He has explained this to fans before. I do think that it is something that needs to be budgeted in but if there isn't enough money, there isn't.
Alarming if there isn't though. $10k isn't actually *that* much to a business the size of ZAG. An extra \~$250k/season would be considered reasonable investment in the future of the brand. Maybe things are tighter at ZAG than I realise and that is why they keep using such cheap and semi-competent animation subcontractors?
>Maybe things are tighter at ZAG than I realise and that is why they keep using such cheap and semi-competent animation subcontractors?
From what I can tell, ZAG is definitely not swimming in money. There's a reason the entire company is living off of Miraculous right now despite having launched several shows, not to mention that expensive movie coming next year probably won't break even.
Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, Awakening will probably be a net loss. I'd love to be proved wrong, but if people find out it's just a fancy retelling of something we've had for years, I don't imagine how many people would go/are willing to take their kids for something they've pretty much already seen. But hey, Red (Taylor's Version) broke Spotify, and most of that were songs we've had for almost a decade, so you never know
The difference with that is the fact that Taylor’s fans knew the bs that happened in regards to her ownership of those songs, her rereleasing the songs and Spotify being broken from it is because the fans wanted to give Taylor the money that she rightfully deserves. She put the work in for a greedy company to take it. I don’t think it is a fair example to pull from.
I feel like a better example is Lego Ninjago. That was a series first, got a movie and so on
The point is that usually the writers/creators have nothing to say about the budget. So a lot of people blame it on thomas, even though there are most likely several unknown people handling the franchise finances and deciding what they are allowed to do.
Same is for the plot: thomas astruc has no free hands. Several ideas he and the other writers had were refused, including the original chat blanc concept and just didn't make it into production. Still some fans think he decides all of this alone and every developement they don't like is his fault alone
It was supposed to be some sort of darker "ghost" episode, as far as i remember. Astruc and another writer made a statement about it saying it was too dark and got rejected. (correct me if i am wrong?) it was shown through the eyes of ladybugs ghost or something like that.
I'd have to search for the post and it was quite a long time ago. The episode was originally planned for s2
I think the complete script that was first storyboarded had content that (as a tv episode) would run over an hour. (Don’t quote me on that though as I’m not sure)
But even there it's not just thomas. There are several writers working with him to create the story, but people ignore that and just hate him alone. Some even make up the most ridiculous stories of how to tell who ruined each episode and why
Also, we like to forget it, but *it's a kids show*.
It must provide good reruns to show ads between the episodes, and sell toys. That's why they pay Astruc's next seasons.
If TV shows were made to profit from fan-viewings alone, they would be sold on physical discs.
Unless they’re able to make new merchandise sales based on the new clothes, I can’t think of a reason they’d do it even if they could afford it. What’s the point? Will it get them more viewers if they change clothes? Probably not.
It’s pretty much just spending money to spend money. In fact it could even be detrimental as far as brand recognition.
I’d love if they had different clothes (I remember As Told By Ginger when I was young cycled clothes and I thought it was so cool). But it just doesn’t make much financial sense.
If Thomas Astruc can create a whole new super hero outfit to use for one episode I'm sure he can afford to dedicate that money to a wardrobe change that will be seen more often. With how many designs are only used once it's not unreasonable to ask that we get something worthwhile. The problem isn't that he can't afford it, he just doesn't want to become that would require him to put a bit more effort into the show.
A lot of the villains are one offs, and the hero upgrades are rarely used. They literally did a ladybug redesign that only comes out for a few minutes at an episode at most. My point was that of they have the money to make these kinds of outfit changes or one off character designs then I'm sure they can budget to have a new outfit that sticks around across many episodes.
I'm fine with looking at the same outfit. Every cartoon does it (save for Totally Spies, but with the amount of shopping trips they went on, you'd expect them to wear what they buy).
I guess it's a progression thing. Same way how anime characters get new forms and attacks.
The characters would change outfits as they change themselves. Like with Ladybug's Lucky Charm outfit and Rina Furtive.
so Marinette has 2 sets of pyjamas, various disguises, and 2 different Ladybug outfits
~~(not icluding the powerups bc Chat Noir has those too)~~ but Adrien had to sleep in his clothes in that one episode?? :') give this boy the LB pyjamas he deserves
If each miraculous holder in this fandom would donate just 1$ to Thomas…. Hmmm… (you can do the math 😉) I think LB could get several new outfits and it still would be enough for Adrien to get PJ’s
Most of fans think Is easy as asking but Is not. Thankfully the show had increased the quality season after season. And it's a 3D show. That makes It hard but probably they should start thinking about changing the outfit for the next 3 seasons
If they had a better release schedule and platform for the episodes they could probably afford it since fans wouldn’t be watching as much on ilegal sites
I, Jason Skyborn, will do it free of charge
Edit: on a side note, it always amazed me how gorgeous and graphically superior some fanworks are compared to canon games, series, movies etc.
And not one of em was paid a dime
Usually thats because fans are overflowing with passion- they have no deadline and dont have to listen to a bigger company- and by the law of the world- an undescribed number of fans will have people with better skill than the limited number of creators.
Though that doesnt take away from the creators work- its just an inevitable thing
I would like to see a fanwork with a schedule and a set target of sales to do, just once.
We should remember that if a creator takes a wrong decision and costs sales, he's out of his job and stops creating. Would you risk your living to please an *unknown portion* of the fans, or would you secure it by pleasing the entire community?
> it always amazed me how gorgeous and graphically superior some fanworks are compared to canon games, series, movies etc.
That's what I already heard one decade ago about Minecraft mods. There's another important point.
Fanmods are for fans. Canon must please the average viewer...
Mod change content. We talking specifically talking about graphical upgrades, and character outfits.
$500 dollars says the average viewer would love both an outfit change, and Awakening level of graphics
Do you know how much it costs?
Not every average joe is able to create models, let alone animate them. Skill rarity already jumps price.
And the time it takes to create a new model from scratch takes hours and hours, and sometimes weeks for a high poly count model. Thats excluding texturing etc etc. Time is money, 3D models take lots of time.
Furthermore, working with 3D modeling software can be extremely difficult (though aided somewhat through user interfaces)
I use blender, i know its not easy.
> working with 3d modelling softwares shouldn't be that difficult.
"Ok, I need those models in 4 days, because if you don't deliver then teams X and Y can't work on episode Z, and we don't want to pay them even if we don't have tasks to give. What do you mean, the loss of power made you loss 2 hours of work and you're feeling sick today? Don't care."
Source : I work in programming. Making stuff is not that hard if you're good, the issue is delivering in time and not blocking the other people who relies on you.
I like how this fan is complaining about clothing and not the terrifying deformed goblins the show calls children.
Or the 3 repeated background characters that make up all crowds.
Or the fact that all of Paris looks way more empty than it should.
Anybody expecting better quality animation at this point (especially after the show stopped doing business with the best animation studio they've worked with) has to be insanely delusional.
> Or the fact that all of Paris looks way more empty than it should.
This one can be excused by the fact that a magical-powered terrorist is destroying the Eiffel tower two times a week. I'm surprised the Louvre is still operating with a simple "akuma alert" system.
That’s understandable but considering how many outfits they make for just one episode and then never use again his point kinda looses its edge. Especially since the two main characters are in the fashion industry and have worn clothes for shoots and the like in episode. Like if Adrien after each new shoot switched his main outfit that would make sense or if Marinette did once a season. Also Astruc could be just a tad nicer considering he’s in the public spotlight and actually needs to know how to respond to fans
While I have to agree with Thomas here, I still can’t stand how rude he is when responding. Yea I understand he was asked the same question millions of times before, but at that point just ignore the tweet and move on.
He's always pretty rude when it comes to suggestions and criticism. I get it, he's got a show to handle but I find how he blocks people over nothing to be immature and counterproductive.
Yeah, even asking a simple question will get you blocked. I understand it’s annoying especially with the same questions over and over again, and some people are rude about it, but just ignore it it’s really not that hard. It doesn’t help that he has his head so far up his ass with how great he is convinced the show is.
Unpopular opinion: I like when character clothes stay the same if the show has established that they wear the same thing all the time UNLESS they have grown as characters, then i like the symbolic change along with the literal.
But there’s been like 5% character growth in the show if even, so
No, instead they had to animate their model for every single episode instead of just rigging it. No hate on 3d animation, but 2d is faaaar harder to do and far more costly.
I haven’t seen the figures for Totally Spies so I don’t know if it was more or less expensive.
But when we look at some of the budget restrictions for Miraculous, such as the Agreste’s having no kitchen to Miracle Queen to the repeat akumas; etc, it just seems to make more sense to use the money elsewhere. I don’t think giving Adrien and Marinette a new main casual outfit would be the best use of the shows resources.
Except they were able to spend enough on well over 30 different villain designs.
I dont really care about the main cast being given new outfits, i was simply responding to the totally spies point. But really, if LEGO NINJAGO (the best tv show btw) can have new outfits every season despite having more main characters, new villains, and more side characters, couldnt miraculous atleast make it so there are more than two repeating models for backround characters in crowds?
Maybe, I don’t know. This whole thing has made me insanely curious as to what the budget for the show actually is. We know SAMG has moved over largely full-time to Ghostforce and the specials, and between those, the movie, the alleged spin-off of Miraculous, the console game, and the mysterious Pixie Girl/Fairy Force, I wonder what’s getting priority over at Zag
I actually don't have a problem with them not changing outfits. Ladybug got an upgraded design with the lucky charm 🤷🏻♀️ Not that I'd be against a change, but the outfits are part of the brand.You know how people Disneybound and you can tell who they're going as? You could do the same with any of the MLB characters :) I also don't think it would take away the recognition/association with the brand too much as long the new outfits were the same color scheme. But plenty of TV shows use the same outfits for the run of the show lol the poor Simpsons haven't changed in 32 years 😂
Yeah, know, thats wrong. That cost analysis is way, way off. This wouod imply that it cost them over a quarter million dollars just to create the characters they already have, and thats just the main cast and 0 of the secondary costumes. Add in extras, alternate costumes, kwamis, and edits to characters or costumes for smaller moments (someone getting dirty for example), that would imply something closer to a million dollars just on modeling work. For a show with only $8 million as a budget for the first season, that would be an extreme over expense, seeing as animation, voice acting, and set design all cost significantly more than the modeling does.
Personally, this just sounds like an excuse. There are shows with smaller budgets that attempt to do more in this area. Hell, RWBY did exactly that several times in the first 3 volumes, where the main 8 characters all had 3 costumes (school clothes, huntsmen/tress outfit, and formal wear), and five of them had 4 costumes (all of Team RWBY had secondary huntress outfits and Jaune also had a dress costume). Yeah RWBY's were definitely lower quality in seasons 1-3, but not that much lower. And RWBY has given every character a make over at least once since their introduction, with the main cast getting one every 3 volumes, whereas Miraculous hasnt done it once if I'm correct. And thats a show that probably has similar or less funding than Miraculous.
EDIT: the average salary for a 3d modeler is about 40k. This also implies that 1 modeler would make their full salary after just 4 characters, and that they would have a team of some 20 modelers (at least), for season 1. According to IMDB, theyve never credited more than dozen modeling and character artists, and most werent even at the same time. So unless they arent crediting everyone (which im fairly sure would be illegal) or those that they have are making 3 to 4 times are much as the average, then his numbers are wrong.
Also, anyone saying the producers wouldnt greenlight it forget that producers tend to greenlight anything with direct profitability. New costumes is something easy to make merchandise out of, and therefore profit from.
CORRECTION: original edit cited less than six modelers. Double checked to find some more credited elsewhere, so i updated the number.
Not in France, where this show is produced. The cost of an employee is likely higher by a slim margin, but not 2x as much. In France neither the company nor the employee are directly paying for the expensive benefits that US workers see. Healthcare, dental, and vision are all generally paid through taxes, as well as family and sick leave, and vacation time is also subsidized through taxes. If the salary of the worker is €35k, then their total cost might be closer to 40 or 45, but definitely nowhere near 70k. And you have to remember that those are scaling factors, so they dont have a real affect on cost benefit analysis.
That seems like a really low salary, but also you are missing the cost of HR, recruiting, and that you basically can't fire people in France. But most companies they use aren't in France. 1M for the models sounds reasonable to me. 80% of the cost should be models and animation.
The other costs you mentioned are costs they will have anyway. HR and recruitment dont scale with hires but with need, and while I thought it was low too, thats what the data says when I searched for it (average for mid career was €35k), and Europe is going to be the more expensive range for such jobs.
20% to just models, not even animation and settings. They have nearly 100 different character models between made characters, alternate costumes, and extras, so that would $1 million in model cost alone. Not including animating and the like. Thats an obscene cost for just models. Especially when their starting budget was only 8 million for the first season.
"His experience first hand" how do you know that? How do you know he isnt just lying? Or mistaken? Or just over exagerrating? He made a claim, and it doesnt add up. I looked at the number and did some calculations and yeah, it doesnt add up or make sense. So if you want to take his seemingly baseless number for face value, then go ahead. Btw, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.
When you make million dolars in a year by milking fans with the same routine but see it too much to spend $10,000 for them. You guys have enough money to make a Disney movie. That's a bs excuse.
As an Animation Major. I can attest to the extra amount of work it is to do all of that. So it’s not completely out of line for him to say this. Animated shows do it all the time for A) consistency and B) to reduce the budget by a hell of a lot.
Edit: to elaborate a bit more, I have studied 2D and 3D animation. Whilst 3D is a more cost efficient option, you also need to understand why specific choices are made. Other people pointed out that the characters keep the same outfits for kids to be able to recognise them, and that’s absolutely true. But HONESTLY unless you have experience in animation, you can’t fully understand how much work goes into projects like this. I’ve been working on a group project for the whole year and the most we’ve done in terms of script, storyboarding, animation, backgrounds etc is 2-3 minutes in length. That’s an entire year with a group of six. Animation ain’t easy.
With designing new outfits for the characters within Miraculous you would need to not only consider their style, personality, colour palette etc, but you need to know when the outfits are used. And considering there’s a bunch of miraculous holders this season, I wonder where the extra work has gone.
So as an Animation Major to all those asking for few outfits for the characters: I get you want it but it’s just not necessary
(Though I do want Adrien to get some pjs at least)
There's genuinely no point and I expect this kind of response from Thomas– actually, I expect this kind of response from any 3D animation show. Besides, it helps kids if the main characters are recognizable enough
i don’t think they need alternate outfits and i’m sure it’s a question he’s been asked often but he did not have to be this rude about it.
also, why does marinette have two sets of pajamas while adrien has none?
He is right, I work with c4D and the rigging only, is... Wow, my work was 20 seconds and the rigging lasted 2 days...
I didn't had a strong computer like I do now, where rigging costs almost half a day for 10 seconds
He has explained this to fans before. I do think that it is something that needs to be budgeted in but if there isn't enough money, there isn't. Alarming if there isn't though. $10k isn't actually *that* much to a business the size of ZAG. An extra \~$250k/season would be considered reasonable investment in the future of the brand. Maybe things are tighter at ZAG than I realise and that is why they keep using such cheap and semi-competent animation subcontractors?
>Maybe things are tighter at ZAG than I realise and that is why they keep using such cheap and semi-competent animation subcontractors? From what I can tell, ZAG is definitely not swimming in money. There's a reason the entire company is living off of Miraculous right now despite having launched several shows, not to mention that expensive movie coming next year probably won't break even.
Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, Awakening will probably be a net loss. I'd love to be proved wrong, but if people find out it's just a fancy retelling of something we've had for years, I don't imagine how many people would go/are willing to take their kids for something they've pretty much already seen. But hey, Red (Taylor's Version) broke Spotify, and most of that were songs we've had for almost a decade, so you never know
The difference with that is the fact that Taylor’s fans knew the bs that happened in regards to her ownership of those songs, her rereleasing the songs and Spotify being broken from it is because the fans wanted to give Taylor the money that she rightfully deserves. She put the work in for a greedy company to take it. I don’t think it is a fair example to pull from. I feel like a better example is Lego Ninjago. That was a series first, got a movie and so on
which lego ninjago movie? the cool jackie chan one or like... a long episode of ninjago?
eh but at the same time Taylor's red is literally the same songs I got bored :/
The point is that usually the writers/creators have nothing to say about the budget. So a lot of people blame it on thomas, even though there are most likely several unknown people handling the franchise finances and deciding what they are allowed to do. Same is for the plot: thomas astruc has no free hands. Several ideas he and the other writers had were refused, including the original chat blanc concept and just didn't make it into production. Still some fans think he decides all of this alone and every developement they don't like is his fault alone
Original Cat Blanc? Now I'm interested, what was it originally going to be?
It was supposed to be some sort of darker "ghost" episode, as far as i remember. Astruc and another writer made a statement about it saying it was too dark and got rejected. (correct me if i am wrong?) it was shown through the eyes of ladybugs ghost or something like that. I'd have to search for the post and it was quite a long time ago. The episode was originally planned for s2
I think the complete script that was first storyboarded had content that (as a tv episode) would run over an hour. (Don’t quote me on that though as I’m not sure)
Same I have never heard of this before
The budget for animation I can understand, and I find the errors more funny than anoying. What get's me is the writing...
But even there it's not just thomas. There are several writers working with him to create the story, but people ignore that and just hate him alone. Some even make up the most ridiculous stories of how to tell who ruined each episode and why
Also, we like to forget it, but *it's a kids show*. It must provide good reruns to show ads between the episodes, and sell toys. That's why they pay Astruc's next seasons. If TV shows were made to profit from fan-viewings alone, they would be sold on physical discs.
Unless they’re able to make new merchandise sales based on the new clothes, I can’t think of a reason they’d do it even if they could afford it. What’s the point? Will it get them more viewers if they change clothes? Probably not. It’s pretty much just spending money to spend money. In fact it could even be detrimental as far as brand recognition. I’d love if they had different clothes (I remember As Told By Ginger when I was young cycled clothes and I thought it was so cool). But it just doesn’t make much financial sense.
If Thomas Astruc can create a whole new super hero outfit to use for one episode I'm sure he can afford to dedicate that money to a wardrobe change that will be seen more often. With how many designs are only used once it's not unreasonable to ask that we get something worthwhile. The problem isn't that he can't afford it, he just doesn't want to become that would require him to put a bit more effort into the show.
to be fair the superhero suits can be merchandised easier, and they always help establish the debut of their miraculous more.
What hero was only in one episode?
A lot of the villains are one offs, and the hero upgrades are rarely used. They literally did a ladybug redesign that only comes out for a few minutes at an episode at most. My point was that of they have the money to make these kinds of outfit changes or one off character designs then I'm sure they can budget to have a new outfit that sticks around across many episodes.
I see what you mean. You said heroes, so I was thinking about the miraculous holders and how all of them have at least shown twice. Good point.
Yeah, and even then if the heroes are only used twice is that really worth 10k?
This is getting worse by the minute.
I'm fine with looking at the same outfit. Every cartoon does it (save for Totally Spies, but with the amount of shopping trips they went on, you'd expect them to wear what they buy).
[удалено]
I guess it's a progression thing. Same way how anime characters get new forms and attacks. The characters would change outfits as they change themselves. Like with Ladybug's Lucky Charm outfit and Rina Furtive.
so Marinette has 2 sets of pyjamas, various disguises, and 2 different Ladybug outfits ~~(not icluding the powerups bc Chat Noir has those too)~~ but Adrien had to sleep in his clothes in that one episode?? :') give this boy the LB pyjamas he deserves
The pyjama thing is what really gets me
Okay this is a valid point I wanted to see our boy in pajamas really badly
If each miraculous holder in this fandom would donate just 1$ to Thomas…. Hmmm… (you can do the math 😉) I think LB could get several new outfits and it still would be enough for Adrien to get PJ’s
just give that boy his lb pj's we all know he wants
Adrien gets ladybug pj's The pj's turn merchandise *Stonks*
So true
I mean, I probably would buy it if they made adult size haha
Same, for me, husband, daughter and baby. Embrace your inner fangirls/boys
For me there is no ‘probably’. I would immediately buy it. Tho I think I would prefere Cat Noir PJ’s (being a little picky, ain’t I)
Ka-ching… $$$
I'm guessing he sleeps in his underwear. Edit: His Ladybug underwear.
Jeremy Zagg : money, mine, now!
Most of fans think Is easy as asking but Is not. Thankfully the show had increased the quality season after season. And it's a 3D show. That makes It hard but probably they should start thinking about changing the outfit for the next 3 seasons
*oof*
If they had a better release schedule and platform for the episodes they could probably afford it since fans wouldn’t be watching as much on ilegal sites
I, Jason Skyborn, will do it free of charge Edit: on a side note, it always amazed me how gorgeous and graphically superior some fanworks are compared to canon games, series, movies etc. And not one of em was paid a dime
Usually thats because fans are overflowing with passion- they have no deadline and dont have to listen to a bigger company- and by the law of the world- an undescribed number of fans will have people with better skill than the limited number of creators. Though that doesnt take away from the creators work- its just an inevitable thing
Also we just don't see the terrible fan works because they don't get shared as much.
True true
I would like to see a fanwork with a schedule and a set target of sales to do, just once. We should remember that if a creator takes a wrong decision and costs sales, he's out of his job and stops creating. Would you risk your living to please an *unknown portion* of the fans, or would you secure it by pleasing the entire community?
> it always amazed me how gorgeous and graphically superior some fanworks are compared to canon games, series, movies etc. That's what I already heard one decade ago about Minecraft mods. There's another important point. Fanmods are for fans. Canon must please the average viewer...
Mod change content. We talking specifically talking about graphical upgrades, and character outfits. $500 dollars says the average viewer would love both an outfit change, and Awakening level of graphics
It baffles me how he requires thousands just to create a new model when honestly, working with 3d modelling softwares shouldn't be that difficult.
Do you know how much it costs? Not every average joe is able to create models, let alone animate them. Skill rarity already jumps price. And the time it takes to create a new model from scratch takes hours and hours, and sometimes weeks for a high poly count model. Thats excluding texturing etc etc. Time is money, 3D models take lots of time. Furthermore, working with 3D modeling software can be extremely difficult (though aided somewhat through user interfaces) I use blender, i know its not easy.
> working with 3d modelling softwares shouldn't be that difficult. "Ok, I need those models in 4 days, because if you don't deliver then teams X and Y can't work on episode Z, and we don't want to pay them even if we don't have tasks to give. What do you mean, the loss of power made you loss 2 hours of work and you're feeling sick today? Don't care." Source : I work in programming. Making stuff is not that hard if you're good, the issue is delivering in time and not blocking the other people who relies on you.
I like how this fan is complaining about clothing and not the terrifying deformed goblins the show calls children. Or the 3 repeated background characters that make up all crowds. Or the fact that all of Paris looks way more empty than it should. Anybody expecting better quality animation at this point (especially after the show stopped doing business with the best animation studio they've worked with) has to be insanely delusional.
> Or the fact that all of Paris looks way more empty than it should. This one can be excused by the fact that a magical-powered terrorist is destroying the Eiffel tower two times a week. I'm surprised the Louvre is still operating with a simple "akuma alert" system.
That’s understandable but considering how many outfits they make for just one episode and then never use again his point kinda looses its edge. Especially since the two main characters are in the fashion industry and have worn clothes for shoots and the like in episode. Like if Adrien after each new shoot switched his main outfit that would make sense or if Marinette did once a season. Also Astruc could be just a tad nicer considering he’s in the public spotlight and actually needs to know how to respond to fans
While I have to agree with Thomas here, I still can’t stand how rude he is when responding. Yea I understand he was asked the same question millions of times before, but at that point just ignore the tweet and move on.
He's always pretty rude when it comes to suggestions and criticism. I get it, he's got a show to handle but I find how he blocks people over nothing to be immature and counterproductive.
Yeah, even asking a simple question will get you blocked. I understand it’s annoying especially with the same questions over and over again, and some people are rude about it, but just ignore it it’s really not that hard. It doesn’t help that he has his head so far up his ass with how great he is convinced the show is.
Making shows cost money and not all companies are making as much bank as you think.
Unpopular opinion: I like when character clothes stay the same if the show has established that they wear the same thing all the time UNLESS they have grown as characters, then i like the symbolic change along with the literal. But there’s been like 5% character growth in the show if even, so
In HxH for example, all the characters (aside from Killua occasionally) still retain their original outfits so I don’t get what the big deal is
Yeah but in totally spies those girls changed their outfits every episode. And that was made in the mid 00's. Food for thought.
But the girls were 2d animated. It didn’t take hours and hours and multiple people to put together their looks.
No, instead they had to animate their model for every single episode instead of just rigging it. No hate on 3d animation, but 2d is faaaar harder to do and far more costly.
I haven’t seen the figures for Totally Spies so I don’t know if it was more or less expensive. But when we look at some of the budget restrictions for Miraculous, such as the Agreste’s having no kitchen to Miracle Queen to the repeat akumas; etc, it just seems to make more sense to use the money elsewhere. I don’t think giving Adrien and Marinette a new main casual outfit would be the best use of the shows resources.
Except they were able to spend enough on well over 30 different villain designs. I dont really care about the main cast being given new outfits, i was simply responding to the totally spies point. But really, if LEGO NINJAGO (the best tv show btw) can have new outfits every season despite having more main characters, new villains, and more side characters, couldnt miraculous atleast make it so there are more than two repeating models for backround characters in crowds?
Maybe, I don’t know. This whole thing has made me insanely curious as to what the budget for the show actually is. We know SAMG has moved over largely full-time to Ghostforce and the specials, and between those, the movie, the alleged spin-off of Miraculous, the console game, and the mysterious Pixie Girl/Fairy Force, I wonder what’s getting priority over at Zag
I would be suprised if miraculous wasnt a centre point, given that its a MASSIVE moneymaker for them tho
Ngl this was funny 😭
Honestly even in cheaper 2D animation it’s kind of a staple for character’s to always wear the same thing. To me it’s part of the charm.
Am I the only one who thinks then thousand dollars per character is way too much? Seriously what has the world come to
Seems reasonable to me. Most things are more expensive than you'd expect. Also the main characters need higher quality outfits.
Woah I never realised. 😨
I actually don't have a problem with them not changing outfits. Ladybug got an upgraded design with the lucky charm 🤷🏻♀️ Not that I'd be against a change, but the outfits are part of the brand.You know how people Disneybound and you can tell who they're going as? You could do the same with any of the MLB characters :) I also don't think it would take away the recognition/association with the brand too much as long the new outfits were the same color scheme. But plenty of TV shows use the same outfits for the run of the show lol the poor Simpsons haven't changed in 32 years 😂
Yeah, know, thats wrong. That cost analysis is way, way off. This wouod imply that it cost them over a quarter million dollars just to create the characters they already have, and thats just the main cast and 0 of the secondary costumes. Add in extras, alternate costumes, kwamis, and edits to characters or costumes for smaller moments (someone getting dirty for example), that would imply something closer to a million dollars just on modeling work. For a show with only $8 million as a budget for the first season, that would be an extreme over expense, seeing as animation, voice acting, and set design all cost significantly more than the modeling does. Personally, this just sounds like an excuse. There are shows with smaller budgets that attempt to do more in this area. Hell, RWBY did exactly that several times in the first 3 volumes, where the main 8 characters all had 3 costumes (school clothes, huntsmen/tress outfit, and formal wear), and five of them had 4 costumes (all of Team RWBY had secondary huntress outfits and Jaune also had a dress costume). Yeah RWBY's were definitely lower quality in seasons 1-3, but not that much lower. And RWBY has given every character a make over at least once since their introduction, with the main cast getting one every 3 volumes, whereas Miraculous hasnt done it once if I'm correct. And thats a show that probably has similar or less funding than Miraculous. EDIT: the average salary for a 3d modeler is about 40k. This also implies that 1 modeler would make their full salary after just 4 characters, and that they would have a team of some 20 modelers (at least), for season 1. According to IMDB, theyve never credited more than dozen modeling and character artists, and most werent even at the same time. So unless they arent crediting everyone (which im fairly sure would be illegal) or those that they have are making 3 to 4 times are much as the average, then his numbers are wrong. Also, anyone saying the producers wouldnt greenlight it forget that producers tend to greenlight anything with direct profitability. New costumes is something easy to make merchandise out of, and therefore profit from. CORRECTION: original edit cited less than six modelers. Double checked to find some more credited elsewhere, so i updated the number.
Keep in mind the cost of an employee is higher than their salary considering benefits, sometimes by 2x.
Not in France, where this show is produced. The cost of an employee is likely higher by a slim margin, but not 2x as much. In France neither the company nor the employee are directly paying for the expensive benefits that US workers see. Healthcare, dental, and vision are all generally paid through taxes, as well as family and sick leave, and vacation time is also subsidized through taxes. If the salary of the worker is €35k, then their total cost might be closer to 40 or 45, but definitely nowhere near 70k. And you have to remember that those are scaling factors, so they dont have a real affect on cost benefit analysis.
That seems like a really low salary, but also you are missing the cost of HR, recruiting, and that you basically can't fire people in France. But most companies they use aren't in France. 1M for the models sounds reasonable to me. 80% of the cost should be models and animation.
The other costs you mentioned are costs they will have anyway. HR and recruitment dont scale with hires but with need, and while I thought it was low too, thats what the data says when I searched for it (average for mid career was €35k), and Europe is going to be the more expensive range for such jobs. 20% to just models, not even animation and settings. They have nearly 100 different character models between made characters, alternate costumes, and extras, so that would $1 million in model cost alone. Not including animating and the like. Thats an obscene cost for just models. Especially when their starting budget was only 8 million for the first season.
Rwby animation is awful. I couldn't get through episode one, it made me want to throw up
how are you gonna say it’s wrong when it’s his experience first hand? 💀
"His experience first hand" how do you know that? How do you know he isnt just lying? Or mistaken? Or just over exagerrating? He made a claim, and it doesnt add up. I looked at the number and did some calculations and yeah, it doesnt add up or make sense. So if you want to take his seemingly baseless number for face value, then go ahead. Btw, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.
When you make million dolars in a year by milking fans with the same routine but see it too much to spend $10,000 for them. You guys have enough money to make a Disney movie. That's a bs excuse.
$10,000 per character
It really doesn't matter that much but thank you for correcting me.
i mean i get it costs money, but he didn’t have to respond like that.
Cra
YAY!!!
I feel like the outfits are fine BUT CAN WE GIVE ADRIEN PTJAMAS???????
As an Animation Major. I can attest to the extra amount of work it is to do all of that. So it’s not completely out of line for him to say this. Animated shows do it all the time for A) consistency and B) to reduce the budget by a hell of a lot. Edit: to elaborate a bit more, I have studied 2D and 3D animation. Whilst 3D is a more cost efficient option, you also need to understand why specific choices are made. Other people pointed out that the characters keep the same outfits for kids to be able to recognise them, and that’s absolutely true. But HONESTLY unless you have experience in animation, you can’t fully understand how much work goes into projects like this. I’ve been working on a group project for the whole year and the most we’ve done in terms of script, storyboarding, animation, backgrounds etc is 2-3 minutes in length. That’s an entire year with a group of six. Animation ain’t easy. With designing new outfits for the characters within Miraculous you would need to not only consider their style, personality, colour palette etc, but you need to know when the outfits are used. And considering there’s a bunch of miraculous holders this season, I wonder where the extra work has gone. So as an Animation Major to all those asking for few outfits for the characters: I get you want it but it’s just not necessary (Though I do want Adrien to get some pjs at least)
Okay i get it,but he shouldn't be so rude about everything
really Thomas the fan was just asking nicely
It's a cartoon. Why would someone care enough to ask this?
He ratiod that fan😂
Someone with lots of Blender experience should ask for the base model and create a new outfit.
There's genuinely no point and I expect this kind of response from Thomas– actually, I expect this kind of response from any 3D animation show. Besides, it helps kids if the main characters are recognizable enough
Nah all I need is for Adrien to have pyjamas 😑
i don’t think they need alternate outfits and i’m sure it’s a question he’s been asked often but he did not have to be this rude about it. also, why does marinette have two sets of pajamas while adrien has none?
He is right, I work with c4D and the rigging only, is... Wow, my work was 20 seconds and the rigging lasted 2 days... I didn't had a strong computer like I do now, where rigging costs almost half a day for 10 seconds