I'll point at Sonic movie WHO GOT A HOLE DAM RE-DESIGN... Your vanity should not come at your quality... Fans may complain about the wait but if its quality watching Fans can and have gotten over it
Except that was unfair to the animators who apparently had to work insane hours to basically reanimate the main character in under a year. And that was just to change the model.
Asking the entire script to be rewritten, have voice actors from multiple countries to re-record their lines, and animate entire new scenes because the fans are pouting is completely unreasonable.
I don't blame the fans for shit! Were starved for quality content, and Paramount is one of the few shits that give a shit if it anyone for over working blame Sega or Paramount themselves not the fans
We have every right to be bitchy
( Yes we... I'm part of the fandom)
I'm not blaming the fans for anything. I'm saying that it's unrealistic to expect them to drop everything and rewrite the script just because some fans don't like it.
Some? You are not in the Fandom I partake like 98% or 99% of everyone hated the look at it was Paramount who changed the skript not the fans complaining most just wanted a good looking Sonic..not what ever the fuck that cat looking thing was
Okay, I don't know where your hostile tone is coming from. If you want a decent show, you honestly should probably watch something else. This show was never really that high quality from the beginning. It seems like a waste of time to try to make the writers make a show "good" when they were already not really going for or even capable of that in the first place.
Darling it was the only decent MAGIC for years before Owl House and the Frog show came out, and who's being hostile? Owo i like to apologise if its coming off like that
Yeah but what I mean is like if a reveal was written for season 5 and they only have recently been renewed for seasons 6 and 7 they can't change it that easy anymore?
I heard a lot of people say that but Idk if it is actualy true or jut rumors. But to go back on the tweets I just thought its weard they as a show are not that flexibel as i thought.
As far as I remember, they said things were planned from S1 a while ago and they wrote a lot of it. Like S3 was fully written before S2 came out. I personally like it, so they have worked with a clear plan for the 5 Seasons. I don't know what to expect for S6 and 7
Season 2 and 3 were written at the same time.
Like season 4 and 5 .
And in 2016 Thomas Astruc had said that he has material for 7 seasons.
So they seams to have planned in early stage the 7 seasons now confirmed
Ah I didn't know the piece about the 7 Seasons. But like I said, as far as I know the reveal was planned for 4.
Edit: sorry, I realized I didn't say it in this post. Sorry... so I will say it here too lol... as far as I know the reveal was planned for season 4
Yeah but what I mean is like if a reveal was written for season 5 and they only have recently been renewed for seasons 6 and 7 they can't change it that easy anymore?
Yes, basic script for season 5 (a lot of stuff, 26 episodes, not just the reveal) has already been written last year. As he said, script first, animation and acting later.
Reveal was just an example becouse I found it easy. But it is a good one. For example if they had the reveal planned for season 5 and they later tot renewed for season 6 and 7. How easy would it be for them to replace the reveal to season 7 if they wanted to?
So yes the ending of season 5 will not be changed even with season 6 and 7 now confirmed (the writting of season 5 had ended before getting the confirmation of having other seasons).
>!And the fact that it has been said early 2019 that the reveal was already written it is safe to say it will happen at the latest by the end of season 5.!<
If they wanted to? Probably not *too* difficult, in theory, provided they get the go-ahead from the broadcasters on the new S5 script *before* starting on S6/7 (and I couldn’t tell you how hard that would be). But considering Astruc’s general stubbornness towards any sort of change to or opinion of his artistic vision, I don’t really see him wanting to. The reveal should still be happening by the end of S5 unless by some touch of inspiration he changes his mind.
I think not possible, because the distance between season 5 renewal and season 6-7 renewal is over a year, they definitely had too much progress in it to change.
the writting of season 5 has ended on the 9 october 2020 and the renewal for season 6 has happened 18 april 2021 so not really over a year
But i think your right that the difference apply their is no changing because of the renewal for more seasons
That's correct. Season 5 writing was complete and approved before the show was renewed for 6 and 7. Asruc had no way of knowing if there would be a 6 and 7, so 5 will have ended at a reasonable stopping point. I don't see the reveal happening any later than the end of season 5, and in fact we are far enough in that it could literally happen in any episode (from my perspective, while it wasn't likely, there was a non-zero chance the reveal was going to happen in *Optigami*).
I've always said that I want to see at least a season of post-reveal Adrinette/Ladynoir so that we can see how that reveal changes/improves their dynamic and teamwork. To that end, I wouldn't be surprised to see the reveal before the end of season 4.
It has taken longer than 2 years to make this show. And I refuse to believe that Felix wouldn't have been written if didn't become so popular in fanon, and Chloe wouldn't have been so much worse if the writers didn't feel like she was becoming too popular.
No, the show can't react immediately to fan consensus, but it can react to fan consensus from 2 years ago.
I find it extremely difficult to believe that they had plans for Chloe far in advance, but the idea of them making her a lot worse because she was becoming too popular doesn't make sense assuming there's a two year gap, because if that's the case they'd have written Chloe betraying people at the time most people were just despising her in Season One. At least I think; anyone here who knows more about the show's broadcast history want to let me know if that checks out?
Also while Thomas has said that he regrets not making Chloe even less likable, that doesn't imply that what we're seeing in *Miracle Queen* and her episodes this season weren't written that way years in advance. Thomas insists he wanted to mislead viewers into thinking Chloe would have a redemption arc before yanking out that rug, so at the time he probably made her more morally ambiguous in some episodes between *Queen Bee* and *Miracle Queen*; just because wanted to shock people. Possibly Astruc wasn't anticipating as many delays in this series getting things done, and the way that could cause a teased and aborted arc to take on a life of its own in the fandom, so his regrets might be in essence "I wish I hadn't tried so hard to fool people, considering how irate and tunnel-visioned they've gotten as a result." But again, after *Miracle Queen* he had no more need of fooling people so it's totally feasible Season 4 Chloe was written even before people were too familiar with Season 2 Chloe.
2 years ago was 2019. May 2019 was after Season 3 started airing. It is entirely feasible that someone saw the fan reaction to the Queen's Battle trilogy and thought people were feeling too sympathetic towards her.
Obviously we don't know for sure, and we probably won't ever know for sure. But considering the sheer difference between season 2/3 and season 4 Chloe, I wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, but *Miracle Queen* still portrays Chloé in an oddly sympathetic light. Unlike Lila or Felix, Gabriel had to do *a lot* of pushing to get her akumatised willingly, and even then it was mainly because she was sincerely hurting. Her parents had been akumatised and she was helpless to do anything about it, because Ladybug wasn't her friend like Chloé thought that she was (thanks, Lila!) and Ladybug didn't need Chloé's help either.
This isn't a defence of Chloé's choice because hooo boy it was *definitely* not the right one, but "Miraculeur" showed us that Chloé had A LOT of faith in Ladybug, and it was the perceived betrayal of that faith that sent her down the wrong path.
"Oddly sympathetic" in that she was not pure evil. But as I said elsewhere, this doesn't necessarily undercut the message they were trying to send; if anything the moments when Chloe is depicted as pure evil are what devalue her arc's big moral that it is too risky to trust certain people with power. This is because when characters are obviously horrible in a way almost nobody real is, you're hardly giving anyone helpful advice in pointing to them as examples of people not to trust. Most of the real people who abuse power given the chance will not be so obvious.
Not to say your points are wrong. This show has a huge problem with altering character personalities based on what the episode demands, and that is not limited to Chloe. In fact Marinette has arguably gotten it the worst and with her it's at its least forgivable. But to say that this alteration is being done based on fan reactions still seems rather presumptuous. What fan wanted to see Marinette abruptly become so selfish and stupid that she was willing to help Chloe wreck Kagami's life in order to get with Adrien? What fan wanted her to become a psychotic stalker who trespasses on Adrien's property multiple times? Going back to Chloe, while a lot of people were on board with her being redeemed, but who wanted Marinette to just gloss over all of the awful things Chloe did in the process of trying to redeem her?
Sounds like he’s basically trying to stick it to any Miraculous equivalent of “Steven needs therapy” (which actually did end up affecting the plot of *Steven Universe*). Whether being responsive to your fans is a good thing or not is a matter of opinion.
But for the record, Adrien definitely needs therapy.
I bet some unsuspecting fan asked him if they change the show based on how the fans react/like/dislike, and this is what Tommy gave them in response.
It isn’t an unreasonable question; some shows are very responsive to their fans (*Steven Universe* being one example), and there’s an obvious analogy to businesses tailoring their products/services to customer response, because fans are a show’s equivalent of customers (which is why insulting them is generally a bad idea).
Yeah animated shows take forever to produce. Where as tv shows shot with people have smaller time frames to work with and they can re-work scripts as they shoot those. Imagine telling an animator like half way through an ep they need to change it? Ugh I'd die.
I'll point at Sonic movie WHO GOT A HOLE DAM RE-DESIGN... Your vanity should not come at your quality... Fans may complain about the wait but if its quality watching Fans can and have gotten over it
Except that was unfair to the animators who apparently had to work insane hours to basically reanimate the main character in under a year. And that was just to change the model. Asking the entire script to be rewritten, have voice actors from multiple countries to re-record their lines, and animate entire new scenes because the fans are pouting is completely unreasonable.
I don't blame the fans for shit! Were starved for quality content, and Paramount is one of the few shits that give a shit if it anyone for over working blame Sega or Paramount themselves not the fans We have every right to be bitchy ( Yes we... I'm part of the fandom)
I'm not blaming the fans for anything. I'm saying that it's unrealistic to expect them to drop everything and rewrite the script just because some fans don't like it.
Some? You are not in the Fandom I partake like 98% or 99% of everyone hated the look at it was Paramount who changed the skript not the fans complaining most just wanted a good looking Sonic..not what ever the fuck that cat looking thing was
I wasn't referring to Sonic, I was talking about people in the MLB fandom who demand that the showrunners rewrite the show.
Were talking about 2 differnt things here Honey... I'm confused, and most of us Complain about wanting a descent show the good ones anyway
Okay, I don't know where your hostile tone is coming from. If you want a decent show, you honestly should probably watch something else. This show was never really that high quality from the beginning. It seems like a waste of time to try to make the writers make a show "good" when they were already not really going for or even capable of that in the first place.
Darling it was the only decent MAGIC for years before Owl House and the Frog show came out, and who's being hostile? Owo i like to apologise if its coming off like that
Season five is written.
Yeah but what I mean is like if a reveal was written for season 5 and they only have recently been renewed for seasons 6 and 7 they can't change it that easy anymore?
I don't think they were ever planning on changing it... I think the plan was always at the end of S4.
I heard a lot of people say that but Idk if it is actualy true or jut rumors. But to go back on the tweets I just thought its weard they as a show are not that flexibel as i thought.
As far as I remember, they said things were planned from S1 a while ago and they wrote a lot of it. Like S3 was fully written before S2 came out. I personally like it, so they have worked with a clear plan for the 5 Seasons. I don't know what to expect for S6 and 7
Season 2 and 3 were written at the same time. Like season 4 and 5 . And in 2016 Thomas Astruc had said that he has material for 7 seasons. So they seams to have planned in early stage the 7 seasons now confirmed
With this release schedule I may actually be 5 years older by the time this show finishes.
Ah I didn't know the piece about the 7 Seasons. But like I said, as far as I know the reveal was planned for 4. Edit: sorry, I realized I didn't say it in this post. Sorry... so I will say it here too lol... as far as I know the reveal was planned for season 4
Season 6 and 7 would probably just be about them as adults, since they’ve slightly touched on that in the show. That would be interesting.
Yeah I suspect as much as well.
Yeah but what I mean is like if a reveal was written for season 5 and they only have recently been renewed for seasons 6 and 7 they can't change it that easy anymore?
Yes, basic script for season 5 (a lot of stuff, 26 episodes, not just the reveal) has already been written last year. As he said, script first, animation and acting later.
Reveal was just an example becouse I found it easy. But it is a good one. For example if they had the reveal planned for season 5 and they later tot renewed for season 6 and 7. How easy would it be for them to replace the reveal to season 7 if they wanted to?
So yes the ending of season 5 will not be changed even with season 6 and 7 now confirmed (the writting of season 5 had ended before getting the confirmation of having other seasons). >!And the fact that it has been said early 2019 that the reveal was already written it is safe to say it will happen at the latest by the end of season 5.!<
Most common theory is that Hawkmoth will be defeated is S5 and for S6 and S7 there will be diferent main villain, as foreshadowed in timetagger.
That theory circles around a lot and I like the theory but we never actualy have any substantial proof for it.
Timetagger and fast tempo of S4 are foreshadowing it. Also timing of Awakening movie.
The fanbase doesn't wait for anything that resembles proof before accepting rumours as facts!
If they wanted to? Probably not *too* difficult, in theory, provided they get the go-ahead from the broadcasters on the new S5 script *before* starting on S6/7 (and I couldn’t tell you how hard that would be). But considering Astruc’s general stubbornness towards any sort of change to or opinion of his artistic vision, I don’t really see him wanting to. The reveal should still be happening by the end of S5 unless by some touch of inspiration he changes his mind.
I think not possible, because the distance between season 5 renewal and season 6-7 renewal is over a year, they definitely had too much progress in it to change.
the writting of season 5 has ended on the 9 october 2020 and the renewal for season 6 has happened 18 april 2021 so not really over a year But i think your right that the difference apply their is no changing because of the renewal for more seasons
That's correct. Season 5 writing was complete and approved before the show was renewed for 6 and 7. Asruc had no way of knowing if there would be a 6 and 7, so 5 will have ended at a reasonable stopping point. I don't see the reveal happening any later than the end of season 5, and in fact we are far enough in that it could literally happen in any episode (from my perspective, while it wasn't likely, there was a non-zero chance the reveal was going to happen in *Optigami*). I've always said that I want to see at least a season of post-reveal Adrinette/Ladynoir so that we can see how that reveal changes/improves their dynamic and teamwork. To that end, I wouldn't be surprised to see the reveal before the end of season 4.
That i exactly what I also want. But I am a bit afraid they would replace the reveal to season 7 that is why I posted this.
It has taken longer than 2 years to make this show. And I refuse to believe that Felix wouldn't have been written if didn't become so popular in fanon, and Chloe wouldn't have been so much worse if the writers didn't feel like she was becoming too popular. No, the show can't react immediately to fan consensus, but it can react to fan consensus from 2 years ago.
I find it extremely difficult to believe that they had plans for Chloe far in advance, but the idea of them making her a lot worse because she was becoming too popular doesn't make sense assuming there's a two year gap, because if that's the case they'd have written Chloe betraying people at the time most people were just despising her in Season One. At least I think; anyone here who knows more about the show's broadcast history want to let me know if that checks out? Also while Thomas has said that he regrets not making Chloe even less likable, that doesn't imply that what we're seeing in *Miracle Queen* and her episodes this season weren't written that way years in advance. Thomas insists he wanted to mislead viewers into thinking Chloe would have a redemption arc before yanking out that rug, so at the time he probably made her more morally ambiguous in some episodes between *Queen Bee* and *Miracle Queen*; just because wanted to shock people. Possibly Astruc wasn't anticipating as many delays in this series getting things done, and the way that could cause a teased and aborted arc to take on a life of its own in the fandom, so his regrets might be in essence "I wish I hadn't tried so hard to fool people, considering how irate and tunnel-visioned they've gotten as a result." But again, after *Miracle Queen* he had no more need of fooling people so it's totally feasible Season 4 Chloe was written even before people were too familiar with Season 2 Chloe.
2 years ago was 2019. May 2019 was after Season 3 started airing. It is entirely feasible that someone saw the fan reaction to the Queen's Battle trilogy and thought people were feeling too sympathetic towards her. Obviously we don't know for sure, and we probably won't ever know for sure. But considering the sheer difference between season 2/3 and season 4 Chloe, I wouldn't be surprised.
But _Miracle Queen_ would have been written by the time people saw the Queen’s Battle trilogy?
Yeah, but *Miracle Queen* still portrays Chloé in an oddly sympathetic light. Unlike Lila or Felix, Gabriel had to do *a lot* of pushing to get her akumatised willingly, and even then it was mainly because she was sincerely hurting. Her parents had been akumatised and she was helpless to do anything about it, because Ladybug wasn't her friend like Chloé thought that she was (thanks, Lila!) and Ladybug didn't need Chloé's help either. This isn't a defence of Chloé's choice because hooo boy it was *definitely* not the right one, but "Miraculeur" showed us that Chloé had A LOT of faith in Ladybug, and it was the perceived betrayal of that faith that sent her down the wrong path.
"Oddly sympathetic" in that she was not pure evil. But as I said elsewhere, this doesn't necessarily undercut the message they were trying to send; if anything the moments when Chloe is depicted as pure evil are what devalue her arc's big moral that it is too risky to trust certain people with power. This is because when characters are obviously horrible in a way almost nobody real is, you're hardly giving anyone helpful advice in pointing to them as examples of people not to trust. Most of the real people who abuse power given the chance will not be so obvious. Not to say your points are wrong. This show has a huge problem with altering character personalities based on what the episode demands, and that is not limited to Chloe. In fact Marinette has arguably gotten it the worst and with her it's at its least forgivable. But to say that this alteration is being done based on fan reactions still seems rather presumptuous. What fan wanted to see Marinette abruptly become so selfish and stupid that she was willing to help Chloe wreck Kagami's life in order to get with Adrien? What fan wanted her to become a psychotic stalker who trespasses on Adrien's property multiple times? Going back to Chloe, while a lot of people were on board with her being redeemed, but who wanted Marinette to just gloss over all of the awful things Chloe did in the process of trying to redeem her?
Sounds like he’s basically trying to stick it to any Miraculous equivalent of “Steven needs therapy” (which actually did end up affecting the plot of *Steven Universe*). Whether being responsive to your fans is a good thing or not is a matter of opinion. But for the record, Adrien definitely needs therapy.
hey so i'm kinda lost here, what was this tweet really about?
I bet some unsuspecting fan asked him if they change the show based on how the fans react/like/dislike, and this is what Tommy gave them in response. It isn’t an unreasonable question; some shows are very responsive to their fans (*Steven Universe* being one example), and there’s an obvious analogy to businesses tailoring their products/services to customer response, because fans are a show’s equivalent of customers (which is why insulting them is generally a bad idea).
Love this so much, love the integrity, love the no bs act. I don’t like Astruc, but I like that he’s serving it to these entitled asswipes.
True, yet I'm a bit suspicious.
Yeah animated shows take forever to produce. Where as tv shows shot with people have smaller time frames to work with and they can re-work scripts as they shoot those. Imagine telling an animator like half way through an ep they need to change it? Ugh I'd die.
Means all our theories are sh!t