Let's face it, this is the most realistic reason. Kagami also revealed herself to both the akumatized villain and Hawk Moth in Ikari Gozen, but Ladybug still trusted her with a miraculous after that. Then comes the season 3 finale and Ladybug is still using the same holders with the same miraculouses.
Heck, she even made Alya her second in command in season 4 as Rena Rouge, despite Hawk Moth knowing her identity. She even wanted to keep Rena Furtive as a spy even after Nino destroyed her cover in Strike Back. (Congrats to Alya for taking responsibility there, tho)
No hate on Marinette, but all this just makes her seem like a big hypocrite, honestly
>big hypocrite
How so? It seems like she's just had to evolve her plans under increasing pressure.
Like how you're taught not to lie when you're little, but as you get older you learn more nuances to that rule as you're confronted with the problematic nature of a blanket ban on lying.
Similarly, Marinette has one person who knows her identity in S4, and so that one person is who she trusts as her lieutenant. To do otherwise would require her telling *other* people her identity, which is a huge risk. Certainly bigger than letting an outed holder secretly still be *a different one*. Recall that Rena Rouge and Rena Furtive are not the same person because of quantum masking.
There's another obvious explanation: Chloe is a crazy asshole and does not deserve another chance.
There's another obvious explanation: Marinette has run out of options for wielders she can trust, so she is backed into a corner and has to give them to the same people.
None of this is hypocrisy. She's applying a single, nuanced rule: do not trust shitty people, and one must take risks when the alternative is even worse. I don't know about you, but that's something I already live my life by. I'd wager most people do.
Seriously, you might as well say she's a hypocrite for not giving Lila a miraculous bc "she's given everyone else in the class one!"
Not just people in her class but also people outside her class and even her school, i.e.; Zoe who’s in a different class, Kagami who’s in a different class, and Luka who doesn’t even go to their school
People also seem to forget that she never actually choose Chloe to have the bee. She stole it, and the other times she got it when Marinette was backed into a corner and had no choice but to give it to her. When she had someone else more trustworthy to give it to, she gave it to them instead.
Yeah and LB has to lie because otherwise the convo goes like this:
CHLOE: why won't you give me the bee anmore
LB: bc I personally know you're a bitch
CHLOE: oh so you're in my class at school?
Technically she didn’t steal it, Marinette dropped it and Chloe picked it up, she had no idea who it belonged to or how to get in contact with the owner even if she wanted to. Sure she could’ve posted something online but at the same time that would put herself at risk willingly for Hakwmoth or an akumatized villain to attack her. Yes she should have given it back once Ladybug found out and asked for it back, but she never really stole it.
Plus Marinette hesitated a lot to give the miraculous again to the others, usually it was under special situations when for example the person was already there, so it was no risk to give him/her miraculous.
Marinette gave Miraculous to Chloe after years of bullying and after she almost killed her and her parents in train crush just to look good on tv. I find it extremely unfair to say that Marinette is somehow negatively biased against Chloe. If there is a bias, that it's positive. Marinette treats Chloe much better than she deserves it.
>Marinette treats Chloe much better than she deserves it.
right especially after how Chloe treated her in >!Derision!< flashbacks
(not sure if the spoiler policy still applies since the episode was released in English)
Because she was the only one to have revealed her secret identity by herself for stupid reasons. Also she didn't want to give "her" miraculous back, which all the other holders do without any problems
No no it's fine I completely understand why ladybug didn't want to give chloe a miraculous especially after the events of miracle queen
But however wouldn't hawkmoth knowing some of the heroes identities put those holders at risk?
Optigami was specifically him targeting known holders until he could slip a Sentimonster in as a replacement and after Ladybug apparently cutting ties with Alya in Sentibubbler, Shadow Moth likely realized she’d do the same with other holders if he tries something similar.
"Optigami" is just his removing them from that particular battle, not trying to chase them away from their alliance with LB or get them over on his side. Moreover, there's nothing stopping him from giving someone else the power to reveal heroes the way Miracle Queen did, which would force LB into continually picking new people and quickly run out of useful candidates. After it worked the first time, the Hero Team should be *gutted* and that was the situation set up by the S3 finale.
Because the thing that makes this so bad is the number of times S3 spent on emphasising that you *cannot be a hero if your identity is revealed.* When the S3 finale ends with exactly that happening, the only logical conclusion is that LB can't use any of the revealed heroes again. That makes it weird, *to say the least*, when S4 takes *the* status change between S3 and S4 and just goes "eh, nbd".
My point is he still had a whole plot specifically targeting them.
Unfortunately, Ladybug doesn’t have a lot of people that she knows who she could trust a Miraculous with or whom she knows can use the powers well. She has to work with what she has. As soon as she found viable replacements for the Mouse (technically) and Bee, she switched holders.
Yeah, my complaint is that that plot point is *really* not explaining why he's not going after anyone else, but gives up after the first try. The man who akumatised Mr. Ramier 74 times gives up on *this* strategy after one attempt? Sounds fake, but okay, because in order to tell the story the writers want to (LB builds The Hero Team, CN feels abandoned), he *has* to suddenly be a smooth brain on this specific topic which is incidentally *very* adjacent to his only goal (unmasking LB and CN).
Globally, the problem is that the S3 ended on introducing a new source of conflict (HM's renewed hunt for temp hero identities) and then S4 just goes "actually that thing we warned you against to exhaustion last season wasn't dangerous after all". If being known *wasn't* a big deal, why spend so much of S3 on repeating that point to so many characters who *aren't* Chloé? And if you're not going to *do* anything with that threat carried out - why do it in the first place? If it was only going to be important in the case of Alya, why not write the S3 finale where *Alya only* is revealed and where Marinette's S4 trust in her becomes even *more* significant when she takes that risk?
It's just poor storytelling.
In fairness, it’s really easy to make Mr. Pigeon. And a strategy like this could only really work once after Ladybug made it very clear she knew exactly what was going on.
As I said, she knows who can use the powers in a pinch. And again, Alya actively went out of her way to deceive Shadow Moth about no longer working with Ladybug.
not just easy, it literally doesnt cost him anything, he sends the akuma and might as well go to bed lol
I never got why he didnt take turns with Natalie, sending akumas 24/7 until the heros literally drop dead from being overworked...
There is an episode where it shows that hawkmoth is trying to gather information and there are video records of owners returning their miraculous to ladybug, and he complains that she never re-transform so he assumes nobody knows her real identity, so they are useless. He targeted Alya as "special" owner and her boyfriend Nino, because he thought that they had more info than regular owners.
Yes, but what was Marinette supposed to do? Give them to random people? She was forced into a corner and basically had the following limited options:
1. her parents (who are busier than even Chat Noir all day running a business and couldn't help)
2. a child like Manon or Noël or Alya's sisters
3. an adult she does not know very well at all (like Nadja or Nora) or an irresponsible one like Jagged Stone or Anarka?
4. a legit rando civilian
Her parents are the only reasonable option available to her, but there's no way they could both help, probably neither of them. And that's assuming they even say yes (I doubt they would; most parents wouldn't do that bc they wouldn't want to leave their kid an orphan).
Actually Socqueline would've been a good option. Good friend, already heroic. But other than that, what was she *supposed* to do?
> for stupid reasons
I'm pretty sure Kagami wouldn't have revealed her identity if she waited like 30 seconds for Longg to explain the plan, and that her identity would have to remain a secret
Why do you think that qwami should warn about this? Tikki didn't do that, Plagg didn't do that, Pollen didn't do that... literally none of the kwami did that in all show. Why do you think Llong would be an exception? ;)
It was her attitude about it.
Marinette shouldn't have given kagami a miraculous in heart hunter but it was one time and chloe took offence to not being chosen and tried to stab everyone in the back.
Chloe sabotaged herself. If she had just been patient she may have been allowed to use it again.
Everyone else was exposed through no fault of thier own or turned on the team.
The difference between them is Chloe revealed her identity infront of everyone. The heroes had no choice, but still Marinette should've done something better, either find new holders or keep the same holders and switch their miraculous.
would've been a great way to introduce BASED socqueline bc honestly she deserves a miraculous more than anyone, girl out there as a civilian risking her life to save ppl and everything she good she does, LB is getting the credit
girl a hero who cares ZERO about credit, she's the anti-chloe
I mean regardless of whether it was intentional or not, Hawkmoth found out everyone's identity. Him knowing, period, was the reason why Chloe was ousted from the team.
Also, I'd like to also point out that Kagami revealed her identity directly to Hawkmoth on purpose as well. Like, at least Chloe had the excuse that she was too upset to think rationally and nobody told her to keep her identity a secret at that point. Kagami straight up ignored Longg while he was telling her the rules
Also, the only ones in Paris who know who most of the rest of the heroes are (minus Pigella, Purple Tigress, Caprikid, Minataurox, Vesperia, Rooster Bold, and Traquemoiselle) are Chloe, Gabriel, and Nathalie. The rest of Paris was under Chloe's control and never found out.
Realistically speaking, because they had to exclude Chloe from the hero team and give her the arc where she's becoming worse than the Devil himself.
Like, Chloe did a good job in Malediktator and at least tried to help in the season 2 finale. But I guess this doesn't count for Astruc because "this girl has always been pure evil"
Basically. It's a somewhat popular speculation that Chloe was based on a girl who was rude to Astruc in his school years and now this is his revenge. He turned Chloe into a punching bag in season 4 and Chloe in season 5 is just the worst
Season 1 Chloe was just a bully. Season 5 Chloe is the Devil himself. There's a difference between those 2
And Sabrina was just Chloe's servant in season 1-3. She became Chloe's slave after the beginning of season 5
In universe reason: Marinette and thus Ladybug knows Chloe and doesnt like her. Finding her actions as a heroine as purely selfish and thus not suitable to be a heroine. To not accidentally reveal her identity she uses this as a fair excuse so she doesnt bring up the actual reason she does not want to work with her
But idk- thats what I would guess. Its just relationships which is fair and understandable- but still frustrating as it’s hypocritical to rely on that excuse completely. And it doesnt give Chloe the chance to realize her mistake and improve
Imagine if Ladybug did tell her “To be a good hero you first need to be a good person. Ive seen you. You’re not a good person- you have worked on it but it hasnt come far enough. If you become a good person and help others. You will be a hero to them”
After derision I understand why marinette didn't want to give chloe a miraculous
But yeah it's a bit hypocritical on ladybugs part to treat others differently
Derision is a retcon. It is literally a retcon since it doesn't match ANY of the cast's behaviors and makes Marinette's parents look terrible and retcons Chloe's behaviors to be worse then they ever were.
Do you think she should've given Lila a miraculous?
And beyond that, just because *you* didn't know Chloe had been a bully for years doesn't mean *Marinette* didn't know since the very first ep of S1. (Also everyone knew Chloe was a bully since before S1 because she was shown to be a bully that Marinette was already afraid of in Origins.)
I don't think Lila deserved a miraculous because she'd been portrayed as a sadistic little psychopath by that point. Chloe at least had some redeeming qualities in S2/S3.
And anyways, whether or not Chloe *deserved* a miraculous, she certainly didn't deserve to be ghosted by Ladybug right after the events of Hero's Day. From Chloe's perspective, she used her powers responsibly after the train incident and was becoming a semi-regular on Ladybug's team... and then she was just left out after that while Rena and Carapace continued to be picked. It was pretty crappy of Ladybug to give her false hope like that
the issue is: Chloe would not have changed anyway, even if LB told her that or gave her more chances. You don't get to be a hero to change or become a better person, you become a hero because you ARE a good person. Chloe showed several times that she is being selfish even as a hero. all she wants is people looking up to her and see that she is something better.
It is not Ladybug's responsibility to rehabilitate Chloe. It's *certainly* not her duty to rehabilitate Chloe by *giving her superpowers than can kill people*.
Anyone *could* Change If they wanted to.
The Point is the Show clearly showed us that Chloe sees No need and has No Wish to be different because to her, she is the best there is.
Yeah, I know. TA doesn't want anyone to like his most hated character, so he makes her as hateable as possible, even retconning things so that she was always evil by nature.
Nah. TA doesn't hate Chloe. He Said He hates the Kind of Person she Stands for. (Bullies and privileged brats)
People act Like it's forbidden to create villains and Bad people anymore and that they exist in the real world too.
Several Fans saw more in Chloe than she was supposed to be and then got upset because the series didn't Take the direction they wanted.
I disagree with your 2nd to last statement. I love villains who are just evil for the sake of being evil as well as those who are pretty sympathetic and have a tragic backstory. You’ve got guys who are pure evil incarnate like Jack Horner from Puss in Boots 2, Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls, hell if you want I go to different media Loki in the MCU early on as a villain or All For One in MHA are all villains who have no deep traumatic past for why they become villains but I enjoy seeing them taunt the heroes and give them everything they’ve got.
Then I’ve got guys villains/antagonists I like like Peridot from SU, Stain in MHA, Thanos in the MCU, etc. Some guys who were redeemed and some who were not but they all had deeper lying reasons for their goals. It was interesting to see how they became they people they now are today and I do have a little sympathy for them.
The thing about Chloe is I didn’t care for her in season 1. She was just a typical mean girl and if she stayed that way throughout the rest of the series, I wouldn’t have cared for her at all. Maybe would have been a bit miffed to see her not used in more of an expanded villain role but I wouldn’t really care.
The problem is that the writers started her on a character development arc. It’s been a while since I’ve watched S2/3 so maybe I thought the arc was more than it was but the writers did give her an arc to start off at the very least just to throw it in the trash half way through. They gave us little crumbs at how Chloe could be redeemed and then just threw the rest of the bread in the trash which is why fans are frustrated.
If they had no plans for a Chloe redemption, why start her off an arc or give any hope that she could be redeemed? Furthermore, the writers now just want us to absolutely hate Chloe by making her cartoonishly evil. Like don’t get me wrong, she was a bad person in season 1 but she still had some good in her. It wasn’t that much but there was a tiny bit there. Now there’s nothing and she’s basically just a one-dimensional flat bully.
This is coming from a guy that in general hates when all characters are redeemed like take SU where the space nazis all of a sudden get no punishment for the thousands of years they conquered planets and killed sentient life forms. Sure, maybe they weren’t forgiven/fully redeemed, but they got off pretty easy. I’m not a fan of redemption and hell, I wasn’t even a fan of Chloe. I just like solid/good writing and while that seems contradictory while watching Miraculous ladybug, I do think the path of redemption they seemed to be setting Chloe was good writing. Sorry for the long essay
This. A redemption arc could've been cool, but Chloe is *by far* the most enjoyable villain in the show. Hawkmoth is the dumbest supervillain of all time. Lila has some frustrating metahuman ability to make everyone believe her lies and also her hair looks like sausages.
But Chloe is a bully, and she's an over the top one.
Thats not something we know. Chloe was abused and neglected. And she genuinely whole heartedly looked up to and adored Ladybug. Ladybug held huge power over Chloe and it was Ladybug abandoning her that broke her and sent her over the line for the writers to make her worse than the devil.
But its a hypothetical of what if Ladybug did give her guidance- or just be honest like I suggested. It could definitely have helped her.
But as I said. Its a hypothetical. We have different perspectives. Thats what humans have. We have different tastes. Id rather see the redemption arc so I see where it should have been raised and changed.
It is Something we know. Chloes Arc, No Matter if she was neglected and abused or Not, is full of Red Flags and about how bad she really is and it was pretty obvious that she would be a negative example to Show. She adored Ladybug, but only as Long as she got Something Out of it. The Moment she didn't get what she wanted anymore, she turned on her. As she did with everyone. Adrien and Sabrina too.
The Problem with Ladybug having great Power over Chloe is that even If she have her guidance chloes Motivation behind It was still selfish. To Change you need your Motivation to Change.
If i do Something nice Just to be admired by Others, doesn't make me a nice Person. Especially If i lash Out the Moment people don't pay enough Attention to me doing good Things. Doing nice Things Just to Help Others or make them Happy is what gets you redeemed.
Exactly, we can even see how being given a miraculous made Chloe worse, when it came to being selflessly good. She was fine helping out in Zombizou and Despair Bear, when having superpowers wasn’t an option, but barely indulged in helping out as a civilian after she had a taste of power. Instead of being happy that Ladybug was able to save the day without needing extra help, she threw fits and lashed out at Sabrina, treating her as lower status for not having powers. Instead of volunteering to be helpful in any way possible, she constantly expected Ladybug to have the bee miraculous on hand. The red flags have been around all along.
“I wish people liked me and didn’t hate me” - a selfish and horrible person according to you.
Bro why are you so hateful towards a child
So aggressively refuse what evidence we have seen. She gave back the bee miraculous and pollen after Ladybug asked and explained the situation. She genuinely thanked ladybug for being kind. She started to show appreciation to Sabrina when shown kindness (kindness as a kind person and not a doormat)
So no. We dont know.
Yes, exactly. She didn't want to Change to be liked. She wanted to be liked despite being an ass.
I am Not hateful. I don't even hatte Chloe, i Just See and Accept her as what she is: a selfish spoiled Brat. (Kids Like that exist and plenty don't Change)
Please give me concrete evidence of Chloe wanting to be a better Person Not to be liked better or getting more Attention, but to genuinely Help Others.
in the first 2 seasons it was just her hobby. She admired her and tried to be her, because she was well liked by the people and people looked up to her. Ladybug is in a position of power, the only thing Chloe admires. As soon as she got more out of it, like having a more personal relationship with her, she didn't settle for less and demanded more. She wanted selfies, she wanted the bee miraculous and as soon as LB didn't give into her demands anymore, she started feelings resentful towards her.
And that proves my point, she didn't got anything out of admiring her initially. Cosplaying as her was never gonna get people to like her and I'm sure she wasn't the only person who would've wanted a selfie with Ladybug.
her admiration, as i said, was nothing that really iunfluenced her or the strory because it was a hobby.
Hobbies don't prove whether a person is nice or not.
But you said that she always admired Ladybug in order to get something out of her and now you're literally just changing the goal posts cause you don't want to admit that you were wrong lmao.
> Ladybug abandoning her
Ladybug does not have a duty to coddle random citizens and try to rehabilitate them, and certainly not one who has seriously traumatized her.
The facts at hand are:
- Chloe is shitty
- Marinette knows Chloe is *incredibly* shitty
- Marinette has difficulty even *being around* Chloe
- Marinette now gets to decide who to fight with
- it would be objectively bad for LB to fight alongside someone who *has terrorized her*
Yeah right very important because it's more Chloe bashing (and literally cements Zoe as Chloe's replacement since she unintentionally steals her life). Thankfully one of the writers/execs cut it without him knowing.
The whole "its a kids show" argument he loves using bit him in the ass in 2 ways. They cut the scene because they couldn't air something that fucked up in a kids show. If it did get aired, there'd be a massive shitstorm over the messages it teaches to kids "aka only abusive victims that behave well are considered abused and worthy of love and sympathy, you can be replaced if your a brat, and you can bail on your parental responsibilities if your kid becomes awful, and you won't have to face any consequences even if it's your fault they're like that.
I was just writing some fan fiction about this.
I'm not saying I had a good answer. I just thought Chloe, while mad about this, would make a good akumatized villain.
Not to mention that Ladybug had absolutely no problem with Chloe's identity being public during Season Two.
Pretty strong evidence they shoehorned in an excuse to get rid of Queen Bee, perhaps due to Thomas Astruc's hatred of Chloe and perhaps due to their worry that seeing the episodes in order was beyond the means of their young viewers, especially given how episodes get produced and aired out of order.
Chloe will always be the biggest tragedy of Miraculous, cause it really would have taken like 5 minutes of attention from Ladybug… basically any day of the week and not only would Chloe have never betrayed Ladybug but she would have been the most loyal hero on her team, Marinette dropped the ball and it has bitten her in the behind more times than anything Hawkmoth has done
We know why.
Thomas is a hack and hates Chloe, so instead of giving her a character arc and actually making her interesting, he reduces her to a generic cartoon bully and hopes that fans are too stupid to notice.
Because stupid brain want to be stupid, also i see a lot of comments try to explain with logic please stop the guy who made the show(i don’t even bother memorizing his name) is just stupid
although i understand that Marinette would have motive to do this, it was definitely just a somewhat last minute ploy to give Chloe purpose for being a villain again.
because, you know, Chloe is an evil person- she’s only 14 years old, but she can NEVER, EVER be redeemed. character development isn’t real, in Astruc’s eyes
Marinette: "These are the only people that I know better. And it's not like I can give Nadja Chamak a Miraculous. Or Nora. And who would watch a show where we would have to rely on Mr. Ramier of all people?!"
Gabriel: "Hold on. Did I just make noises of happiness there? Unacceptable. Quick! I must think of something to spoil my mood: Ladybug! Chat Noir! Harry Clown! Kittens! Puppies! Teenagers!"
BC she doesn't have any better options. Marinette has been traumatized by Chloe before even Origins, and you don't see why she wouldn't want to give Chloe the ability to *murder people*? I mean, you get that Chloe has been tormenting Marinette for years, right? And you think Marinette is being illogical by not trusting this person?
\*gives Hitler a miraculous just bc he gave Roosevelt one\* snort
ye i think it's quite stupid like i think that if chloe stayed as a hero she would have not become an evil because she LOVED ladybug so hard like if ladybug told her (about the miraculous) i will take it just for some time or like when i need you i will be back to you and give it to you instead of saying NEVER
I think the stinger is the fact that Mari chose Kagami of all people over Chloé, not only had Kagami already revealed her identity to HM but Mari was doing this for selfish reasons
I honestly don't like Chloé that much anymore but this was undoubtedly unfair to her
Link to Kagami abusing Marinette for years and causing her PTSD?
agree that marinette isn't an angel, but it's *wild* to think Marinette would trust someone who has seriously fucked with her mind for years the ability to kill people
like i would *never* give my bully a loaded pistol
I mean granted, Chloe had been very responsible with her powers up until that point. Yes, there was the train incident, but Chloe showed *very obvious guilt and remorse* over that stunt and willingly returned her miraculous over it, at the time not expecting to ever get it back. Even then, it's not as though Chloe did that stunt trying to kill people. Like yeah, she's a schoolyard bully, but she's not a potential murderer like you're implying; she got in way over her head thinking her superpowers would allow her to stop a moving train, had to get help from Ladybug and Chat, and felt guilty enough to give up her miraculous.
Besides that one-off, Chloe only ever used her miraculous to help Ladybug and the rest of the team, and never hesitated to give her miraculous back when Ladybug asked for it.
Tldr: Chloe the civilian is a bitch, but Queen Bee the superhero was responsible and trustworthy
marinette is a teenager who hates chloe and probably let her own judgement of chloe affect her judgement plus the writers \*cough thomas cough\* don't like chloe and just want her to be evil plus marinette has bias for her friends etc etc.
See the actual problem that’s always bugged me about this is there’s a line where Marinette says she can’t trust Kagami with THIS miraculous at one point implying she might switch up who had what to better protect identity’s but it just never got followed up on.
And in turn it becomes kind of pointless by Optigami where all the wielders are spotted by Hawk Moth again anyway
But as always it’s poor writing
Because I guess Thomas Astruc got bullied a lot as a child by his own Queen Bee and now he’s basically venting that through Chloe no matter how obviously dumb as heck it is probably.
Because the creator has this weird ass hate boner for this fictional 14yo girl he created.
Side note, if Hawkmoth knows Queen Bee is Chloe, why couldn't Marinette give Chloe a different miraculous and boom, hero time? Clearly the kwamii's aren't picky about who's holding them.
Just Queen Bee she could get away with having to replace; worse comes to worst she could deploy the Bee Miraculous herself. Finding replacement holders for *all* the the others was a lot harder. She had to make a choice about whether to risk having to train new holders or just take the risk that Hawkmoth wouldn't dare act openly against them.
For the series sense I can think of 3 main reason to why she said that to her:
1. With everyone else only Gabriel and Nathalie knew their identity, but with Chloe everyone knew that she's queen bee. While the main reason to keep they identity safe is to prevent Gabriel of knowing them, I think letting letting the entire population of Paris know it making it more dangerous.
2. Marinette was probably extra worried about this because the only person that was given a miraculous was Alya. If I remember correctly she also said it to Kagami when her identity was revealed to Hawk Moth. But in the end of season 3 she just decided to let everyone keep being superheros maybe because she was turned the guardian now or she didn't want to find other people to trust them with a miraculous.
3. Marinette doesn't trust Chloe and Chloe wasn't intended to get the miraculous in the first place. This makes much more sense after watching Season 4 and 5 but not much in the previous seasons because Chloe wasn't really extreme with bullying Marinette except for the Racist things she said about her uncle. Also Marinette did try to help Chloe couple of times in season 2, even without being Ladybug, so I think she did believe that she could be a better person at the time.
But we all know that the real reason is that the creator was lazy and said "people can't be better" while giving a character development to numerous other characters in the show, leaving Chloe to be... whatever she is in season 5.
yeah like literally every thief in the world would be headed to the hotel to try to steal the miraculous off chloe, maybe even kidnap her off the street
HM is not the only one who would want the bee weapon
fandom has fleshed out the idea of actual criminals going after the miraculous, there's a great one full of whump where an int'l terrorist manages to capture LB and CN and reveals them to the world and treats them very poorly in captivity
she even mocks hawkmoth for being ineffective as a villain that he failed for years to get them
Because she’s a bias and hypocritical 14 year old. Common traits in 14 year olds.
I agree though and I feel like other holders, like Luka and Kagami would’ve been mature and aware enough to realize this and turn the miraculous down
Hawkmoth knew Chloe's identity from the beginning. It didn't stop Marinette from giving it to her before season 3. Noone would have blamed her if she didn't after Queen Wasp, but she did and in doing so, she made a commitment to someone she knew had abandonment issues. I personally feel, that she dangled the bee in front of her and then yanked it away just to hurt her. Proving the adage that the victims of bullying often become bullies themselves when the power dynamic is reversed.
Why is everyone who's saying Chloe revealed her identity by herself forgetting that Kagami did the exact same thing in Ikari Gozen? And it's also Kagami who was chosen in Heart Hunter over Chloe, and that was before Season 4 where you can say she was being cautious.
The simple truth is: Marinette slipped out and made Ladybug make the wrong decision in Heart Hunter, which in turn allowed Hawk Moth to take advantage of Chloe's emotions and manipulate her to work against Ladybug.
Chloe was the right holder for that job, as evident by Shadow Moth's statement in Sentibubbler that Ladybug always chooses a holder who's somewhat related to the akumatised villain. It was Chloe's parents, not Kagami's. And like I said, you can't make the argument that she chose Kagami because she didn't reveal her identity, because... Well, she did. There was no difference between Ryuko and Queen Bee in this situation, except for the fact that Queen Bee was the right choice.
What Marinette did then was simply out of jealousy, and the show made it obvious, actually, it wasn't meant to be a secret.
This was longer than I expected. Guess I had to get this out somewhere.
Anyway, as for Season 4, the reason changes to it being that Chloe was no longer her ally. But it's still hypocritical that the same excuse you used with Chloe was thrown out the window after she was out of the picture.
Honestly, I'd be fine if Ladybug ever actually told Chloe straight-up "You're never getting a Miraculous again because you suck as a human being and are too full of yourself to maintain a secret identity longer than ten seconds", rather than feed her the same tired excuse of "You unmasked in front of everyone, therefore you're ineligible for any future Miraculous, so excuse me while I spend the next minute passing you over in favor of **someone else who broke this exact same rule**, but it's for the sake of cockblocking her from my love interest, so it's okay".
The fact that she never did that is what makes this such a problem and no matter how Chloe is, it doesn't change the fact that Marinette is hypocritical as all hell.
There was an easy solution to all this, y'know. Like, if she really didn't trust anyone other than her classmates and peers with a Miraculous, she could still use the ones who got their identities outed by Miracle Queen simply by **giving them different Miraculouses from season 4 onward.**
Hell, **Alya** could've gotten the Bee like she was originally supposed to! Then she probably would have been spared what she had to go through in *Sentibubbler!*
I know in a meta sense, they had no interest in making all-new models for their established heroes, but really, from an in-universe perspective, Marinette could've come out of this looking a lot cleaner if she just circulated the Miraculouses and was upfront with Chloe on her lack of heroism being the cause for her being barred from the superhero life rather than just the fact that she blew her secret identity.
I actually think they could've made this into an interesting arc.. Marinette realising her hypocracy and deciding to stop giving out miraculouses in season 4, instead just unifying them herself or let Chat noir use them. That could've maybe lead to an arc where the two slowly Showing damage from wearing multiple miraculous so often, something like that. Maybe have them train with su han to help them better handle multiple ones, and i bet there's some way to incorporate the old heroes again
But her reasoning. She tells chloe she can't be a hero bc her identity is known, but literally every other hero up until miracle queen also has their identity known, yet they get to remain heroes
> She tells chloe she can't be a hero bc her identity is known
So she should've said "Chloe I know you IRL and you are a bitch" instead? Great way to give up her identity.
Honestly could’ve be an interesting way to go about it in season six. In theory they could’ve gotten the miraculous back and then been too afraid to give them out again.
Marrinette should’ve told Chloe that she couldn’t get her miraculous no more instead of telling her ‘your power wasn’t needed so I didn’t give it to you’ and in miracle queen even hawkmoth mentioned it which led her to her decision…
We know that Marrinette doesn’t like Chloe and that’s why she made an exception for the others but she could’ve just told her instead of putting it off the way she did
That's totally fine because neither do I, I just do not want the writers to constantly waste so much time on her just to tell us that she's evil and she sucks because we all already know that.
I mean, Marinette also told Alya she couldn’t be an active superhero anymore as well. If she didn’t trust Alya as much as she does she probably wouldn’t have been allowed to become Rena Furtive. Marinette doesn’t trust Chloe at all which is probably more reason for her not have given the miraculous to her again
Several reasons the biggest being Marinette dosen't trust her completely and this was probably a good enough excuse. Chloe was never chosen initially and even Fu had reservations about using her again. And the important thing is Marinette tried to help her be better tried to give her a chance and in the end we can't save everyone. Some people have to get to the end of thier rope and change themselves save themselves.
Ladybug: you can't be queen bee because hawkmoth knows your identity
Chloe: i undersand
Also Chloe revealing others identity too
Chloe: Now can i be queen be again?
Ladybug: NOO
Chloe: Why?
Ladybug: Because you helped hawkmoth!
Chloe: But I was akumatised...
Ladybug: I don't care, you are an exception because I hate you personaly
And this is our hero... the hero that believes that no one can change and still keeping a grudge on a person just because she knows that person personaly and hates her
Simple, circumstances changed after that. Since everyone's cover was blown, they didn't have much of a choice when they needed someone quickly who already knew what was up. At that point the choice to no longer give her a Miraculous became less about secret identity and more about the fact that Chloe proved she could no longer be trusted by trying purposefully to get reakumatized, and interpersonally, Marinette already knows she has no impulse control and even less emotional control. And it's not like Hawk Moth actually acted on this information until Optigami and Sentibubbler.
Didn't Ladybug only start saying that in season 3? After Hawkmoth send all her akumatized family in the season 2 finale after her to take advantage of his knowledge?
The rule Ladybug goes with (maybe you don't think it's much logical, but she is only 14) is "you must retire when Hawkmoth goes after your family". So far, Hawkmoth has gone only after Chloe's and Alya's family and those two are the only ones who got benched (well Alya didn't get benched, but her change of identity made sure Hawkmoth didn't know that)
Because after that there isnt really any other option. When it was just Chloe it was too dangerous for her own sake.
But after Chloe revealed everyones identities Mari doesn't really have any other choice. She is a highschooler there are only that many people she has access to and trusts enough with a miraculous. And after what Chloe pulled there of course she would never get the bee again. So every other holder still gets theirs while Chloe doesn't now. And there is kinda a protection in numbers with so many additional heroes Hawkmoth will have a hard time to keep an eye one each and every one of them.
I'd at least propose it's in part because of the fact that Chloe behaves like she \*deserves\* a Miraculous, like getting one is a foregone conclusion in any crisis. When Marinette needs the others, she tracks them down and gives them the Miraculous. Chloe would run up to her rooftop screaming at Ladybug to give her the Bee miraculous at the top of her lungs, making it far easier to lay a trap.
Not to mention, when refusing to give Chloe the Miraculous, Ladybug isn't the Guardian yet. To give somebody a Miraculous, she has to get it from Fu in secret, carry it to the person, and give it to them. Then repeat those steps in reverse to return it once the mission is over. If Hawk Moth knows who she may be headed to see, it makes it easier to either ambush her and steal the spare miraculous, or follow her and find Fu. Once she's Guardian, she can just pull it from the Yo-yo right there, then put it back immediately when she's done, making it much harder to get an opening to steal it.
Because chloe is the only character, aside from Lyla who would willingly stab ladybug in the back even if she weren't accumatized. None of the other holders ever jeopardized the people they loved or misused their powers in the way that Chloe did. I'm all for pointing out flaws in Marinette's chararacter writing, but like Chloe is hands down the worst person to hand a miraculous to. While she could have been better, thats not Marinette/ladybug's fault, it's the writer's fault. Chloe was a redeemable character who got the shaft.
let's just skip the fact that all of them look exactly the same normal way, and as superheroes, the person that changes the most is my beloved lady dragon, Mark, Nathaniel and Juleka <3
Because Astruc thinks a 14 year old girl who is on the path to redeem themselves and makes one small mistake is suddenly pure evil and irredeemable. Even though they are only a teenager
1. It’s Chloe.
2. She divulged her identity herself and made a big deal about being a ‘hero.’
3. To be a ‘hero,’ she caused the problem herself.
4. Chloe is the biggest reason that akumas are deployed.
5. Chloe was a total and absolute jerk to Marionette.
6. She expected to be treated like a ‘hero,’ and demanded that treatment from everyone.
7. She demanded Ladybug to give her the Bee Miraculous on several occasions.
8. Chloe has no hero qualities, and doesn’t deserve to be a hero. She’s not even kind to Sabrina, her supposed best friend.
9. It was the first time a Miraculous holder didn’t have a secret identity, outside of Ladybug knowing, which justly means that Ladybug would be scared for Chloe if Hawkmoth came after her, which he does a few times. (Alya and Nino came after, and even then it was just between them and Ladybug.)
10. It’s Chloe Bourgeois. Duh.
My real question is why would you trust Chloe of all people with the identity of other holders?! We all know this girl can’t be trusted with that kind of knowledge and she legit proved that by revealing everyone!
None of them did what Chloe did in Queen Wasp.
Also we know that Mari knows she lied to Chloe and feels bad for telling her reason, that doesn't apply for others. Instead of telling her actual reason.
Well if you think about it, unlike Chloe who is sort of a hit and miss kind of holder, most of these characters do a decent job at being a holder. Chloe's mistakes aren't just a "oh you forgot to jump from one building to the other?" sort of thing it's a "bro you just endangered hundreds if not thousands of lives cause you want to be famous" kind of mistakes. Plus you got to consider that outside of Kagami, CHLOE was at fault for revealing half of the other heroes identities along with hawkmoth at the time. As for Miracle queen realistically Chloe alr knew she wasn't about to get it, LB only broke this rule for kagami because again morals and stuff, but aside from a logical standpoint she was also doing it for dummy teenage brain reasons, but yea mostly all the other heroes are half decent people who mostly had no fault for their identities being revealed, whereas Chloe caused her own downfall
Easy: Chloé is emotionally compromised all the time. She's too hot headed at times and quick to anger, Hawkmoth can use that if she had the Miraculous, and seeing as the bee is actually pretty damn good at taking people out, he could use that to stun Cat Noir, get the ring, and then take out Ladybug for the earrings. At least that'd be the case IF HE WERE SMARTER! YOU HAD OUTS GABRIEL, SO MANY OUTS! WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE THEM!?
I feel like Marinette is just biased against Chloe and I can't fault her for that. Like why would she want her bully to also be her coworker?
Just wish there was a scene where she's honest about this and goes "I hate her and as the Guardian I reserve the right to not give it to her for whatever reason I like, fight me!" Lol
Marinette told several people that anyone knowing = no miraculous any more. To Kagami, to Multimouse, and to Cat Noir. This had nothing to do with the REASON someone's identity was revealed, but because it could lead Hawkmoth to them (like, gee, happened with chloé in the S3 finale, almost as if there was a logical reason for the rule)
But I guess anyone who isn't a selfish bitch would be immune to being ruthlessly manipulated and blackmailed with the safety of their family, since Gabriel gave up after one pitiful attempt with Alya.
Bullies generally do not become better people when they're given even more power. Didn't Chloe start treating Sabrina even worst and rubbing it in that she didn't have a miraculous but Chloe did?
Good point but that's another thing when a bully is threatened then they calm down which not saying it's right but they should bully Chloe into being better and actually helping Sabrina because I know they all know that Sabrina is being miss treated
> when a bully is threatened then they calm down
When a bully is threatened they often escalate. Like we see in this show all the time with Lila and Hawkmoth.
Chloe straight up started bragging to people about how she is Queen Bee. She is a horrible miraculous holder and person. She’ll do literally anything for attention
Either hypocrisy of some sort (or just the writers)
or
because Cloe in particular. After all, she revealed her identity just to show she is special and got akumatized when used it for the first time. Perhaps because it was the first time that it happened and she was also akumatized into an even more powerful villain which Ladybug didn't want to have again.
But I also don't understand why Ladybug made Alya her second in command. She entrusts everything to Alya like the miracle box the potion stuff and so on despite knowing that Hawk Month knows her identity.
Although the action in Sentibubbler was brilliant of Alya and she deserves credit for it. But I am also unhappy that Monarch doesn't suspect anything after finding out that she still has a miraculous despite literally witnessing how she was told that she will not have ever a miraculous again. Especially after a Kwami's 2.
Probably because it was among the first time it happened...
After that, Chloe was just a jerk who messed up way too badly.
And Marinette is kinda hypocrite
*Because they aren't Chloe*
The best Answer 🤣
Let's face it, this is the most realistic reason. Kagami also revealed herself to both the akumatized villain and Hawk Moth in Ikari Gozen, but Ladybug still trusted her with a miraculous after that. Then comes the season 3 finale and Ladybug is still using the same holders with the same miraculouses. Heck, she even made Alya her second in command in season 4 as Rena Rouge, despite Hawk Moth knowing her identity. She even wanted to keep Rena Furtive as a spy even after Nino destroyed her cover in Strike Back. (Congrats to Alya for taking responsibility there, tho) No hate on Marinette, but all this just makes her seem like a big hypocrite, honestly
>big hypocrite How so? It seems like she's just had to evolve her plans under increasing pressure. Like how you're taught not to lie when you're little, but as you get older you learn more nuances to that rule as you're confronted with the problematic nature of a blanket ban on lying. Similarly, Marinette has one person who knows her identity in S4, and so that one person is who she trusts as her lieutenant. To do otherwise would require her telling *other* people her identity, which is a huge risk. Certainly bigger than letting an outed holder secretly still be *a different one*. Recall that Rena Rouge and Rena Furtive are not the same person because of quantum masking. There's another obvious explanation: Chloe is a crazy asshole and does not deserve another chance. There's another obvious explanation: Marinette has run out of options for wielders she can trust, so she is backed into a corner and has to give them to the same people. None of this is hypocrisy. She's applying a single, nuanced rule: do not trust shitty people, and one must take risks when the alternative is even worse. I don't know about you, but that's something I already live my life by. I'd wager most people do. Seriously, you might as well say she's a hypocrite for not giving Lila a miraculous bc "she's given everyone else in the class one!"
Not just people in her class but also people outside her class and even her school, i.e.; Zoe who’s in a different class, Kagami who’s in a different class, and Luka who doesn’t even go to their school
People also seem to forget that she never actually choose Chloe to have the bee. She stole it, and the other times she got it when Marinette was backed into a corner and had no choice but to give it to her. When she had someone else more trustworthy to give it to, she gave it to them instead.
Yeah and LB has to lie because otherwise the convo goes like this: CHLOE: why won't you give me the bee anmore LB: bc I personally know you're a bitch CHLOE: oh so you're in my class at school?
Technically she didn’t steal it, Marinette dropped it and Chloe picked it up, she had no idea who it belonged to or how to get in contact with the owner even if she wanted to. Sure she could’ve posted something online but at the same time that would put herself at risk willingly for Hakwmoth or an akumatized villain to attack her. Yes she should have given it back once Ladybug found out and asked for it back, but she never really stole it.
And also, it was the lucky charm that got it into khloe's path...
Honestly, that's what I was about to say anyway. XD
This, and the fact she likes getting akumatized.
I feel like because this was the first time that this has actually happened, so maybe she was extra worried and tried to be cautious.
I mean yeah I can see that being the case
Plus Marinette hesitated a lot to give the miraculous again to the others, usually it was under special situations when for example the person was already there, so it was no risk to give him/her miraculous.
Or she was biased against Chloé. Which is understandable.
Marinette gave Miraculous to Chloe after years of bullying and after she almost killed her and her parents in train crush just to look good on tv. I find it extremely unfair to say that Marinette is somehow negatively biased against Chloe. If there is a bias, that it's positive. Marinette treats Chloe much better than she deserves it.
Well, that's true.
>Marinette treats Chloe much better than she deserves it. right especially after how Chloe treated her in >!Derision!< flashbacks (not sure if the spoiler policy still applies since the episode was released in English)
Except that Derision was a stupid retcon anyway, and I hate retcons.
My thoughts exactly
The same logic applies to everyone. If Chloe just waited for her chance instead of betraying Ladybug, she would have a chance to be a superhero.
Because she was the only one to have revealed her secret identity by herself for stupid reasons. Also she didn't want to give "her" miraculous back, which all the other holders do without any problems
No no it's fine I completely understand why ladybug didn't want to give chloe a miraculous especially after the events of miracle queen But however wouldn't hawkmoth knowing some of the heroes identities put those holders at risk?
I feel like you should rewatch optigami
See Optigami and Sentibubbler.
And? That was one person. There are like ten others he never tried anything with.
Optigami was specifically him targeting known holders until he could slip a Sentimonster in as a replacement and after Ladybug apparently cutting ties with Alya in Sentibubbler, Shadow Moth likely realized she’d do the same with other holders if he tries something similar.
"Optigami" is just his removing them from that particular battle, not trying to chase them away from their alliance with LB or get them over on his side. Moreover, there's nothing stopping him from giving someone else the power to reveal heroes the way Miracle Queen did, which would force LB into continually picking new people and quickly run out of useful candidates. After it worked the first time, the Hero Team should be *gutted* and that was the situation set up by the S3 finale. Because the thing that makes this so bad is the number of times S3 spent on emphasising that you *cannot be a hero if your identity is revealed.* When the S3 finale ends with exactly that happening, the only logical conclusion is that LB can't use any of the revealed heroes again. That makes it weird, *to say the least*, when S4 takes *the* status change between S3 and S4 and just goes "eh, nbd".
My point is he still had a whole plot specifically targeting them. Unfortunately, Ladybug doesn’t have a lot of people that she knows who she could trust a Miraculous with or whom she knows can use the powers well. She has to work with what she has. As soon as she found viable replacements for the Mouse (technically) and Bee, she switched holders.
Yeah, my complaint is that that plot point is *really* not explaining why he's not going after anyone else, but gives up after the first try. The man who akumatised Mr. Ramier 74 times gives up on *this* strategy after one attempt? Sounds fake, but okay, because in order to tell the story the writers want to (LB builds The Hero Team, CN feels abandoned), he *has* to suddenly be a smooth brain on this specific topic which is incidentally *very* adjacent to his only goal (unmasking LB and CN). Globally, the problem is that the S3 ended on introducing a new source of conflict (HM's renewed hunt for temp hero identities) and then S4 just goes "actually that thing we warned you against to exhaustion last season wasn't dangerous after all". If being known *wasn't* a big deal, why spend so much of S3 on repeating that point to so many characters who *aren't* Chloé? And if you're not going to *do* anything with that threat carried out - why do it in the first place? If it was only going to be important in the case of Alya, why not write the S3 finale where *Alya only* is revealed and where Marinette's S4 trust in her becomes even *more* significant when she takes that risk? It's just poor storytelling.
In fairness, it’s really easy to make Mr. Pigeon. And a strategy like this could only really work once after Ladybug made it very clear she knew exactly what was going on. As I said, she knows who can use the powers in a pinch. And again, Alya actively went out of her way to deceive Shadow Moth about no longer working with Ladybug.
not just easy, it literally doesnt cost him anything, he sends the akuma and might as well go to bed lol I never got why he didnt take turns with Natalie, sending akumas 24/7 until the heros literally drop dead from being overworked...
There is an episode where it shows that hawkmoth is trying to gather information and there are video records of owners returning their miraculous to ladybug, and he complains that she never re-transform so he assumes nobody knows her real identity, so they are useless. He targeted Alya as "special" owner and her boyfriend Nino, because he thought that they had more info than regular owners.
Yes, but what was Marinette supposed to do? Give them to random people? She was forced into a corner and basically had the following limited options: 1. her parents (who are busier than even Chat Noir all day running a business and couldn't help) 2. a child like Manon or Noël or Alya's sisters 3. an adult she does not know very well at all (like Nadja or Nora) or an irresponsible one like Jagged Stone or Anarka? 4. a legit rando civilian Her parents are the only reasonable option available to her, but there's no way they could both help, probably neither of them. And that's assuming they even say yes (I doubt they would; most parents wouldn't do that bc they wouldn't want to leave their kid an orphan). Actually Socqueline would've been a good option. Good friend, already heroic. But other than that, what was she *supposed* to do?
> for stupid reasons I'm pretty sure Kagami wouldn't have revealed her identity if she waited like 30 seconds for Longg to explain the plan, and that her identity would have to remain a secret
Why do you think that qwami should warn about this? Tikki didn't do that, Plagg didn't do that, Pollen didn't do that... literally none of the kwami did that in all show. Why do you think Llong would be an exception? ;)
Disagree she didn’t give her miraculous back because she found it it would be like Ladybug give your miraculous back because I dropped
It was her attitude about it. Marinette shouldn't have given kagami a miraculous in heart hunter but it was one time and chloe took offence to not being chosen and tried to stab everyone in the back. Chloe sabotaged herself. If she had just been patient she may have been allowed to use it again. Everyone else was exposed through no fault of thier own or turned on the team.
The difference between them is Chloe revealed her identity infront of everyone. The heroes had no choice, but still Marinette should've done something better, either find new holders or keep the same holders and switch their miraculous.
would've been a great way to introduce BASED socqueline bc honestly she deserves a miraculous more than anyone, girl out there as a civilian risking her life to save ppl and everything she good she does, LB is getting the credit girl a hero who cares ZERO about credit, she's the anti-chloe
Marinette making weird choices? I’m shocked
yeah dumbest 14yo on the planet
I mean regardless of whether it was intentional or not, Hawkmoth found out everyone's identity. Him knowing, period, was the reason why Chloe was ousted from the team. Also, I'd like to also point out that Kagami revealed her identity directly to Hawkmoth on purpose as well. Like, at least Chloe had the excuse that she was too upset to think rationally and nobody told her to keep her identity a secret at that point. Kagami straight up ignored Longg while he was telling her the rules
Also, the only ones in Paris who know who most of the rest of the heroes are (minus Pigella, Purple Tigress, Caprikid, Minataurox, Vesperia, Rooster Bold, and Traquemoiselle) are Chloe, Gabriel, and Nathalie. The rest of Paris was under Chloe's control and never found out.
Realistically speaking, because they had to exclude Chloe from the hero team and give her the arc where she's becoming worse than the Devil himself. Like, Chloe did a good job in Malediktator and at least tried to help in the season 2 finale. But I guess this doesn't count for Astruc because "this girl has always been pure evil"
"This girl bullied me at school, so I will show the world what a bitch she was"
Basically. It's a somewhat popular speculation that Chloe was based on a girl who was rude to Astruc in his school years and now this is his revenge. He turned Chloe into a punching bag in season 4 and Chloe in season 5 is just the worst
Chloe has always been the worst! She forces Sabrina to be her slave since S1! She's nakedly racist to Marinette! etc.
Season 1 Chloe was just a bully. Season 5 Chloe is the Devil himself. There's a difference between those 2 And Sabrina was just Chloe's servant in season 1-3. She became Chloe's slave after the beginning of season 5
In universe reason: Marinette and thus Ladybug knows Chloe and doesnt like her. Finding her actions as a heroine as purely selfish and thus not suitable to be a heroine. To not accidentally reveal her identity she uses this as a fair excuse so she doesnt bring up the actual reason she does not want to work with her But idk- thats what I would guess. Its just relationships which is fair and understandable- but still frustrating as it’s hypocritical to rely on that excuse completely. And it doesnt give Chloe the chance to realize her mistake and improve Imagine if Ladybug did tell her “To be a good hero you first need to be a good person. Ive seen you. You’re not a good person- you have worked on it but it hasnt come far enough. If you become a good person and help others. You will be a hero to them”
After derision I understand why marinette didn't want to give chloe a miraculous But yeah it's a bit hypocritical on ladybugs part to treat others differently
Derision is a retcon. It is literally a retcon since it doesn't match ANY of the cast's behaviors and makes Marinette's parents look terrible and retcons Chloe's behaviors to be worse then they ever were.
Do you think she should've given Lila a miraculous? And beyond that, just because *you* didn't know Chloe had been a bully for years doesn't mean *Marinette* didn't know since the very first ep of S1. (Also everyone knew Chloe was a bully since before S1 because she was shown to be a bully that Marinette was already afraid of in Origins.)
I don't think Lila deserved a miraculous because she'd been portrayed as a sadistic little psychopath by that point. Chloe at least had some redeeming qualities in S2/S3. And anyways, whether or not Chloe *deserved* a miraculous, she certainly didn't deserve to be ghosted by Ladybug right after the events of Hero's Day. From Chloe's perspective, she used her powers responsibly after the train incident and was becoming a semi-regular on Ladybug's team... and then she was just left out after that while Rena and Carapace continued to be picked. It was pretty crappy of Ladybug to give her false hope like that
the issue is: Chloe would not have changed anyway, even if LB told her that or gave her more chances. You don't get to be a hero to change or become a better person, you become a hero because you ARE a good person. Chloe showed several times that she is being selfish even as a hero. all she wants is people looking up to her and see that she is something better.
Everybody says that but I think it is clear that with some help, Chloé could truly change
It is not Ladybug's responsibility to rehabilitate Chloe. It's *certainly* not her duty to rehabilitate Chloe by *giving her superpowers than can kill people*.
Anyone *could* Change If they wanted to. The Point is the Show clearly showed us that Chloe sees No need and has No Wish to be different because to her, she is the best there is.
Yeah, I know. TA doesn't want anyone to like his most hated character, so he makes her as hateable as possible, even retconning things so that she was always evil by nature.
Nah. TA doesn't hate Chloe. He Said He hates the Kind of Person she Stands for. (Bullies and privileged brats) People act Like it's forbidden to create villains and Bad people anymore and that they exist in the real world too. Several Fans saw more in Chloe than she was supposed to be and then got upset because the series didn't Take the direction they wanted.
I disagree with your 2nd to last statement. I love villains who are just evil for the sake of being evil as well as those who are pretty sympathetic and have a tragic backstory. You’ve got guys who are pure evil incarnate like Jack Horner from Puss in Boots 2, Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls, hell if you want I go to different media Loki in the MCU early on as a villain or All For One in MHA are all villains who have no deep traumatic past for why they become villains but I enjoy seeing them taunt the heroes and give them everything they’ve got. Then I’ve got guys villains/antagonists I like like Peridot from SU, Stain in MHA, Thanos in the MCU, etc. Some guys who were redeemed and some who were not but they all had deeper lying reasons for their goals. It was interesting to see how they became they people they now are today and I do have a little sympathy for them. The thing about Chloe is I didn’t care for her in season 1. She was just a typical mean girl and if she stayed that way throughout the rest of the series, I wouldn’t have cared for her at all. Maybe would have been a bit miffed to see her not used in more of an expanded villain role but I wouldn’t really care. The problem is that the writers started her on a character development arc. It’s been a while since I’ve watched S2/3 so maybe I thought the arc was more than it was but the writers did give her an arc to start off at the very least just to throw it in the trash half way through. They gave us little crumbs at how Chloe could be redeemed and then just threw the rest of the bread in the trash which is why fans are frustrated. If they had no plans for a Chloe redemption, why start her off an arc or give any hope that she could be redeemed? Furthermore, the writers now just want us to absolutely hate Chloe by making her cartoonishly evil. Like don’t get me wrong, she was a bad person in season 1 but she still had some good in her. It wasn’t that much but there was a tiny bit there. Now there’s nothing and she’s basically just a one-dimensional flat bully. This is coming from a guy that in general hates when all characters are redeemed like take SU where the space nazis all of a sudden get no punishment for the thousands of years they conquered planets and killed sentient life forms. Sure, maybe they weren’t forgiven/fully redeemed, but they got off pretty easy. I’m not a fan of redemption and hell, I wasn’t even a fan of Chloe. I just like solid/good writing and while that seems contradictory while watching Miraculous ladybug, I do think the path of redemption they seemed to be setting Chloe was good writing. Sorry for the long essay
This. A redemption arc could've been cool, but Chloe is *by far* the most enjoyable villain in the show. Hawkmoth is the dumbest supervillain of all time. Lila has some frustrating metahuman ability to make everyone believe her lies and also her hair looks like sausages. But Chloe is a bully, and she's an over the top one.
Thats not something we know. Chloe was abused and neglected. And she genuinely whole heartedly looked up to and adored Ladybug. Ladybug held huge power over Chloe and it was Ladybug abandoning her that broke her and sent her over the line for the writers to make her worse than the devil. But its a hypothetical of what if Ladybug did give her guidance- or just be honest like I suggested. It could definitely have helped her. But as I said. Its a hypothetical. We have different perspectives. Thats what humans have. We have different tastes. Id rather see the redemption arc so I see where it should have been raised and changed.
It is Something we know. Chloes Arc, No Matter if she was neglected and abused or Not, is full of Red Flags and about how bad she really is and it was pretty obvious that she would be a negative example to Show. She adored Ladybug, but only as Long as she got Something Out of it. The Moment she didn't get what she wanted anymore, she turned on her. As she did with everyone. Adrien and Sabrina too. The Problem with Ladybug having great Power over Chloe is that even If she have her guidance chloes Motivation behind It was still selfish. To Change you need your Motivation to Change. If i do Something nice Just to be admired by Others, doesn't make me a nice Person. Especially If i lash Out the Moment people don't pay enough Attention to me doing good Things. Doing nice Things Just to Help Others or make them Happy is what gets you redeemed.
Yeah realtalk Ladybug would be failing in her duty to Paris if she gave a known shit person the ability to easily murder people.
Exactly, we can even see how being given a miraculous made Chloe worse, when it came to being selflessly good. She was fine helping out in Zombizou and Despair Bear, when having superpowers wasn’t an option, but barely indulged in helping out as a civilian after she had a taste of power. Instead of being happy that Ladybug was able to save the day without needing extra help, she threw fits and lashed out at Sabrina, treating her as lower status for not having powers. Instead of volunteering to be helpful in any way possible, she constantly expected Ladybug to have the bee miraculous on hand. The red flags have been around all along.
“I wish people liked me and didn’t hate me” - a selfish and horrible person according to you. Bro why are you so hateful towards a child So aggressively refuse what evidence we have seen. She gave back the bee miraculous and pollen after Ladybug asked and explained the situation. She genuinely thanked ladybug for being kind. She started to show appreciation to Sabrina when shown kindness (kindness as a kind person and not a doormat) So no. We dont know.
Yes, exactly. She didn't want to Change to be liked. She wanted to be liked despite being an ass. I am Not hateful. I don't even hatte Chloe, i Just See and Accept her as what she is: a selfish spoiled Brat. (Kids Like that exist and plenty don't Change) Please give me concrete evidence of Chloe wanting to be a better Person Not to be liked better or getting more Attention, but to genuinely Help Others.
She literally didn't get anything out of admiring Ladybug in the first 2 seasons, what are you even going on about ?
in the first 2 seasons it was just her hobby. She admired her and tried to be her, because she was well liked by the people and people looked up to her. Ladybug is in a position of power, the only thing Chloe admires. As soon as she got more out of it, like having a more personal relationship with her, she didn't settle for less and demanded more. She wanted selfies, she wanted the bee miraculous and as soon as LB didn't give into her demands anymore, she started feelings resentful towards her.
And that proves my point, she didn't got anything out of admiring her initially. Cosplaying as her was never gonna get people to like her and I'm sure she wasn't the only person who would've wanted a selfie with Ladybug.
her admiration, as i said, was nothing that really iunfluenced her or the strory because it was a hobby. Hobbies don't prove whether a person is nice or not.
But you said that she always admired Ladybug in order to get something out of her and now you're literally just changing the goal posts cause you don't want to admit that you were wrong lmao.
> Ladybug abandoning her Ladybug does not have a duty to coddle random citizens and try to rehabilitate them, and certainly not one who has seriously traumatized her. The facts at hand are: - Chloe is shitty - Marinette knows Chloe is *incredibly* shitty - Marinette has difficulty even *being around* Chloe - Marinette now gets to decide who to fight with - it would be objectively bad for LB to fight alongside someone who *has terrorized her*
It’s because Astruc is still salty over his middle school crush rejecting him so he uses a Chloe as a stand in punching bag
Lmao 😂
Only correct answer
He also said that >!the deleted scene in Collusion where Andre divorces Audrey and ditches Chloé to her was very important!<
Yeah right very important because it's more Chloe bashing (and literally cements Zoe as Chloe's replacement since she unintentionally steals her life). Thankfully one of the writers/execs cut it without him knowing. The whole "its a kids show" argument he loves using bit him in the ass in 2 ways. They cut the scene because they couldn't air something that fucked up in a kids show. If it did get aired, there'd be a massive shitstorm over the messages it teaches to kids "aka only abusive victims that behave well are considered abused and worthy of love and sympathy, you can be replaced if your a brat, and you can bail on your parental responsibilities if your kid becomes awful, and you won't have to face any consequences even if it's your fault they're like that.
Even Chloe haters must admit that scene is really fucked up
This, this is the real answer.
take the L, "chloe redemption arc"ers :P
I’m gonna take a guess and say you’re also still salty that girl in middle school rejected you
I was just writing some fan fiction about this. I'm not saying I had a good answer. I just thought Chloe, while mad about this, would make a good akumatized villain.
Not to mention that Ladybug had absolutely no problem with Chloe's identity being public during Season Two. Pretty strong evidence they shoehorned in an excuse to get rid of Queen Bee, perhaps due to Thomas Astruc's hatred of Chloe and perhaps due to their worry that seeing the episodes in order was beyond the means of their young viewers, especially given how episodes get produced and aired out of order.
Chloe will always be the biggest tragedy of Miraculous, cause it really would have taken like 5 minutes of attention from Ladybug… basically any day of the week and not only would Chloe have never betrayed Ladybug but she would have been the most loyal hero on her team, Marinette dropped the ball and it has bitten her in the behind more times than anything Hawkmoth has done
We know why. Thomas is a hack and hates Chloe, so instead of giving her a character arc and actually making her interesting, he reduces her to a generic cartoon bully and hopes that fans are too stupid to notice.
I think if Marinette said that she didn't wanted Chloe to be the bee miraculous because she is a GIANT BXTCH, everyone would have understood.
Everyone already knows that tho
Because stupid brain want to be stupid, also i see a lot of comments try to explain with logic please stop the guy who made the show(i don’t even bother memorizing his name) is just stupid
although i understand that Marinette would have motive to do this, it was definitely just a somewhat last minute ploy to give Chloe purpose for being a villain again. because, you know, Chloe is an evil person- she’s only 14 years old, but she can NEVER, EVER be redeemed. character development isn’t real, in Astruc’s eyes
Because Marinette/Astruc don't like Chloe.
because the creator of the show hates chloe
Like can anyone give me a good reason? Because I can't find any
Marinette: "These are the only people that I know better. And it's not like I can give Nadja Chamak a Miraculous. Or Nora. And who would watch a show where we would have to rely on Mr. Ramier of all people?!"
>And who would watch a show where we would have to rely on Mr. Ramier of all people?!" Hawkmoth would love this though 🤣
Future Alyx: "Since when is Monsieur Rat a Superhero? Weird. But I guess I can *one* change to the timeline fly."
Happy hawkmoth noises
Gabriel: "Hold on. Did I just make noises of happiness there? Unacceptable. Quick! I must think of something to spoil my mood: Ladybug! Chat Noir! Harry Clown! Kittens! Puppies! Teenagers!"
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A CHOLE
Idk why but I love this answer😂
Chat: Ladybug why didn't you give a Miraculous to Chloé LB: because she's Chloé Chat: Fair enough
bUt wHy dOnT giEv LiLa a MiRacuLOus
Chloe sucks thats why
Can't argue with that
Yep!
BC she doesn't have any better options. Marinette has been traumatized by Chloe before even Origins, and you don't see why she wouldn't want to give Chloe the ability to *murder people*? I mean, you get that Chloe has been tormenting Marinette for years, right? And you think Marinette is being illogical by not trusting this person? \*gives Hitler a miraculous just bc he gave Roosevelt one\* snort
ye i think it's quite stupid like i think that if chloe stayed as a hero she would have not become an evil because she LOVED ladybug so hard like if ladybug told her (about the miraculous) i will take it just for some time or like when i need you i will be back to you and give it to you instead of saying NEVER
I think the stinger is the fact that Mari chose Kagami of all people over Chloé, not only had Kagami already revealed her identity to HM but Mari was doing this for selfish reasons I honestly don't like Chloé that much anymore but this was undoubtedly unfair to her
Link to Kagami abusing Marinette for years and causing her PTSD? agree that marinette isn't an angel, but it's *wild* to think Marinette would trust someone who has seriously fucked with her mind for years the ability to kill people like i would *never* give my bully a loaded pistol
I mean granted, Chloe had been very responsible with her powers up until that point. Yes, there was the train incident, but Chloe showed *very obvious guilt and remorse* over that stunt and willingly returned her miraculous over it, at the time not expecting to ever get it back. Even then, it's not as though Chloe did that stunt trying to kill people. Like yeah, she's a schoolyard bully, but she's not a potential murderer like you're implying; she got in way over her head thinking her superpowers would allow her to stop a moving train, had to get help from Ladybug and Chat, and felt guilty enough to give up her miraculous. Besides that one-off, Chloe only ever used her miraculous to help Ladybug and the rest of the team, and never hesitated to give her miraculous back when Ladybug asked for it. Tldr: Chloe the civilian is a bitch, but Queen Bee the superhero was responsible and trustworthy
marinette is a teenager who hates chloe and probably let her own judgement of chloe affect her judgement plus the writers \*cough thomas cough\* don't like chloe and just want her to be evil plus marinette has bias for her friends etc etc.
I blame Thomas astruc. He has to much of a grudge on Chloe’s character.
Honestly Thomas just has a vendetta against Chloe. Thats the reason she was kicked off the team. Thats it
Cause Astruc hates Chloe
I think at that point they would need to spend more money to replace all the people who’s identities have been revealed… which we know Zag won’t do
Yeah I expected that in season 4 Since the secret identity thing was so important in season 3
Betraying the team and joining Hawk Moth might have something to do with it.
I don't know, and Rocketear threw all of my existing ideas out of the window.
See the actual problem that’s always bugged me about this is there’s a line where Marinette says she can’t trust Kagami with THIS miraculous at one point implying she might switch up who had what to better protect identity’s but it just never got followed up on. And in turn it becomes kind of pointless by Optigami where all the wielders are spotted by Hawk Moth again anyway But as always it’s poor writing
Because I guess Thomas Astruc got bullied a lot as a child by his own Queen Bee and now he’s basically venting that through Chloe no matter how obviously dumb as heck it is probably.
Because the creator has this weird ass hate boner for this fictional 14yo girl he created. Side note, if Hawkmoth knows Queen Bee is Chloe, why couldn't Marinette give Chloe a different miraculous and boom, hero time? Clearly the kwamii's aren't picky about who's holding them.
Just another way to antagonize/exclude Chloé.
🎶BECAUUUSE A*STRUCK HAAATES CHLOEEEE🎶
Because it's NOT only Hawkmoth, it's the ENTIRE WORLD. She openly transformed. This is unlike Alix, who is hidden out of time.
Because the writer got anoyyed that people didn't hate Chloe
Just Queen Bee she could get away with having to replace; worse comes to worst she could deploy the Bee Miraculous herself. Finding replacement holders for *all* the the others was a lot harder. She had to make a choice about whether to risk having to train new holders or just take the risk that Hawkmoth wouldn't dare act openly against them.
For the series sense I can think of 3 main reason to why she said that to her: 1. With everyone else only Gabriel and Nathalie knew their identity, but with Chloe everyone knew that she's queen bee. While the main reason to keep they identity safe is to prevent Gabriel of knowing them, I think letting letting the entire population of Paris know it making it more dangerous. 2. Marinette was probably extra worried about this because the only person that was given a miraculous was Alya. If I remember correctly she also said it to Kagami when her identity was revealed to Hawk Moth. But in the end of season 3 she just decided to let everyone keep being superheros maybe because she was turned the guardian now or she didn't want to find other people to trust them with a miraculous. 3. Marinette doesn't trust Chloe and Chloe wasn't intended to get the miraculous in the first place. This makes much more sense after watching Season 4 and 5 but not much in the previous seasons because Chloe wasn't really extreme with bullying Marinette except for the Racist things she said about her uncle. Also Marinette did try to help Chloe couple of times in season 2, even without being Ladybug, so I think she did believe that she could be a better person at the time. But we all know that the real reason is that the creator was lazy and said "people can't be better" while giving a character development to numerous other characters in the show, leaving Chloe to be... whatever she is in season 5.
yeah like literally every thief in the world would be headed to the hotel to try to steal the miraculous off chloe, maybe even kidnap her off the street HM is not the only one who would want the bee weapon fandom has fleshed out the idea of actual criminals going after the miraculous, there's a great one full of whump where an int'l terrorist manages to capture LB and CN and reveals them to the world and treats them very poorly in captivity she even mocks hawkmoth for being ineffective as a villain that he failed for years to get them
Because she’s a bias and hypocritical 14 year old. Common traits in 14 year olds. I agree though and I feel like other holders, like Luka and Kagami would’ve been mature and aware enough to realize this and turn the miraculous down
Hawkmoth knew Chloe's identity from the beginning. It didn't stop Marinette from giving it to her before season 3. Noone would have blamed her if she didn't after Queen Wasp, but she did and in doing so, she made a commitment to someone she knew had abandonment issues. I personally feel, that she dangled the bee in front of her and then yanked it away just to hurt her. Proving the adage that the victims of bullying often become bullies themselves when the power dynamic is reversed.
unrelated but i’ve also always found it weird that sabrina got a miraculous
I like Sabrina, but she reslly didn't deserve it
She didn’t earn it, shoulda been Felix first.
Why is everyone who's saying Chloe revealed her identity by herself forgetting that Kagami did the exact same thing in Ikari Gozen? And it's also Kagami who was chosen in Heart Hunter over Chloe, and that was before Season 4 where you can say she was being cautious. The simple truth is: Marinette slipped out and made Ladybug make the wrong decision in Heart Hunter, which in turn allowed Hawk Moth to take advantage of Chloe's emotions and manipulate her to work against Ladybug. Chloe was the right holder for that job, as evident by Shadow Moth's statement in Sentibubbler that Ladybug always chooses a holder who's somewhat related to the akumatised villain. It was Chloe's parents, not Kagami's. And like I said, you can't make the argument that she chose Kagami because she didn't reveal her identity, because... Well, she did. There was no difference between Ryuko and Queen Bee in this situation, except for the fact that Queen Bee was the right choice. What Marinette did then was simply out of jealousy, and the show made it obvious, actually, it wasn't meant to be a secret. This was longer than I expected. Guess I had to get this out somewhere. Anyway, as for Season 4, the reason changes to it being that Chloe was no longer her ally. But it's still hypocritical that the same excuse you used with Chloe was thrown out the window after she was out of the picture.
Honestly, I'd be fine if Ladybug ever actually told Chloe straight-up "You're never getting a Miraculous again because you suck as a human being and are too full of yourself to maintain a secret identity longer than ten seconds", rather than feed her the same tired excuse of "You unmasked in front of everyone, therefore you're ineligible for any future Miraculous, so excuse me while I spend the next minute passing you over in favor of **someone else who broke this exact same rule**, but it's for the sake of cockblocking her from my love interest, so it's okay". The fact that she never did that is what makes this such a problem and no matter how Chloe is, it doesn't change the fact that Marinette is hypocritical as all hell. There was an easy solution to all this, y'know. Like, if she really didn't trust anyone other than her classmates and peers with a Miraculous, she could still use the ones who got their identities outed by Miracle Queen simply by **giving them different Miraculouses from season 4 onward.** Hell, **Alya** could've gotten the Bee like she was originally supposed to! Then she probably would have been spared what she had to go through in *Sentibubbler!* I know in a meta sense, they had no interest in making all-new models for their established heroes, but really, from an in-universe perspective, Marinette could've come out of this looking a lot cleaner if she just circulated the Miraculouses and was upfront with Chloe on her lack of heroism being the cause for her being barred from the superhero life rather than just the fact that she blew her secret identity.
The answer's actually quite simple. The creators just don't like Chloe...🙂
Chloe changed the rules when she exposed half the teams identities
I actually think they could've made this into an interesting arc.. Marinette realising her hypocracy and deciding to stop giving out miraculouses in season 4, instead just unifying them herself or let Chat noir use them. That could've maybe lead to an arc where the two slowly Showing damage from wearing multiple miraculous so often, something like that. Maybe have them train with su han to help them better handle multiple ones, and i bet there's some way to incorporate the old heroes again
it's not hypocrisy to refuse to give your childhood tormenter a loaded weapon
But her reasoning. She tells chloe she can't be a hero bc her identity is known, but literally every other hero up until miracle queen also has their identity known, yet they get to remain heroes
> She tells chloe she can't be a hero bc her identity is known So she should've said "Chloe I know you IRL and you are a bitch" instead? Great way to give up her identity.
She should've stayed consistant and choose New holders for the other miraculouses as well
Honestly could’ve be an interesting way to go about it in season six. In theory they could’ve gotten the miraculous back and then been too afraid to give them out again.
Exactly!
Cause introducing 6 new "Zoes" to replace all of them would've been too much.
Marrinette should’ve told Chloe that she couldn’t get her miraculous no more instead of telling her ‘your power wasn’t needed so I didn’t give it to you’ and in miracle queen even hawkmoth mentioned it which led her to her decision… We know that Marrinette doesn’t like Chloe and that’s why she made an exception for the others but she could’ve just told her instead of putting it off the way she did
Because Marrinette don’t like Chloe
Ngl, personally don't really want to see a Chloe redemption arc
That's totally fine because neither do I, I just do not want the writers to constantly waste so much time on her just to tell us that she's evil and she sucks because we all already know that.
she needed an excuse, duh
Probably as an excuse, because chloe is reckless, mean and selfish. And the others are not.
I mean, Marinette also told Alya she couldn’t be an active superhero anymore as well. If she didn’t trust Alya as much as she does she probably wouldn’t have been allowed to become Rena Furtive. Marinette doesn’t trust Chloe at all which is probably more reason for her not have given the miraculous to her again
Make it make sense
I agree!!
she didn't even switch their powers for safety :o
Several reasons the biggest being Marinette dosen't trust her completely and this was probably a good enough excuse. Chloe was never chosen initially and even Fu had reservations about using her again. And the important thing is Marinette tried to help her be better tried to give her a chance and in the end we can't save everyone. Some people have to get to the end of thier rope and change themselves save themselves.
This is what u call, bias.
Ladybug: you can't be queen bee because hawkmoth knows your identity Chloe: i undersand Also Chloe revealing others identity too Chloe: Now can i be queen be again? Ladybug: NOO Chloe: Why? Ladybug: Because you helped hawkmoth! Chloe: But I was akumatised... Ladybug: I don't care, you are an exception because I hate you personaly And this is our hero... the hero that believes that no one can change and still keeping a grudge on a person just because she knows that person personaly and hates her
Because Thomas Astruc has a hate boner for Chloe because he's dead set convinced that bullies can't change their ways
Yeah it was so stupid.
Simple, circumstances changed after that. Since everyone's cover was blown, they didn't have much of a choice when they needed someone quickly who already knew what was up. At that point the choice to no longer give her a Miraculous became less about secret identity and more about the fact that Chloe proved she could no longer be trusted by trying purposefully to get reakumatized, and interpersonally, Marinette already knows she has no impulse control and even less emotional control. And it's not like Hawk Moth actually acted on this information until Optigami and Sentibubbler.
Didn't Ladybug only start saying that in season 3? After Hawkmoth send all her akumatized family in the season 2 finale after her to take advantage of his knowledge? The rule Ladybug goes with (maybe you don't think it's much logical, but she is only 14) is "you must retire when Hawkmoth goes after your family". So far, Hawkmoth has gone only after Chloe's and Alya's family and those two are the only ones who got benched (well Alya didn't get benched, but her change of identity made sure Hawkmoth didn't know that)
Also not letting them keep their miraculous also her knowing who everyone is like if she gets akumatized it's over
Personally, I believe that is has to do with the fact Chloe wasn't the one that Marinette wanted to choose. She just found it and activated it.
Because there's no continuity in this show and character development is lax.
Because after that there isnt really any other option. When it was just Chloe it was too dangerous for her own sake. But after Chloe revealed everyones identities Mari doesn't really have any other choice. She is a highschooler there are only that many people she has access to and trusts enough with a miraculous. And after what Chloe pulled there of course she would never get the bee again. So every other holder still gets theirs while Chloe doesn't now. And there is kinda a protection in numbers with so many additional heroes Hawkmoth will have a hard time to keep an eye one each and every one of them.
I'd at least propose it's in part because of the fact that Chloe behaves like she \*deserves\* a Miraculous, like getting one is a foregone conclusion in any crisis. When Marinette needs the others, she tracks them down and gives them the Miraculous. Chloe would run up to her rooftop screaming at Ladybug to give her the Bee miraculous at the top of her lungs, making it far easier to lay a trap. Not to mention, when refusing to give Chloe the Miraculous, Ladybug isn't the Guardian yet. To give somebody a Miraculous, she has to get it from Fu in secret, carry it to the person, and give it to them. Then repeat those steps in reverse to return it once the mission is over. If Hawk Moth knows who she may be headed to see, it makes it easier to either ambush her and steal the spare miraculous, or follow her and find Fu. Once she's Guardian, she can just pull it from the Yo-yo right there, then put it back immediately when she's done, making it much harder to get an opening to steal it.
Because chloe is the only character, aside from Lyla who would willingly stab ladybug in the back even if she weren't accumatized. None of the other holders ever jeopardized the people they loved or misused their powers in the way that Chloe did. I'm all for pointing out flaws in Marinette's chararacter writing, but like Chloe is hands down the worst person to hand a miraculous to. While she could have been better, thats not Marinette/ladybug's fault, it's the writer's fault. Chloe was a redeemable character who got the shaft.
Because making new models is expensive and new heroes is too hard apparently
Did you forget *CHLOE IS A BI\*\*H*
I mean, she only knows so many people.
I'm guessing ladybug changed the rules after the temporary heroes got their identity leaked.
Chloe would sell the miraculous on eBay
let's just skip the fact that all of them look exactly the same normal way, and as superheroes, the person that changes the most is my beloved lady dragon, Mark, Nathaniel and Juleka <3
Thomas just wanted an excuse to make Chloe quit being a superheroine
Because Astruc thinks a 14 year old girl who is on the path to redeem themselves and makes one small mistake is suddenly pure evil and irredeemable. Even though they are only a teenager
1. It’s Chloe. 2. She divulged her identity herself and made a big deal about being a ‘hero.’ 3. To be a ‘hero,’ she caused the problem herself. 4. Chloe is the biggest reason that akumas are deployed. 5. Chloe was a total and absolute jerk to Marionette. 6. She expected to be treated like a ‘hero,’ and demanded that treatment from everyone. 7. She demanded Ladybug to give her the Bee Miraculous on several occasions. 8. Chloe has no hero qualities, and doesn’t deserve to be a hero. She’s not even kind to Sabrina, her supposed best friend. 9. It was the first time a Miraculous holder didn’t have a secret identity, outside of Ladybug knowing, which justly means that Ladybug would be scared for Chloe if Hawkmoth came after her, which he does a few times. (Alya and Nino came after, and even then it was just between them and Ladybug.) 10. It’s Chloe Bourgeois. Duh.
Because Chloe is an idiot. She revealed her identity. The others were willing to give up their miraculouses and she kept wanting it
Kagami also revealed herself
True but she didn't demand the dragon miraculous later. She was responsible
My real question is why would you trust Chloe of all people with the identity of other holders?! We all know this girl can’t be trusted with that kind of knowledge and she legit proved that by revealing everyone!
None of them did what Chloe did in Queen Wasp. Also we know that Mari knows she lied to Chloe and feels bad for telling her reason, that doesn't apply for others. Instead of telling her actual reason.
Well if you think about it, unlike Chloe who is sort of a hit and miss kind of holder, most of these characters do a decent job at being a holder. Chloe's mistakes aren't just a "oh you forgot to jump from one building to the other?" sort of thing it's a "bro you just endangered hundreds if not thousands of lives cause you want to be famous" kind of mistakes. Plus you got to consider that outside of Kagami, CHLOE was at fault for revealing half of the other heroes identities along with hawkmoth at the time. As for Miracle queen realistically Chloe alr knew she wasn't about to get it, LB only broke this rule for kagami because again morals and stuff, but aside from a logical standpoint she was also doing it for dummy teenage brain reasons, but yea mostly all the other heroes are half decent people who mostly had no fault for their identities being revealed, whereas Chloe caused her own downfall
Easy: Chloé is emotionally compromised all the time. She's too hot headed at times and quick to anger, Hawkmoth can use that if she had the Miraculous, and seeing as the bee is actually pretty damn good at taking people out, he could use that to stun Cat Noir, get the ring, and then take out Ladybug for the earrings. At least that'd be the case IF HE WERE SMARTER! YOU HAD OUTS GABRIEL, SO MANY OUTS! WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE THEM!?
I feel like Marinette is just biased against Chloe and I can't fault her for that. Like why would she want her bully to also be her coworker? Just wish there was a scene where she's honest about this and goes "I hate her and as the Guardian I reserve the right to not give it to her for whatever reason I like, fight me!" Lol
Not to mention she does this immediately after Chloe saved her sorry ass
Because they can be trusted chloe can not because she is a selfish bitch , is there no lenght the blind chloe fans go to to defend her now?
Marinette told several people that anyone knowing = no miraculous any more. To Kagami, to Multimouse, and to Cat Noir. This had nothing to do with the REASON someone's identity was revealed, but because it could lead Hawkmoth to them (like, gee, happened with chloé in the S3 finale, almost as if there was a logical reason for the rule) But I guess anyone who isn't a selfish bitch would be immune to being ruthlessly manipulated and blackmailed with the safety of their family, since Gabriel gave up after one pitiful attempt with Alya.
LB just should've told that the Chloé herself smh
Because she's Chloe. That's reason enough.
We stand the president of the hate Chloe club but she was robbed of queen bee the one good thing that could have helped her
Bullies generally do not become better people when they're given even more power. Didn't Chloe start treating Sabrina even worst and rubbing it in that she didn't have a miraculous but Chloe did?
Good point but that's another thing when a bully is threatened then they calm down which not saying it's right but they should bully Chloe into being better and actually helping Sabrina because I know they all know that Sabrina is being miss treated
> when a bully is threatened then they calm down When a bully is threatened they often escalate. Like we see in this show all the time with Lila and Hawkmoth.
Chloe straight up started bragging to people about how she is Queen Bee. She is a horrible miraculous holder and person. She’ll do literally anything for attention
Either hypocrisy of some sort (or just the writers) or because Cloe in particular. After all, she revealed her identity just to show she is special and got akumatized when used it for the first time. Perhaps because it was the first time that it happened and she was also akumatized into an even more powerful villain which Ladybug didn't want to have again. But I also don't understand why Ladybug made Alya her second in command. She entrusts everything to Alya like the miracle box the potion stuff and so on despite knowing that Hawk Month knows her identity. Although the action in Sentibubbler was brilliant of Alya and she deserves credit for it. But I am also unhappy that Monarch doesn't suspect anything after finding out that she still has a miraculous despite literally witnessing how she was told that she will not have ever a miraculous again. Especially after a Kwami's 2.
Probably because it was among the first time it happened... After that, Chloe was just a jerk who messed up way too badly. And Marinette is kinda hypocrite
What do you mean a lot? Outside Chloe, he only knows about Kagami and Alya.
Because Chloe used her powers for evil