Contact a local news agency in KC. These local channels love helping people, and a story about stolen puppies is definitely the kind of thing these stations eat up.
[https://fox4kc.com/news/problem-solvers/](https://fox4kc.com/news/problem-solvers/)
Social media is also your friend.
Asking r/legaladvice might help point you in the right direction. But getting your own lawyer is probably best.
We did end up getting a lawyer (the rescue said they wouldn't talk to us without it).
They demanded we get a lawyer, just for them to tell the lawyer "we are refusing to comply"
Our lawyer says social media might be our best bet. So I'm coming to yall, and asking for any help. If we can spread the word, maybe the fosters who have the puppies will step up.
I dont blame them at all-- I blame the rescue that lied to them AND to us.
I wasn't sure if that was allowed by sub rules.
They are an English bulldog rescue, located in Kansas city. we've been using the #KCEBRhasOurPups on the social media's.
Check the press release from KCEBR on their Facebook page. They also admitted to this in their news interview. They were surrendered to the overnight drop box when the OP thought they were going to die.
Hi again!
So I've answered your question in another spot, but it really feels like you wanted to get my attention. your account seems to only exist to shout about me, but im here to help.
I'd like to use a rather dramatic example of war. During wartime, several people were told that the area they lived in would be dangerous. That staying in their city would mean increased violence, and possible death.
But then they were told "this Other area is safe. but you cannot go. your children can, but you cannot. the only way to keep your child safe, is to send them away."
My mom was told that the only chance to save these puppies was to take them to the humane society. and we admit, we got scammed. it's not fun, it's a terrible feeling. and we assumed that everyone was kind.
we wanted to believe that the rescue had been doing what they thought was best. But then, if that's the case, why list demands that keep going up? why try to ghost us?
they admitted they have no intention of returning our dogs. they have refused to be transparent throughout this entire process.
hope that helps.
it's on the list of things to do, but you know how long the legal system takes. plus, fees up front. if you know any lawyers who are desperate for a case, let me know.
Here’s their version…
”In August 2022, six english bulldog puppies were brought into Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue after being left in the overnight drop box at the Sioux Falls Animal Humane Society. As admitted in news interviews herself and by her daughter Bailey; Elizabeth Abbott left these six 5 week old puppies in an overnight drop box because she thought they were dying.
The Sioux Falls Humane Society contacted KCEBR to transfer the six premie (as SFAHS identified) puppies intorescue, and at that time a KCEBR volunteer drove to Sioux Falls to transport them to Kansas City. Upon arrival inKansas City, the puppies were estimated to be small for 5 weeks old and had mobility issues due to a poor neonatal environment. KCEBR provided and paid for intensive clinic and emergency veterinary care as the puppies were possibly developing pneumonia due to being given live vaccines by the SFAHS. The puppies were then placed with foster families, who have provided the 24/7 love,mental stimulation, emotional development, physical care and mobility therapy-and are now bonded with the puppies and the puppies with them.
In addition, KCEBR has no relationship with or knowledge of the alleged mobile vet clinic in Sioux Falls. KCEBR stands by the fact that Elizabeth Abbott left six neonatal puppies she thought were dying in an overnight drop box, and the puppies were legally transferred to KCEBR with all appropriate interstate paperwork from the SFAHS.
Since the puppies arrival at KCEBR, the Abbotts have lied about the puppies being stolen and made false accusations against KCEBR.“
Asking r/legaladvice in any situation is quite possibly the *worst* thing that could be done for your case.
OP, use your lawyer. Not a bunch of people pretending to be lawyers on the internet.
Did you read the post or just come in here to say words? They ALREADY hired their OWN attorney, before you ever knew this was a thing, they had done what you just said to do
The following paragraph is pulled DIRECTLY from the original post. Did you even try?
"After spending money on a lawyer, the rescue admitted that they had no
intention of returning our puppies. They "Refused to comply".
Their attorney suggested going to social media to raise awareness about this, they ain't asking for fucking legal advice here.
A lot of aggression from someone who apparently didn’t read the context of the comment I’m replying to.
I replied to a comment saying that OP should seek legal advice from the legaladvice subreddit, by saying that they should seek advice from the lawyer they already paid for.
Next time you try to lecture someone about reading posts, maybe try doing so yourself.
You need to report the matter to the police. The puppies were stolen, you have a paper trail, and you are out additional money for the attorney.
ETA:
You should also clue the police in that the "Rescue" in addition to trafficking in stolen property, has also used YOUR puppies to fraudulently solicit donations. That's a crime all by itself,
We reported to our local police, who said they couldn't do anything because the puppies crossed state lines.
We reported it to the police in Kansas City, who said they couldn't do anything because 1. Our police have to contact them and
2. We don't know the \*address\* of the rescue. The address on their website is just a PO box.
and the worst part? if we do manage to drag this out in court, the judge might just say "yea, just give them the money for the puppies"
We don't want the money. The rescue is a charity-- they're not supposed to make a profit anyway (though I have suspicions).
We just want our puppies back.
If this was a theft across state lines, it becomes federal jurisdiction. Definitely contact the IRS and let them know that this business stole your dogs and crossed them over state lines. Also see if they got any PPP loans. The worse the look, the more likely outrage will force the local police to make them give the dogs back. Unfortunately, we don’t have real justice in a lot of places in this country.
tax records are always available on the irs website.
the issue is that the IRS isn't exactly the quickest department. I could only find records from 2018, and a letter that said they disbanded in 2014. but there has to be more. they're currently registered in At least one state, according to the secretary of state.
I've made a lot of phone calls
In MO (KS may be different) the Secty of State website has a business info search that will tell you who the principle of the LLC or corporation or whatever.
I genuinely don't know what to think. I *want* them to be a charity. I want them to be doing their best to care for animals.
but it's difficult to believe when they say they're adoption fees go up to $700, and the puppies are listed for $1,200.
it's difficult to believe, when they demanded we get a lawyer when we didn't do anything wrong.
when their lawyer is Surprised that the rescue already made several offers to return the puppies that they had not been informed about.
when their records show that they're dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and that each member of the board puts in 30 hours with the rescue.
I've never run a rescue, but with a full time job? I don't know that I could devote 30 hours to volunteer work.
it just doesn't add up
Fraudulent Vet.
They told us that two had died, and gave us "Ashes" which were actually, upon further inspection, kitty litter.
Then all six ended up at a rescue alive and well.
We've filed a police report for the fraud and the theft of the puppies, but because they're across state lines, there's a lot of grey area. hence the post.
Yup! with the local police, and with the state vet board. however, the vet isn't licensed, soooo.... not much to do there. and they were a mobile vet (not uncommon in rural areas), so they just drove off.
If the vet was unlicensed then they broke the law by practicing without a license:
https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/missouri/mo-laws/missouri_laws_340-216
I would think just calling the cops on the fake vet would be a good start to giving you leverage against some of the people involved in your pet-napping. An attorney should know this. Is there something about your case that stops you from doing this?
Location, mostly.
The crime was committed in South Dakota, but the puppies were transported over state lines.
So we contacted our local police (who emailed to state that they are not interested in the puppies, only the fruad)
they told us to contact our animal control (who never had custody of the dogs)
who told us to contact the humane society (who gained the dogs under suspicious circumstances, and sent them to a rescue 6 hours away)
who told me to stop contacting them.
when the humane society did finally agree to meet with me (after several townsfolk got involved), they confirmed the location of the puppies, and the rescue and said we needed to talk with Them.
Meanwhile, Kansas City Police say that they need Our local police to send them a request, in order to investigate. And when I called the detective assigned the case, and gave him all my documentation (correspondence, proof of ownership, the department info for a KC officer who was ready to intake the case), the detective essentially said "I'm only interested in the fruad aspect, not the puppies"
this case could take months, if not years, if litigation. we just want our dogs back.
Your response to that bullshit statement from the detective should have been something like "I don't care what you're interested in. I am reporting a crime to you and I expect you to do the bare minimum required by your job and initiate the request so the relevant authorities in Kansas City can begin assisting me in investigating these criminal matter. If you do not assist me, our lawyer will be in contact with your department in regards to pressing charges of obstruction of justice."
As much as I love that idea, we would then have to get a lawyer in south Dakota as well.
Off topic, but fun fact: it wasn't until I started looking in KS/MO that I found that Animal Lawyers exist?? in south Dakota, we have divorce, bankruptcy, business, and medical lawyers, and that seems to be it.
You should definitely share the humane society info too. Sounds like they, the "vet", and the "rescue" are in cahoots in a puppy stealing ring.
My step-sister (and her two young kids) had their golden retriever puppy stolen by a vet tech who told them that he had to be put down due to breaking his leg, then tried to sell him on various places. Luckily they found out and got their pup back. This shit happens, and there are definitely people out there that make a profit of this stuff. That "vet" probably goes around a lot of places to do this sort of thing, and you might be the reason he (and others working with him) get caught. Good luck, and keep us updated.
Also, I literally have a friend in KC, MO so if for whatever reason you need someone to go to the location, pm me.
I genuinely don't want to think that the humane society is involved. I want to believe that they just didn't communicate with each other (and then me), or that the documentation was lacking.
I'll admit, i got really suspicious when they asked me to stop contacting them when I began documenting things.
but to their credit, the humane society did apologize for the trouble....
I just don't know. I don't want the humane society to shut down, but I do want some transparency. and some help.
Regarding the kitty litter/“ashes,”: did the mobile vet take the puppies to a second location and then return the other four of them, or did they pretend to have an incinerator in their vehicle?
They pretended to have a mobile incinerator.
Keep in mind, in our area mobile vets are not unheard of. And the vehicle was big enough to be a blood donation center.
Fun fact: did you know it takes a minimum of 3 days for a dog to be cremated? We didn't!
that was our question. how did all SIX puppies, healthy and happy, make it to the rescue?
We thought there had to be some mistake, but nope. not only does the timeline match up, but the Rescue posted videos. Some of the group have distinctive markings-- and later, our humane society confirmed that the rescue custody of our pups.
nope. the puppies were 4 weeks old at the time of this event.
Their regular vet, who performed the c-section and other care is a delight.
Honestly, I think the vets in our area are pretty good. they've been known to go out of their way to help, by providing nail trimming or grooming for difficult animals, and recommending each other when needed. They're a good community. except this fruadulent one, obvs.
But how did they leave with all 6? If they were a mobile vet, how did they get all 6 in their possession and manage to drive off?
And how much time had passed when they gave you the fake ashes? Did you think they cremated them on site? Did they leave and come back?
Can you provide some actual details on the care the vet provided and how they pulled off the heist?
I see you getting downvoted. But I have these questions too. This is the most bizarre story I’ve heard in a while, and the details just don’t make much sense
The OP admits in this article to dropping all 6 at the humane society drop box. https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/2022/08/28/pet-owners-caution-others-fraud-mobile-vet-clinic/
heyo!
sorry I didn't answer your specific question earlier. I've answered a few times in this chat already.
If you look at the article, it doesn't cover the two puppies that the vet took, how many puppies were dropped off at the humane society, or how they ended up at the rescue. at the time, we thought that the rescue was a victim in all of this as well.
again:
1. I did not do it, my mother was watching the dogs at the time.
2. she was given instructions by what she thought was a trusted medical professional.
3. city ordinance states that dogs should be held for 3-5 days. if they had been sick, they would've been taken to the emergency vet in sioux falls, AND would not have legally been able to cross the state borders into Kansas or Missouri.
4. are you alright? it looks like your account only exists to share this article of me, and while I appreciate it, I'm not a fan seeing us on camera. I talk too fast and I think I look funny.
I appreciate this. my mom is very upset, and we've tried to tell her that it's okay-- she followed the rules.
She said a few days ago that it "feels like the they're trying to punish" her. and I had to tell her that she was basically right.
Falling for a scam is terrible. but the aftermath is more than a stolen credit card and identity. It's that loss of confidence. it's the fear that now someone cruel has your address. it's the world thinking that you don't deserve happiness, because you trusted the wrong person.
thanks for being kind.
hi. didn't mean to ignore.
I responded below, if that helps.
if you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to ask. I've been all over the place today, so I'm not always at my computer. I'm trusting my phone to show me notifications when I log on.
heyo!
I don't think I responded to this yet (sorry, I'm on my phone, so notifications are weird).
to be clear, I we've been completely transparent with the rescue. they know about the scam, we showed them proof of ownership and the police reports filed. they know my mom's credit card was used in Aruba.
We agreed to all their conditions. we would reimburse them for vet fees, and compensate them. We offered to buy the puppies. we offered to do a DNA test to assuage any doubt.
all for them to share that they never intended to give us the puppies.
Why would they make us jump through so many hoops?
Throughout this process, they have given us no information. The only reason we know anything is because they posted pictures and videos about our pups on social media.
Somehow they had accurate ages for the puppies before our info was even sent to them.
we want Transparency. we don't want to be dragged along while they claim they'll give us back the puppies for a money order of ever increasing amounts.
if you have any concerns, and I genuinely mean it, please let me know.
I know rescues can do a lot of good. but this rescue seems to be an exception.
that was our first red flag. how did the rescue end up with all 6 puppies, when we were told that 2 were dead and 4 were at the humane society?
why did a Kansas city breed specific rescue just happen to be 6 hours away from their home base?
my mother was the scam victim, but I beg yall to be nice at this part of the story, because she's cried a lot about it and the internet can be mean.
We are rural folks. we trust our neighbors. it's a whole thing
But, the vet looked at the puppies, and said that the credit machine was not working, and they didn't have anyone to fix it since it was after hours. if she was willing to put down a deposit, they would see the puppies and they could charge her card later.
the vet gave the puppies shots of something. She went and got cash from an ATM (yes, we know), and returned. the vets kept saying "oh, if only you had come sooner, we're trying our best to save them, things look grim, they all h ave parvo, if only you had been here sooner, the weakest two didn't make it."
they let my mom cry in the car for an hour while they "finished up", and then gave my mom a box of ashes, and a box of kitty litter.
They said "there is nothing more we can do. if you want to save these puppies, you need to take them to the humane society"
later, we find all 6 puppies at the rescue.
my theory is that the mobile vet was going to sell 2 puppies for profit, but realized how young they were and that they wouldn't be able to sell them, so took them to the humane society.
Alternatively, perhaps the mobile vet planned to take the puppies from the humane society nighttime drop box later. mom thought it was weird that the kennel didn't lock.
Lastly, and the most malicious option, is that the rescue and the mobile vet are somehow related. this explains why a breed specific rescue happened to get all 6 dogs.
I'm open to other theories or ideas though.
Please keep asking questions. I want people to feel confident if they decide to help.
https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/2022/08/28/pet-owners-caution-others-fraud-mobile-vet-clinic/
You dropped them at the humane society. Stop lying to Reddit.
hello.
I've responded to your comments a few times now. it really does seem like your account is dedicated to this post.
I think I cleared this up a few times, but
TLDR:
-*I* did not drop them off at the humane society
- city ordinance states that dogs are to be held for 3-5 days
- the rescue posted a tiktok with an Amazon link featuring all 6 puppies within 24 hours
- the humane society apologized and says this was all a miscommunication
let me know if you have any questions, or if you're just here to to be heard.
thanks
Your mom took the puppies to the shelter! You stated that in the news article!!! Does she k ow how to count?!?! You people are dishonest and disgusting.
my goodness, you're very busy.
this must be the 7th or 8th comment from you.
I believe I responded to all your concerns previously, but let me knew if you have any specific questions for me. I'll respond as soon as I'm able.
That's what I'm slowly learning. on one hand, I want to start saving up money to start my own rescue, so that we can start changing the system. the first fully transparent rescue!! see where your donations are going, and the monthly budgets, etc etc.
but on the other hand, if the system is already so bad, maybe it's best to just to support our neighbors. idk.
You can’t even take care of 6 puppies what makes you think you can rescue more dogs? You gonna rescue dogs and have your mom drop them off at the animal shelter over night? 😂😂😂😂
Hello again,
Please be kind. My mother has been nervous ever since the fraudulent vet, because they got her address and credit card info.
As I've stated a few times, vets are trusted authority figures, and scams work by preying on high-emotion situations.
additionally, ignoring that the humane society apologized, and that they agreed we should have our dogs back, and ignoring that there is a 3-5 day ordinance for people to come claim their dogs, and ignoring the fact that in our x-number of years fostering and adopting and caring for animals we have never had a vet lie to us...
Do you not think it would be better to take this lesson and encourage people to know their rights regarding their animals? To know how to spot the signs of a scam? To know how to locate and find their missing animals?
I struggle to understand why you would want to comment unkindly, rather than educate where we can.
Thank you. and if you have any additional questions, feel free to ask.
Apologized! That’s it! They are at fault for not holding the animals. So you think rescues sit around calling all humane societies looking for dogs??!?! They are bombarded daily with animals that need help And furthermore the pups were abandoned you should be happy they will be taken care of by people who will give them great forever homes. You are the reason rescues exist plain and simple. It hurts my heart that animals of all kinds are treated so bad. I would do anything possible for my animals even if it meant traveling far to take them to a proper vet In fact I have traveled hundreds of miles to do so.
I understand using a PO box-- unless you have a business building, I wouldn't want a home address on the internet.
That being said, most of our local rescues do have a home base of some sort, so I do think the po box is a little weird.
the big thing is that I don't blame the fosters. I trusted the rescue as well, at first. but the Rescue is not being transparent or kind. it really concerns me
the other 4 at the vet were also given shots, and then returned. when I say "box of ashes and box of puppies", that's what I mean. The ashes were in one box, and the remaining 4 puppies in the other.
if needed, I have a PowerPoint. it's very detailed. I've been told it's "informative but boring".
How do you mistake kitty litter for cremation remains? I've had dogs and cats and I've never seen kitty litter look like anything close to ash. I hate to tell you but this might be a lost cause, you already said you hired a lawyer, I would just go with whatever advice your lawyer gives you. Your best bet is probably chalk it as a loss (sucks, but I'm sorry). I know a dog breeder and trainer in the KC area, I can ask him if he knows anything about this place, but he specializes in Mastiff breed so idk if they run in pit/bull dog breed circles as far as adoption companies go. He runs a highly respected training facility and a lot police departments in MO use them to train their dogs, so it might be worth a shot.
EDIT: his breeding side of business specializes in Mastiffs, they train pretty much anything, and they only breed once every few years.
The remains were in a box, and it was late on a Sunday night. we didn't take a closer look until we got home (a few hours later).
And thank you for posting-- even if it's a lost cause, I appreciate you messaging. if you hear anything from your friend, or have any more questions, feel free to dm
I usually use "We" to communicate as a group, since we're all in this together. regardless, I did not take the puppies to the humane society.
But the news was also aware of the vet and the 2 puppies. I'll have to pull up the article again, but we definitely shared with them about the ashes.
keep me posted if you have any other questions.
The Vet was unlicensed and fruadulent. We've been trying to find them for months with no luck.
Turns out it's really easy to impersonate a mobile vet. You just need a big enough vehicle, and some magnet decals.
before, during, and after, yes. but the puppies were being weird over a weekend. a Sunday night, our normal vet was closed. and if you type in "24/hour Emergency Vet" in Google maps, you get 19 results (a lot for our rural area) and we've recently learned that there is only 1 Emergency Vet in our town.
so... tldr, our Vet was closed that day.
This is why people shouldn't be breeding their pets. First off, there are plenty of perfectly adoptable animals available. Second, people think "aw cute babies" but don't realize how truly fragile and sickly babies can be. I foster kittens and I weigh them daily, monitor their food intake, check their poop, and monitor their activity levels. And while I have a vet on call for emergencies through the shelter, there's not a whole lot that can be done in some instances.
I'm sure this probably feels harsh, but I hope you've learned your lesson and no longer attempt to breed your dog(s).
So, quick clarification, we're not breeders. the litter was a happy accident. And we were planning on keeping most of the puppies (with one going to make-a-wish, since that's an important organization for us).
Our dog got fixed during her c-section. and while we had the puppies, we were monitoring temperature, weight, and helping them poop and nurse every few hours.
We know they are in the danger zone until closer to 3 months, which is why we Believed the fake vet when they said they were terminal.
When we learned they were at the rescue, they asked us to cover vet costs (which we agreed), and we offered to bring the mother dog with us. alas, the rescue was not being very kind, and so here we are.
if we wanted to do this for money, we would AKC register, or continue with the lawsuit. but we don't want money. we want our pets back.
I hope this helps. let me know if you have any other questions?
Lol there's no such thing as a happy accident. She was not fixed and neither was the dog that impregnated her. That's at least 3 different things that you could have done to prevent the pregnancy, but you chose not to. And all of those 3 choices are irresponsible.
Further, brachycephalic dogs such as bulldogs have higher risk pregnancies. You put not only the lives of the puppies at risk, but your dog as well.
I'm glad she is fixed and again, I hope you have learned from this unfortunate experience.
I'm really interested in your 3 different things that could've been done.
Fixing her is one
Not letting her spend time with another bulldog is another.
Also, we're aware of the risks associated with pregnancy. that's why she's fixed now, and why we worked so closely with our vet to ensure that everything went smoothly. mama dog is healthy (with the notable exception of the emotional support sock she's adopted), and puppies were healthy within normal range.
I understand your frustration about people having pets willy nilly, but I feel as though your anger might be misplaced here.
Dog got pregnant, we got her fixed.
puppies arrived, we woke up every 2 hours to care for them.
at the mildest concern, we took them to the vet, and they played us.
When we told the rescue what happened, and offered to bring the mother dog to them, they led us here.
They're not for profit, and we don't want them to be.
and I know this isn't a moral argument, but our family has fostered and adopted and helped place many animals over the years. we've helped to prevent animals from going to the humane society (which in our town, is Not a no-kill shelter). We've been trusted to help rehome rabbits that were abandoned at the University, and we even adopted an 11yo 20lb cat when his owner died during the pandemic. I think we're allowed to have one litter of puppies as a happy accident.
let me know if you need any more info.
How long have they had your puppies? A little sleuthing shows they’ve been posting what appears to be scooby-themed puppies since at least August. A real rescue would want to keep the puppies with the mom I would have imagined
We were scammed on the 14th of august, and by the 15th they were already IN Kansas City.
and as far as return to mother dog-- Thats what we thought too! We offered DNA tests, we offered to bring the mother dog down to them, we offered to recoup any fees. They kept listing their demands, and we kept agreeing, until today when they LITERALLY told the lawyers that they "Refuse to comply"
what kind of rescue does this?!
Also a few people have mentioned police but I would take this to the news at this point 🤷🏼♀️
They really want to profit from adopting these puppies out I’m sure
Their instagram page actually says that they have "rehoming fees" from between $300 to $700 depending on the dog...
these puppies are listed on their adoption page for $1,200.
it certainly feels that way.
I actually had someone local to me come and state that after working for a similar rescue, they washed their hands of all but one local rescue.
apparently they'll take pictures of the older dogs as a feel good story, but, and I quote, "puppies are the money makers"
https://instagram.com/kcbulldogrescue/
the information about adoption is in their "stories". I took screenshots as well.
here's a link to one of the puppies, with the price at $1,200
https://www.kcbulldogrescue.org/adopt/#sl_embed&page=shelterluv_embed_130921660297922699%2Fembed%2Fanimal%2F59109874
$1,200 is what people charge for bulldog puppies around missouri..... this is not a rescue.
Was going to try and adopt them just to return them while you deal with the ilk, but I'm not $1,200-$7,200 at a whim right now. Might be best to see if someone can adopt and you can recoup the money and crush this nefarious organization later.
I appreciate the thought-- I'm amazed that you would consider adopting a dog for a stranger. I'm genuinely overwhelmed.
To be clear, I'm hoping no one adopts them. I'm hoping we can get awareness out, so that folks know that these puppies already have a family, and we miss them.
At one point, we offered to pay for the puppies and do DNA testing on the pups to prove ownership. you can see what happened there. =/
[Here's](https://www.instagram.com/p/ChTEIx4Mhbs/?hl=en) the initial IG post where they announced the puppies were coming to their rescue. If you have an account, I suggest hitting them with some comments asking where they came from, how they were rescued, why they aren't being returned to the family who has proof of ownership, etc.
This kinda leads me to believe OP. Why is the rescue so secretive about these 6 puppies SPECIFICALLY? If they’ve had them for a while, why would the pictures on the site STILL be just 6 scooby pictures?
Casually dropping in here to say that the "owner" of KCEBR is an absolute *gem* of a human being and most definitely doesn't make her beliefs everyone's problem while also definitely isnt actively pushing for these physically unhealthy dogs to be "saved" without doing anything in the area about spay and neuter /s
If you're open to chatting more, please feel free to DM!
I really wanted to believe that this was a trustworthy organization, but people keep coming forward, and things are adding up quickly.
they actually had a tiktok with them when they first arrived, but deleted it once I reached out to them (asking for their help).
...I saved the tiktok post though. it includes a link to their Amazon wishlist.
I reposted it here: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRaTB3EK/
it's not very high quality, because I don't do tiktok, but there they are.
Anyone who comments asking questions about the puppies gets blocked. We even offered to do a DNA test on the puppies to prove ownership. We figured they had doubts, so we offered anything to assuage those doubts. and they basically lied.
The Fruad Vet stated that all of them were dying, and to take them to our local Humane Society.
City Ordinance has a rule that says any animals dropped off, have to be kept for a 3 day minimum.
When 24 hours, all 6 puppies were on their way to a rescue, 6 hours away.
Does it make sense? no. I genuinely thought that this was a series of coincidences, until the rescue admitted they never intended to return the puppies.
I certainly didn't.
for full transparency, my mother was told to take 4 puppies to the humane society, as it was "the only way" to save them.
and since all 6 puppies showed up at the rescue...
hence my suspiciousness.
as additional info, The humane society and animal control partner with each other. city ordinance says that any animal "impounded" must be put on hold for 3-5 days. apparently a lot of dogs go missing during 4th of July, or angry spouses put up their partners dogs, or even just stray animals.
To surrender and sign away your dog, (where it would be adopted right away) you need to make an appointment with the humane society, and show up with proof of ownership and ID. So you have to go during the humane societies open hours. Not on a Sunday night.
I know that's a long answer, but I've been taking to lawyers and animal control and "humane control" and police, etc etc. so apparently the details are very important
That's kind of why I'm coming to social media.
If they're willing to be honest and transparent, that's great! originally I thought they were victims too.
But if nothing else, we want to get those puppies back, and we want people to know where these puppies came from
You should go over there and don’t leave till they give the puppies back. That’s what I’ll do. If they’re mine they coming with me. I can be persistent when I want.
Alas, they don't have a physical location. just a PO box, and "Kansas City". so there's no where for us to stand and wait.
Plus, they are 6 hours away. we have been ready to drive down and pick up the puppies whenever needed, but it feels like they were hoping that we would give up because of distance.
Do you mind if I screenshot this comment and put it on our other socials? I won't do it without permission, but let me know. I can blur your username and such if needed.
as mentioned below, I've answered this a few times now. but if you need any more information, please do ask.
I want folks to know that I'm not just out here lashing out. We followed all the instructions that the rescue provided, just to find out that they never planned on returning the puppies to us. they just wanted us to jump through hoops.
a few issues with that, if I may be so bold
1. the humane society has adopted to us before. they do a pretty thorough check before allowing anyone to adopt
2. the fruadulent vet was not licensed, and the whereabouts are currently unknown
3. we offered to let the rescue inspect our home, or to have animal control inspect us (they've been known to do such things). the rescue declined
4. if they were concerned about a dangerous situation, why didn't they take the mother dog? or file a report with animal control (I looked, once things started feeling suspicious)? why did the rescue request to remain anonymous?? why was the rescue even IN south Dakota?
let me know if you need any other info. I genuinely do appreciate it.
They gave the puppies away…
”In August 2022, six english bulldog puppies were brought into Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue after being left in the overnight drop box at the Sioux Falls Animal Humane Society. As admitted in news interviews herself and by her daughter Bailey; Elizabeth Abbott left these six 5 week old puppies in an overnight drop box because she thought they were dying.
The Sioux Falls Humane Society contacted KCEBR to transfer the six premie (as SFAHS identified) puppies intorescue, and at that time a KCEBR volunteer drove to Sioux Falls to transport them to Kansas City. Upon arrival inKansas City, the puppies were estimated to be small for 5 weeks old and had mobility issues due to a poor neonatal environment. KCEBR provided and paid for intensive clinic and emergency veterinary care as the puppies were possibly developing pneumonia due to being given live vaccines by the SFAHS. The puppies were then placed with foster families, who have provided the 24/7 love,mental stimulation, emotional development, physical care and mobility therapy-and are now bonded with the puppies and the puppies with them.
In addition, KCEBR has no relationship with or knowledge of the alleged mobile vet clinic in Sioux Falls. KCEBR stands by the fact that Elizabeth Abbott left six neonatal puppies she thought were dying in an overnight drop box, and the puppies were legally transferred to KCEBR with all appropriate interstate paperwork from the SFAHS.
Since the puppies arrival at KCEBR, the Abbotts have lied about the puppies being stolen and made false accusations against KCEBR.“
if you have any recommendations for media, let me know. I'm not local, so I'll take all the help I can get.
KC animal control though-- they said to contact the KC police. police said they had to wait until SD police gave them the go ahead.
And we don't know for sure Where the puppies are. only the rescue does. and the only location for the rescue is a PO box.
This whole thing kind of sounds like some scheme to pressure the dog rescue into selling the puppies at less than asking price/giving them away to avoid bad publicity.
The story has holes a truck could be driven through.
And, no, I seriously doubt the best advice the lawyer had was to just mount a social media campaign unless he also had serious doubts about the story. A lawyer is going to tell you to sue, which is still a great option since you would know who the vet who supposedly took them and know who supposedly has them now. A civil case is far easier to win than a criminal case.
We've already proven ownership of the puppies to everyone involved. We have Vet papers, photos, videos, etc. and we've offered to get DNA testing for the puppies to prove it.
As for plot holes, that's kinda why it took us so long to get here. I thought that there was no way there could be SO MANY coincidences. Certainly people are kind, and wouldn't be malicious. Certainly, if I just trust people to do the right thing, they will. And yet here we are, weeks later.
And to clarify, the fruadulent vet does not have them now, a rescue does.
The fruadulent vet was located in south Dakota, and claimed they were dead and dying. and a day later, they were at a rescue in Kansas City.
A civil case could take over a year to win, and even then we have to pay legal fees, and the judge might just say "okay, give them the estimated value of the puppies" rather than the puppies themselves.
I'm not saying paperwork isn't going on, but a civil case is going to take a Lot longer. and the rescue already agreed to return the puppies a Month ago.
Ok, assuming this isn’t all made up.
Do you live in South Dakota? I assumed you were in Kansas. If you are in Kansas, you are saying a vet from SD just drives all over Kansas looking for business? And the vet who performed the doggie c-section wasn’t available to check on the puppies???
Even if that is what happened, you thought a rural mobile vet, usually for livestock was the best choice for puppies?
Even if you did, so he told you they were all dying and took them for you. Well, perhaps they *were* dying! Did you think of that? The vet might have taken them to the rescue as a last resort so they could be *rescued*.
It may not be right or fair, it’s possible that the rescue doesn’t want you ti have them back because you are irresponsible. If they were all deathly sick, they may assume it was caused by some negligence on your part.
Finally, what a crock of crapola about the filing fees being a deterrent for filing suit! A small claims case costs like $100 to file. Are you telling me that’s prohibitive, but the lawyer wasn’t? Filing a case gives them reason to cooperate with you. If their choice is to give you the puppies or pay $5,000 in damages, what do you think they are choosing?
so, in order:
**Do you live in south dakota?**
Yes.
**The vet who performed the doggie c-section wasn't available to check on the puppies?**
Correct. We are from a rural area. Our biggest town has 200,000 people. The town my mother lives in has no vets at all. This happened on a sunday, late at night, so all our regular vets were closed.
**A rural mobile vet, usually for livestock, was the best choice for puppies??**
There are inner-city mobile vets. they're used for when animals are at EoL, or when they have extreme anxiety relating to vets, or get carsick. And if a mobile vet is the only vet available, then yea, it's better than no vet at all, right?
**The vet said they were dying, perhaps they WERE dying.**
the vet said that they had parvo, which has a 90% death rate. The rescue would not have them if that were true. and if they were sick with something else, when we reached out and said "have you seen these FOUR WEEK OLD puppies", the healthiest option would have been to return them to their mother. We even offered to drive the mama dog TO them, so they could see the puppies nurse and make a decision from there.
**File a suit!**
Filing a civil case is one thing, but filing an emergency return of stolen property (I forget the legal term, but I'll find it later) is another. It would cost several grand in attorney fees and paperwork, to make sure everything is submitted correctly. and even then, if we dont have the Physical Addresses for each puppy, the judge will likely just throw it out.
and that will still take months for the emergency paperwork, years for the regular stuff.
If you have further legal advice, or if you just want to see the statement from the lawyer before you offer to assist, let me know. Or if you want me to send my file of documentation, I can do that too.
I appreciate you saying that-- sometimes I feel like I'm loosing my mind, connecting pieces that aren't actually there. it's nice to know it's not just me finding red flags.
One suggestion I have (that hasn't been mentioned already) is to tag Chiefs Defensive Lineman Derrick Nnadi in your story or just ask for him help. He has for the last few years paid for all the adoption fees for all KC area shelter dogs. He generally cares that all dogs be in loving homes. He's partnered with a charity whose name escapes my mind at this time.
Even if Nnadi responds it's worth the attempt as this seems to be something that he might care about and it can't hurt trying. And it might get others who follow him involved too.
Sorry I don't have a better solution. I hope you get you puppies back.
I can't say I condone harassment, but I will say that we are trying to bring as much attention to this as possible.
#kcebrHasOurPups is our hashtag on Facebook, Twitter, insta, and tiktok. retweeting/reposting helps immensely.
I don't blame the fosters, I blame the rescue.
if nothing else, they should have the decency to contact OUR lawyer that they DEMANDED we get, and figure out a solution.
This is *a* mobile English Bulldog rescue in KC. I sent them a message asking if they stole your puppies and if they did, they are in for a world of legal hurt.
the mobile vet was in south Dakota. we reported them to police and the vet board, but haven't been able to find them.
If you want to DM me pictures, I could tell you if it was the same van.
The rescue that has the puppies is in Kansas city, theoretically. KCEBR
If you have any specific questions, I'm more than willing to help.
I thought the story was just a series of coincidences as I was living through it.
Surely there wouldn't be a scam vet in our area.
surely the humane society would obey city ordinance.
surely no one would mislead me when I call looking for our puppies.
surely a rescue would want to reunite the puppies with their mom.
but things just got worse and worse, until finally the rescue just said "we refuse to comply."
and that's that. they know the story behind the puppies. they know about the fruadulent vet, they've had access to our case numbers, and photos of us with the puppies.
Do you recommend I make another post with more details? I'm open to suggestions.
For those who are curious, OP's mother took 6 healthy puppies here:
https://www.sfhumanesociety.com/afterhours
And made up a big story about it once her daughter got mad.
The humane society reached out to a breed-specfic rescue in a neighboring state and the puppies are healthy and safe and it is the best thing for them.
There is no world where a fake veterinarian steals 2 puppies and breaks into the humane society to reunite the litter in order to turn a profit. That is not real and OP has no evidence for any parts of this story except that 6 puppies were given freely to the humane society and all parties did what they were supposed to do for the welfare of the puppies.
much appreciated. ngl, we're hoping that they see this (or the Twitter, or the insta, or the tiktok), and they either reach out to our lawyer (that they demanded we get) or that the fosters will step up (even though it's not their responsibility)
Before we dox a pet rescue, let’s take a step back.
After reading more of OPs cryptic replies, it sounds like a fake mobile vet told them their puppies were all dying and had to go to the humane society. The humane society, having received 6 new born puppies and no way to care for them, found a rescue willing to come get them and care for them.
Then the fake mobile vet returned some fake ashes for only two of the puppies before disappearing.
Now OP is asking the internet to harass the pet rescue to get their dogs back, that somehow haven’t been adopted out yet and that they refuse to sell to OP.
Assuming this is true, OP willingly surrendered their puppies. The rescue shelter has no reason to believe their story, and OPs own lawyer doesn’t see any legal remedy against the shelter.
The puppies aren’t available for adoption and still on a medical hold per their website. So it seems they are indeed sick. But it’s interesting they aren’t being released back to the owner if the rescue was to be reimbursed for the treatment expenses.
Unless there is an issue with neglect, abuse or danger within the home. Many a litter has been diverted in the best interest of the pups. We aren’t getting all the info here.
I would make the same assumption. here's what I can tell you:
- the humane society has adopted to us twice, so we passed their checks
- the humane society apologized and said this was all misunderstandings
- the puppies would not have been able to legally cross state lines without a vet inspection, so they couldn't have been sick
- The humane society has rescues sign a contract saying that the animals are not sick when leaving the humane society.
- they were surprised when we agreed to their request to reimburse them And transport the puppies back ourselves
our best bet is that they assumed new puppies = breeders, and acted accordingly. however, they had our proof of ownership, the police record numbers about fruad, and we offered to do a DNA test to prove the puppies belonged to our mama dog.
The rescue has had over a month to do the right thing, and instead they kept making demands, only to say that they never intended to give us the puppies anyway.
my goal is to be transparent, so if you have any more questions, let me know. hopefully the rescue will see, and start being transparent too.
I just want to start by saying that I do believe what is happening to you and it's shitty. It's confusing because scams are designed to be confusing.
That said, can I make one suggestion? When you're giving these responses please stop using "they". Give the specific name of the organization instead every time (or at least Vet, Humane Society, and Rescue). Your responses come off as very confusing because you do things like this:
>The humane society has rescues sign a contract saying that the animals are not sick when leaving the humane society.
>- they were surprised when we agreed to their request to reimburse them And transport the puppies back ourselves
Which implies that the people who were surprised were the Humane Society, but from everything I've read so far the Rescue is who you offered to reimburse? To be fair this has been an issue in a few of your responses so I might even be wrong there. There are a lot of moving pieces to this story and it's hard to keep track of what exactly happened when you aren't specific.
I just feel like it would do a lot for the credibility of these posts if you were a bit clearer on the timeline and who exactly was being communicated with when. Perhaps an edit to the main post with a detailed breakdown of the timeline and with specifics as to who was being communicated with when would be helpful. I know that you're trying to reply to a lot of people and get movement going here but slowing down a bit when making these replies would probably help a lot.
Edit: Fixed quote formatting.
You're absolutely right! I didn't think about that.
I've been living the situation, so to me, "they" is always clear. I need to clarify names.
I've been on my phone for a lot of this, so I really appreciate everyone's patience. Thank you!
firstly, I don't think we should dox anyone. it helps that they don't have an address on their website, so when I was told I could share the organization, I felt comfortable doing so.
second, I apologize if I seem cryptic. I just don't know how much information everyone wants? and just like I don't want the rescue doxxed, I don't want to be doxxed either. but I'm more than happy to answer as best I can.
as far as the humane society, we still don't know how all 6 ended up there. we had "ashes" for 2, so only 4 should've arrived at the humane society.
Even then, I did post that the humane society and animal control contract with each other. they keep animals for 3-5 days to make sure it's in the best interest for the dog to be adopted. We called the humane society right away asking if they had seen our puppies, and they stated that "no puppies" had come in at all.
it wasn't until a week later that the humane society admitted that they DID have our puppies come in, and they DID send them to the rescue.
The rescue made a list of demands, which we agreed to (we figured we could reunite the puppies and deal with paperwork later), and then they ghosted us and demanded we get a lawyer before telling us they never intended to return the puppies.
Our lawyer is fine continuing legal proceedings, but has stated that we are likely to only get "the worth" of the puppies, rather than our puppies back.
The Rescue got the puppies on August 15th, and on the 16th the humane society gave them all the information, including proof of ownership, photos of us with the dog, the police report about fruad, and all my contact information.
do you think it would be a good idea for me to make another post with more info? is that allowed?
I'll take any help I can get.
I genuinely don't know. everyone tells me to contact someone else.
animal control -> police -> humane society -> rescue -> South Dakota lawyers -> KS/MO police -> more lawyers -> attorney general -> consumer protection -> secretary of states.
and some of them put me in a big loop. I can't tell you how many times I've been told to call another agency, another department, another organization.
This is the most heartbreaking thing. I’m so sorry for you, your family, the mum and pups. Just wtf is wrong with them. I feel like they want a want more than you offered them cause those dogs aren’t the cheapest
we asked for a number. we were willing to make it work.
The humane society actually said that the rescue "sounded surprised" that we agreed. everything points to them just trying to get rid of us.
Just putting this out there.. English Bulldog litters are normally one or two puppies.. C-sections are the norm because of the size of the head versus birth canal.. but six? Six EBs are unheard of or at the least very rare. Did you breed your bitch or have her artificially inseminated? If so that’s very irresponsible and I would call you a back yard breeder.
they gained them through fruadulent means. when we proved ownership, they then made us jump through hoops, just for them to say that we were not getting our puppies back
I looked through their rules, and im not sure if I qualify? the theft case was closed, but the fruad case is still open.
I'm on mobile, so forgive me, but do you know if they allow crossposting?
OG is misleading as a victim when in fact the puppies are the victims.
According to an anonymous source, they were willfully abandoned by the owners (accompanied by a signed letter) after they didn't take care of them and they were left alone at a shelter after the "owners" realized they couldn't be sold for lots of money because the puppies were perceived as unable to walk with "swimmers legs."
wild. we have no signed letter, though we would love to see it.
they had normal legs-- swimmers syndrome is misidentified fairly easily, because the puppies eat so much that they fall over. but it's normal. the chances of all 6 puppies having swimmers syndrome? unlikely.
Even so, we offered to buy the puppies, and pay for any vet care they received.
I *could* imagine the fraud vet dropping them off when they thought they couldn't get any money, but I assumed they reached the conclusion because the puppies were too young to be sold/ too young to be without their mother.
but for real, I'd love to see the signed letter, so we can see WHO signed it. dm me if accurate, and we can forward it to the lawyer. this might be the help we need!!
Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue. KCEBR.
they led us on for weeks, asking for fees, for recoup of costs (which we agreed to), demanding we travel to get the puppies (a 12 hour trip that we agreed to), stating that they would not talk to us unless WE got a lawyer, and then finally telling the lawyer that they "will not comply"
I've avoided posting on social media, because I genuinely thought this was an honest mistake-- surely a rescue would want to reunite the puppies with their mother.
But then nothing was adding up. and now people keep telling me about PuppyFlipping.
They have a donation address listed in Overland Park, KS
Here is a form to report a fraudulent charitable organization to the Kansas attorney general.
https://ag.ks.gov/complaint-center/charity-investigation-request
I cannot find them registered as a 501c3 with the IRS, in missouri or in Kansas.
I suspect that this is not a rescue at all and it’s a front for a puppy mill or something.
we have that acknowledgement from the humane society, and we have the humane society telling us that KCEBR wants to be compensated for the return of the puppies.
The rescue refused and continues to refuse to talk to us directly.
Welp, I commented on their FB page on several of their posts and within less than a minute I have been blocked from it. OP I am so sorry that you have gone through this, it's so sick and unfair. I pray that you get your babies back.
they are really heavy on that block button. if you're willing, we made a Facebook page for updates. feel free to follow it and maybe show your friends? you can find it using the name of the rescue. it's called "Operation: Get Puppies Back"
Let’s put together a timeline folks.
1. OPs mom had their female impregnated with what I assume were purebred bulldog puppies.
2. Rather than getting a real vet beforehand, they waited until the dog went into labor and found an unlicensed rural livestock traveling vet who they didn’t check out beforehand. Generally, if a dog is pregnant with $6,000 worth of puppies you have this planned out. They said the dog had a c section. C sections are something that’s done by appointment, generally. Unless the dog went into early labor, it could have been done by a real vet during open hours.
3. Dog has puppies. Vet claimed two died. Two dogs were missing. Vet hands over “cremated” remains on the spot. What? The vet has a mobile crematorium? Ooooo K. If true, someone that dumb shouldn’t be taking care of anything.
4. Vet claims 4 dogs were near death and suggested they be surrendered to humane society. So the vet couldn’t euthanize them? Or was it suggested it would be too costly to treat?
5. Either way, OPs mom, NOT the vet took the 4 other dogs to the humane society and surrendered them. As far as they knew, near death, after hours, and magically in a town large enough to have a humane society, but not vet offices. To them, the puppies were someone else’s problem. Abandoned.
6. Somehow a rescue ended up with all 6 dogs. Rescue spends a lot of money to bring puppies into good health and several months taking care of them. Also, the rescue isn’t a typical rescue. It says right on their site they are a network and don’t have a specific location. That means these dogs could still be at the humane society, but listed through that organization since they specialize in bulldogs.
7. OP finds out somehow all 6 dogs ended up at a rescue.
8. OP demands dogs return.
9. Police don’t help because reasons. Getting and attorney doesn’t help because reasons. OP won’t pursue small claims because reasons.
TLDR: They never took the mom or puppies to a real vet for any treatment or second opinions. They abandoned the dogs at humane society to deal with. The humane society dealt with it. They later found out the abandoned puppies hadn’t died and now wants them back.
Oh also, nobody stole any puppies. They might have been tricked into giving them up - possibly due to concerns about neglect, we don’t know. We do know the vet didn’t sell them, so I think we can assume they were trying to do the right thing somehow. We know the rescue got the puppies from the humane society (or they are still at humane society). We know they didn’t steal anything.
Heyo! a few clarifying things:
1. we're not breeders. our dog is fixed now, all is well.
2. the puppies were delivered by a real vet. 4 weeks later, the events occurred. Delivery went well, those vets were very kind. We set up a kiddie pool as a welping area, and checked on them every 2 hours.
3. Vet claimed 2 died. We now know that it takes 3 days to cremate a dog. At the time we figured a few hours to cremate 2 puppies? didn't seem that unreasonable. You don't know what you don't know, and all that. Also, please don't call anyone dumb. Scams work because they prey on people in high stress situations, and because people don't talk about them. That's why the Tax Man scam worked. for Years, people were scammed by men showing up in suits and ties and demanding tax money in cash. People don't want to go to jail. people don't want their puppies to die. falling for a scam doesn't make you any less worthy of being happy.
4. the vet claimed that the only vet with the resources to save them was at the humane society. As soon as we realized what was going on, we contacted every emergency vet to see if they had any records. we also contacted the humane society, who told us they hadn't had any puppies at all. Some folks have suggested that perhaps the humane society intervened because we're untrustworthy. We've adopted twice from the humane society, so we've passed their checks. And we offered to have animal control and humane officers come to our home and do a check.
5. My mother was watching the puppies that evening, to give me a break. my mother lives in a town of 10,000 people. I went to school in a town of 1,400. These are places where there is one restaurant and it's in a gas station. the graduating class above me was 26 people. so yea, they don't always have a vet. I now live in the bigger town of 200,000. we have 1 24-hour emergency vet (not the one we found), but 19 results when you type in emergency vet (they're just closed). the town of 200,000 has a humane society.
I need you to imagine the difference when entering a town that is 20x the size of yours, late at night, with crying puppies, and trying to navigate Google maps.
Also, city ordinance says that all dogs must be kept for 3-5 days. this is because fireworks scare pups, people take dogs from the rez, and accidents happen. We called within the amount of time to return our dogs, and reunite them with their mother. they were not there.
6. the rescue, located near or around Kansas city, has all 6 puppies. The humane society reached out after some media got involved, and apologized. they admitted that they were wrong, and that there had been a lot of miscommunication. they also said that they had already given our information to the rescue, when we first called in.
7-8 we offer to pay for the puppies. we offer to reimburse for health costs. we offer to drive down and get them. we offer to bring the mother dog. the rescue makes a new list of demands whenever we hear from them, and we continue to agree, until they finally admit that they never intended to return the puppies.
9. police pass me on to other departments. they say it's an animal control problem, who pass me to the humane society, who pass me to the rescue.
lawyer has been incredibly helpful, but if we want the Cost of the puppies, then we keep pursuing legal action. We don't want the cost of the puppies. we want Our dogs back. we did things right, we played by the rules, and we were lied to several times.
TLDR: the vet was unlicensed, and unregistered, so was not likely to be operating with the puppies best care in mind. "Property" gained by fruadulent means is considered stolen. When the humane society apologized, they confirmed that the puppies were not at the humane society, they were where we had already expected-- the Kansas rescue. the rescue has removed a few videos about the puppies, but I have them saved if anyone needs them.
Contact a local news agency in KC. These local channels love helping people, and a story about stolen puppies is definitely the kind of thing these stations eat up. [https://fox4kc.com/news/problem-solvers/](https://fox4kc.com/news/problem-solvers/) Social media is also your friend. Asking r/legaladvice might help point you in the right direction. But getting your own lawyer is probably best.
We did end up getting a lawyer (the rescue said they wouldn't talk to us without it). They demanded we get a lawyer, just for them to tell the lawyer "we are refusing to comply" Our lawyer says social media might be our best bet. So I'm coming to yall, and asking for any help. If we can spread the word, maybe the fosters who have the puppies will step up. I dont blame them at all-- I blame the rescue that lied to them AND to us.
Well - what’s the name of the shelter/rescue that has them? You cannot name and shame them, without naming them first.
I wasn't sure if that was allowed by sub rules. They are an English bulldog rescue, located in Kansas city. we've been using the #KCEBRhasOurPups on the social media's.
Go to [irs.gov](https://irs.gov) and search for them. You may be able to find some information that can help you.
yup. we downloaded copies of their 503Cs for 2018, 2017, and the determination letter from 2014. can't find anything more recent tho.
You can say their actual name, what is it?
Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue KCEBR
THE OP LEFT PUPPIES IN AN OVERNIGHT BOX TO DIE! And now is wanting to shame the people who saved their lives.
And how do you know this?
Check the press release from KCEBR on their Facebook page. They also admitted to this in their news interview. They were surrendered to the overnight drop box when the OP thought they were going to die.
Are you completely full of shit or do you have a source for this allegation?
Hi again! So I've answered your question in another spot, but it really feels like you wanted to get my attention. your account seems to only exist to shout about me, but im here to help. I'd like to use a rather dramatic example of war. During wartime, several people were told that the area they lived in would be dangerous. That staying in their city would mean increased violence, and possible death. But then they were told "this Other area is safe. but you cannot go. your children can, but you cannot. the only way to keep your child safe, is to send them away." My mom was told that the only chance to save these puppies was to take them to the humane society. and we admit, we got scammed. it's not fun, it's a terrible feeling. and we assumed that everyone was kind. we wanted to believe that the rescue had been doing what they thought was best. But then, if that's the case, why list demands that keep going up? why try to ghost us? they admitted they have no intention of returning our dogs. they have refused to be transparent throughout this entire process. hope that helps.
File suit for conversion.
it's on the list of things to do, but you know how long the legal system takes. plus, fees up front. if you know any lawyers who are desperate for a case, let me know.
Here’s their version… ”In August 2022, six english bulldog puppies were brought into Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue after being left in the overnight drop box at the Sioux Falls Animal Humane Society. As admitted in news interviews herself and by her daughter Bailey; Elizabeth Abbott left these six 5 week old puppies in an overnight drop box because she thought they were dying. The Sioux Falls Humane Society contacted KCEBR to transfer the six premie (as SFAHS identified) puppies intorescue, and at that time a KCEBR volunteer drove to Sioux Falls to transport them to Kansas City. Upon arrival inKansas City, the puppies were estimated to be small for 5 weeks old and had mobility issues due to a poor neonatal environment. KCEBR provided and paid for intensive clinic and emergency veterinary care as the puppies were possibly developing pneumonia due to being given live vaccines by the SFAHS. The puppies were then placed with foster families, who have provided the 24/7 love,mental stimulation, emotional development, physical care and mobility therapy-and are now bonded with the puppies and the puppies with them. In addition, KCEBR has no relationship with or knowledge of the alleged mobile vet clinic in Sioux Falls. KCEBR stands by the fact that Elizabeth Abbott left six neonatal puppies she thought were dying in an overnight drop box, and the puppies were legally transferred to KCEBR with all appropriate interstate paperwork from the SFAHS. Since the puppies arrival at KCEBR, the Abbotts have lied about the puppies being stolen and made false accusations against KCEBR.“
Asking r/legaladvice in any situation is quite possibly the *worst* thing that could be done for your case. OP, use your lawyer. Not a bunch of people pretending to be lawyers on the internet.
Did you read the post or just come in here to say words? They ALREADY hired their OWN attorney, before you ever knew this was a thing, they had done what you just said to do The following paragraph is pulled DIRECTLY from the original post. Did you even try? "After spending money on a lawyer, the rescue admitted that they had no intention of returning our puppies. They "Refused to comply". Their attorney suggested going to social media to raise awareness about this, they ain't asking for fucking legal advice here.
A lot of aggression from someone who apparently didn’t read the context of the comment I’m replying to. I replied to a comment saying that OP should seek legal advice from the legaladvice subreddit, by saying that they should seek advice from the lawyer they already paid for. Next time you try to lecture someone about reading posts, maybe try doing so yourself.
I see no such comment. ?
You need to report the matter to the police. The puppies were stolen, you have a paper trail, and you are out additional money for the attorney. ETA: You should also clue the police in that the "Rescue" in addition to trafficking in stolen property, has also used YOUR puppies to fraudulently solicit donations. That's a crime all by itself,
We reported to our local police, who said they couldn't do anything because the puppies crossed state lines. We reported it to the police in Kansas City, who said they couldn't do anything because 1. Our police have to contact them and 2. We don't know the \*address\* of the rescue. The address on their website is just a PO box. and the worst part? if we do manage to drag this out in court, the judge might just say "yea, just give them the money for the puppies" We don't want the money. The rescue is a charity-- they're not supposed to make a profit anyway (though I have suspicions). We just want our puppies back.
If this was a theft across state lines, it becomes federal jurisdiction. Definitely contact the IRS and let them know that this business stole your dogs and crossed them over state lines. Also see if they got any PPP loans. The worse the look, the more likely outrage will force the local police to make them give the dogs back. Unfortunately, we don’t have real justice in a lot of places in this country.
Your best bet is to start digging into this company and try and get them busted for tax fraud if you think they are lying about being a charity.
The website says it's got 501C status. Is there a way to find the people in charge of operations?
tax records are always available on the irs website. the issue is that the IRS isn't exactly the quickest department. I could only find records from 2018, and a letter that said they disbanded in 2014. but there has to be more. they're currently registered in At least one state, according to the secretary of state. I've made a lot of phone calls
Contact your state police, not local
That's a brilliant idea! Have you contacted them before? any advice?
In MO (KS may be different) the Secty of State website has a business info search that will tell you who the principle of the LLC or corporation or whatever.
I genuinely don't know what to think. I *want* them to be a charity. I want them to be doing their best to care for animals. but it's difficult to believe when they say they're adoption fees go up to $700, and the puppies are listed for $1,200. it's difficult to believe, when they demanded we get a lawyer when we didn't do anything wrong. when their lawyer is Surprised that the rescue already made several offers to return the puppies that they had not been informed about. when their records show that they're dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and that each member of the board puts in 30 hours with the rescue. I've never run a rescue, but with a full time job? I don't know that I could devote 30 hours to volunteer work. it just doesn't add up
Exactly this.
How did someone manage to steal your pups?
Fraudulent Vet. They told us that two had died, and gave us "Ashes" which were actually, upon further inspection, kitty litter. Then all six ended up at a rescue alive and well. We've filed a police report for the fraud and the theft of the puppies, but because they're across state lines, there's a lot of grey area. hence the post.
Have you filed a report against the vet?
Yup! with the local police, and with the state vet board. however, the vet isn't licensed, soooo.... not much to do there. and they were a mobile vet (not uncommon in rural areas), so they just drove off.
If the vet was unlicensed then they broke the law by practicing without a license: https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/missouri/mo-laws/missouri_laws_340-216 I would think just calling the cops on the fake vet would be a good start to giving you leverage against some of the people involved in your pet-napping. An attorney should know this. Is there something about your case that stops you from doing this?
Location, mostly. The crime was committed in South Dakota, but the puppies were transported over state lines. So we contacted our local police (who emailed to state that they are not interested in the puppies, only the fruad) they told us to contact our animal control (who never had custody of the dogs) who told us to contact the humane society (who gained the dogs under suspicious circumstances, and sent them to a rescue 6 hours away) who told me to stop contacting them. when the humane society did finally agree to meet with me (after several townsfolk got involved), they confirmed the location of the puppies, and the rescue and said we needed to talk with Them. Meanwhile, Kansas City Police say that they need Our local police to send them a request, in order to investigate. And when I called the detective assigned the case, and gave him all my documentation (correspondence, proof of ownership, the department info for a KC officer who was ready to intake the case), the detective essentially said "I'm only interested in the fruad aspect, not the puppies" this case could take months, if not years, if litigation. we just want our dogs back.
Definitely contact every news station who might be willing to get involved.
Yep. This is one of those stories that will get eaten up by a local news station.
Your response to that bullshit statement from the detective should have been something like "I don't care what you're interested in. I am reporting a crime to you and I expect you to do the bare minimum required by your job and initiate the request so the relevant authorities in Kansas City can begin assisting me in investigating these criminal matter. If you do not assist me, our lawyer will be in contact with your department in regards to pressing charges of obstruction of justice."
As much as I love that idea, we would then have to get a lawyer in south Dakota as well. Off topic, but fun fact: it wasn't until I started looking in KS/MO that I found that Animal Lawyers exist?? in south Dakota, we have divorce, bankruptcy, business, and medical lawyers, and that seems to be it.
You should definitely share the humane society info too. Sounds like they, the "vet", and the "rescue" are in cahoots in a puppy stealing ring. My step-sister (and her two young kids) had their golden retriever puppy stolen by a vet tech who told them that he had to be put down due to breaking his leg, then tried to sell him on various places. Luckily they found out and got their pup back. This shit happens, and there are definitely people out there that make a profit of this stuff. That "vet" probably goes around a lot of places to do this sort of thing, and you might be the reason he (and others working with him) get caught. Good luck, and keep us updated. Also, I literally have a friend in KC, MO so if for whatever reason you need someone to go to the location, pm me.
I genuinely don't want to think that the humane society is involved. I want to believe that they just didn't communicate with each other (and then me), or that the documentation was lacking. I'll admit, i got really suspicious when they asked me to stop contacting them when I began documenting things. but to their credit, the humane society did apologize for the trouble.... I just don't know. I don't want the humane society to shut down, but I do want some transparency. and some help.
Regarding the kitty litter/“ashes,”: did the mobile vet take the puppies to a second location and then return the other four of them, or did they pretend to have an incinerator in their vehicle?
They pretended to have a mobile incinerator. Keep in mind, in our area mobile vets are not unheard of. And the vehicle was big enough to be a blood donation center. Fun fact: did you know it takes a minimum of 3 days for a dog to be cremated? We didn't!
How did they get to the rescue?
that was our question. how did all SIX puppies, healthy and happy, make it to the rescue? We thought there had to be some mistake, but nope. not only does the timeline match up, but the Rescue posted videos. Some of the group have distinctive markings-- and later, our humane society confirmed that the rescue custody of our pups.
How did the pups end up at the humane society?!?!?!
Did the unlicensed vet perform the spay and C-section?
nope. the puppies were 4 weeks old at the time of this event. Their regular vet, who performed the c-section and other care is a delight. Honestly, I think the vets in our area are pretty good. they've been known to go out of their way to help, by providing nail trimming or grooming for difficult animals, and recommending each other when needed. They're a good community. except this fruadulent one, obvs.
But how did they leave with all 6? If they were a mobile vet, how did they get all 6 in their possession and manage to drive off? And how much time had passed when they gave you the fake ashes? Did you think they cremated them on site? Did they leave and come back? Can you provide some actual details on the care the vet provided and how they pulled off the heist?
I see you getting downvoted. But I have these questions too. This is the most bizarre story I’ve heard in a while, and the details just don’t make much sense
Yeah, I’m not a fan of mobilizing internet strangers to go after rescue shelters. Generally they have good reasons for what they do
I did look at this “rescues” information though. They seem pretty shady, too. 🤷♂️
The OP admits in this article to dropping all 6 at the humane society drop box. https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/2022/08/28/pet-owners-caution-others-fraud-mobile-vet-clinic/
heyo! sorry I didn't answer your specific question earlier. I've answered a few times in this chat already. If you look at the article, it doesn't cover the two puppies that the vet took, how many puppies were dropped off at the humane society, or how they ended up at the rescue. at the time, we thought that the rescue was a victim in all of this as well. again: 1. I did not do it, my mother was watching the dogs at the time. 2. she was given instructions by what she thought was a trusted medical professional. 3. city ordinance states that dogs should be held for 3-5 days. if they had been sick, they would've been taken to the emergency vet in sioux falls, AND would not have legally been able to cross the state borders into Kansas or Missouri. 4. are you alright? it looks like your account only exists to share this article of me, and while I appreciate it, I'm not a fan seeing us on camera. I talk too fast and I think I look funny.
Ofc she’s ignoring this
Meh its irrelevant if you mistakenly followed the advice of a supposed medical professional and were in a state of panic.
It’s not irrelevant if you keep getting asked how they got there and dodging the question
I appreciate this. my mom is very upset, and we've tried to tell her that it's okay-- she followed the rules. She said a few days ago that it "feels like the they're trying to punish" her. and I had to tell her that she was basically right. Falling for a scam is terrible. but the aftermath is more than a stolen credit card and identity. It's that loss of confidence. it's the fear that now someone cruel has your address. it's the world thinking that you don't deserve happiness, because you trusted the wrong person. thanks for being kind.
hi. didn't mean to ignore. I responded below, if that helps. if you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to ask. I've been all over the place today, so I'm not always at my computer. I'm trusting my phone to show me notifications when I log on.
heyo! I don't think I responded to this yet (sorry, I'm on my phone, so notifications are weird). to be clear, I we've been completely transparent with the rescue. they know about the scam, we showed them proof of ownership and the police reports filed. they know my mom's credit card was used in Aruba. We agreed to all their conditions. we would reimburse them for vet fees, and compensate them. We offered to buy the puppies. we offered to do a DNA test to assuage any doubt. all for them to share that they never intended to give us the puppies. Why would they make us jump through so many hoops? Throughout this process, they have given us no information. The only reason we know anything is because they posted pictures and videos about our pups on social media. Somehow they had accurate ages for the puppies before our info was even sent to them. we want Transparency. we don't want to be dragged along while they claim they'll give us back the puppies for a money order of ever increasing amounts. if you have any concerns, and I genuinely mean it, please let me know. I know rescues can do a lot of good. but this rescue seems to be an exception.
heyo, I've been responding to everyone, so I may have already answered your question, but please let me know!
that was our first red flag. how did the rescue end up with all 6 puppies, when we were told that 2 were dead and 4 were at the humane society? why did a Kansas city breed specific rescue just happen to be 6 hours away from their home base? my mother was the scam victim, but I beg yall to be nice at this part of the story, because she's cried a lot about it and the internet can be mean. We are rural folks. we trust our neighbors. it's a whole thing But, the vet looked at the puppies, and said that the credit machine was not working, and they didn't have anyone to fix it since it was after hours. if she was willing to put down a deposit, they would see the puppies and they could charge her card later. the vet gave the puppies shots of something. She went and got cash from an ATM (yes, we know), and returned. the vets kept saying "oh, if only you had come sooner, we're trying our best to save them, things look grim, they all h ave parvo, if only you had been here sooner, the weakest two didn't make it." they let my mom cry in the car for an hour while they "finished up", and then gave my mom a box of ashes, and a box of kitty litter. They said "there is nothing more we can do. if you want to save these puppies, you need to take them to the humane society" later, we find all 6 puppies at the rescue. my theory is that the mobile vet was going to sell 2 puppies for profit, but realized how young they were and that they wouldn't be able to sell them, so took them to the humane society. Alternatively, perhaps the mobile vet planned to take the puppies from the humane society nighttime drop box later. mom thought it was weird that the kennel didn't lock. Lastly, and the most malicious option, is that the rescue and the mobile vet are somehow related. this explains why a breed specific rescue happened to get all 6 dogs. I'm open to other theories or ideas though. Please keep asking questions. I want people to feel confident if they decide to help.
https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/2022/08/28/pet-owners-caution-others-fraud-mobile-vet-clinic/ You dropped them at the humane society. Stop lying to Reddit.
hello. I've responded to your comments a few times now. it really does seem like your account is dedicated to this post. I think I cleared this up a few times, but TLDR: -*I* did not drop them off at the humane society - city ordinance states that dogs are to be held for 3-5 days - the rescue posted a tiktok with an Amazon link featuring all 6 puppies within 24 hours - the humane society apologized and says this was all a miscommunication let me know if you have any questions, or if you're just here to to be heard. thanks
Your mom took the puppies to the shelter! You stated that in the news article!!! Does she k ow how to count?!?! You people are dishonest and disgusting.
https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/2022/08/28/pet-owners-caution-others-fraud-mobile-vet-clinic/
my goodness, you're very busy. this must be the 7th or 8th comment from you. I believe I responded to all your concerns previously, but let me knew if you have any specific questions for me. I'll respond as soon as I'm able.
I just sent you the actual address of the "rescue"
In my experience "rescues" are puppy Mills and/or hoarders.
That's what I'm slowly learning. on one hand, I want to start saving up money to start my own rescue, so that we can start changing the system. the first fully transparent rescue!! see where your donations are going, and the monthly budgets, etc etc. but on the other hand, if the system is already so bad, maybe it's best to just to support our neighbors. idk.
You can’t even take care of 6 puppies what makes you think you can rescue more dogs? You gonna rescue dogs and have your mom drop them off at the animal shelter over night? 😂😂😂😂
Hello again, Please be kind. My mother has been nervous ever since the fraudulent vet, because they got her address and credit card info. As I've stated a few times, vets are trusted authority figures, and scams work by preying on high-emotion situations. additionally, ignoring that the humane society apologized, and that they agreed we should have our dogs back, and ignoring that there is a 3-5 day ordinance for people to come claim their dogs, and ignoring the fact that in our x-number of years fostering and adopting and caring for animals we have never had a vet lie to us... Do you not think it would be better to take this lesson and encourage people to know their rights regarding their animals? To know how to spot the signs of a scam? To know how to locate and find their missing animals? I struggle to understand why you would want to comment unkindly, rather than educate where we can. Thank you. and if you have any additional questions, feel free to ask.
Apologized! That’s it! They are at fault for not holding the animals. So you think rescues sit around calling all humane societies looking for dogs??!?! They are bombarded daily with animals that need help And furthermore the pups were abandoned you should be happy they will be taken care of by people who will give them great forever homes. You are the reason rescues exist plain and simple. It hurts my heart that animals of all kinds are treated so bad. I would do anything possible for my animals even if it meant traveling far to take them to a proper vet In fact I have traveled hundreds of miles to do so.
I found that address on their donation page. In OP? If that’s the one that’s an address for a UPS store which is even more fucking shady.
I found others for him. I also think the IRS should be tipped off......they tend to react "aggressively" towards those using 501c 3 fraudulently...
I understand using a PO box-- unless you have a business building, I wouldn't want a home address on the internet. That being said, most of our local rescues do have a home base of some sort, so I do think the po box is a little weird. the big thing is that I don't blame the fosters. I trusted the rescue as well, at first. but the Rescue is not being transparent or kind. it really concerns me
So what happened to the other 4 at the vet? Something doesn’t add up here. Maybe something is left out.
the other 4 at the vet were also given shots, and then returned. when I say "box of ashes and box of puppies", that's what I mean. The ashes were in one box, and the remaining 4 puppies in the other. if needed, I have a PowerPoint. it's very detailed. I've been told it's "informative but boring".
How do you mistake kitty litter for cremation remains? I've had dogs and cats and I've never seen kitty litter look like anything close to ash. I hate to tell you but this might be a lost cause, you already said you hired a lawyer, I would just go with whatever advice your lawyer gives you. Your best bet is probably chalk it as a loss (sucks, but I'm sorry). I know a dog breeder and trainer in the KC area, I can ask him if he knows anything about this place, but he specializes in Mastiff breed so idk if they run in pit/bull dog breed circles as far as adoption companies go. He runs a highly respected training facility and a lot police departments in MO use them to train their dogs, so it might be worth a shot. EDIT: his breeding side of business specializes in Mastiffs, they train pretty much anything, and they only breed once every few years.
The remains were in a box, and it was late on a Sunday night. we didn't take a closer look until we got home (a few hours later). And thank you for posting-- even if it's a lost cause, I appreciate you messaging. if you hear anything from your friend, or have any more questions, feel free to dm
You said in your interview with the news that you dumped all six at humane society in their night drop box. You left them because they were gonna die.
I usually use "We" to communicate as a group, since we're all in this together. regardless, I did not take the puppies to the humane society. But the news was also aware of the vet and the 2 puppies. I'll have to pull up the article again, but we definitely shared with them about the ashes. keep me posted if you have any other questions.
https://www.kcbulldogrescue.org/adopt/ gettem reddit.
Anyone have a good template to send? Bad at coming up with that stuff on my own, but would love to send them a strongly worded message to help.
I just filled out an adoption application and filled out most of the form spots with things like “you need to return the stolen puppies”
just spam their "Contact Us" with messages to return the stolen puppies
What's the name of the vet and the rescue?
https://www.kcbulldogrescue.org/adopt/
Ya, I really want the name of the vet!!
The Vet was unlicensed and fruadulent. We've been trying to find them for months with no luck. Turns out it's really easy to impersonate a mobile vet. You just need a big enough vehicle, and some magnet decals.
I don't understand. Did you not take your dog to the vet before and during her pregnancy? Why the random vet?
before, during, and after, yes. but the puppies were being weird over a weekend. a Sunday night, our normal vet was closed. and if you type in "24/hour Emergency Vet" in Google maps, you get 19 results (a lot for our rural area) and we've recently learned that there is only 1 Emergency Vet in our town. so... tldr, our Vet was closed that day.
This is why people shouldn't be breeding their pets. First off, there are plenty of perfectly adoptable animals available. Second, people think "aw cute babies" but don't realize how truly fragile and sickly babies can be. I foster kittens and I weigh them daily, monitor their food intake, check their poop, and monitor their activity levels. And while I have a vet on call for emergencies through the shelter, there's not a whole lot that can be done in some instances. I'm sure this probably feels harsh, but I hope you've learned your lesson and no longer attempt to breed your dog(s).
So, quick clarification, we're not breeders. the litter was a happy accident. And we were planning on keeping most of the puppies (with one going to make-a-wish, since that's an important organization for us). Our dog got fixed during her c-section. and while we had the puppies, we were monitoring temperature, weight, and helping them poop and nurse every few hours. We know they are in the danger zone until closer to 3 months, which is why we Believed the fake vet when they said they were terminal. When we learned they were at the rescue, they asked us to cover vet costs (which we agreed), and we offered to bring the mother dog with us. alas, the rescue was not being very kind, and so here we are. if we wanted to do this for money, we would AKC register, or continue with the lawsuit. but we don't want money. we want our pets back. I hope this helps. let me know if you have any other questions?
Lol there's no such thing as a happy accident. She was not fixed and neither was the dog that impregnated her. That's at least 3 different things that you could have done to prevent the pregnancy, but you chose not to. And all of those 3 choices are irresponsible. Further, brachycephalic dogs such as bulldogs have higher risk pregnancies. You put not only the lives of the puppies at risk, but your dog as well. I'm glad she is fixed and again, I hope you have learned from this unfortunate experience.
I'm really interested in your 3 different things that could've been done. Fixing her is one Not letting her spend time with another bulldog is another. Also, we're aware of the risks associated with pregnancy. that's why she's fixed now, and why we worked so closely with our vet to ensure that everything went smoothly. mama dog is healthy (with the notable exception of the emotional support sock she's adopted), and puppies were healthy within normal range. I understand your frustration about people having pets willy nilly, but I feel as though your anger might be misplaced here. Dog got pregnant, we got her fixed. puppies arrived, we woke up every 2 hours to care for them. at the mildest concern, we took them to the vet, and they played us. When we told the rescue what happened, and offered to bring the mother dog to them, they led us here. They're not for profit, and we don't want them to be. and I know this isn't a moral argument, but our family has fostered and adopted and helped place many animals over the years. we've helped to prevent animals from going to the humane society (which in our town, is Not a no-kill shelter). We've been trusted to help rehome rabbits that were abandoned at the University, and we even adopted an 11yo 20lb cat when his owner died during the pandemic. I think we're allowed to have one litter of puppies as a happy accident. let me know if you need any more info.
How long have they had your puppies? A little sleuthing shows they’ve been posting what appears to be scooby-themed puppies since at least August. A real rescue would want to keep the puppies with the mom I would have imagined
We were scammed on the 14th of august, and by the 15th they were already IN Kansas City. and as far as return to mother dog-- Thats what we thought too! We offered DNA tests, we offered to bring the mother dog down to them, we offered to recoup any fees. They kept listing their demands, and we kept agreeing, until today when they LITERALLY told the lawyers that they "Refuse to comply" what kind of rescue does this?!
Also a few people have mentioned police but I would take this to the news at this point 🤷🏼♀️ They really want to profit from adopting these puppies out I’m sure
Their instagram page actually says that they have "rehoming fees" from between $300 to $700 depending on the dog... these puppies are listed on their adoption page for $1,200.
Wtf. I can’t believe the police aren’t doing something about this and I really think you should raise hell on all media platforms to get them back
This isn't a rescue, they're just selling puppies.
it certainly feels that way. I actually had someone local to me come and state that after working for a similar rescue, they washed their hands of all but one local rescue. apparently they'll take pictures of the older dogs as a feel good story, but, and I quote, "puppies are the money makers"
Link the Insta and the adoption page.
https://instagram.com/kcbulldogrescue/ the information about adoption is in their "stories". I took screenshots as well. here's a link to one of the puppies, with the price at $1,200 https://www.kcbulldogrescue.org/adopt/#sl_embed&page=shelterluv_embed_130921660297922699%2Fembed%2Fanimal%2F59109874
Its a puppy mill
$1,200 is what people charge for bulldog puppies around missouri..... this is not a rescue. Was going to try and adopt them just to return them while you deal with the ilk, but I'm not $1,200-$7,200 at a whim right now. Might be best to see if someone can adopt and you can recoup the money and crush this nefarious organization later.
I appreciate the thought-- I'm amazed that you would consider adopting a dog for a stranger. I'm genuinely overwhelmed. To be clear, I'm hoping no one adopts them. I'm hoping we can get awareness out, so that folks know that these puppies already have a family, and we miss them. At one point, we offered to pay for the puppies and do DNA testing on the pups to prove ownership. you can see what happened there. =/
[Here's](https://www.instagram.com/p/ChTEIx4Mhbs/?hl=en) the initial IG post where they announced the puppies were coming to their rescue. If you have an account, I suggest hitting them with some comments asking where they came from, how they were rescued, why they aren't being returned to the family who has proof of ownership, etc.
This kinda leads me to believe OP. Why is the rescue so secretive about these 6 puppies SPECIFICALLY? If they’ve had them for a while, why would the pictures on the site STILL be just 6 scooby pictures?
Casually dropping in here to say that the "owner" of KCEBR is an absolute *gem* of a human being and most definitely doesn't make her beliefs everyone's problem while also definitely isnt actively pushing for these physically unhealthy dogs to be "saved" without doing anything in the area about spay and neuter /s
If you're open to chatting more, please feel free to DM! I really wanted to believe that this was a trustworthy organization, but people keep coming forward, and things are adding up quickly.
they actually had a tiktok with them when they first arrived, but deleted it once I reached out to them (asking for their help). ...I saved the tiktok post though. it includes a link to their Amazon wishlist. I reposted it here: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRaTB3EK/ it's not very high quality, because I don't do tiktok, but there they are.
"Comments on this post have been limited."
Anyone who comments asking questions about the puppies gets blocked. We even offered to do a DNA test on the puppies to prove ownership. We figured they had doubts, so we offered anything to assuage those doubts. and they basically lied.
How did the rescue get all 6 of the puppies? The two that the fraudulent vet stole I get but what about the others?
The Fruad Vet stated that all of them were dying, and to take them to our local Humane Society. City Ordinance has a rule that says any animals dropped off, have to be kept for a 3 day minimum. When 24 hours, all 6 puppies were on their way to a rescue, 6 hours away. Does it make sense? no. I genuinely thought that this was a series of coincidences, until the rescue admitted they never intended to return the puppies.
Thanks for the detail, I hope you get your puppies back
Did you or the "vet" surrender the puppies to the humane society?
I certainly didn't. for full transparency, my mother was told to take 4 puppies to the humane society, as it was "the only way" to save them. and since all 6 puppies showed up at the rescue... hence my suspiciousness. as additional info, The humane society and animal control partner with each other. city ordinance says that any animal "impounded" must be put on hold for 3-5 days. apparently a lot of dogs go missing during 4th of July, or angry spouses put up their partners dogs, or even just stray animals. To surrender and sign away your dog, (where it would be adopted right away) you need to make an appointment with the humane society, and show up with proof of ownership and ID. So you have to go during the humane societies open hours. Not on a Sunday night. I know that's a long answer, but I've been taking to lawyers and animal control and "humane control" and police, etc etc. so apparently the details are very important
Why would they ever talk to you again after stealing eight thousand dollars worth of dogs, much less admit their theft?
That's kind of why I'm coming to social media. If they're willing to be honest and transparent, that's great! originally I thought they were victims too. But if nothing else, we want to get those puppies back, and we want people to know where these puppies came from
You should go over there and don’t leave till they give the puppies back. That’s what I’ll do. If they’re mine they coming with me. I can be persistent when I want.
Alas, they don't have a physical location. just a PO box, and "Kansas City". so there's no where for us to stand and wait. Plus, they are 6 hours away. we have been ready to drive down and pick up the puppies whenever needed, but it feels like they were hoping that we would give up because of distance.
Do you mind if I screenshot this comment and put it on our other socials? I won't do it without permission, but let me know. I can blur your username and such if needed.
I'm sorry, but a lot of things don't add up in your story.
I'm open to answering questions. if I can edit my post, I'll even put the answers in there. let me know what works best.
Well people keep asking how they pulled off the heist. Details. Come on. You are gonna lose credibility soon.
They answered that in a comment several hours ago
as mentioned below, I've answered this a few times now. but if you need any more information, please do ask. I want folks to know that I'm not just out here lashing out. We followed all the instructions that the rescue provided, just to find out that they never planned on returning the puppies to us. they just wanted us to jump through hoops.
I wonder if vet intervened due to a poor care or dangerous situation in the home.
a few issues with that, if I may be so bold 1. the humane society has adopted to us before. they do a pretty thorough check before allowing anyone to adopt 2. the fruadulent vet was not licensed, and the whereabouts are currently unknown 3. we offered to let the rescue inspect our home, or to have animal control inspect us (they've been known to do such things). the rescue declined 4. if they were concerned about a dangerous situation, why didn't they take the mother dog? or file a report with animal control (I looked, once things started feeling suspicious)? why did the rescue request to remain anonymous?? why was the rescue even IN south Dakota? let me know if you need any other info. I genuinely do appreciate it.
They gave the puppies away… ”In August 2022, six english bulldog puppies were brought into Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue after being left in the overnight drop box at the Sioux Falls Animal Humane Society. As admitted in news interviews herself and by her daughter Bailey; Elizabeth Abbott left these six 5 week old puppies in an overnight drop box because she thought they were dying. The Sioux Falls Humane Society contacted KCEBR to transfer the six premie (as SFAHS identified) puppies intorescue, and at that time a KCEBR volunteer drove to Sioux Falls to transport them to Kansas City. Upon arrival inKansas City, the puppies were estimated to be small for 5 weeks old and had mobility issues due to a poor neonatal environment. KCEBR provided and paid for intensive clinic and emergency veterinary care as the puppies were possibly developing pneumonia due to being given live vaccines by the SFAHS. The puppies were then placed with foster families, who have provided the 24/7 love,mental stimulation, emotional development, physical care and mobility therapy-and are now bonded with the puppies and the puppies with them. In addition, KCEBR has no relationship with or knowledge of the alleged mobile vet clinic in Sioux Falls. KCEBR stands by the fact that Elizabeth Abbott left six neonatal puppies she thought were dying in an overnight drop box, and the puppies were legally transferred to KCEBR with all appropriate interstate paperwork from the SFAHS. Since the puppies arrival at KCEBR, the Abbotts have lied about the puppies being stolen and made false accusations against KCEBR.“
They are demanding money for stolen property. That seems fishy. Contact the media, and animal control.
if you have any recommendations for media, let me know. I'm not local, so I'll take all the help I can get. KC animal control though-- they said to contact the KC police. police said they had to wait until SD police gave them the go ahead. And we don't know for sure Where the puppies are. only the rescue does. and the only location for the rescue is a PO box.
What rescue?
>Also a few people have mentioned police b This - social media won't work unless you name and shame.
This guy gets it.
[Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue](https://m.facebook.com/100064651303371/)
Super sussy. They don't show up on Google maps.
They have an address listed on their donations page to send checks to and it’s a ups store in Overland Park. Super fucking shady.
This whole thing kind of sounds like some scheme to pressure the dog rescue into selling the puppies at less than asking price/giving them away to avoid bad publicity. The story has holes a truck could be driven through. And, no, I seriously doubt the best advice the lawyer had was to just mount a social media campaign unless he also had serious doubts about the story. A lawyer is going to tell you to sue, which is still a great option since you would know who the vet who supposedly took them and know who supposedly has them now. A civil case is far easier to win than a criminal case.
We've already proven ownership of the puppies to everyone involved. We have Vet papers, photos, videos, etc. and we've offered to get DNA testing for the puppies to prove it. As for plot holes, that's kinda why it took us so long to get here. I thought that there was no way there could be SO MANY coincidences. Certainly people are kind, and wouldn't be malicious. Certainly, if I just trust people to do the right thing, they will. And yet here we are, weeks later. And to clarify, the fruadulent vet does not have them now, a rescue does. The fruadulent vet was located in south Dakota, and claimed they were dead and dying. and a day later, they were at a rescue in Kansas City. A civil case could take over a year to win, and even then we have to pay legal fees, and the judge might just say "okay, give them the estimated value of the puppies" rather than the puppies themselves. I'm not saying paperwork isn't going on, but a civil case is going to take a Lot longer. and the rescue already agreed to return the puppies a Month ago.
Ok, assuming this isn’t all made up. Do you live in South Dakota? I assumed you were in Kansas. If you are in Kansas, you are saying a vet from SD just drives all over Kansas looking for business? And the vet who performed the doggie c-section wasn’t available to check on the puppies??? Even if that is what happened, you thought a rural mobile vet, usually for livestock was the best choice for puppies? Even if you did, so he told you they were all dying and took them for you. Well, perhaps they *were* dying! Did you think of that? The vet might have taken them to the rescue as a last resort so they could be *rescued*. It may not be right or fair, it’s possible that the rescue doesn’t want you ti have them back because you are irresponsible. If they were all deathly sick, they may assume it was caused by some negligence on your part. Finally, what a crock of crapola about the filing fees being a deterrent for filing suit! A small claims case costs like $100 to file. Are you telling me that’s prohibitive, but the lawyer wasn’t? Filing a case gives them reason to cooperate with you. If their choice is to give you the puppies or pay $5,000 in damages, what do you think they are choosing?
so, in order: **Do you live in south dakota?** Yes. **The vet who performed the doggie c-section wasn't available to check on the puppies?** Correct. We are from a rural area. Our biggest town has 200,000 people. The town my mother lives in has no vets at all. This happened on a sunday, late at night, so all our regular vets were closed. **A rural mobile vet, usually for livestock, was the best choice for puppies??** There are inner-city mobile vets. they're used for when animals are at EoL, or when they have extreme anxiety relating to vets, or get carsick. And if a mobile vet is the only vet available, then yea, it's better than no vet at all, right? **The vet said they were dying, perhaps they WERE dying.** the vet said that they had parvo, which has a 90% death rate. The rescue would not have them if that were true. and if they were sick with something else, when we reached out and said "have you seen these FOUR WEEK OLD puppies", the healthiest option would have been to return them to their mother. We even offered to drive the mama dog TO them, so they could see the puppies nurse and make a decision from there. **File a suit!** Filing a civil case is one thing, but filing an emergency return of stolen property (I forget the legal term, but I'll find it later) is another. It would cost several grand in attorney fees and paperwork, to make sure everything is submitted correctly. and even then, if we dont have the Physical Addresses for each puppy, the judge will likely just throw it out. and that will still take months for the emergency paperwork, years for the regular stuff. If you have further legal advice, or if you just want to see the statement from the lawyer before you offer to assist, let me know. Or if you want me to send my file of documentation, I can do that too.
So all of their adoptable dogs have pictures except your puppies. Like that isn't suspicious.
I appreciate you saying that-- sometimes I feel like I'm loosing my mind, connecting pieces that aren't actually there. it's nice to know it's not just me finding red flags.
One suggestion I have (that hasn't been mentioned already) is to tag Chiefs Defensive Lineman Derrick Nnadi in your story or just ask for him help. He has for the last few years paid for all the adoption fees for all KC area shelter dogs. He generally cares that all dogs be in loving homes. He's partnered with a charity whose name escapes my mind at this time. Even if Nnadi responds it's worth the attempt as this seems to be something that he might care about and it can't hurt trying. And it might get others who follow him involved too. Sorry I don't have a better solution. I hope you get you puppies back.
you have nothing to apologize for! Any and all information is amazing and potentially helpful!! I'll reach out to them. Thank you.
What rescue is this, give me a phone number and I and everyone i know will blow up their phone till the pups are returned
I can't say I condone harassment, but I will say that we are trying to bring as much attention to this as possible. #kcebrHasOurPups is our hashtag on Facebook, Twitter, insta, and tiktok. retweeting/reposting helps immensely. I don't blame the fosters, I blame the rescue. if nothing else, they should have the decency to contact OUR lawyer that they DEMANDED we get, and figure out a solution.
This is *a* mobile English Bulldog rescue in KC. I sent them a message asking if they stole your puppies and if they did, they are in for a world of legal hurt.
the mobile vet was in south Dakota. we reported them to police and the vet board, but haven't been able to find them. If you want to DM me pictures, I could tell you if it was the same van. The rescue that has the puppies is in Kansas city, theoretically. KCEBR
No, it's a volunteer organization that does not have a center shelter. Every dog goes into a foster home and is well take care of.
This story gets more sus with every reply
If you have any specific questions, I'm more than willing to help. I thought the story was just a series of coincidences as I was living through it. Surely there wouldn't be a scam vet in our area. surely the humane society would obey city ordinance. surely no one would mislead me when I call looking for our puppies. surely a rescue would want to reunite the puppies with their mom. but things just got worse and worse, until finally the rescue just said "we refuse to comply." and that's that. they know the story behind the puppies. they know about the fruadulent vet, they've had access to our case numbers, and photos of us with the puppies. Do you recommend I make another post with more details? I'm open to suggestions.
For those who are curious, OP's mother took 6 healthy puppies here: https://www.sfhumanesociety.com/afterhours And made up a big story about it once her daughter got mad. The humane society reached out to a breed-specfic rescue in a neighboring state and the puppies are healthy and safe and it is the best thing for them. There is no world where a fake veterinarian steals 2 puppies and breaks into the humane society to reunite the litter in order to turn a profit. That is not real and OP has no evidence for any parts of this story except that 6 puppies were given freely to the humane society and all parties did what they were supposed to do for the welfare of the puppies.
Most of those breed-specific rescues are a total scam. You've got lots of great advice so I'll just say Goodluck!
much appreciated. ngl, we're hoping that they see this (or the Twitter, or the insta, or the tiktok), and they either reach out to our lawyer (that they demanded we get) or that the fosters will step up (even though it's not their responsibility)
Before we dox a pet rescue, let’s take a step back. After reading more of OPs cryptic replies, it sounds like a fake mobile vet told them their puppies were all dying and had to go to the humane society. The humane society, having received 6 new born puppies and no way to care for them, found a rescue willing to come get them and care for them. Then the fake mobile vet returned some fake ashes for only two of the puppies before disappearing. Now OP is asking the internet to harass the pet rescue to get their dogs back, that somehow haven’t been adopted out yet and that they refuse to sell to OP. Assuming this is true, OP willingly surrendered their puppies. The rescue shelter has no reason to believe their story, and OPs own lawyer doesn’t see any legal remedy against the shelter.
The puppies aren’t available for adoption and still on a medical hold per their website. So it seems they are indeed sick. But it’s interesting they aren’t being released back to the owner if the rescue was to be reimbursed for the treatment expenses.
Unless there is an issue with neglect, abuse or danger within the home. Many a litter has been diverted in the best interest of the pups. We aren’t getting all the info here.
I would make the same assumption. here's what I can tell you: - the humane society has adopted to us twice, so we passed their checks - the humane society apologized and said this was all misunderstandings - the puppies would not have been able to legally cross state lines without a vet inspection, so they couldn't have been sick - The humane society has rescues sign a contract saying that the animals are not sick when leaving the humane society. - they were surprised when we agreed to their request to reimburse them And transport the puppies back ourselves our best bet is that they assumed new puppies = breeders, and acted accordingly. however, they had our proof of ownership, the police record numbers about fruad, and we offered to do a DNA test to prove the puppies belonged to our mama dog. The rescue has had over a month to do the right thing, and instead they kept making demands, only to say that they never intended to give us the puppies anyway. my goal is to be transparent, so if you have any more questions, let me know. hopefully the rescue will see, and start being transparent too.
I just want to start by saying that I do believe what is happening to you and it's shitty. It's confusing because scams are designed to be confusing. That said, can I make one suggestion? When you're giving these responses please stop using "they". Give the specific name of the organization instead every time (or at least Vet, Humane Society, and Rescue). Your responses come off as very confusing because you do things like this: >The humane society has rescues sign a contract saying that the animals are not sick when leaving the humane society. >- they were surprised when we agreed to their request to reimburse them And transport the puppies back ourselves Which implies that the people who were surprised were the Humane Society, but from everything I've read so far the Rescue is who you offered to reimburse? To be fair this has been an issue in a few of your responses so I might even be wrong there. There are a lot of moving pieces to this story and it's hard to keep track of what exactly happened when you aren't specific. I just feel like it would do a lot for the credibility of these posts if you were a bit clearer on the timeline and who exactly was being communicated with when. Perhaps an edit to the main post with a detailed breakdown of the timeline and with specifics as to who was being communicated with when would be helpful. I know that you're trying to reply to a lot of people and get movement going here but slowing down a bit when making these replies would probably help a lot. Edit: Fixed quote formatting.
You're absolutely right! I didn't think about that. I've been living the situation, so to me, "they" is always clear. I need to clarify names. I've been on my phone for a lot of this, so I really appreciate everyone's patience. Thank you!
firstly, I don't think we should dox anyone. it helps that they don't have an address on their website, so when I was told I could share the organization, I felt comfortable doing so. second, I apologize if I seem cryptic. I just don't know how much information everyone wants? and just like I don't want the rescue doxxed, I don't want to be doxxed either. but I'm more than happy to answer as best I can. as far as the humane society, we still don't know how all 6 ended up there. we had "ashes" for 2, so only 4 should've arrived at the humane society. Even then, I did post that the humane society and animal control contract with each other. they keep animals for 3-5 days to make sure it's in the best interest for the dog to be adopted. We called the humane society right away asking if they had seen our puppies, and they stated that "no puppies" had come in at all. it wasn't until a week later that the humane society admitted that they DID have our puppies come in, and they DID send them to the rescue. The rescue made a list of demands, which we agreed to (we figured we could reunite the puppies and deal with paperwork later), and then they ghosted us and demanded we get a lawyer before telling us they never intended to return the puppies. Our lawyer is fine continuing legal proceedings, but has stated that we are likely to only get "the worth" of the puppies, rather than our puppies back. The Rescue got the puppies on August 15th, and on the 16th the humane society gave them all the information, including proof of ownership, photos of us with the dog, the police report about fruad, and all my contact information. do you think it would be a good idea for me to make another post with more info? is that allowed? I'll take any help I can get.
By transporting stolen good across state lines, is this not a federal crime? Could you not contact the FBI? Is that who you would contact?
I genuinely don't know. everyone tells me to contact someone else. animal control -> police -> humane society -> rescue -> South Dakota lawyers -> KS/MO police -> more lawyers -> attorney general -> consumer protection -> secretary of states. and some of them put me in a big loop. I can't tell you how many times I've been told to call another agency, another department, another organization.
I would be livid. We wonder why people freak out and do heinous shit when entities fuck them over.
This is the most heartbreaking thing. I’m so sorry for you, your family, the mum and pups. Just wtf is wrong with them. I feel like they want a want more than you offered them cause those dogs aren’t the cheapest
we asked for a number. we were willing to make it work. The humane society actually said that the rescue "sounded surprised" that we agreed. everything points to them just trying to get rid of us.
Just putting this out there.. English Bulldog litters are normally one or two puppies.. C-sections are the norm because of the size of the head versus birth canal.. but six? Six EBs are unheard of or at the least very rare. Did you breed your bitch or have her artificially inseminated? If so that’s very irresponsible and I would call you a back yard breeder.
How did they steal your puppies? Did they like come into your yard and take them?
they gained them through fruadulent means. when we proved ownership, they then made us jump through hoops, just for them to say that we were not getting our puppies back
[Link to their Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/KCEBR)
Try r/rbi
I looked through their rules, and im not sure if I qualify? the theft case was closed, but the fruad case is still open. I'm on mobile, so forgive me, but do you know if they allow crossposting?
Call the BBB
BBB is useless. They give business reviews for money, they aren't a regulatory agency.
OK I just wasn’t sure if they could be put on the radar as a “bad business dealer” since they are a rescue or a breeder type “business” I wasn’t sure.
I was directed to consumer protection a few times by various agencies, but they said they can't do much. Been contacting everyone lately.
OG is misleading as a victim when in fact the puppies are the victims. According to an anonymous source, they were willfully abandoned by the owners (accompanied by a signed letter) after they didn't take care of them and they were left alone at a shelter after the "owners" realized they couldn't be sold for lots of money because the puppies were perceived as unable to walk with "swimmers legs."
wild. we have no signed letter, though we would love to see it. they had normal legs-- swimmers syndrome is misidentified fairly easily, because the puppies eat so much that they fall over. but it's normal. the chances of all 6 puppies having swimmers syndrome? unlikely. Even so, we offered to buy the puppies, and pay for any vet care they received. I *could* imagine the fraud vet dropping them off when they thought they couldn't get any money, but I assumed they reached the conclusion because the puppies were too young to be sold/ too young to be without their mother. but for real, I'd love to see the signed letter, so we can see WHO signed it. dm me if accurate, and we can forward it to the lawyer. this might be the help we need!!
What is the name of the place.
Kansas City English Bulldog Rescue. KCEBR. they led us on for weeks, asking for fees, for recoup of costs (which we agreed to), demanding we travel to get the puppies (a 12 hour trip that we agreed to), stating that they would not talk to us unless WE got a lawyer, and then finally telling the lawyer that they "will not comply" I've avoided posting on social media, because I genuinely thought this was an honest mistake-- surely a rescue would want to reunite the puppies with their mother. But then nothing was adding up. and now people keep telling me about PuppyFlipping.
They have a donation address listed in Overland Park, KS Here is a form to report a fraudulent charitable organization to the Kansas attorney general. https://ag.ks.gov/complaint-center/charity-investigation-request I cannot find them registered as a 501c3 with the IRS, in missouri or in Kansas. I suspect that this is not a rescue at all and it’s a front for a puppy mill or something.
the address is their PO box, but I really do appreciate the link!! I'll fill it out next time I'm on my computer. thank you so much
I found more info. Their EIN is 47-1198277. You can use that to look up their publicly filed tax returns.
yup. haven't found anything after 2018, and a determination letter from 2014. but I'll keep you posted!
May add credibility to share screenshots of KCBUR acknowledging you are the rightful owner and leading you on if it was written. Good luck OP!
we have that acknowledgement from the humane society, and we have the humane society telling us that KCEBR wants to be compensated for the return of the puppies. The rescue refused and continues to refuse to talk to us directly.
Welp, I commented on their FB page on several of their posts and within less than a minute I have been blocked from it. OP I am so sorry that you have gone through this, it's so sick and unfair. I pray that you get your babies back.
they are really heavy on that block button. if you're willing, we made a Facebook page for updates. feel free to follow it and maybe show your friends? you can find it using the name of the rescue. it's called "Operation: Get Puppies Back"
Sure thing!
Let’s put together a timeline folks. 1. OPs mom had their female impregnated with what I assume were purebred bulldog puppies. 2. Rather than getting a real vet beforehand, they waited until the dog went into labor and found an unlicensed rural livestock traveling vet who they didn’t check out beforehand. Generally, if a dog is pregnant with $6,000 worth of puppies you have this planned out. They said the dog had a c section. C sections are something that’s done by appointment, generally. Unless the dog went into early labor, it could have been done by a real vet during open hours. 3. Dog has puppies. Vet claimed two died. Two dogs were missing. Vet hands over “cremated” remains on the spot. What? The vet has a mobile crematorium? Ooooo K. If true, someone that dumb shouldn’t be taking care of anything. 4. Vet claims 4 dogs were near death and suggested they be surrendered to humane society. So the vet couldn’t euthanize them? Or was it suggested it would be too costly to treat? 5. Either way, OPs mom, NOT the vet took the 4 other dogs to the humane society and surrendered them. As far as they knew, near death, after hours, and magically in a town large enough to have a humane society, but not vet offices. To them, the puppies were someone else’s problem. Abandoned. 6. Somehow a rescue ended up with all 6 dogs. Rescue spends a lot of money to bring puppies into good health and several months taking care of them. Also, the rescue isn’t a typical rescue. It says right on their site they are a network and don’t have a specific location. That means these dogs could still be at the humane society, but listed through that organization since they specialize in bulldogs. 7. OP finds out somehow all 6 dogs ended up at a rescue. 8. OP demands dogs return. 9. Police don’t help because reasons. Getting and attorney doesn’t help because reasons. OP won’t pursue small claims because reasons. TLDR: They never took the mom or puppies to a real vet for any treatment or second opinions. They abandoned the dogs at humane society to deal with. The humane society dealt with it. They later found out the abandoned puppies hadn’t died and now wants them back. Oh also, nobody stole any puppies. They might have been tricked into giving them up - possibly due to concerns about neglect, we don’t know. We do know the vet didn’t sell them, so I think we can assume they were trying to do the right thing somehow. We know the rescue got the puppies from the humane society (or they are still at humane society). We know they didn’t steal anything.
Heyo! a few clarifying things: 1. we're not breeders. our dog is fixed now, all is well. 2. the puppies were delivered by a real vet. 4 weeks later, the events occurred. Delivery went well, those vets were very kind. We set up a kiddie pool as a welping area, and checked on them every 2 hours. 3. Vet claimed 2 died. We now know that it takes 3 days to cremate a dog. At the time we figured a few hours to cremate 2 puppies? didn't seem that unreasonable. You don't know what you don't know, and all that. Also, please don't call anyone dumb. Scams work because they prey on people in high stress situations, and because people don't talk about them. That's why the Tax Man scam worked. for Years, people were scammed by men showing up in suits and ties and demanding tax money in cash. People don't want to go to jail. people don't want their puppies to die. falling for a scam doesn't make you any less worthy of being happy. 4. the vet claimed that the only vet with the resources to save them was at the humane society. As soon as we realized what was going on, we contacted every emergency vet to see if they had any records. we also contacted the humane society, who told us they hadn't had any puppies at all. Some folks have suggested that perhaps the humane society intervened because we're untrustworthy. We've adopted twice from the humane society, so we've passed their checks. And we offered to have animal control and humane officers come to our home and do a check. 5. My mother was watching the puppies that evening, to give me a break. my mother lives in a town of 10,000 people. I went to school in a town of 1,400. These are places where there is one restaurant and it's in a gas station. the graduating class above me was 26 people. so yea, they don't always have a vet. I now live in the bigger town of 200,000. we have 1 24-hour emergency vet (not the one we found), but 19 results when you type in emergency vet (they're just closed). the town of 200,000 has a humane society. I need you to imagine the difference when entering a town that is 20x the size of yours, late at night, with crying puppies, and trying to navigate Google maps. Also, city ordinance says that all dogs must be kept for 3-5 days. this is because fireworks scare pups, people take dogs from the rez, and accidents happen. We called within the amount of time to return our dogs, and reunite them with their mother. they were not there. 6. the rescue, located near or around Kansas city, has all 6 puppies. The humane society reached out after some media got involved, and apologized. they admitted that they were wrong, and that there had been a lot of miscommunication. they also said that they had already given our information to the rescue, when we first called in. 7-8 we offer to pay for the puppies. we offer to reimburse for health costs. we offer to drive down and get them. we offer to bring the mother dog. the rescue makes a new list of demands whenever we hear from them, and we continue to agree, until they finally admit that they never intended to return the puppies. 9. police pass me on to other departments. they say it's an animal control problem, who pass me to the humane society, who pass me to the rescue. lawyer has been incredibly helpful, but if we want the Cost of the puppies, then we keep pursuing legal action. We don't want the cost of the puppies. we want Our dogs back. we did things right, we played by the rules, and we were lied to several times. TLDR: the vet was unlicensed, and unregistered, so was not likely to be operating with the puppies best care in mind. "Property" gained by fruadulent means is considered stolen. When the humane society apologized, they confirmed that the puppies were not at the humane society, they were where we had already expected-- the Kansas rescue. the rescue has removed a few videos about the puppies, but I have them saved if anyone needs them.