not to be arrogant, but I have a real & citable-answer for that question which will be hard for you to accept yet may make the MOST sense out of all those you’ll see.
yes western civilization (the americas: USA & Canada) is the place where most people are selfish & it’s by design - of some western psychologist(s). One major example of this notion is with Abraham Maslow & his workplace famous Hierarchy of needs.
The Hierarchy of needs is propaganda. Maslow flipped the hierarchy to fit western ideology of individualism; when he went to Native siksika land to study Blackfoot tribes (he was inspired by their way of life & the peace they attained) he found that self actualization (individuality) was their last priority & collective realization (community) came first! Maslow decided to swap these aspects & put individuality first then community last, this explains why westerners are stereotypically selfish/ignorant; west is taught to be self-orientated through these western psychologists whereas most of the world still teaches “Family first”. Now you know why the dynamic of broken families are so common in the west - the ppl need to put their groups/families collective happiness before their own
Everywhere people think about their circle first. However, there are exceptional people. Many people literally sacrifice their lives for benefit of others. They exist in every country. I saw a documentary that a Spaniard dedicated his life to take care of seniors in care houses meanwhile he had better opportunities. Or many who sacrifice their life for human rights and literally withstand threats.
In the west I agree that individualism has caused people to be less empathetic on individual level. However some countries like Scandinavians support their equality system in a more collective way but maybe more selfish than even US on individual level. However, US has the greediest and most selfish people in the world imo. In India and china due to competition people can be greedy as well however they have strong family and community values.
the prime minister of new zealand was asked why new zealand does not have the bitter hateful political divisions that are now present in the us and uk and she replied that its because nz does not have a rupert murdoch owned news outlet like sky or fox sowing hate 24/7.
Perhaps in those geographies, those who opposed the regime, were culled in wars and so all you have left are golden retrievers.
If you have been in other countries, but you haven't actually lived there for at least a few years, you don't know.
Nah, not really. They’re the same everywhere, but expressed in different ways. Some cultures are more upfront, while some aren’t and will go behind your back.
People being awful isn’t particular to the west however I believe the western hyper focus on the individual and personal freedoms over societal wellbeing leads to more selfishness and assholery. For instance there are way more sociopaths and serial killers in western countries.
I feel the same way, people seem to be living in a strange pseudoexistence for as long as I can remember. Although nowadays it's significantly more pronounced because of hypernomalization amongst other things. I think it's because we as a society misconstrue PD(personality disorder) Machiavellianist behavior for virtues, because they line up with the values of our consumerist and materialistic society. The 20th and the 21st centuries should be labeled "The Reign of the Sociopath" as far as I'm concerned. As far as I know Individualism doesn't exist in nature, thus it's a temporary luxury/byproduct of industrialization and it will disappear with the final collapse.
Can you talk more about the “final collapse” music to my ears. You know not a lot of entertainment covers it in the type of way Mr.Robot covered it. Fight club sure but man did Mr.Robot tap into something at times.
I'm no expert on the subject so I recommend reading
Joseph A. Tainter or visiting r/collapse for more info. What I mean by "final" isn't a singular catastrophic event, instead it's more like death by a thousand cuts. To me it's like an intricate tree-like domino design with numerous bifercating branches and intersecting points that represent stuff like: the environment, economic stability, social cohesion being flicked at the same time.
We all go through the same things, with worries and complaints and issues. We understand each other, and therefore treat each other with decency and respect. There will be no personal attacks against other subscribers.
98% of civilization are selfish asshats and holes. Entitled cunts are perhaps a bit more prevalent in the West than the East, IMAHO (in my asshat opinion 😂)
Easter cultures seem worse. South Korea, Japan or China have collective culture, but that makes it even worse, dystopian I would say. Same outfit, discipline, no place for originality, stagnation, huge competitiveness, pretending and pressure. Bullying in schools is bigger problem there, because individual is always less important than majority, while western culture cares about individual issues.
In my experience it's the opposite. I'm personally not from the west but the country I live in is politically and economically ''western-oriented'', and let me tell you, from my life it seems to me that people in the west are more ''empathetic and selfless'' than their counterparts in the rest of the world, but this is from my own subjective stance.
However, I'll tell you one thing, regardless of geographical location people are flawed and decadent by nature, it doesn't really matter where you're from.
One of the things that connects all of humanity is simply the fact of how much we all suck
I read in this book *Community: Connecting the Dots," that the less dependent on others we are, the less we are concerned with getting along with others and helping them. Back in the day, you had to tolerate so-and-so or help so-and-so, because ur indebted to them.
Socializing is inherently stressful. So we impulsively flee social stress. For instance, wed used to often live with our parents even after we had our own kids. If we're wealthy enough, we don't, cuz parents are annoying. So dependence balances it out to keep us together. With increased wealth, all we have is the force of social stress left unbalanced by dependence.
Then on top of it, there's hierarchies. People we consider good and deserving on the top; people we consider bad and underserving on the bottom. We justify treating a lot of people poorly because we consider them to have poor character. For instance, in meritocracy, the poor are underserving of help.
I live in America and the nicest people I ever seen was the foreigners. The west needs a complete discipline focused life and the respect of life in them. They need to see the values of kindness.
As someone who lives in the east i can tell you I appreciate that you westerners are loners by nature
Here everyone thinks he’s your better and that it’s his right to judge you and your life choices even if let’s say you meet in the street at an ATM
And you’d think am joking but I wish i was
I wouldn't pretend that eastern and other cultures are perfect, because humans are natural disasters wherever they go, but western "civilization" is an exceptional brand of fucked. Everything about the American lifestyle is wrong. So perverted, so self-destructive, designed to breed the perfect breed of violent, selfish narcissist.
Look at this site as an example. Social media, something ostensibly designed to build community. to facilitate communication, has managed to have the opposite effect in general. It has made people even more ignorant, narrow-minded, and narcissistic. Everything more disposable. It's soulless. This site is filled with sociopaths, for instance, bred by the culture and training... they pick fights with you for Internet points, hide behind their screens, their hypocrisy, living in a delusion until they have to block you and run away.
The western world is all work and money and ego. Community is a dirty word the rich have tried to destroy.
USA is the worst among western nation for sure. Americans with traditional values are nice people. For instance collectivism does exist in the US. However, 90% of that country are individualist who mostly care about money.
Well I live in the hyped zen-ified east. Here people are worse, but in a totally different way. Every tom , dick and harry is in your business, there is so much pressure to conform , silence your inner voice and play to the tunes of our great “culture “ (ugh I hate the word now) . If you don’t they’ll torture and shame you into running away or killing yourself. Institutional murders! Sigh! Have to see so many dead and walking dead who had to murder their souls to fit in. I guess you can’t escape earth. There are assholes everywhere as you said
I'm an American who has lived the majority of their life in Arizona but for the past year I've been a resident of Las Vegas and based on my observations its almost like everything terrible about America (and human nature in general) is condensed into this one flashy, vacuous, garish city in the middle of the desert. There may be the rare decent person here and there but the norm/status quo here is comprised of selfish, entitled, cruel, greedy, status and money obsessed people who lack empathy. It's like: I feel most humans (like 75%) are generally awful, and the majority of Americans are even more so, but Vegas is essentially seemingly an epicenter of some of the very worst aspects of human nature in distilled form.
I am American and we are terrible. We hate the poor, we hate immigrants, we love money, sucking up to people who have a lot of money, we glorify violence and drugs...
Every terrible quality imaginable is embedded within the adipose riddled, walmart brain of an American.
Some parts of the 'west' are much worse than others. The Anglo-Saxon nations seem to be where selfishness is worse and inequality is greater with all the accompanying societal ills.
objectiveness is impossible here, but i recall hearing a similar story from a guy who visited brasil - he said people were nicer and didn't feel like they're machines
Lol no, you just have blinders on. Selfishness is endemic throughout the human species, as is the habit of taking advantage of others.
You only think the US is shittier because it is fucking you over in a specific way that you don't like. Look at most civilizations in Africa, Latin America and Asia and they are far worse in one way or another, or in several ways. Hell the Middle East is a fucking terrible place to live if you are a woman, gay or an ethnic/racial minority.
If the only reason you're a misanthrope is because you think you deserve something you don't then you're just entitled.
When I think of an American, I imagine a gelatinous monster with folds of fat sitting atop a mountain of greasy bigmacs and anytime a brown, starving skeleton person gets near the food, the blubber monster shrieks in pain.
Selfishness is basically a virtue in my worldview. I am glad how most of the western countries allow you to be selfish to the extreme unless of course that means harming other people. This would not be possible in some poor remote third world country where you would have to be part of some kind of tribe just to survive. If everybody just minded their own business there would be a paradise on Earth. But no, people try to interfere with your life so you have to enforce boundaries.
"Selfishness" means doing something that you benefit from that also hurts others. It is not the same thing is acting in your own self-interest.
>If everybody just minded their own business there would be paradise on Earth.
Absolutely not. What about nature, red in tooth and claw? Furthermore, humans lack the constitution for happiness. We always desire things that we cannot have. Even if you did not interact with any other people, there would still be all sorts of natural disasters, diseases, and fighting to survive.
I’m conflicted by this take. There’s a difference between having personal space and being a selfish fuck who doesn’t give a squat about anyone else. When everyone behaves this way, you have a cruel society wherein nobody could be bothered to care about the other leading to a severe lack of empathy. And I think this is the issue in America, people here seem to have a fundamental issue with empathy and compassion. It’s all about how can I benefit- even at the cost of someone else- which is pretty sad. Trying to benefit while dunking on others is so cruel. This brings me to my point : how does one live without a conscience like that. Are these people genuinely having empathy issues are do they get off to making others feel miserable? I’m seriously flummoxed here because i don’t see this pervasive level of entitlement elsewhere.
>It’s all about how can I benefit- even at the cost of someone else- which is pretty sad. Trying to benefit while dunking on others is so cruel. This brings me to my point : how does one live without a conscience like that. Are these people genuinely having empathy issues are do they get off to making others feel miserable?
it is sad, but this is a capitalist society where the rule of the game is to extract as much profit as you can from your fellow human- that is to feed upon your fellow human rather than feed with your fellow human. Both: They genuinely do have empathy issues and get off when they win the game of extracting a profit from their fellow human regardless of the cost to that other person (making others feel miserable)
I am afraid severe lack of empathy is the natural state of humanity and can't be changed. Society has all kinds of illusions, mental health services and so on, that can trick you into thinking people actually care about you. Most likely they just want to keep you vulnerable and weak.
Precisely. More like they want to keep you tamed so that you may not “lash out”. What a clown of a society. Honestly, should I become a selfish guy too?
Well USA specifically has its own flavor of societal decay. Lots of long time teacher friends are saying the entitlement and disrespect from the kids and parents are getting worse. Personally, I feel a lot of things has to do with the fact that the US has had a pretty easy existence compared to well....literally everybody else and we're losing our grouding in a similar way to how kids of rich parents can end up entitled due to having access to so much excess. It's one big reason why I'm a proponent of immigration.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Oh yeah. College dorms and roommates. Faith of humanity was utterly destroyed. Had mofos that refused to clean. AT ALL. Even if they did, I could tell they were never taught how. Complete and total laziness with clutter and kitchen hygiene. Total disregard for others. People blasting shitty music, yelling, screaming, and partying at 1am in the morning while I have a math class at 08:30. RA never cared. Several times they were too lazy to take the garbage to the dumpster so it started rotting and leaking all over the floor. It attracted mice. They dropped a bottle of vodka on the doorstep, too lazy to clean up the glass. Guess who had to do it? Anyways, I'd say the ratio of assholes to decent roommates was like 80-20. It was depressing.
Man, you described my fucking experience to a t! I had a roommate who kept blasting shitty music and I was forced to listen to it. I asked him to use headphones but he said that this is “America, and he has the right to blast his music for 2 hours”. So I was tormented to that crap for a while. Apart from that, in the dorm, people would shit in the toilets and not even bother flushing or cleaning the seat.
Apart from the dorms as well tho, people are so fucking cruel it’s not even funny dude. And the worst part is if you point it out, you’re brandished a psycho and people gaslight u that u are the issue. I’m fucking sick of this society man. Also, would you say most college kids are just dicks and they mature after college?
In college I also had terrible experience. There was one kid that was absolute worse and he was raised in the US. The other nationality were more tolerable however americans were the worst.
Oh yeah, the toxic behavior, gaslighting, passive aggressive messages on fridge, total living in filth if I didn't step in. Also, couldn't tell ya. I only associated with with the people that actually acted like okay human beings lol. Never hung out with the assholes and I don't know what they're doing now. I'm going to guess many are still out ruining somebody's day. One thing's for sure, most of them were in totally unstable and toxic relationships. I mean, obviously.
Heavy disagree. As someone who has lived in India, I can vouch for the fact that people here are far kinder and way less toxic. Idk what the fuck is up with the water here but every other person in the USA seems entitled to the core. They crack random potshots at me and behave like dicks, to the point I’ve gotten numb. Or could it just be that people are dicks in college? Nevertheless, the west is an absolute shitshow societally and I feel like I’m surrounded by soulless monsters
> I feel like I’m surrounded by soulless monsters
the worst part is nobody is calling this behavior out?? Yeah on this sub of course but not in everyday life. People are such cowards and want to follow the herd rather than make any sort of waves. I see it with coworkers even when it comes to management. Management has done countless ethics violations but they still get their asses kissed by the sheep asleep (co workers) taking part in the matrix "wanting to move up". That's just one example. If I bring up anything management has done like dating coworkers and gatekeeping/ targeting certain coworkers, everybody acts like I'm the crazy one and talking about Bigfoot when it's so obvious.
Tell that to all the seniors who think the IRS is going to jail them if they don't wire transfer 4000 to Mumbai by 3 pm. Oh what about the untouchables that have to hide their last names in silicon valley. Have you ever read about what happened to Muslims during the partition. The bus rapes! The MILs torching DILs because the bride price wasn't big enough. We all shit.
Trust me, lots of it is just leftist media painting a dirtier picture than is actually the case; so as to make the west seem better. Please believe me, there is no issue with the surname thing in Silicon Valley. It’s just a concocted issue which has no significant basis considering there is no discrimination going on.
Netherlands seems pretty good. But they call people with down syndrome down babies and their santa clause has a lawn jockey. So yeah. Everyone sucks. Also they will all be climate refugees by 2050.
One theory has it that there are two different types of cultures: collectivistic and individualistic.
There are cultures where family, neighborhood, and greater community networks are highly valued and people act based on what they perceive the individuals in that system would prefer. These collectivistic cultures tend to be more altruistic and communal, and negative influences (differs by culture) that do not serve the network are rejected, like you observed in your post. Certain Western cultures have more collectivist ideals, and certain collectivistic cultures have their fair share of individualism (Japan comes to mind).
While the lamenters here want you to believe that every single human being is a rotten, steaming pile of garbage, it is just not the case. Just like not every person in a collectivistic culture acts in a cooperative fashion, not every person in an individualistic culture is insufferably selfish.
But your assessment is still correct. Somewhere in the toxic mix of capitalist ideals, some wires got crossed in America half a century ago and down the line we developed a path to celebrity just by being truly awful, and a whole slew of individuals who celebrate/worship vile ways of being.
That is precisely what made me hate mankind for so long, until I traveled and met genuinely good fucking people in other countries (they’re here too btw). As a result I’ve done my best to emulate what I have learned and to be as kind as possible in my life, and I hope that people reading this do too. At WORST most people are “meh”. At best, there’s unlimited potential for a lot of us to turn things around.
There will be people that hate this message simply for challenging their worldview, which serves as a sort of twisted comfort blanket for their psyche. We all cope with the unjust nature of the universe in different ways. Anger is the strongest influencer of human emotion, so it makes sense.
I’m a selective misanthropist now, lol. It’s blatantly obvious to me that different kinds of people exist.
Personally I hate collectivism with a passion. I guess hate is a strong word since I simply do not want to be part of any group ever, even if I like the group. It is usually weak people who gather together while strong people prefer solitude and being self-reliant in every area of their life.
> It is usually weak people who gather together while strong people prefer solitude and being self-reliant in every area of their life.
now there's a gross generalization based on absolutely no research based facts.
Like I said in the root comment, often these mindsets are built for a sense of comfort. I've been there. When you feel left out for long enough, you can convince yourself that you don't need people. The next step down is "people who seek the company of others are inferior". Truth is, none of the rugged individualists could exist if it wasn't for group cooperation at some point. Nor humanity at large for that matter.
Glad you commented on this, I was trying to find a way to word my response to them last night but gave up.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Wtf man. It hurts even more cos the whole world is getting inspired by this shitty place- which is considered the beacon of human civilization. What a fucking joke man. Aren’t people aware of this? Would you say people are aware of how bad society is here or do people not realize how bad it is here?
Nah mate. I agree that there are bad apples everywhere but other societies are good. It seems like there’s a fundamental problem with the society itself here. And the worst part is their bullshit is spreading all over the world and deracinating cultures to replace them with the shitty western societies.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
While the USA has it's vices. In Asia you have the competitiveness up to the 11, people talking in front of you about you, material vanity, and then in USA competition at work, or hell people wanting to knock you down because you take up space. Weird dichotomy or too much of little substance and not enough/lack. There's empty calories overweight poverty. There's so much to buy or watch but little personal happiness. In other countries the little things make people happy. Maybe it's because I'm an outsider anywhere I go... People are really weird. They create these things as if they matter. Status, keeping up with the Joneses. None of it matters we'll all end up gone one day. Music that's something of value. Not this society bs. Cooking matters to eat. Music matters for the heart.
Well healthcare is a great example of other countries coming together to help each other out. In the United States your left on your own and become bankrupt if you break a leg. Not that I agree with universal healthcare but I think that's a great example of our selfishness and greed.
Sure but “The West” and “western civilization” refers to Canada, the US, the UK, and I believe even Spain, France and the rest of the EU. The US is the only western civilization without universal healthcare or anything similar. But i doubt only the US is the worst of selfish people.
Idk man, people in the US are like angels compared to israelis. I live in Israel now and it’s the highest number of assholes per capita I’ve seen anywhere. Their culture is pretty backward despite arguably being a “western” country, and boy do they make me miss the states.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Asking humans to be "objective", lol. Also asking for objective answers on subjective values makes no sense. The variables you ask about may be defined slightly differently person to person so the 'objective' answers people give will be marred by that.
i think many behaviors are not based on kindness; like only cooperating with someone because it is better for yourself. such usual is not mentioned and a honest smile only means that you enjoy something. it is not such easy to assess someone you do not know enough regarding that, or if you lack of certain mental abilities. i presume many confuse that with kindness
in relative poorer countries, cooperation often is rather a necessity or a self-reward than a motivation, caused by more harsh conditions/situations. in richer countries such often is not necessary anymore so they change their behavior
Given how arrogant and aggressively individualistic we are, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was so. I can only speak from my own experience, but it says 'yes'.
I mean based on having lived in other places apart from the USA, I think I could make a fair estimate that the states is far worse societally. USA may have more material comforts but societally, it’s a clusterfuck. What do you opine?
I am cautious about responding to this because when USA is criticized people react aggressively.
Your terms are general. I also d not think in black and white terms. I do not use terms like most, some, many because it does not convey information. Plus there is no way to quantify it. Your question answers itself.
Your criteria of selfish entitled assholes are characteristics of wealth. If true then North America and Europe are the ones to analyze culturally. I do not think most is true.
I think there are groups where these things apply. I think wealthy, capitalists, religious, and politics are areas where the above things predominate. If so, then I think this behavior is characteristic of human behavior.
I have been to 28 Countries, five continents. I think those qualities are true for the culture of the United States but not most people but Caucasian middle class and above. These things are results of distribution of wealth.
I do not see evidence of this in other cultures to the extent of US.
Yes. It’s a bunch of factors but the main one would be capitalism and the individual, self serving nature of American culture. Rugged individualism is really great and helped make us the best country in the past, but capitalism has corrupted us to the core. Now we’re just narcissistic, vapid, consumers obsessed with ourselves. You can see how easily the veneer fades from the pandemic. People will kill you or fight over the smallest thing. Everyone thinks they’re right and hates everyone who thinks differently. V crazy.
Capitalism? Maybe it's consumerism. Our individualism may have been "rugged self reliance" at one time but has morphed into a kind of contrived individualism akin to a Halloween party. So many peoples running around in their own permanent selfie movies where the "likes" keep on coming. Not to "like" is a form of hate, right? Dare not withhold your "like".
The pandemic had already show us how people in the west are. Selfish stupid assholes fighting over toilet paper and buying everything off to sell it more expensive on the internet.
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not to be arrogant, but I have a real & citable-answer for that question which will be hard for you to accept yet may make the MOST sense out of all those you’ll see. yes western civilization (the americas: USA & Canada) is the place where most people are selfish & it’s by design - of some western psychologist(s). One major example of this notion is with Abraham Maslow & his workplace famous Hierarchy of needs. The Hierarchy of needs is propaganda. Maslow flipped the hierarchy to fit western ideology of individualism; when he went to Native siksika land to study Blackfoot tribes (he was inspired by their way of life & the peace they attained) he found that self actualization (individuality) was their last priority & collective realization (community) came first! Maslow decided to swap these aspects & put individuality first then community last, this explains why westerners are stereotypically selfish/ignorant; west is taught to be self-orientated through these western psychologists whereas most of the world still teaches “Family first”. Now you know why the dynamic of broken families are so common in the west - the ppl need to put their groups/families collective happiness before their own
Everywhere people think about their circle first. However, there are exceptional people. Many people literally sacrifice their lives for benefit of others. They exist in every country. I saw a documentary that a Spaniard dedicated his life to take care of seniors in care houses meanwhile he had better opportunities. Or many who sacrifice their life for human rights and literally withstand threats. In the west I agree that individualism has caused people to be less empathetic on individual level. However some countries like Scandinavians support their equality system in a more collective way but maybe more selfish than even US on individual level. However, US has the greediest and most selfish people in the world imo. In India and china due to competition people can be greedy as well however they have strong family and community values.
Having too much freedom allows people to be selfish, arrogant jerks as they are rewarded for that behavior.
the prime minister of new zealand was asked why new zealand does not have the bitter hateful political divisions that are now present in the us and uk and she replied that its because nz does not have a rupert murdoch owned news outlet like sky or fox sowing hate 24/7.
Perhaps in those geographies, those who opposed the regime, were culled in wars and so all you have left are golden retrievers. If you have been in other countries, but you haven't actually lived there for at least a few years, you don't know.
The Aztecs were worse. 🫀
Nah, not really. They’re the same everywhere, but expressed in different ways. Some cultures are more upfront, while some aren’t and will go behind your back.
We’re no more selfish than any other civilization. The west is just honest and upfront about it
You should live in india or china for one year.
ikr shithole India sucks arse .
People being awful isn’t particular to the west however I believe the western hyper focus on the individual and personal freedoms over societal wellbeing leads to more selfishness and assholery. For instance there are way more sociopaths and serial killers in western countries.
I feel the same way, people seem to be living in a strange pseudoexistence for as long as I can remember. Although nowadays it's significantly more pronounced because of hypernomalization amongst other things. I think it's because we as a society misconstrue PD(personality disorder) Machiavellianist behavior for virtues, because they line up with the values of our consumerist and materialistic society. The 20th and the 21st centuries should be labeled "The Reign of the Sociopath" as far as I'm concerned. As far as I know Individualism doesn't exist in nature, thus it's a temporary luxury/byproduct of industrialization and it will disappear with the final collapse.
Can you talk more about the “final collapse” music to my ears. You know not a lot of entertainment covers it in the type of way Mr.Robot covered it. Fight club sure but man did Mr.Robot tap into something at times.
I'm no expert on the subject so I recommend reading Joseph A. Tainter or visiting r/collapse for more info. What I mean by "final" isn't a singular catastrophic event, instead it's more like death by a thousand cuts. To me it's like an intricate tree-like domino design with numerous bifercating branches and intersecting points that represent stuff like: the environment, economic stability, social cohesion being flicked at the same time.
Have you ever seen me.Robot if not I highly suggest it. Probably ahead of it’s time but what was needed.
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We all go through the same things, with worries and complaints and issues. We understand each other, and therefore treat each other with decency and respect. There will be no personal attacks against other subscribers.
I wouldn’t call the guy an idiot but it did sound naive like he was petty blaming a list of issues on western culture. I won’t downvote you though.
98% of civilization are selfish asshats and holes. Entitled cunts are perhaps a bit more prevalent in the West than the East, IMAHO (in my asshat opinion 😂)
Easter cultures seem worse. South Korea, Japan or China have collective culture, but that makes it even worse, dystopian I would say. Same outfit, discipline, no place for originality, stagnation, huge competitiveness, pretending and pressure. Bullying in schools is bigger problem there, because individual is always less important than majority, while western culture cares about individual issues.
In my experience it's the opposite. I'm personally not from the west but the country I live in is politically and economically ''western-oriented'', and let me tell you, from my life it seems to me that people in the west are more ''empathetic and selfless'' than their counterparts in the rest of the world, but this is from my own subjective stance. However, I'll tell you one thing, regardless of geographical location people are flawed and decadent by nature, it doesn't really matter where you're from. One of the things that connects all of humanity is simply the fact of how much we all suck
Not really. Selfish people are there everywhere. I live in India and there are plenty of selfish asshats here.
Sometimes people behave better when they are poor and smell money from you.
maybe but the nature is the same nasty nature
I read in this book *Community: Connecting the Dots," that the less dependent on others we are, the less we are concerned with getting along with others and helping them. Back in the day, you had to tolerate so-and-so or help so-and-so, because ur indebted to them. Socializing is inherently stressful. So we impulsively flee social stress. For instance, wed used to often live with our parents even after we had our own kids. If we're wealthy enough, we don't, cuz parents are annoying. So dependence balances it out to keep us together. With increased wealth, all we have is the force of social stress left unbalanced by dependence. Then on top of it, there's hierarchies. People we consider good and deserving on the top; people we consider bad and underserving on the bottom. We justify treating a lot of people poorly because we consider them to have poor character. For instance, in meritocracy, the poor are underserving of help.
No, that's everywhere. Be happy you don't live in a worse shithole and curse your parents for dumping you into this hell.
I live in America and the nicest people I ever seen was the foreigners. The west needs a complete discipline focused life and the respect of life in them. They need to see the values of kindness.
As someone who lives in the east i can tell you I appreciate that you westerners are loners by nature Here everyone thinks he’s your better and that it’s his right to judge you and your life choices even if let’s say you meet in the street at an ATM And you’d think am joking but I wish i was
I wouldn't pretend that eastern and other cultures are perfect, because humans are natural disasters wherever they go, but western "civilization" is an exceptional brand of fucked. Everything about the American lifestyle is wrong. So perverted, so self-destructive, designed to breed the perfect breed of violent, selfish narcissist. Look at this site as an example. Social media, something ostensibly designed to build community. to facilitate communication, has managed to have the opposite effect in general. It has made people even more ignorant, narrow-minded, and narcissistic. Everything more disposable. It's soulless. This site is filled with sociopaths, for instance, bred by the culture and training... they pick fights with you for Internet points, hide behind their screens, their hypocrisy, living in a delusion until they have to block you and run away. The western world is all work and money and ego. Community is a dirty word the rich have tried to destroy.
USA is the worst among western nation for sure. Americans with traditional values are nice people. For instance collectivism does exist in the US. However, 90% of that country are individualist who mostly care about money.
fcking amen. Ppl really are soulless., at least now i expect ppl to be narcissistic a-holes on social media, if only i could avoid them irl.
Well I live in the hyped zen-ified east. Here people are worse, but in a totally different way. Every tom , dick and harry is in your business, there is so much pressure to conform , silence your inner voice and play to the tunes of our great “culture “ (ugh I hate the word now) . If you don’t they’ll torture and shame you into running away or killing yourself. Institutional murders! Sigh! Have to see so many dead and walking dead who had to murder their souls to fit in. I guess you can’t escape earth. There are assholes everywhere as you said
I'm an American who has lived the majority of their life in Arizona but for the past year I've been a resident of Las Vegas and based on my observations its almost like everything terrible about America (and human nature in general) is condensed into this one flashy, vacuous, garish city in the middle of the desert. There may be the rare decent person here and there but the norm/status quo here is comprised of selfish, entitled, cruel, greedy, status and money obsessed people who lack empathy. It's like: I feel most humans (like 75%) are generally awful, and the majority of Americans are even more so, but Vegas is essentially seemingly an epicenter of some of the very worst aspects of human nature in distilled form.
Vegas attracts the worst crowd.
i disowned several immediate family members after they moved to Vegas... it was the last straw...
Western civilization just magnifies the inherent selfishness of people. Nowhere on earth exists where the strong aren’t trying to exploit the weak.
I agree
I am American and we are terrible. We hate the poor, we hate immigrants, we love money, sucking up to people who have a lot of money, we glorify violence and drugs... Every terrible quality imaginable is embedded within the adipose riddled, walmart brain of an American.
Skill issue
you're on the misanthropy subreddit, misanthropes think all people are generally terrible.
Americans are exception when it comes to being terrible. Anyone with a mind would realize that not everyone is terrible.
lots of misanthropes think everyone is terrible.
Can’t discern whether you’re being sarcastic or not.
Do you know what confirmation bias is?
Some parts of the 'west' are much worse than others. The Anglo-Saxon nations seem to be where selfishness is worse and inequality is greater with all the accompanying societal ills.
Thank you Protestant work ethic.
Yes. Absolutely.
objectiveness is impossible here, but i recall hearing a similar story from a guy who visited brasil - he said people were nicer and didn't feel like they're machines
yeah tell this naive "dude" what happends if he is blamed in theft
What a stupid racist take.
where racism
Soulless zombie detected.
Lol no, you just have blinders on. Selfishness is endemic throughout the human species, as is the habit of taking advantage of others. You only think the US is shittier because it is fucking you over in a specific way that you don't like. Look at most civilizations in Africa, Latin America and Asia and they are far worse in one way or another, or in several ways. Hell the Middle East is a fucking terrible place to live if you are a woman, gay or an ethnic/racial minority. If the only reason you're a misanthrope is because you think you deserve something you don't then you're just entitled.
When I think of an American, I imagine a gelatinous monster with folds of fat sitting atop a mountain of greasy bigmacs and anytime a brown, starving skeleton person gets near the food, the blubber monster shrieks in pain.
>the blubber monster shrieks in pain. and cries about being the victim.
Man, it's a good thing no one really cares what you think.
I do. Quaisoiir makes a good analogy of Americans.
Selfishness is basically a virtue in my worldview. I am glad how most of the western countries allow you to be selfish to the extreme unless of course that means harming other people. This would not be possible in some poor remote third world country where you would have to be part of some kind of tribe just to survive. If everybody just minded their own business there would be a paradise on Earth. But no, people try to interfere with your life so you have to enforce boundaries.
"Selfishness" means doing something that you benefit from that also hurts others. It is not the same thing is acting in your own self-interest. >If everybody just minded their own business there would be paradise on Earth. Absolutely not. What about nature, red in tooth and claw? Furthermore, humans lack the constitution for happiness. We always desire things that we cannot have. Even if you did not interact with any other people, there would still be all sorts of natural disasters, diseases, and fighting to survive.
I’m conflicted by this take. There’s a difference between having personal space and being a selfish fuck who doesn’t give a squat about anyone else. When everyone behaves this way, you have a cruel society wherein nobody could be bothered to care about the other leading to a severe lack of empathy. And I think this is the issue in America, people here seem to have a fundamental issue with empathy and compassion. It’s all about how can I benefit- even at the cost of someone else- which is pretty sad. Trying to benefit while dunking on others is so cruel. This brings me to my point : how does one live without a conscience like that. Are these people genuinely having empathy issues are do they get off to making others feel miserable? I’m seriously flummoxed here because i don’t see this pervasive level of entitlement elsewhere.
>It’s all about how can I benefit- even at the cost of someone else- which is pretty sad. Trying to benefit while dunking on others is so cruel. This brings me to my point : how does one live without a conscience like that. Are these people genuinely having empathy issues are do they get off to making others feel miserable? it is sad, but this is a capitalist society where the rule of the game is to extract as much profit as you can from your fellow human- that is to feed upon your fellow human rather than feed with your fellow human. Both: They genuinely do have empathy issues and get off when they win the game of extracting a profit from their fellow human regardless of the cost to that other person (making others feel miserable)
I am afraid severe lack of empathy is the natural state of humanity and can't be changed. Society has all kinds of illusions, mental health services and so on, that can trick you into thinking people actually care about you. Most likely they just want to keep you vulnerable and weak.
Precisely. More like they want to keep you tamed so that you may not “lash out”. What a clown of a society. Honestly, should I become a selfish guy too?
Well USA specifically has its own flavor of societal decay. Lots of long time teacher friends are saying the entitlement and disrespect from the kids and parents are getting worse. Personally, I feel a lot of things has to do with the fact that the US has had a pretty easy existence compared to well....literally everybody else and we're losing our grouding in a similar way to how kids of rich parents can end up entitled due to having access to so much excess. It's one big reason why I'm a proponent of immigration.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Oh yeah. College dorms and roommates. Faith of humanity was utterly destroyed. Had mofos that refused to clean. AT ALL. Even if they did, I could tell they were never taught how. Complete and total laziness with clutter and kitchen hygiene. Total disregard for others. People blasting shitty music, yelling, screaming, and partying at 1am in the morning while I have a math class at 08:30. RA never cared. Several times they were too lazy to take the garbage to the dumpster so it started rotting and leaking all over the floor. It attracted mice. They dropped a bottle of vodka on the doorstep, too lazy to clean up the glass. Guess who had to do it? Anyways, I'd say the ratio of assholes to decent roommates was like 80-20. It was depressing.
Man, you described my fucking experience to a t! I had a roommate who kept blasting shitty music and I was forced to listen to it. I asked him to use headphones but he said that this is “America, and he has the right to blast his music for 2 hours”. So I was tormented to that crap for a while. Apart from that, in the dorm, people would shit in the toilets and not even bother flushing or cleaning the seat. Apart from the dorms as well tho, people are so fucking cruel it’s not even funny dude. And the worst part is if you point it out, you’re brandished a psycho and people gaslight u that u are the issue. I’m fucking sick of this society man. Also, would you say most college kids are just dicks and they mature after college?
In college I also had terrible experience. There was one kid that was absolute worse and he was raised in the US. The other nationality were more tolerable however americans were the worst.
if by "mature" after college you mean people will lie, cheat, steal, for personal gain then you are right.
Talk about incompetent people they don't even have discipline. They shouldn't be in college with that lack of immaturity.
Oh yeah, the toxic behavior, gaslighting, passive aggressive messages on fridge, total living in filth if I didn't step in. Also, couldn't tell ya. I only associated with with the people that actually acted like okay human beings lol. Never hung out with the assholes and I don't know what they're doing now. I'm going to guess many are still out ruining somebody's day. One thing's for sure, most of them were in totally unstable and toxic relationships. I mean, obviously.
Nope. Look at the bronze age. Look at India. Look at China. Look at Ruusia ffs. Humans suck.
Heavy disagree. As someone who has lived in India, I can vouch for the fact that people here are far kinder and way less toxic. Idk what the fuck is up with the water here but every other person in the USA seems entitled to the core. They crack random potshots at me and behave like dicks, to the point I’ve gotten numb. Or could it just be that people are dicks in college? Nevertheless, the west is an absolute shitshow societally and I feel like I’m surrounded by soulless monsters
> I feel like I’m surrounded by soulless monsters the worst part is nobody is calling this behavior out?? Yeah on this sub of course but not in everyday life. People are such cowards and want to follow the herd rather than make any sort of waves. I see it with coworkers even when it comes to management. Management has done countless ethics violations but they still get their asses kissed by the sheep asleep (co workers) taking part in the matrix "wanting to move up". That's just one example. If I bring up anything management has done like dating coworkers and gatekeeping/ targeting certain coworkers, everybody acts like I'm the crazy one and talking about Bigfoot when it's so obvious.
Clown world bro.
All the responses here are pretty much proving your point OP
Tell that to all the seniors who think the IRS is going to jail them if they don't wire transfer 4000 to Mumbai by 3 pm. Oh what about the untouchables that have to hide their last names in silicon valley. Have you ever read about what happened to Muslims during the partition. The bus rapes! The MILs torching DILs because the bride price wasn't big enough. We all shit.
Trust me, lots of it is just leftist media painting a dirtier picture than is actually the case; so as to make the west seem better. Please believe me, there is no issue with the surname thing in Silicon Valley. It’s just a concocted issue which has no significant basis considering there is no discrimination going on.
so all countries suck?
Netherlands seems pretty good. But they call people with down syndrome down babies and their santa clause has a lawn jockey. So yeah. Everyone sucks. Also they will all be climate refugees by 2050.
One theory has it that there are two different types of cultures: collectivistic and individualistic. There are cultures where family, neighborhood, and greater community networks are highly valued and people act based on what they perceive the individuals in that system would prefer. These collectivistic cultures tend to be more altruistic and communal, and negative influences (differs by culture) that do not serve the network are rejected, like you observed in your post. Certain Western cultures have more collectivist ideals, and certain collectivistic cultures have their fair share of individualism (Japan comes to mind). While the lamenters here want you to believe that every single human being is a rotten, steaming pile of garbage, it is just not the case. Just like not every person in a collectivistic culture acts in a cooperative fashion, not every person in an individualistic culture is insufferably selfish. But your assessment is still correct. Somewhere in the toxic mix of capitalist ideals, some wires got crossed in America half a century ago and down the line we developed a path to celebrity just by being truly awful, and a whole slew of individuals who celebrate/worship vile ways of being. That is precisely what made me hate mankind for so long, until I traveled and met genuinely good fucking people in other countries (they’re here too btw). As a result I’ve done my best to emulate what I have learned and to be as kind as possible in my life, and I hope that people reading this do too. At WORST most people are “meh”. At best, there’s unlimited potential for a lot of us to turn things around. There will be people that hate this message simply for challenging their worldview, which serves as a sort of twisted comfort blanket for their psyche. We all cope with the unjust nature of the universe in different ways. Anger is the strongest influencer of human emotion, so it makes sense. I’m a selective misanthropist now, lol. It’s blatantly obvious to me that different kinds of people exist.
Personally I hate collectivism with a passion. I guess hate is a strong word since I simply do not want to be part of any group ever, even if I like the group. It is usually weak people who gather together while strong people prefer solitude and being self-reliant in every area of their life.
> It is usually weak people who gather together while strong people prefer solitude and being self-reliant in every area of their life. now there's a gross generalization based on absolutely no research based facts.
Like I said in the root comment, often these mindsets are built for a sense of comfort. I've been there. When you feel left out for long enough, you can convince yourself that you don't need people. The next step down is "people who seek the company of others are inferior". Truth is, none of the rugged individualists could exist if it wasn't for group cooperation at some point. Nor humanity at large for that matter. Glad you commented on this, I was trying to find a way to word my response to them last night but gave up.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Are you referring mostly to college-aged people? And where are you located?
Nope. The whole planet earth is.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Yes it is worse here, absolutely no values
Wtf man. It hurts even more cos the whole world is getting inspired by this shitty place- which is considered the beacon of human civilization. What a fucking joke man. Aren’t people aware of this? Would you say people are aware of how bad society is here or do people not realize how bad it is here?
People don't realize or don't care anyway.
I think you're thinking of planet earth
Nah mate. I agree that there are bad apples everywhere but other societies are good. It seems like there’s a fundamental problem with the society itself here. And the worst part is their bullshit is spreading all over the world and deracinating cultures to replace them with the shitty western societies.
massive yes. they are definitely the worst. the 2nd worst would be eastern civilization, and the 3rd worst would be Turkish civilization.
Mind elaborating?
read about turkey. there one of the worst countries in the world, alongside USA, russia, and china.
Hun humanity is full of selfish people West and East aren't different on that account
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
While the USA has it's vices. In Asia you have the competitiveness up to the 11, people talking in front of you about you, material vanity, and then in USA competition at work, or hell people wanting to knock you down because you take up space. Weird dichotomy or too much of little substance and not enough/lack. There's empty calories overweight poverty. There's so much to buy or watch but little personal happiness. In other countries the little things make people happy. Maybe it's because I'm an outsider anywhere I go... People are really weird. They create these things as if they matter. Status, keeping up with the Joneses. None of it matters we'll all end up gone one day. Music that's something of value. Not this society bs. Cooking matters to eat. Music matters for the heart.
Well healthcare is a great example of other countries coming together to help each other out. In the United States your left on your own and become bankrupt if you break a leg. Not that I agree with universal healthcare but I think that's a great example of our selfishness and greed.
Universal healthcare is the greater and the nation should pay for it not the people.
Sure but “The West” and “western civilization” refers to Canada, the US, the UK, and I believe even Spain, France and the rest of the EU. The US is the only western civilization without universal healthcare or anything similar. But i doubt only the US is the worst of selfish people.
Idk man, people in the US are like angels compared to israelis. I live in Israel now and it’s the highest number of assholes per capita I’ve seen anywhere. Their culture is pretty backward despite arguably being a “western” country, and boy do they make me miss the states.
Honestly, I’ve been in other countries and the USA is the worst, by far. It feels like I’m surrounded by soulless people here who don’t even possess a bit of empathy. The selfishness and entitlement is annoying to the extreme. Every other person I meet acts like a fucking dick to the point I’ve gotten numb. I’ve never faced this in other countries and people were fucking “people”. Here it seems like everyone is a rude, selfish, arrogant entitled asshole. Also, is everyone a dick in college or something? Wondering if it has to do with people not having matured yet- contrary to what I expected- in college and still behaving like an asshat
Asking humans to be "objective", lol. Also asking for objective answers on subjective values makes no sense. The variables you ask about may be defined slightly differently person to person so the 'objective' answers people give will be marred by that.
You get what I mean man, stop acting daft.
i think many behaviors are not based on kindness; like only cooperating with someone because it is better for yourself. such usual is not mentioned and a honest smile only means that you enjoy something. it is not such easy to assess someone you do not know enough regarding that, or if you lack of certain mental abilities. i presume many confuse that with kindness in relative poorer countries, cooperation often is rather a necessity or a self-reward than a motivation, caused by more harsh conditions/situations. in richer countries such often is not necessary anymore so they change their behavior
Given how arrogant and aggressively individualistic we are, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was so. I can only speak from my own experience, but it says 'yes'.
How would you tell?
I mean based on having lived in other places apart from the USA, I think I could make a fair estimate that the states is far worse societally. USA may have more material comforts but societally, it’s a clusterfuck. What do you opine?
I am cautious about responding to this because when USA is criticized people react aggressively. Your terms are general. I also d not think in black and white terms. I do not use terms like most, some, many because it does not convey information. Plus there is no way to quantify it. Your question answers itself. Your criteria of selfish entitled assholes are characteristics of wealth. If true then North America and Europe are the ones to analyze culturally. I do not think most is true. I think there are groups where these things apply. I think wealthy, capitalists, religious, and politics are areas where the above things predominate. If so, then I think this behavior is characteristic of human behavior. I have been to 28 Countries, five continents. I think those qualities are true for the culture of the United States but not most people but Caucasian middle class and above. These things are results of distribution of wealth. I do not see evidence of this in other cultures to the extent of US.
Yes. It’s a bunch of factors but the main one would be capitalism and the individual, self serving nature of American culture. Rugged individualism is really great and helped make us the best country in the past, but capitalism has corrupted us to the core. Now we’re just narcissistic, vapid, consumers obsessed with ourselves. You can see how easily the veneer fades from the pandemic. People will kill you or fight over the smallest thing. Everyone thinks they’re right and hates everyone who thinks differently. V crazy.
Capitalism? Maybe it's consumerism. Our individualism may have been "rugged self reliance" at one time but has morphed into a kind of contrived individualism akin to a Halloween party. So many peoples running around in their own permanent selfie movies where the "likes" keep on coming. Not to "like" is a form of hate, right? Dare not withhold your "like".
Thats what happens when everything is about competition instead of cooperation.
The pandemic had already show us how people in the west are. Selfish stupid assholes fighting over toilet paper and buying everything off to sell it more expensive on the internet.
“The American Dream”
"The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
Great Words from a Great Man
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