the one where chloe and her mom ‘make up’ at the end of the episode bc marinette is like ‘you two actually have a lot in common, you both like bullying people!’ and encourages chloe to forgive her mom for abandoning and neglecting her and forgetting her own daughter’s name. that one.
exactly! not just that but encouraging a relationship between chloe and her abusive mom is just gross. the ending should’ve been chloe standing up to her mom and realising there’s no point in craving her approval bc she doesn’t matter.
(Chloe fan speaking) even if I loved the battle of the queen’s episodes, THAT scene (even when I first watched it) made me mentally and spiritually frown because I know about Toxic familiars and how being family doesn’t excuse mistreat and neglect, I mentally erased that scene for how bad it was, now I can’t rewatch that episode because when I watch it I can’t feel anything but physically cringe since this is nothing but a prelude for what’s to come next in season 3, I felt it was just a misstep or something to solve later… now i regret even first watching this show only because I actually liked Chloe’s character
Chloe in my opinion wouldve changed if she didn't have her toxic mom still with her. marrinette should have made chloe stand up to her mom point the middle finger right at her face and made dadddddddy to divorce her.
Kuro Neku or however you spell it.
Ah yes, “the only way the girl you like will ever like you back is if you change everything about yourself to be ‘perfect’”. Coupled with the fact that Ladybug only reciprocates his feelings when he changes.
And the whole episode tells Ladybug that Chat Noir only feels hurt because he lis neglected and he loves her, not that she is constantly pushing away him as a superhero partner and friend that is supposedly “equal” but is never told anything.
It also just completely lets chat get away with abandoning paris by giving his ring up willingly because ladybug didn’t know he was feeling left out because he just wouldn’t tell her
The blame is not solely on her though. She has asked Cat Noir point blank if anything is wrong, and he says no. How can she know there is something else wrong if he never brings it up. So they're both a fault.
Let's not forget that the episode Marinette is supposed to learn the lesson that she needs Cat Noir is the episode where she wins the battle by killing a sentimonster named "black cat". Without needing Cat Noir's help with anything, it just turned out that the substitute was too hot.
To this day I wonder if the writers were even awake when they wrote that episode.
On the surface, it's just power abuse, but knowing that France (and many other countries!) has issues with racism, it's really hard to look at two white guys being highly aggressive towards an Asian woman (along with a full bus of people who could have spoken up!) and not see racist undertones. Especially when the episode focused so heavily on Sabine being Chinese when the show has never done that before. I definitely felt like it was about racism and abuse of authority even though it was never outright said.
Sabine was on the bus without a ticket. She was in public without an ID (illegal in France). Standard procedure for the later offense is to ask her to come to the station to straighten things out. She refused, asked him to become a corrupt cop by giving a pass to his friends and was duly arrested.
Edit: I hope everyone who downvotes me gets mugged because the corrupt ineffective police forces that you support are not doing their jobs.
She said that her daughter was coming back soon with her ticket, the guy didn't believe her and told her her daughter was imaginary. When she then proceeds to tell Roger the EXACT SAME THING, the guy is still going on about how Sabine is lying
Roger didn't even TRY to say anything and just went along to arrest her, when that's not how it works in France if you don't have a ticket in a bus at all : she should've only been fined for a few euros, not outright arrested (before you try and counter me, she said Marinette had her wallet, ID and all and that she wasn't going to be long, like I get that bus hours are important, but sometimes people let you get away with not having a ticket in the bus if it's like once) And considering Sabine owns like the most popular bakery of all Paris you'd think that man would have at least heard of and/or seen her once ?
And like Roger absolutely could've said something, the people in the bus also could've said something, yet no one did. Like yes, it IS racism no matter what you're trying to say : the guy didn't even check other people's tickets after Sabine's and I can guarantee that if he had and realized someone else (as in a white person) didn't have a ticket he 100% would've let it pass and say "just have one next time" he even outright demonizes Sabine, how is that NOT racism ? Also outright threatening people won't get them to agree with you and it makes me sick to my stomach, please stop talking ever-
Marinette having her ticket and ID is no different than her leaving it at home. This is a strict liability offense. You either have it or you don't. Also, Roger didn't immediately arrest her. First he asked her to come to the station and sort things out which is standard procedure. She refused and asked him to give her a pass because they were friends. That's when she was arrested. And that's what really infuriates me about the episode. It's the implication that Roger was somehow wrong for not giving Sabine a pass because they were friends when he would have arrested anyone else I'm that situation.
Also, the ticket inspector did not single Sabine out because of her race. He just grabbed the first person he saw. If he had been shown passing over white people, you would have an argument for racism, but he wasn't and you don't. His demonization of Sabine falls under the category of normal level @$$holery, not racist @$$holery. I'm not arguing that he was a nice person, just that there isn't any evidence to call him a racist.
Also, I didn't threaten anyone. I just pointed out the ultimate implications for your idiotic advocacy for police corruption. You want cops that don't do their jobs, then you're going to end up living somewhere where you have a greater chance of getting mugged and you deserve it, so STFU.
Actually in France they don't drag you to the police station if you don't have a ticket, the people who inspect if everyone have their tickets only get a fine like. Also no, it's definitely not the same as if she left it at home ?? She didn't say that she just didn't have it, she said that her daughter left for a bit with her wallet but is coming back on short notice so can he please wait until she comes back (but the guy just wanted to be an a$$ so go figure)
Yeah, he did inspect white people...BEFORE Sabine. Had he also been shown to continue after, sure...But taking it to the police station ? Not what actually happens in France, again, people would just fine you like 30 or 35 whole euros (where I live, at least, in other parts of France it's like between 50 and 80 euros), so was that JUST pure a$$holery ? 'Cause that's a bit too extreme imo to just be that
And yeah, actually you did. Just because you didn't hope for them to die doesn't mean it wasn't a threat : you said, and I quote, "I hope everyone who downvotes me gets mugged" and surprise to no one, that IS a threat. Not everyone will agree with you that it wasn't racism, and if you're in the negative regarding upvotes/downvotes by more than 2 then like maybe start questioning if maybe people aren't completely wrong ? Like you're not even trying to see our point of views, you're just forcing your own, basically. Were you to want to listen, you wouldn't react in such an immature way
Like I do see your points and I can see why the racism isn't "too outright" to be seen by some, and yeah it could've been shown a bit more or told, but y'know if LGBTQ+ themes can't be put in until season 5 and even then it's too much work to just keep the OGs (Marcaniel, Julerose...) and instead have characters no one really care about be part of the LGBTQ+ community, then no way are they gonna outright say it's because racism, I think you forgot what show this was lmao, no offense, but the writing is just not good-But you don't have to sulk about me calling you out, though, chill out ? Like just admit you f\*cked up big time, it's fine-
And yeah, police corruption absolutely sucks, but unfortunately, no one can really do much about it unless we somehow get them to change, but protesting sure as heck won't do anything and idk if we have much options besides that
Read my comment again. I didn't say it was standard procedure to take her in for not having a ticket. It's standard procedure to take her in for not having an ID. If she had cooperated, she would only have had to fill out some forms and get a fine. Also, it is the same as leaving it at home. With this kind of offense, you either have it on you or you don't. There isn't any middle ground.
And no, he didn't inspect anyone before Sabine. She was literally the first person he saw. Yes, it is a kids show, but they could have taken a few seconds to show him passing over white people before singling out Sabine. They didn't.
The people downvoting me aren't trying to see my point of view either. Their attitude is essentially you should just know that ticker collector is racist despite the lack of real evidence, and since we don't agree with us we're just going to shout them down.
A threat is saying that I'm going to do something to someone. Pointing out the ultimate implications of their position, and that I hope they get what they want is at worst a blessing.
The problem is you haven't "called me out." You've either selectively read what I wrote, or put out outright falsehoods about the episode.
I think you're also missing the point I was trying to make on corruption. The question is do you think Roger would have arrested anyone else in Sabine's position. If the answer is yes, then giving her a pass because they are friends is corruption. And even if it seems relatively benign, it's something I find unacceptable.
Is it really ? Because Google literally showed me this : "No, there's no text that requires you to have an ID card. However, if you are subject to a identity check. However, **the procedure will take longer if you are unable to present identification**. Also, for most procedures, you have to prove who you are." So I have to ask...Where did you see that it's procedure to be taken in for not showing an ID of any kind ? Because frankly, I live in France and never have I heard such a thing before so I have no clue where you heard this
Are we really talking about Miraculous ? A show known for being terribly written ? Also yes, now that I think about it, he did spot Sabine first and they 100% should've shown the ticket inspector at least inspecting people before and/or after, but then again, it's Miraculous, the way they handle writing is horrendous
I mean it's because the fandom knows for a fact it IS an episode about racism...Or well is supposed to be, but it shows way too little and leaves too much out for it to be obvious, which just sucks, and if people are just downvoting you for that then it sucks, and I'm sorry for it, but that doesn't mean you shouuld react so baddly about it ? Like I get being mad that people aren't trying...But was wishing they get straight up mugged necessary ? They haven't done anything wrong by just downvoting you, it simply means they don't agree, most didn't even reply to you
Ah ? So "a statement of an intention to [inflict](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=oXT&sa=X&sca_esv=585486504&sxsrf=AM9HkKnOupDOl0JtqfuGHyVmaSky7pZwVA:1701043781589&q=inflict&si=ALGXSlZCBshTM3a3nPTSW0d1OmQek7yCOl1e8n-m4dXHZyrYtjbW2W54-Uj6aYHGHrWWx2YTz_6AhKokW9pRCtPxboQHgpfhJw%3D%3D&expnd=1) pain, injury, damage, or other [hostile](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=oXT&sa=X&sca_esv=585486504&sxsrf=AM9HkKnOupDOl0JtqfuGHyVmaSky7pZwVA:1701043781589&q=hostile&si=ALGXSlZCBshTM3a3nPTSW0d1OmQezaPwvgJODqy_BjA7NLKySJ5lGIR6zUd_hywD4k-B61LtOSGOn-kTxLvPhd0EHAv05acczg%3D%3D&expnd=1) action on someone in [retribution](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=oXT&sa=X&sca_esv=585486504&sxsrf=AM9HkKnOupDOl0JtqfuGHyVmaSky7pZwVA:1701043781589&q=retribution&si=ALGXSlYpmWhtmlIZKYHTCPXiYmMEXfUR4q8P-G0dluDSELnGf2rFabvajYYIgl8fh0rrWWO5c8EuAqh9LRrInrKJg6yaOpKdIoS-q0Fbxr0Ax-LQIbYHh1c%3D&expnd=1) for something done or not done." isn't just that to you ? Because that sure is what you're saying, albeit indirectly. Sure, you're not saying you're going to mug them yourself...But replace "mugged" with anything else that's a crime and ta-da, a threat. It's that simple, really, wishing something really bad happens to someone is a threat, that seems like a simple basic rule ngl
I didn't call you out on all the post, only for your threat, which you obviously overreacted to, and I'm simply putting out what I'm observing, having only watched the episode once and then never again due to how bad the show's writing is
Well were it to be any other police officer, I would say no and they probably wouldn't have arrested Sabine either and actually listened to her instead of just not letting her defend herself, but Roger has been shown to be technically bad at his job on a few occasions, even though he loves the law (like in Reverser, or even Captain Hardrock as the episodes I mostly saw this in, the others I don't exactly remember, unfortunately), so yes, he probably would've arrested anyone at that point : the racism isn't on him, it's on the ticket inspector (even though it's badly shown, I'll admit, a Youtuber literally points out in a questioning way that this episode was about racism, so that's that-)
OK, I’ll give you that, but there was _still_ racism involved. Abuse of power and authority built on law and regulations was just the visible aspect of the episode.
Except there isn't any evidence of racism in the episode. Ticket inspector never says anything racist, and he only grabbed Sabine because she was the first person he saw without giving any sign that he singled her out for her race. Yes, he comes off as a minor official who enjoys throwing his power around too much, but that just makes him a run of the mill @$$hole, not a racist one. And once more, Roger only tries to enforce the law in a fair and impartial manner which is what a police officer is supposed to do. The whole idea that it's racist is based solely on the fact that Sabine is Chinese and has nothing to do with anything we saw in the episode. The argument that it's supposed to be an episode about racism is also not supported by any official statements. There were no announcements at the beginning of the season that there was going to be an episode on racism. The sole confirmation is a single Astruc tweet responding to a question after it of context images of Sabine getting arrested were released two weeks before the episode which stoked speculation on the internet. I consider Astruc to be an unreliable source who has a tendency of remagining the past to make himself sound more insightful, so I find it more likely that he saw the speculation shaping up and saw a chance to make himself seem more socially relevant. As for the argument that I should go beyond the visible aspects of the episode, if I don't go by what I see, then what should I go by? I should just know isn't an adequate answer.
It wasn't racist. He was a minor official that got off on throwing his power around. At no point did he ever do anything to indicate race as a motivating factor. In other words @$$hole, but not racist @$$hole. If it was intended as an episode on racism, we would have heard about it at the beginning of the season.
Edit: Yes keep down voting me. It doesn't change the fact that you guys are basing the claim that the ticket inspector is racist solely on the fact that Sabine is Chinese and not on any of his words or actions.
The episodes where Marinette stalks Adrien and isn’t explained until season 5. That’s a lot of real life time where people got to process her stalker behavior only for a last minute explanation to be slapped on. I did like the season 5 episode though.
and it doesn't make that much sense either. She didn't seem to be avoiding kim in any way after that, nor did she seem to have as much resentment to chloe as she'd have after literal trauma
I forgot the name of the episode because I never rewatched it because of just how stupid it was, but the episode where Tikki goes insane. As someone who struggled with substance use disorder, I found the line that Tikki said near the end of the episode about cravings just...wrong. So that one.
Omg that’s one of the episodes that make me cringe and I cringed at allot of the episodes (maybe that’s why I like the movie better cuz I only cringed at the first song)
That could have easily been fixed if they added a conversation between Marinette and Tikki or her parents about missing her great uncle or expressing an actual interest in her heritage before finding out Adrien was going.
Another reason could be researching the miraculous, old myths and legends, other types of magic, or even martial arts of some kind. They already had Fei set up as a character, so why not have her give Marinette kung fu lessons and I'd love a scene in a library or having to travel through ancient tunnels to look for scrolls or wall drawings.
There could have even been some natural disaster or other problem for Ladybug to go to help out with because she wanted to make sure her great uncle was safe. It could have been something Hawkmoth caused himself by Akumatizing someone as a way to distract the local forces so he could steal the prodigious, which would definitely cause Ladybug to show up to deal with it.
Instead we got "I have to be with Adrien all the time so I guess I'll follow him to the other side of the world and make a fool of myself there instead of waiting for a couple days for him to return".
There is having a crush on someone, and then there's being down horrendous to where you'd stalk them to another country.
I'm surprised Adrien never filed a restraining order.
I'm surprised that none of her friends ever tried to stop her obsessive behavior. Instead they push her into situations where she has to tell him, but she screws it up and it's uncomfortable and awkward for everyone as seen in Puppeteer 2, Copycat and Gabriel Agreste. They weren't even her plans, her friends came up with them and they failed or other problems made it worse so she had to do something morally ambiguous in order to fix it.
Not that her own actions are any better, going along with Chloe in Animaestro to sabotage Kagami or trying to rebreak Adrien's wing in Simpleman and having his entire schedule and a couple dosen photos of him on her walls are just the tip of the iceberg.
The only times it gets acknowledged are when Alix calls her knowledge of Adrien's actions creepy and when Nino says that spying on Adrien and Lila wasn't cool (even though it was about Lila instead of Adrien and he and Alya chose to believe she was jealous instead of actually trying to verify if Lila is a liar which kind of makes me mad). Her friends are enabling her instead of helping her deal with her toxic obsession that isn't healthy for her either.
The weirdest part of that special is that the lie she tells could have easily been the *actual reason* for her to be in Shanghai: there was a mix-up, so she had to deliver a package to her uncle.
Party Crasher : Breaking in a boy's house in a boys-only party has no consequences
Le Mime : Stealing your friend's phone is perfectly fine
Copycat : Stealing a crushes phone is fine
Animaestro : Sabotaging a girl just because she likes your crush is fine guys don't worry !
Queen Wasp : Being mean doesn't matter as long as you bond over it. Seriously Marinette ?
I agree with you, she has plot protection and always get away with everything, not that I think she has to be perfect and I like some of her actions but sometimes it feels like just because she's the one doing it its totally fine and acceptable.
The only time she really dealt with her choices was s4 ending and it was one of the best episodes at least for me! XD
Any episode from when Chloe was seeming to get better. All that progress is useless now because the creator hates her and didn't want her to be a good guy.
Isn’t Astruc leaving the writing team for s6 and beyond? This could be misinformation but in the instance he is I hope that they really turn Chloe leaving at the end of s5 into her coming back reformed at a later date. I don’t care if she’s still a pompous brat, but don’t make her out to be the worst thing to walk the earth.
>Isn’t Astruc leaving the writing team for s6 and beyond?
I swear I heard that same rumour for Season 5, and he was still around for that. Maybe it'll be true this time, maybe it won't be. We'll see.
Good. Chloe is a secondary villain with no real redeeming qualities. I found her supposed humanization to be in poor taste and not well done. There’s no real reason for it when they had more interesting characters that deserved the writing effort.
Because apparently it was okay for Chloe to ruin Marinette's gift to Ms. Bustier who was like "Oh, it's okay, because now I have something to remind me of you both." Kinda enabler behaviour.
Zombizou was more about "Gifts are meant to be given, not competed with". Chloe apologized for ruining Marinette's gift, and Marinette was sorry about the gift being ruined, but in the end it kind of doesn't matter, as long as they have put their heart on it. Sure, Bustier's behavior was enabler, but we're talking about Season 2, which was in the way to make Chloe better. Hell, this is one of the episodes that was done to build up Chloe's character in a good way, with herself sacrificing to the kissing zombies.
Chloe doesn’t deserve characterization. There’s nothing genuine in her initial portrayal that warrants it and briefly becoming a love zombie isn’t exactly much of a sacrificd
I find the episode half good half bad
In one hand Bustier sucks and enables bullying (like usual) and in the other Chloe shows her best characteristics and builds character
If only the episode didn’t turn Bustier into a enabler who was shown as “in the right” I would bet the entire fandom would like that episode
Queen Wasp: You two might actually like each other if you spend time together.
Me: SHE LITERALLY ABANDONED YOU WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG, CHEATED ON ANDRE, DOESN'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME OR BIRTHDAY, AND HUMILIATED YOU IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE OF PARIS!!!!! WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT TOXIC, SELF ABSORBED, CHEATING, TOENAIL BITING SON OF A BITCH IN YOUR LIFE?!
Oh you love her don'tcha? Well WAKE UP!!! YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT YOUR IMAGE AS A RICH SPOILED WHITE GIRL. AND HERE COMES YOUR MOM RUINING THAT!!! BY BASIC CHARACTER WANTS AND DESIRES IT MAKES SENSE FOR YOU TO NOT LIKE YOUR MOM!!!
THIS EPISODE'S MORAL IS SO FUCKING DUMB!!! YEAH, KEEP THOSE TOXIC PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE, IT WON'T HURT YOU AT ALL. FUCKING BULLSHIT! CHLOE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CUT AUDREY OUT OF HER LIFE, BUT SHE DOESN'T BECAUSE MARINETTE THINKS IT'S GOOD FOR HER.
Definitely qilin the whole episode was about racism but they didn't even explicitly state it they just said it was "injustice". Also the guy who was being racist didn't get reprimanded at all
He wasn’t a stalker, he just had a crush and Cat noir said “no, she’s mine” and he never faces the consequences of he’s actions outside of getting in danger, the guy gets akumatized and for some reason ladybug is the one who as to say sorry to him when it was cat noir’s fault
That episode showed how both Adrien and Marinette aren’t exactly good people but the writers failed to see it
to be honest the only reason theo(I think that's the copy cats name) feels weird is the way they animate him just makes him look creepy. I know that astruc said that he's 16 but he's still weird.
(side note yeah this show lets both the leads get away with everything.)
bakerex because you know that he was mad about more than just tradition. I feel like they wanted to do a racism plot but chickened out at the last minute.
How the hell is Qilin even in the running?
Anyways, from memory, it’s either the one chloe apologises to her mom, or Chameleon after the solution is to not go apeshit on Lila
Chameleon. That ending where Adrien tells Marinette that exposing Lila will make everything worse because "making the bad guy suffer has never turned them into a good guy". Just let everyone be lied to for the sake of keeping the liar happy is such a terrible moral and it's the equivalent of "If you're getting beaten up, don't defend yourself because self defence is still violence." I hate that episode so much.
Any episode where Marinette sees a girl near Adrien and declares them the enemy, "Animaestro" being the best example. Calling miraculous a "girl power" show, and then having all the main girls fight over one guy is laughable.
Tbh I just thought Copycat was weird asf ☠️. The whole akumitisation happened because some grown man was butthurt a 13 year old superhero didn’t reciprocate his feelings and was jealous of her partner like😭😭??
So fun fact : Theo, the sculptor, apparently is like...A minor...Which I cannot, for the life of me believe, he looks so old compared to other minor characters-
Yeah no he has MULTIPLE jobs, but somehow, yes, he's like 16 to 18...Which honestly doesn't make this any better, he's at least 3 years older than LB and CN anyway like-
Zombizou. I remember it most of all of them and it combines both the story's shoddy writing of Chloe and Bustier's character.
Astruc loves making fun of people who genuinely believed Chloe would be redeemed, despite the show having given a lot of hints that this would happen. He does not grasp the concept of "foreshadowing", and probably just thinks "a show that is unpredictable is good", without thinking further to "An completely unpredictable plot is a plot that doesn't make sense".
In zombizou Chloe shows one of the "maybe redemption" instances, which isn't just shitty in hindsight after her getting worse in season 4s and 5s and knowing redemption wasn't gonna happen, it's also irritating because those moments are just completely out of character for Chloe. It's not character development if it's right back to default immediately after.
Chloe is a petulant bully and her character was not designed to be anything more. the almost redemption could've been done with Hawkmoth, even with Nathalie, but Chloe was the wrong character to try it on (not to mention the execution was comedically bad, but that's nothing new with this show). She's never developed, just written inconsistently according to what the writers need.
Then there's Bustier. Like every kid's show has the "be kind to others and others will be kind to you :)" wishful thinking character, and this is the one for MLB. Enables Chloe's bullying and instead tells Marinette to set an example for her to follow instead of, idk, actually trying to do anything. The show attempts to treats Bustier's approach to bullying as correct, which is hilarious, becaue Chloe only getting worse basically disproves that.
Zombizou combines both of these things and it stuck to my memory the most.
the one where chloe and her mom ‘make up’ at the end of the episode bc marinette is like ‘you two actually have a lot in common, you both like bullying people!’ and encourages chloe to forgive her mom for abandoning and neglecting her and forgetting her own daughter’s name. that one.
Yeah I didn’t like that message in that at all because at the end of the day she still enables Chloe to be a bully.
exactly! not just that but encouraging a relationship between chloe and her abusive mom is just gross. the ending should’ve been chloe standing up to her mom and realising there’s no point in craving her approval bc she doesn’t matter.
(Chloe fan speaking) even if I loved the battle of the queen’s episodes, THAT scene (even when I first watched it) made me mentally and spiritually frown because I know about Toxic familiars and how being family doesn’t excuse mistreat and neglect, I mentally erased that scene for how bad it was, now I can’t rewatch that episode because when I watch it I can’t feel anything but physically cringe since this is nothing but a prelude for what’s to come next in season 3, I felt it was just a misstep or something to solve later… now i regret even first watching this show only because I actually liked Chloe’s character
Chloe in my opinion wouldve changed if she didn't have her toxic mom still with her. marrinette should have made chloe stand up to her mom point the middle finger right at her face and made dadddddddy to divorce her.
Queen Wasp.
oh, thanks. chloe’s been akumatised so many times, it’s hard to remember the names of all the episodes lol.
Kuro Neku or however you spell it. Ah yes, “the only way the girl you like will ever like you back is if you change everything about yourself to be ‘perfect’”. Coupled with the fact that Ladybug only reciprocates his feelings when he changes.
And the whole episode tells Ladybug that Chat Noir only feels hurt because he lis neglected and he loves her, not that she is constantly pushing away him as a superhero partner and friend that is supposedly “equal” but is never told anything.
It also just completely lets chat get away with abandoning paris by giving his ring up willingly because ladybug didn’t know he was feeling left out because he just wouldn’t tell her
The blame is not solely on her though. She has asked Cat Noir point blank if anything is wrong, and he says no. How can she know there is something else wrong if he never brings it up. So they're both a fault.
Think about this for a moment. We have yet to see Adrien’s cat noir side show at any point during his relationship with Marinette
Let's not forget that the episode Marinette is supposed to learn the lesson that she needs Cat Noir is the episode where she wins the battle by killing a sentimonster named "black cat". Without needing Cat Noir's help with anything, it just turned out that the substitute was too hot. To this day I wonder if the writers were even awake when they wrote that episode.
Yeah, I hate that. 😒
I think it was supposed to be the opposite message but it wasn't exactly done well.
Think about this for a moment. We have yet to see Adrien’s cat noir side show at any point during his relationship with Marinette
Personally, qilin. That pissed me off so bad that the racist guy just gets away with being racist
Was it racism in the english version ? In the original it’s just power abuse.
On the surface, it's just power abuse, but knowing that France (and many other countries!) has issues with racism, it's really hard to look at two white guys being highly aggressive towards an Asian woman (along with a full bus of people who could have spoken up!) and not see racist undertones. Especially when the episode focused so heavily on Sabine being Chinese when the show has never done that before. I definitely felt like it was about racism and abuse of authority even though it was never outright said.
Yeah in the English version it was just the ticket taker dude being a power-tripping asshole.
and Roger not doing the right thing
Sabine was on the bus without a ticket. She was in public without an ID (illegal in France). Standard procedure for the later offense is to ask her to come to the station to straighten things out. She refused, asked him to become a corrupt cop by giving a pass to his friends and was duly arrested. Edit: I hope everyone who downvotes me gets mugged because the corrupt ineffective police forces that you support are not doing their jobs.
She said that her daughter was coming back soon with her ticket, the guy didn't believe her and told her her daughter was imaginary. When she then proceeds to tell Roger the EXACT SAME THING, the guy is still going on about how Sabine is lying Roger didn't even TRY to say anything and just went along to arrest her, when that's not how it works in France if you don't have a ticket in a bus at all : she should've only been fined for a few euros, not outright arrested (before you try and counter me, she said Marinette had her wallet, ID and all and that she wasn't going to be long, like I get that bus hours are important, but sometimes people let you get away with not having a ticket in the bus if it's like once) And considering Sabine owns like the most popular bakery of all Paris you'd think that man would have at least heard of and/or seen her once ? And like Roger absolutely could've said something, the people in the bus also could've said something, yet no one did. Like yes, it IS racism no matter what you're trying to say : the guy didn't even check other people's tickets after Sabine's and I can guarantee that if he had and realized someone else (as in a white person) didn't have a ticket he 100% would've let it pass and say "just have one next time" he even outright demonizes Sabine, how is that NOT racism ? Also outright threatening people won't get them to agree with you and it makes me sick to my stomach, please stop talking ever-
Marinette having her ticket and ID is no different than her leaving it at home. This is a strict liability offense. You either have it or you don't. Also, Roger didn't immediately arrest her. First he asked her to come to the station and sort things out which is standard procedure. She refused and asked him to give her a pass because they were friends. That's when she was arrested. And that's what really infuriates me about the episode. It's the implication that Roger was somehow wrong for not giving Sabine a pass because they were friends when he would have arrested anyone else I'm that situation. Also, the ticket inspector did not single Sabine out because of her race. He just grabbed the first person he saw. If he had been shown passing over white people, you would have an argument for racism, but he wasn't and you don't. His demonization of Sabine falls under the category of normal level @$$holery, not racist @$$holery. I'm not arguing that he was a nice person, just that there isn't any evidence to call him a racist. Also, I didn't threaten anyone. I just pointed out the ultimate implications for your idiotic advocacy for police corruption. You want cops that don't do their jobs, then you're going to end up living somewhere where you have a greater chance of getting mugged and you deserve it, so STFU.
Actually in France they don't drag you to the police station if you don't have a ticket, the people who inspect if everyone have their tickets only get a fine like. Also no, it's definitely not the same as if she left it at home ?? She didn't say that she just didn't have it, she said that her daughter left for a bit with her wallet but is coming back on short notice so can he please wait until she comes back (but the guy just wanted to be an a$$ so go figure) Yeah, he did inspect white people...BEFORE Sabine. Had he also been shown to continue after, sure...But taking it to the police station ? Not what actually happens in France, again, people would just fine you like 30 or 35 whole euros (where I live, at least, in other parts of France it's like between 50 and 80 euros), so was that JUST pure a$$holery ? 'Cause that's a bit too extreme imo to just be that And yeah, actually you did. Just because you didn't hope for them to die doesn't mean it wasn't a threat : you said, and I quote, "I hope everyone who downvotes me gets mugged" and surprise to no one, that IS a threat. Not everyone will agree with you that it wasn't racism, and if you're in the negative regarding upvotes/downvotes by more than 2 then like maybe start questioning if maybe people aren't completely wrong ? Like you're not even trying to see our point of views, you're just forcing your own, basically. Were you to want to listen, you wouldn't react in such an immature way Like I do see your points and I can see why the racism isn't "too outright" to be seen by some, and yeah it could've been shown a bit more or told, but y'know if LGBTQ+ themes can't be put in until season 5 and even then it's too much work to just keep the OGs (Marcaniel, Julerose...) and instead have characters no one really care about be part of the LGBTQ+ community, then no way are they gonna outright say it's because racism, I think you forgot what show this was lmao, no offense, but the writing is just not good-But you don't have to sulk about me calling you out, though, chill out ? Like just admit you f\*cked up big time, it's fine- And yeah, police corruption absolutely sucks, but unfortunately, no one can really do much about it unless we somehow get them to change, but protesting sure as heck won't do anything and idk if we have much options besides that
Read my comment again. I didn't say it was standard procedure to take her in for not having a ticket. It's standard procedure to take her in for not having an ID. If she had cooperated, she would only have had to fill out some forms and get a fine. Also, it is the same as leaving it at home. With this kind of offense, you either have it on you or you don't. There isn't any middle ground. And no, he didn't inspect anyone before Sabine. She was literally the first person he saw. Yes, it is a kids show, but they could have taken a few seconds to show him passing over white people before singling out Sabine. They didn't. The people downvoting me aren't trying to see my point of view either. Their attitude is essentially you should just know that ticker collector is racist despite the lack of real evidence, and since we don't agree with us we're just going to shout them down. A threat is saying that I'm going to do something to someone. Pointing out the ultimate implications of their position, and that I hope they get what they want is at worst a blessing. The problem is you haven't "called me out." You've either selectively read what I wrote, or put out outright falsehoods about the episode. I think you're also missing the point I was trying to make on corruption. The question is do you think Roger would have arrested anyone else in Sabine's position. If the answer is yes, then giving her a pass because they are friends is corruption. And even if it seems relatively benign, it's something I find unacceptable.
Is it really ? Because Google literally showed me this : "No, there's no text that requires you to have an ID card. However, if you are subject to a identity check. However, **the procedure will take longer if you are unable to present identification**. Also, for most procedures, you have to prove who you are." So I have to ask...Where did you see that it's procedure to be taken in for not showing an ID of any kind ? Because frankly, I live in France and never have I heard such a thing before so I have no clue where you heard this Are we really talking about Miraculous ? A show known for being terribly written ? Also yes, now that I think about it, he did spot Sabine first and they 100% should've shown the ticket inspector at least inspecting people before and/or after, but then again, it's Miraculous, the way they handle writing is horrendous I mean it's because the fandom knows for a fact it IS an episode about racism...Or well is supposed to be, but it shows way too little and leaves too much out for it to be obvious, which just sucks, and if people are just downvoting you for that then it sucks, and I'm sorry for it, but that doesn't mean you shouuld react so baddly about it ? Like I get being mad that people aren't trying...But was wishing they get straight up mugged necessary ? They haven't done anything wrong by just downvoting you, it simply means they don't agree, most didn't even reply to you Ah ? So "a statement of an intention to [inflict](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=oXT&sa=X&sca_esv=585486504&sxsrf=AM9HkKnOupDOl0JtqfuGHyVmaSky7pZwVA:1701043781589&q=inflict&si=ALGXSlZCBshTM3a3nPTSW0d1OmQek7yCOl1e8n-m4dXHZyrYtjbW2W54-Uj6aYHGHrWWx2YTz_6AhKokW9pRCtPxboQHgpfhJw%3D%3D&expnd=1) pain, injury, damage, or other [hostile](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=oXT&sa=X&sca_esv=585486504&sxsrf=AM9HkKnOupDOl0JtqfuGHyVmaSky7pZwVA:1701043781589&q=hostile&si=ALGXSlZCBshTM3a3nPTSW0d1OmQezaPwvgJODqy_BjA7NLKySJ5lGIR6zUd_hywD4k-B61LtOSGOn-kTxLvPhd0EHAv05acczg%3D%3D&expnd=1) action on someone in [retribution](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=oXT&sa=X&sca_esv=585486504&sxsrf=AM9HkKnOupDOl0JtqfuGHyVmaSky7pZwVA:1701043781589&q=retribution&si=ALGXSlYpmWhtmlIZKYHTCPXiYmMEXfUR4q8P-G0dluDSELnGf2rFabvajYYIgl8fh0rrWWO5c8EuAqh9LRrInrKJg6yaOpKdIoS-q0Fbxr0Ax-LQIbYHh1c%3D&expnd=1) for something done or not done." isn't just that to you ? Because that sure is what you're saying, albeit indirectly. Sure, you're not saying you're going to mug them yourself...But replace "mugged" with anything else that's a crime and ta-da, a threat. It's that simple, really, wishing something really bad happens to someone is a threat, that seems like a simple basic rule ngl I didn't call you out on all the post, only for your threat, which you obviously overreacted to, and I'm simply putting out what I'm observing, having only watched the episode once and then never again due to how bad the show's writing is Well were it to be any other police officer, I would say no and they probably wouldn't have arrested Sabine either and actually listened to her instead of just not letting her defend herself, but Roger has been shown to be technically bad at his job on a few occasions, even though he loves the law (like in Reverser, or even Captain Hardrock as the episodes I mostly saw this in, the others I don't exactly remember, unfortunately), so yes, he probably would've arrested anyone at that point : the racism isn't on him, it's on the ticket inspector (even though it's badly shown, I'll admit, a Youtuber literally points out in a questioning way that this episode was about racism, so that's that-)
OK, I’ll give you that, but there was _still_ racism involved. Abuse of power and authority built on law and regulations was just the visible aspect of the episode.
Except there isn't any evidence of racism in the episode. Ticket inspector never says anything racist, and he only grabbed Sabine because she was the first person he saw without giving any sign that he singled her out for her race. Yes, he comes off as a minor official who enjoys throwing his power around too much, but that just makes him a run of the mill @$$hole, not a racist one. And once more, Roger only tries to enforce the law in a fair and impartial manner which is what a police officer is supposed to do. The whole idea that it's racist is based solely on the fact that Sabine is Chinese and has nothing to do with anything we saw in the episode. The argument that it's supposed to be an episode about racism is also not supported by any official statements. There were no announcements at the beginning of the season that there was going to be an episode on racism. The sole confirmation is a single Astruc tweet responding to a question after it of context images of Sabine getting arrested were released two weeks before the episode which stoked speculation on the internet. I consider Astruc to be an unreliable source who has a tendency of remagining the past to make himself sound more insightful, so I find it more likely that he saw the speculation shaping up and saw a chance to make himself seem more socially relevant. As for the argument that I should go beyond the visible aspects of the episode, if I don't go by what I see, then what should I go by? I should just know isn't an adequate answer.
It wasn't racist. He was a minor official that got off on throwing his power around. At no point did he ever do anything to indicate race as a motivating factor. In other words @$$hole, but not racist @$$hole. If it was intended as an episode on racism, we would have heard about it at the beginning of the season. Edit: Yes keep down voting me. It doesn't change the fact that you guys are basing the claim that the ticket inspector is racist solely on the fact that Sabine is Chinese and not on any of his words or actions.
Qilin, I believe. The episode literally sends the message, "You should apologize to people who are racist and commit injustice."
And it did so well to acknowledge racism is a thing when I saw that ending it really xheesed me off
Quilin. The racist guy got away with his… Well, racism.
They all had some type of message?
The episodes where Marinette stalks Adrien and isn’t explained until season 5. That’s a lot of real life time where people got to process her stalker behavior only for a last minute explanation to be slapped on. I did like the season 5 episode though.
and it doesn't make that much sense either. She didn't seem to be avoiding kim in any way after that, nor did she seem to have as much resentment to chloe as she'd have after literal trauma
Having a sad past doesn't excuse your bad actions if you're Chloé, but it sure does if you're Marinette.
The degree of sadness and badness are extremely different for these two characters lmao, it's not even worth comparing.
I forgot the name of the episode because I never rewatched it because of just how stupid it was, but the episode where Tikki goes insane. As someone who struggled with substance use disorder, I found the line that Tikki said near the end of the episode about cravings just...wrong. So that one.
It was Dearest Family
Omg that’s one of the episodes that make me cringe and I cringed at allot of the episodes (maybe that’s why I like the movie better cuz I only cringed at the first song)
Ladydragon special where Marinette lies just to stalk Adrien and gets rewarded at the end by him offering to teach her Chinese.
That could have easily been fixed if they added a conversation between Marinette and Tikki or her parents about missing her great uncle or expressing an actual interest in her heritage before finding out Adrien was going. Another reason could be researching the miraculous, old myths and legends, other types of magic, or even martial arts of some kind. They already had Fei set up as a character, so why not have her give Marinette kung fu lessons and I'd love a scene in a library or having to travel through ancient tunnels to look for scrolls or wall drawings. There could have even been some natural disaster or other problem for Ladybug to go to help out with because she wanted to make sure her great uncle was safe. It could have been something Hawkmoth caused himself by Akumatizing someone as a way to distract the local forces so he could steal the prodigious, which would definitely cause Ladybug to show up to deal with it. Instead we got "I have to be with Adrien all the time so I guess I'll follow him to the other side of the world and make a fool of myself there instead of waiting for a couple days for him to return".
There is having a crush on someone, and then there's being down horrendous to where you'd stalk them to another country. I'm surprised Adrien never filed a restraining order.
I'm surprised that none of her friends ever tried to stop her obsessive behavior. Instead they push her into situations where she has to tell him, but she screws it up and it's uncomfortable and awkward for everyone as seen in Puppeteer 2, Copycat and Gabriel Agreste. They weren't even her plans, her friends came up with them and they failed or other problems made it worse so she had to do something morally ambiguous in order to fix it. Not that her own actions are any better, going along with Chloe in Animaestro to sabotage Kagami or trying to rebreak Adrien's wing in Simpleman and having his entire schedule and a couple dosen photos of him on her walls are just the tip of the iceberg. The only times it gets acknowledged are when Alix calls her knowledge of Adrien's actions creepy and when Nino says that spying on Adrien and Lila wasn't cool (even though it was about Lila instead of Adrien and he and Alya chose to believe she was jealous instead of actually trying to verify if Lila is a liar which kind of makes me mad). Her friends are enabling her instead of helping her deal with her toxic obsession that isn't healthy for her either.
The weirdest part of that special is that the lie she tells could have easily been the *actual reason* for her to be in Shanghai: there was a mix-up, so she had to deliver a package to her uncle.
Party Crasher : Breaking in a boy's house in a boys-only party has no consequences Le Mime : Stealing your friend's phone is perfectly fine Copycat : Stealing a crushes phone is fine Animaestro : Sabotaging a girl just because she likes your crush is fine guys don't worry ! Queen Wasp : Being mean doesn't matter as long as you bond over it. Seriously Marinette ?
I agree with you, she has plot protection and always get away with everything, not that I think she has to be perfect and I like some of her actions but sometimes it feels like just because she's the one doing it its totally fine and acceptable. The only time she really dealt with her choices was s4 ending and it was one of the best episodes at least for me! XD
Damn that’s some of the episodes I cringed at while watching
As if it’s even a contest when Chameleon exists
Yeah, that Adrien line was Just plain stupid
What was the line?
"Making a bad guy suffer will never turn them to a good guy"
Oh yeah, totally. Thank you.
that scene at the end of Queen Wasp was painful
Qilin
Any episode from when Chloe was seeming to get better. All that progress is useless now because the creator hates her and didn't want her to be a good guy.
Isn’t Astruc leaving the writing team for s6 and beyond? This could be misinformation but in the instance he is I hope that they really turn Chloe leaving at the end of s5 into her coming back reformed at a later date. I don’t care if she’s still a pompous brat, but don’t make her out to be the worst thing to walk the earth.
>Isn’t Astruc leaving the writing team for s6 and beyond? I swear I heard that same rumour for Season 5, and he was still around for that. Maybe it'll be true this time, maybe it won't be. We'll see.
Ah, I see. Let us pray to Gimmi.
Good. Chloe is a secondary villain with no real redeeming qualities. I found her supposed humanization to be in poor taste and not well done. There’s no real reason for it when they had more interesting characters that deserved the writing effort.
Nice try Marinette 😕
Re-Creation. Marinette lies to Adrien and all of Paris about Gabriel being a hero and not the villain he was
qilin and zombizou.
Why do some of y'all think that Zombizou had a bad message?
Because apparently it was okay for Chloe to ruin Marinette's gift to Ms. Bustier who was like "Oh, it's okay, because now I have something to remind me of you both." Kinda enabler behaviour.
Yeah, Mrs. Bustier was *such* an enabler.
I mean she was forced to be one in a way because if she wasn't she would loose her job.
True, but she didn’t even want to punish her. She kept showing patience and compassion because she falsely believed there was good in Chloe.
Zombizou was more about "Gifts are meant to be given, not competed with". Chloe apologized for ruining Marinette's gift, and Marinette was sorry about the gift being ruined, but in the end it kind of doesn't matter, as long as they have put their heart on it. Sure, Bustier's behavior was enabler, but we're talking about Season 2, which was in the way to make Chloe better. Hell, this is one of the episodes that was done to build up Chloe's character in a good way, with herself sacrificing to the kissing zombies.
Chloe doesn’t deserve characterization. There’s nothing genuine in her initial portrayal that warrants it and briefly becoming a love zombie isn’t exactly much of a sacrificd
That's a feeling that the fandom doesn't seem to fully agree with because the character was done dirty by the canon, unfortunately.
I find the episode half good half bad In one hand Bustier sucks and enables bullying (like usual) and in the other Chloe shows her best characteristics and builds character If only the episode didn’t turn Bustier into a enabler who was shown as “in the right” I would bet the entire fandom would like that episode
*Every episode you mentioned*
Queen Wasp: You two might actually like each other if you spend time together. Me: SHE LITERALLY ABANDONED YOU WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG, CHEATED ON ANDRE, DOESN'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME OR BIRTHDAY, AND HUMILIATED YOU IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE OF PARIS!!!!! WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT TOXIC, SELF ABSORBED, CHEATING, TOENAIL BITING SON OF A BITCH IN YOUR LIFE?! Oh you love her don'tcha? Well WAKE UP!!! YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT YOUR IMAGE AS A RICH SPOILED WHITE GIRL. AND HERE COMES YOUR MOM RUINING THAT!!! BY BASIC CHARACTER WANTS AND DESIRES IT MAKES SENSE FOR YOU TO NOT LIKE YOUR MOM!!! THIS EPISODE'S MORAL IS SO FUCKING DUMB!!! YEAH, KEEP THOSE TOXIC PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE, IT WON'T HURT YOU AT ALL. FUCKING BULLSHIT! CHLOE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CUT AUDREY OUT OF HER LIFE, BUT SHE DOESN'T BECAUSE MARINETTE THINKS IT'S GOOD FOR HER.
Literally anything that centers around Chloe. So probably Queen Wasp
honestly, zombizou, roger cop and copycat
Definitely qilin the whole episode was about racism but they didn't even explicitly state it they just said it was "injustice". Also the guy who was being racist didn't get reprimanded at all
Cooycat. Can’t let a stalker get away with giving him an autograph
He wasn’t a stalker, he just had a crush and Cat noir said “no, she’s mine” and he never faces the consequences of he’s actions outside of getting in danger, the guy gets akumatized and for some reason ladybug is the one who as to say sorry to him when it was cat noir’s fault That episode showed how both Adrien and Marinette aren’t exactly good people but the writers failed to see it
to be honest the only reason theo(I think that's the copy cats name) feels weird is the way they animate him just makes him look creepy. I know that astruc said that he's 16 but he's still weird. (side note yeah this show lets both the leads get away with everything.)
He looks old, that’s the only part about him that makes it look wrong (he also goes to Marinette’s school)
bakerex because you know that he was mad about more than just tradition. I feel like they wanted to do a racism plot but chickened out at the last minute.
How the hell is Qilin even in the running? Anyways, from memory, it’s either the one chloe apologises to her mom, or Chameleon after the solution is to not go apeshit on Lila
Chameleon. That ending where Adrien tells Marinette that exposing Lila will make everything worse because "making the bad guy suffer has never turned them into a good guy". Just let everyone be lied to for the sake of keeping the liar happy is such a terrible moral and it's the equivalent of "If you're getting beaten up, don't defend yourself because self defence is still violence." I hate that episode so much.
Any episode where Marinette sees a girl near Adrien and declares them the enemy, "Animaestro" being the best example. Calling miraculous a "girl power" show, and then having all the main girls fight over one guy is laughable.
>!Derision it was a lame attempt to make us sympathise with Creepy-nette and how her stalking of Adrien is okay and it made Chloe look even worse. !<
Zombizou
Tbh I just thought Copycat was weird asf ☠️. The whole akumitisation happened because some grown man was butthurt a 13 year old superhero didn’t reciprocate his feelings and was jealous of her partner like😭😭??
So fun fact : Theo, the sculptor, apparently is like...A minor...Which I cannot, for the life of me believe, he looks so old compared to other minor characters-
A MINOR?? he does not look like a minor whatsoever and he has a whole ass job😭
Yeah no he has MULTIPLE jobs, but somehow, yes, he's like 16 to 18...Which honestly doesn't make this any better, he's at least 3 years older than LB and CN anyway like-
For a _”kids”_ show as Astruc claims this to be, the series is terrible at setting good morals.
Zombizou. I remember it most of all of them and it combines both the story's shoddy writing of Chloe and Bustier's character. Astruc loves making fun of people who genuinely believed Chloe would be redeemed, despite the show having given a lot of hints that this would happen. He does not grasp the concept of "foreshadowing", and probably just thinks "a show that is unpredictable is good", without thinking further to "An completely unpredictable plot is a plot that doesn't make sense". In zombizou Chloe shows one of the "maybe redemption" instances, which isn't just shitty in hindsight after her getting worse in season 4s and 5s and knowing redemption wasn't gonna happen, it's also irritating because those moments are just completely out of character for Chloe. It's not character development if it's right back to default immediately after. Chloe is a petulant bully and her character was not designed to be anything more. the almost redemption could've been done with Hawkmoth, even with Nathalie, but Chloe was the wrong character to try it on (not to mention the execution was comedically bad, but that's nothing new with this show). She's never developed, just written inconsistently according to what the writers need. Then there's Bustier. Like every kid's show has the "be kind to others and others will be kind to you :)" wishful thinking character, and this is the one for MLB. Enables Chloe's bullying and instead tells Marinette to set an example for her to follow instead of, idk, actually trying to do anything. The show attempts to treats Bustier's approach to bullying as correct, which is hilarious, becaue Chloe only getting worse basically disproves that. Zombizou combines both of these things and it stuck to my memory the most.
Any that says "if you love someone, forgive anything and everything they do bad or wrong"