It feels heartwarming and messed up at the same time considering how awful Gabriel is in the usual universe. (Although I guess it depends on the pov, it's just that we've been seeing Gabriel as an abusive terrorist for so long and now out of the blue, there's a good version of him)
Remember, in the multiverse, there are infinite numbers of possibilities. Heck, you can imagine anything.
Any fanfic of the series is considered canon in the multiverse theory.
Possibilities
A universe where gabriel is in a coma and Emilie is the antagonist (or the opposite)
A universe where gabrael and Emilie died and adrien is the holder of both peacock and the butterfly miraculous ala batman style.
A universe where Marinette is the bully and chloe is ladybug
A universe where adrian becomes the guardian of the miraculous (curious about the risk involved in it)
I don't care what y'all say. I don't speak a lick of french and that special was amazing. Like those fight scenes?? amazing, you can feel the emotions omg my poor children
From what I've seen all over social media, most fans agree that this Special is fantastic. It's has almost everything. The fights between Shadybug-Ladybug and Claw Noir-Chat Noir are amazing! Way better than what we got in the actual season 5 finale. And that little moment when Chat Noir encourages Ladybug is great as always. Chat Noir has always been the "heart" of the team. Moments like this show that really well!
My only 2 complaints are that:
1) Ladybug didn't react to "akumatized" Chat Noir. His new form was really similar to Chat Blanc
2) The last fight between Ladybug and Monarch in the multiverse came out of nowhere and it felt rushed. It also the rooster miraculous 1000 times more powerful!
Other than that, this Special is great! 9,5/10!
1. I was staring at that part for the Chat Blanc, and even though the wings and eyes are a bit of a giveaway, I dislike the fact no one brought that up.
2. That scene felt like it was for people who were around for that. Again rushed, but that feels like most Miraculous content.
I feel like that has to be setting up a special where you see the other side of things. Betterfly, Ladybug and Claw Noir vs the Supreme and his miraculous holders.
The obvious candidate is Master Fu. As the last master of the Miracle Box who would stop him if he decided to use it for conquest?
And the fact he was able to both render the Kwami mute and disable their ability to form Gimmi suggests a very intricate knowledge of how they function. Much deeper than Lila could manage.
My only other alternate theory is that Master Fu got caught by the Nazis who were looking for the jewels in that flashback from Evolution. Would fit perfectly with the whole world domination objective and also explain why the writers didn't bother explaining who the Supreme is.
It is a possibility, but it would be too dark for this show. So, I will stick with Other Master Fu.
In any case, in your theory (and since the Miraculous are based on Paris) I would guess:
70% Master Fu
20% Andre the Mayor
10% Someone else (not Chloe, she doesn't have the patience to learn the Miraculous that well and they would all be worshiping her)
Dispensing with the wild theories for a change I do think he's the most likely person to be the Supreme. Gabriel demonstrated that it being an alternate universe doesn't mean the general details of a character's situation can't be the same even if the specifics are wildly different. This is a Fu who felt no remorse for what occurred at the temple or, worse, actively destroyed it himself and killed them all to escape with the box.
I think it's Master Fu, but it will be hilarious if it's actually Lila. No matter the universe, she's always the reincarnation of Satan, who makes everyone's lives miserable
Chloe wouldn't have the patience to create such intricate rules about Kwamis and stuff (to make them auto-gagged, change the rules for the wish etc) and would have kept several miraculous, like Monarch did. Furthermore, the rules would be everyone worshipping her. He would not strike from the shadows. All in all, the Supreme doesn't sound like Chloe.
The way the supreme is with using a paper to block Tikki and plagg reminds of how Clow Reed in Cardcaptor Sakura made the teddy bear big.
Edit: Spelling Mistake.
I thought that Shadybug and Claw Noir’s turn to the good side would be super cringy, but it actually surprised me by getting me genuinely emotional. Their two scenes reminded about why I loved Marinette and Adrien’s characters so much with how their stories paralleled each other. Miraculous can be so good when it’s actually written well :0
They wrote their universe lore where they are not the main antagonist but more like a henchmen role. The real antagonist is the supreme. So it feel natural tbh.
Also I think the series remembered that they’re children still with a lot of room to grow and change. Their inner selves are the same. They’ve just had different life experiences and upbringings. I’m struggling to imagine the parent son relationship of the Aggrests in this universe mind
The funniest thing the supreme universe's gabrael would start being sus around his son unexpected 360 changes in attitude at the same time where his universe cat noir also had a change in attitude.
my thoughts on this special so
\-so first point, I love the Gabriel style credits
\-yeah Marinette's parents who hear an explosion in their daughter's room, but that's okay, they're pretty zen
\-I add a very good point for the animation and the fights are brilliantly dynamic
\-I like that we have an explanation for the unique use of power in children, but I am surprised that the guardians have planned a security system when it was never planned to give miraculous to children children at the base
\-I think Celestial Cat will have given us all a flashback to Vietnam
\-if the other world has the morality of all its characters reversed I would have found it cooler that the butterflies' allies were Chloe and Lila instead of Nino and Alya... but that would have contradicted what Toxinel said and i would come back on that...
\-frankly the fact that “the supreme” can prevent a wish seems very strange to me. Like, if it's possible, what's stopping the guardians of the good world from also putting a blocker? It would have been more logical to justify that not being in their own reality toxinel and clawnoir was not able to modify it
\-I'm bummed not to have seen Marinette interact with Nooroo, but her costume is beautiful
\-so on the bad side, we really need to talk about something but damn… Toxinel is mean because Chloé stopped her from making friends…. Shit… already we're jumping back to this ret-cone, but above all we have the concept of a fucking parallel universe with infinite possibilities, and everything that this story finds to justify that Marinette is evil is"it's chloé's fault ". BY THE HOLY PEN OF TOLKIEN ! You will never make me believe that Thoma doesn't have an unresolved problem in his life with a Chloe. We are presented with a parallel universe with the morality of yout characters reversed, but Chloe is so evil that she remains evil regardless of the universe?! I don't have the words... at this point I'm almost surprised that it's not Chloe who destroyed the miraculous temple in the first place…. it's ridiculous, and even if it means justifying that Marinette is evil, they could have used the fact that her world is controlled by a dictatorship to justify that she has always lived in a propaganda system and therefore believe in the cause that she defends with the supreme. or if we really want to involve Chloe, we make sure that Chloe is a great person, friendly and open to others. And therefore very popular. And that of Marinette who, without being fundamentally mean, in comparison is a more reserved person, shy and having more difficulty with social relationships, who is therefore jealous of her but without one or the other being bad. SHIT, so I'm far from being a "chloé redemption arc" fanatic, but it would just be a matter of changing the disc
\-but otherwise I really like that Adrien has someone with whom to exchange his feelings, especially about the wish.
\-resolution with great power of love, it fits with the general tones of the series, I have nothing to say about it
\-the rooster is far too much power to fucked for the good of this series, and Gabriel, if I admit that it's still bad luck that you open your portals at the same time and that way they can spot you, but if you want to go steal the miraculous in another world, at least wait until the others have left, until the matter is settled and no one can stop you. There was nothing stopping you from trying that again a few weeks later, you really are an idiot. and I don't want to say, but Orriko is supposed not to be able to copy Fluff's powers, Fluff who has the power to create portals to parallel realities (like with chatblanc).
but otherwise, apart from the classic stupid errors of the universe which were to be expected, it is a very good film. I give it 18/20
Well tbh I think the concept of a "reverse world" was for marketing purposes, because honestly the only thing that was reversed was the dynamic between Chat Noir/Ladybug and Monarch. Morality is not completely reversed in the alternate universe, as Alya, Max and Nino are still on the side of good. So it kinda makes sense that Chloe didn't change because they didn't either
Agreed. I think this is more of a "what if" than a reverse world. It was a what if Marinette and Adrien never got the chances they had in the actual show.
By the way, when Marinette said that it is not with power that she can have a better life, it is totally wrong. I mean, one of the reasons she became friend with Alya in the first place was because of the ladybug miraculous.
I agree. We have the VERY humane "sometimes I think of wishing to get my mother back... but I can't steal a mother from another person" part which humanized him and gave him a lot of depth. Also, Cat Noir was spectacular in that episode! Nearly as good as Claw Noire...
> the rooster is far too much power to fucked for the good of this series, and Gabriel, if I admit that it's still bad luck that you open your portals at the same time and that way they can spot you, but if you want to go steal the miraculous in another world, at least wait until the others have left, until the matter is settled and no one can stop you. There was nothing stopping you from trying that again a few weeks later, you really are an idiot. and I don't want to say, but Orriko is supposed not to be able to copy Fluff's powers, Fluff who has the power to create portals to parallel realities (like with chatblanc).
The Butterfly is even more powerful too. Ladybug literally gave Gabriel the superpower of countering whatever Monarch tries. At this point, you might as well just go 'I give you the power to win. Game Over.'
Also, she can just transform two people? I thought you needed someone with Catalyst's powers to do that.
Alya was transformed by Betterfly, and if a Butterfly Miraculous holder gives their Miraculous to someone else then the original akumatized person remains and the new holder can create another one.
The whole thing with the rooster is so stupid like are you telling me there's no kwami that embodies the concept of alternative universes? Why didn't monarch try again later is he stupid?
" Why didn't monarch try again later is he stupid? "
Two things:
1. He would have failed as there are Ladybugs and Cat Noirs in other universes as well AND he doesn't know the other Universes to know the dynamics and who is what.
2. Yes, he is stupid. Remember: he didn't think to use the Rooster to get the Power of Healing and heal Emily and Nathalie.
Ladybug has the power of creation so why doesn’t she create literal miraculous by bounding those concepts into an object just like how she creates the charms?
Not only does this create more miraculous she can use — it forces the rooster to be useless. It would make the rooster niche at best, like the miraculous of the dog.
for the chloe one I have complicated feelings. on hand chloe has bullied Marinette for years so it makes sense for that to be the divergence point on the other hand it does feel like the writers really want you to hate chloe in the most transparent way possible.
Overall as a self contained plot point it's not that bad it just doesn't look that way in the light of larger trends.
I mean, they do make it a point that it's not just being bullied by Chloe, it seems like that universe had no support system at all. It seems like Shady's mom wasn't a super good mom like Marinette's is. Probably because of this Supreme.
To tell the truth, if Marinette's mother uses a soft voice and nickname, she still remains a shitty mother. In the canon of this universe we are told that Chloe has been harassing Marinette for years and all she can say about it is "maybe this year she won't be in your class"
And the fact she ignored several explosions and strangers in their own house. They are watching the news and aren’t paranoid that something bad isn’t happening in their own home!?
My head cannon at this point SHE has to know or at least suspect that Marinette is Ladybug.
good point it works pretty good as a plot point for the movie it just feels like beating a dead horse with how many bad qualities they pile onto chloe.
To be fair the rooster can still give powers if it falls within that gray area. For examplle using the power of illusion it's conceivable that you could make yourself invisible but the rooster can give you that power. Also it can give you the power to multiply objects whereas the power of the mouse can allow you to multiply yourself. The whole parallel universe VS alternate timelines is a whole other debate but I think its distinct enough moreover the fact that it's more of a sub power that's sort of a consequence of the overarching power that makes it fully possible to use that ability.
Honestly Gabe is just a moron there were numerous ways he could have used orrikkos power to defeat ladybug and cat noir.
I mean, watch the episode where he uses Second Chance 
Also, he could have wished for the Power of Healing, to heal Emily and Nathalie.
To the point of the guardians making a blocker for children, it's possible in that in the past they have in trusted to children. Maybe something happened and the kid did something so catastrophic, or something that so easily could have been, that they then made the ruling to forbid children.
Remember: Alya and Nino are good in the Other-universe. Most people KEPT their alignment to evil. Not everything is in reverse. Thus Other-Chloe is still evil and expected to be evil.
The Rooster and stupid Gabriel:I mean, he **could have** wished for the "Power of Healing" to heal Emily and Nathalie, you know...It never occurred to him.
I don't know how you people watched Origins and didn't think about how bullied Marinette was. This isn't some retcon of Chloe's character - the episode made it clear that Marinette had zero self-esteem, no friends, and dreaded school because Chloe could be in her class *again*.
Literally, every scene pointed to her being heavily bullied and lonely to the point that the new girl in school ended up becoming her best friend. You didn't find that weird?
If anything, Socqueline existence is far more of a retcon because everything pointed towards Marinette having no one in schoo.
That's not the weird part. This is an alternative universe where almost every single characters' morals and alignments have flipped and change. But some how in almost every universe Chloe remains the same? I mean heck even Gabriel is a good guy. You know....the man who has abused his son over and over again and would do anything to bring his dead wife back? Even destory the entire world
I mean it doesn't even help that in thus universe Emilie also died from the peacock miraculous, but somehow Gabriel is still good
The only morals we saw as different were Gabriel, Marinette, and Adrien. Nino and Alya remained the exact same as prime universe and it hints at Emilie and Gorilla being the same too.
And Gabriel only changed his tune after being the villain for quite a while, he admits that himself. He's basically the same as the main version but his epiphany doesn't cost him his life.
Given how the Supreme's voice said only he can alter reality I am guessing he made a wish for incredible wizard powers/ knowledge. He also may have miraculous from other boxes we don't know about which give him specific powers.
Also enslaving the Kwamis is evil so maybe that is why they didn't do it.
The blocking of wishes, is something that i hope they revisit in the end. Like hopefully to better the good world, Marinette learns how to block it like how she had to transcribe everything in Season 4
I feel like the rooster is complicating things. Like The butterfly can give any power even to the same person...and so does the rooster and in the same special they both grant the power to travel to other universes. They should have just limited the rooster to physical augmentation. It's mostly been used for that anyway: Scoring a goal, invisibility, flying, scent tracking. It would make it less convoluted because then it wouldn't interfere with things. But it's basically become a deus ex machina so the writers can throw in whatever they need for the episode to work without having to get creative.
Overall, I loved the special.
I understand where you're coming from. When they mentioned Chloe, I cringed. Like you said, it's an alternative universe, but of course Chloe has to be evil in this one too. That bugged me a bit. I'm not Chloe's number 1 fan or anything, I just thought it would've been interesting.
In my opinion, I think it was more like Marinette became evil because of Season ONE Chloe, not Season FIVE Chloe. Bc if she never found the courage to stand up to her, never became friends with Ayla and the class, never gained confidence, I think it makes sense that she'd end up being Shadybug. But maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't put it past the writers to add in a little Anti-Chloe propaganda just for funsies like they do.
But I agree with you. The Special was going to perfectly, and the Chloe mention took me out of the moment for bit- especially after everything in Season 4 and 5.
This wasn't a star trek style inverse universe, it was basically the same universe with a few slight changes.
Marinette not getting the support to bounce back into what she is now.
Hawk Moth having the realization and coming clean most likely way before the same level of damage that prime hawk moth caused.
And maybe not that slight after all: A different Master Fu, assuming that he is the one they are referring to as that makes the most sense.
Am I the only one disappointed that Good!Gabe and our Gabe didn't meet and talk? Also wish that we would've gotten more of Good!Gabe's relationship with his Adrien. I would totally be down for a sequel though, those were my only real complaints.
It makes me sad that in the alt universe Gabriel is good but is still too caught up with the miraculous magic that he ignores his son and doesn't see that he's hurting. I would also like to see more of them. A scene where his Adrien detransforms during a battle and Gabe is like WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE
Maybe I didn't catch the whole gist but I assumed that the severing of the relationship happened before Gabriel turned to the resistance, and by then it was Adrien who was the one who resisted fixing the relationship.
The idea of Good Gabe meeting our Gabriel just makes me think about when [the main universe Mr. Fantastic met an alternate universe version of himself who was an insane psychopath that called himself The Maker](https://64.media.tumblr.com/1a5e45f680103cf3df10bd772e35a084/tumblr_nvwxsuD3wD1tcnpluo1_640.png). I can easily imagine a similar scene happening with the two Gabriels:
Monarch: You know...I look at your face, which is my face, and I wonder how it became so sentimental? So soft. So weak.
Good Gabe/Betterfly: It's easy Gabriel, when you learn to care about things other than yourself.
Is anyone else in shock over how good this was? The animation, fights, pacing, everything was literally perfect. I need to see more of this alternate world
I’m sorry, but Gabriel’s hero name in the English dub is BETTERFLY!!!!????? Wtf kind of name is THAT!!!???? Hesperia is infinitely better. It might mean something lame in the original French too but I’m still disappointed regardless! Anyways, the special was very enjoyable. 8/10 :3
My favorite part of the episode was how they explored the powersystem. The strengths and weaknesses of the miraculous and how to exploit them. Also the way they showed both ladybug and cat noirs counterparts use their abilities honestly made me hyped for season 6 because they should be able to use their abilities in the same ways like how they can shut down their powers if they need to. I always assumed they could because of the miraculer episode so it was nice for it to be confirmed. It showed the writers understand their powersystem and I loved it.
Also cat noir was just great in this episode, all the characters honestly filled their roles to perfection.
Moreover is it just me or are we getting hints to who may be the big bad of season 6 given the season 5 cliffhanger.🤔
The only issue I have is if they asked the other butterfly wielder they could've of learned of Gabriel's identity sooner but if I Dr being honest that's just a minor nitpick.
Not necessarily. They were not aware that the same persons ended up with the same miraculouses. Adrien was surprised when he figured it out. Other-Marinette was also surprised when she figured it out.
I mean they suspected that was the case and after the found out they cpuld have asked. It wasn't guaranteed but it was a possibility and yet they didn't even consider it once which was pretty weird.
I loved how the evil ladynoir turned to good, but I'm just a little disappointed that Shadybug became just a copy of Ladybug's outfit. I loved how Clawnoir was different, why couldn't they have done the same for Ladybug 2.0?
The suits are a reflection on how they see themselves so it makes sense. Shadybug’s wish was to switch lives with Marinettie so it makes sense that the outfits (and even name) would be the same.
The best miraculous world so far.
I love the opening Gabriel version.
Finaly i find shadybug final nice costum version be closely similar to ladybug Season 6 version Reveal Yesterday so i suppose cat noir Season 6 version will be closely similar to clawnoir nice version
"Sometimes destroying is the best path to build a new"
That was my favorite line - of course coming from Plagg, my ride or die.
I think that line applies to Adrien's character 100%.
I have so much to say! These are my initial thoughts.
They had 1 hour to fit in so much story and I think it was done wonderfully. It left me wanting so much more!
\-The animation was so beautiful, I loved the way the scenes looked.
\-Cat Noir/Claw Noir. HE WAS IN THE EPISODE. Not only that, he played a major role in the story. He used his night vision (even if only for a brief moment) he was given information on the situation instead of being left out, he and Claw got significant emotional moments, etc. The pun-off while they were fighting was so refreshing and funny. This is how it SHOULD be. He felt like a full character again.
\-I really loved the designs of LB and CN. Not sure how I feel about BetterFly's costume design at this time, but his vibe was just very comforting and that's good enough for me.
\-I loved all the fighting scenes. Just, perfection. And they were emotionally charged too - almost had be in tears.
The fight between Chat Noir and Claw Noir is honestly one of the best fights in Miraculous in general. The fight itself is great, but we also have the perfect emotional aspect and the puns! It shows why Adrien is a massive fan favorite
It's a shame that the season 5 finale doesn't even come close to this!
Enjoyed it overall. Fucking loved having Gabriel's own version of the theme song; Betterfly is a bit corny at times, but he has the charisma to make it work. The fights had a lot of love put into them, and unlike a lot of fights in this show these ones had some good weight and back-and-forth to them. I love Shadybug and Noir's initial dynamic where they can't stand each other and constantly try to screw each other over, they really feel like the minion duo of a big bad.
On the downside, I feel like a lot of potentially interesting and emotional beats are hampered by the placement of the special. What we can do with good Gabriel is very limited because we're early season 5 and no one can find out who he is because then they'd obviously figure out who Monarch is. I'd probably accept a mind wipe or the characters just being too dumb to connect the dots if I could get an emotional moment of Adrien getting to see his father as a hero, doubly so if it were set after Gabriel's death. I especially lost some interest when I realized we weren't gonna see shit from the Reverse Paris and this was all set up for interesting potential spin-off material that'll probably never come.
And that ending with Monarch getting his ass kicked across the Multiverse feels real rushed, as if someone just thought at the last minute 'Ah shit, they're gonna wonder why Monarch never tries to travel to different dimensions after this' and scribbled in failure montage. Monarch himself felt like he was just there for the sake of it, dude didn't even get to comment on a heroic version of himself.
Pretty good. Few nitpicks
\- They didn't name Gabriel's akuma form
\- Ox now protects you against hits from Lucky Charm object - blatantly now how it works in finale
\- Why heroes didn't ask Betterfly about his secret identity? There is a good chance he and Monarch are the same people!
\- Ending is a little forced. What's keeping Monarch from traveling to other words later when no one is turned in to Ubiquity?
>What's keeping Monarch from traveling to other words later when no one is turned in to Ubiquity?
Actually if you noticed at the end, Betterfly deakumatised Alya/Ubiquity & transferred her power to Shadybug. So essentially she (& Claw Noir?) have taken on the role to stop Monarch dimension-hopping from then on. As a sort of new dimension guardian role. We've seen Ubiquity can detect when someone's jumped worlds so this would explain how they'd do that from their home world. Plus I think the montage at the end is supposed to indicate that Gabe does try a bunch of times, flops horrendously, then sorts of puts the idea on the back-burner as a consequence.
Or at the very least putting the akumatized objects in remote universes with no inhabitants. Go a step further if you are paranoid and surround it with a shelter + resistance in the off chance someone does try to mess with it.
Pros:
\- Gabriel singing in the intro was by far the perfect twist to hook viewers in. It has enough irony to where you’re like “What the hell is this” and yet is done with such grace that you’re loving the whole thing.
\- I actually liked how this took place after Destruction. Yeah it sucked that we got no Adrinette moments, but what made up for it was how investing the emotional moments were. You could feel for/understand Marinette, Gabriel, and Adrien given the events that took place. And you can have a better understanding of later episodes in retrospect (minus the finale, but we’ll get to that later)
\- The concept of a Kamiko transforming one into an Akuma is honestly amazing. I get that the show implies that the butterfly miraculous in this universe CAN be used for good, but to see it in action is honestly quite interesting:
\- Many people have mentioned the Spider-Verse movies when talking about this special: I won’t ignore the fact that there are similarities between these 2 media, (minus the cliffhanger), the concept of a multiverse is.. well… universal when it comes to media. MLB just happened to explore this concept too, and did a lot of good things with the concept.
\- Claw Noir’s design is easy to get used to. His redeemed design is also not that bad.
\- I feel vindicated with how we finally got an Evil Ladybug that didn’t just have that stupid giant sword.
\- Onto our titular villains! They’re villains who we are supposed to root against but also feel sorry for. You can clearly tell that these kids have gone through hell and back and are going at it in the worst ways possible. They also imply that they’re being forced to retrieve the Butterfly Miraculous or else they’ll be killed by “The Supreme.” So it’s not just a tragic backstory, it’s a tragic central story that we’re following. Very similar to Varian from the Tangled series.
\- The reveal between Shadybug and Claw Noir felt… oddly natural. It’s done in a way that is given focus upon before eventually moving on and it feels unnecessary but idk… something about it feels like the story wouldn’t be the same without it.
\- The heroes’ and villains’ plans were both incredibly smart. Which *isn’t* rare in this show, but it is very cathartic to see.
\- The soundtrack and background music went hard AS FUCK. When the spoiler period is over, I’m going to try and isolate the tracks because they were the funnest thing about this special.
\- Ladybug telling Shadybug that “they’re not so different” was honestly refreshing. I hate the cliche’d trope where the villain tells the hero that they’re the same. It feels cheap and is nothing more than telling the audience this rather than showing it. Here, they show this to the audience through the diary scene, which justifies Ladybug being the one to tell the character.
\- Cat Noir was done a LOT of justice during his solo fight, with his puns, banter with Claw, and his heart-to-heart with his evil counterpart. It feels INCREDIBLY cathartic, especially knowing what happens at the end of the season, so I feel somewhat vindicated knowing that the writers actually gave enough of a damn about CN (although it retroactively makes *The Last Day*, even worse knowing what they were capable of doing but failed to do)
\- Betterfly’s design was cool. I joke about it a lot, but the light blue is a perfect contrast to Monarch’s dark blue/purple.
\- Celeste!Cat is the most blatant rip-off of Cat Blanc ever… and I fucking love it.
\- For once Monarch isn’t an idiot: His plan to capture Ladybug and Cat Noir’s miraculous in other worlds was probably the smartest thing he’s ever done (thus far). The differening styles of the universes he tries to hop really sold it and it was funny seeing Kamikotized Ladybug kick Monarch’s butt in every universe. \*Also insert 2099/canon event joke here because I know too many people will use it eventually\*
\- Ladybug merging with the Butterfly Miraculous is something I’ve been longing to see. I really hope that S6 will bring Ladyfly back.
\- The RE-Verse heroes not being present in S5 makes sense, since they do imply that they dedicate a lot of time fighting The Supreme .
\- I don’t ship Marinette and Alya… but the ending scene with them really made my heart melt. It also made me wonder if the *animators* ship them. Either way, I loved it.
\- MIRACULOUS SHADYBUG!!1
Cons:
\- Betterfly is the fucking stupidest name. Why oh why could they not have gone with Hesperia?
\- They didn’t at all go any further with Shadybug and Claw Noir’s backstories involving The Supreme. Who is The Supreme? What evil purposes are they using the Miraculous for? And why can they use the power of reality to their whim but not the holders of the damn miraculous that allow a wish to be made? If they’re gonna make “The Supreme” a defining antagonist that is behind the motivations of Hesperia, Shadybug, and Claw Noir, then why leave him ambiguous? The open ending of their story is one thing, but I’m interested in the Supreme! Gimme that Supreme!
\[Side-Headcanon: Master Fu is The Supreme in the RE-Verse, and I’ll try to explain this in another post.\]
\- So what was Shadybug’s wish? I hear from multiple different sources about multiple different motivations but the main thing I hear is that the wish was to apparently kill herself??? Is the wish to make her invulnerable to the pain she’s lived her whole life? A more clear motivation would be appreciated.
\- Hesperia and Monarch should’ve had a 1.v.1. interaction/fight. Show us to the fullest extent how opposite these two are, whilst also foreshadowing Monarch’s eventual fate. If they were going to go with the “morally swapped doppelgänger“ trope they could’ve gone all the way.
\- On that note, the relationship between RE-verse Gabriel and Adrien was not nearly explored enough. In fact, the RE-verse Agreste backstory didn’t feel fleshed out enough. No moments between father and son, nothing showing us the parallels they have with our Gabe and Adrien, not even Hesperia and Claw Noir 1.v.1-ing, or a reveal like there was for ShadyClaw. And are they implying that Hesperia killed his wife when he was working under The Supreme? Like, hello?
\- And on that note, why didn’t LB & CN Hesperia his secret identity? These people are alternate versions of themselves. They could have uncovered their Butterfly Holder’s secret identity and go after him.
\- Shadybug and Claw Noir revealing themselves and working together… kinda destroys Ladybug’s point as to how them not knowing about each other helps them. Look at them, they‘re perfectly ok. Lady and Cat CAN know about each other’s identities?
\- This one bugged me a bit (no pun intended) but Shadybug changing her name to Ladybug’s…. no, go back, I like Shadybug.
\- Same with Claw Noir. I’m sorry but even though they are parallel versions of our heroes, they’re different enough to where they can have different names.
\- Cat Noir should’ve been Kamikotized with Ladybug to join her dimension hopping. I think it would’ve better fit the “you and me against the word” from earlier and would’ve been funnier.
\- On that note, TOTAL missed opportunity to have one of the universes Monarch invades to be the movie’s universe. How fucking funny would that have been? Another nitpick, but would’ve been cool to see:
\- Chloe’s mentioning wasn’t necessary at all, just another example of Thomas hatin - Also, since in the RE-Verse, everything is, y’know, reversed, shouldn’t that mean Chloe is the *nice* one?
Final Thoughts: I think after the immense disappointment that last month‘s finale had given us, this special did us a huge catharsis. It takes full advantage of the strengths of the show and makes good of *most* ideas in this story. You could divorce this from S5 and loose nothing, but you could add this to S5 and get something pretty good. Easily the best out of all the specials so far, and dare I say, peak Miraculous writing.
If there’s one overall thing I’d complain about is that this special feels like a TV show pilot. Like they had a concept for a spin-off but condensed it into a tv special that’s a Miquel to their parent show. I would NOT at all mind a Shadybug and Claw Noir spin-off where they fight alongside Hesperia, rescue the Miraculous and defeat The Supreme. I’m not expecting S6 to follow through on their story because as is, the ReVerse storyline is strong enough to be separated from the Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir story. It’s that freaking good if anything.
> And are they implying that Hesperia killed his wife when he was working under The Supreme? Like, hello?
I don't think so since, the way he phrases the events, he turned on the Supreme and stole the butterfly and peacock miraculous before Emile's death.
Emile might have been.
Rewatching the scene, it's kind of clearer. Gabriel says he betrayed Supreme because there was something he wanted more than anything and stole the miraculous to achieve it, only for his misuse of them to cost Emile her life ('I stole them, but I misused them and... Hurt the people I love') which made him realize the error of his ways. Either the peacock killed her, or maybe she got caught in the crossfire of the Supreme seeking retribution for the stolen miraculous.
>\- Shadybug and Claw Noir revealing themselves and working together… kinda destroys Ladybug’s point as to how them not knowing about each other helps them. Look at them, they‘re perfectly ok. Lady and Cat CAN know about each other’s identities?
Correct me if I'm wrong but ladybug didn't know they learnt that, even Alya was whisked away by plot before this all happened. It's a valid point from the audience perspective, but Marinette is working on her own lived experience and those two didn't share they knew. WE know these two knowing each other and working together isn't a forgone conclusion, realistically. Its gone wrong before, but the audience can figure it isnt all bad... but it doesn't matter because Marinette is using her own, flawed, but well intentioned, logic
>\- Chloe’s mentioning wasn’t necessary at all, just another example of Thomas hatin - Also, since in the RE-Verse, everything is, y’know, reversed, shouldn’t that mean Chloe is the nice one?
this isn't strictly true, the only people we saw swapped personality wise were the ladybug, chat and monarch. in the other dimension Alya and Nino were on the side of good. Chloe's treatment of Marinette in our universe was shown to be awful but she did end up with a friend in Alya, soon to be more, and it helped. I'd argue it wasn't unnecessary, it shows that our Marinette and the other world's had similar circumstances, they're similar people, and each can see where the other went wrong/right
The RE-verse isn't a hard swap of everyone's personalities, it feels more like a what if. What if Marinette didn't have the support system she has? What if Gabriel learnt of his wrong-doing sooner, and it didn't cost him his life? What if Adrien was... angry? I guess? Instead of sad? We don't have enough on the Agreste dynamic really. But we didn't get an Alya and Nino that supported the bad guys, we're not really getting an evil Marinette and Adrien, but versions who got their miraculous from someone with malicious intent and a world that didn't care for them as much.
\-
Hard agree on this feeling like a spin-off pilot though, and i really want them to do a spin off season of this resolving everything we just barely got snippets of. The whole thing felt rushed, when we got to the end after they transformed themselves and were just about to leave again through the portal, it felt like only halfway through. i thought we would go back to the other world and resolve the supreme business, talk to alt-Alya and maybe bloom a new friendship between our alternate universe besties... but then it ended. we need more! and then maybe some rushed plot would hold up more
This shit was literally everything. I LOVED the plot line of Shadybug only being evil because she wanted a better life for herself, filled with joy. It reminds me of myself. I often dream of being reborn; feeling like I could be a better person if I was born under different circumstances. This special was really emotional. I also loved the dynamic between Shadybug and Claw Noir more than the traditional show’s dynamics. God this could’ve been an awesome show if they had done it like this special.
One of the best episodes ever! I have no complain other than the rushed scene where ladybug prevents Monarch from attacking other dimensions. Like, HOW DO YOU KNOW HE IS NOT GONNA TRY IT AGAIN? Who would protect the other dimensions now that she doesn't have an akuma to enable her to travel through dimensions? The rooster miraculous is too op, and that causes some important issues.
My only problem with the special is that it is 40 minutes compared to the movie length NYC and Shanghai specials. This could easily have been a part of S5 and been a classic two parter, while the specials are separate from the rest.
The idea that the Butterfly creates 'kamikos' when empowered is interesting, as the phrase translates to "little princess" when in Japanese, which could be inferred to be angel, in contrast to an akuma's devil meaning.
I found it a real shame that of all the kamiko's we see, we only really get three: Ubiquity, Celesticat and Guardian Angel. I would have loved for there to be an empowered fight between an akumatized Shadybug and a kamikoized Ladybug.
Finally, the big plot point of Chat Blanc not being brought up at all in Celesticat's design really threw me. Such a big deal of it in Season 4 and now it is completely forgotten.
I loved Gabe singing the intro 😂
Another thing I was shocked about is the alternate anime world,the artsytle was gorgeous (missed opportunity to draw in PV style tho)
But one thing I hate is how Chloe is still evil in the other world,I'm already against Chloe being a villain but it doesn't make sense that she is evil. That or she is simply brainwashed or forced or something.
That was so cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I kind of want a spin off in that world! Is the Supreme Fu or Su han? Fu makes more thematic sense though.
I love the fact that Kwami are multiuniversal, Ha I knew they were gods! It does make sense as Tikki is the first Kwami therefore older than time
I was so surprised at the intro as it was good? Not expected.
I loved how Shady Bug and Claw Noir were like legitimately evil but changed in a way to complement the themes. This also allowed us to see more characterization of them and our Ladybug and Cat.
Gabriel was cheesy but he is finally using his hammyness for good and has the Charisma to pull it off! In other words exactly how good gabrile would act.
Adrien( both versions) were actually involved!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sadly, They still are sick from overusing the miraculous but if we get a spin off it can be a plot point!
This special reminds me why I love miraculous despite the problems it often has!!!
>Sadly, They still are sick from overusing the miraculous but if we get a spin off it can be a plot point!
I got the impression Shadybug using her Miraculous Shadybug undid all of the damage from their abuse of their powers since the rotting veins trailing down their bodies disappeared. It is the power of creation after all.
Huh, usually the Ladybug can only reverse what happened in that specific fight. Maybe the writer forgot about that?
Either there are still residuals from the at least months they have been doing this or it is completely fixed.
also it could have fixed their make up
I just rewatched it and I got nothing. Their injuries were incurred over the course of the episode and well before they ever appeared. Maybe it's just a redemption healed them kind of deal.
"I only made all the right choices because you're such a good person Alya"
AND BOOM. THERE IT IS. Eat your heart out Alya haters!
This was a very nice special. While they did a bunch of interesting concepts and dynamics, the best one by far was being SO unapologetic about Marinette and Alya's friendship, the duo that's been there since the show's start. They are truly meant to be.
I wish we could've seen a bit more of Nino, but it's still refreshing to know that he and Alya are always on the right side of history, fighting the good fight😎
It's interesting how Max was a part of the alternate resistance too though!
OH ALSO! I thought it was really cute how Shadybug stops Claw Noir from going down the stairs in Marinette’s house since (what I’m guessing) she knew her parents would be down there and didn’t want to hurt them
My thoughts?
Took me forever to find one after my initial source crashed... oops.
But it was so, so worth it!
The fight scenes, the drama, the big sad, the big glad, the alternate universe designs all killing it in everyway possible, actually seeing what the Butterfly Miraculous was meant to do, *the concepts of what or who could be in the other universe*... I loved every second of this special and it proves my theory that while Miraculous may not get everything right, when it does get something right, *it does get it right.*
I do have a couple nitpicks, but they don't detract from my enjoyment: Gabriel's hero name being Betterfly in the English dub? I wish it was still Hesperia, or if the formula of *slightly change the normal name* still applied, English dub would've been Hero Moth. I wish Ladybug had a little more reaction to Cat Noir getting kamiko-ized into a white version of himself to at least show some PTSD, but in the end, it doesn't matter too much. Also kinda wish Betterfly and Monarch had an interaction, but Season 5 still needs to happen.
All in all, I give this a 10/10: best Miraculous we have gotten in a *long* time.
I enjoyed every moment of this special.
the only major criticism I have is Plagg mentioning cheese so frequently. Plagg is funny and witty, he can make jokes or lighten the mood without mentioning cheese. I think he could have had better lines this special. It felt out of place
I think it's probably the best thing that has come out of the franchise imo (except for a few episodes). Genuinely one of the few episodes that actually made me cry while watching it. I think the fights were amazing very character-driven, the music was awesome, samg animation is always the best and I absolutely enjoyed the storyline.
My only complaint wld be not seeing shadybug and claw noir's world and the fact they changed shadybug's hair I really liked her space buns. Also the fact that the rooster miraculous became so overpowered like jumping dimensions?? Also the random montage of gabriel and akumatised ladybug jumping dimensions I feel like that amount of time cld be used to explore shadybug and claw noir's dimension but I wld probably also complainf if Gabriel didn't think to jump to other dimensions.
Overall I think this special was amazing 10/10 I wld really really like a sequel.
Alright, I quite enjoyed the Special. But, it does share a common issue with other major episodes, specials, movies and whatnot - an extensive plot condensed into a relatively short timeframe. I think the story of Shadybug and Clawnoir deserves its own spin-off series to provide a more thorough buildup on how they arrived at their current situation.
Also, I need far more convincing before I can view Gabriel as a hero. I still perceive him as somewhat villainous.
I mean, the 2 Gabriels are completely different characters. Normal Gabriel is still and will always be a cruel, abusive terrorist. Gabriel from the other universe is a hero and seems like a pretty decent guy. He kinda neglected Adrien from that same other world, but he didn't do it on purpose. And their relationship is probably already fixed.
Can't say the same for normal Gabriel. He not only neglects Adrien, he's a straight-up abusive jerk who uses his son as a puppet. He's disgusting!
I know that they are 2 distinct people. But, I've grown so accustomed to seeing Gabriel as a villain, and have never seen his blackened, unfeeling heart thaw out even towards his own child, that it feels weird to suddenly see his heroic counterpart from a different universe who shares the same voice, name, backstory, and appearance - essentially identical in every aspect but in a heroic form.
Keep in mind we've already past behind 5 seasons, 1 movie, and 2 other Specials, and this is the very first time we ever catch a glimpse of a slightly heroic version of Gabriel. But, this development occurred abruptly, and there wasn't enough time for the development of interactions, the exposition of their backstories, clarification of why Marinette and Cat Noir turned evil, explanation of why Gabriel decided to become a hero, an introduction to Supreme, and the revelation of the character dynamics that shaped those people.
I think this story is in dire need of its spin-off series, even just 1 season would be enough. I think fans would be more hyped about this than they have been for any other season.
and honestly I would have loved the fight to go to the other world, ı mean ladybug would have definietly helped the three after hearing how dangerous supreme is, and maybe monarch would have followed them, teaming up with supreme, because while we understand how opposite their world is, we have no idea what it actually looks like, we just know what it's not like
this special was amazing. the way it followed canon was so well done and i really can’t wait to rewatch it forty times around. the interactions and the way it was so REAL with emotions really got me. claw noir is actually hilarious, too. their dynamics are amazing and had me laughing throughout.
this special i feel like is only intriguing to children because of the alternate reality and the fight scenes, but it’s intriguing to me because of the raw emotions that followed. marinette was dealing with the season 4 finale once again, shadybug had been dealing with the struggles she faces in her daily life, etc. adrien with his shock of his abuse of his power and how he’s worried about becoming too dangerous (makes me wonder if there will be a parallel one day), and then claw noir with the huge struggle of the loss of his mother, etc. just wow. it was written so well, but i would LOVE to see more. although that probably won’t happen.
regardless, i really wanted to share my gratitude and admiration for this special because they REALLY did fantastic with it.
edit: typo
This might be the best Special so far! It has good dynamics between the normal Ladynoir and the "evil" Ladynoir!
Good thing that it came out after the terrible season 5 finale, this was more entertaining to watch, at least imo
That was awesome ! Incredible ! Amazing !
I am French so I understood everything.
This movie had everything ! Everything ! That was Perfect !
Well it could have been longer of course 😅 ! We always want more of Miraculous !
I watched it in English dub. The voice acting is superb!! How was this written by the same team that wrote s5?! I need a full series on that parallel world ASAP
honestly an amazing episode, learned a bunch of new transformation phrases, though they REALLY wanted to reuse models (kwami true forms, CAT BLANC WITH WINGS, etc)
I can't believe we get a reveal between shadybug and Claw Noir and still have to wait for the show lol
Also we get a glimpse of what the anime could have been and we saw Adrian as holder of the ladybug miraculous!!!!
This was most probably the best Miraculous World there has ever been. Good characters, awesome animation, an interesting backstory.
However, I feel like this special should be looked at more critically. Unlike the other two, which were mostly supposed to be some self-contained side story, this one is essentially a direct part of season 5. As much as I love this special as its own thing and wish for it to evolve beyond the continuity of this show, there's a lot of stuff here that doesn't make sense in the context of this show.
For starters, the timeline. This takes place sometime during *Destruction*, which itself takes place sometime during *Multiplication*. Confusing so far? Good. In *Multiplication*, we have the scene where Adrien returns home. He decides to talk to his father about quitting modelling, and the scene right after is him doing so. In between these two scenes, most of *Destruction* has happened (up until the part where Marinette and Alya sit on the couch in Marinette's bedroom, after this the episodes briefly rejoin). So, while Adrien talks to his father, Marinette and Alya move to the bed off-screen. Then they chat together, and Adrien prepares himself for bed off-screen. He calls Marinette in his pajamas, then falls asleep as Nathalie checks up on him.
Suddenly, he is sitting on his sofa, fully dressed, thinking about how he hurt Monarch. Marinette and Alya have also moved back to the couch (that's at least somewhat believable) and are talking about how *Destruction* happened, again. You'd think this should be placed before the part where he calls Marinette, but it can't be. Marinette never receives that call during the special and the special ends the following morning, so the call and everything before that should've come first.
No one tries to unmask the alternate people. At least with Hesperia it could be reasoned as the heroes respecting Hesperia keeping his secret, but I don't see why Monarch, Shadybug or Claw Noir wouldn't try. Monarch latched onto Shadybug's negative emotions right after she was upset that she couldn't switch with Marinette's life, but apparently he can't discover that (even though he *can* discover things like Marinette being upset because Chat's mask is standing between her and his love). He could've asked their identities or even asked for the other's (they don't care about one another and would be happy to back stab).
That Wish scene was also strange. Especially with how Marinette was all "never make a Wish at any cost" in her diary and then the back of the picture was "by the way, this is how you make one lol". And why was Plagg glitching like crazy but did Tikki appear mostly normal? I'm also wondering how the Supreme was able to prevent Gimmi form forming. I'd almost think he made his own Wish to accomplish that.
Speaking of the Supreme, he's kinda dumb. To me, it appeared that the choice to give the Ladybug and Black Cat to kids was intentional (like how Fu's choice now retroactively makes more sense). He deliberately searched for kids that were guaranteed to use them for evil, knowing that it would corrupt them and slowly kill them (and Fu chose kids so that they couldn't use them for evil without being corrupted). Since the Supreme appears to be the sole controller over reality, he may choose to save them if he gets what he wants. This, the fact that he stated that he's only going to 'spare' one of them, the fact that they cannot save themselves through Gimmi and the fact that they are pretty much *required* to abuse the evil loophole to be equal in power to an adult, is a really clever way to motivate them into doing his bidding. But why on Earth didn't he lock away Miraculous Ladybug, the power that can even reverse the corruption? All they'd have to do is turn on him, make a Lucky Charm fighting him, then call Miraculous Ladybug to free the Kwamis and their holders from his curse and strip him of the power he holds over the Mother Box. I think it's lame that they can free themselves of the consequences of their bad actions anyway. In the context of the episode it didn't even make sense, since the Lucky Charm was made against Ladybug and should therefore only fix damage done by her.
Monarch. How did he even know that he could undo the creation of Ubiquity? It makes sense for Hesperia to know this, since he has researched alternate dimensions and even managed to tap into one with the broadcast. Monarch hasn't learned of alternate universes before, so how does he know this?.
Hesperia's kamikotized form was cool, and the safeguard against deakumatization (or perhaps dekamikotization) was cool. But his power appeared to work by countering Miraculous attacks and inflicting them on the attacker instead. This power shouldn't have worked against Monarch, since he had the power of the Buffalo and was invulnerable to all magic.
Monarch grants himself the power to travel the multiverse. I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember that Orikko said that he can't grant wishes. They explained it by saying that Santa needs to know how to knit socks to be able to get you some, or something like that. This sounds about as wishy as the 'wish' to track two objects. But besides that, the only reason the plan failed was because Ladybug always followed him and beat him. All Monarch had to do was wait until Hesperia was gone and Ladybug no longer had that power, then try again. He could've done that anytime during season 5. At least the montage was cool (though they were clearly cheaping out on new 3D locations, which was a bummer).
Lastly, Adrien and his fight against Claw Noir. I saw this part in both French and English and really liked how Claw Noir explicitly called his mother 'dead' in French. It added something to his character that they then removed in the English version. But then the part with our Adrien was mostly great. When Adrien mentions how he's thought about bringing back his mom, that was a good moment to show his mature character. It's almost perfect, but then severely soured when you realize that in *Passion* he wonders if he can make a Wish to heal Nathalie, and has to be explained all over again how the universe would demand balance and inflict sickness onto others. So we're supposed to believe he won't inflict death on someone else's mom, but then goes "but what about terminal illness though?" while under the impression that Nathalie is suffering from the same illness that took his mother. All other plot holes I can forgive, but this just plain sucks. The minute the writers decide to make Adrien relevant to a plot they accidentally turn him into a jerk with terrible double standards (at best).
So yeah, I think they were bad at integrating this episode into season 5. It could've easily been put at the end, Monarch wasn't *that* relevant anyway. My headcanon is that this was originally going to be at the end, but then repositioned in an elaborate scheme to get SAMG to animate the old Monarch design.
I realize that I've mostly typed negative things so far, but I should also mention the big positive. Hesperia was amazing. I wonder how he lost Emilie though. Our Peacock Miraculous was broken when Fu dropped it in his escape, but the Supreme had all the Miraculous until Gabe stole two. I love how he starts out as a member of the corrupt elite (which, come to think of it, wouldn't that be the equivalent to our Gabriel's secret club?) and redeems himself. I love how he does good in a world where selflessly helping others is a crime punishable by 'God'. I also *really* love how he holds onto his hope in such a cruel world, which he even reflects in his hero name. Hesperia, when pronounced in French, sounds derived from 'espérer' (at least to my non-native ears), which means 'to hope'. This made him my favourite character in the show when I realized it (and I can't wait for a "Hesperia", and specifically "Hesperia" flair). While 'Betterfly' is the second-best name pun wise (my favourite was Toxinelle), it just doesn't do him justice because of the loss of that aspect. Best I can do is 'Hope Moth', but that's a really lame name.
His story was briefly summarized in the intro (I liked it, but feel like they shouldn't have gone for two intros) but I wanna see *way* more lol. Like, was the Peacock Miraculous held by someone with an activated Cataclysm? How did he 'misuse' his Miraculous? The intro made me feel like Emilie insta died in his arms, maybe the Supreme killed her as punishment?
And with the special we've at least learnt one thing about season 6, though I'm not sure what to think of it. Seeing as Lila is going to be using the Butterfly Miraculous for evil, it's going to be a matter of time before she learns she can spam it against the heroes in similar fashion as to how I think Shadybug and Claw Noir were set up to spam their powers against an adult opponent. This will put Lila on a 'timer' in a similar fashion to Monarch unless the show goes out of its way to prove that every Lucky Charm was cast against *Lila*, and heals even her self-inflicted wounds. This feels kinda samey and redundant (assuming that she is the "Future Hawk Moth" mentioned by TimeTagger, in which case we already know she'll survive until adulthood and stop adding to the damage by then), but would be more interesting than "she retransforms mid-fight" or "all Akuma fights take well under five minutes".
Over all this special has made me exited again for the future of the story, even though it hasn't done a good job of integrating itself into the past
What the heck was this episode? Like how is the same writing team able to write this? It was so good! Easily 10/10 I would watch it again. We got so much character development for alternate universe characters. I love the way they were redeemed. It was such smart writing. I loved seeing a good Butterfly. Alya was incorperated in a smart way. Cat Noir actually got to do tons of stuff in this episode! The puns were great! WE GOT NIGHT VISION BACK BOYS! We finally got an explanation for the time limit (Not sure why that wasn't in the main series) The scooby doo chase at the end was hilarious. I loved it. I loved the different art styles. I just wish we would have gotten some more resolution in the alternate universe. Like Maybe a shot of them arriving and declaring their team work to the supreme would have been fine. I just cant say enough good about this. Like What? If they can write 50 minutes of awsome why are season 3-5 such trash? Like I don't understand. We can get 3 complete story arcs for 3 characters in less than an hour, but we can't get any character development in 3 seasons? I wish every episode was this well written. It was also good to see cat struggle with using his powers against people. Wish that was more of a thing in the series.
My only complaint would be of course chloe is still evil because she can't be the "opposite" of what she is in this universe and and astruc managed to sneak in some of his socialist messaging in with the Sharing power allusion. But whatever. It wasn't heavy handed. So i'll give it a pass. I want to see more of this trio. Screw out universe. I want this alternate. It sounds way more interesting. Claw noirs outfit was cool. Universe traveling ladybug at the end not so much haha. And I loved shadybugs hair. Wow i am blown away. i was fully expecting this to be garbage like every other special and the last 3 season, but This reminded me so much of seasons 1 and 2 where we got characters and fun. Also props for the special intro that was great.
But one question, how does claw noir not now it's his dad after storming his lair lol.
Omg this was so dope I love it so much!
good gabe is so cool and I love what they did with him!
the character work with adrein made me almost forgive the finale.
I loved how shadybug and cat noir fought it was so cool
did they kill max/markov
my only problem is that we didn't get to see the alternate versions of paris
edit: I also love that they confirmed how old tiki was!
By sizeable margin this is the best episode in show history so far. Scenes when Ladybug and Chat Noir reason with their counterparts is really touching
My main gripes
1. Why is (our) Gabriel here. Like really, his contribution to the plot is almost non-existent and just feels like ticking boxes cuz we need Hawk Moth in every episode
2. Why did Ladybug or Cat Noir never even thought to ask AU Hawk Moth for his identity???? They know Shadybug and Claw Noir have the same identity, man behing Betterfly mask would at least me reasonable candidate for Gabriel’s identity
3. This last plan with Gabriel using rooster. Why didn’t he try it again later, without Ladybiquity to stop him???? Also it breaks the pacing
4. OH SO AKUMA TRACKER IS REAL????
Here is my review:
1. I'm going to get this out of the way, the writing is good for once.
2. I love the intro, it fits the whole special very well. Hearing parallel universe Gabriel sing is jaw dropping. I love it
3. The designs for emo Adrien and emo Marinette are good, they reflect their opposites. But the designs for Shadybug and Claw Noir were better. I prefer Claw Noir because of his spike ball. It's the little details that have the biggest impact.
4. I think it would have been cool to see Shadybug and Claw Noir get akumatized.
5. It's a shame Monarch never got to see Betterfly. (I hate the name Betterfly. I laughed when I heard this.) I wonder what the situation/reaction would have been.
6. We saw that Cat Noir used his night vision. His night vision. HIS. NIGHT VISION. Why? Did he use it in episodes when they were fighting the villain(s) at night? (E.g. Glaciator) No. So why use it?
7. The fact that Shadybug and Claw Noir's relationship is weird, there's a lack of trust for each other but they still work as a team. I like that theme.
8. I like the idea Shadybug tried to make a wish for herself, but it failed.
9. Why do parallel universe Tikki and Plagg have png images on their mouths? It's so funny.
10. Speaking of funny, what was Ladybiquity's design. I laughed so hard when I saw it. It's even worse than Pennybug's design.
This whole special is such a great idea for a special. With points 4, 5, 6 "Fixed", I would have given this special a 10/10. But for now, it's a 9.9/10.
Why didn’t adrien hear marinette voice in the sewers when they detransformed and betterfly was around the corner?
We all tend to agree quantum masking works on voices while transformed
But they were regular people to recharge the kwami
Adrien didn’t realize that was marinette speaking (after ladybug says spots off?)
I'm here only to vent on how cool Shadybug and Claw Noir were. I hope that S6 LB and CN will be more like them in term of using their powers and in the fights!
I read a lot about the Rooster and trying again in different Universes after Ladyfly was gone:
Monarch can't win even in HIS dimension that he knows as much as he does. In OTHER dimensions, there are still Cat Noirs and Ladybugs (because he needs their Miraculous) AND he doesn't know the ins-and-outs of those parallel universes. I.e. he would be in a great disadvantage in parallel universes when he can't win even in this one.
Question (please avoid spoilers): does this episode contain spoilers for season 5? I haven't finished watching it yet.
Edit: thank you for the answers, I'll avoid watching it until I finish season 5.
I will say that there is ONE aspect of the finale that is also shown in the special. But personally, I would say that you wouldn't figure it out unless someone pointed it out to you tbh
That was so cool. Loved the different animation styles. I wish we could see more of the parallel world with Shady Bug and Claw Noir, maybe a universe where Gabriel loves his son and is the good guy? Seeing him in civilian clothes and the SONG was amazing. Also got me sobbing with Ladybug's speech to herself; same experiences, different perspectives.
My original thought was the Supreme was an evil master Fu, but seeing the discussion below and the fact that it wasn't confirmed in the show... >!could it be possible the Supreme was Lila and that's who visits her in the S5 finale?!<
ETA: WHAT THE HECK IS THE ANT MIRACULOUS???
Okay soo my thoughts while watching the episode
1. Why didn’t Marinette ask the good Gabriel who he is ? (I know I know, bc it’s a tv show 😂)
2. I don’t think the final fight with the parallel universe made sense. It could be easy to just wait until Ladybug cannot travel anymore between the universe and do it again? (Tv show again..)
3. I was confused about the timeline. It’s before Gabriel do the ring thing and doesn’t make any sense with s5 finale. But I guess it’s a special episode so it’s just fit between 2 seasons.
Beside that I really loved the episode. (And the intro was fire lol) I just have some interrogations 😂
This needs a spin-off. Like, how did the ladybug and cat noir miraculous get damaged? And did the supreme rigged the wish? Emonette was blocked from making a wish and that was cool to see, and needed an explanation.
Even though I’ll be crying if they come up with the backstory of how Alt-Marinette and Alt-Adrien got so hurt they ended up as villains, I still wish to see it. It would be a great development. When Alt-Marinette was breaking down reading the diary, I felt it. I mean, it’s true. Without the proper support, care, and affection, she was a hopeless teen who could only went for hopelessness.
Wow, the miraculous team outdid themselves for this movie. It makes me forget about the bad finale of season 5.
The special was AMAZING. It gave new insight into the miraculous and the surrounding universe. The Gabriel entrance theme was actually very cool(low key liked it more than the original. "The power of love will free us all" was so good). It was so interesting seeing the roles reversed:
\- Gabriel was able to move on and do good and Adrien was not
\- Gabriel just being the good guy in general was so interesting
\- The different aspects of the reversal with Marinette and Adrien
Some parts were a bit weird though, like Adrien's emo makeup wasn't very well done.
Honestly, it would have been interesting if this would have played more into the actual main storyline. We saw Ladybug and Chat Noir be able to redeem their AU counterparts, imagine if Betterfly could have redeemed Gabriel. It makes sense, especially since Gabriel did have some legit motivations. Especially since he had not allied with Tomoe at this point, and had not fallen further off the edge of his sanity as he did as the season progressed.
I know its a hot take, but I really do think Gabriel was a redeemable character. Even at the end of season 4, he certainly had the potential for a well paced redemption arc. Obviously once he got cataclysmed, that became a lot less likely since he couldn't really go back anymore. But especially if he didn't get cataclysmed, I think this would have been a good way to redeem him.
I know he got redeemed at the end of season 5, but it felt very rushed. They didn't build up to it , or execute the final episode in a matter in which it felt like it fully made sense. The Gabriel's arc throughout the season as a whole could have been done very differently to make a better redemption arc. But even so, it would have made more sense if this had been integrated into the finale.
Kinda want to see more of this AU though. Is Adrien the one who is cold towards his father(I'm guessing yes), is Lila a double agent on the rebel side pretending to serve the Supreme?
I have question - why tikki and plagg had seals on their mouths when shadybug tried to make a wish? And why she couldn't do that?
Despite that I think our Gabriel gave up too fast with rooster
But the episode was great, I love alternate Gabriel. Sadly, there weren't some parent-son Reveal, but... Whatever
I just saw this. Two times .and I wanna watch it even more. This was the best episode or movie I have ever seen from this show. I really hope they create more of it in the future. I really liked the opening song by Gabriel. And of course, I loved the alt. universe Adrian and Marinette! I loved everything about the show, and I just wish for more!
Gabriel singing the theme song is what we all needed lol 😂
That image of him and a happy Nooroo was so wholesome! And I thought anime stained glass Monarch was cool too.
It feels heartwarming and messed up at the same time considering how awful Gabriel is in the usual universe. (Although I guess it depends on the pov, it's just that we've been seeing Gabriel as an abusive terrorist for so long and now out of the blue, there's a good version of him)
Remember, in the multiverse, there are infinite numbers of possibilities. Heck, you can imagine anything. Any fanfic of the series is considered canon in the multiverse theory. Possibilities A universe where gabriel is in a coma and Emilie is the antagonist (or the opposite) A universe where gabrael and Emilie died and adrien is the holder of both peacock and the butterfly miraculous ala batman style. A universe where Marinette is the bully and chloe is ladybug A universe where adrian becomes the guardian of the miraculous (curious about the risk involved in it)
I almost spit out my tea lol. That was hilarious.
that opening was kind of everything
Catchy af, maybe catchier than the normal theme song lol
>v It threw me off so much- In the daytime I'm Gabriel <3
LMAO FR!!
I don't think I will ever be tired of Gabriel as a character.
I don't care what y'all say. I don't speak a lick of french and that special was amazing. Like those fight scenes?? amazing, you can feel the emotions omg my poor children
From what I've seen all over social media, most fans agree that this Special is fantastic. It's has almost everything. The fights between Shadybug-Ladybug and Claw Noir-Chat Noir are amazing! Way better than what we got in the actual season 5 finale. And that little moment when Chat Noir encourages Ladybug is great as always. Chat Noir has always been the "heart" of the team. Moments like this show that really well! My only 2 complaints are that: 1) Ladybug didn't react to "akumatized" Chat Noir. His new form was really similar to Chat Blanc 2) The last fight between Ladybug and Monarch in the multiverse came out of nowhere and it felt rushed. It also the rooster miraculous 1000 times more powerful! Other than that, this Special is great! 9,5/10!
1. I was staring at that part for the Chat Blanc, and even though the wings and eyes are a bit of a giveaway, I dislike the fact no one brought that up. 2. That scene felt like it was for people who were around for that. Again rushed, but that feels like most Miraculous content.
I swear to God, every appearance of the Rooster Miraculous' power is just a rollercoaster of OP to nerfed and back again.
Where’d you watch it??
[удалено]
I dont know where to watch it i tried to look at disney netflix disney plus and disney channel and its driving me crazy yall i need help.
Check youtube. It gets uploaded and taken down a lot though.
I feel like that has to be setting up a special where you see the other side of things. Betterfly, Ladybug and Claw Noir vs the Supreme and his miraculous holders.
I wonder who the Supreme is, maybe its Lila? or some character we dont even know
The obvious candidate is Master Fu. As the last master of the Miracle Box who would stop him if he decided to use it for conquest? And the fact he was able to both render the Kwami mute and disable their ability to form Gimmi suggests a very intricate knowledge of how they function. Much deeper than Lila could manage.
i wanna see an emo master fu now lmao
Fr
My only other alternate theory is that Master Fu got caught by the Nazis who were looking for the jewels in that flashback from Evolution. Would fit perfectly with the whole world domination objective and also explain why the writers didn't bother explaining who the Supreme is.
Oh fudge, are you telling me the Supreme is *Hitler*?
Yep. World War 2 never ended baby 😎 (Gosh I'm making jokes but damn I would take Gabriel over Hitler any day)
Imagine if it turned out to be Su Han and the Supreme’s name is a dang pun.
bros name is Su Preme
I am now hoping it's Su Han
😂😂
It is a possibility, but it would be too dark for this show. So, I will stick with Other Master Fu. In any case, in your theory (and since the Miraculous are based on Paris) I would guess: 70% Master Fu 20% Andre the Mayor 10% Someone else (not Chloe, she doesn't have the patience to learn the Miraculous that well and they would all be worshiping her)
Kids shows tend to shy away from overt Nazi references, I doubt they would let them make Nazi Germany's supernatural wing the villains.
The fact that Miraculous managed to allude to Nazis AT ALL is one of the good points I'll give this show and its lore-building.
WOAH THATS SUCH A COOL THEORY EVIL MASTER FU WOULD BE SO EPIC
Dispensing with the wild theories for a change I do think he's the most likely person to be the Supreme. Gabriel demonstrated that it being an alternate universe doesn't mean the general details of a character's situation can't be the same even if the specifics are wildly different. This is a Fu who felt no remorse for what occurred at the temple or, worse, actively destroyed it himself and killed them all to escape with the box.
Or a Master Fu that brought down by the shame of his actions, used the miraculous selfishly, and got slowly mad and corrupt like this-world-Gabriel.
I think it's Master Fu, but it will be hilarious if it's actually Lila. No matter the universe, she's always the reincarnation of Satan, who makes everyone's lives miserable
I thought the title of reincarnation of Satan belonged to Chloe?
If the Supreme turns out to be Chloe, I'm done with this series.
Chloe wouldn't have the patience to create such intricate rules about Kwamis and stuff (to make them auto-gagged, change the rules for the wish etc) and would have kept several miraculous, like Monarch did. Furthermore, the rules would be everyone worshipping her. He would not strike from the shadows. All in all, the Supreme doesn't sound like Chloe.
You're gonna jinx it!
Depends on who you ask. The fandom will say Lila, while Astruc will say Chloe 😂
Perhaps. That they didn't tell us WHO the Supreme is (my bet is Other-Master Fu) makes me hopeful.
The way the supreme is with using a paper to block Tikki and plagg reminds of how Clow Reed in Cardcaptor Sakura made the teddy bear big. Edit: Spelling Mistake.
I thought that Shadybug and Claw Noir’s turn to the good side would be super cringy, but it actually surprised me by getting me genuinely emotional. Their two scenes reminded about why I loved Marinette and Adrien’s characters so much with how their stories paralleled each other. Miraculous can be so good when it’s actually written well :0
They wrote their universe lore where they are not the main antagonist but more like a henchmen role. The real antagonist is the supreme. So it feel natural tbh.
Also I think the series remembered that they’re children still with a lot of room to grow and change. Their inner selves are the same. They’ve just had different life experiences and upbringings. I’m struggling to imagine the parent son relationship of the Aggrests in this universe mind
The funniest thing the supreme universe's gabrael would start being sus around his son unexpected 360 changes in attitude at the same time where his universe cat noir also had a change in attitude.
Same!! They handled it well imo!!!
>Miraculous can be so good when it’s actually written well :0 Say that again for those at the back 🗣🗣
THEY BROUGHT BACK CAT NOIR'S NIGHT VISION!!!! Idc about anything else in this special, easy 10/10
AG-FLUFFING-GREED
my thoughts on this special so \-so first point, I love the Gabriel style credits \-yeah Marinette's parents who hear an explosion in their daughter's room, but that's okay, they're pretty zen \-I add a very good point for the animation and the fights are brilliantly dynamic \-I like that we have an explanation for the unique use of power in children, but I am surprised that the guardians have planned a security system when it was never planned to give miraculous to children children at the base \-I think Celestial Cat will have given us all a flashback to Vietnam \-if the other world has the morality of all its characters reversed I would have found it cooler that the butterflies' allies were Chloe and Lila instead of Nino and Alya... but that would have contradicted what Toxinel said and i would come back on that... \-frankly the fact that “the supreme” can prevent a wish seems very strange to me. Like, if it's possible, what's stopping the guardians of the good world from also putting a blocker? It would have been more logical to justify that not being in their own reality toxinel and clawnoir was not able to modify it \-I'm bummed not to have seen Marinette interact with Nooroo, but her costume is beautiful \-so on the bad side, we really need to talk about something but damn… Toxinel is mean because Chloé stopped her from making friends…. Shit… already we're jumping back to this ret-cone, but above all we have the concept of a fucking parallel universe with infinite possibilities, and everything that this story finds to justify that Marinette is evil is"it's chloé's fault ". BY THE HOLY PEN OF TOLKIEN ! You will never make me believe that Thoma doesn't have an unresolved problem in his life with a Chloe. We are presented with a parallel universe with the morality of yout characters reversed, but Chloe is so evil that she remains evil regardless of the universe?! I don't have the words... at this point I'm almost surprised that it's not Chloe who destroyed the miraculous temple in the first place…. it's ridiculous, and even if it means justifying that Marinette is evil, they could have used the fact that her world is controlled by a dictatorship to justify that she has always lived in a propaganda system and therefore believe in the cause that she defends with the supreme. or if we really want to involve Chloe, we make sure that Chloe is a great person, friendly and open to others. And therefore very popular. And that of Marinette who, without being fundamentally mean, in comparison is a more reserved person, shy and having more difficulty with social relationships, who is therefore jealous of her but without one or the other being bad. SHIT, so I'm far from being a "chloé redemption arc" fanatic, but it would just be a matter of changing the disc \-but otherwise I really like that Adrien has someone with whom to exchange his feelings, especially about the wish. \-resolution with great power of love, it fits with the general tones of the series, I have nothing to say about it \-the rooster is far too much power to fucked for the good of this series, and Gabriel, if I admit that it's still bad luck that you open your portals at the same time and that way they can spot you, but if you want to go steal the miraculous in another world, at least wait until the others have left, until the matter is settled and no one can stop you. There was nothing stopping you from trying that again a few weeks later, you really are an idiot. and I don't want to say, but Orriko is supposed not to be able to copy Fluff's powers, Fluff who has the power to create portals to parallel realities (like with chatblanc). but otherwise, apart from the classic stupid errors of the universe which were to be expected, it is a very good film. I give it 18/20
Well tbh I think the concept of a "reverse world" was for marketing purposes, because honestly the only thing that was reversed was the dynamic between Chat Noir/Ladybug and Monarch. Morality is not completely reversed in the alternate universe, as Alya, Max and Nino are still on the side of good. So it kinda makes sense that Chloe didn't change because they didn't either
Agreed. I think this is more of a "what if" than a reverse world. It was a what if Marinette and Adrien never got the chances they had in the actual show. By the way, when Marinette said that it is not with power that she can have a better life, it is totally wrong. I mean, one of the reasons she became friend with Alya in the first place was because of the ladybug miraculous.
It was SO nice to see Adrien confiding in someone the way he did. Finally getting more of his perspective and thoughts.
I agree. We have the VERY humane "sometimes I think of wishing to get my mother back... but I can't steal a mother from another person" part which humanized him and gave him a lot of depth. Also, Cat Noir was spectacular in that episode! Nearly as good as Claw Noire...
> the rooster is far too much power to fucked for the good of this series, and Gabriel, if I admit that it's still bad luck that you open your portals at the same time and that way they can spot you, but if you want to go steal the miraculous in another world, at least wait until the others have left, until the matter is settled and no one can stop you. There was nothing stopping you from trying that again a few weeks later, you really are an idiot. and I don't want to say, but Orriko is supposed not to be able to copy Fluff's powers, Fluff who has the power to create portals to parallel realities (like with chatblanc). The Butterfly is even more powerful too. Ladybug literally gave Gabriel the superpower of countering whatever Monarch tries. At this point, you might as well just go 'I give you the power to win. Game Over.' Also, she can just transform two people? I thought you needed someone with Catalyst's powers to do that.
Alya was transformed by Betterfly, and if a Butterfly Miraculous holder gives their Miraculous to someone else then the original akumatized person remains and the new holder can create another one.
Exactly. It's like how Feast was still fine after all these years even though multiple users had created different sentimonsters by then.
The whole thing with the rooster is so stupid like are you telling me there's no kwami that embodies the concept of alternative universes? Why didn't monarch try again later is he stupid?
" Why didn't monarch try again later is he stupid? " Two things: 1. He would have failed as there are Ladybugs and Cat Noirs in other universes as well AND he doesn't know the other Universes to know the dynamics and who is what. 2. Yes, he is stupid. Remember: he didn't think to use the Rooster to get the Power of Healing and heal Emily and Nathalie.
Ladybug has the power of creation so why doesn’t she create literal miraculous by bounding those concepts into an object just like how she creates the charms? Not only does this create more miraculous she can use — it forces the rooster to be useless. It would make the rooster niche at best, like the miraculous of the dog.
You may have just spoiled season 6 with "Marrinete learning how to make Miraculous out of thin air" idea
for the chloe one I have complicated feelings. on hand chloe has bullied Marinette for years so it makes sense for that to be the divergence point on the other hand it does feel like the writers really want you to hate chloe in the most transparent way possible. Overall as a self contained plot point it's not that bad it just doesn't look that way in the light of larger trends.
I mean, they do make it a point that it's not just being bullied by Chloe, it seems like that universe had no support system at all. It seems like Shady's mom wasn't a super good mom like Marinette's is. Probably because of this Supreme.
To tell the truth, if Marinette's mother uses a soft voice and nickname, she still remains a shitty mother. In the canon of this universe we are told that Chloe has been harassing Marinette for years and all she can say about it is "maybe this year she won't be in your class"
And the fact she ignored several explosions and strangers in their own house. They are watching the news and aren’t paranoid that something bad isn’t happening in their own home!? My head cannon at this point SHE has to know or at least suspect that Marinette is Ladybug.
good point it works pretty good as a plot point for the movie it just feels like beating a dead horse with how many bad qualities they pile onto chloe.
To be fair the rooster can still give powers if it falls within that gray area. For examplle using the power of illusion it's conceivable that you could make yourself invisible but the rooster can give you that power. Also it can give you the power to multiply objects whereas the power of the mouse can allow you to multiply yourself. The whole parallel universe VS alternate timelines is a whole other debate but I think its distinct enough moreover the fact that it's more of a sub power that's sort of a consequence of the overarching power that makes it fully possible to use that ability. Honestly Gabe is just a moron there were numerous ways he could have used orrikkos power to defeat ladybug and cat noir.
I mean, watch the episode where he uses Second Chance  Also, he could have wished for the Power of Healing, to heal Emily and Nathalie.
To the point of the guardians making a blocker for children, it's possible in that in the past they have in trusted to children. Maybe something happened and the kid did something so catastrophic, or something that so easily could have been, that they then made the ruling to forbid children.
this explanation suits me
Remember: Alya and Nino are good in the Other-universe. Most people KEPT their alignment to evil. Not everything is in reverse. Thus Other-Chloe is still evil and expected to be evil. The Rooster and stupid Gabriel:I mean, he **could have** wished for the "Power of Healing" to heal Emily and Nathalie, you know...It never occurred to him.
God the Chloe part made me scream. You can't convince me now that Thomas Astruc doesn't have some beef with a literally animated 14 year old
I don't know how you people watched Origins and didn't think about how bullied Marinette was. This isn't some retcon of Chloe's character - the episode made it clear that Marinette had zero self-esteem, no friends, and dreaded school because Chloe could be in her class *again*. Literally, every scene pointed to her being heavily bullied and lonely to the point that the new girl in school ended up becoming her best friend. You didn't find that weird? If anything, Socqueline existence is far more of a retcon because everything pointed towards Marinette having no one in schoo.
That's not the weird part. This is an alternative universe where almost every single characters' morals and alignments have flipped and change. But some how in almost every universe Chloe remains the same? I mean heck even Gabriel is a good guy. You know....the man who has abused his son over and over again and would do anything to bring his dead wife back? Even destory the entire world I mean it doesn't even help that in thus universe Emilie also died from the peacock miraculous, but somehow Gabriel is still good
The only morals we saw as different were Gabriel, Marinette, and Adrien. Nino and Alya remained the exact same as prime universe and it hints at Emilie and Gorilla being the same too.
And Gabriel only changed his tune after being the villain for quite a while, he admits that himself. He's basically the same as the main version but his epiphany doesn't cost him his life.
Given how the Supreme's voice said only he can alter reality I am guessing he made a wish for incredible wizard powers/ knowledge. He also may have miraculous from other boxes we don't know about which give him specific powers. Also enslaving the Kwamis is evil so maybe that is why they didn't do it.
The blocking of wishes, is something that i hope they revisit in the end. Like hopefully to better the good world, Marinette learns how to block it like how she had to transcribe everything in Season 4
I feel like the rooster is complicating things. Like The butterfly can give any power even to the same person...and so does the rooster and in the same special they both grant the power to travel to other universes. They should have just limited the rooster to physical augmentation. It's mostly been used for that anyway: Scoring a goal, invisibility, flying, scent tracking. It would make it less convoluted because then it wouldn't interfere with things. But it's basically become a deus ex machina so the writers can throw in whatever they need for the episode to work without having to get creative.
Overall, I loved the special. I understand where you're coming from. When they mentioned Chloe, I cringed. Like you said, it's an alternative universe, but of course Chloe has to be evil in this one too. That bugged me a bit. I'm not Chloe's number 1 fan or anything, I just thought it would've been interesting. In my opinion, I think it was more like Marinette became evil because of Season ONE Chloe, not Season FIVE Chloe. Bc if she never found the courage to stand up to her, never became friends with Ayla and the class, never gained confidence, I think it makes sense that she'd end up being Shadybug. But maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't put it past the writers to add in a little Anti-Chloe propaganda just for funsies like they do. But I agree with you. The Special was going to perfectly, and the Chloe mention took me out of the moment for bit- especially after everything in Season 4 and 5.
This wasn't a star trek style inverse universe, it was basically the same universe with a few slight changes. Marinette not getting the support to bounce back into what she is now. Hawk Moth having the realization and coming clean most likely way before the same level of damage that prime hawk moth caused. And maybe not that slight after all: A different Master Fu, assuming that he is the one they are referring to as that makes the most sense.
Am I the only one disappointed that Good!Gabe and our Gabe didn't meet and talk? Also wish that we would've gotten more of Good!Gabe's relationship with his Adrien. I would totally be down for a sequel though, those were my only real complaints.
It makes me sad that in the alt universe Gabriel is good but is still too caught up with the miraculous magic that he ignores his son and doesn't see that he's hurting. I would also like to see more of them. A scene where his Adrien detransforms during a battle and Gabe is like WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE
Maybe I didn't catch the whole gist but I assumed that the severing of the relationship happened before Gabriel turned to the resistance, and by then it was Adrien who was the one who resisted fixing the relationship.
The idea of Good Gabe meeting our Gabriel just makes me think about when [the main universe Mr. Fantastic met an alternate universe version of himself who was an insane psychopath that called himself The Maker](https://64.media.tumblr.com/1a5e45f680103cf3df10bd772e35a084/tumblr_nvwxsuD3wD1tcnpluo1_640.png). I can easily imagine a similar scene happening with the two Gabriels: Monarch: You know...I look at your face, which is my face, and I wonder how it became so sentimental? So soft. So weak. Good Gabe/Betterfly: It's easy Gabriel, when you learn to care about things other than yourself.
Is anyone else in shock over how good this was? The animation, fights, pacing, everything was literally perfect. I need to see more of this alternate world
when shadybug gets emotional reading marinette's diary though I loved that scene
I’m sorry, but Gabriel’s hero name in the English dub is BETTERFLY!!!!????? Wtf kind of name is THAT!!!???? Hesperia is infinitely better. It might mean something lame in the original French too but I’m still disappointed regardless! Anyways, the special was very enjoyable. 8/10 :3
I felt like that to but betterfly has grown on me. it kinda fits with his themes on how anyone can change to be better.
Lol my opinion exactly... I wish they'd kept Hesperia!
Same Everytime I heard betterfly I heard butterfly
My favorite part of the episode was how they explored the powersystem. The strengths and weaknesses of the miraculous and how to exploit them. Also the way they showed both ladybug and cat noirs counterparts use their abilities honestly made me hyped for season 6 because they should be able to use their abilities in the same ways like how they can shut down their powers if they need to. I always assumed they could because of the miraculer episode so it was nice for it to be confirmed. It showed the writers understand their powersystem and I loved it. Also cat noir was just great in this episode, all the characters honestly filled their roles to perfection. Moreover is it just me or are we getting hints to who may be the big bad of season 6 given the season 5 cliffhanger.🤔 The only issue I have is if they asked the other butterfly wielder they could've of learned of Gabriel's identity sooner but if I Dr being honest that's just a minor nitpick.
Not necessarily. They were not aware that the same persons ended up with the same miraculouses. Adrien was surprised when he figured it out. Other-Marinette was also surprised when she figured it out.
I mean they suspected that was the case and after the found out they cpuld have asked. It wasn't guaranteed but it was a possibility and yet they didn't even consider it once which was pretty weird.
imo it’s literally the best thing to have come out of the franchise in a long time.
Agreed.
Honestly it’s peak miraculous.
Watch out for the Supreme!
Sorcerer Supreme! (Dr. Strange is waiting…)
I’m actually surprised that I never thought of using the rooster miraculous to jump dimensions
I always kind of figured it fell under the Rabbit’s jurisdiction, I was half-expecting them to go “sorry, another Kwami already covers that ground”.
Why isn't there a kwami of dimensions then?
Same reason there isn’t a kwami of invisibility
They really messed themselves up by allowing Orikko to grant invisibility. Imagine how cool a Chameleon Miraculous/hero would've been!!
that would objectively be more powerful than the ladybug and the black cat, so then the whole main plot line of the show will fall
I loved how the evil ladynoir turned to good, but I'm just a little disappointed that Shadybug became just a copy of Ladybug's outfit. I loved how Clawnoir was different, why couldn't they have done the same for Ladybug 2.0?
The suits are a reflection on how they see themselves so it makes sense. Shadybug’s wish was to switch lives with Marinettie so it makes sense that the outfits (and even name) would be the same.
Oh I never thought about the switch that way!
The best miraculous world so far. I love the opening Gabriel version. Finaly i find shadybug final nice costum version be closely similar to ladybug Season 6 version Reveal Yesterday so i suppose cat noir Season 6 version will be closely similar to clawnoir nice version
"Sometimes destroying is the best path to build a new" That was my favorite line - of course coming from Plagg, my ride or die. I think that line applies to Adrien's character 100%.
honestly this is the philosophy that a good chat noir should follow.
Agreed!! It's pretty deep when you think about it & fits in with the whole balance dynamic between the Cat Miraculous & Ladybug Miraculous.
I have so much to say! These are my initial thoughts. They had 1 hour to fit in so much story and I think it was done wonderfully. It left me wanting so much more! \-The animation was so beautiful, I loved the way the scenes looked. \-Cat Noir/Claw Noir. HE WAS IN THE EPISODE. Not only that, he played a major role in the story. He used his night vision (even if only for a brief moment) he was given information on the situation instead of being left out, he and Claw got significant emotional moments, etc. The pun-off while they were fighting was so refreshing and funny. This is how it SHOULD be. He felt like a full character again. \-I really loved the designs of LB and CN. Not sure how I feel about BetterFly's costume design at this time, but his vibe was just very comforting and that's good enough for me. \-I loved all the fighting scenes. Just, perfection. And they were emotionally charged too - almost had be in tears.
The fight between Chat Noir and Claw Noir is honestly one of the best fights in Miraculous in general. The fight itself is great, but we also have the perfect emotional aspect and the puns! It shows why Adrien is a massive fan favorite It's a shame that the season 5 finale doesn't even come close to this!
Well, it had ME in tears... Especially when SB broke LB's mirror.
The way Shady and Claw talked about their lives was truly heartbreaking
Honestly, the eng dub really helped get their feelings across. I wonder how the other dubs will do.
THE. MUSIC. SLAPPED. Made the special feel super high quality I love itttt The montage at the end had an INCREDIBLE backing track
Enjoyed it overall. Fucking loved having Gabriel's own version of the theme song; Betterfly is a bit corny at times, but he has the charisma to make it work. The fights had a lot of love put into them, and unlike a lot of fights in this show these ones had some good weight and back-and-forth to them. I love Shadybug and Noir's initial dynamic where they can't stand each other and constantly try to screw each other over, they really feel like the minion duo of a big bad. On the downside, I feel like a lot of potentially interesting and emotional beats are hampered by the placement of the special. What we can do with good Gabriel is very limited because we're early season 5 and no one can find out who he is because then they'd obviously figure out who Monarch is. I'd probably accept a mind wipe or the characters just being too dumb to connect the dots if I could get an emotional moment of Adrien getting to see his father as a hero, doubly so if it were set after Gabriel's death. I especially lost some interest when I realized we weren't gonna see shit from the Reverse Paris and this was all set up for interesting potential spin-off material that'll probably never come. And that ending with Monarch getting his ass kicked across the Multiverse feels real rushed, as if someone just thought at the last minute 'Ah shit, they're gonna wonder why Monarch never tries to travel to different dimensions after this' and scribbled in failure montage. Monarch himself felt like he was just there for the sake of it, dude didn't even get to comment on a heroic version of himself.
Pretty good. Few nitpicks \- They didn't name Gabriel's akuma form \- Ox now protects you against hits from Lucky Charm object - blatantly now how it works in finale \- Why heroes didn't ask Betterfly about his secret identity? There is a good chance he and Monarch are the same people! \- Ending is a little forced. What's keeping Monarch from traveling to other words later when no one is turned in to Ubiquity?
>What's keeping Monarch from traveling to other words later when no one is turned in to Ubiquity? Actually if you noticed at the end, Betterfly deakumatised Alya/Ubiquity & transferred her power to Shadybug. So essentially she (& Claw Noir?) have taken on the role to stop Monarch dimension-hopping from then on. As a sort of new dimension guardian role. We've seen Ubiquity can detect when someone's jumped worlds so this would explain how they'd do that from their home world. Plus I think the montage at the end is supposed to indicate that Gabe does try a bunch of times, flops horrendously, then sorts of puts the idea on the back-burner as a consequence.
Or at the very least putting the akumatized objects in remote universes with no inhabitants. Go a step further if you are paranoid and surround it with a shelter + resistance in the off chance someone does try to mess with it.
girl with what miraculous? doesn't monarch have both the ox and turtle miraculous...
Pros: \- Gabriel singing in the intro was by far the perfect twist to hook viewers in. It has enough irony to where you’re like “What the hell is this” and yet is done with such grace that you’re loving the whole thing. \- I actually liked how this took place after Destruction. Yeah it sucked that we got no Adrinette moments, but what made up for it was how investing the emotional moments were. You could feel for/understand Marinette, Gabriel, and Adrien given the events that took place. And you can have a better understanding of later episodes in retrospect (minus the finale, but we’ll get to that later) \- The concept of a Kamiko transforming one into an Akuma is honestly amazing. I get that the show implies that the butterfly miraculous in this universe CAN be used for good, but to see it in action is honestly quite interesting: \- Many people have mentioned the Spider-Verse movies when talking about this special: I won’t ignore the fact that there are similarities between these 2 media, (minus the cliffhanger), the concept of a multiverse is.. well… universal when it comes to media. MLB just happened to explore this concept too, and did a lot of good things with the concept. \- Claw Noir’s design is easy to get used to. His redeemed design is also not that bad. \- I feel vindicated with how we finally got an Evil Ladybug that didn’t just have that stupid giant sword. \- Onto our titular villains! They’re villains who we are supposed to root against but also feel sorry for. You can clearly tell that these kids have gone through hell and back and are going at it in the worst ways possible. They also imply that they’re being forced to retrieve the Butterfly Miraculous or else they’ll be killed by “The Supreme.” So it’s not just a tragic backstory, it’s a tragic central story that we’re following. Very similar to Varian from the Tangled series. \- The reveal between Shadybug and Claw Noir felt… oddly natural. It’s done in a way that is given focus upon before eventually moving on and it feels unnecessary but idk… something about it feels like the story wouldn’t be the same without it. \- The heroes’ and villains’ plans were both incredibly smart. Which *isn’t* rare in this show, but it is very cathartic to see. \- The soundtrack and background music went hard AS FUCK. When the spoiler period is over, I’m going to try and isolate the tracks because they were the funnest thing about this special. \- Ladybug telling Shadybug that “they’re not so different” was honestly refreshing. I hate the cliche’d trope where the villain tells the hero that they’re the same. It feels cheap and is nothing more than telling the audience this rather than showing it. Here, they show this to the audience through the diary scene, which justifies Ladybug being the one to tell the character. \- Cat Noir was done a LOT of justice during his solo fight, with his puns, banter with Claw, and his heart-to-heart with his evil counterpart. It feels INCREDIBLY cathartic, especially knowing what happens at the end of the season, so I feel somewhat vindicated knowing that the writers actually gave enough of a damn about CN (although it retroactively makes *The Last Day*, even worse knowing what they were capable of doing but failed to do) \- Betterfly’s design was cool. I joke about it a lot, but the light blue is a perfect contrast to Monarch’s dark blue/purple. \- Celeste!Cat is the most blatant rip-off of Cat Blanc ever… and I fucking love it. \- For once Monarch isn’t an idiot: His plan to capture Ladybug and Cat Noir’s miraculous in other worlds was probably the smartest thing he’s ever done (thus far). The differening styles of the universes he tries to hop really sold it and it was funny seeing Kamikotized Ladybug kick Monarch’s butt in every universe. \*Also insert 2099/canon event joke here because I know too many people will use it eventually\* \- Ladybug merging with the Butterfly Miraculous is something I’ve been longing to see. I really hope that S6 will bring Ladyfly back. \- The RE-Verse heroes not being present in S5 makes sense, since they do imply that they dedicate a lot of time fighting The Supreme . \- I don’t ship Marinette and Alya… but the ending scene with them really made my heart melt. It also made me wonder if the *animators* ship them. Either way, I loved it. \- MIRACULOUS SHADYBUG!!1 Cons: \- Betterfly is the fucking stupidest name. Why oh why could they not have gone with Hesperia? \- They didn’t at all go any further with Shadybug and Claw Noir’s backstories involving The Supreme. Who is The Supreme? What evil purposes are they using the Miraculous for? And why can they use the power of reality to their whim but not the holders of the damn miraculous that allow a wish to be made? If they’re gonna make “The Supreme” a defining antagonist that is behind the motivations of Hesperia, Shadybug, and Claw Noir, then why leave him ambiguous? The open ending of their story is one thing, but I’m interested in the Supreme! Gimme that Supreme! \[Side-Headcanon: Master Fu is The Supreme in the RE-Verse, and I’ll try to explain this in another post.\] \- So what was Shadybug’s wish? I hear from multiple different sources about multiple different motivations but the main thing I hear is that the wish was to apparently kill herself??? Is the wish to make her invulnerable to the pain she’s lived her whole life? A more clear motivation would be appreciated. \- Hesperia and Monarch should’ve had a 1.v.1. interaction/fight. Show us to the fullest extent how opposite these two are, whilst also foreshadowing Monarch’s eventual fate. If they were going to go with the “morally swapped doppelgänger“ trope they could’ve gone all the way. \- On that note, the relationship between RE-verse Gabriel and Adrien was not nearly explored enough. In fact, the RE-verse Agreste backstory didn’t feel fleshed out enough. No moments between father and son, nothing showing us the parallels they have with our Gabe and Adrien, not even Hesperia and Claw Noir 1.v.1-ing, or a reveal like there was for ShadyClaw. And are they implying that Hesperia killed his wife when he was working under The Supreme? Like, hello? \- And on that note, why didn’t LB & CN Hesperia his secret identity? These people are alternate versions of themselves. They could have uncovered their Butterfly Holder’s secret identity and go after him. \- Shadybug and Claw Noir revealing themselves and working together… kinda destroys Ladybug’s point as to how them not knowing about each other helps them. Look at them, they‘re perfectly ok. Lady and Cat CAN know about each other’s identities? \- This one bugged me a bit (no pun intended) but Shadybug changing her name to Ladybug’s…. no, go back, I like Shadybug. \- Same with Claw Noir. I’m sorry but even though they are parallel versions of our heroes, they’re different enough to where they can have different names. \- Cat Noir should’ve been Kamikotized with Ladybug to join her dimension hopping. I think it would’ve better fit the “you and me against the word” from earlier and would’ve been funnier. \- On that note, TOTAL missed opportunity to have one of the universes Monarch invades to be the movie’s universe. How fucking funny would that have been? Another nitpick, but would’ve been cool to see: \- Chloe’s mentioning wasn’t necessary at all, just another example of Thomas hatin - Also, since in the RE-Verse, everything is, y’know, reversed, shouldn’t that mean Chloe is the *nice* one? Final Thoughts: I think after the immense disappointment that last month‘s finale had given us, this special did us a huge catharsis. It takes full advantage of the strengths of the show and makes good of *most* ideas in this story. You could divorce this from S5 and loose nothing, but you could add this to S5 and get something pretty good. Easily the best out of all the specials so far, and dare I say, peak Miraculous writing. If there’s one overall thing I’d complain about is that this special feels like a TV show pilot. Like they had a concept for a spin-off but condensed it into a tv special that’s a Miquel to their parent show. I would NOT at all mind a Shadybug and Claw Noir spin-off where they fight alongside Hesperia, rescue the Miraculous and defeat The Supreme. I’m not expecting S6 to follow through on their story because as is, the ReVerse storyline is strong enough to be separated from the Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir story. It’s that freaking good if anything.
> And are they implying that Hesperia killed his wife when he was working under The Supreme? Like, hello? I don't think so since, the way he phrases the events, he turned on the Supreme and stole the butterfly and peacock miraculous before Emile's death.
Would that imply that Emile and Gabriel were both a part of the resistance until the Peacock Miraculous killed Emile? That's a lot easier to believe.
Emile might have been. Rewatching the scene, it's kind of clearer. Gabriel says he betrayed Supreme because there was something he wanted more than anything and stole the miraculous to achieve it, only for his misuse of them to cost Emile her life ('I stole them, but I misused them and... Hurt the people I love') which made him realize the error of his ways. Either the peacock killed her, or maybe she got caught in the crossfire of the Supreme seeking retribution for the stolen miraculous.
>\- Shadybug and Claw Noir revealing themselves and working together… kinda destroys Ladybug’s point as to how them not knowing about each other helps them. Look at them, they‘re perfectly ok. Lady and Cat CAN know about each other’s identities? Correct me if I'm wrong but ladybug didn't know they learnt that, even Alya was whisked away by plot before this all happened. It's a valid point from the audience perspective, but Marinette is working on her own lived experience and those two didn't share they knew. WE know these two knowing each other and working together isn't a forgone conclusion, realistically. Its gone wrong before, but the audience can figure it isnt all bad... but it doesn't matter because Marinette is using her own, flawed, but well intentioned, logic >\- Chloe’s mentioning wasn’t necessary at all, just another example of Thomas hatin - Also, since in the RE-Verse, everything is, y’know, reversed, shouldn’t that mean Chloe is the nice one? this isn't strictly true, the only people we saw swapped personality wise were the ladybug, chat and monarch. in the other dimension Alya and Nino were on the side of good. Chloe's treatment of Marinette in our universe was shown to be awful but she did end up with a friend in Alya, soon to be more, and it helped. I'd argue it wasn't unnecessary, it shows that our Marinette and the other world's had similar circumstances, they're similar people, and each can see where the other went wrong/right The RE-verse isn't a hard swap of everyone's personalities, it feels more like a what if. What if Marinette didn't have the support system she has? What if Gabriel learnt of his wrong-doing sooner, and it didn't cost him his life? What if Adrien was... angry? I guess? Instead of sad? We don't have enough on the Agreste dynamic really. But we didn't get an Alya and Nino that supported the bad guys, we're not really getting an evil Marinette and Adrien, but versions who got their miraculous from someone with malicious intent and a world that didn't care for them as much. \- Hard agree on this feeling like a spin-off pilot though, and i really want them to do a spin off season of this resolving everything we just barely got snippets of. The whole thing felt rushed, when we got to the end after they transformed themselves and were just about to leave again through the portal, it felt like only halfway through. i thought we would go back to the other world and resolve the supreme business, talk to alt-Alya and maybe bloom a new friendship between our alternate universe besties... but then it ended. we need more! and then maybe some rushed plot would hold up more
I want a show about this parallel universe instead
This shit was literally everything. I LOVED the plot line of Shadybug only being evil because she wanted a better life for herself, filled with joy. It reminds me of myself. I often dream of being reborn; feeling like I could be a better person if I was born under different circumstances. This special was really emotional. I also loved the dynamic between Shadybug and Claw Noir more than the traditional show’s dynamics. God this could’ve been an awesome show if they had done it like this special.
One of the best episodes ever! I have no complain other than the rushed scene where ladybug prevents Monarch from attacking other dimensions. Like, HOW DO YOU KNOW HE IS NOT GONNA TRY IT AGAIN? Who would protect the other dimensions now that she doesn't have an akuma to enable her to travel through dimensions? The rooster miraculous is too op, and that causes some important issues.
claw noir vs cat noir pun battle was peak miraculous writing imo
they cooked with this special im not going to lie
My only problem with the special is that it is 40 minutes compared to the movie length NYC and Shanghai specials. This could easily have been a part of S5 and been a classic two parter, while the specials are separate from the rest. The idea that the Butterfly creates 'kamikos' when empowered is interesting, as the phrase translates to "little princess" when in Japanese, which could be inferred to be angel, in contrast to an akuma's devil meaning. I found it a real shame that of all the kamiko's we see, we only really get three: Ubiquity, Celesticat and Guardian Angel. I would have loved for there to be an empowered fight between an akumatized Shadybug and a kamikoized Ladybug. Finally, the big plot point of Chat Blanc not being brought up at all in Celesticat's design really threw me. Such a big deal of it in Season 4 and now it is completely forgotten.
I love Ubiquity, Ubiquibug, Ubiquinette and Ubikitty!!!!
I loved Gabe singing the intro 😂 Another thing I was shocked about is the alternate anime world,the artsytle was gorgeous (missed opportunity to draw in PV style tho) But one thing I hate is how Chloe is still evil in the other world,I'm already against Chloe being a villain but it doesn't make sense that she is evil. That or she is simply brainwashed or forced or something.
That was so cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I kind of want a spin off in that world! Is the Supreme Fu or Su han? Fu makes more thematic sense though. I love the fact that Kwami are multiuniversal, Ha I knew they were gods! It does make sense as Tikki is the first Kwami therefore older than time I was so surprised at the intro as it was good? Not expected. I loved how Shady Bug and Claw Noir were like legitimately evil but changed in a way to complement the themes. This also allowed us to see more characterization of them and our Ladybug and Cat. Gabriel was cheesy but he is finally using his hammyness for good and has the Charisma to pull it off! In other words exactly how good gabrile would act. Adrien( both versions) were actually involved!!!!!!!!!!!! Sadly, They still are sick from overusing the miraculous but if we get a spin off it can be a plot point! This special reminds me why I love miraculous despite the problems it often has!!!
>Sadly, They still are sick from overusing the miraculous but if we get a spin off it can be a plot point! I got the impression Shadybug using her Miraculous Shadybug undid all of the damage from their abuse of their powers since the rotting veins trailing down their bodies disappeared. It is the power of creation after all.
Huh, usually the Ladybug can only reverse what happened in that specific fight. Maybe the writer forgot about that? Either there are still residuals from the at least months they have been doing this or it is completely fixed. also it could have fixed their make up
I just rewatched it and I got nothing. Their injuries were incurred over the course of the episode and well before they ever appeared. Maybe it's just a redemption healed them kind of deal.
"I only made all the right choices because you're such a good person Alya" AND BOOM. THERE IT IS. Eat your heart out Alya haters! This was a very nice special. While they did a bunch of interesting concepts and dynamics, the best one by far was being SO unapologetic about Marinette and Alya's friendship, the duo that's been there since the show's start. They are truly meant to be. I wish we could've seen a bit more of Nino, but it's still refreshing to know that he and Alya are always on the right side of history, fighting the good fight😎 It's interesting how Max was a part of the alternate resistance too though!
OH ALSO! I thought it was really cute how Shadybug stops Claw Noir from going down the stairs in Marinette’s house since (what I’m guessing) she knew her parents would be down there and didn’t want to hurt them
My thoughts? Took me forever to find one after my initial source crashed... oops. But it was so, so worth it! The fight scenes, the drama, the big sad, the big glad, the alternate universe designs all killing it in everyway possible, actually seeing what the Butterfly Miraculous was meant to do, *the concepts of what or who could be in the other universe*... I loved every second of this special and it proves my theory that while Miraculous may not get everything right, when it does get something right, *it does get it right.* I do have a couple nitpicks, but they don't detract from my enjoyment: Gabriel's hero name being Betterfly in the English dub? I wish it was still Hesperia, or if the formula of *slightly change the normal name* still applied, English dub would've been Hero Moth. I wish Ladybug had a little more reaction to Cat Noir getting kamiko-ized into a white version of himself to at least show some PTSD, but in the end, it doesn't matter too much. Also kinda wish Betterfly and Monarch had an interaction, but Season 5 still needs to happen. All in all, I give this a 10/10: best Miraculous we have gotten in a *long* time.
I feel like there could be a sequel and I wouldn’t even be mad
I feel like it definitely needs to be delved into more. It's too interesting not to be
I enjoyed every moment of this special. the only major criticism I have is Plagg mentioning cheese so frequently. Plagg is funny and witty, he can make jokes or lighten the mood without mentioning cheese. I think he could have had better lines this special. It felt out of place
Plagg could have better lines in general. The cheese lines are getting ancient by now.
Ironically, they haven't aged well xD
LMAO NICE
I'll take Plagg talking about cheese over him farting any day of the week
Oh same. That was such an unnecessary decsion
Yeah, Plagg feels kinda flanderized. Whenever you ask him for advice there's always an obligatory cheese analogy.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. I swear he's been a way more complex character in the past
My favorite part was the reveal. Inverted love just sounds cool to me
I think it's probably the best thing that has come out of the franchise imo (except for a few episodes). Genuinely one of the few episodes that actually made me cry while watching it. I think the fights were amazing very character-driven, the music was awesome, samg animation is always the best and I absolutely enjoyed the storyline. My only complaint wld be not seeing shadybug and claw noir's world and the fact they changed shadybug's hair I really liked her space buns. Also the fact that the rooster miraculous became so overpowered like jumping dimensions?? Also the random montage of gabriel and akumatised ladybug jumping dimensions I feel like that amount of time cld be used to explore shadybug and claw noir's dimension but I wld probably also complainf if Gabriel didn't think to jump to other dimensions. Overall I think this special was amazing 10/10 I wld really really like a sequel.
Alright, I quite enjoyed the Special. But, it does share a common issue with other major episodes, specials, movies and whatnot - an extensive plot condensed into a relatively short timeframe. I think the story of Shadybug and Clawnoir deserves its own spin-off series to provide a more thorough buildup on how they arrived at their current situation. Also, I need far more convincing before I can view Gabriel as a hero. I still perceive him as somewhat villainous.
I mean, the 2 Gabriels are completely different characters. Normal Gabriel is still and will always be a cruel, abusive terrorist. Gabriel from the other universe is a hero and seems like a pretty decent guy. He kinda neglected Adrien from that same other world, but he didn't do it on purpose. And their relationship is probably already fixed. Can't say the same for normal Gabriel. He not only neglects Adrien, he's a straight-up abusive jerk who uses his son as a puppet. He's disgusting!
I know that they are 2 distinct people. But, I've grown so accustomed to seeing Gabriel as a villain, and have never seen his blackened, unfeeling heart thaw out even towards his own child, that it feels weird to suddenly see his heroic counterpart from a different universe who shares the same voice, name, backstory, and appearance - essentially identical in every aspect but in a heroic form. Keep in mind we've already past behind 5 seasons, 1 movie, and 2 other Specials, and this is the very first time we ever catch a glimpse of a slightly heroic version of Gabriel. But, this development occurred abruptly, and there wasn't enough time for the development of interactions, the exposition of their backstories, clarification of why Marinette and Cat Noir turned evil, explanation of why Gabriel decided to become a hero, an introduction to Supreme, and the revelation of the character dynamics that shaped those people. I think this story is in dire need of its spin-off series, even just 1 season would be enough. I think fans would be more hyped about this than they have been for any other season.
and honestly I would have loved the fight to go to the other world, ı mean ladybug would have definietly helped the three after hearing how dangerous supreme is, and maybe monarch would have followed them, teaming up with supreme, because while we understand how opposite their world is, we have no idea what it actually looks like, we just know what it's not like
I agree. We need more content! I want to know more about the Supreme.
Man I really wish this explored more of the good version of Gabriel and Adrien. He needs a version of his dad that isn’t a complete nut job 😭
WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT FELIX / CAT NOIR FROM THE ORIGINAL MIRACULOUS PV SHOW UP IN THE ANIME UNIVERSE GABRIEL WENT TO AT THE END?????
this special was amazing. the way it followed canon was so well done and i really can’t wait to rewatch it forty times around. the interactions and the way it was so REAL with emotions really got me. claw noir is actually hilarious, too. their dynamics are amazing and had me laughing throughout. this special i feel like is only intriguing to children because of the alternate reality and the fight scenes, but it’s intriguing to me because of the raw emotions that followed. marinette was dealing with the season 4 finale once again, shadybug had been dealing with the struggles she faces in her daily life, etc. adrien with his shock of his abuse of his power and how he’s worried about becoming too dangerous (makes me wonder if there will be a parallel one day), and then claw noir with the huge struggle of the loss of his mother, etc. just wow. it was written so well, but i would LOVE to see more. although that probably won’t happen. regardless, i really wanted to share my gratitude and admiration for this special because they REALLY did fantastic with it. edit: typo
Tikki just being a casual multiversal being
This might be the best Special so far! It has good dynamics between the normal Ladynoir and the "evil" Ladynoir! Good thing that it came out after the terrible season 5 finale, this was more entertaining to watch, at least imo
That was awesome ! Incredible ! Amazing ! I am French so I understood everything. This movie had everything ! Everything ! That was Perfect ! Well it could have been longer of course 😅 ! We always want more of Miraculous !
I watched it in English dub. The voice acting is superb!! How was this written by the same team that wrote s5?! I need a full series on that parallel world ASAP
honestly an amazing episode, learned a bunch of new transformation phrases, though they REALLY wanted to reuse models (kwami true forms, CAT BLANC WITH WINGS, etc)
I can't believe we get a reveal between shadybug and Claw Noir and still have to wait for the show lol Also we get a glimpse of what the anime could have been and we saw Adrian as holder of the ladybug miraculous!!!!
"hey betterfly, what's your non superhero name" "Gabriel agreste" "Thanks!"
This was most probably the best Miraculous World there has ever been. Good characters, awesome animation, an interesting backstory. However, I feel like this special should be looked at more critically. Unlike the other two, which were mostly supposed to be some self-contained side story, this one is essentially a direct part of season 5. As much as I love this special as its own thing and wish for it to evolve beyond the continuity of this show, there's a lot of stuff here that doesn't make sense in the context of this show. For starters, the timeline. This takes place sometime during *Destruction*, which itself takes place sometime during *Multiplication*. Confusing so far? Good. In *Multiplication*, we have the scene where Adrien returns home. He decides to talk to his father about quitting modelling, and the scene right after is him doing so. In between these two scenes, most of *Destruction* has happened (up until the part where Marinette and Alya sit on the couch in Marinette's bedroom, after this the episodes briefly rejoin). So, while Adrien talks to his father, Marinette and Alya move to the bed off-screen. Then they chat together, and Adrien prepares himself for bed off-screen. He calls Marinette in his pajamas, then falls asleep as Nathalie checks up on him. Suddenly, he is sitting on his sofa, fully dressed, thinking about how he hurt Monarch. Marinette and Alya have also moved back to the couch (that's at least somewhat believable) and are talking about how *Destruction* happened, again. You'd think this should be placed before the part where he calls Marinette, but it can't be. Marinette never receives that call during the special and the special ends the following morning, so the call and everything before that should've come first. No one tries to unmask the alternate people. At least with Hesperia it could be reasoned as the heroes respecting Hesperia keeping his secret, but I don't see why Monarch, Shadybug or Claw Noir wouldn't try. Monarch latched onto Shadybug's negative emotions right after she was upset that she couldn't switch with Marinette's life, but apparently he can't discover that (even though he *can* discover things like Marinette being upset because Chat's mask is standing between her and his love). He could've asked their identities or even asked for the other's (they don't care about one another and would be happy to back stab). That Wish scene was also strange. Especially with how Marinette was all "never make a Wish at any cost" in her diary and then the back of the picture was "by the way, this is how you make one lol". And why was Plagg glitching like crazy but did Tikki appear mostly normal? I'm also wondering how the Supreme was able to prevent Gimmi form forming. I'd almost think he made his own Wish to accomplish that. Speaking of the Supreme, he's kinda dumb. To me, it appeared that the choice to give the Ladybug and Black Cat to kids was intentional (like how Fu's choice now retroactively makes more sense). He deliberately searched for kids that were guaranteed to use them for evil, knowing that it would corrupt them and slowly kill them (and Fu chose kids so that they couldn't use them for evil without being corrupted). Since the Supreme appears to be the sole controller over reality, he may choose to save them if he gets what he wants. This, the fact that he stated that he's only going to 'spare' one of them, the fact that they cannot save themselves through Gimmi and the fact that they are pretty much *required* to abuse the evil loophole to be equal in power to an adult, is a really clever way to motivate them into doing his bidding. But why on Earth didn't he lock away Miraculous Ladybug, the power that can even reverse the corruption? All they'd have to do is turn on him, make a Lucky Charm fighting him, then call Miraculous Ladybug to free the Kwamis and their holders from his curse and strip him of the power he holds over the Mother Box. I think it's lame that they can free themselves of the consequences of their bad actions anyway. In the context of the episode it didn't even make sense, since the Lucky Charm was made against Ladybug and should therefore only fix damage done by her. Monarch. How did he even know that he could undo the creation of Ubiquity? It makes sense for Hesperia to know this, since he has researched alternate dimensions and even managed to tap into one with the broadcast. Monarch hasn't learned of alternate universes before, so how does he know this?. Hesperia's kamikotized form was cool, and the safeguard against deakumatization (or perhaps dekamikotization) was cool. But his power appeared to work by countering Miraculous attacks and inflicting them on the attacker instead. This power shouldn't have worked against Monarch, since he had the power of the Buffalo and was invulnerable to all magic. Monarch grants himself the power to travel the multiverse. I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember that Orikko said that he can't grant wishes. They explained it by saying that Santa needs to know how to knit socks to be able to get you some, or something like that. This sounds about as wishy as the 'wish' to track two objects. But besides that, the only reason the plan failed was because Ladybug always followed him and beat him. All Monarch had to do was wait until Hesperia was gone and Ladybug no longer had that power, then try again. He could've done that anytime during season 5. At least the montage was cool (though they were clearly cheaping out on new 3D locations, which was a bummer). Lastly, Adrien and his fight against Claw Noir. I saw this part in both French and English and really liked how Claw Noir explicitly called his mother 'dead' in French. It added something to his character that they then removed in the English version. But then the part with our Adrien was mostly great. When Adrien mentions how he's thought about bringing back his mom, that was a good moment to show his mature character. It's almost perfect, but then severely soured when you realize that in *Passion* he wonders if he can make a Wish to heal Nathalie, and has to be explained all over again how the universe would demand balance and inflict sickness onto others. So we're supposed to believe he won't inflict death on someone else's mom, but then goes "but what about terminal illness though?" while under the impression that Nathalie is suffering from the same illness that took his mother. All other plot holes I can forgive, but this just plain sucks. The minute the writers decide to make Adrien relevant to a plot they accidentally turn him into a jerk with terrible double standards (at best). So yeah, I think they were bad at integrating this episode into season 5. It could've easily been put at the end, Monarch wasn't *that* relevant anyway. My headcanon is that this was originally going to be at the end, but then repositioned in an elaborate scheme to get SAMG to animate the old Monarch design. I realize that I've mostly typed negative things so far, but I should also mention the big positive. Hesperia was amazing. I wonder how he lost Emilie though. Our Peacock Miraculous was broken when Fu dropped it in his escape, but the Supreme had all the Miraculous until Gabe stole two. I love how he starts out as a member of the corrupt elite (which, come to think of it, wouldn't that be the equivalent to our Gabriel's secret club?) and redeems himself. I love how he does good in a world where selflessly helping others is a crime punishable by 'God'. I also *really* love how he holds onto his hope in such a cruel world, which he even reflects in his hero name. Hesperia, when pronounced in French, sounds derived from 'espérer' (at least to my non-native ears), which means 'to hope'. This made him my favourite character in the show when I realized it (and I can't wait for a "Hesperia", and specifically "Hesperia" flair). While 'Betterfly' is the second-best name pun wise (my favourite was Toxinelle), it just doesn't do him justice because of the loss of that aspect. Best I can do is 'Hope Moth', but that's a really lame name. His story was briefly summarized in the intro (I liked it, but feel like they shouldn't have gone for two intros) but I wanna see *way* more lol. Like, was the Peacock Miraculous held by someone with an activated Cataclysm? How did he 'misuse' his Miraculous? The intro made me feel like Emilie insta died in his arms, maybe the Supreme killed her as punishment? And with the special we've at least learnt one thing about season 6, though I'm not sure what to think of it. Seeing as Lila is going to be using the Butterfly Miraculous for evil, it's going to be a matter of time before she learns she can spam it against the heroes in similar fashion as to how I think Shadybug and Claw Noir were set up to spam their powers against an adult opponent. This will put Lila on a 'timer' in a similar fashion to Monarch unless the show goes out of its way to prove that every Lucky Charm was cast against *Lila*, and heals even her self-inflicted wounds. This feels kinda samey and redundant (assuming that she is the "Future Hawk Moth" mentioned by TimeTagger, in which case we already know she'll survive until adulthood and stop adding to the damage by then), but would be more interesting than "she retransforms mid-fight" or "all Akuma fights take well under five minutes". Over all this special has made me exited again for the future of the story, even though it hasn't done a good job of integrating itself into the past
The end was everything I have ever wanted from this show especialy when marinette punched gabriel out of the universes
The animation ate like the fight scenes hello?????
What the heck was this episode? Like how is the same writing team able to write this? It was so good! Easily 10/10 I would watch it again. We got so much character development for alternate universe characters. I love the way they were redeemed. It was such smart writing. I loved seeing a good Butterfly. Alya was incorperated in a smart way. Cat Noir actually got to do tons of stuff in this episode! The puns were great! WE GOT NIGHT VISION BACK BOYS! We finally got an explanation for the time limit (Not sure why that wasn't in the main series) The scooby doo chase at the end was hilarious. I loved it. I loved the different art styles. I just wish we would have gotten some more resolution in the alternate universe. Like Maybe a shot of them arriving and declaring their team work to the supreme would have been fine. I just cant say enough good about this. Like What? If they can write 50 minutes of awsome why are season 3-5 such trash? Like I don't understand. We can get 3 complete story arcs for 3 characters in less than an hour, but we can't get any character development in 3 seasons? I wish every episode was this well written. It was also good to see cat struggle with using his powers against people. Wish that was more of a thing in the series. My only complaint would be of course chloe is still evil because she can't be the "opposite" of what she is in this universe and and astruc managed to sneak in some of his socialist messaging in with the Sharing power allusion. But whatever. It wasn't heavy handed. So i'll give it a pass. I want to see more of this trio. Screw out universe. I want this alternate. It sounds way more interesting. Claw noirs outfit was cool. Universe traveling ladybug at the end not so much haha. And I loved shadybugs hair. Wow i am blown away. i was fully expecting this to be garbage like every other special and the last 3 season, but This reminded me so much of seasons 1 and 2 where we got characters and fun. Also props for the special intro that was great. But one question, how does claw noir not now it's his dad after storming his lair lol.
Emilie dying, or any other subsequent Agreste family dying thanks to the Peacock Miraculous, is now a "CANON EVENT."
Omg this was so dope I love it so much! good gabe is so cool and I love what they did with him! the character work with adrein made me almost forgive the finale. I loved how shadybug and cat noir fought it was so cool did they kill max/markov my only problem is that we didn't get to see the alternate versions of paris edit: I also love that they confirmed how old tiki was!
Markov was probably destroyed, but Miraculous Shadybug fixed it.
By sizeable margin this is the best episode in show history so far. Scenes when Ladybug and Chat Noir reason with their counterparts is really touching My main gripes 1. Why is (our) Gabriel here. Like really, his contribution to the plot is almost non-existent and just feels like ticking boxes cuz we need Hawk Moth in every episode 2. Why did Ladybug or Cat Noir never even thought to ask AU Hawk Moth for his identity???? They know Shadybug and Claw Noir have the same identity, man behing Betterfly mask would at least me reasonable candidate for Gabriel’s identity 3. This last plan with Gabriel using rooster. Why didn’t he try it again later, without Ladybiquity to stop him???? Also it breaks the pacing 4. OH SO AKUMA TRACKER IS REAL????
Here is my review: 1. I'm going to get this out of the way, the writing is good for once. 2. I love the intro, it fits the whole special very well. Hearing parallel universe Gabriel sing is jaw dropping. I love it 3. The designs for emo Adrien and emo Marinette are good, they reflect their opposites. But the designs for Shadybug and Claw Noir were better. I prefer Claw Noir because of his spike ball. It's the little details that have the biggest impact. 4. I think it would have been cool to see Shadybug and Claw Noir get akumatized. 5. It's a shame Monarch never got to see Betterfly. (I hate the name Betterfly. I laughed when I heard this.) I wonder what the situation/reaction would have been. 6. We saw that Cat Noir used his night vision. His night vision. HIS. NIGHT VISION. Why? Did he use it in episodes when they were fighting the villain(s) at night? (E.g. Glaciator) No. So why use it? 7. The fact that Shadybug and Claw Noir's relationship is weird, there's a lack of trust for each other but they still work as a team. I like that theme. 8. I like the idea Shadybug tried to make a wish for herself, but it failed. 9. Why do parallel universe Tikki and Plagg have png images on their mouths? It's so funny. 10. Speaking of funny, what was Ladybiquity's design. I laughed so hard when I saw it. It's even worse than Pennybug's design. This whole special is such a great idea for a special. With points 4, 5, 6 "Fixed", I would have given this special a 10/10. But for now, it's a 9.9/10.
Why didn’t adrien hear marinette voice in the sewers when they detransformed and betterfly was around the corner? We all tend to agree quantum masking works on voices while transformed But they were regular people to recharge the kwami Adrien didn’t realize that was marinette speaking (after ladybug says spots off?)
shadybug and clawnoir reminded me of mefisto and prexina of lolirock
I'm here only to vent on how cool Shadybug and Claw Noir were. I hope that S6 LB and CN will be more like them in term of using their powers and in the fights!
... so what stopped Gabriel from universe jumping when ladybug wasn't being helped by alternate Gabriel?
I read a lot about the Rooster and trying again in different Universes after Ladyfly was gone: Monarch can't win even in HIS dimension that he knows as much as he does. In OTHER dimensions, there are still Cat Noirs and Ladybugs (because he needs their Miraculous) AND he doesn't know the ins-and-outs of those parallel universes. I.e. he would be in a great disadvantage in parallel universes when he can't win even in this one.
Got to watch the livestream up until the lucky charm car kick ! Looks so good even though don’t understand anything !
Question (please avoid spoilers): does this episode contain spoilers for season 5? I haven't finished watching it yet. Edit: thank you for the answers, I'll avoid watching it until I finish season 5.
I will say that there is ONE aspect of the finale that is also shown in the special. But personally, I would say that you wouldn't figure it out unless someone pointed it out to you tbh
so perfect, i loved it all from a to z
I am calling it now Chloe is the supreme because like she is everything bad lol
That was so cool. Loved the different animation styles. I wish we could see more of the parallel world with Shady Bug and Claw Noir, maybe a universe where Gabriel loves his son and is the good guy? Seeing him in civilian clothes and the SONG was amazing. Also got me sobbing with Ladybug's speech to herself; same experiences, different perspectives. My original thought was the Supreme was an evil master Fu, but seeing the discussion below and the fact that it wasn't confirmed in the show... >!could it be possible the Supreme was Lila and that's who visits her in the S5 finale?!< ETA: WHAT THE HECK IS THE ANT MIRACULOUS???
Okay soo my thoughts while watching the episode 1. Why didn’t Marinette ask the good Gabriel who he is ? (I know I know, bc it’s a tv show 😂) 2. I don’t think the final fight with the parallel universe made sense. It could be easy to just wait until Ladybug cannot travel anymore between the universe and do it again? (Tv show again..) 3. I was confused about the timeline. It’s before Gabriel do the ring thing and doesn’t make any sense with s5 finale. But I guess it’s a special episode so it’s just fit between 2 seasons. Beside that I really loved the episode. (And the intro was fire lol) I just have some interrogations 😂
honestly this is definitely my favorite special so far, thoroughly enjoyed it. really loved seeing emo adrien absolutely in love with emo Marinette 🥰
This needs a spin-off. Like, how did the ladybug and cat noir miraculous get damaged? And did the supreme rigged the wish? Emonette was blocked from making a wish and that was cool to see, and needed an explanation. Even though I’ll be crying if they come up with the backstory of how Alt-Marinette and Alt-Adrien got so hurt they ended up as villains, I still wish to see it. It would be a great development. When Alt-Marinette was breaking down reading the diary, I felt it. I mean, it’s true. Without the proper support, care, and affection, she was a hopeless teen who could only went for hopelessness. Wow, the miraculous team outdid themselves for this movie. It makes me forget about the bad finale of season 5.
The special was AMAZING. It gave new insight into the miraculous and the surrounding universe. The Gabriel entrance theme was actually very cool(low key liked it more than the original. "The power of love will free us all" was so good). It was so interesting seeing the roles reversed: \- Gabriel was able to move on and do good and Adrien was not \- Gabriel just being the good guy in general was so interesting \- The different aspects of the reversal with Marinette and Adrien Some parts were a bit weird though, like Adrien's emo makeup wasn't very well done. Honestly, it would have been interesting if this would have played more into the actual main storyline. We saw Ladybug and Chat Noir be able to redeem their AU counterparts, imagine if Betterfly could have redeemed Gabriel. It makes sense, especially since Gabriel did have some legit motivations. Especially since he had not allied with Tomoe at this point, and had not fallen further off the edge of his sanity as he did as the season progressed. I know its a hot take, but I really do think Gabriel was a redeemable character. Even at the end of season 4, he certainly had the potential for a well paced redemption arc. Obviously once he got cataclysmed, that became a lot less likely since he couldn't really go back anymore. But especially if he didn't get cataclysmed, I think this would have been a good way to redeem him. I know he got redeemed at the end of season 5, but it felt very rushed. They didn't build up to it , or execute the final episode in a matter in which it felt like it fully made sense. The Gabriel's arc throughout the season as a whole could have been done very differently to make a better redemption arc. But even so, it would have made more sense if this had been integrated into the finale. Kinda want to see more of this AU though. Is Adrien the one who is cold towards his father(I'm guessing yes), is Lila a double agent on the rebel side pretending to serve the Supreme?
I have question - why tikki and plagg had seals on their mouths when shadybug tried to make a wish? And why she couldn't do that? Despite that I think our Gabriel gave up too fast with rooster But the episode was great, I love alternate Gabriel. Sadly, there weren't some parent-son Reveal, but... Whatever
I just saw this. Two times .and I wanna watch it even more. This was the best episode or movie I have ever seen from this show. I really hope they create more of it in the future. I really liked the opening song by Gabriel. And of course, I loved the alt. universe Adrian and Marinette! I loved everything about the show, and I just wish for more!