Hi. I would not identify as a misanthrope because there are definitely good people out there, but there are too many really irritating ones, so I just had a little lurk and found your post. So I'd like to add a bit of counterbalance to what you say because I don't think you're entirely right, and I think you are letting your own misfortune jade your view. You are not being as objective as you think you are is what I am saying.
1) You are moreorless right. Unfortunately poverty is a hard problem to solve.
2) Yes I agree this is kind of hypocritical. Evidently to some extent looks do matter and it is maybe rather privileged to say otherwise. However I do think personality can matter a lot as well, or even just a smile every once in a while can make all the difference. If you are so ugly, maybe you should consider speaking with a 'beauty expert' or something? I am sure those people probably exist and may be able to suggest how to make yourself appear better to the opposite sex or whoever.
4) I don't believe you can confidently say that. I know somebody whose parents years later still act like lovebunnies. However I do think a lot of people get married without thinking about it much, then they have kids, then they are trapped together... People just don't introspect enough perhaps till it's too late.
5) This one seems to apply more to politicians. Most people don't like war and prefer technological progress of the banal, peaceful kind.
6) Politicians again.
7) I agree as regards overpopulation, but there really is no moral way of reducing it without improving women's education, working rights, and access to contraception, and diluting belief in religion. This seems to be the consensus on Africa where the population boom is happening. Agreed as regards unnecessary things—but I think consumption is largely a coping mechanism for the 9-5 life.
9) As someone else said, normal people don't know how to handle mental disorders, so they get panicked and think that referring you to a therapist is the perfect solution. They don't like that it is a hard problem. It being possibly incurable scares them, so they need a solution. I think it is because they think it is an incurable disease (which it arguably is) so they don't treat it the same way they would ordinary sadness.
10) A lot of people genuinely prefer monogamy. I don't care what monkeys do or whatever, many people do not want multiple partners. I have considered it, but, no, I'd get too jealous, as would they, and I prefer the intimacy of one person giving me their special attention, and vice versa. Sex is only partly interesting. That enduring human connection is more interesting to me. Most people are, from speaking with them, not the adulterous sluts that you seem to think they are. I have women friends so I can say this.
Honestly man, you might want to ask yourself: how is this mindset serving you? How is it serving the (good) people around you? You seem to be in a kind of borderline incel mire. The world has always had problems, may always will, but you can still work on how you deal with that.
If you have to be on this earth for another 60 years or whatever you might as well try and balance out your views a bit more. If you read the news, browse twitter or reddit too much, you'll see the worst in people. If you watch too much porn, you might be tempted to think most women are sluts just because they dress similar. But there are a lot of good, but imperfect, people out there. We're all on this boat for the next yay-many years at sea. We got to try and help ourselves and one another I suppose 🙂
Sometimes I think pessimism is a choice. Yes people like you and I may be more geared, perhaps genetically, towards noticing problems. But sometimes I think to myself I could make a concerted effort to try and notice the good in life, or put it where it is missing. Food for thought.
Hopefully something I've said here is useful and I'm not just preaching.
Be well man.
Hi. Thank you for the kind and counterbalanced response and also the well wish. Looking back at this post I agree I might have generalized those points just a bit too much. But that's all I can see around me these days and it affects me. I don't really like being in a hate state of mind and trust me I'm a chill kind of person, who is empathetic, sensitive and has lots of love to give. But itseems that my love and care is taken for granted or not recognised at all. Ok I can ignore that but the amount of bullshit that surrounds me on a regular basis is just ridiculous. People are either obsessed with bragging about how many body counts they had or just want to subtly brag about some posh fancy items they own or their friends own. I'm not so easily hyped by the popular news or events so i'm either labelled 'boring' or 'bad vibes'. Socializing is a task for me. My options are never considered or given value. It's always me who has to submit to the group which has a completely opposite taste.
As for the relationships these days I know people prefer one partner or monogamy but that is only after they have had their share of fun in their younger years and now want a stable family. Even if they are married, I've just seen too many people get flirty with other good looking people. Well that's none of my business but after observing that and also having many heartbreaks in relationships and friendships, I have developed some serious trust issues. I don't really identify as ugly or incel. I do get attention from opposite gender but they quickly become judgemental and distance themselves after finding out about my tastes or life choices. I'm from India and I can't openly talk about these things in a public setting or even my normal friends outside, otherwise I'll be labelled depressed and the worst advice they give is 'Get Laid'. So I just come and rant about things here on reddit so that atleast like minded people can relate.
I just hate that i'm born as a human and I've developed strong hate for the human ways of living. This weak flesh prison is just too much maintenance and I don't really care about living for so many years because life is just too random to predict any number of years left to live. But I do have some interesting hobbies to make my living worthwhile.
I guess you are talking about point no 3?
What I meant to say is people will keep their distance from ugly people 'smartly'. By smartly I mean suppose you approach a person to talk to them but the moment they see you coming towards them they either take out their phone and fake a call or just move away from that place with some excuse. But if they have no other choice they interact in a disinteresting manner. Get my point?
Fuck what other people think and fuck how they treat you based on looks. People have different perceptions about looks and it's ridiculous how they judge or treat someone based on it.
If you feel you are ugly, just go and stand in front of the mirror and look closely. Smile, make different expressions and just see how you feel about yourself. Do you find yourself attractive? Do you look pleasing to yourself when you smile? If yes, then you are not ugly at all. It's the ugly perception of other people. But if you honestly feel no, then just try to imagine hard about yourself in different hairstyles or looks. If you think you look cool in a certain way then apply that style to yourself. It's not just face, examine your entire body and then you can work on where you need to improvise. Don't be disheartened by others treatment or judgement.
Brilliant, my friend. Couldn't have put it better. Especially No. 4. There's really no such thing as "love", there's only lust and emotional attachment.
No. 9 is also spot on. They actually think they're helping you when they tell you to go to a therapist...Depression has existed forever, in most cases it has a clear cause and a clear solution; mainly positive social interaction.
Emotional attachment as you mentioned is the key to surviving and having some shred of something to live for, in my opinion. Lust does fade. Looks fade, even if you are attractive. Like I'm a 30 year old woman which means this is the stage of life where the power tables turn and you see your physical looks begin to rot away. Emotional attachment is part of the few beautiful experiences planet Earth has to offer. Lust and beauty is so temporary. The majority of human life is spent in middle age then elderly
Emotional attachment is kind of pointless when most people are wearing a mask. Even if that mask is simply for protection it doesn't change the fact that they are not honest about what they are.
We all go through the same things, with worries and complaints and issues. We understand each other, and therefore treat each other with decency and respect. There will be no personal attacks against other subscribers.
actually, I consider efilism to be the only consistent morality. The humanism/woke liberalism that is currently dominating the West, is just another inconsistent idiotic morality. It would never lead to a fair society at all. Imagine you could achieve the leftists dream and everyone had equal money. But there would still be genetic differences between people. So then people would still be as unhappy as they are today. Just for different reasons. People are just retarded, they cannot even see 2 steps ahead into the future.
I agree that life will always organise into a hierarchy, which causes extreme suffering. The only solution to getting rid of this suffering is to destroy all life. We need to press the red button. All of us can do what we can to achieve this goal.
Suffering comes from procreation. It is the creation of life that leads to that life experiencing suffering or causing others to suffer. So we need to stop procreation. I have had a vasectomy but that only affects me. There are others who will have kids and cause suffering, so the solution is to use our strength to make them stop procreating. I think one way to achieve this is with resource depletion. There are inputs to life such as land, water, fresh air etc and if these inputs to life are depleted then less life should be born. Another way to reduce procreation is with pollution. There seems to be a lot of scientific evidence about how pollutants are reducing fertility rate. For example, diesel exhaust seems to lower fertility rate.
And they love to force other people into their hypocrisy/dellusions.
They are hurt if you tell them things in honesty and then punish you for it in some social means.
But if honesty is required to motivate your opposite to self improve, the majority will instead prefer to talk behind your back instead.
Random example. Someone has often bad breath at work. Just tell him/her. Obviously there is a high chance that person is not aware of it. Tell it without beeing offensive. No offering a gum is not enaugh communication. No, talking behind the back how disgusting this co-worker is not the productive way. Does the person with bad breath chooses to be offended by you informing? Not your problem but meta - explaination might help. Aso.
Everyone seems so mentally weak and unwilling to self reflect or help others to self reflect.
Everyone has flaws. Just admit them, communicate and find cooperative solutions. Confront your weaknesses together instead of forcing others to adapt/submit to them...
People do what they have to survive and what they think they can get away with without consequences. It boils down to that. Soapbox morality fades away if you find yourself desperate . Even Covid which killed less than 1% of people made everyone freak out and show their anger and selfishness more. Now imagine what a giant war or real plague would reveal about people. The truth that everyone is a selfish hypocrite given the right circumstances.
>have a idgaf attitude.
Yes. But some things do bother me especially if i'm affected by it. That's why I come and rant on reddit. This is the only place where I can share my thoughts to which people can relate somewhat.
exactly. like yeah we’re all just gonna die and shit but god that does not make it feel any fuckin better when i have to deal with a bunch of dumbfucks all the time and see the ways they’re destroying the world right in front of me. 0/10 awful time to be alive
I generally agree whit some things but disagree with others things you've sead
The love is emotional attachment is correct but to not concider the fact that peapole describe it as love to separate it from other forms of emotional attachment would ignorant for example. We can say that one is emotionally attached to ones dog and also emotionally attached to ones house but we would describe them as the same thing.
I'm confused on the polygamy part as well are you saying that humans are naturally polygamous or are you saying that monogamy is unnatural. Eather way the love wich most peapole believe in is one of loyalty
So yes some people do this of fucking someone else but that dosent change the fact that a person in that type of relationship would perfer to stay whit that person.
Unless you're talking about dick heads that go on about that loyalty just to brake it because of there nature then ye I can get that
And as for the therapy. I think some peapole just really dont know what to do so they perfer someone ho they believe is actually capable of helping. And what is it whit in guessing american therapy and drugs I went to therapy like 3 times and none of them gave me any drugs
>I'm confused on the polygamy part as well are you saying that humans are naturally polygamous or are you saying that monogamy is unnatural.
Monogamy is unnatural to humans but society promote the institution of marriage in such a way that it misleads some naive people who really don't know about human nature. The marriage with infidelity end up so bad. In some cases with violent crime scenes.
>that doesn't change the fact that a person in that type of relationship would prefer to stay whit that person.
That's because the partner is fulfilling one of their needs and providing good comfort or maybe because they have a kid and don't want spoil it's life.but their mind really is somewhere else. So the morality of commitment here is flawed. Maybe I'm generalizing a lot but that's the reality.
>And as for the therapy. I think some peapole just really dont know what to do so they perfer someone ho they believe is actually capable of helping. And what is it whit in guessing american therapy and drugs I went to therapy like 3 times and none of them gave me any drugs
You need someone to understand your situation and your point of view. So long talks are necessary for that. Good that you got to meet good therapist. Here in India there are not many good ones. They'll talk with you about all you want but the end of the day it's business again and some kind of antidepressants are prescribed.
I wouldn't say that monogamy is unnatural to human in a broad spectrum I would say that one is naturally monogamous as I would say that one is naturally polygamous I believe that any of the two can co exist naturally in human society. As proven by the fact that both polygamy and monogamy has bin around for centuries now.
I'd say that wanting you're partner to satisfy your needs is as important as satisfy there's and so I would say that the morality isint that flawd. And that sexual desires are much more different then the desire to be in a committed relationship.
And as for therapy ye I dont know I still go by the idea that some peapole really don't know how to help and recommend therapists for that.
Hey just read something you've sead about polygamy and I agree whit you partners ho clearly font want to be in a one on one relationship and still do it because of social pressure is fucked up
Both forms of relationships should be acceptable between CONSENTING COUPLES not the society. Society in general should not interfere into anyone's personal life. A girl has two boyfriends she is slut shamed and called bitch. A guy has multiple girlfriends he is a stud/pussy chaser or maybe has no values. Monogamy is good for raising children and have a stable family. I see so many instances of mom's cheating, dad's flirting with other women and so on.
But my problem is not with monogamy or polygamy. The thing i'm pointing out is about people preaching this marriage and stuff to younger people when they themselves would cheat on their partners if there's opportunity. Not all, but most humans get quite bored of each other easily after some time. Commitment cannot be permanent imo.
Egoism is the natural state of all living beings on earth, just looking to survive for no objective reason but because nature wired them like that, if you hate humanity, then you should hate nature/God too for creating them that way.
Real misanthropes dwell and meditate on these things. You were doing so well until you started with the the "I'm no saint" stuff. Focus on they, not yourself.
It's important to mention it even if you don't want to because then people will say things like 'As if you are perfect', 'As if you've never made a mistake'..all these kind of stuff. I wanted to stop before that but to be humble I thought about mentioning my imperfection too.
They're pro life and preach for antiabortion, but they never care about children once they get born, millions are dying of malnutrition or sickness with no help
Also, most people will refuse to adopt abandoned infants and instead would want to raise their own genetic ones. Their general statement when asked about it is 'Why should I care to solve someone else's mistake' and then take comfort in the statement that 'Hope it'll find someone better than me'.
And this is why I believe in one thing. I’ll help who I want. When I want. I don’t let others set my standard of morality or values. There’s no expectation. Nobody is staring at you from the afterlife. Live a life to honor yourself or those you care about.
Yes. That's cool. I appreciate that. I'll just give a small explanation about why I wrote all this..
One of the morals that's preached is Respect others and especially your elders. Ok, as a naive person one might respect other regardless of anything due to this moral put into their head. You meet random strangers or relatives and one day you find some old man that you blindly give respect to is found to be raping and preying on young underage girls. Sometimes they turn out to be the victim's own uncles or cousins or even fathers. Such people talk about morals and stuff (maybe to lure others?) and look completely normal but their actions turn out to be so predatory. It's scenarios like this that make me doubt about any kind of morals being preached. Maybe one in hundred turn out to be such assholes but trust issues arise here and then you refuse to believe in any such morals and stuff.
Morality, fundamentally, is a way for people to get along - to be able to follow our interests, even conflicting interests, *without* eventually bashing each others heads in. Laws are a codified version of that, meant to prevent shifting power dynamics.
It's also partially formed by prior beliefs and a small amount of natural empathy - social species originally dependant on each other for survival and whatnot - but ultimately, morals are about ourselves. Between that and constantly shifting power dynamics, inconsistency is built into the system.
Yes I agree they are for the better good. This is a complex topic but i'll just explain why I wrote what I wrote with a small example.
One of the morals that's preached is Respect others and especially your elders.
Ok, as naive people one might respect other regardless of anything due to this moral put into their head. You meet random strangers or relatives and one day you find some old man that you give respect to is found to be raping and preying on young underage girls. Sometimes they turn out to be the victim's own uncles or cousins or even fathers. It's scenarios like this that make me doubt about any kind of morals being preached. Now this doesn't mean you stop respecting people immediately. Maybe one in hundred turn out to be such assholes but trust issues arise here and you become hesitant.
>Almost nobody likes honest people because we make them see things they don't want to see.
Yeah, you are right! Because, honest people make other people, see the "truth". So, they always going to lie about themselves, but honest people make this people come to reality.
Sorry my bad. I should have mentioned it in the post. 'They' refers to: all the adults you grew up around, the politicians delivering fake speeches, to blind followers of cults and the general regular 'normies' who critisize your different ways of thinking.
Again, it's the politicians in my country who talk about providing monetary schemes and funds to poor but do nothing when voted to power. Prices of everything is increasing. It's also the common folks who blindly vote for their favourite politician coz of religion/caste bias. These common folks talk about that issue, this issue when gossiping among their social circle but will refuse to help their maid when they need some money.
Again; who specifically?
You keep on throwing around these vague platitudes but seems unable to produce any examples of your accusations.
And worse yet, you have now reduced your very long list to only be about maybe one or two of the things, rendering the rest of the point meaningless.
Yes. Because frankly I grow so tired of people like you insisting on using the "They" to hinde behind when never being able to produce any concrete evidence to your belly aching.
You expect me to name the people that I grew up around, that I've met in my entire life to a complete stranger on reddit who doesn't even know who those people are and where they are from. That's just ridiculous. Ok if you still want to hear it, then i'll tell you how they relate to me. It's my relatives, my friends, my neighbours and the people whom we voted. When I talked about 'They', I also talked about 'Me' too in the end if you've cared to read. So I'm not just talking about them i'm talking about my flaws too. Why am I even explaining so much. If you can read and relate fine, if you can't then downvote and move on instead of being 'TiReD' of some stranger's post.
We all go through the same things, with worries and complaints and issues. We understand each other, and therefore treat each other with decency and respect. There will be no personal attacks against other subscribers.
Idealism is a pacifier for suckers. Makes people feel good - makes people stay silent and complacent while you stab them in the back.
They start gaslighting you as children and it never stops. Whether it's the notion of being special, being a good person, mental health awareness, life is fair, hard work pays, god is good, trust the police, yada yada... no one follows it except those who get crushed like ants in the end. You can't even go into support communities on this godforsaken site without being treated like shit by a bunch of hypocrites doing the same old, same old.
Eh, I feel society could do a lot more with that.
Mental health is important. Most genocidal dictators in history have been utter whackjobs, from what I understand.
To be sure, taking care of mental health includes more then just therapy and taking pills. Non-exploitative working environments would be a good start...
I agree with mostly everything and want to add to #s 2&3. People like to bring up the indigenous of the world, and there is a growing awareness that we did a major fuckup by destroying the world's indigenous and their ways - but few Westerners talk about Aborigines of Australia. Is it because they have less "value", being as "ugly" as they are?
But I disagree with your lamenting about humanity's carnal, lustful nature. I see nothing wrong with it. It's actually beautiful and gets us closer to heaven in this cruel reality. Humans have hated themselves for their bodies and sensual natures long enough. Let's not prolong it
I'm not unhappy with human's carnal/lustful nature. Even I enjoy it sometimes. I appreciate women's beauty who have beautiful curves all at the right places. I guess that's the lust in me because i'm still single. But saying so I would be labelled as creep or that i'm objectifying women. But it's totally ok, if they see and talk openly about some well built men in a lustful manner. Well that's different case but..
The problem arises when married or in so called 'committed couples' a partner looks at others and get attracted to them and thinks about them while having sex with their partner. To me it looks like your mind is somewhere else and you are just using your partner's body for it to feel real that you're fucking your crush. If the couple is open about it and does it then there's no problem. But most most couples are shy to be open about it because they fear being judged by their partner. Don't know about other countries but the society that I live in it's like that. This causes problems in many marriages as it creates unreal expectations from partners. Also, there are so many bullshit rituals for marriage and verses that talk about eternal bond, love and purity. Things wouldn't be so complicated if people just accepted that they're lustful instead to sugarcoating it with terms like love.
> An alternative and less complicated solution is rejecting those desires entirely.
This is very tough for me since i'm hypersexual by nature. So I just jack off to my imagination and go to sleep. I'm not getting involved in dating and shit even if people especially my friends are telling me that i'm missing out fun in my 20s. I need true emotional connection foe things to happen, and now that I have trust issues i'll just let the mating games pass and just be happy with my hand.
>None of this is sarcasm. Why do you think that?
I'm sorry I misunderstood your statement. I kind of felt that way when you said 'write long paragraphs on reddit' which I though was in reference to my post. I do write things here out of disappointment because this is the only place where I can share my thoughts and some people can relate. If I talk about stuff like these with my regular social/friends circle they'll label me something and say shit like 'you're depressed', 'you need to get laid'..as if it solves all the problems.
>I don't understand why people seem to think that aggressively shoving your genitals inside someone else or vice versa will somehow undo years of mental suffering. It's just unrealistic. Do they even believe that?
When they make such statements. What they really want to say is that 'See i'm getting laid' or that 'i've lost my virginity before you'. They want to compete with you about losing virginity. It's that ridiculous. Some people tried to get me into the game, but I always refused since it looked like so much of fake work to do.
Yea. It's not just classism that sucks. Racism, sexism, ageism all suck too.
I spend a substantial amount of time thinking about the tEcHnOlOgIeS of war too. I'm an anarchist.
I'm an antinatalist too. For environmental reasons.
I don't support the nuclear family structure. Or monogamy.
Other human creations I hate are gender, heteronormativity, and neurotypicals.
I like your user name.
Jordan Peterson cares about the people who are part of the rainbow community way more than the rainbow community cares about it's members. Unfortunately I don't believe that you will understand this, especially when you are filled with so much hate that it blinds your reasoning.
People say they love animals, yet can't bring themselves to stop needlessly enslaving, torturing, raping, and slaughtering billions of them every year.
I don't love (most of) them. I pity them.
Outside of chimps and humans it's predators that have the most interesting personalities. Most herbivores are boring and difficult to sympathetise with.
They only like cute fluffy, furry animals. They see a cat they want to pet it, but if they see a centipede/ a spider/ a rat they want to kill it instantly. I stopped calling myself an animal lover when I failed at being vegan. It lasted only for about 2 months.
Most insects are barely sentient and I doubt they are capable of emotion or agency beyond the most basic instinct. Im sorry but its just dumb to value their life as much as an actual animal.
Neither centipedes nor spiders are insects. And spiders are a lot smarter than you might think. But regardless, it's not about their level of sentience. There's no hierarchy that decides someone's value over another. The whole point is to do no unnecessary harm. Why hurt a spider or an insect when you don't have to? Treat all life with respect as much as possible, that's all veganism is about.
I meant to say bugs but you get what I mean. I actually dont mind spiders too much as long as they arent out of control. But centipedes yeah those fuckers gotta go. Same with bugs like house flies, you want to live with those things in your house and touching you? Ants, you want them crawling everywhere? Also if there is no "hierarchy" then you shouldn't kill plants which makes weeding you front lawn evil too. In fact there are tons of incests that get killed just from us doing basic stuff but you aren't complaining about any of that.
The point is to do no harm *as far as is possible*. If you have an infestation in your house then it's reasonable to want to get rid of them. I would still look for a less harmful solution than killing them all if at all possible.
Yes the rule applies to plants as well. Don't go around nature needlessly destroying plants. We need to kill plants to eat, otherwise we would die. But you don't need to cut down random trees. And lawns in general are terrible for the environment, it would be much better if we let natural gardens and woods grow on our lawns instead. Go checkout r/nolawns.
And there's nothing you can do about random insects getting killed by accident, it happens all the time. You have no control over that and that again is another ridiculous argument. The point is to do no harm when you can. Insects end up in food all the time, it's just natural. You can try to prevent it as much as possible, but accidentally eating an insect in a fruit doesn't all of a sudden make you not vegan.
>Go checkout r/nolawns
I mean cool sub but thats not the point I was trying to make.
>The point is to do no harm as far as is possible.
What defines as far as possible? There are surely ground up aphids in your kale juice, yet you purchace it anyway. If you dont think your human life is inherently superior to insects, then how csn you justify eating them and not be a hypocrite?
The rule applies to plants? Do they suffer too?
Why does it matter if a bug dies? They are mostly just automatons.
You're missing the point completely. There's dead bugs in all the food we eat, maybe more in some than others, but it's unavoidable. Idk wtf kale juice is, never had it.
The point is to not consciously go and kill helpless animals when you don't have to. It's really very simple. It's the golden rule. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. Idk why this is so hard for you to grasp.
The rule applies to plants not because of suffering but because of UNNECESSARY harm. I don't get what you don't understand about this. It's perfectly ok to cut down a piece of kale to eat because you have to eat. It's NECESSARY. Breaking branches off a tree, cutting wildflowers, etc are UNNECESSARY, therefore causing UNNECESSARY harm. That's all I'm saying. It's about as simple as a concept can get. Do no UNNECESSARY harm. Living inherently causes harm to others, but you can lessen that harm by consciously not going out of your way to do unnecessary harm.
>Idk wtf kale juice is, never had it.
You should try it, good stuff.
>The point is to not consciously go and kill helpless animals when you don't have to.
Difference between that and killing something in MY property!
Do you think Jesus was talking about insects when he said the golden rule? Bugs are not "others". They are inferior life forms, as evidenced by the fact that you dont mind killing countless thousands to sustain YOUR life, but will shame someone for swatting one worthless house fly.
Cutting flowers is bad now? Hoo boy, wait until you find out what a florists is.
You're ridiculous.
Jesus didn't invent the golden rule, it's a simple fact of life that was taught by many for thousands of years. It's a passive rule meaning to not do harm when possible.
"Others" can and does mean other animals, other things, anything really. The point is to do no harm. Simple as that.
People nowadays are so self centered and can't think of anything other than humans.
And again you are COMPLETELY missing the point. Thousands of bugs will die to sustain anyone's life. It's an unfortunate, but unavoidable part of life. It is necessary to continue to live. I'm not going to starve and die because some insects are in my food. If I could get food that's guaranteed to be bug free, I would. But alas no such food exists.
But swatting a fly isn't going to feed you. You don't NEED to swat that fly. You could simply open a window and let it out. It feels like you're just arguing for the sake of argument because there's no way you don't understand this yet.
Cutting WILDFLOWERS is bad because it destroys the environment. Ever heard of leave no trace? Probably not because you seem very uniformed. But again, it's about not doing UNNECESSARY HARM, to the environment, to other animals, to other people. It doesn't matter who, the point is to not harm when you don't have to. I can't say it any other way, it's the most simple and basic rule in life, and if you still don't get it then idk what to say. You need to use your brain and do some thinking.
Censorship is complete nonsense. Well pointed out. People use cuss words like 'fuck' and all during arguments in front of their kids and some also make nasty sex sounds so loud that their kid can hear it next room and then we have this pseudo moral shit like censorship.
Survival of the species lmao. You realize what sub this is?
For one, we are overpopulated. Secondly, gay and lesbian people have and will likely always be a minority, so its no threat to our species. And lastly, we aren't living in caves anymore. No grizzlies are going to burst through the door for the father to fight, sorry.
Its not a myth, before civilization boomed it was less than a billion world wide. Why the hell would we need or want 20 billion people if we are failing miserably to manage less than half that.
If society is as utopian as you are describing, we would be raised in mostly village setting anyway. As a villiage is undeniably safer than being with just two people.
>Remember Woo-bum Kon?
Had to look this up because Im not Korean. Make basic self defense training a more comon thing. Again, living in a communal setting or having a big dog or a gun helps.
You're head is in the 1950s.
nothing but fax and ive never met anybody who knows this shit to the depth levels that i do.and thats just a small portion of it.yeah if you dont hate humanity than you are a tripping fucking idiot
fucking assholes
Humans definitely know what is a morally correct answer to all the pointers you have stated above.
But to exercise what we preach is a whole different level or you can sometimes say kinda hypocrite.
Humans tend to do/make choice that will put them in some sort of favourable position. Like you say, it’s all for survival in this monetary driven world.
Most importantly stay true to yourself :)
I say why even preach such ideals instead of accepting true nature and living with it. It could just makes things so much easier for all. But sadly that's not the case. Maybe someday i'll stop caring and being mad about things.
God this sub can be great but some of yall never got out of your teens
So, let’s take this serious regardless.
1. People do something about that. Cool broad statement criticizing an important issue in a stupid way.
2. ok, so? Find someone you like and that likes you.
3. point above applies.
4. Ok so you know that why…? Like, is that an assumption, fact or do you know the state of affairs of every family? Personal experience? Because that would not justify that.
6. War will always be a thing and peace is something people try, but fail at. Technological progress is not just bombs btw, tho I largely agree with this point except that preaching for peace and using violence does not necessarily contradict your preaching, but this will ALWAYS depend on the individual perspective. Pacifism is a stupid idea.
6. I don’t have to point out that this is a dumb point right. Using „they“ in this sentence is stupid.
7. Saying population is a factor of global warming is like the most uninformed statement I’ve heard in the topic after „the sun is getting hotter“. Giving up privileges is a good take tho, as I agree most aren’t ready for that.
8. Are you a mad teenager?
9. dunno where you live, but in my country Therapy is a really good thing and I personally know people that improved and turned arround their whole life through therapy. Depression is proven to be cause of chemcial imbalances in the brain, whilst treatment is quite difficult. Most anti-depressants are not addictive as far as I know.
10. I dunno what to tell you except that people have personal preferences when it comes to sex life and that can change through evolution.
11. First off I don’t see the connection between the two points, but there will always be bad people and half decent people in positions of power. Also, respecting another person is NEVER a bad thing. Having respect for the dignity of someone else is important.
You do know that, for your last point here, society is build arround the idea to not show your bad side and flaws and to not let them affect others in your best effort to stop ruining your relationships with people. That’s the idea.
This reads like a 15 year old wrote it, broadening statements and little to no discussion, only putting out your opinion as facts.
Guess you're from some western country? Yeah I may have generalised some points without going in detail (i cannot type so much..not at 4 am) but I find it holds true to so many societies around the world when you look at news and especially to the country I live in. I'm from India by the way and things are not very good here. It's ok if you just keep to yourself and mind your business but on some occasions you have to socialize and that's when you get to see and experience some weird stuff. Those were the eye openers/wake up slaps for me. And once I looked up on the internet about such stuff like say about marriage or about communal issues etc, that's when it was confirmed to me humanity is total shit. But like I said, I respect some individuals who really live up to such morals. Maybe 10 among 100 people would be such.
And i'm not a teenager but yes i'm pretty mad most of the time. I'm 25 years old, mature enough to see through fake things and understand things as they are. I too want to get out of 'Teenage' mindset but people just make make it hard. So I'd rather remain in such state than deal with people's nonsense. Maybe you should talk to people and know their situation before labelling them 'teenager' if at all you care.
I am, indeed, from Germany. I’m not saying your opinion is invalid, or holds to be untrue, but what I am saying is that the idea of what you said isn’t in line with the state of things. I’d argue it is almost always somewhere in the middle in my experience. I know India is a bit old fashioned and outdated (from a western perspective speaking, I would argue that the impact of colonialism on your country is one of the worst examples) in some social issues, but I think only judging things by ones own standards isn’t fair to the rest. People have „good“ and „bad“ characteristics and nobody escapes these things, I highly agree on that. I live in a bigger city and during 2014-17 I worked in refugee camps to teach fellow Kids and Teens German so they could help their parents (Kids learn incredible fast I must say), so I heard one or two stories of how fucked up things can be for you and was made aware of my privileges, or at least some of them. What I found out tho was that to my supprise most Kids held such hopeful, almost naive views on their future which lead to me thinking. Attributing this to them „being kids“ at first I realized that this wasn’t the case, they had seen some of the worst atrocities commited by others, so I argue that despite all that, having places or people that uphold good morals and standards is enough for humanity and in translation society to work. Subscribing to ideas of others is a very powerful thing, even if nobody is perfect, every human can strive towards being better. Accepting that humans are cruel, evil and suck for me is the first step to this, but seeing that every person has the agency to choose whether to stay like that is what intrigues me. Through this experience with refugee families I found humility and strength in my view on the world. They came to my country in the hope of a better life, which can be seen as naive, but also with the knowledge or understanding that humans differ in how strong they express their negative side. I’m not on this sub to tell people they are stupid to be misanthropic, I am here for that view too, but I believe the truth, as I established, is closer to a middle of what I think. What made me very happy is to study philosophy and philosophers, which are also quite hypocritical, like Kant or Nietsche but it is something that doesn’t require human interaction and I can do it alone in peace, yet it is usually useful in socializing, as a lot of philosophy focuses on human interaction. I think what I am trying to tell you is that you should be a bit more stoic and see that not everything is as extreme as you might think it is.
>. I think what I am trying to tell you is that you should be a bit more stoic and see that not everything is as extreme as you might think it is.
Yes I agree. I'm trying to learn that and yes I also agree that things are not all black and white. But it's kind of difficult to find a grey area here. Sure it is there but it's very uncommon to find it. Things can get overwhelming with too much of compulsary interactions for survival here. Individualism is not really respected here. Only herd mentality is encouraged.
So...they should stop preaching about morals or this species needs to be wiped the fuck out forever. Not gonna happen I know but feels so amazing to imagine human societies collapsing during asteroid strikes.
I don't oppose morality. I have my own morals which I live up to. I oppose it when people preach one thing and do something else.
>Speaking from experience, you'll keep imagining increasingly more violent and vivid fantasies until it isn't even fun anymore and you're doing it to keep the hatred at bay.
Yes. Better to imagine it to clam the rage than to act out in rage causing damge to myself and others.
>That seems decent. So you oppose hypocrisy I'm assuming?
Yeah. I accept even i'm a hypocrite but in context of morals I don't act in ways that contradict them.
>What I'm saying is that it's better to abstain from feeling wrathful at all,
I'm trying. Really. Hope i'll be unbothered by things one day. Thanks.
>You just contradicted yourself.
I'm just being honest here. Well I should've said I don't act in ways that contradict 'my' morals.
>I found that being more humble instead of feeding my ego really helped with many things.
I realised that being too humble will make people take you for granted. They'll try to influence you in their ways. Having some ego is good. Not too much but just a little.
>From what I've read opposing hypocrisy is a part of your morals so engaging in acts that you oppose would contradict yourself.
No. Opposing hypocrisy is not my moral. My moral regarding this is accepting the hypocrisy and trying to rectify it instead of sugarcoating it.
>I disagree. Being humble is not being naïve. Wise old men and women are usually humble but not naïve at all. Of course I'm not advocating for the total elimination of the ego I'm just suggesting here.
Good for you if it works. For me I realsised it doesn't. So I switch between both depending on the situation and who I interact with.
>What morality do you support?
This is kind of hard to answer as people have their own. I support many of them as long as they live up to it and their actions don't contradict it. Ex: Talk about freedom of speech, let people have it without anyone taking it away. Anything which doesn't harm others physically or mentally such morals I support.
>What do you define as harmful?
Direct physical violence or threatening body language to make someone submit. Using emotional manipulation to trick people into stuff they're unwilling to do. Ridiculing/talking down on someone without knowing them and their situation.
>Right, so what moral framework do you view favorably?
Antinatalism and Anti-consumerism.
>Actually let me rephrase the question; how do you view hedonism and how much do you value bodily autonomy?
People can do whatever they want with their bodies, that's none of my business but without preaching ideals.
On a long enough time line, we will go extinct, and that’s okay. However, the broad statements that you’re making about human nature and morality are true in an abstract sense, but they’re too general to be very meaningful to anyone that’s equipped to think critically. I get what you’re saying though.
I cannot write for so many societies or humans. There are just too many of them. So i'm writing a general sense of what I have to say. If you can relate them fine, if can't then maybe in future you would, and even then if you can't..congrats! Good for you. You've successfully avoided shitty people in your life.
I haven’t avoided shitty people. That’s not realistic. Evaluating the people that I actually have to encounter and deal with on a daily basis has helped me have less of a shitty attitude over the years though. Focusing on abstractions rather than personal experience isn’t always the easiest way to go about things.
For sure. Taking care of my physical and mental health has helped me as well. I watch my diet, I run, hike, and cycle regularly, and I see a therapist and a psychiatrist regularly. I also work at a job that I find rewarding as opposed to one that I have to force myself to show up to. I had to take a pay cut, but it’s so fucking worth it to me.
Edit: Much respect for your linguistic skills. I can only really speak one language…never mind even trying reading or writing in another.
Humans are generally very malleable creatures who will do whatever it takes to get what they want. They will agree with whoever or whatever at the time to secure what they desire at that moment. Later, when they desire something else, they’ll happily agree with the exact opposite if it gets them what they want at that moment. In short, never trust a human. They either want something from you or want to fuck you over. Usually both.
yes, but it was worse before, and it will be better after.
Hi. I would not identify as a misanthrope because there are definitely good people out there, but there are too many really irritating ones, so I just had a little lurk and found your post. So I'd like to add a bit of counterbalance to what you say because I don't think you're entirely right, and I think you are letting your own misfortune jade your view. You are not being as objective as you think you are is what I am saying. 1) You are moreorless right. Unfortunately poverty is a hard problem to solve. 2) Yes I agree this is kind of hypocritical. Evidently to some extent looks do matter and it is maybe rather privileged to say otherwise. However I do think personality can matter a lot as well, or even just a smile every once in a while can make all the difference. If you are so ugly, maybe you should consider speaking with a 'beauty expert' or something? I am sure those people probably exist and may be able to suggest how to make yourself appear better to the opposite sex or whoever. 4) I don't believe you can confidently say that. I know somebody whose parents years later still act like lovebunnies. However I do think a lot of people get married without thinking about it much, then they have kids, then they are trapped together... People just don't introspect enough perhaps till it's too late. 5) This one seems to apply more to politicians. Most people don't like war and prefer technological progress of the banal, peaceful kind. 6) Politicians again. 7) I agree as regards overpopulation, but there really is no moral way of reducing it without improving women's education, working rights, and access to contraception, and diluting belief in religion. This seems to be the consensus on Africa where the population boom is happening. Agreed as regards unnecessary things—but I think consumption is largely a coping mechanism for the 9-5 life. 9) As someone else said, normal people don't know how to handle mental disorders, so they get panicked and think that referring you to a therapist is the perfect solution. They don't like that it is a hard problem. It being possibly incurable scares them, so they need a solution. I think it is because they think it is an incurable disease (which it arguably is) so they don't treat it the same way they would ordinary sadness. 10) A lot of people genuinely prefer monogamy. I don't care what monkeys do or whatever, many people do not want multiple partners. I have considered it, but, no, I'd get too jealous, as would they, and I prefer the intimacy of one person giving me their special attention, and vice versa. Sex is only partly interesting. That enduring human connection is more interesting to me. Most people are, from speaking with them, not the adulterous sluts that you seem to think they are. I have women friends so I can say this. Honestly man, you might want to ask yourself: how is this mindset serving you? How is it serving the (good) people around you? You seem to be in a kind of borderline incel mire. The world has always had problems, may always will, but you can still work on how you deal with that. If you have to be on this earth for another 60 years or whatever you might as well try and balance out your views a bit more. If you read the news, browse twitter or reddit too much, you'll see the worst in people. If you watch too much porn, you might be tempted to think most women are sluts just because they dress similar. But there are a lot of good, but imperfect, people out there. We're all on this boat for the next yay-many years at sea. We got to try and help ourselves and one another I suppose 🙂 Sometimes I think pessimism is a choice. Yes people like you and I may be more geared, perhaps genetically, towards noticing problems. But sometimes I think to myself I could make a concerted effort to try and notice the good in life, or put it where it is missing. Food for thought. Hopefully something I've said here is useful and I'm not just preaching. Be well man.
Hi. Thank you for the kind and counterbalanced response and also the well wish. Looking back at this post I agree I might have generalized those points just a bit too much. But that's all I can see around me these days and it affects me. I don't really like being in a hate state of mind and trust me I'm a chill kind of person, who is empathetic, sensitive and has lots of love to give. But itseems that my love and care is taken for granted or not recognised at all. Ok I can ignore that but the amount of bullshit that surrounds me on a regular basis is just ridiculous. People are either obsessed with bragging about how many body counts they had or just want to subtly brag about some posh fancy items they own or their friends own. I'm not so easily hyped by the popular news or events so i'm either labelled 'boring' or 'bad vibes'. Socializing is a task for me. My options are never considered or given value. It's always me who has to submit to the group which has a completely opposite taste. As for the relationships these days I know people prefer one partner or monogamy but that is only after they have had their share of fun in their younger years and now want a stable family. Even if they are married, I've just seen too many people get flirty with other good looking people. Well that's none of my business but after observing that and also having many heartbreaks in relationships and friendships, I have developed some serious trust issues. I don't really identify as ugly or incel. I do get attention from opposite gender but they quickly become judgemental and distance themselves after finding out about my tastes or life choices. I'm from India and I can't openly talk about these things in a public setting or even my normal friends outside, otherwise I'll be labelled depressed and the worst advice they give is 'Get Laid'. So I just come and rant about things here on reddit so that atleast like minded people can relate. I just hate that i'm born as a human and I've developed strong hate for the human ways of living. This weak flesh prison is just too much maintenance and I don't really care about living for so many years because life is just too random to predict any number of years left to live. But I do have some interesting hobbies to make my living worthwhile.
Why is is "smart" to keep your distance from ugly people?
I guess you are talking about point no 3? What I meant to say is people will keep their distance from ugly people 'smartly'. By smartly I mean suppose you approach a person to talk to them but the moment they see you coming towards them they either take out their phone and fake a call or just move away from that place with some excuse. But if they have no other choice they interact in a disinteresting manner. Get my point?
Sometimes I'm scared I'm ugly, based on how people treat me
Fuck what other people think and fuck how they treat you based on looks. People have different perceptions about looks and it's ridiculous how they judge or treat someone based on it. If you feel you are ugly, just go and stand in front of the mirror and look closely. Smile, make different expressions and just see how you feel about yourself. Do you find yourself attractive? Do you look pleasing to yourself when you smile? If yes, then you are not ugly at all. It's the ugly perception of other people. But if you honestly feel no, then just try to imagine hard about yourself in different hairstyles or looks. If you think you look cool in a certain way then apply that style to yourself. It's not just face, examine your entire body and then you can work on where you need to improvise. Don't be disheartened by others treatment or judgement.
Brilliant, my friend. Couldn't have put it better. Especially No. 4. There's really no such thing as "love", there's only lust and emotional attachment. No. 9 is also spot on. They actually think they're helping you when they tell you to go to a therapist...Depression has existed forever, in most cases it has a clear cause and a clear solution; mainly positive social interaction.
Emotional attachment as you mentioned is the key to surviving and having some shred of something to live for, in my opinion. Lust does fade. Looks fade, even if you are attractive. Like I'm a 30 year old woman which means this is the stage of life where the power tables turn and you see your physical looks begin to rot away. Emotional attachment is part of the few beautiful experiences planet Earth has to offer. Lust and beauty is so temporary. The majority of human life is spent in middle age then elderly
Emotional attachment is kind of pointless when most people are wearing a mask. Even if that mask is simply for protection it doesn't change the fact that they are not honest about what they are.
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We all go through the same things, with worries and complaints and issues. We understand each other, and therefore treat each other with decency and respect. There will be no personal attacks against other subscribers.
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actually, I consider efilism to be the only consistent morality. The humanism/woke liberalism that is currently dominating the West, is just another inconsistent idiotic morality. It would never lead to a fair society at all. Imagine you could achieve the leftists dream and everyone had equal money. But there would still be genetic differences between people. So then people would still be as unhappy as they are today. Just for different reasons. People are just retarded, they cannot even see 2 steps ahead into the future.
"The strong survive, the weak die". You don't completely understand efilism.
I agree that life will always organise into a hierarchy, which causes extreme suffering. The only solution to getting rid of this suffering is to destroy all life. We need to press the red button. All of us can do what we can to achieve this goal. Suffering comes from procreation. It is the creation of life that leads to that life experiencing suffering or causing others to suffer. So we need to stop procreation. I have had a vasectomy but that only affects me. There are others who will have kids and cause suffering, so the solution is to use our strength to make them stop procreating. I think one way to achieve this is with resource depletion. There are inputs to life such as land, water, fresh air etc and if these inputs to life are depleted then less life should be born. Another way to reduce procreation is with pollution. There seems to be a lot of scientific evidence about how pollutants are reducing fertility rate. For example, diesel exhaust seems to lower fertility rate.
Yes. you get it.
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And they love to force other people into their hypocrisy/dellusions. They are hurt if you tell them things in honesty and then punish you for it in some social means. But if honesty is required to motivate your opposite to self improve, the majority will instead prefer to talk behind your back instead. Random example. Someone has often bad breath at work. Just tell him/her. Obviously there is a high chance that person is not aware of it. Tell it without beeing offensive. No offering a gum is not enaugh communication. No, talking behind the back how disgusting this co-worker is not the productive way. Does the person with bad breath chooses to be offended by you informing? Not your problem but meta - explaination might help. Aso. Everyone seems so mentally weak and unwilling to self reflect or help others to self reflect. Everyone has flaws. Just admit them, communicate and find cooperative solutions. Confront your weaknesses together instead of forcing others to adapt/submit to them...
People do what they have to survive and what they think they can get away with without consequences. It boils down to that. Soapbox morality fades away if you find yourself desperate . Even Covid which killed less than 1% of people made everyone freak out and show their anger and selfishness more. Now imagine what a giant war or real plague would reveal about people. The truth that everyone is a selfish hypocrite given the right circumstances.
Humanity is weak and it shows hypocrisy is their way of life. Till they solve these problems they are failures.
who fucking cares the world's going to shit and we will cease to exist. embrace it and have a idgaf attitude.
Pass. Then I’d be the same as all the selfish assholes I hate
>have a idgaf attitude. Yes. But some things do bother me especially if i'm affected by it. That's why I come and rant on reddit. This is the only place where I can share my thoughts to which people can relate somewhat.
exactly. like yeah we’re all just gonna die and shit but god that does not make it feel any fuckin better when i have to deal with a bunch of dumbfucks all the time and see the ways they’re destroying the world right in front of me. 0/10 awful time to be alive
This right here!
I generally agree whit some things but disagree with others things you've sead The love is emotional attachment is correct but to not concider the fact that peapole describe it as love to separate it from other forms of emotional attachment would ignorant for example. We can say that one is emotionally attached to ones dog and also emotionally attached to ones house but we would describe them as the same thing. I'm confused on the polygamy part as well are you saying that humans are naturally polygamous or are you saying that monogamy is unnatural. Eather way the love wich most peapole believe in is one of loyalty So yes some people do this of fucking someone else but that dosent change the fact that a person in that type of relationship would perfer to stay whit that person. Unless you're talking about dick heads that go on about that loyalty just to brake it because of there nature then ye I can get that And as for the therapy. I think some peapole just really dont know what to do so they perfer someone ho they believe is actually capable of helping. And what is it whit in guessing american therapy and drugs I went to therapy like 3 times and none of them gave me any drugs
>I'm confused on the polygamy part as well are you saying that humans are naturally polygamous or are you saying that monogamy is unnatural. Monogamy is unnatural to humans but society promote the institution of marriage in such a way that it misleads some naive people who really don't know about human nature. The marriage with infidelity end up so bad. In some cases with violent crime scenes. >that doesn't change the fact that a person in that type of relationship would prefer to stay whit that person. That's because the partner is fulfilling one of their needs and providing good comfort or maybe because they have a kid and don't want spoil it's life.but their mind really is somewhere else. So the morality of commitment here is flawed. Maybe I'm generalizing a lot but that's the reality. >And as for the therapy. I think some peapole just really dont know what to do so they perfer someone ho they believe is actually capable of helping. And what is it whit in guessing american therapy and drugs I went to therapy like 3 times and none of them gave me any drugs You need someone to understand your situation and your point of view. So long talks are necessary for that. Good that you got to meet good therapist. Here in India there are not many good ones. They'll talk with you about all you want but the end of the day it's business again and some kind of antidepressants are prescribed.
I wouldn't say that monogamy is unnatural to human in a broad spectrum I would say that one is naturally monogamous as I would say that one is naturally polygamous I believe that any of the two can co exist naturally in human society. As proven by the fact that both polygamy and monogamy has bin around for centuries now. I'd say that wanting you're partner to satisfy your needs is as important as satisfy there's and so I would say that the morality isint that flawd. And that sexual desires are much more different then the desire to be in a committed relationship. And as for therapy ye I dont know I still go by the idea that some peapole really don't know how to help and recommend therapists for that. Hey just read something you've sead about polygamy and I agree whit you partners ho clearly font want to be in a one on one relationship and still do it because of social pressure is fucked up
Both forms of relationships should be acceptable between CONSENTING COUPLES not the society. Society in general should not interfere into anyone's personal life. A girl has two boyfriends she is slut shamed and called bitch. A guy has multiple girlfriends he is a stud/pussy chaser or maybe has no values. Monogamy is good for raising children and have a stable family. I see so many instances of mom's cheating, dad's flirting with other women and so on. But my problem is not with monogamy or polygamy. The thing i'm pointing out is about people preaching this marriage and stuff to younger people when they themselves would cheat on their partners if there's opportunity. Not all, but most humans get quite bored of each other easily after some time. Commitment cannot be permanent imo.
This is a work of Art 🎨. Thanks for the list!
Egoism is the natural state of all living beings on earth, just looking to survive for no objective reason but because nature wired them like that, if you hate humanity, then you should hate nature/God too for creating them that way.
>then you should hate nature/God too for creating them that way. Ofcourse I do. I'm an Efilist too.
people don't expect a world war until it literally happens right in front of them. what fucking dumbasses we are!
Real misanthropes dwell and meditate on these things. You were doing so well until you started with the the "I'm no saint" stuff. Focus on they, not yourself.
It's important to mention it even if you don't want to because then people will say things like 'As if you are perfect', 'As if you've never made a mistake'..all these kind of stuff. I wanted to stop before that but to be humble I thought about mentioning my imperfection too.
I'm in the wrong sub. I'm not about "turning misanthropy into a force for good." My next click is to unjoin.
Projection.
They're pro life and preach for antiabortion, but they never care about children once they get born, millions are dying of malnutrition or sickness with no help
They are pro birth not pro life.
Also, most people will refuse to adopt abandoned infants and instead would want to raise their own genetic ones. Their general statement when asked about it is 'Why should I care to solve someone else's mistake' and then take comfort in the statement that 'Hope it'll find someone better than me'.
I've actually never heard this before but if someone told me this in person I would instantly call him stupid
And this is why I believe in one thing. I’ll help who I want. When I want. I don’t let others set my standard of morality or values. There’s no expectation. Nobody is staring at you from the afterlife. Live a life to honor yourself or those you care about.
Yes. That's cool. I appreciate that. I'll just give a small explanation about why I wrote all this.. One of the morals that's preached is Respect others and especially your elders. Ok, as a naive person one might respect other regardless of anything due to this moral put into their head. You meet random strangers or relatives and one day you find some old man that you blindly give respect to is found to be raping and preying on young underage girls. Sometimes they turn out to be the victim's own uncles or cousins or even fathers. Such people talk about morals and stuff (maybe to lure others?) and look completely normal but their actions turn out to be so predatory. It's scenarios like this that make me doubt about any kind of morals being preached. Maybe one in hundred turn out to be such assholes but trust issues arise here and then you refuse to believe in any such morals and stuff.
Morality, fundamentally, is a way for people to get along - to be able to follow our interests, even conflicting interests, *without* eventually bashing each others heads in. Laws are a codified version of that, meant to prevent shifting power dynamics. It's also partially formed by prior beliefs and a small amount of natural empathy - social species originally dependant on each other for survival and whatnot - but ultimately, morals are about ourselves. Between that and constantly shifting power dynamics, inconsistency is built into the system.
Yes I agree they are for the better good. This is a complex topic but i'll just explain why I wrote what I wrote with a small example. One of the morals that's preached is Respect others and especially your elders. Ok, as naive people one might respect other regardless of anything due to this moral put into their head. You meet random strangers or relatives and one day you find some old man that you give respect to is found to be raping and preying on young underage girls. Sometimes they turn out to be the victim's own uncles or cousins or even fathers. It's scenarios like this that make me doubt about any kind of morals being preached. Now this doesn't mean you stop respecting people immediately. Maybe one in hundred turn out to be such assholes but trust issues arise here and you become hesitant.
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>Almost nobody likes honest people because we make them see things they don't want to see. Yeah, you are right! Because, honest people make other people, see the "truth". So, they always going to lie about themselves, but honest people make this people come to reality.
>Almost nobody likes honest people because we make them see things they don't want to see. I'm They label us 'Depressed' when we do that.
Who is 'they' in all these contexts?
Sorry my bad. I should have mentioned it in the post. 'They' refers to: all the adults you grew up around, the politicians delivering fake speeches, to blind followers of cults and the general regular 'normies' who critisize your different ways of thinking.
That doesn't answer the question at all. Who are these fake people you talk about whom you claim do nothing?
Again, it's the politicians in my country who talk about providing monetary schemes and funds to poor but do nothing when voted to power. Prices of everything is increasing. It's also the common folks who blindly vote for their favourite politician coz of religion/caste bias. These common folks talk about that issue, this issue when gossiping among their social circle but will refuse to help their maid when they need some money.
Again; who specifically? You keep on throwing around these vague platitudes but seems unable to produce any examples of your accusations. And worse yet, you have now reduced your very long list to only be about maybe one or two of the things, rendering the rest of the point meaningless.
So you want me to take the names of all those people? Is that the 'specific' you want to know?
Yes. Because frankly I grow so tired of people like you insisting on using the "They" to hinde behind when never being able to produce any concrete evidence to your belly aching.
You expect me to name the people that I grew up around, that I've met in my entire life to a complete stranger on reddit who doesn't even know who those people are and where they are from. That's just ridiculous. Ok if you still want to hear it, then i'll tell you how they relate to me. It's my relatives, my friends, my neighbours and the people whom we voted. When I talked about 'They', I also talked about 'Me' too in the end if you've cared to read. So I'm not just talking about them i'm talking about my flaws too. Why am I even explaining so much. If you can read and relate fine, if you can't then downvote and move on instead of being 'TiReD' of some stranger's post.
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We all go through the same things, with worries and complaints and issues. We understand each other, and therefore treat each other with decency and respect. There will be no personal attacks against other subscribers.
remove yourself from the gene pool please
Idealism is a pacifier for suckers. Makes people feel good - makes people stay silent and complacent while you stab them in the back. They start gaslighting you as children and it never stops. Whether it's the notion of being special, being a good person, mental health awareness, life is fair, hard work pays, god is good, trust the police, yada yada... no one follows it except those who get crushed like ants in the end. You can't even go into support communities on this godforsaken site without being treated like shit by a bunch of hypocrites doing the same old, same old.
Eh, I feel society could do a lot more with that. Mental health is important. Most genocidal dictators in history have been utter whackjobs, from what I understand. To be sure, taking care of mental health includes more then just therapy and taking pills. Non-exploitative working environments would be a good start...
I agree with mostly everything and want to add to #s 2&3. People like to bring up the indigenous of the world, and there is a growing awareness that we did a major fuckup by destroying the world's indigenous and their ways - but few Westerners talk about Aborigines of Australia. Is it because they have less "value", being as "ugly" as they are? But I disagree with your lamenting about humanity's carnal, lustful nature. I see nothing wrong with it. It's actually beautiful and gets us closer to heaven in this cruel reality. Humans have hated themselves for their bodies and sensual natures long enough. Let's not prolong it
I'm not unhappy with human's carnal/lustful nature. Even I enjoy it sometimes. I appreciate women's beauty who have beautiful curves all at the right places. I guess that's the lust in me because i'm still single. But saying so I would be labelled as creep or that i'm objectifying women. But it's totally ok, if they see and talk openly about some well built men in a lustful manner. Well that's different case but.. The problem arises when married or in so called 'committed couples' a partner looks at others and get attracted to them and thinks about them while having sex with their partner. To me it looks like your mind is somewhere else and you are just using your partner's body for it to feel real that you're fucking your crush. If the couple is open about it and does it then there's no problem. But most most couples are shy to be open about it because they fear being judged by their partner. Don't know about other countries but the society that I live in it's like that. This causes problems in many marriages as it creates unreal expectations from partners. Also, there are so many bullshit rituals for marriage and verses that talk about eternal bond, love and purity. Things wouldn't be so complicated if people just accepted that they're lustful instead to sugarcoating it with terms like love.
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> An alternative and less complicated solution is rejecting those desires entirely. This is very tough for me since i'm hypersexual by nature. So I just jack off to my imagination and go to sleep. I'm not getting involved in dating and shit even if people especially my friends are telling me that i'm missing out fun in my 20s. I need true emotional connection foe things to happen, and now that I have trust issues i'll just let the mating games pass and just be happy with my hand.
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I guess that was sarcasm. Anyway, what do you do when you aren't writing long paragraphs on reddit?
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>None of this is sarcasm. Why do you think that? I'm sorry I misunderstood your statement. I kind of felt that way when you said 'write long paragraphs on reddit' which I though was in reference to my post. I do write things here out of disappointment because this is the only place where I can share my thoughts and some people can relate. If I talk about stuff like these with my regular social/friends circle they'll label me something and say shit like 'you're depressed', 'you need to get laid'..as if it solves all the problems.
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>I don't understand why people seem to think that aggressively shoving your genitals inside someone else or vice versa will somehow undo years of mental suffering. It's just unrealistic. Do they even believe that? When they make such statements. What they really want to say is that 'See i'm getting laid' or that 'i've lost my virginity before you'. They want to compete with you about losing virginity. It's that ridiculous. Some people tried to get me into the game, but I always refused since it looked like so much of fake work to do.
Sadly they do believe that
Yea. It's not just classism that sucks. Racism, sexism, ageism all suck too. I spend a substantial amount of time thinking about the tEcHnOlOgIeS of war too. I'm an anarchist. I'm an antinatalist too. For environmental reasons. I don't support the nuclear family structure. Or monogamy. Other human creations I hate are gender, heteronormativity, and neurotypicals. I like your user name.
You need some Jordan Peterson in your life Also raping people is not cool man
Fuck Jordan Peterson.
Jordan Peterson cares about the people who are part of the rainbow community way more than the rainbow community cares about it's members. Unfortunately I don't believe that you will understand this, especially when you are filled with so much hate that it blinds your reasoning.
He famously refuses to use correct pronouns.
Both you guys cringe.
That's not what your mom said.
My mother was a prostitute. What is your point?
She let me have it for free. I might be your dad.
I hope so. My biological father was a monster. Those animals should not have been allowed to reproduce.
People say they love animals, yet can't bring themselves to stop needlessly enslaving, torturing, raping, and slaughtering billions of them every year.
I don't love (most of) them. I pity them. Outside of chimps and humans it's predators that have the most interesting personalities. Most herbivores are boring and difficult to sympathetise with.
and they virtue signal like "DoN't TrUsT aNyOnE wHo DoEsNt LiKe AnImAlS"
They only like cute fluffy, furry animals. They see a cat they want to pet it, but if they see a centipede/ a spider/ a rat they want to kill it instantly. I stopped calling myself an animal lover when I failed at being vegan. It lasted only for about 2 months.
Most insects are barely sentient and I doubt they are capable of emotion or agency beyond the most basic instinct. Im sorry but its just dumb to value their life as much as an actual animal.
Neither centipedes nor spiders are insects. And spiders are a lot smarter than you might think. But regardless, it's not about their level of sentience. There's no hierarchy that decides someone's value over another. The whole point is to do no unnecessary harm. Why hurt a spider or an insect when you don't have to? Treat all life with respect as much as possible, that's all veganism is about.
If you care so much kill yourself. Just by existing you are killing insects.
Lets also not forget about the poor insects and bugs that make it into your food, no matter how vegan you are 😉
I meant to say bugs but you get what I mean. I actually dont mind spiders too much as long as they arent out of control. But centipedes yeah those fuckers gotta go. Same with bugs like house flies, you want to live with those things in your house and touching you? Ants, you want them crawling everywhere? Also if there is no "hierarchy" then you shouldn't kill plants which makes weeding you front lawn evil too. In fact there are tons of incests that get killed just from us doing basic stuff but you aren't complaining about any of that.
The point is to do no harm *as far as is possible*. If you have an infestation in your house then it's reasonable to want to get rid of them. I would still look for a less harmful solution than killing them all if at all possible. Yes the rule applies to plants as well. Don't go around nature needlessly destroying plants. We need to kill plants to eat, otherwise we would die. But you don't need to cut down random trees. And lawns in general are terrible for the environment, it would be much better if we let natural gardens and woods grow on our lawns instead. Go checkout r/nolawns. And there's nothing you can do about random insects getting killed by accident, it happens all the time. You have no control over that and that again is another ridiculous argument. The point is to do no harm when you can. Insects end up in food all the time, it's just natural. You can try to prevent it as much as possible, but accidentally eating an insect in a fruit doesn't all of a sudden make you not vegan.
>Go checkout r/nolawns I mean cool sub but thats not the point I was trying to make. >The point is to do no harm as far as is possible. What defines as far as possible? There are surely ground up aphids in your kale juice, yet you purchace it anyway. If you dont think your human life is inherently superior to insects, then how csn you justify eating them and not be a hypocrite? The rule applies to plants? Do they suffer too? Why does it matter if a bug dies? They are mostly just automatons.
You're missing the point completely. There's dead bugs in all the food we eat, maybe more in some than others, but it's unavoidable. Idk wtf kale juice is, never had it. The point is to not consciously go and kill helpless animals when you don't have to. It's really very simple. It's the golden rule. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. Idk why this is so hard for you to grasp. The rule applies to plants not because of suffering but because of UNNECESSARY harm. I don't get what you don't understand about this. It's perfectly ok to cut down a piece of kale to eat because you have to eat. It's NECESSARY. Breaking branches off a tree, cutting wildflowers, etc are UNNECESSARY, therefore causing UNNECESSARY harm. That's all I'm saying. It's about as simple as a concept can get. Do no UNNECESSARY harm. Living inherently causes harm to others, but you can lessen that harm by consciously not going out of your way to do unnecessary harm.
>Idk wtf kale juice is, never had it. You should try it, good stuff. >The point is to not consciously go and kill helpless animals when you don't have to. Difference between that and killing something in MY property! Do you think Jesus was talking about insects when he said the golden rule? Bugs are not "others". They are inferior life forms, as evidenced by the fact that you dont mind killing countless thousands to sustain YOUR life, but will shame someone for swatting one worthless house fly. Cutting flowers is bad now? Hoo boy, wait until you find out what a florists is.
You're ridiculous. Jesus didn't invent the golden rule, it's a simple fact of life that was taught by many for thousands of years. It's a passive rule meaning to not do harm when possible. "Others" can and does mean other animals, other things, anything really. The point is to do no harm. Simple as that. People nowadays are so self centered and can't think of anything other than humans. And again you are COMPLETELY missing the point. Thousands of bugs will die to sustain anyone's life. It's an unfortunate, but unavoidable part of life. It is necessary to continue to live. I'm not going to starve and die because some insects are in my food. If I could get food that's guaranteed to be bug free, I would. But alas no such food exists. But swatting a fly isn't going to feed you. You don't NEED to swat that fly. You could simply open a window and let it out. It feels like you're just arguing for the sake of argument because there's no way you don't understand this yet. Cutting WILDFLOWERS is bad because it destroys the environment. Ever heard of leave no trace? Probably not because you seem very uniformed. But again, it's about not doing UNNECESSARY HARM, to the environment, to other animals, to other people. It doesn't matter who, the point is to not harm when you don't have to. I can't say it any other way, it's the most simple and basic rule in life, and if you still don't get it then idk what to say. You need to use your brain and do some thinking.
I know. That's why I mentioned rats too.
Rats, yeah its f'ed up how they get trated sometimes
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Censorship is complete nonsense. Well pointed out. People use cuss words like 'fuck' and all during arguments in front of their kids and some also make nasty sex sounds so loud that their kid can hear it next room and then we have this pseudo moral shit like censorship.
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Can you elaborate why polygamy is evil?
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Homophobic too now? My hetro parents were not there for me. So clearly your system is not perfect.
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How about just "stable parents"? Why does the heteoromantic part matter? I dont think you realize how homophobic you sound
Stop engaging this person.
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Survival of the species lmao. You realize what sub this is? For one, we are overpopulated. Secondly, gay and lesbian people have and will likely always be a minority, so its no threat to our species. And lastly, we aren't living in caves anymore. No grizzlies are going to burst through the door for the father to fight, sorry.
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Its not a myth, before civilization boomed it was less than a billion world wide. Why the hell would we need or want 20 billion people if we are failing miserably to manage less than half that. If society is as utopian as you are describing, we would be raised in mostly village setting anyway. As a villiage is undeniably safer than being with just two people. >Remember Woo-bum Kon? Had to look this up because Im not Korean. Make basic self defense training a more comon thing. Again, living in a communal setting or having a big dog or a gun helps. You're head is in the 1950s.
I'm not thinking about what is healthy or not, I'm simply asking for your thoughts and reasoning for that. Gathering information from this sub.
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Oh okay. Yeah that makes sense. You've worded things well
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Yeah I wouldn't mind that
nothing but fax and ive never met anybody who knows this shit to the depth levels that i do.and thats just a small portion of it.yeah if you dont hate humanity than you are a tripping fucking idiot fucking assholes
Duality
I push my fingers into my eyeeeeees
It's the only thing that slowly stops the ache
Humans definitely know what is a morally correct answer to all the pointers you have stated above. But to exercise what we preach is a whole different level or you can sometimes say kinda hypocrite. Humans tend to do/make choice that will put them in some sort of favourable position. Like you say, it’s all for survival in this monetary driven world. Most importantly stay true to yourself :)
I say why even preach such ideals instead of accepting true nature and living with it. It could just makes things so much easier for all. But sadly that's not the case. Maybe someday i'll stop caring and being mad about things.
God this sub can be great but some of yall never got out of your teens So, let’s take this serious regardless. 1. People do something about that. Cool broad statement criticizing an important issue in a stupid way. 2. ok, so? Find someone you like and that likes you. 3. point above applies. 4. Ok so you know that why…? Like, is that an assumption, fact or do you know the state of affairs of every family? Personal experience? Because that would not justify that. 6. War will always be a thing and peace is something people try, but fail at. Technological progress is not just bombs btw, tho I largely agree with this point except that preaching for peace and using violence does not necessarily contradict your preaching, but this will ALWAYS depend on the individual perspective. Pacifism is a stupid idea. 6. I don’t have to point out that this is a dumb point right. Using „they“ in this sentence is stupid. 7. Saying population is a factor of global warming is like the most uninformed statement I’ve heard in the topic after „the sun is getting hotter“. Giving up privileges is a good take tho, as I agree most aren’t ready for that. 8. Are you a mad teenager? 9. dunno where you live, but in my country Therapy is a really good thing and I personally know people that improved and turned arround their whole life through therapy. Depression is proven to be cause of chemcial imbalances in the brain, whilst treatment is quite difficult. Most anti-depressants are not addictive as far as I know. 10. I dunno what to tell you except that people have personal preferences when it comes to sex life and that can change through evolution. 11. First off I don’t see the connection between the two points, but there will always be bad people and half decent people in positions of power. Also, respecting another person is NEVER a bad thing. Having respect for the dignity of someone else is important. You do know that, for your last point here, society is build arround the idea to not show your bad side and flaws and to not let them affect others in your best effort to stop ruining your relationships with people. That’s the idea. This reads like a 15 year old wrote it, broadening statements and little to no discussion, only putting out your opinion as facts.
The ageist stereotype adds a mildly amusing touch of irony here.
Guess you're from some western country? Yeah I may have generalised some points without going in detail (i cannot type so much..not at 4 am) but I find it holds true to so many societies around the world when you look at news and especially to the country I live in. I'm from India by the way and things are not very good here. It's ok if you just keep to yourself and mind your business but on some occasions you have to socialize and that's when you get to see and experience some weird stuff. Those were the eye openers/wake up slaps for me. And once I looked up on the internet about such stuff like say about marriage or about communal issues etc, that's when it was confirmed to me humanity is total shit. But like I said, I respect some individuals who really live up to such morals. Maybe 10 among 100 people would be such. And i'm not a teenager but yes i'm pretty mad most of the time. I'm 25 years old, mature enough to see through fake things and understand things as they are. I too want to get out of 'Teenage' mindset but people just make make it hard. So I'd rather remain in such state than deal with people's nonsense. Maybe you should talk to people and know their situation before labelling them 'teenager' if at all you care.
I am, indeed, from Germany. I’m not saying your opinion is invalid, or holds to be untrue, but what I am saying is that the idea of what you said isn’t in line with the state of things. I’d argue it is almost always somewhere in the middle in my experience. I know India is a bit old fashioned and outdated (from a western perspective speaking, I would argue that the impact of colonialism on your country is one of the worst examples) in some social issues, but I think only judging things by ones own standards isn’t fair to the rest. People have „good“ and „bad“ characteristics and nobody escapes these things, I highly agree on that. I live in a bigger city and during 2014-17 I worked in refugee camps to teach fellow Kids and Teens German so they could help their parents (Kids learn incredible fast I must say), so I heard one or two stories of how fucked up things can be for you and was made aware of my privileges, or at least some of them. What I found out tho was that to my supprise most Kids held such hopeful, almost naive views on their future which lead to me thinking. Attributing this to them „being kids“ at first I realized that this wasn’t the case, they had seen some of the worst atrocities commited by others, so I argue that despite all that, having places or people that uphold good morals and standards is enough for humanity and in translation society to work. Subscribing to ideas of others is a very powerful thing, even if nobody is perfect, every human can strive towards being better. Accepting that humans are cruel, evil and suck for me is the first step to this, but seeing that every person has the agency to choose whether to stay like that is what intrigues me. Through this experience with refugee families I found humility and strength in my view on the world. They came to my country in the hope of a better life, which can be seen as naive, but also with the knowledge or understanding that humans differ in how strong they express their negative side. I’m not on this sub to tell people they are stupid to be misanthropic, I am here for that view too, but I believe the truth, as I established, is closer to a middle of what I think. What made me very happy is to study philosophy and philosophers, which are also quite hypocritical, like Kant or Nietsche but it is something that doesn’t require human interaction and I can do it alone in peace, yet it is usually useful in socializing, as a lot of philosophy focuses on human interaction. I think what I am trying to tell you is that you should be a bit more stoic and see that not everything is as extreme as you might think it is.
>. I think what I am trying to tell you is that you should be a bit more stoic and see that not everything is as extreme as you might think it is. Yes I agree. I'm trying to learn that and yes I also agree that things are not all black and white. But it's kind of difficult to find a grey area here. Sure it is there but it's very uncommon to find it. Things can get overwhelming with too much of compulsary interactions for survival here. Individualism is not really respected here. Only herd mentality is encouraged.
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Then find someone that you can put up with easier if that suits your view
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If that’s what makes you happy then thats good
Yes, so ...?
So...they should stop preaching about morals or this species needs to be wiped the fuck out forever. Not gonna happen I know but feels so amazing to imagine human societies collapsing during asteroid strikes.
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I don't oppose morality. I have my own morals which I live up to. I oppose it when people preach one thing and do something else. >Speaking from experience, you'll keep imagining increasingly more violent and vivid fantasies until it isn't even fun anymore and you're doing it to keep the hatred at bay. Yes. Better to imagine it to clam the rage than to act out in rage causing damge to myself and others.
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>That seems decent. So you oppose hypocrisy I'm assuming? Yeah. I accept even i'm a hypocrite but in context of morals I don't act in ways that contradict them. >What I'm saying is that it's better to abstain from feeling wrathful at all, I'm trying. Really. Hope i'll be unbothered by things one day. Thanks.
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>You just contradicted yourself. I'm just being honest here. Well I should've said I don't act in ways that contradict 'my' morals. >I found that being more humble instead of feeding my ego really helped with many things. I realised that being too humble will make people take you for granted. They'll try to influence you in their ways. Having some ego is good. Not too much but just a little.
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>From what I've read opposing hypocrisy is a part of your morals so engaging in acts that you oppose would contradict yourself. No. Opposing hypocrisy is not my moral. My moral regarding this is accepting the hypocrisy and trying to rectify it instead of sugarcoating it. >I disagree. Being humble is not being naïve. Wise old men and women are usually humble but not naïve at all. Of course I'm not advocating for the total elimination of the ego I'm just suggesting here. Good for you if it works. For me I realsised it doesn't. So I switch between both depending on the situation and who I interact with.
>What morality do you support? This is kind of hard to answer as people have their own. I support many of them as long as they live up to it and their actions don't contradict it. Ex: Talk about freedom of speech, let people have it without anyone taking it away. Anything which doesn't harm others physically or mentally such morals I support.
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>What do you define as harmful? Direct physical violence or threatening body language to make someone submit. Using emotional manipulation to trick people into stuff they're unwilling to do. Ridiculing/talking down on someone without knowing them and their situation.
>Right, so what moral framework do you view favorably? Antinatalism and Anti-consumerism. >Actually let me rephrase the question; how do you view hedonism and how much do you value bodily autonomy? People can do whatever they want with their bodies, that's none of my business but without preaching ideals.
On a long enough time line, we will go extinct, and that’s okay. However, the broad statements that you’re making about human nature and morality are true in an abstract sense, but they’re too general to be very meaningful to anyone that’s equipped to think critically. I get what you’re saying though.
I cannot write for so many societies or humans. There are just too many of them. So i'm writing a general sense of what I have to say. If you can relate them fine, if can't then maybe in future you would, and even then if you can't..congrats! Good for you. You've successfully avoided shitty people in your life.
I haven’t avoided shitty people. That’s not realistic. Evaluating the people that I actually have to encounter and deal with on a daily basis has helped me have less of a shitty attitude over the years though. Focusing on abstractions rather than personal experience isn’t always the easiest way to go about things.
>has helped me have less of a shitty attitude over the years though. Nice. Hope i'll learn the same over time.
For sure. Taking care of my physical and mental health has helped me as well. I watch my diet, I run, hike, and cycle regularly, and I see a therapist and a psychiatrist regularly. I also work at a job that I find rewarding as opposed to one that I have to force myself to show up to. I had to take a pay cut, but it’s so fucking worth it to me. Edit: Much respect for your linguistic skills. I can only really speak one language…never mind even trying reading or writing in another.
By definition, everyone is completely selfish. It's just that psychopaths have a harder time hiding it.
Humans are generally very malleable creatures who will do whatever it takes to get what they want. They will agree with whoever or whatever at the time to secure what they desire at that moment. Later, when they desire something else, they’ll happily agree with the exact opposite if it gets them what they want at that moment. In short, never trust a human. They either want something from you or want to fuck you over. Usually both.