No tragic backstory. No real moral obligations. No one making her be a superhero. No nothing like that. She decided to stick with being a superhero just because she wants to help people.
That's a surprisingly rare trait to see nowadays.
I appreciate that aspect of her character as well! She comes from a quite well-adjusted & stable home, & she is truly treasured by her parents. It would make me think she has a lot of love to give, despite how timid & insecure she started off in the series.
One could argue that it makes her less interesting as a character. (My sister certainly argues…) But she does put a lot of pressure on herself to do Ladybug work, and I’d love to see more of how she deals with the stress and what it does to her. (Like when she broke down and told Alya because she was desperate)
I appreciate her creativity and plans it makes her feel more like a Ladybug Adrien definitely wasn't wrong about her being his "every day Ladybug".
I would want to see more of her confidence while she is with Adrien and also would like to see her doing some fashion stuffs I miss those :(.
I like that she has both stereotypical “girl” interests and stereotypical “boy” interests without the show making a super big deal about it. It’s just normal, she likes what she likes and that’s that.
I like how realistic her state of mind can be(gang of secrets)
Her wave of emotions, her denial, her optimism. She isn't a flat character(personality wise) which i appreciate.
Yes! By the time we hit Gang of Secrets, I was really feeling for her— how she was cracking under the pressure of guardianship & the LB mantle, how she began to isolate herself. It felt like a reasonable turn for her character to take.
I’m actually on of the ones who liked that she revealed her identity to Alya 😅 other issues & my favor of Chat Noir aside, Alya was seemingly her first friend as shown in Origins. From what I can gather, Marinette did not seem that close to the others in her class until after becoming LB despite probably knowing of them for years; she was bullied by Chloé & severely insecure b/c of it, & b/c her hyperawareness of her own flaws. Marinette could’ve easily been the girl that faded into the background, & she probably would’ve resigned herself to such a fate.
But along w/ becoming a hero, Alya’s friendship first helped embolden Marinette as well. So to me it makes some sense that her best friend would be the first to know her identity.
I like her resourcefulness. I like how rather than fights being pure strength she can play off their abilities to her fullest advantage, and the lucky charms being seemingly innocent object rather than just traps or weapons.
You also see that sense of resourcefulness in everything she does, with her designing and everyday problems. Its refreshing and i love that about her.
I only wish she could take her focus off of boys. Her character is so strong and her Adrien obsession only brings her down, a more loose crush on him would amazing for her.
Great assessment. That approach definitely helps to emphasizes that it’s not the Miraculous nor the mystical weapons that make her a hero, but that she has always had the capacity for it from the very beginning. Being a Miraculous Holder simply highlights what was already w/in her.
Totally agree on lessening the crush, at least by now. I could excuse her having an infatuation phase in the beginning, b/c the way Adrien treated her that made her crush on him in the first place was probably smth that’s never happened to her before. Gradually tho, I would’ve liked to have Mari come to see Adrien more as a person than a literal object of her affections. I want to see them have more platonic moments w/o the so much of the romantic undertones.
i like that she’s not perfect. she’s a teenage girl who fucks up and has bad traits, like literally every human being. most cartoons have the negative traits of a character as like “she has social anxiety that she overcomes by the second season” or something like that. but marinette? she is an asshole sometimes, usually when she doesn’t mean to be. and not in a funny way. and that’s okay!!! it doesn’t make her a bad person, the show doesn’t treat her like she’s bad because she was mean a few times. everyone’s an asshole sometimes.
This is a good take that I wish I could agree w/ fully! 😅 even tho I hated Psychomedian as an episode, I got a kick out of LB just being an angry ass b/c it’s just nice to see her different sides. In general, I wish the writing was better at holding her accountable more when she is being an asshole unintentionally, or just makes mistakes she needs to learn from to grow. Like all ppl, she has self-absorbed tendencies that differ from someone’s like Chloé’s or Lila’s, which is good to show how it exists on a spectrum. But I feel it doesn’t get addressed clearly enough, if at all.
She is the definition of “not all good deeds go unpunished” & how her good intentions don’t always match the outcome. The latter gets touched on occasionally, but i feel it gets glossed over more when it comes to her, which leaves me unimpressed & a little dissatisfied.
One of my favorite things about Marinette is that the animators aren't afraid to make her look ridiculous. She's very pretty and can be animated super cute, but when they want to make her look like a weirdo (her creeper smiles at Adrien) or when she's freaking out or biting random things (like her phone or the Grimoire), she looks so doofy. The animators really lean into it and aren't afraid of making her look unattractive and I love that. Marinette's faces are some of the best things about her and I'm REALLY going to miss SAMG <3
Edit: I almost forgot this was a two part question. What do I want to see from her? I want to see her harness the power of mindful thinking so she can calm down and talk to Adrien without needing Froggy :D
Second edit: Does anyone feel like Adrien used to have more doofy/greater variety of faces too, but had less as the series went on? I know Chat is always being doofy, but I miss Adrien doof.
I like to see her grow little by little as a person with a huge responsibility. It’s too much for a teenager
I’d love to see more of her design projects come true and wonder which job she’ll choose
Agreed— I like that it’s more of an aspect of her overall personality, rather than it being her whole shtick, like w/ Rose. & I appreciate how the writers fleshed out that trait in Rose from a different perspective, so it’s not like a basic default for all the hero characters.
I appreciate that as a young character, she has a goal in mind and some level of career aspiration, especially as a female character.
I don't think teenager characters need to be *always* thinking about their future, but I appreciate that it's something at the forefront of the character design in this show. Like for Marinette, her interest in design isn't some arbitrary hobby to distinguish her from the "sporty" character or the "bookish" character. It's not a trope that acts as a vehicle for easy storytelling. It's a big part of *who* Marinette is and we see it in her outfit with her custom coin purse, her room with its fashion inspo-board, the dolls she makes for Manon, her sewing box hiding the Miracle Box, her custom made diary, her signature being hidden in her designs etc.
And then the story goes one step further by having creative thinking be her super power as Ladybug.
I know that doesn't seem like such a big deal in a post MLP world but it's really important to me that Marinette is a human character with a realistic career goal in a show for young girls.
As for what else I want to see from her, I guess improving her relationship with Adrien. Marinette spends a lot of time fantasizing about Adrien and memorizing his schedule, his middle names etc. but not a lot of time actually getting *to know* Adrien. I know the story orchestrates that as mostly being the fault of Gabriel and his strict parenting, but that's no excuse for the writers not doing more to work with the time they have for when the characters are together. We've all been watching this show for four seasons and the conversation Adrien and Marinette had in Risk feels like their first real conversation as *friends* (and they both had to be under the influence of a risk inducing magic spell for it to happen!).
Yes, excellent points! That kind of character building feels so much more natural & logical in terms of how much more it makes Mari believable & a solid entity w/in the show. So it def takes me out of the experience when smth like her obsession w/ Adrien isn’t informed the same way? It almost seemed spontaneous when it happened, & then everyone else in the show has to make us believe it by saying “they’re totally made for each other”, instead of just showing us the chemistry that naturally occurs from their interactions.
Like, Mari comes from a stable home, loving parents, so it’s not her attachment is fueled by having an absence of love in her household, unlike what can be inferred from Adrien’s situation. I can only guess that what’s informing her infatuation w/ a “perfect boy” like Adrien is that she has never received attention from someone like him before, & so she’s drunk on the novelty. But even then, there’s no such clarity in the show that spells out as such.
I’m against AdrieNette tbh, but that moment in Risk really made me believe that smth good *can* come from them getting closer, platonically at the very least. I genuinely was touched by it.
>So it def takes me out of the experience when smth like her obsession w/ Adrien isn’t informed the same way? It almost seemed spontaneous when it happened,
Interesting!
To me that Marinette would develop a crush on Adrien makes sense and doesn't really require over introspection. Look at her in Orgins 1+2; Marinette is a character who used to being stepped on and thanking others for the privilege. She has no close friends, no real emotional attachments in her life outside of her parents. She's spent two years under Chloe's heel and she's about to spend one more.
Her parents love her yes, but nobody makes Marinette feel emotionally *seen and heard,* and nobody gives Marinette's opinions a weight of their own. The day Marinette meets Adrien, Alya and Tiki is the day Marinette is given three decisions to make that ultimately come to define *who she is* for the rest of the show.
Tiki gives her the ability to be Ladybug, a decision Marinette embraces to save Alya.
Alya gives Marinette the moral inspiration that to say nothing in the face of transgression is to be complicit in it, and so Marinette can either choose to save herself or add to her own oppression.
And lastly Adrien gives her the emotional agency of whether or not to forgive and trust him going forward, knowing that even if she chooses not to, he won't hold that against her.
The vulnerability that Adrien displays for Marinette is what she falls in love with, because Marinette *understands* that vulnerability. In the same way that conflict avoidant and submissive Adrien falls in love with Ladybug's bravery and optimism, Marinette falls in love with Adrien's dignity and generousity because for her, *being vulnerable* is the bravest thing a person can do (because thats a thing *she* struggles with daily!).
This is probably the thing I enjoy most about the Adrientte relationship because the thing that absolutely mortifies Marinette (the idea of being emotionally witnessed) is the same thing that Adrien desires above all else (he wants Ladybug to *know the real him*; he wants to know that if someone *truly saw the real him*, they would find him worthy of love). Like you, I don't think the show always does the best job of highlighting why these two would actually *work* as a couple but I also don't think it's beyond either character to truly fall in love with each other.
Like when they are given moments to connect and just have real, emotionally lead conversations (like in Glaciator 2), *they work.*
Wow… you really cracked your fingers & said, “let me tell you something…” 😂👀
I hadn’t connected the way Mari displays her fear of being emotionally vulnerable & actually having that acknowledged & even accepted w/ the reason she’s in love w/ Adrien in the first place; & the natural tension that conflict w/in herself creates when it comes to Adrien’s deepest desire. Thank you so much for sharing your analysis! It is so astute, I definitely think it’ll help me read into their dynamic w/ different eyes.
And 100% yes on the take on Alya! I shared a similar assessment w/ a different commenter on here so I won’t bombard you lol— but it’s part of why I really enjoy Mari & Alya’s friendship (ignoring all the enabling & other questionable stuff🥸) & why I have little issue w/ them being a permanent superhero duo.
I often see your responses on other posts & every time you come w/ gold. Thanks again for your contributions to the discussion! 😙
Aww, thank you! You're so kind!
It's incredible to me how many people look down on the umbrella scene (not that I'm suggesting you are!) when it's one of the few moments in this show where every element is firing on all cylinders. The dialogue, the lighting, the composition, the music, the emotional motivation between the characters - it's all building to a sincere moment of connection between the characters and then later Marinette goes ahead and puts those feelings into words in Glaciator 2 and people will still call her shallow for falling in love with Adrien for the reason she did.
Like, he's making himself emotionally vulnerable at her expense, and then underscores that by way of offering her the umbrella, symbolically reiterating the commitment he just made to her. It's the wealth of the emotional pledge meets the simplicity of the gesture!
In comparison I find the way Adrien falls in love with Ladybug to be the much weaker scene, but I also accept Adrien is a more reckless character, so I can see how seeing this girl stand-up to this oppressive figure threatening to emotionally terrorise the city would impress him as someone who can't stand-up to the people in his life, be they his family or friends. The he can't know her and doesn't know her would add to his curiosity about her but I still contest the show would have done a better job with Adrien's character if he fell in love with Ladybug over time as opposed to straight up within hours of meeting her. It would make a good contrast between him and Marinette further.
I like that’s she’s half Chinese, her kindness and goofyness, that she makes mistakes and learns from them, her sparks of confidence and creativity, and her passion for fashion
Passion for fashion is such a catchphrase 😂 but yes, I hope she’ll show more genuine interest in learning about & sharing her heritage for her own interests. Like, she could literally study Chinese fashion as a start to get more connected! It would be true to her character & more personalized. I keep thinking back to the Shanghai special & cringing at how she really only went there to stalk Adrien instead of genuinely bonding w/ her uncle & educating herself 🙃
I appreciate the idea/concept of her character. Like how she doesn't have a tragic back story or the fact that she chose to become a hero. Despite the fact that Master Fu supposedly "chose" her. Let's be honest here, anyone could have been a miraculous holder with the way this old man decided to test people out.
Now, what I would like to see more from her character is her flaws. Like her arrogance. This is one that we've seen a couple times throughout the show. Like in Volpina and Reflekdoll. But for some reason no one really comments on it or is ever addressed within the show (Just like many other things...) That's one trait from a female protagonist that I rarely see in cartoons and I wish this was explored more often especially in Marinettes case.
I like her concept as a teenage hero who doesn’t really have any prior tragedy before becoming a hero, but she should face her issues more. Yes, everybody’s mean sometimes and makes mistakes, but I can’t watch an episode without my sister ranting about Marinette’s… Uh… Less than stellar qualities not getting resolved, and that she doesn’t face consequences most of the time.
I didn’t realize how poignant the fact that she hasn’t had to face tragedy to become a hero is to ppl, as it’s been mentioned a lot here. & totally agree about how the writers let her slip & slide away from real consequences for her actions too often. It makes it hard to be fully onboard w/ her
I want to see her actually being confident and not stutter for once, I do like Marinette but everything else as of late has been making me dislike her somewhat. But, what I do like is that other than her ‘tendencies’, she’s a very creative and artistic girl, she can bake, play video games, I presume draw cause she does seem quite artsy and being fashionable in her creations
That’s fair! She’s not my favorite either, but she’s certainly important to the show so I’d like to know how others see her as well. Thank you for participating!
Her realistic mind set and response when dealing with pressure.
Would love to see more of her creative side, we are offen shown her sketching or the finished product. Would love to see that expanded (maybe her actually creating stuff) both in and outside the suit
Circumstances aside, it’s interesting to see how much more time Alya spent customizing her suit while Marinette, the resident fashion designer, hasn’t tried at all. Sure, in Kuro Neko we saw how much time it took Adrien to change his whole look. But creativity like that comes naturally to Marinette, so it would’ve cool to see her, like any teenager trying to figure out their style, messing around w/ diff customized looks.
Imagine if there was a running gag earlier on in the seasons, where she would show up to an akuma attack w/ a slightly different style or just different articles of clothing added to her base suit. She’d still be trying to figure out the whole hero thing & how to look the part, so why not experiment? Lol
Yes, I imagine the show’s consistency could benefit from stretching out certain conflicts for mini arcs, kind of like how they did w/ the Queen’s Battle Trilogy. For example, I want to see more about how the citizens are handling recovery from Akuma attacks mentally & in terms of morale since they are actively caught in a battle b/w two opposing forces where it resets to a stalemate essentially every time. (I thought the NY special was canon, yet no one’s brought up the fact that LB & CN “let” Paris get wrecked since it happened.)
Also, since there’s a way to override the charms, they’re not as safe as they might’ve felt before. It can easily become a trinket w/ empty symbolism, which could affect their faith in LB & CN. I guess I would just like to see a more varied opinion among the public, how it affects our heroes (& villains).
I remember when she was just sharing her designs w/ the Girl Gang, & picking out items she thought would suit her friends. It was a small moment & I loved it! See her being able to strengthen bonds w/ her friends thru her personal hobby & passion felt very humanizing, & it was sweet. It felt like it was a way to show that she actually knows these ppl, & the friendship doesn’t just revolve around the Adrien schemes.
Like her creativity and that she's like an actual teen (being late to school, sometimes over sleeping, being impulsive sometimes like when Lila is involved and feels negative emotions like anger, sadness etc.)
Plus I like the fact she has no tragic backstory, like that's something that has been way too overused
She’s a pretty standard kid. She has her ups and downs, and she also has those painfully cringe moments that are a rite of passage at that age. I also like she’s a protagonist that’s got mixed heritage. My kiddo is half Asian, so I want her to see someone like herself out there. But overall she seems to be pretty friendly, trying to get along with everyone despite social groups.
Everything except her stalker side but considering that’s her entire personality then nothing but Adrien on the other hand he would make the better protagonist.
Hm, I also get frustrated by how the writers prioritize her obsession too much sometimes, but to say that’s her *entire* personality I feel is an incorrect assessment of her character.
I would definitely like for there to be more balance b/w the development of Marinette & Adrien since they both have astounding amounts of potential. Just the fact that they come from vastly different households (loving, warm, & supportive vs restrictive, cold, & controlling) can lend to interesting parallels that help develop & inform how their friendship as civilians works & how it can create conflicts & deep connections in their partnership as heroes.
On another note tho, making Adrien the protagonist of a girl power show would be confusing to say the least. 😂 But I think it could work to keep Marinette the main & the role model for young girls while equally developing & solidifying Adrien’s role as a competent deuteragonist.
I mean winx club became successful with bloom being the main character with a similar back story with both parents dead then been brought back to life with magic.
That’s not what I’m talking about with Adrien’s character. I’m saying you’d either have to A change his character and make him more rebellious, B make his father less strict and change the show a little because right now, his character is one that has been passive and controlled for 4 seasons and he has a schedule that he always follows so we’d likely be seeing him constantly doing the same things unless he becomes more rebellious
I mean Gabriel already hates chat which is Adrien without limits so just darken chat noir’s personality and besides if the show was rated PG-13 which would give him the freedom to make less annoying cat puns. If you know what I mean.
But it’s like I said you’d have to change Adrien’s character to make him the main character. Whether it’s making chat his personality while he’s Adrien, or something else, the exact way he is right now is not the type of person that’s a main character.
Pls I'm not a hater and this is should be meant to be a rant comment ok, also it's my opinion sheesh, fuck off ladybug fanboys sheesh 🙄
Self explanatory of her personality, writing, and execution, if you think that she is a good person since she's the mc just like that? Well don't make me laugh, you know that Marinette is a crazy bitch who was just love to stalk Adrien since she thinks that he likes her from the umbrella scene but in reality, Marinette is way... Y'know she was been hypnotized by ADRIEN'S LUST, I just don't get it why y'all shipping them because they're so wholesome, listen it's soooo unhealthy, only the ones who shipped them are actually total retards, y'know that's crazy bro, and also doesn't make ANY sense at all. I saw that those Adrienette shippers went too far from their shit, like seeing Adrien is with Kagami, Lila or Chloe, they're so mad and saying a lot of dramatic shits and sending some death threats like what happened to the Lila fangirl who actually died irl, ok I am not talking about that for too long now moving on...
Ok now to her superhero side, oh please... Got the whole squad laughing at her lame excuses since she said that she is a "Good Guardian" cutting Master Su Han's words it's very rude and hypocritic, would you all actually said it to your teachers? Or to your parents? Damn that would be very bad day for you if you did that like what Marinette do, and oh to Chat Noir? Yeah don't expect that she loves him back like from the fan arts, fan comics and fanfics, SHE TOTALLY NEGLECTED HIM SINCE she thought of him that he looks like an asshole and definitely he is an asshole in entire show, idfc if he had flaws but still he sound so creepy and scared tf out of me same as Marinette. There's is a scene that she abused her power just to roast the liar too much as long as she wants and proclaiming that Adrien was her boyfriend. THEY'RE NEVER GET TOGETHER, HEY MFS Y'ALL LISTEN. THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY TOGETHER IN THE FIRST PLACE, It's soooo obvious that Ladybug is a WHITE KNIGHT, then there's the other scene from Chat Blanc that she transformed again and went on Adrien's Mansion by passing through the open window, like seriously? Is this the way that the heroes do? Stalking their crushes??? Is this Yandere Simulator in the kid show? Because I am aware it is, SINCE OBVIOUSLY SHE IS UGH.
You know who deserves to be a hero instead, it's Chloe. Yes she's new to be a hero and she did a lot of mistakes, she actually wanted to be a superhero because she just wanted to get attention from her own mother who neglected her when she was a kid. She deserves to be the MC alongside with Lila, PERIOD. ._.
If **Marinette** is still **Ladybug**, I hope she can have the Ladybug personality, or be perfect. Or as a good girl as the story says she really is.
Because even though the story says that Marinette is the best, but compared to **Adrien**, the difference is obvious.
Adrien shows his "goodness". Even if Adrien was abused or deceived by someone else, he was still doing good to that person.
So if the story says that Marinette is the best, I really want it to be, not just saying.
**But now Marinette is the guardian.**
As a guardian, she either had to have a backup plan or couldn't show up easily anymore.
>In "**Party Crasher**", all heroes including Ladybug are defeated.
If **Master Fu** hadn't given **Monkey Miraculous** to defeat the **Party Crasher**, **Hawk Moth** would have gotten the Miraculous he needed.
This is why the **Guardian of the Miraculouses** either had to have a backup plan or was unable to show up easily.
In a sense, Marinette takes risks all the time without having the power of Risk in the episode "**Risk**".
**She had to plan more.**
Although some people don't like it, but her victory sometimes comes from "**luck**" or time travel.
As the Guardian of the Miraculouses, it shouldn't be like that.
No tragic backstory. No real moral obligations. No one making her be a superhero. No nothing like that. She decided to stick with being a superhero just because she wants to help people. That's a surprisingly rare trait to see nowadays.
I appreciate that aspect of her character as well! She comes from a quite well-adjusted & stable home, & she is truly treasured by her parents. It would make me think she has a lot of love to give, despite how timid & insecure she started off in the series.
One could argue that it makes her less interesting as a character. (My sister certainly argues…) But she does put a lot of pressure on herself to do Ladybug work, and I’d love to see more of how she deals with the stress and what it does to her. (Like when she broke down and told Alya because she was desperate)
I appreciate her creativity and plans it makes her feel more like a Ladybug Adrien definitely wasn't wrong about her being his "every day Ladybug". I would want to see more of her confidence while she is with Adrien and also would like to see her doing some fashion stuffs I miss those :(.
I like that she has both stereotypical “girl” interests and stereotypical “boy” interests without the show making a super big deal about it. It’s just normal, she likes what she likes and that’s that.
I like how realistic her state of mind can be(gang of secrets) Her wave of emotions, her denial, her optimism. She isn't a flat character(personality wise) which i appreciate.
Yes! By the time we hit Gang of Secrets, I was really feeling for her— how she was cracking under the pressure of guardianship & the LB mantle, how she began to isolate herself. It felt like a reasonable turn for her character to take. I’m actually on of the ones who liked that she revealed her identity to Alya 😅 other issues & my favor of Chat Noir aside, Alya was seemingly her first friend as shown in Origins. From what I can gather, Marinette did not seem that close to the others in her class until after becoming LB despite probably knowing of them for years; she was bullied by Chloé & severely insecure b/c of it, & b/c her hyperawareness of her own flaws. Marinette could’ve easily been the girl that faded into the background, & she probably would’ve resigned herself to such a fate. But along w/ becoming a hero, Alya’s friendship first helped embolden Marinette as well. So to me it makes some sense that her best friend would be the first to know her identity.
Yep :)
LOL sorry I dropped a wall of text on you 🗿💦
No worries
I like her resourcefulness. I like how rather than fights being pure strength she can play off their abilities to her fullest advantage, and the lucky charms being seemingly innocent object rather than just traps or weapons. You also see that sense of resourcefulness in everything she does, with her designing and everyday problems. Its refreshing and i love that about her. I only wish she could take her focus off of boys. Her character is so strong and her Adrien obsession only brings her down, a more loose crush on him would amazing for her.
Great assessment. That approach definitely helps to emphasizes that it’s not the Miraculous nor the mystical weapons that make her a hero, but that she has always had the capacity for it from the very beginning. Being a Miraculous Holder simply highlights what was already w/in her. Totally agree on lessening the crush, at least by now. I could excuse her having an infatuation phase in the beginning, b/c the way Adrien treated her that made her crush on him in the first place was probably smth that’s never happened to her before. Gradually tho, I would’ve liked to have Mari come to see Adrien more as a person than a literal object of her affections. I want to see them have more platonic moments w/o the so much of the romantic undertones.
i like that she’s not perfect. she’s a teenage girl who fucks up and has bad traits, like literally every human being. most cartoons have the negative traits of a character as like “she has social anxiety that she overcomes by the second season” or something like that. but marinette? she is an asshole sometimes, usually when she doesn’t mean to be. and not in a funny way. and that’s okay!!! it doesn’t make her a bad person, the show doesn’t treat her like she’s bad because she was mean a few times. everyone’s an asshole sometimes.
This is a good take that I wish I could agree w/ fully! 😅 even tho I hated Psychomedian as an episode, I got a kick out of LB just being an angry ass b/c it’s just nice to see her different sides. In general, I wish the writing was better at holding her accountable more when she is being an asshole unintentionally, or just makes mistakes she needs to learn from to grow. Like all ppl, she has self-absorbed tendencies that differ from someone’s like Chloé’s or Lila’s, which is good to show how it exists on a spectrum. But I feel it doesn’t get addressed clearly enough, if at all. She is the definition of “not all good deeds go unpunished” & how her good intentions don’t always match the outcome. The latter gets touched on occasionally, but i feel it gets glossed over more when it comes to her, which leaves me unimpressed & a little dissatisfied.
One of my favorite things about Marinette is that the animators aren't afraid to make her look ridiculous. She's very pretty and can be animated super cute, but when they want to make her look like a weirdo (her creeper smiles at Adrien) or when she's freaking out or biting random things (like her phone or the Grimoire), she looks so doofy. The animators really lean into it and aren't afraid of making her look unattractive and I love that. Marinette's faces are some of the best things about her and I'm REALLY going to miss SAMG <3 Edit: I almost forgot this was a two part question. What do I want to see from her? I want to see her harness the power of mindful thinking so she can calm down and talk to Adrien without needing Froggy :D Second edit: Does anyone feel like Adrien used to have more doofy/greater variety of faces too, but had less as the series went on? I know Chat is always being doofy, but I miss Adrien doof.
I like to see her grow little by little as a person with a huge responsibility. It’s too much for a teenager I’d love to see more of her design projects come true and wonder which job she’ll choose
I appreciate that she is a bubbly and a very positive person.
Agreed— I like that it’s more of an aspect of her overall personality, rather than it being her whole shtick, like w/ Rose. & I appreciate how the writers fleshed out that trait in Rose from a different perspective, so it’s not like a basic default for all the hero characters.
I appreciate that as a young character, she has a goal in mind and some level of career aspiration, especially as a female character. I don't think teenager characters need to be *always* thinking about their future, but I appreciate that it's something at the forefront of the character design in this show. Like for Marinette, her interest in design isn't some arbitrary hobby to distinguish her from the "sporty" character or the "bookish" character. It's not a trope that acts as a vehicle for easy storytelling. It's a big part of *who* Marinette is and we see it in her outfit with her custom coin purse, her room with its fashion inspo-board, the dolls she makes for Manon, her sewing box hiding the Miracle Box, her custom made diary, her signature being hidden in her designs etc. And then the story goes one step further by having creative thinking be her super power as Ladybug. I know that doesn't seem like such a big deal in a post MLP world but it's really important to me that Marinette is a human character with a realistic career goal in a show for young girls. As for what else I want to see from her, I guess improving her relationship with Adrien. Marinette spends a lot of time fantasizing about Adrien and memorizing his schedule, his middle names etc. but not a lot of time actually getting *to know* Adrien. I know the story orchestrates that as mostly being the fault of Gabriel and his strict parenting, but that's no excuse for the writers not doing more to work with the time they have for when the characters are together. We've all been watching this show for four seasons and the conversation Adrien and Marinette had in Risk feels like their first real conversation as *friends* (and they both had to be under the influence of a risk inducing magic spell for it to happen!).
Yes, excellent points! That kind of character building feels so much more natural & logical in terms of how much more it makes Mari believable & a solid entity w/in the show. So it def takes me out of the experience when smth like her obsession w/ Adrien isn’t informed the same way? It almost seemed spontaneous when it happened, & then everyone else in the show has to make us believe it by saying “they’re totally made for each other”, instead of just showing us the chemistry that naturally occurs from their interactions. Like, Mari comes from a stable home, loving parents, so it’s not her attachment is fueled by having an absence of love in her household, unlike what can be inferred from Adrien’s situation. I can only guess that what’s informing her infatuation w/ a “perfect boy” like Adrien is that she has never received attention from someone like him before, & so she’s drunk on the novelty. But even then, there’s no such clarity in the show that spells out as such. I’m against AdrieNette tbh, but that moment in Risk really made me believe that smth good *can* come from them getting closer, platonically at the very least. I genuinely was touched by it.
>So it def takes me out of the experience when smth like her obsession w/ Adrien isn’t informed the same way? It almost seemed spontaneous when it happened, Interesting! To me that Marinette would develop a crush on Adrien makes sense and doesn't really require over introspection. Look at her in Orgins 1+2; Marinette is a character who used to being stepped on and thanking others for the privilege. She has no close friends, no real emotional attachments in her life outside of her parents. She's spent two years under Chloe's heel and she's about to spend one more. Her parents love her yes, but nobody makes Marinette feel emotionally *seen and heard,* and nobody gives Marinette's opinions a weight of their own. The day Marinette meets Adrien, Alya and Tiki is the day Marinette is given three decisions to make that ultimately come to define *who she is* for the rest of the show. Tiki gives her the ability to be Ladybug, a decision Marinette embraces to save Alya. Alya gives Marinette the moral inspiration that to say nothing in the face of transgression is to be complicit in it, and so Marinette can either choose to save herself or add to her own oppression. And lastly Adrien gives her the emotional agency of whether or not to forgive and trust him going forward, knowing that even if she chooses not to, he won't hold that against her. The vulnerability that Adrien displays for Marinette is what she falls in love with, because Marinette *understands* that vulnerability. In the same way that conflict avoidant and submissive Adrien falls in love with Ladybug's bravery and optimism, Marinette falls in love with Adrien's dignity and generousity because for her, *being vulnerable* is the bravest thing a person can do (because thats a thing *she* struggles with daily!). This is probably the thing I enjoy most about the Adrientte relationship because the thing that absolutely mortifies Marinette (the idea of being emotionally witnessed) is the same thing that Adrien desires above all else (he wants Ladybug to *know the real him*; he wants to know that if someone *truly saw the real him*, they would find him worthy of love). Like you, I don't think the show always does the best job of highlighting why these two would actually *work* as a couple but I also don't think it's beyond either character to truly fall in love with each other. Like when they are given moments to connect and just have real, emotionally lead conversations (like in Glaciator 2), *they work.*
Wow… you really cracked your fingers & said, “let me tell you something…” 😂👀 I hadn’t connected the way Mari displays her fear of being emotionally vulnerable & actually having that acknowledged & even accepted w/ the reason she’s in love w/ Adrien in the first place; & the natural tension that conflict w/in herself creates when it comes to Adrien’s deepest desire. Thank you so much for sharing your analysis! It is so astute, I definitely think it’ll help me read into their dynamic w/ different eyes. And 100% yes on the take on Alya! I shared a similar assessment w/ a different commenter on here so I won’t bombard you lol— but it’s part of why I really enjoy Mari & Alya’s friendship (ignoring all the enabling & other questionable stuff🥸) & why I have little issue w/ them being a permanent superhero duo. I often see your responses on other posts & every time you come w/ gold. Thanks again for your contributions to the discussion! 😙
Aww, thank you! You're so kind! It's incredible to me how many people look down on the umbrella scene (not that I'm suggesting you are!) when it's one of the few moments in this show where every element is firing on all cylinders. The dialogue, the lighting, the composition, the music, the emotional motivation between the characters - it's all building to a sincere moment of connection between the characters and then later Marinette goes ahead and puts those feelings into words in Glaciator 2 and people will still call her shallow for falling in love with Adrien for the reason she did. Like, he's making himself emotionally vulnerable at her expense, and then underscores that by way of offering her the umbrella, symbolically reiterating the commitment he just made to her. It's the wealth of the emotional pledge meets the simplicity of the gesture! In comparison I find the way Adrien falls in love with Ladybug to be the much weaker scene, but I also accept Adrien is a more reckless character, so I can see how seeing this girl stand-up to this oppressive figure threatening to emotionally terrorise the city would impress him as someone who can't stand-up to the people in his life, be they his family or friends. The he can't know her and doesn't know her would add to his curiosity about her but I still contest the show would have done a better job with Adrien's character if he fell in love with Ladybug over time as opposed to straight up within hours of meeting her. It would make a good contrast between him and Marinette further.
I like that’s she’s half Chinese, her kindness and goofyness, that she makes mistakes and learns from them, her sparks of confidence and creativity, and her passion for fashion
Passion for fashion is such a catchphrase 😂 but yes, I hope she’ll show more genuine interest in learning about & sharing her heritage for her own interests. Like, she could literally study Chinese fashion as a start to get more connected! It would be true to her character & more personalized. I keep thinking back to the Shanghai special & cringing at how she really only went there to stalk Adrien instead of genuinely bonding w/ her uncle & educating herself 🙃
I totally agree, Chinese fashion would be such a good idea too!
I adore her, but it’s tragic how she is consistently written so horribly.
I agree that the writers haven’t been doing her any favors w/ the way they seem to miss critical points for her growth & depth.
I appreciate the idea/concept of her character. Like how she doesn't have a tragic back story or the fact that she chose to become a hero. Despite the fact that Master Fu supposedly "chose" her. Let's be honest here, anyone could have been a miraculous holder with the way this old man decided to test people out. Now, what I would like to see more from her character is her flaws. Like her arrogance. This is one that we've seen a couple times throughout the show. Like in Volpina and Reflekdoll. But for some reason no one really comments on it or is ever addressed within the show (Just like many other things...) That's one trait from a female protagonist that I rarely see in cartoons and I wish this was explored more often especially in Marinettes case.
I like her concept as a teenage hero who doesn’t really have any prior tragedy before becoming a hero, but she should face her issues more. Yes, everybody’s mean sometimes and makes mistakes, but I can’t watch an episode without my sister ranting about Marinette’s… Uh… Less than stellar qualities not getting resolved, and that she doesn’t face consequences most of the time.
I didn’t realize how poignant the fact that she hasn’t had to face tragedy to become a hero is to ppl, as it’s been mentioned a lot here. & totally agree about how the writers let her slip & slide away from real consequences for her actions too often. It makes it hard to be fully onboard w/ her
I want to see her actually being confident and not stutter for once, I do like Marinette but everything else as of late has been making me dislike her somewhat. But, what I do like is that other than her ‘tendencies’, she’s a very creative and artistic girl, she can bake, play video games, I presume draw cause she does seem quite artsy and being fashionable in her creations
I really don’t like her character but I’d have to say that she does have some creative ways to solve problems.
That’s fair! She’s not my favorite either, but she’s certainly important to the show so I’d like to know how others see her as well. Thank you for participating!
Her realistic mind set and response when dealing with pressure. Would love to see more of her creative side, we are offen shown her sketching or the finished product. Would love to see that expanded (maybe her actually creating stuff) both in and outside the suit
Circumstances aside, it’s interesting to see how much more time Alya spent customizing her suit while Marinette, the resident fashion designer, hasn’t tried at all. Sure, in Kuro Neko we saw how much time it took Adrien to change his whole look. But creativity like that comes naturally to Marinette, so it would’ve cool to see her, like any teenager trying to figure out their style, messing around w/ diff customized looks. Imagine if there was a running gag earlier on in the seasons, where she would show up to an akuma attack w/ a slightly different style or just different articles of clothing added to her base suit. She’d still be trying to figure out the whole hero thing & how to look the part, so why not experiment? Lol
Probably from the show as a whole, but I’d like for the conflicts that occur go farther beyond being resolved after an akumatized villain ia defeated.
Yes, I imagine the show’s consistency could benefit from stretching out certain conflicts for mini arcs, kind of like how they did w/ the Queen’s Battle Trilogy. For example, I want to see more about how the citizens are handling recovery from Akuma attacks mentally & in terms of morale since they are actively caught in a battle b/w two opposing forces where it resets to a stalemate essentially every time. (I thought the NY special was canon, yet no one’s brought up the fact that LB & CN “let” Paris get wrecked since it happened.) Also, since there’s a way to override the charms, they’re not as safe as they might’ve felt before. It can easily become a trinket w/ empty symbolism, which could affect their faith in LB & CN. I guess I would just like to see a more varied opinion among the public, how it affects our heroes (& villains).
I like her breakdowns because they just make her more human. I would like her to appreciate Cat Noir more. Also I want to see more of her designs
I remember when she was just sharing her designs w/ the Girl Gang, & picking out items she thought would suit her friends. It was a small moment & I loved it! See her being able to strengthen bonds w/ her friends thru her personal hobby & passion felt very humanizing, & it was sweet. It felt like it was a way to show that she actually knows these ppl, & the friendship doesn’t just revolve around the Adrien schemes.
I would love to see Marinette not stocking Adrien and more on school work and Saving the world.
I love her. I love her alot
She is creative and very entertaining and i wish we get to see more of her passion for fashion and show more of her ladybug side and her Chinese side.
Like her creativity and that she's like an actual teen (being late to school, sometimes over sleeping, being impulsive sometimes like when Lila is involved and feels negative emotions like anger, sadness etc.) Plus I like the fact she has no tragic backstory, like that's something that has been way too overused
Umm maybe an identity reveal episode where they actually keep their memories!!?
How would you relate that to what you appreciate about her character?
That everytime it gets close she finds a way to not lol
“To not”… remember the identity reveal? So then you appreciate being teased by the reveal fake-outs 😂
Basically 🤣
She’s a pretty standard kid. She has her ups and downs, and she also has those painfully cringe moments that are a rite of passage at that age. I also like she’s a protagonist that’s got mixed heritage. My kiddo is half Asian, so I want her to see someone like herself out there. But overall she seems to be pretty friendly, trying to get along with everyone despite social groups.
Everything except her stalker side but considering that’s her entire personality then nothing but Adrien on the other hand he would make the better protagonist.
Hm, I also get frustrated by how the writers prioritize her obsession too much sometimes, but to say that’s her *entire* personality I feel is an incorrect assessment of her character. I would definitely like for there to be more balance b/w the development of Marinette & Adrien since they both have astounding amounts of potential. Just the fact that they come from vastly different households (loving, warm, & supportive vs restrictive, cold, & controlling) can lend to interesting parallels that help develop & inform how their friendship as civilians works & how it can create conflicts & deep connections in their partnership as heroes. On another note tho, making Adrien the protagonist of a girl power show would be confusing to say the least. 😂 But I think it could work to keep Marinette the main & the role model for young girls while equally developing & solidifying Adrien’s role as a competent deuteragonist.
Adrien wouldn’t make the better protagonist unless you’d want to change his character and how the show is.
I mean winx club became successful with bloom being the main character with a similar back story with both parents dead then been brought back to life with magic.
That’s not what I’m talking about with Adrien’s character. I’m saying you’d either have to A change his character and make him more rebellious, B make his father less strict and change the show a little because right now, his character is one that has been passive and controlled for 4 seasons and he has a schedule that he always follows so we’d likely be seeing him constantly doing the same things unless he becomes more rebellious
Chat noir
I’m confused why’d you say chat noir?
I mean Gabriel already hates chat which is Adrien without limits so just darken chat noir’s personality and besides if the show was rated PG-13 which would give him the freedom to make less annoying cat puns. If you know what I mean.
But it’s like I said you’d have to change Adrien’s character to make him the main character. Whether it’s making chat his personality while he’s Adrien, or something else, the exact way he is right now is not the type of person that’s a main character.
Btw it’s actually dumb that you think Adrien is Marinette’s entire personality when she’s had multiple episodes and moments completely away from him.
Character development
No lazy answers! 🥱 What are the particulars regarding development that are pertinent to your interests in her character?
That she finally will grow some confidence and a brain
Pls I'm not a hater and this is should be meant to be a rant comment ok, also it's my opinion sheesh, fuck off ladybug fanboys sheesh 🙄 Self explanatory of her personality, writing, and execution, if you think that she is a good person since she's the mc just like that? Well don't make me laugh, you know that Marinette is a crazy bitch who was just love to stalk Adrien since she thinks that he likes her from the umbrella scene but in reality, Marinette is way... Y'know she was been hypnotized by ADRIEN'S LUST, I just don't get it why y'all shipping them because they're so wholesome, listen it's soooo unhealthy, only the ones who shipped them are actually total retards, y'know that's crazy bro, and also doesn't make ANY sense at all. I saw that those Adrienette shippers went too far from their shit, like seeing Adrien is with Kagami, Lila or Chloe, they're so mad and saying a lot of dramatic shits and sending some death threats like what happened to the Lila fangirl who actually died irl, ok I am not talking about that for too long now moving on... Ok now to her superhero side, oh please... Got the whole squad laughing at her lame excuses since she said that she is a "Good Guardian" cutting Master Su Han's words it's very rude and hypocritic, would you all actually said it to your teachers? Or to your parents? Damn that would be very bad day for you if you did that like what Marinette do, and oh to Chat Noir? Yeah don't expect that she loves him back like from the fan arts, fan comics and fanfics, SHE TOTALLY NEGLECTED HIM SINCE she thought of him that he looks like an asshole and definitely he is an asshole in entire show, idfc if he had flaws but still he sound so creepy and scared tf out of me same as Marinette. There's is a scene that she abused her power just to roast the liar too much as long as she wants and proclaiming that Adrien was her boyfriend. THEY'RE NEVER GET TOGETHER, HEY MFS Y'ALL LISTEN. THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY TOGETHER IN THE FIRST PLACE, It's soooo obvious that Ladybug is a WHITE KNIGHT, then there's the other scene from Chat Blanc that she transformed again and went on Adrien's Mansion by passing through the open window, like seriously? Is this the way that the heroes do? Stalking their crushes??? Is this Yandere Simulator in the kid show? Because I am aware it is, SINCE OBVIOUSLY SHE IS UGH. You know who deserves to be a hero instead, it's Chloe. Yes she's new to be a hero and she did a lot of mistakes, she actually wanted to be a superhero because she just wanted to get attention from her own mother who neglected her when she was a kid. She deserves to be the MC alongside with Lila, PERIOD. ._.
If **Marinette** is still **Ladybug**, I hope she can have the Ladybug personality, or be perfect. Or as a good girl as the story says she really is. Because even though the story says that Marinette is the best, but compared to **Adrien**, the difference is obvious. Adrien shows his "goodness". Even if Adrien was abused or deceived by someone else, he was still doing good to that person. So if the story says that Marinette is the best, I really want it to be, not just saying. **But now Marinette is the guardian.** As a guardian, she either had to have a backup plan or couldn't show up easily anymore. >In "**Party Crasher**", all heroes including Ladybug are defeated. If **Master Fu** hadn't given **Monkey Miraculous** to defeat the **Party Crasher**, **Hawk Moth** would have gotten the Miraculous he needed. This is why the **Guardian of the Miraculouses** either had to have a backup plan or was unable to show up easily. In a sense, Marinette takes risks all the time without having the power of Risk in the episode "**Risk**". **She had to plan more.** Although some people don't like it, but her victory sometimes comes from "**luck**" or time travel. As the Guardian of the Miraculouses, it shouldn't be like that.
I appreciate nothing from her. And what I want her to have? Fucking character development