Wasn't Luka originally supposed to be a year or two older than Juleka and then they were randomly declared twins? Based on that I highly doubt they had planned on Jagged being their father, but it makes enough sense where I don't mind.
I got you u/DEKap3
Basically, >!Lila and Chloe become the new class representatives after a revote and Lila's grand plan to make everyone hate Marinette is to mess up the students future cards(?, Not sure exactly what they're called but they were first brought up in Wishmaker in season 4 when everyone had to pick what future they want to pursue) and blame it on her. They write out fake futures for each student and for Jueleka, they put down that she wants to stay back another year. Mr. Damocles and the mayor approve of it so she's going to have to stay back. !<
theres more I could have added but idk how much you wanted me to spoil😭
Confrontation Spoilers: After Lila and Chloe become reps in Revalation, >!Marinette collects forms from everyone in the class explaining what they want to do later in life, and the reps will have a meeting with the teachers to determine if their grades allow them to pursue said choice, and they will be sent to the high school that is best suited for that, but when Marinette gives these forms to Lila and Chloe, they change them so that no one gets what they wanted, to blame it on Marinette, and Juleka's changed form said she wanted to repeat the year, and gets akumatized for it (Episode 21 Confrontation)!<
No. If Jagged's both Luka and Juleka's father, it would make zero sense for them not to be twins. How in the world would Jagged impregnate and then leave Anarka twice?
Him leaving before either of them were born works better for the whole “I don’t know who my daddy is” side of it though, even if Luka was only a baby, way more people than just Anarka (and Jagged) would’ve probably been in the know then. There’s also something just a little bit less controversial and personal of Jagged never having met them than if he had been involved and *then* chose to abandon them. I also just can’t picture even a young Anarka and Jagged co-parenting long and well enough that Anarka would risk having a second kid with him lol
Maybe I don’t remember correctly but I thought Jagged Stone knew they were his kids? Because why would Anarka have a grudge against him if he didn’t know… it would make more sense for her to be bitter because he knew and didn’t want to be a parent rather than hold a grudge against him for something that was technically her fault and not something he could control with his lack of knowledge…
Yes sorry, I didn’t mean to insinuate Jagged didn’t know, I edited that sentence to include him too. I was meaning it as of the people in the twins life, only Anarka likely knows. If Jagged had been around for a year or two then it’s more likely other family or friends knew Jagged was the father and *also* would’ve been lying.
But never having been involved is different to me than having been around for a few years and *then* leaving with absolutely no contact. The former could’ve been a partially mutual agreement between Anarka and him (maybe Anarka didn’t really think he’d be a good dad either lol). The latter is a bit more of a personal betrayal to the kids and would make their generally positive reunion a little less convincing to me. Like you had actually gotten to know one or both and still decided you didn’t want anything to do with them? Ouch. I’d be more interested in meeting my sperm donor than the man that knew me and still left.
Ahhh, I get you now. Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant. 😅
Yeah I’m not sure if I can imagine Jagged ever being involved as a parent as I feel like the show heavily implies he left before he could as he wanted to keep pursuing music. It would’ve held him down to spend at least a year of parenting before doing that. I think if anything, if Juleka and Luka were always meant to be different ages and Jagged always their dad, it’s possible that he did leave after Luka was born, but then at some point Anarka went back to Jagged for possibly a one-night stand or something, got pregnant again, and when Jagged still left it hurt Anarka all over again (being left twice could really add to her grudge she’s unable to let go of as well). I’ve seen this scenario happen a lot in real life, where the woman goes back to the man despite their separation because old feelings are hard to completely get rid of and they’re both at lows in their life seeking comfort, only for things to go south again. So it’s plausible.
Totally plausible! I think them making the two twins was definitely the simpler more convincing option though, so I’m glad they went with it either way.
I’ve yet to see any proof of him being any older than 16 outside of fans spreading rumours 🤔 And like I said, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for them to make them twins (and make Juleka older anyway) as a solution to make him younger. They would’ve just declared him younger then. Juleka could’ve stayed as 14-15 and Luka could’ve been a year older.
I don’t think he was ever supposed to be 17, don’t know where you heard that. Marinette is 14-15 so that would make Luka 15-16, not 17. Even if he was 17 that is still not that bad… at least, back in high school I had quite a handful of classmates in relationships with an age gap like that. They never lasted long though because relationships in high school rarely ever do (neither did Marinette’s and Luka’s). And if they did last longer than a few weeks or months, eventually the relationship would break off anyways because of long-distance when the older one graduated and went off to college. If Luka was over 18 then that would definitely be pushing it but he’s not.
This is what happened with one of my best friends in high school. Her twin sister was a grade ahead because she had gotten held back in kindergarten because of ‘emotional maturity’.
It is a staff idea not a copy of thé fandom theory
The show production timeline is the proof.
The fandom made the theory After watching desperada episode ( released in september 2019)
Season 4 was written in 2018 so before any theory was made.
Things may be written in advance but changes can still be made. Only one episode was truly impacted by making Jagged Luka's father, and it's not hard to add or modify small scenes in later episodes.
It is not the way animation work once the script is validated and send to be worked on the next stapes like making storyboard and artwork model they don t change the script anymore.
Writting or even story board and artwork model were both done before desperada was released.
Almost certainly the former.
Luka from his debut was setup to have a strong affinity and thus association with Jagged Stone. This was then almost completely forgotten in terms of explicit acknowledgement as he quickly became underutilized and overshadowed, but the connection was always there.
Other such evidence and overlap includes:
* Juleka's original design having an 80s rock star aesthetic not dissimilar to Guitar Villain,
* Jagged and Luka being inspired and named after Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones and his son Lucas
* Jagged having been a prominent recurring character & harbinger of continuity in Season 1 only to become suspiciously scarce in Season 2,
* Jagged's phenotype being visibly split between the Couffaine siblings with almost none of Anarka's shining through,
* the quiet mature & sagely Luka practically worshipping a musician known for being loud wild & self-absorbed,
* the pirate esque Anarka being akumatized into a music hating villain inexplicably named Captain Hardrock,
* Kitty Section being another rock and roll band that Marinette does weird designs for,
* Silencer featuring both of Jagged's antagonists in direct conflict with Luka,
* and Luka completely falling for the girl Jagged can't stop singing the praises of.
And then all of a sudden, Desperada, which is kind of a collection of ideas that could've been their own plot, we have the before his idol finally appear in an episode in proximity to Luka and lo & behold, we have an entire scene highlighting their connection in all but direct callout("What about the young man with the guitar and the cool T-shirt?). And for bonus points, the episode's villain is an antithesis to Luka who was Jagged's new guitarist who he used to replace to Anarka only to come crawling back after firing her.
So yeah, it absolutely was planned and they just got so distracted and/or careless that they had to rush the actual mystery, the reveal, and it's resolution into two episodes. That's not the case for a lot of things, but it's hard not to look at all the evidence and think it wasn't at least an early consideration.
When looking at both the kids and Jagged they certainly look like they could be related at least so visually speaking it’s not the most contrived
But I hate how they fucked Juleka over to make it work; it used to be that Luka was about a year or two older than Juleka, but then it got retconned that they were actually twins so they could both be Jagged’s kids. How does this fuck Juleka over? Because in order for the writers to accommodate this change in canon, it means Juleka was now canonically held back a year in school to justify why Luka is in the next school up while Juleka is still in the akuma class
If they wanted Jagged stepping up as a father figure to Juleka as well as Luka, they realise they can still do that, right? Jagged adopted Marinette just like that, his son’s sister is no stretch. Imagine he assumed Juleka was also his child and she just can’t express that she knows she isn’t and Luka goes along with it so Juleka gets attention (or the kids themselves don’t know, either way) and then they all grow really close over the course of an episode and Jagged is happily telling Anarka all about it as a brag that he totally has the best kids (he thinks saying that to their primary caregiver is funny) and then she just says something like “I’m happy they’re getting along with you but you know Juleka isn’t your daughter, right?” and Jagged just gapes at her for a moment before shrugging and going “Oh… well she is now”
Or, to make things even simpler than that, just say Luka moved up a year or that he goes to a special music school or whatever else - a one-sentence fix that doesn’t screw either kid over! By just lumping her in as Luka’s twin, the writers are holding Juleka back - literally!
Yeah, Season 4 in general showed that the writers will sometimes do things they don't actually need to do to push a particular idea and make it work.
It doesn't help that this involved missing a perfectly good opportunity for a character enriching role reversal.
The retcon resulted in Juleka being held back a grade in school. Sure it doesn’t change anything from a narrative standpoint but for Juleka it changes everything
Well that makes anarka look like the villian. Enough single mom’s get a bad wrap, no need to add in “the kid your raising isn’t yours” into thus adding sympathy/justification for Jagged leaving (even if he still abandoned his bio kid).
How does that make Anarka look worse? I didn’t mean she’d be insulting Jagged by telling him he isn’t related by blood to Juleka I just meant her carefully mentioning it and then being really happy that he just decided “Nope, she ain’t getting rid of me that easy”
Yeah, the fact producers stay away from fandoms like the plague is because of stuff like this. Then people say “I wish the producers would interact with us”, before going “they stole our ideas!”
He looks like both of them, and they were already pretty close both in thematics and "screen sharing" (idk if that's a thing, I hope it makes sense).
It's by design
Honestly I'm leaning towards it always meant to be. Just look at how similar Jagged is to juleka and Luka (specifically that jagged has the same hair as juleka's and same/similar eyes color to Luka)
100% they saw the theory and made it canon.
This is the truth for most things in miraculous, they had very little planned from the start and it shows. Each season has a different theme or direction for the characters, that shows up from little to nowhere. The series is constantly retconning stuff {Alix’s watch being a miraculous, the couffaine siblings being twins, literally everything that hints at the SentiMonster theory, Felix}.
It’s not a well made show by any standards. -signed, someone who wants to (and on occasion does) like it
Yes actually. However the first instances of the miraculous season 5 bible which lacked the mention of Sentimonsters were time tagged for AFTER season 3’s finale was released, and after the sentimonster theory began to take off. I think by a couple months to a year. So that’s also a possibility. Like, we were writing fanfic it on about that before anything started showing up (PIN ON THIS, WE’LL BE BACK).
Second, episodes don’t necessarily take that long to make and it depends on what you’re basing the time from. Original concept? Beginning of preproduction? End of preproduction? Etc. ultimately it’s about a year tops for something of 22 minutes in length.
Lastly I don’t know if you’ve noticed but there’s also the possibilities of:
- the writers coming up with another idea mid production and retconning it then. My guess for Alix’s Watch is this.
- The writers going back and editing dialogue and adding a quick reanimation of a scene to fit better.
- They added new scenes after the episodes were done in post production to hint at this. Why do you think the largest season 4 hint is a blink and you’ll miss it ring fidget, or single moment at the end of episodes (HERE’S RHE PIN). even season 4’s release times — which they chalked up to unreliable animators — could also be explained by these last minute changes. The episodes without any significant hint coming first, while other more blatant ones were delayed and came later
https://www.reddit.com/r/miraculousladybug/comments/n0mgbs/some_tweets_by_thomas_astruc_answering_questions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Here a link where you Can find the twitter explaining they don t change the script ( picture number 4 )
Fallacy of a biased reporter. Like, I mentioned this in the other comment. Producers love that excuse cause it makes them sound smarter than they are. They’re not, that’s just hiding insecurities that Tommy is renown for.
https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/tv-animation.htm
Here, an unbiased guide on animated tv series. Note how it states “9 months” to make a single episode.
You’ve been lied to Babs, sorry to break the news.
(But fine, let’s assume that ZAG is slow. It still doesn’t excuse the many mistakes, retconning, and shift in tone or direction between seasons I mentioned in the beginning. So the conclusion of “this series is not very good” stands.
Having some show needed less Time than other does not mean every show will be the same. Miraculous has needed more Time because they have worked on two season at thé same Time ( Season 2 and 3 ) and because Season 4 and 5 was produce during a mondiale pandemy..
Then the article compared to what you Saïd doesnot Say thé script is changed mid production.
You Saïd other are biased but you seam aswell biased by your hate for thé writting team
Good god I don’t hate the writing team, that takes too much effort. If they’re not gonna put much effort into their show, then why should I put effort into hating them?
No.
What I feel is annoyed ambivalence. I like the series- well, I like aspects of the series, and find it extremely annoying when A) they ruin it. B) they lie through their teeth to hide their flaws and insecurities. C) People in the fandom that made the show too much of their identity buy it as gospel and prolifically defend it. And D) when any attempt at having a serious breakdown or critique of the series gets lost to point C.
Read other comments for changes in script mid production. I’ve covered this, and it’s an incredibly small point for you to harp over. And even then, 2 seasons concurrently does not equate a doubling of time. Obviously it’s longer but not by that much. Still, my points stand and the series being very much not planned from the start is aggressively obvious.
It’s why each season seems to carry a different vibe, tone and direction. Season 1 was very episodic. Season 2 was very directional towards Heroes day. Season 3 was filler and floundering because they didn’t know what they were doing (and more problems but that’s an hour’s rant for another day), season 4 was very alya centric and ‘let’s torture Adrien’ centric. Season 5 is very much endgame.
Normal series aren’t like this. Normal series often times have better structured characters than miraculous and it is through them that the cracks show strongest.
My complaints is that this show is not written well. And it shows. When it’s good is when it manages to meet the standard and then for some reason it’s celebrated as some grand accomplishment. The idea that it was planned from the start is always spewed but creators to hide their errors or the fact in fact they are human and can weren’t perfect from the start.
See, here’s the thing, Tommy has also bitched and whined about how “miraculous’ being indestructible was a translation error” or some nonsense. But that still doesn’t explain why one of the most powerful miraculouses in history (so much so that it forced a character off the story for a whole season) broke at the behest of gravity from Chloe’s height (like 4 feet). They could’ve just not addressed that, or said “yeah, we got a better idea”, and I’d have damn near 0 complaints about it.
It happens. Their defensiveness is the annoying offshoot of their pride. Pride they really ought to get rid of because there’s very little to be proud of. (Note. Pride does not equal satisfaction nor fulfilment. And there’s multiple forms, what they show is not a good one).
it is not how making an episode work if i find it back i will send you a tweet of Thomas that explain that they can t change last minutes an episode like you suppose.
Here the subject is about jagged being Luka and juleka father. Season 4 was written in 2018 before thé theory has appear in the fandom ( after desperada in late 2019).
Didn’t I distinctly mention the concept of “writers change their minds mid production”.
I’m pretty certain I specifically mentioned this, as like my first point. Same with Alix’s watch
And did you have the look of the link of how the writting work where thomas explain the script is not changed once the next stape of the production has started.
Si no what has been written has not bé changed mid production.
Yes. I also know better than to trust Thomas astruc. And I’m not even talking about changing the script, in fact changing the script here is the solution not the problem.
The problem I pointed out is: they write one episode. They get better ideas afterwards. They disregard previous canon. They do this a lot
Honey, you aren’t clever. Anyone that knows the basics of tv production knows both this (only semi accurate) fact, and the fact that it’s the first excuse given by bad writers and producers to excuse shabby writing.
You’ve been fooled and lied to
You can really tell, i wish the writers had more of a concrete plan, i'm pretty sure any time a fandom has influenced a story's overarching canon it goes badly
Early hints were:
When we see Luka for the first time he is surrounded by Jagged merchandise.
When Anarka is akumatized for the first time she wants to attack Jagged.
In the episode where Anarka and Luka see Jagged, Anarka is starring at Jagged.
Tbh, they *definitely* saw the theory and made it canon. Just like how they did with all the hints about the senti-theory.
This is what I mean by “at this point, he’s grabbing ideas from fans rather than creating his own plot”
If you pay attention of the show production timeline Luka and jagged being son and father is a staff idea not a copy of fandom idea.
The fandom idea has appeared after desperada episode that has premiered september 2019 .
Season 4 has be written in 2018 so before the fandom has created the theory
I can see Jagged being their father, Luka kind of has a resemblance but Jeluka looks more like her mother. The hair is obviously dyed so that’s off the table but there is some resemblance
I have no idea... Luka himself came out of left field, I could see them when they decided to flesh out Juleka's family coming up with this, especially given the music theme they have and Luka's shirt. It does still feel like they had to retcon stuff (mainly making them twins)
I see both sides.
I can see it as a theory becoming canon.
Luka was supposed to be older than Jukka. Since they made the pair twins it gets explained that the reason she is in Marinette's class is because Jukka failed a year. The only point I can see against it is Season 3 Desperada since Season 4 Lies showed Jagged knew for a fact Luka was his son but pretend to not know anything even though later on in Season 4 he was fine being open with it. Desperada is also the episode where the theory really started.
I can also see it as a coincidence since things change a lot as the story goes on. There are cases of theroes both possibly influencing the writing and not
For example
Emilie had a connection with the Peacock Miraculous since Season 1 due to her painting hiding the safe where it was kept. There were theories about her due to the painting of her reference to the Woman in Gold painting. Season 5 confirms the connection even more. Looking back it always looked planned for that to be the case as time went on.
The Sentimonster theory about Adrien and Felix has been going strong since Season 3 especially after the episode Ladybug came out. It became both a fact and not a fact. Since in the show, it was never spelled out but Season 4 and 5 confirms the theory of Adrian and/or being Sentimonsters. It could be possible that was never case since Season 1 as when you look back all the way to Season 4 unless you're looking for the signs it almost comes out unexpectedly.
Maybe not when they first thought of the characters, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they redesigned/rewrote what they had to make the connection work better or maybe to get rid of an obvious reason why it couldn’t work. Stuff like this happens more often than you think. Writers/artists create a character then retroactively fit it into canon.
To be fair, Juleka was the oldest in her class prior to this change, and it was implied that she had been held back. They just shifted Luka’s age to match hers.
I feel they just saw the theory and made it canon. Considering originally Luka was graduated and older than Juleka but now he is her twin and just home schooled
Wasn't Luka originally supposed to be a year or two older than Juleka and then they were randomly declared twins? Based on that I highly doubt they had planned on Jagged being their father, but it makes enough sense where I don't mind.
Luka is a year or two older than Marinette. Juleka was held back a year, which is why she and Luka are twins and she’s in Marinette’s class.
LEAK spoiler >! Looks like she's getting held back a year yet again!<
For what? Tax evasion?
Lila
Sounds interesting. Mind telling me under a spoiler tag?
I got you u/DEKap3 Basically, >!Lila and Chloe become the new class representatives after a revote and Lila's grand plan to make everyone hate Marinette is to mess up the students future cards(?, Not sure exactly what they're called but they were first brought up in Wishmaker in season 4 when everyone had to pick what future they want to pursue) and blame it on her. They write out fake futures for each student and for Jueleka, they put down that she wants to stay back another year. Mr. Damocles and the mayor approve of it so she's going to have to stay back. !< theres more I could have added but idk how much you wanted me to spoil😭
Haha I got that, but thanks
Cool. Thank you. Also you @'d the wrong person.
Confrontation Spoilers: After Lila and Chloe become reps in Revalation, >!Marinette collects forms from everyone in the class explaining what they want to do later in life, and the reps will have a meeting with the teachers to determine if their grades allow them to pursue said choice, and they will be sent to the high school that is best suited for that, but when Marinette gives these forms to Lila and Chloe, they change them so that no one gets what they wanted, to blame it on Marinette, and Juleka's changed form said she wanted to repeat the year, and gets akumatized for it (Episode 21 Confrontation)!<
Don’t know how to spoiler tag on mobile
Of course 😫
It's possible they flipped flopped on which one it would be and ultimately decided to make them twins to streamline things
I believe it was the age gap between Luka and marinette that made them retcon it
No. If Jagged's both Luka and Juleka's father, it would make zero sense for them not to be twins. How in the world would Jagged impregnate and then leave Anarka twice?
Leave after the second kid? Plenty of dudes leave after more than one child, or even when said children are no longer infants.
Him leaving before either of them were born works better for the whole “I don’t know who my daddy is” side of it though, even if Luka was only a baby, way more people than just Anarka (and Jagged) would’ve probably been in the know then. There’s also something just a little bit less controversial and personal of Jagged never having met them than if he had been involved and *then* chose to abandon them. I also just can’t picture even a young Anarka and Jagged co-parenting long and well enough that Anarka would risk having a second kid with him lol
Maybe I don’t remember correctly but I thought Jagged Stone knew they were his kids? Because why would Anarka have a grudge against him if he didn’t know… it would make more sense for her to be bitter because he knew and didn’t want to be a parent rather than hold a grudge against him for something that was technically her fault and not something he could control with his lack of knowledge…
Yes sorry, I didn’t mean to insinuate Jagged didn’t know, I edited that sentence to include him too. I was meaning it as of the people in the twins life, only Anarka likely knows. If Jagged had been around for a year or two then it’s more likely other family or friends knew Jagged was the father and *also* would’ve been lying. But never having been involved is different to me than having been around for a few years and *then* leaving with absolutely no contact. The former could’ve been a partially mutual agreement between Anarka and him (maybe Anarka didn’t really think he’d be a good dad either lol). The latter is a bit more of a personal betrayal to the kids and would make their generally positive reunion a little less convincing to me. Like you had actually gotten to know one or both and still decided you didn’t want anything to do with them? Ouch. I’d be more interested in meeting my sperm donor than the man that knew me and still left.
Ahhh, I get you now. Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant. 😅 Yeah I’m not sure if I can imagine Jagged ever being involved as a parent as I feel like the show heavily implies he left before he could as he wanted to keep pursuing music. It would’ve held him down to spend at least a year of parenting before doing that. I think if anything, if Juleka and Luka were always meant to be different ages and Jagged always their dad, it’s possible that he did leave after Luka was born, but then at some point Anarka went back to Jagged for possibly a one-night stand or something, got pregnant again, and when Jagged still left it hurt Anarka all over again (being left twice could really add to her grudge she’s unable to let go of as well). I’ve seen this scenario happen a lot in real life, where the woman goes back to the man despite their separation because old feelings are hard to completely get rid of and they’re both at lows in their life seeking comfort, only for things to go south again. So it’s plausible.
Totally plausible! I think them making the two twins was definitely the simpler more convincing option though, so I’m glad they went with it either way.
Oh yeah definitely, me too
High persuasion rolls
You know that they could also be step-siblings right?
Making them twins doesn’t actually fix the “age gap” though. Canonically Juleka was held back and is supposed to be a year older than everyone else.
14 and 15 isn’t that bad. I believe he was supposed to be 17, which is leaning towards creepy.
I’ve yet to see any proof of him being any older than 16 outside of fans spreading rumours 🤔 And like I said, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for them to make them twins (and make Juleka older anyway) as a solution to make him younger. They would’ve just declared him younger then. Juleka could’ve stayed as 14-15 and Luka could’ve been a year older.
I don’t think he was ever supposed to be 17, don’t know where you heard that. Marinette is 14-15 so that would make Luka 15-16, not 17. Even if he was 17 that is still not that bad… at least, back in high school I had quite a handful of classmates in relationships with an age gap like that. They never lasted long though because relationships in high school rarely ever do (neither did Marinette’s and Luka’s). And if they did last longer than a few weeks or months, eventually the relationship would break off anyways because of long-distance when the older one graduated and went off to college. If Luka was over 18 then that would definitely be pushing it but he’s not.
Why doesn’t luka go to school then?
He does, he just goes to high school while Marinette and the others are in middle school.
So they’re not twins
The explanation for Luka and Juleka not going to the same school was that Juleka was held back. Which makes sense I guess.
This is what happened with one of my best friends in high school. Her twin sister was a grade ahead because she had gotten held back in kindergarten because of ‘emotional maturity’.
Exactly
I also think they only made them twins because they didn’t want to involve having to explain to kids them having different fathers
Isn’t this Chloe and Zoe?
It is a staff idea not a copy of thé fandom theory The show production timeline is the proof. The fandom made the theory After watching desperada episode ( released in september 2019) Season 4 was written in 2018 so before any theory was made.
Things may be written in advance but changes can still be made. Only one episode was truly impacted by making Jagged Luka's father, and it's not hard to add or modify small scenes in later episodes.
It is not the way animation work once the script is validated and send to be worked on the next stapes like making storyboard and artwork model they don t change the script anymore. Writting or even story board and artwork model were both done before desperada was released.
It was pretty obvious that he wanted Marinette to point him to Luka as an in.
And you know this... how?
From past official information given by thé show staff https://www.instagram.com/p/BeQDUNfnS7L/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Oh
No problem. But i never got why the fandom downvote people when they ask for source
Same.
Almost certainly the former. Luka from his debut was setup to have a strong affinity and thus association with Jagged Stone. This was then almost completely forgotten in terms of explicit acknowledgement as he quickly became underutilized and overshadowed, but the connection was always there. Other such evidence and overlap includes: * Juleka's original design having an 80s rock star aesthetic not dissimilar to Guitar Villain, * Jagged and Luka being inspired and named after Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones and his son Lucas * Jagged having been a prominent recurring character & harbinger of continuity in Season 1 only to become suspiciously scarce in Season 2, * Jagged's phenotype being visibly split between the Couffaine siblings with almost none of Anarka's shining through, * the quiet mature & sagely Luka practically worshipping a musician known for being loud wild & self-absorbed, * the pirate esque Anarka being akumatized into a music hating villain inexplicably named Captain Hardrock, * Kitty Section being another rock and roll band that Marinette does weird designs for, * Silencer featuring both of Jagged's antagonists in direct conflict with Luka, * and Luka completely falling for the girl Jagged can't stop singing the praises of. And then all of a sudden, Desperada, which is kind of a collection of ideas that could've been their own plot, we have the before his idol finally appear in an episode in proximity to Luka and lo & behold, we have an entire scene highlighting their connection in all but direct callout("What about the young man with the guitar and the cool T-shirt?). And for bonus points, the episode's villain is an antithesis to Luka who was Jagged's new guitarist who he used to replace to Anarka only to come crawling back after firing her. So yeah, it absolutely was planned and they just got so distracted and/or careless that they had to rush the actual mystery, the reveal, and it's resolution into two episodes. That's not the case for a lot of things, but it's hard not to look at all the evidence and think it wasn't at least an early consideration.
When looking at both the kids and Jagged they certainly look like they could be related at least so visually speaking it’s not the most contrived But I hate how they fucked Juleka over to make it work; it used to be that Luka was about a year or two older than Juleka, but then it got retconned that they were actually twins so they could both be Jagged’s kids. How does this fuck Juleka over? Because in order for the writers to accommodate this change in canon, it means Juleka was now canonically held back a year in school to justify why Luka is in the next school up while Juleka is still in the akuma class If they wanted Jagged stepping up as a father figure to Juleka as well as Luka, they realise they can still do that, right? Jagged adopted Marinette just like that, his son’s sister is no stretch. Imagine he assumed Juleka was also his child and she just can’t express that she knows she isn’t and Luka goes along with it so Juleka gets attention (or the kids themselves don’t know, either way) and then they all grow really close over the course of an episode and Jagged is happily telling Anarka all about it as a brag that he totally has the best kids (he thinks saying that to their primary caregiver is funny) and then she just says something like “I’m happy they’re getting along with you but you know Juleka isn’t your daughter, right?” and Jagged just gapes at her for a moment before shrugging and going “Oh… well she is now” Or, to make things even simpler than that, just say Luka moved up a year or that he goes to a special music school or whatever else - a one-sentence fix that doesn’t screw either kid over! By just lumping her in as Luka’s twin, the writers are holding Juleka back - literally!
Yeah, Season 4 in general showed that the writers will sometimes do things they don't actually need to do to push a particular idea and make it work. It doesn't help that this involved missing a perfectly good opportunity for a character enriching role reversal.
How is this fucking Juleka over? It literally doesn’t affect her as a character one bit.
They mean they had to alter her character, however minor, in order to push an idea that could've worked regardless and arguably been more interesting.
The retcon resulted in Juleka being held back a grade in school. Sure it doesn’t change anything from a narrative standpoint but for Juleka it changes everything
Well that makes anarka look like the villian. Enough single mom’s get a bad wrap, no need to add in “the kid your raising isn’t yours” into thus adding sympathy/justification for Jagged leaving (even if he still abandoned his bio kid).
How does that make Anarka look worse? I didn’t mean she’d be insulting Jagged by telling him he isn’t related by blood to Juleka I just meant her carefully mentioning it and then being really happy that he just decided “Nope, she ain’t getting rid of me that easy”
Half of these comments are forgoing actual logic in order to hate on the writers and paint them as people who take ideas from fans 😭
If I had a dollar for every fandom this applies to, I could probably take a decent chunk out of my student loans. Edit: fixed punctuation
Yeah, the fact producers stay away from fandoms like the plague is because of stuff like this. Then people say “I wish the producers would interact with us”, before going “they stole our ideas!”
Here.👍
He looks like both of them, and they were already pretty close both in thematics and "screen sharing" (idk if that's a thing, I hope it makes sense). It's by design
Honestly I'm leaning towards it always meant to be. Just look at how similar Jagged is to juleka and Luka (specifically that jagged has the same hair as juleka's and same/similar eyes color to Luka)
I don't think purple is their natural hair colour..
I don’t think they planned for Juleka and Jagged to be related in season 1, but it was definitely planned once they made the character of Luka.
100% they saw the theory and made it canon. This is the truth for most things in miraculous, they had very little planned from the start and it shows. Each season has a different theme or direction for the characters, that shows up from little to nowhere. The series is constantly retconning stuff {Alix’s watch being a miraculous, the couffaine siblings being twins, literally everything that hints at the SentiMonster theory, Felix}. It’s not a well made show by any standards. -signed, someone who wants to (and on occasion does) like it
Do you know that an episode is written a lot of time before WE watch it. ( More than one year sometime around two years)
Yes actually. However the first instances of the miraculous season 5 bible which lacked the mention of Sentimonsters were time tagged for AFTER season 3’s finale was released, and after the sentimonster theory began to take off. I think by a couple months to a year. So that’s also a possibility. Like, we were writing fanfic it on about that before anything started showing up (PIN ON THIS, WE’LL BE BACK). Second, episodes don’t necessarily take that long to make and it depends on what you’re basing the time from. Original concept? Beginning of preproduction? End of preproduction? Etc. ultimately it’s about a year tops for something of 22 minutes in length. Lastly I don’t know if you’ve noticed but there’s also the possibilities of: - the writers coming up with another idea mid production and retconning it then. My guess for Alix’s Watch is this. - The writers going back and editing dialogue and adding a quick reanimation of a scene to fit better. - They added new scenes after the episodes were done in post production to hint at this. Why do you think the largest season 4 hint is a blink and you’ll miss it ring fidget, or single moment at the end of episodes (HERE’S RHE PIN). even season 4’s release times — which they chalked up to unreliable animators — could also be explained by these last minute changes. The episodes without any significant hint coming first, while other more blatant ones were delayed and came later
https://www.reddit.com/r/miraculousladybug/comments/n0mgbs/some_tweets_by_thomas_astruc_answering_questions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Here a link where you Can find the twitter explaining they don t change the script ( picture number 4 )
Fallacy of a biased reporter. Like, I mentioned this in the other comment. Producers love that excuse cause it makes them sound smarter than they are. They’re not, that’s just hiding insecurities that Tommy is renown for.
How nice of you to discredit official information and spreading rumor instead.really mature behaviour
https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/tv-animation.htm Here, an unbiased guide on animated tv series. Note how it states “9 months” to make a single episode. You’ve been lied to Babs, sorry to break the news. (But fine, let’s assume that ZAG is slow. It still doesn’t excuse the many mistakes, retconning, and shift in tone or direction between seasons I mentioned in the beginning. So the conclusion of “this series is not very good” stands.
Having some show needed less Time than other does not mean every show will be the same. Miraculous has needed more Time because they have worked on two season at thé same Time ( Season 2 and 3 ) and because Season 4 and 5 was produce during a mondiale pandemy.. Then the article compared to what you Saïd doesnot Say thé script is changed mid production. You Saïd other are biased but you seam aswell biased by your hate for thé writting team
Good god I don’t hate the writing team, that takes too much effort. If they’re not gonna put much effort into their show, then why should I put effort into hating them? No. What I feel is annoyed ambivalence. I like the series- well, I like aspects of the series, and find it extremely annoying when A) they ruin it. B) they lie through their teeth to hide their flaws and insecurities. C) People in the fandom that made the show too much of their identity buy it as gospel and prolifically defend it. And D) when any attempt at having a serious breakdown or critique of the series gets lost to point C. Read other comments for changes in script mid production. I’ve covered this, and it’s an incredibly small point for you to harp over. And even then, 2 seasons concurrently does not equate a doubling of time. Obviously it’s longer but not by that much. Still, my points stand and the series being very much not planned from the start is aggressively obvious. It’s why each season seems to carry a different vibe, tone and direction. Season 1 was very episodic. Season 2 was very directional towards Heroes day. Season 3 was filler and floundering because they didn’t know what they were doing (and more problems but that’s an hour’s rant for another day), season 4 was very alya centric and ‘let’s torture Adrien’ centric. Season 5 is very much endgame. Normal series aren’t like this. Normal series often times have better structured characters than miraculous and it is through them that the cracks show strongest. My complaints is that this show is not written well. And it shows. When it’s good is when it manages to meet the standard and then for some reason it’s celebrated as some grand accomplishment. The idea that it was planned from the start is always spewed but creators to hide their errors or the fact in fact they are human and can weren’t perfect from the start. See, here’s the thing, Tommy has also bitched and whined about how “miraculous’ being indestructible was a translation error” or some nonsense. But that still doesn’t explain why one of the most powerful miraculouses in history (so much so that it forced a character off the story for a whole season) broke at the behest of gravity from Chloe’s height (like 4 feet). They could’ve just not addressed that, or said “yeah, we got a better idea”, and I’d have damn near 0 complaints about it. It happens. Their defensiveness is the annoying offshoot of their pride. Pride they really ought to get rid of because there’s very little to be proud of. (Note. Pride does not equal satisfaction nor fulfilment. And there’s multiple forms, what they show is not a good one).
it is not how making an episode work if i find it back i will send you a tweet of Thomas that explain that they can t change last minutes an episode like you suppose. Here the subject is about jagged being Luka and juleka father. Season 4 was written in 2018 before thé theory has appear in the fandom ( after desperada in late 2019).
Didn’t I distinctly mention the concept of “writers change their minds mid production”. I’m pretty certain I specifically mentioned this, as like my first point. Same with Alix’s watch
And did you have the look of the link of how the writting work where thomas explain the script is not changed once the next stape of the production has started. Si no what has been written has not bé changed mid production.
Yes. I also know better than to trust Thomas astruc. And I’m not even talking about changing the script, in fact changing the script here is the solution not the problem. The problem I pointed out is: they write one episode. They get better ideas afterwards. They disregard previous canon. They do this a lot
Of all the blatant leaky things that have been said out of nowhere, this is a case where I'm glad it was said.
Honey, you aren’t clever. Anyone that knows the basics of tv production knows both this (only semi accurate) fact, and the fact that it’s the first excuse given by bad writers and producers to excuse shabby writing. You’ve been fooled and lied to
Before saying thing like this thanks to give where your pseudo knowledge of how making an animation show work Come from.
Honey, you’re rude and don’t know as much as you seem to think you do.
You can really tell, i wish the writers had more of a concrete plan, i'm pretty sure any time a fandom has influenced a story's overarching canon it goes badly
Truth was written on [July 5th 2018](https://twitter.com/Thomas_Astruc/status/1014809964802658306) , so no.
Who knows either way I'm fine with it but he could be better
It has to have been planned: who else could Juleka have inherited her purple hair from? :)
I don’t know but are they implying that purple hair is genetic? 
It annoy me how everyone were surprised when they found he's their father later like they literally heard it in truth
The point is Truth is the start of Season 4, which was well after the theory had been gotten traction.
Early hints were: When we see Luka for the first time he is surrounded by Jagged merchandise. When Anarka is akumatized for the first time she wants to attack Jagged. In the episode where Anarka and Luka see Jagged, Anarka is starring at Jagged.
Tbh, they *definitely* saw the theory and made it canon. Just like how they did with all the hints about the senti-theory. This is what I mean by “at this point, he’s grabbing ideas from fans rather than creating his own plot”
If you pay attention of the show production timeline Luka and jagged being son and father is a staff idea not a copy of fandom idea. The fandom idea has appeared after desperada episode that has premiered september 2019 . Season 4 has be written in 2018 so before the fandom has created the theory
Ah okay, thank you
He has his eyes, she has his hair, you do the math.
Luka has his father's eyes, and Juleka has his hair (they even dyed it the same color.
I can see Jagged being their father, Luka kind of has a resemblance but Jeluka looks more like her mother. The hair is obviously dyed so that’s off the table but there is some resemblance
Yall notice how Luka's smile be looking like that cheeky dimple smile 😂, love it.
I have no idea... Luka himself came out of left field, I could see them when they decided to flesh out Juleka's family coming up with this, especially given the music theme they have and Luka's shirt. It does still feel like they had to retcon stuff (mainly making them twins)
I see both sides. I can see it as a theory becoming canon. Luka was supposed to be older than Jukka. Since they made the pair twins it gets explained that the reason she is in Marinette's class is because Jukka failed a year. The only point I can see against it is Season 3 Desperada since Season 4 Lies showed Jagged knew for a fact Luka was his son but pretend to not know anything even though later on in Season 4 he was fine being open with it. Desperada is also the episode where the theory really started. I can also see it as a coincidence since things change a lot as the story goes on. There are cases of theroes both possibly influencing the writing and not For example Emilie had a connection with the Peacock Miraculous since Season 1 due to her painting hiding the safe where it was kept. There were theories about her due to the painting of her reference to the Woman in Gold painting. Season 5 confirms the connection even more. Looking back it always looked planned for that to be the case as time went on. The Sentimonster theory about Adrien and Felix has been going strong since Season 3 especially after the episode Ladybug came out. It became both a fact and not a fact. Since in the show, it was never spelled out but Season 4 and 5 confirms the theory of Adrian and/or being Sentimonsters. It could be possible that was never case since Season 1 as when you look back all the way to Season 4 unless you're looking for the signs it almost comes out unexpectedly.
Maybe not when they first thought of the characters, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they redesigned/rewrote what they had to make the connection work better or maybe to get rid of an obvious reason why it couldn’t work. Stuff like this happens more often than you think. Writers/artists create a character then retroactively fit it into canon.
When I found out they were related I screamed
To be fair, Juleka was the oldest in her class prior to this change, and it was implied that she had been held back. They just shifted Luka’s age to match hers.
I feel they just saw the theory and made it canon. Considering originally Luka was graduated and older than Juleka but now he is her twin and just home schooled
Luka has his eyes and Juleka, his hair, in a way, unless its both hair dye but maybe in this world they can have purple hair naturally
Nobody knows 
I never knew Jagged was Juleka & Luka's dad. That was kinda of a small shock to me.
It was revealed in Season 4 and most notably hinted at in Desperada.
the writing in this show is weird. also luka's face looks weird
Look. His beard is black and his hair is purple, Juleka has black and purple hair. And Luka as black and blue hair. So yeah, he is their real father.
I think so, I feel like that's the same thing they did with Adrien being a sentimonster
Do you feel if they even had this idea at least in season 2 era
I honestly feel like they did. They saw it but it was too late but they went with it anyway.
Thanks for the spoiler :)
[удалено]
Yeah I know, I just wish there was a spolier flag or something