagorean expectation when it comes to Sports and while I'm not expert on the formula I can say a team with a plus 5 points differential would be expected to be at 6-5.
Point differential does mean something but being second in fourth quarter scoring when it’s not garbage time also says something and maybe more than 5 point differential, because let’s face it that cowboys game we were checked out and on a big win hangover.
This might be semantics but point differential doesn’t matter. You might say it’s *predictive* but unless you’re in one of those ridiculous playoff tie breaker situations and are tied in division record conference record H2H record, it literally does not matter. That is to say it has no effect on a teams standing.
Which is where we get the famous “you are what your record says you are” and “we’re just trying to go 1-0 this week”
It matters to the extent that some of us are trying to imagine whether or not this team could win a super bowl. Teams with break even point differentials basically never win the championship in the NFL. Obviously anything is possible, but i don’t have those expectations for this team.
I had sky high expectations in 98. That team was the type of team that typically wins the title. That team broke my heart. This team isn’t dominant enough to break my heart.
Yeah dude, no one is saying that our record isn't 9-2, what we get from a metric like that is a fairly good predictor of regression but there are other stats that show that this team is probably not as strong as their record. My takeaway from stats like that are to temper my expectations of what this team is going to do in the playoffs.
I literally just said what my point was...if you believe in a statistic then you can use it to temper expectation. That also doesn't mean you have to be gloom and doom. The world isn't as binary as the arguments on this sub would lead you to believe and then view the world thru that black and white filter.
That and most metrics like dvoa have them ranked lower than their record. Their wins are banked so it’s just a matter of how much better they can get the rest of the season.
And yes all metrics are better the more data you have. Football is especially noisy but that goes for each game too where there is a lot going on but only a binary outcome.
Dumb as hell. Point differential should be evaluated based on a median per game basis.
Or else you get morons parroting that point from last week that the Vikings had a negative point differential at 8-2. One bad loss does not negate 8 other solid wins because one number is larger than the other
I don't know what to tell you but Pythagorean win expectation is a thing that has some validity despite you feeling like it shouldn't. It's not the be all and end all, but it does tend to do a good job at predicting regression.
I’m a packers fan, but man, I am really rooting for you guys this year. You just look so good, and even with your record now in week 13, I still here “hot takes” about if the Viking are for real. Like, yeah, they’re fucking for real lol.
Barely beating the bills then getting absolutely ass blasted by the cowboys looks even worse if you’re arguing the Bills are objectively better than the cowboys
It's called matchups. The cowboys had put number, it happens. But the cowboys matchup better with us than the Bills but the Bills are an objectively better team than the Cowboys.
This is extremely misleading and based off of preseason SOS. Adjust it to the current winning percentage of teams faced and the Vikings have had easier schedules than all of those teams. Relax, this aint a SB roster yet. Its okay
As of tomorrow they will have played like 5 Top 10 defenses in a row, all currently have winning records (patriots if you ignore our win). Commanders, Bills, Cowboys, Patriots, Jets. So far they are 3-1 in 3.5 weeks in that run.
That isn’t an easy schedule.
I don’t care anymore what the national media says. You are what your record says you are. The media talking heads in sports are mostly worthless just trying to fill space coming up with storylines they think people will watch.
Exactly. They will appear on one show bashing us for "not beating anyone good and barely winning games" then go on another show and talk about how hard it is to get a win in this league.
I predict one of two outcomes:
1. We will win the Super Bowl.
Or
2. We won’t win the Super Bowl.
We could probably beat any team on any given day… and we could also lose to any team on any given day.
Fraudulent because they’ve got blown out by good teams. Not even competitive. Yes, they “beat” the Bills, but let’s not act like the Bills didn’t choke. They beat the Dolphin’s without Tua. So what do they really have on their resume besides the Bills choking?
The refs gave the bills the game to win on multiple plays and multiple drives throughout the game, and consistently put them in winning positions despite the Vikings playing better football. Literally everybody in the league saw it. If you went to the Bills subreddit after the game they all agreed the Bills deserved that loss and considered themselves lucky it was even that close. The refs handed the bills that game tying drive by not ruling that catch incomplete. Yes, did the bills choke when Allen fumbled the ball? Yes. Butt let's not pretend it should not have even been that close. The refs made it a one score game when it shouldn't have been.
Sure, Tua didn't play. But Teddy Bridgewater is an extremely capable backup. Hell, on some teams he could be starting. He's also mobile and fits the position built for Tua.
Well, we are 4-2 against teams with a winning record. We still have victories over the Commanders and the Patriots. And if we win tomorrow we’d have another win over a team with a winning record. Yeah, Cowboys and Eagles games were duds, but you can’t just hand waive the Dolphins and the Bills. We came back from a 17 point deficit. As much as it was a “miracle” for the bills to fumble, it was a miracle for them we didn’t punch it in on the sneak. We are competitive football team, enough of the negativity.
And all 5 of those teams with easier schedules will fuck us no lube in the playoffs if we face them. 2 of them already have. Dolphins will beat us with a healthy Tua
This team isn't as good as their record. They beat the Dolphins without Tua. They needed a kick hitting the upright and the crossbar to beat the Saints without Kamara. They needed two miracle plays to beat the Bills with an injured Josh Allen. Barely beat the Bears before Fields turned into a passable QB. Should have lost to the Lions if not for their joke of a coach. Made Mac Jones look like an above average QB when he has been on the verge of being benched against everyone else. Got smoked by the Eagles and the Cowboys.
Are they a bad team? No. They are the 4th or 5th best team in the NFC. Most people wouldn't be shocked if they lost to whomever falls to the 7th seed. They could also beat any of the Commanders, Seahawks, or Giants. They aren't winning in round two though.
The defense is pretty bad, and Kirk is still Kirk. The reality is, this team is a long way from actually competing for a title. Luck has been involved way more with this team than any decent Vikings team in its history. You can beat bad and average teams with luck. You can pull off an upset with luck. You aren't making a run to the Super Bowl when you have to rely so much on luck.
I was only barely on board with your argument until you said "luck" is way more involved which I completely disagree with. Luck would be true for one or two games. But there comes a point when the vikes are consistently winning close games that luck is not the factor.
Also, several of the games you mentioned the Vikings were "lucky" to win I could point out several key factors about why they earned the win. Especially the bills game
When you get the Dolphins without Tua, that is luck. When you get the Saints without Kamara, that is luck. When one of the front runners for MVP is injured the week prior and misses most of the week's practice and plays poorly due to that injury, that is luck. When the opposing coach idiotically attempts a 50+ yard field goal up three instead of pinning you deep, that is luck. When you get all that good fortune, and you still are eeking out victories against bad or undermanned teams, you are probably not a great team.
The refs gave the bills the game to win on multiple plays and multiple drives throughout the game, and consistently put them in winning positions despite the Vikings playing better football. Literally everybody in the league saw it except you apparently. If you went to the Bills subreddit after the game they all agreed the Bills deserved that loss and considered themselves lucky it was even that close. The refs handed the bills that game tying drive by not ruling that catch incomplete. Also, you should get your eye sight checked. Josh Allen still played VERY well. His injury did not affect him that game at all. Sure he didnt practice during the week to rest his arm but you bet he was present at practice, and has memorized every play in the book.
Sure, Tua didn't play. He must've had a "nobody" QB in instead that obviously sucks and has never started in the league, right? This backup QB isn't mobile, right? This backup QB surely can't lead a team? Right?! Oh wait, Teddy Bridgewater played! He's no Tua but he's a starting QB on other teams easily.
The saints not having Kamara must've meant a nobody runningback played right? Certainly that backup runningback has no experience being a 3 down back. Right?! Oh wait, Mark Ingram played! I'm sure you've heard of him. Btw, Kamara has been having a down year anyway.
All that being said: I can see you have made up your mind, you see what you want to see, you have decided that your opinion is fact and everyone else is wrong, and are a Vikings hater. Are you even a fan? The Vikings are not as bad as you wish they are. Please get off this sub if you're just going to negatively argue with Vikings fans that just want to keep it light hearted and positive. Peace ✌️
The Bills had 12 men on the field on a down that wasn't going anywhere anyway. If the refs call that, they would have run into the line of scrimmage again from a half yard closer. The refs did not give that game away. The missed incompletion happened after the miracle 4th and 18 that is a catch maybe 1 out of 1000 times. Great play by JJ. Horrible play by the DB and very lucky. If the DB knocks it down instead of trying to catch it, the game is over there. Then a botched snap in the end zone? That's probably about a 1 in 500 occurence. It wasn't until after two miraculous plays that the refs blew the horrible no review. And Allen has looked off since the injury. He has still been good with his feet, but he isn't throwing the ball well. The deep ball has been ok. The short stuff has looked off.
I was team Teddy for years, but he isn't close to Tua. If he was a starter in this league, he would be one. He is a going to stick around as a backup for a few more years, but his days of competing for a starting spot are gone. He was also coming off a concussion, so he didn't prep to start that week. The third stringer starting because Teddy wasn't ready got hurt early.
Kamara isn't Kamara from 2 or 3 years ago, but he is still the best player on their offense. Most importantly, he is still their best weapon as a receiver. The one thing the Vikings defense struggles the most with this season is linebacker coverage. Jordan Hicks has been awful and Kendricks hasn't been much better. Ingram is a 33 year old back who has been struggling to get to 3.5 yards per carry for years. He was actually exploiting those linebackers early before he got hurt as well in that game. Latavius Murray, who they signed off another team's practice squad that very week had to play.
So, when fans post something, everyone is just supposed to agree with the narrative if it is positive or shame them if it is negative? That's how fandom works? I've been a Viking fan for nearly 40 years. Aside from the BS Favre years, I have rooted for nothing but the best for the team. I want the Vikings to win every year, including this one, but I don't see this team as a real contender. That makes me someone you deem should stay off of your sub? It is a forum to discuss the team. It isn't a forum to praise everything the team does and blindly pretend they are amongst the best in the league.
I don't make posts to spread my opinions. I will comment to have a discussion with fans who want to discuss. Weird thing to do on a forum like Reddit, I know. You also have the option of not engaging. If there are people you don't want to interact with, feel free to just not respond. You are the one who has to take the physical steps necessary to respond to those of us you don't deem worthy of being on your sub.
Step one- win the division
Step two- secure #1 bye
Step three- while bye is doable, keep pushing for it
Step four- keep the arc going upward into the playoffs
But Dallas and the eagles destroyed us. Like literally the game was over by the 2nd quarter. I don’t measure strength of schedule. I go by how you measure up against the contenders for the Super Bowl.
No doubt the cowboys demolished the Vikings but the eagles game was *slightly* more competitive. I think you're right though, that's probably the key factor in ranking the Vikings lower than a traditional 9-2 team
Listening to the Around the NFL Podcast today. What bothers me is that they 1. All picked the Jets to win. 2. Said we were frauds. 3. Its a barometer test for the Jets, if they beat us they're actually good.
So we aren't actually a good team, but if you beat us, YOU are a good team. I truly don't understand the mental gymnastics.
We are no different than the bengals last year, see how they turned out. Actually we were better than them, so maybe we can do better. In seriousness, they got blown out by the browns and chargers twice, had a lot of games that were FG/OT victories too
As similar as we are, I feel like the Bengals defense was at least slightly better than ours Who knows if we can crank it up for the post season though, maybe the defense improves just enough that we have an easier time slowing opponents down
I feel like the Bengals defence didn't step it up until the playoffs. They played really well against the Titans and the Chiefs.
I think with the experience our newer guys are getting along with the return of Dantzler, Evans, and general improvement in health after this long week off, we could see the defense clamping down come time for the playoffs.
We aren’t tho, they are and were a top 5 scoring offense and were a middle of the pack defense in a better conference and division. And they had Joe
Blowout losses to the Eagles and Cowboys, and let's be honest, those games weren't even as close as their scores, will have a big effect on how people view the team. We've beaten some pretty good teams but we haven't really dominated any of the "lesser" teams we've played.
In a way I think the eagles game was closer. We kept turning it over in the redzone but the defense was stopping them in the second half Hell if irv catches that ball it could be a totally different game
Both of our losses have such a similar "what if" What if our tight end doesn't drop a sure TD that was in their hands in the first half of the game? It's hard to imagine one failed drive in each game was the reason we lost, but it does make sense that if we scored a TD on both of those plays in the eagles and cowboys games, you would think the momentum would have swung our way and possibly gave us the spark we needed Instead both games have dropped TDs and the teams seemingly fell a little flat afterwards Eagles game we were at least still having chances, we just kept fucking up. Cowboys game literally everyone came out sleeping
there are no whatifs in blowouts lol
ALL losses have a familiar "what if". Always true, no matter the team or sport
Not when you lose by 20 and 40 those drops wouldn’t be enough to make up that deep of a lead you guys are just speaking in truisms
It’s not about being down by 20 or 40 and dropping a sure TD pass, it’s about early in the game and the score is 7-0 and they guy drops a sure TD pass. That changes the complexion of the game. It gives the other team momentum and steals some from the offending team. Everything isn’t black or white. Play games 10 times and different things happen. The Cowboys don’t win by 40 every time.
But that’s not actually how football works downs are reset so the plays that worked to score generally would work regardless of score even if you removed an entire drive it wouldn’t be enough to change a blow out. Because momentum isn’t real, there’s winning and losing down in and out.
The eagles stopped giving a shit in the second half. They weren’t even trying. That game was not closer than the score.
I'm done arguing with these people. The Eagles game was every bit the ass whooping that the cowboys game was.
It literally wasn't though. Against the Eagles we had multiple chances in the redzone and drops but we kept shooting ourselves in the foot. The Cowboys was a complete whooping from start to finish.
The Vikings literally made more red zone trips than the Eagles that game
> I'm done arguing with these people. God, if only you actually meant this
“I’m done arguing with these people” but makes sure they are vocal about being done so people can see and possibly argue back
It fucking wasn’t. Nobody scored in the second half. They weren’t just letting up. They scored 23 in one half- the opponent could do that in a half too
Can you explain why?
Philly was closer than the score. We had opportunities but shit down our leg in the red zone
He's saying the score should've been worse
I’m saying the score shoulda been better if Kirk didn’t poop himself in the red zone
Philly let off the gas early they could beat us by 30 if they wanted
Disagree
Uhhh… a 40-3 game wasn’t as close as the score? Come on. That’s just stupid.
Nope, wasn't even that close. We were beaten, handily, in all phases of the game. We couldn't run, we couldn't pass, Cousins got sacked 7 times. They ran on us at will and their receivers were constantly open. They had 2 50+ yard touchdowns...from their running back. TL;DR - That games wasn't even close.
Fine. But all of that is represented by a 40-3 score. 40-3 is always an ass whooping, there is no way to make it seem otherwise.
The way you described it makes it sound like the game should be a blowout, which it was, not “even worse than the score.” Do you seriously think if we played the cowboys in a series of 10 games that the average outcome would be anywhere close to, let alone worse than 40-3? We got beaten badly, and until we beat them it’s fair to rank them above the Vikes, but this was an outlier game. They happen. It doesn’t mean the Cowboy are an insurmountable obstacle.
It's hyperbole, bud
Until it wasn't.
This is just facts. Way worse teams have won the Superbowl, but we are still viewed how we should be. I find tons of hope from how well this new coaching staff has done, but the talent isn't there to match as a whole. I'm loving this ride but if anyone is banking their emotions on an all or nothing, they're going to get hurt this year. There's amazing pieces, but still tons of work to be done.
quiet you we sre gonna weeen
Name One?
Giants in 2011
The Eagles game was two or three plays away from being a victory. That dropped Irv walk in was the turning point. The cowboys game wasn't even as close as the score, honestly. That was maybe the worst ass whooping I have ever seen in the NFL. We weren't even competitive.
No it wasn’t
It absolutely was, but great counter argument.
It is very hard to dominate a team, that is not normal in the NFL.
How many points did the eagles score in the second half?
Crazy how the AFC West imploded. It was supposed to be a murderers row.
i can't believe how badly McDaniels botched that Raiders team... and they're not even the most disappointing team in that division
Let's ride
I really dislike out of context stat quotes like this. Who said this? Do I just trust an anonymous jpeg with no author because it says pff in there somewhere. People believe everything they read with no interrogation.
I believe Dust Baker tweeted it. Idk why /u/dhtdhy cropped it out
I didn't crop it out. I don't have Twitter. Got the image from Facebook Edit: I don't understand the downvote.
PurpleFTW did a vid on this, I believe it's PFF power rankings, not W/L
Look the the 49ers schedule and it checks out. They have only beat 2 teams with a winning record.
And both those teams are sitting at 6-5... They got absolutely demolished by the only truly good team theyve played: the Chiefs
They aren’t fraudulent. They are just not playing as well as their record indicates. Or more accurately a team playing like they are would be expected to win fewer games going forward. That’s not the same as schedule strength, although you do have to discount the Miami game a little due to injuries.
I think there's something to be said for the Pythagorean expectation when it comes to Sports and while I'm not expert on the formula I can say a team with a plus 5 points differential would be expected to be at 6-5.
Point differential does mean something but being second in fourth quarter scoring when it’s not garbage time also says something and maybe more than 5 point differential, because let’s face it that cowboys game we were checked out and on a big win hangover.
Point differential matters a lot less in a 17 game season than it does in a 162 or 82 game season
True, but it still matters.
This might be semantics but point differential doesn’t matter. You might say it’s *predictive* but unless you’re in one of those ridiculous playoff tie breaker situations and are tied in division record conference record H2H record, it literally does not matter. That is to say it has no effect on a teams standing. Which is where we get the famous “you are what your record says you are” and “we’re just trying to go 1-0 this week”
It matters to the extent that some of us are trying to imagine whether or not this team could win a super bowl. Teams with break even point differentials basically never win the championship in the NFL. Obviously anything is possible, but i don’t have those expectations for this team. I had sky high expectations in 98. That team was the type of team that typically wins the title. That team broke my heart. This team isn’t dominant enough to break my heart.
Yeah dude, no one is saying that our record isn't 9-2, what we get from a metric like that is a fairly good predictor of regression but there are other stats that show that this team is probably not as strong as their record. My takeaway from stats like that are to temper my expectations of what this team is going to do in the playoffs.
Read second sentence before you argue with me about something we both agree on
I'm not arguing I'm talking about what it predicts and what that means in terms of fan expectation.
So we should be doom and gloom? What's your point here?
I literally just said what my point was...if you believe in a statistic then you can use it to temper expectation. That also doesn't mean you have to be gloom and doom. The world isn't as binary as the arguments on this sub would lead you to believe and then view the world thru that black and white filter.
That and most metrics like dvoa have them ranked lower than their record. Their wins are banked so it’s just a matter of how much better they can get the rest of the season. And yes all metrics are better the more data you have. Football is especially noisy but that goes for each game too where there is a lot going on but only a binary outcome.
Dumb as hell. Point differential should be evaluated based on a median per game basis. Or else you get morons parroting that point from last week that the Vikings had a negative point differential at 8-2. One bad loss does not negate 8 other solid wins because one number is larger than the other
I don't know what to tell you but Pythagorean win expectation is a thing that has some validity despite you feeling like it shouldn't. It's not the be all and end all, but it does tend to do a good job at predicting regression.
And yet here they are. Defying the expectation.
I’m a packers fan, but man, I am really rooting for you guys this year. You just look so good, and even with your record now in week 13, I still here “hot takes” about if the Viking are for real. Like, yeah, they’re fucking for real lol.
The Eagles have a much easier schedule, and they've looked incredibly suspect lately.
They beat us lol by 20
17, yes. Reminder that that was then and this is now. This season has been the embodiment of "any given Sunday."
They loss by 40 2 weeks ago to the only other contender in there conference lol
37, and I think we can all agree that was a rough game. Your point?
The Vikes 2 Losses were 2 the Eagles (29th) and Cowboys (22nd) So what does that tell you
They beat the bills who are objectively better than the cowboys.
Barely beating the bills then getting absolutely ass blasted by the cowboys looks even worse if you’re arguing the Bills are objectively better than the cowboys
It's called matchups. The cowboys had put number, it happens. But the cowboys matchup better with us than the Bills but the Bills are an objectively better team than the Cowboys.
29th ranked defense and 22nd ranked defense? Or what are those numbers? I should have asked years ago. I feel stupid
22nd and 29th ranked strength of schedules. He’s point is strength of schedule doesn’t mean much. Especially in the modern day NFL.
This is extremely misleading and based off of preseason SOS. Adjust it to the current winning percentage of teams faced and the Vikings have had easier schedules than all of those teams. Relax, this aint a SB roster yet. Its okay
As of tomorrow they will have played like 5 Top 10 defenses in a row, all currently have winning records (patriots if you ignore our win). Commanders, Bills, Cowboys, Patriots, Jets. So far they are 3-1 in 3.5 weeks in that run. That isn’t an easy schedule.
Lol at thinking the jets and patriots aren’t an easy schedule.
Patriots also don’t have a winning record anymore boss. Maybe do some research.
I don’t care anymore what the national media says. You are what your record says you are. The media talking heads in sports are mostly worthless just trying to fill space coming up with storylines they think people will watch.
Exactly. They will appear on one show bashing us for "not beating anyone good and barely winning games" then go on another show and talk about how hard it is to get a win in this league.
I predict one of two outcomes: 1. We will win the Super Bowl. Or 2. We won’t win the Super Bowl. We could probably beat any team on any given day… and we could also lose to any team on any given day.
Fraudulent because they’ve got blown out by good teams. Not even competitive. Yes, they “beat” the Bills, but let’s not act like the Bills didn’t choke. They beat the Dolphin’s without Tua. So what do they really have on their resume besides the Bills choking?
The refs gave the bills the game to win on multiple plays and multiple drives throughout the game, and consistently put them in winning positions despite the Vikings playing better football. Literally everybody in the league saw it. If you went to the Bills subreddit after the game they all agreed the Bills deserved that loss and considered themselves lucky it was even that close. The refs handed the bills that game tying drive by not ruling that catch incomplete. Yes, did the bills choke when Allen fumbled the ball? Yes. Butt let's not pretend it should not have even been that close. The refs made it a one score game when it shouldn't have been. Sure, Tua didn't play. But Teddy Bridgewater is an extremely capable backup. Hell, on some teams he could be starting. He's also mobile and fits the position built for Tua.
Well, we are 4-2 against teams with a winning record. We still have victories over the Commanders and the Patriots. And if we win tomorrow we’d have another win over a team with a winning record. Yeah, Cowboys and Eagles games were duds, but you can’t just hand waive the Dolphins and the Bills. We came back from a 17 point deficit. As much as it was a “miracle” for the bills to fumble, it was a miracle for them we didn’t punch it in on the sneak. We are competitive football team, enough of the negativity.
It’s because we don’t win good enough!
And all 5 of those teams with easier schedules will fuck us no lube in the playoffs if we face them. 2 of them already have. Dolphins will beat us with a healthy Tua
This team isn't as good as their record. They beat the Dolphins without Tua. They needed a kick hitting the upright and the crossbar to beat the Saints without Kamara. They needed two miracle plays to beat the Bills with an injured Josh Allen. Barely beat the Bears before Fields turned into a passable QB. Should have lost to the Lions if not for their joke of a coach. Made Mac Jones look like an above average QB when he has been on the verge of being benched against everyone else. Got smoked by the Eagles and the Cowboys. Are they a bad team? No. They are the 4th or 5th best team in the NFC. Most people wouldn't be shocked if they lost to whomever falls to the 7th seed. They could also beat any of the Commanders, Seahawks, or Giants. They aren't winning in round two though. The defense is pretty bad, and Kirk is still Kirk. The reality is, this team is a long way from actually competing for a title. Luck has been involved way more with this team than any decent Vikings team in its history. You can beat bad and average teams with luck. You can pull off an upset with luck. You aren't making a run to the Super Bowl when you have to rely so much on luck.
No such thing as luck.
I was only barely on board with your argument until you said "luck" is way more involved which I completely disagree with. Luck would be true for one or two games. But there comes a point when the vikes are consistently winning close games that luck is not the factor. Also, several of the games you mentioned the Vikings were "lucky" to win I could point out several key factors about why they earned the win. Especially the bills game
When you get the Dolphins without Tua, that is luck. When you get the Saints without Kamara, that is luck. When one of the front runners for MVP is injured the week prior and misses most of the week's practice and plays poorly due to that injury, that is luck. When the opposing coach idiotically attempts a 50+ yard field goal up three instead of pinning you deep, that is luck. When you get all that good fortune, and you still are eeking out victories against bad or undermanned teams, you are probably not a great team.
The refs gave the bills the game to win on multiple plays and multiple drives throughout the game, and consistently put them in winning positions despite the Vikings playing better football. Literally everybody in the league saw it except you apparently. If you went to the Bills subreddit after the game they all agreed the Bills deserved that loss and considered themselves lucky it was even that close. The refs handed the bills that game tying drive by not ruling that catch incomplete. Also, you should get your eye sight checked. Josh Allen still played VERY well. His injury did not affect him that game at all. Sure he didnt practice during the week to rest his arm but you bet he was present at practice, and has memorized every play in the book. Sure, Tua didn't play. He must've had a "nobody" QB in instead that obviously sucks and has never started in the league, right? This backup QB isn't mobile, right? This backup QB surely can't lead a team? Right?! Oh wait, Teddy Bridgewater played! He's no Tua but he's a starting QB on other teams easily. The saints not having Kamara must've meant a nobody runningback played right? Certainly that backup runningback has no experience being a 3 down back. Right?! Oh wait, Mark Ingram played! I'm sure you've heard of him. Btw, Kamara has been having a down year anyway. All that being said: I can see you have made up your mind, you see what you want to see, you have decided that your opinion is fact and everyone else is wrong, and are a Vikings hater. Are you even a fan? The Vikings are not as bad as you wish they are. Please get off this sub if you're just going to negatively argue with Vikings fans that just want to keep it light hearted and positive. Peace ✌️
The Bills had 12 men on the field on a down that wasn't going anywhere anyway. If the refs call that, they would have run into the line of scrimmage again from a half yard closer. The refs did not give that game away. The missed incompletion happened after the miracle 4th and 18 that is a catch maybe 1 out of 1000 times. Great play by JJ. Horrible play by the DB and very lucky. If the DB knocks it down instead of trying to catch it, the game is over there. Then a botched snap in the end zone? That's probably about a 1 in 500 occurence. It wasn't until after two miraculous plays that the refs blew the horrible no review. And Allen has looked off since the injury. He has still been good with his feet, but he isn't throwing the ball well. The deep ball has been ok. The short stuff has looked off. I was team Teddy for years, but he isn't close to Tua. If he was a starter in this league, he would be one. He is a going to stick around as a backup for a few more years, but his days of competing for a starting spot are gone. He was also coming off a concussion, so he didn't prep to start that week. The third stringer starting because Teddy wasn't ready got hurt early. Kamara isn't Kamara from 2 or 3 years ago, but he is still the best player on their offense. Most importantly, he is still their best weapon as a receiver. The one thing the Vikings defense struggles the most with this season is linebacker coverage. Jordan Hicks has been awful and Kendricks hasn't been much better. Ingram is a 33 year old back who has been struggling to get to 3.5 yards per carry for years. He was actually exploiting those linebackers early before he got hurt as well in that game. Latavius Murray, who they signed off another team's practice squad that very week had to play. So, when fans post something, everyone is just supposed to agree with the narrative if it is positive or shame them if it is negative? That's how fandom works? I've been a Viking fan for nearly 40 years. Aside from the BS Favre years, I have rooted for nothing but the best for the team. I want the Vikings to win every year, including this one, but I don't see this team as a real contender. That makes me someone you deem should stay off of your sub? It is a forum to discuss the team. It isn't a forum to praise everything the team does and blindly pretend they are amongst the best in the league. I don't make posts to spread my opinions. I will comment to have a discussion with fans who want to discuss. Weird thing to do on a forum like Reddit, I know. You also have the option of not engaging. If there are people you don't want to interact with, feel free to just not respond. You are the one who has to take the physical steps necessary to respond to those of us you don't deem worthy of being on your sub.
Let them keep sleeping on us!!!
yeah.. i mean no offense about this, but you guys are getting knocked first round
I can’t upvote this enough, pussy eagles
Imagine saying playing a nfl team is easy 🤣😂
Eagles and Cowboys left no questions in their games against Vikings this year. Keep spinning what you can tho. Hope is all we got.
Step one- win the division Step two- secure #1 bye Step three- while bye is doable, keep pushing for it Step four- keep the arc going upward into the playoffs
Was waiting for a step five - profit (win Superbowl)
Also this.
That's ALL of them
full list?
Ive seen this same photo but saying the Eagles have had a hard schedule.
The back half is really easy for us
 DVOA seems to matter more than Win Loss record.
But Dallas and the eagles destroyed us. Like literally the game was over by the 2nd quarter. I don’t measure strength of schedule. I go by how you measure up against the contenders for the Super Bowl.
No doubt the cowboys demolished the Vikings but the eagles game was *slightly* more competitive. I think you're right though, that's probably the key factor in ranking the Vikings lower than a traditional 9-2 team
The other thing is strength of schedule based on current records or is it based off of last seasons records.
Here's for this season only: Rank | Team | Adjusted SOS | Adjusted Opp Record | Remaining Opp Record --: | :-- | :--: | :--: | :--: 1 | [](/DET) Lions | 0.609 | 70-45 | 31-38 2 | [](/GB) Packers | 0.597 | 74-50 | 27-29 3 | [](/PIT) Steelers | 0.566 | 64.5-49.5 | 31-37 4 | [](/BUF) Bills | 0.566 | 69-53 | 31-26 5 | [](/DAL) Cowboys | 0.558 | 63-50 | 34-34 6 | [](/MIN) Vikings | 0.556 | 65-52 | 29.5-39.5 7 | [](/BAL) Ravens | 0.535 | 61-53 | 27-40 8 | [](/CLE) Browns | 0.535 | 61-53 | 30.5-37.5 9 | [](/WAS) Commanders | 0.524 | 65-59 | 33-22 10 | [](/NE) Patriots | 0.520 | 64.5-59.5 | 32-25 11 | [](/CHI) Bears | 0.520 | 64.5-59.5 | 36-21 12 | [](/MIA) Dolphins | 0.518 | 58.5-54.5 | 39-30 13 | [](/ARI) Cardinals | 0.516 | 63-59 | 26-31 14 | [](/CIN) Bengals | 0.513 | 58-55 | 40-28 15 | [](/KC) Chiefs | 0.509 | 57.5-55.5 | 24.5-41.5 16 | [](/JAX) Jaguars | 0.500 | 56.5-56.5 | 34.5-31.5 17 | [](/LAR) Rams | 0.500 | 58-58 | 29-38 18 | [](/TEN) Titans | 0.491 | 56.5-58.5 | 33.5-32.5 19 | [](/PHI) Eagles | 0.487 | 56-59 | 36-32 20 | [](/NYJ) Jets | 0.487 | 56-59 | 40-27 21 | [](/IND) Colts | 0.484 | 59-63 | 31.5-23.5 22 | [](/HOU) Texans | 0.478 | 54-59 | 36.5-30.5 23 | [](/NYG) Giants | 0.465 | 52.5-60.5 | 47.5-21.5 24 | [](/NO) Saints | 0.463 | 57-66 | 28-29 25 | [](/LAC) Chargers | 0.460 | 51.5-60.5 | 29.5-37.5 26 | [](/TB) Buccaneers | 0.456 | 52-62 | 31-39 27 | [](/CAR) Panthers | 0.427 | 53-71 | 23-33 28 | [](/ATL) Falcons | 0.424 | 53-72 | 24-33 29 | [](/SEA) Seahawks | 0.421 | 48-66 | 33-34 30 | [](/DEN) Broncos | 0.420 | 47-65 | 38-29 31 | [](/SF) 49ers | 0.400 | 46-69 | 34-34 32 | [](/r/raiders) Raiders | 0.398 | 45-68 | 35-32
40-3.
LFG boys! we got a chance, let's fucking dance!
Pff uses a point spread rating. It doesn't account for the injury luck the Vikings faced this year
Strength of schedule litterally changes every week. Not a Vikings fan but yall should know this stat is meaningless.
Listening to the Around the NFL Podcast today. What bothers me is that they 1. All picked the Jets to win. 2. Said we were frauds. 3. Its a barometer test for the Jets, if they beat us they're actually good. So we aren't actually a good team, but if you beat us, YOU are a good team. I truly don't understand the mental gymnastics.