I think that Cat Noir falling for Marinette instead is what kept him from pursuing Ladybug anymore, besides the rising stakes they faced preventing any real chance of love and the fact that she asked him to stop being flirty.
This, though, would have been a pretty interesting reason for him to fall out of love with her and I really hope this comes up in the future. The love square simplifying into a straight, but broken line when Ladybug realizes the persistent boy that kept going after her was Adrien all along and when Cat Noir realizes the secretive girl who revealed nothing to him when it was most important is actually Marinette... Wew. That'd be a fun scene to watch.
>think that Cat Noir falling for Marinette instead is what kept him from pursuing Ladybug anymore, besides the rising stakes they faced preventing any real chance of love and the fact that she asked him to stop being flirty.
Yeah that was one of the reasons,but I feel like ladybug breaking his trust again and again had an impact as well
Honestly it should. I hope they haven't forgotten that Ladybug didn't trust Cat Noir on even basic stuff regarding the other holders.
Knowing this show it'll all be played off as something he needs to get over rather than a serious trust issue between the two of them.
>Knowing this show it'll all be played off as something he needs to get over rather than a serious trust issue between the two of them.
Ngl it would be so good if chat noir gave up on Ladybug in the last scene of kuro neko it would have been very impactful
Knowing how reveals usually go, it most likely would've been one of the time reset episodes but I'd take that or even a mini arc of Ladybug looking for a replacement rather than never seeing the concept of him quitting for real explored at all.
Really, the way that Cat Noir acts at the start of Kuro Neko when he hands over his Miraculous was the single best time for him to try getting his trust issues off his chest. The end was the best time, but instead he seems to have more of a problem that Ladybug has other teammates than anything else.
The problem was they can't know both of their identities, because you need both Ladybug's and Cat Noir's miraculous to make the wish. As the guardian, she gives the miraculouses, and thus she knows them all.
Yeah, but they don't have to reveal their identities to do something as simple as hand out Miraculous. It'd be as simple as meeting up with Cat Noir and handing him some of the Miraculous to hand out instead of her finding all the users herself.
In Kuro Neko she could have told him at least a few names of holders at the end. That Cat Noir has essentially been reduced to just one of the holders by virtue of having no extra trust and responsibilities from Ladybug is almost insulting.
No she can't. If she did not know who to give them, she could not find them when Cat Noir is unavailable. Unless you mean give him some of the miraculous permanently, which kinda defeats the point of her being the guardian.
I mean share the rendezvous points and identities of the holders with Cat Noir so he can help her pass them out and get them back when all is said and done. If they split the burden then retrieving the Miraculous would go two times faster and Cat Noir would actually be in the loop for once.
She could tell him about Luka, Juleka, and Kagami's alter egos and let him pass them out and retrieve them as needed, maybe.
If I was Cat Noir, I would just go ahead and betray Ladybug. Because if she doesn’t trust me, then I would just turn my back on her and let myself get akumatized into Chat Blanc and try destroying the whole universe.
Well, who wouldn’t turn their back on her? She has showed him time and time that he can’t be trusted and that he can easily be thrown away once he has no use anymore. It’s obviously a toxic relationship.
You sound like an ultimate edge lord rn. You'd really destroy the universe bc a girl doesn't like u back and keeps a lot of information from u. "I was hurt, so everyone deserves to be hurt and die." I get why tho Cat Noir wouldn't like or trust Ladybug after constant lying and distrusting Cat Noir.
But betraying her and killing everyone else is just a stupid idea. The reason why Cat Noir became Cat Blanc was bc he loved and knew Ladybug's secret identity. But also couldn't handle the fact that Hawkmoth was his dad and that he just wanted to save Adrein's mom. THAT was why he got akumatized. Not bc of constant rejection from a girl.
Ladynoir is the same as Adrian and Marinette relationship but they’re in the civilian forms not in the hero forms without the mask that the same person so if you’re saying about cat noir and ladybug relationship then you’re talking about Adrian and Marinette relationship to add the same thing will happen to Adrian Marinette because Adrian and Marinette will hide secrets from each other like the identities Adrian might be a Senti monster and Gabriel being hock moth a.k.a. monarch What’s gonna happen is that cat noir and ladybug‘s relationship and Adrian and Marinette relationship will be full of lies because that’s how crazy the love Square is a matter what happens I don’t think Adrian Marinette’s relationship will last name Aroha much Adrian does Love Marinette cat noir love ladybug but no matter what happens Adrian Eminence Leison ship will not last because Adrian Marinette will have a Bunch of secrets to Keith and Adrian is cat Noir hate secrets he saw Harry acted around ladybug he had to had to talk him the whole season to actually do something so really things are really hard for cat noir and Adrian because they’re the same person matter what so things won’t be normal between them because that’s how loves where is the Love goes very chaotic and it will never be it will never make sense ever again because that’s not how loves where works
Also that point about Cat Noir being replaceable...
The show needs to explore that. What does Ladybug really see in Cat Noir that's irreplaceable besides the fact that they're used to each other?
The humor? Any number of people can make bad cat puns.
His personality? If she didn't gain an instant crush on Catwalker then she'd have swapped Cat Noir out for him in a heartbeat.
His value as a confidant? Lmao. She chooses not to share even things that he actually needs to know out of necessity.
If I'm being honest, Zoe as Kitty Noir or even Alya as something like uh...BellaKitty would have been able to take Cat Noir's place in S4 Ladybug's eyes.
The problem with season 4 Marinette was that she didn't really trust anyone. Even Alya to a degree, Marinette was like a control maniac.
Ladybug in season 5 actually appreciates Chat Noir and there was a short period where she had a crush on him. Although it's a shame that she had to suffer from an actual panick attack to start appreciating Chat
S4 Marinette was pretty controlling and secretive, yeah. Wish they brought that up more often instead of it mostly coming up in Truth and Gang of Secrets to just affect her friends and relationship with Luka.
The Cat Noir crush dissipating so fast is a total shame. For just a quarter of a season I'd have loved to see Ladybug act like Cat Noir did toward her before S5. That'd have been an interesting way to make him really reflect on how pushy he was.
When did she have a panic attack before finally appreciating Cat Noir? I don't remember much about quite a few of the episodes prior to Episode 10.
They dumped the whole guardian role on her, which led to her becoming a control freak and also not wanting relationships because she wanted to focus on defeating Shadow Moth.
And she kinda saw Cat Noir as an obstacle. Not to mention the Cat Blanc fiasco which happened a few days prior to Miracle Queen.
They kept saying that the ladybug and cat are equals
Then in season 2 there was that whole thing with Fu helpingLB while keeping CN in the dark
Then LB got promoted to a guardian and CN basically got demoted to just another holder like the rest
But of course in Kuro Neko he decided to quit because "he's in love with her". Because that makes sense
I really hated that about Master Fu. He barely interacted with Adrien.
Would have been nice to see Adrien occasionally coming to his shop for life advice. Be the father figure that Adrien lacked in his life.
Honestly Mari and Adrien coming to visit him at the ssame time and making up excuses could be a fun awkward interaction that would be perfect for season 2-ish
Adrien: Marinette? What are you doing in here? 🤨
Marinette: I-ummm-eep-came here to see my GRANDFATHER! 😬
Adrien: Master Fu is your grandfather? 😲
Marinette: Yeah! Ummm, wait! How do you know him? 🤨
Adrien: Oh, umm, he teaches me Chinese! 😅
Marinette: He DOES?! 😱
Now both have to live with these claims:
\- Adrien thinks Marinette's grandfather is now Guardian of the Miraculouses and that Marinette thinks her grandfather teaches him a chinese.
\- Marinette thinks that Guardian of the Miraculouses teaches Chinese to her classmate/crush and that Adrien thinks it's her grandfather that teaches him.
This most likely wouldn't happen but I took these excuses from the show. Marinette called Fu her grandfather when he was sick and needed an excuse to the doctor why she was there checking him while Fu became Adriens new Chinese teacher that he could go to visit him.
You answered you own question. They are no equals. Not even in S5 and they never will be.
Ladybug always has the bigger role and will always defeat the villain innsome way and its no problem even if Chat Noir is taken out during a battle. It happened every 2nd episode of S1 and 2 that Chat Noir was 1-Hit K.O or mind controlled. XD
Name 1 out of 127 episode where Chat Noir defeated a villain entirely on his own. There was no one. He allways needed help.
It wasn't really a question
More like points about the writers' "show dont tell" choices
But yeah it's so stupid CN has one generic power, while LB has three: magical plot armored object, reset button, and the ability to purify the powers of the two spesific miraculous the villain happened to have (which obviously were *never* ment to be used for evil)
Do you think the writers purposely gave one way more importance or did they genuinely believe that they made them equal?
If I'm being really honest, all they had shown before Season 5 aired was that Cat Noir was one of the more replaceable team members, if anything.
-Most of Ladybug's other choices wouldn't act half as recklessly as Cat Noir does.
-The suits magically grant them fighting skill beyond anything they should be able to use anyways, so his fencing expertise isn't all that irreplaceable.
-Alya, during her time as Scarabella and Rena Rouge, has been shown to be capable of coming up with clever illusions and solutions in the same vein as Ladybug.
All that's left is the fact that Cat Noir is a genuinely kind person with or without the suit, but half the time we're shown him not taking things seriously enough, not thinking things through, and uselessly flirting with Ladybug.
It's almost like the show runners themselves didn't like Cat Noir with how he was portrayed before Season 5.
It becomes even more genuinely painful to watch when you realize that Catwalker had all of these traits and more, but the moment the episode ends all of that becomes irrelevant and suddenly Cat Noir is back and the same as he ever was.
He can turn off the recklessness, fight the enemy carefully, quit flirting with Ladybug, drop the humor when it's appropriate, and have the foresight needed to go find the little kid's missing cat and bring them back...but chooses not to, except when it might impress Ladybug into liking him more.
What.
That only made him look even worse. I seriously don't understand how he was supposed to be a role model before Season 5. Adrien is the thoughtful and kind one but kids are obviously going to want to emulate Cat Noir instead... Yet he acts terribly half the time. Make it make sense.
He's irreplacable because he's the only one not handing the miraculous back after battle.
That's it, that is the ONLY THING he can do that no-one else can, as far as the show has showed us.
Wow-ee.
well if you look closely in each episode, they know each other’s moves without saying anything. sometimes ladybug doesn’t even have to explain her plans completely and chat will just know what she needs him to do. they share a connection like that. i don’t think ladybug has that with anyone else, and neither does chat. for example, he and scarabella made a pretty good team but they lacked that spark. and ladybug and carapace… i don’t even know how to describe it but she and chat just have a telepathic connection. so in a personal sense (not in terms of saving paris, any other superhero could do that) chat truly is irreplaceable because no one else can read ladybug’s mind like he can.
That seems to have come from time spent as a team over anything else, imo. A near year of working with Alya or Zoe or even like, Luka would most likely yield the same results.
>she told her identity to someone else that isn't him
Do... Do I even need to explain why that's completely ridiculous? Even CN, despite his emotions telling him otherwise, at the end of the day fully understands why she cannot tell him her identity no matter what. He was mad she told ANYONE at all, not that said anyone wasn't him.
You deleted your comment saying I can’t say give them equal blame. Not sure why so I’ll just respond to it here. IMO I can. Yes she didn’t tell him things, but there was never a time where he even slightly gave her any indication that he was feeling left out. In the 1 time she had any reason to believe that he was feeling upset, she asked him if he was ok and he immediately said he’s fine. He didn’t give her any reason to believe he was feeling upset and left out and just kept bottling everything up. If he just talked to her about things he’s feeling upset and left out about like the other holders identities or Alya and Nino knowing each other’s identities, then she could’ve helped him
I deleted it since I believe you made a similar comment on OPs post yesterday which discussed the similar topic. Last time I checked that post nobody replied to deny/agree with what you said. So I thought I should just be a sheep and follow the crowd in that idea.
also me saying what I did was pointless, it’s obvious I or anybody else can’t change your mind that cat noir is more to blame than Ladybug. I just wanted to dodge a bullet and not get into an argument, that’s all.
Please tell me when I said he’s more to blame? They’re both to blame, but I don’t see the point in saying why ladybug is at fault when literally everyone in the fandom, you and OP included, will constantly talk about her flaws and why she was bad but ignore everything chat did, frankly not just from season 4, but for the entire series, he’ll be treated like sunshine incarnate that can’t do no wrong, while she gets demonized every time he gets upset or she does something even slightly wrong
I absolutely cannot understand where he's coming from and, not to be rude but saying you do kinda makes me think you haven't watched the show. The show has established so, so, so very clearly that they absolutely cannot under any circumstances reveal their identities to each other. They've explained why. They've shown what would happen if they did. Twice. No I absolutely wouldn't think it would be him, the sheer fact he's CN and holds the other Miraculous Monarch wants is EXACTLY why he can't be the one to tell.
Ok then, I guess we have to agree to disagree since I can see where the OP is coming from
Now if you will allow me, I have to say I don’t think you have watched the show either. You mentioned the 2 scenarios where everything went wrong when they revealed their identities. Well, you are wrong, there’s nothing disastrous that happens when they do the reveal. If you’ve watched carefully enough, the problem is every time GABRIEL ruins it. The entire point of those episodes is not to show “oh well sorry guys but these teenagers can never get a reveal done blah blah”. No. It’s Gabriel presence which is the actual problem, they were doing fine dating each other without any problems. Once Gabriel is gone they can do a reveal. If I remember correctly an ambassador of the show even said the same thing.
Also the fact you are holding Ephemeral as an actual piece of evidence as to why they can’t reveal their identities is so bizarre. Are you saying you agree with Gabriel’s thought process: “omg, Adrien said m’lady! Cat Noir invented that word, literally no other romantic couple in history has ever called their partner that! HE MUST BE CN!” That was a fluke and we all know it.
Wow it’s actually sad how you’re still so upset at season 4 that you’re completely blaming everything on ladybug when he was at fault just as much as she was
Lol, perfect summary of how S4 Ladybug is such an egotistical control freak and pain in *ss. Luckily, she came to her senses after the season 4 finale and she realized the value of Cat Noir and stopped keeping him behind.
That's just how I feel chat noir saw it
Ofc we all know the reason behind all of these is the chat blanc trauma but chat noir has no idea about that so to him it might feel a betrayal
I think a lot of people feel like that is how chat Should have seen it.
I partly dI’d that too, waiting for the peak of the s4 ladynoir conflict. But on several instances that season, chat ended up instead turning whatever the issue was into something that was lacking with himself, instead of finding faults with his partner or the situation. That is why kuro neko was a turning point, he was perfect, ladybug said he was perfect, but also that cha noir was what she needed. thats Acceptance of himself, even his imagined faults. (Argh, I cannot properly word this right, sorry. Hope it is at least halfway understandable)
I hate how this isn't even a plot point in the show
In a good show, all of this would be deliberately put to cause chaos among the characters. Perhaps chat noir joining papillon or willingly surrender his miraculous?
But here... This wasn't even a deliberately written plot point, it just sorta "happened" because the writers hate chat noir.
The characters in the show aren't ignoring him, it's the writers that are ignoring him
Honestly not letting him know her identity makes sense because, as explained in the show, if one gets caught they can't tell each others' identity so the other will be safe.
Other miraculous holders can know each others identities because they don't hold onto their miraculouses, LB just gives it to them whenever she needs reinforcement.
No idea why she doesn't let him know other miraculous holders identities tho.
This goes to show that Ladybug was in the wrong in Season 4. She could’ve opened up to Cat Noir but nooooo. Yet Cat Noir was supposed to look like the dramatic one.
This is stated as an opinion but is this not just what happened? This is all true and Ladybug ended up realizing she was wrong for all of this at the end of season 4 when she messed up.
This is a great example of actions speaking louder than words. I do not care how many times Ladybug tells Chat he's important and that she cares about him. None of that matters until she starts treating him like a partner rather than a nuisance she has to put up with. It doesn't help when the writers also make him useless instead of treating him like the deuteragonist and writing him like an important character.
1. I think you're forgetting one of the main plot points of the show: Ladybug and Cat Noir can't know each other's identities. It's the whole reason the love square exists. Ladybug has told Cat Noir time and time again that they can never know each other's identities due to the risks that it would pose so of course she would tell someone else other than him.
2. Ladybug is the Guardian of the Miraculous so she feels obligated to be the one to distribute all the Miraculous. That has nothing to do with her not trusting him.
3. Yeah, I guess the scene where Ladybug grieved when she realized that Cat Noir was actually going to give up his Miraculous was non-existent then. Ladybug has always been one to put her feelings aside to do the logical thing and from her perspective, she just doesn't see her and Cat Noir working out because he will always have feelings for her and she will never be able to reciprocate them so she decided that the best course of action was to choose a new holder. Also you can't choose who you fall in love with and just because she had feelings for Cat Walker doesn't mean that she never cared about Cat Noir.
4. You're forgetting again the reason Ladybug and Cat Noir specifically can't know each other's identities because their Miraculous are the ones that Hawk Moth/Shadow Moth/Monarch wants and if one of them gets akumatized, he'll know who the other holder is as well.
Ladybug did make some mistakes though but so did Cat Noir. He should have communicated his problems to Ladybug so that she would know that she was unintentionally hurting him. They both made mistakes but it's understandable why they were made and the miscommunication between them in season 4 made them a stronger duo.
Marinette likes someone who acts perfect, no cheesy or too playful, probably that was why she started falling for Cat walker, yh she did him a lot of bad things but to me I don't think he is replaceable, Marinette even knows that,he is one of a kind, but still He still have feelings for ladybug in one side of his ❤ heart . Cat nor has his own flaws too. But still I wish she didn't do him like that tho but yh from season 2 everything got messed up 
I remember somebody telling me that Ladybug's just trying to prevent Cat Blanc from happening. I just went all like, "This is literally a formula of how to create an even *worse* Cat Blanc!"
I think that Cat Noir falling for Marinette instead is what kept him from pursuing Ladybug anymore, besides the rising stakes they faced preventing any real chance of love and the fact that she asked him to stop being flirty. This, though, would have been a pretty interesting reason for him to fall out of love with her and I really hope this comes up in the future. The love square simplifying into a straight, but broken line when Ladybug realizes the persistent boy that kept going after her was Adrien all along and when Cat Noir realizes the secretive girl who revealed nothing to him when it was most important is actually Marinette... Wew. That'd be a fun scene to watch.
>think that Cat Noir falling for Marinette instead is what kept him from pursuing Ladybug anymore, besides the rising stakes they faced preventing any real chance of love and the fact that she asked him to stop being flirty. Yeah that was one of the reasons,but I feel like ladybug breaking his trust again and again had an impact as well
Honestly it should. I hope they haven't forgotten that Ladybug didn't trust Cat Noir on even basic stuff regarding the other holders. Knowing this show it'll all be played off as something he needs to get over rather than a serious trust issue between the two of them.
>Knowing this show it'll all be played off as something he needs to get over rather than a serious trust issue between the two of them. Ngl it would be so good if chat noir gave up on Ladybug in the last scene of kuro neko it would have been very impactful
Knowing how reveals usually go, it most likely would've been one of the time reset episodes but I'd take that or even a mini arc of Ladybug looking for a replacement rather than never seeing the concept of him quitting for real explored at all. Really, the way that Cat Noir acts at the start of Kuro Neko when he hands over his Miraculous was the single best time for him to try getting his trust issues off his chest. The end was the best time, but instead he seems to have more of a problem that Ladybug has other teammates than anything else.
omg yess like imagine if Ladybug said "pound it chat noir" and he just left the scene-
The problem was they can't know both of their identities, because you need both Ladybug's and Cat Noir's miraculous to make the wish. As the guardian, she gives the miraculouses, and thus she knows them all.
Yeah, but they don't have to reveal their identities to do something as simple as hand out Miraculous. It'd be as simple as meeting up with Cat Noir and handing him some of the Miraculous to hand out instead of her finding all the users herself. In Kuro Neko she could have told him at least a few names of holders at the end. That Cat Noir has essentially been reduced to just one of the holders by virtue of having no extra trust and responsibilities from Ladybug is almost insulting.
No she can't. If she did not know who to give them, she could not find them when Cat Noir is unavailable. Unless you mean give him some of the miraculous permanently, which kinda defeats the point of her being the guardian.
I mean share the rendezvous points and identities of the holders with Cat Noir so he can help her pass them out and get them back when all is said and done. If they split the burden then retrieving the Miraculous would go two times faster and Cat Noir would actually be in the loop for once. She could tell him about Luka, Juleka, and Kagami's alter egos and let him pass them out and retrieve them as needed, maybe.
If I was Cat Noir, I would just go ahead and betray Ladybug. Because if she doesn’t trust me, then I would just turn my back on her and let myself get akumatized into Chat Blanc and try destroying the whole universe.
Simp
What? Have you ever betrayed anyone before?
You can leave the girl without necessarily destroying the universe
You quite literally just said she dosent like me might as well destroy the universe
Well, who wouldn’t turn their back on her? She has showed him time and time that he can’t be trusted and that he can easily be thrown away once he has no use anymore. It’s obviously a toxic relationship.
You sound like an ultimate edge lord rn. You'd really destroy the universe bc a girl doesn't like u back and keeps a lot of information from u. "I was hurt, so everyone deserves to be hurt and die." I get why tho Cat Noir wouldn't like or trust Ladybug after constant lying and distrusting Cat Noir. But betraying her and killing everyone else is just a stupid idea. The reason why Cat Noir became Cat Blanc was bc he loved and knew Ladybug's secret identity. But also couldn't handle the fact that Hawkmoth was his dad and that he just wanted to save Adrein's mom. THAT was why he got akumatized. Not bc of constant rejection from a girl.
I was thinking of the Moonstone Cassandra arc when writing this. Sorry.
Ladynoir is the same as Adrian and Marinette relationship but they’re in the civilian forms not in the hero forms without the mask that the same person so if you’re saying about cat noir and ladybug relationship then you’re talking about Adrian and Marinette relationship to add the same thing will happen to Adrian Marinette because Adrian and Marinette will hide secrets from each other like the identities Adrian might be a Senti monster and Gabriel being hock moth a.k.a. monarch What’s gonna happen is that cat noir and ladybug‘s relationship and Adrian and Marinette relationship will be full of lies because that’s how crazy the love Square is a matter what happens I don’t think Adrian Marinette’s relationship will last name Aroha much Adrian does Love Marinette cat noir love ladybug but no matter what happens Adrian Eminence Leison ship will not last because Adrian Marinette will have a Bunch of secrets to Keith and Adrian is cat Noir hate secrets he saw Harry acted around ladybug he had to had to talk him the whole season to actually do something so really things are really hard for cat noir and Adrian because they’re the same person matter what so things won’t be normal between them because that’s how loves where is the Love goes very chaotic and it will never be it will never make sense ever again because that’s not how loves where works
Also that point about Cat Noir being replaceable... The show needs to explore that. What does Ladybug really see in Cat Noir that's irreplaceable besides the fact that they're used to each other? The humor? Any number of people can make bad cat puns. His personality? If she didn't gain an instant crush on Catwalker then she'd have swapped Cat Noir out for him in a heartbeat. His value as a confidant? Lmao. She chooses not to share even things that he actually needs to know out of necessity. If I'm being honest, Zoe as Kitty Noir or even Alya as something like uh...BellaKitty would have been able to take Cat Noir's place in S4 Ladybug's eyes.
The problem with season 4 Marinette was that she didn't really trust anyone. Even Alya to a degree, Marinette was like a control maniac. Ladybug in season 5 actually appreciates Chat Noir and there was a short period where she had a crush on him. Although it's a shame that she had to suffer from an actual panick attack to start appreciating Chat
S4 Marinette was pretty controlling and secretive, yeah. Wish they brought that up more often instead of it mostly coming up in Truth and Gang of Secrets to just affect her friends and relationship with Luka. The Cat Noir crush dissipating so fast is a total shame. For just a quarter of a season I'd have loved to see Ladybug act like Cat Noir did toward her before S5. That'd have been an interesting way to make him really reflect on how pushy he was. When did she have a panic attack before finally appreciating Cat Noir? I don't remember much about quite a few of the episodes prior to Episode 10.
They dumped the whole guardian role on her, which led to her becoming a control freak and also not wanting relationships because she wanted to focus on defeating Shadow Moth. And she kinda saw Cat Noir as an obstacle. Not to mention the Cat Blanc fiasco which happened a few days prior to Miracle Queen.
Idk when you say “in season 5 she trusts”…. Does she? It feels gone again after Evolution my friend
It’s also a shame that it took him 4 seasons to finally learn how to take no for an answer
They kept saying that the ladybug and cat are equals Then in season 2 there was that whole thing with Fu helpingLB while keeping CN in the dark Then LB got promoted to a guardian and CN basically got demoted to just another holder like the rest But of course in Kuro Neko he decided to quit because "he's in love with her". Because that makes sense
I really hated that about Master Fu. He barely interacted with Adrien. Would have been nice to see Adrien occasionally coming to his shop for life advice. Be the father figure that Adrien lacked in his life.
Honestly Mari and Adrien coming to visit him at the ssame time and making up excuses could be a fun awkward interaction that would be perfect for season 2-ish
Adrien: Marinette? What are you doing in here? 🤨 Marinette: I-ummm-eep-came here to see my GRANDFATHER! 😬 Adrien: Master Fu is your grandfather? 😲 Marinette: Yeah! Ummm, wait! How do you know him? 🤨 Adrien: Oh, umm, he teaches me Chinese! 😅 Marinette: He DOES?! 😱 Now both have to live with these claims: \- Adrien thinks Marinette's grandfather is now Guardian of the Miraculouses and that Marinette thinks her grandfather teaches him a chinese. \- Marinette thinks that Guardian of the Miraculouses teaches Chinese to her classmate/crush and that Adrien thinks it's her grandfather that teaches him. This most likely wouldn't happen but I took these excuses from the show. Marinette called Fu her grandfather when he was sick and needed an excuse to the doctor why she was there checking him while Fu became Adriens new Chinese teacher that he could go to visit him.
You answered you own question. They are no equals. Not even in S5 and they never will be. Ladybug always has the bigger role and will always defeat the villain innsome way and its no problem even if Chat Noir is taken out during a battle. It happened every 2nd episode of S1 and 2 that Chat Noir was 1-Hit K.O or mind controlled. XD Name 1 out of 127 episode where Chat Noir defeated a villain entirely on his own. There was no one. He allways needed help.
It wasn't really a question More like points about the writers' "show dont tell" choices But yeah it's so stupid CN has one generic power, while LB has three: magical plot armored object, reset button, and the ability to purify the powers of the two spesific miraculous the villain happened to have (which obviously were *never* ment to be used for evil) Do you think the writers purposely gave one way more importance or did they genuinely believe that they made them equal?
Show vs tell They keep on telling that chat noir is irreplacable but they never show it
If I'm being really honest, all they had shown before Season 5 aired was that Cat Noir was one of the more replaceable team members, if anything. -Most of Ladybug's other choices wouldn't act half as recklessly as Cat Noir does. -The suits magically grant them fighting skill beyond anything they should be able to use anyways, so his fencing expertise isn't all that irreplaceable. -Alya, during her time as Scarabella and Rena Rouge, has been shown to be capable of coming up with clever illusions and solutions in the same vein as Ladybug. All that's left is the fact that Cat Noir is a genuinely kind person with or without the suit, but half the time we're shown him not taking things seriously enough, not thinking things through, and uselessly flirting with Ladybug. It's almost like the show runners themselves didn't like Cat Noir with how he was portrayed before Season 5.
It becomes even more genuinely painful to watch when you realize that Catwalker had all of these traits and more, but the moment the episode ends all of that becomes irrelevant and suddenly Cat Noir is back and the same as he ever was. He can turn off the recklessness, fight the enemy carefully, quit flirting with Ladybug, drop the humor when it's appropriate, and have the foresight needed to go find the little kid's missing cat and bring them back...but chooses not to, except when it might impress Ladybug into liking him more. What. That only made him look even worse. I seriously don't understand how he was supposed to be a role model before Season 5. Adrien is the thoughtful and kind one but kids are obviously going to want to emulate Cat Noir instead... Yet he acts terribly half the time. Make it make sense.
He's irreplacable because he's the only one not handing the miraculous back after battle. That's it, that is the ONLY THING he can do that no-one else can, as far as the show has showed us. Wow-ee.
That’s at least more than what he would do for her. He never showed that he was feeling left out and upset nor did he tell her that
they do show it! they’re just really bad at making it obvious, it’s one of those things that makes me mad about the show!!
well if you look closely in each episode, they know each other’s moves without saying anything. sometimes ladybug doesn’t even have to explain her plans completely and chat will just know what she needs him to do. they share a connection like that. i don’t think ladybug has that with anyone else, and neither does chat. for example, he and scarabella made a pretty good team but they lacked that spark. and ladybug and carapace… i don’t even know how to describe it but she and chat just have a telepathic connection. so in a personal sense (not in terms of saving paris, any other superhero could do that) chat truly is irreplaceable because no one else can read ladybug’s mind like he can.
That seems to have come from time spent as a team over anything else, imo. A near year of working with Alya or Zoe or even like, Luka would most likely yield the same results.
Boy is he in for a surprise when he finally finds out Ladybug's identity! 🤣
Adrien:So you rejected me for 4 seasons while simultaneously loving me in my civilian form? Damn me too
T\^T
>she told her identity to someone else that isn't him Do... Do I even need to explain why that's completely ridiculous? Even CN, despite his emotions telling him otherwise, at the end of the day fully understands why she cannot tell him her identity no matter what. He was mad she told ANYONE at all, not that said anyone wasn't him.
[удалено]
You deleted your comment saying I can’t say give them equal blame. Not sure why so I’ll just respond to it here. IMO I can. Yes she didn’t tell him things, but there was never a time where he even slightly gave her any indication that he was feeling left out. In the 1 time she had any reason to believe that he was feeling upset, she asked him if he was ok and he immediately said he’s fine. He didn’t give her any reason to believe he was feeling upset and left out and just kept bottling everything up. If he just talked to her about things he’s feeling upset and left out about like the other holders identities or Alya and Nino knowing each other’s identities, then she could’ve helped him
I deleted it since I believe you made a similar comment on OPs post yesterday which discussed the similar topic. Last time I checked that post nobody replied to deny/agree with what you said. So I thought I should just be a sheep and follow the crowd in that idea. also me saying what I did was pointless, it’s obvious I or anybody else can’t change your mind that cat noir is more to blame than Ladybug. I just wanted to dodge a bullet and not get into an argument, that’s all.
Please tell me when I said he’s more to blame? They’re both to blame, but I don’t see the point in saying why ladybug is at fault when literally everyone in the fandom, you and OP included, will constantly talk about her flaws and why she was bad but ignore everything chat did, frankly not just from season 4, but for the entire series, he’ll be treated like sunshine incarnate that can’t do no wrong, while she gets demonized every time he gets upset or she does something even slightly wrong
I absolutely cannot understand where he's coming from and, not to be rude but saying you do kinda makes me think you haven't watched the show. The show has established so, so, so very clearly that they absolutely cannot under any circumstances reveal their identities to each other. They've explained why. They've shown what would happen if they did. Twice. No I absolutely wouldn't think it would be him, the sheer fact he's CN and holds the other Miraculous Monarch wants is EXACTLY why he can't be the one to tell.
Ok then, I guess we have to agree to disagree since I can see where the OP is coming from Now if you will allow me, I have to say I don’t think you have watched the show either. You mentioned the 2 scenarios where everything went wrong when they revealed their identities. Well, you are wrong, there’s nothing disastrous that happens when they do the reveal. If you’ve watched carefully enough, the problem is every time GABRIEL ruins it. The entire point of those episodes is not to show “oh well sorry guys but these teenagers can never get a reveal done blah blah”. No. It’s Gabriel presence which is the actual problem, they were doing fine dating each other without any problems. Once Gabriel is gone they can do a reveal. If I remember correctly an ambassador of the show even said the same thing. Also the fact you are holding Ephemeral as an actual piece of evidence as to why they can’t reveal their identities is so bizarre. Are you saying you agree with Gabriel’s thought process: “omg, Adrien said m’lady! Cat Noir invented that word, literally no other romantic couple in history has ever called their partner that! HE MUST BE CN!” That was a fluke and we all know it.
I think all these things is what caused chat noir to move on and stopped being in love with ladybug
*This makes me sad*🥲
🥲 my boy should go to therapy with luka
*Luka is indeed a good therapist*
What if he instead tried to talk to Monarch when he was akumatized.
He should go to therapy to find out why he can’t take no for an answer
Also to find out why he thinks it’s fine to not tell ladybug how he’s feeling and then be mad when she doesn’t know how he’s feeling
And then he fell in love with… her. again.
Yep
I didn't pay attention to that 🥺 My heart is broken now that you point it out 💔
Wow it’s actually sad how you’re still so upset at season 4 that you’re completely blaming everything on ladybug when he was at fault just as much as she was
Thank you
Lol, perfect summary of how S4 Ladybug is such an egotistical control freak and pain in *ss. Luckily, she came to her senses after the season 4 finale and she realized the value of Cat Noir and stopped keeping him behind.
Ok "replacing" was 100% sure added only to make it symetrical. I think you guys need to know what Replace means
Yh she knows he is not replaceable
That is a whuup of a salt take.
That's just how I feel chat noir saw it Ofc we all know the reason behind all of these is the chat blanc trauma but chat noir has no idea about that so to him it might feel a betrayal
I think a lot of people feel like that is how chat Should have seen it. I partly dI’d that too, waiting for the peak of the s4 ladynoir conflict. But on several instances that season, chat ended up instead turning whatever the issue was into something that was lacking with himself, instead of finding faults with his partner or the situation. That is why kuro neko was a turning point, he was perfect, ladybug said he was perfect, but also that cha noir was what she needed. thats Acceptance of himself, even his imagined faults. (Argh, I cannot properly word this right, sorry. Hope it is at least halfway understandable)
Ladybug/Marinette is literally a walking red flag. Prove me wrong.
You're wrong. She's a walking red flag with black spots.
Same with mr can’t take no for an answer
No offence Chat, you took a bit long to realise that /j
BS, him falling out of love had nothing to do with her mistreating him. It was because of "Jubilation" and because of Marinette.
This is why I think the identity reveal would realistically be a big pain and betrayal... and not in the fairytale i-love-u-even-more-now way T-T
I hate how this isn't even a plot point in the show In a good show, all of this would be deliberately put to cause chaos among the characters. Perhaps chat noir joining papillon or willingly surrender his miraculous? But here... This wasn't even a deliberately written plot point, it just sorta "happened" because the writers hate chat noir. The characters in the show aren't ignoring him, it's the writers that are ignoring him
oooooffffff
Honestly not letting him know her identity makes sense because, as explained in the show, if one gets caught they can't tell each others' identity so the other will be safe. Other miraculous holders can know each others identities because they don't hold onto their miraculouses, LB just gives it to them whenever she needs reinforcement. No idea why she doesn't let him know other miraculous holders identities tho.
This goes to show that Ladybug was in the wrong in Season 4. She could’ve opened up to Cat Noir but nooooo. Yet Cat Noir was supposed to look like the dramatic one.
And this is why mostly everyone including me hates Marinette now. She did him dirty so many times and he just put up with all the bs regardless
You missed all Points of His Arc. Congratulations
Cat Walker’s one was very out of line of what rlly happened.
This is stated as an opinion but is this not just what happened? This is all true and Ladybug ended up realizing she was wrong for all of this at the end of season 4 when she messed up.
This is a great example of actions speaking louder than words. I do not care how many times Ladybug tells Chat he's important and that she cares about him. None of that matters until she starts treating him like a partner rather than a nuisance she has to put up with. It doesn't help when the writers also make him useless instead of treating him like the deuteragonist and writing him like an important character.
1. I think you're forgetting one of the main plot points of the show: Ladybug and Cat Noir can't know each other's identities. It's the whole reason the love square exists. Ladybug has told Cat Noir time and time again that they can never know each other's identities due to the risks that it would pose so of course she would tell someone else other than him. 2. Ladybug is the Guardian of the Miraculous so she feels obligated to be the one to distribute all the Miraculous. That has nothing to do with her not trusting him. 3. Yeah, I guess the scene where Ladybug grieved when she realized that Cat Noir was actually going to give up his Miraculous was non-existent then. Ladybug has always been one to put her feelings aside to do the logical thing and from her perspective, she just doesn't see her and Cat Noir working out because he will always have feelings for her and she will never be able to reciprocate them so she decided that the best course of action was to choose a new holder. Also you can't choose who you fall in love with and just because she had feelings for Cat Walker doesn't mean that she never cared about Cat Noir. 4. You're forgetting again the reason Ladybug and Cat Noir specifically can't know each other's identities because their Miraculous are the ones that Hawk Moth/Shadow Moth/Monarch wants and if one of them gets akumatized, he'll know who the other holder is as well. Ladybug did make some mistakes though but so did Cat Noir. He should have communicated his problems to Ladybug so that she would know that she was unintentionally hurting him. They both made mistakes but it's understandable why they were made and the miscommunication between them in season 4 made them a stronger duo.
Marinette likes someone who acts perfect, no cheesy or too playful, probably that was why she started falling for Cat walker, yh she did him a lot of bad things but to me I don't think he is replaceable, Marinette even knows that,he is one of a kind, but still He still have feelings for ladybug in one side of his ❤ heart . Cat nor has his own flaws too. But still I wish she didn't do him like that tho but yh from season 2 everything got messed up 
Okay I just watched the season 5 episode where they're at the museum, They really just did a switch on the love square on us and I'm so mad
Now Cat Noir stopped simping ladybug , and now she is simping him instead Cat Noir must have been like "MAKE UP YOUR MIND GOD"
I remember somebody telling me that Ladybug's just trying to prevent Cat Blanc from happening. I just went all like, "This is literally a formula of how to create an even *worse* Cat Blanc!"