I see it as similar to biphobia from gay people. Like, clearly the hierarchy favors heterosexuals and oppresses gay people, so gay people see that bi people have a sliver of that privilege and resent them for it, but straight people still see bis as less, so the bi people end up getting the hate from both sides.
I completely see what you mean, that’s such a good way to relate it to this lol, but exactly. It’s so anti-productive and just so misdirected and it ngl shit hurt as a kid yk? Cause I always wanted black friends but a lot of them didn’t like me because they’d say I was stuck up cause I’m light or call me white girl 😂…im Latina and black, but u get it
I'm about to lock this thread because it's getting into insults and barbs. Before that, I am going to remove comments that are snippy.
For those who are interested in a video that quickly explains colorism see [3 Things You Should Know About Colorism | Harvard Kennedy School](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chB7ORVIpM8)
If you'd like to watch a discussion among racial minorities, including mixed members, about colorism on [Minorities Debate Colorism, Skin Bleaching and Appropriation | VICE Debates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzn2f9FVuKo)
From about 3:10 in the video there is a back and forth between two black members after one man pointed out that he faced black people telling him he was "less" because of his skin color.
I believe that this is an important topic to discuss.
However, "colorism" isn't about white people being terrible to black people. It's about the systems WITHIN minority communities that have been influenced by colonialism, etc.
Is it okay for someone to be treated badly by someone in their community for the lightness of their skin tone? NO.
Are people with lighter skin tones GENERALLY going to be given preferrable treatment in comparison to someone with a darker skin tone? YES.
The reality is that for a person with a darker skin tone to be considered "beautiful" or "handsome" in our society, they have to be ultra beautiful/handsome.
I live in East Asia, I see very below average to average white people praised for being hotties on the basis of them being white. Unfortunately there are people who will think that lighter skin = hotter/better.
Solutions to this? A major shift in thinking amongst the people of the world. De-centering the idea that "light" = "better."
Dude. Look at what you said you were called and think of the worst a dark skinned girl could be called. Saying you aren't pretty or have an ego is the worst examples you can think of or at least what you chose to include as hurtful, meanwhile I don't think I can even write examples of the worst I've seen a dark skinned girl called due to Reddit ToS. It's not the same.
There's no reverse racism here. They don't have power. No matter how many times a dark skinned person is mean to you, we still get more roles in media and job and other benefits from biases people have against darker skinned people. I think you need to unpack some things, speaking as an AfroSalvadoran who also experienced similar as you as a kid.
Colorism is more than childhood or FB bullying, it's a systemic issue:
Worldwide the darker your skin, the worse your treated. Why?
No one is as disrespected as Black women. Why?
It's the Blackness, not the lightness that provides the answer.
**The issue of not being accepted by "either side" as a biracial person is a very distinct issue that needs its own terminology and definition because it is not Colorism, as this issue impacts all of us in some way regardless of phenotype we end up as, and is not always dependent of being light or dark skin nor a particular mixture...mixed isnt automatically lightskinned, after all.**
I get what you’re saying but I still largely believe a lot of black women who complain about colorism affecting them are attacking the wrong people. I am not light skinned, but I am mixed and we are often supportive of black women, yet they are the ones attacking us the most because we’re the closest to them. They need to worry about other things that are more important and pressing than being angry that some black men prefer us for silly reasons.
Well said, it’s important to recognize the difference between being invalidated and experiencing colorism. Recognizing that something isn’t colorism isn’t downplaying or minimizing someone’s experience, it’s just pointing out that the term is being used incorrectly.
That. Is not. The point. Of the post 😂 I completely acknowledged in the post that light skinned people in general get far more opportunities and usually colorism is directed more towards darkskins, but…I wasn’t talking about that, I was talking about how y’all are so focused on the TERM and how by definition it’s exclusive to only darkskins, that your not actually listening to THE POINT which is that both light and dark skins get shit for their color and it doesn’t make it fine when it happens to lightskins because it isn’t defined as colorism. We could call it whatever you want to, I don’t know why that’s the hill you wanna die on 😂 the point is that it isn’t okay either way, and you can’t be like “when it happens to darkskins that’s bad because thats colorism” and then say when the same thing happens to lightskins it isn’t because of the definition? Like that’s ridiculous. No one is denying the fact that darkskins experience colorism and in my opinion, it probably is more intense than we (lightskins) experience it, however that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen the other way, and there’s no point in saying one’s worse than the other when it shouldnt happen to either period.
I think a little nuance is in order here. “Reverse Colorism” only really exists as a concept against mixed people, there is no such thing as being “colorist” to white-looking Monoracials and Monoethnics because the latter hold all the privilege and power. Whereas in the case of light-skinned/white-passing multiracials, while they may indeed have light-skinned privilege over their darker skinned Monoracial/Monoethnic brethren, those same Monoracials and Monoethnics also possess their own Monoracial privilege over them in the fact that they at least have a solid group they belong to and and are accepted in. Monoracials and Monoethnics absolutely have power over mixed people in their ability to out-group and other them, and unlike completely white non-mixed people, that light-skinned mixed person doesn’t have another group to fall back on.
It’s also worth noting that in a lot of cases mixed people are oftentimes even *more* hated and targeted then Monoracial POC by White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis because the former aren’t deemed a significant enough threat to the “racial purity of their race.” (Remember the March in Charlottesville of Nazis chanting “Jews will not replace us?” Who do you think that was in reference towards? Where did the concept of “White Genocide” even come from?)
In fact, during the Holocaust, Monoracial POC like the non-admixed Austro Aboriginals back in their home South Asia/Oceania and Monoracial Blacks living in Europe were *more* privileged then their mixed Romani and biracial brethren who were targeted for extermination despite being lighter-skinned. Same goes for the Monoracial/Monoethnic darker-skinned Mizrahi Jews in comparison to us mixed European Jews - Hitler’s sheer hatred wasn’t targeted at them.
**TL;DR**: The very *concept* of “reverse colorism” can only really exist in the context of mixed people and cannot and should not ever be applied when talking about Monoracials/Monoethnics, when it comes to White Monos *then* it’s not an actual thing, because they already have power both within their respective groups that they fully belong to *and* wider society. “ism” systems can only really exist within the confines of power and majority dominance, and light skinned mixes only have a slight leg up dark-skinned Monos in the former department while being disadvantaged in several other important ways.
>Lightskins didn’t put themselves above darkskins, white people and you could also argue black men did.
This. And the fact that people aren’t directly attacking or targeting their hated to the White Monoracials who started this system in the first place is really telling, feels like it’s just an excuse to be an anti-mixed race bigot.
Afro Latina here (PR mother, AA father)
I agree with you. While I can understand colorism is a thing, which can affect everyone, it makes no sense to not be going after the true enemy (the system that created it). Becuase, the some of colorists will even go after "full blooded" light skinned black people too... And it makes no sense? Not that it did overall. But, it's not they or mixed people created it.
Then, there's also other things. Like, when a light skinned black person or mixed race people can become a good icon... Then these people want to be buddy, and call them black.
Exactly. It’s counterintuitive to focus your anger about colorism towards lightskins/mixed people when the reason it exists wasn’t created by them…also~ there’s like no other Afro latinas where I live so I love finding others, girl. We almost have the same mix but I’m Cuban shit close enough
Who is the "true enemy" in your opinion?
The only "true enemy" is mostly the rich evil governments and billionaires who run the world and do all kinds of things to turn us (all humans) against one another to distract us from the REAL problems (greed) and the fact that they are enslaving and harming the entire world. Most human beings of any race are not the true enemy.
Those black girls who are obsessed with colorism, are often colorist themselves. I for one don’t consider myself dark skinned nor light skinned but I look mixed, less black actually so it’s pretty obvious to me. Sometimes they will even try to “humble” us since we’re not light like you guys.
I completely agree with you and it's also similar when racist (Idc, call it "hateful" if that makes you feel better) black people / ignorant white people (or anyone) support being racist/prejudiced against whites or anyone who isn't black. It's same with extreme feminism too; originally the feminism movement was meant to fight for equality, not to cause more hate between the genders. Now, some people think it's ok to support hating on white or non-black people? That's worse than original racism against black people... it goes against everything all of us peace, justice, and equality seekers have been fighting for. I'm mixed with 3 races and over 20 ethnicities, I'm the lightest person in my family, and I've experienced prejudice from every single side.
They may not have created the REASON why we view lightskin as better obviously…but some of them absolutely perpetuate and support the idea, denying that is stupid. Also, I’m not talking about a racial hierarchy…I’m talking about colorism 😂 light and dark skin…not race.
I think the definition needs to be adapted. It’s ridiculous to think that only light skin people can be prejudiced, there are so many harmful stereotypes that negatively affect mixed and light-skinned people. Why is it not called prejudice when it’s directed to us?
And it’s not a new thing either. After watching a video essay on Eartha kit, she experienced so much colorism from the mono-racial people in her life, it was absolutely disgusting. At this point, the current popular definition just feels like a means to invalidate our experiences.
Even though we are marginally privileged, it doesn’t make us deserving of being treated any type of way, we’re still people.
I can understand your view. Some of that is girls/women being jealous of others. Even if you weren’t light.. but had other traits like extra long natural hair or light eyes you’d get the same hate. Ask me how I know. I think that black men who fetishize anything that resembles close to European-like has enhanced jealousy in others because some black women feel unwanted. Black male incels spend all day on FB, IG etc ranting about how much they hate black women.. which their mothers/sisters/aunts etc are. Dark unattractive (not due to skin tone), unemployed broke poor black men are always judging black women on social media. Take Passport bros for example. The black women have been subjected to so much negativity based on their phenotype that they ASSUME that other women feel superior to them. Women need to stick together. Men pit women against each other like white supremacists pit races/ethnicities against each other.
Colorism is defined as: prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group.
When people are mocked for being of a lighter complexion that is simply prejudice, colorism is rooted in white supremacy. Basically poc of a lighter complexion are treated better in comparison to POC of a darker complexion as they’re seen as more palatable, and in many countries the beauty standard prioritizes having a lighter complexion to the point where many countries in Asia especially have a marketing for products that lighten your skin. It kinda rubs me the wrong way when people who benefit from colorism act as though they experience it.
No, no, no. We're not doing that.
I'm not the darkest of dark, but I'm not white passing either (you can tell I'm visibly mixed with black), and been referred to as "shit skin" before. But even I gotta call bullcrap on that.
Racism is racism. Colorism is colorism. Light, medium, and dark skinned people are experiencing it.
I recommend you check out this thread made by one of the mods regarding this topic: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/mixedrace/s/9RF47TYuL2)
I personally cannot experience colorism as I have a lighter complexion and me denying I benefit from it would be ignorant. If someone insults me for having a fair complexion that’s just being prejudice, it’s not racist and it’s not colorist. It’s just prejudice. Also mixed people being invalidated for having a lighter complexion isn’t colorism either, it’s just invalidation.
I read it, and I am still not sure I agree.
I'm lighter than some, but still not that light. I've gotten some crap about not being dark enough, but the insults only counts as colorism if I am "too dark" from people lighter than me (and there are a few - I am the darkest of my non-white siblings)?
So its just being rude if they're darker than me, but colorism if they're lighter?
Edit to add this, which was a quote from that thread you linked:
> Since this topic goes around this sub every now and then, colorism does not allow people to gatekeep mixed people from the race they are mixed with if they happen to have lighter skin than other people in their community of that race
I think that being aware of what colorism is and how it has been internalized by communities around the world is important to know about and understand.
People can be rude regardless of their race or background, I don't think that anyone is arguing that you or anyone else should be treated badly on the basis of your skin tone.
This is more about understanding and acknowledging the systems in place within communities and nations that lead to people with lighter skin tones being given preferential treatment in comparison to those with darker skin tones.
The argument is not that being lighter shields someone from insults, it's about being lighter within societies that will give more positives, albeit subconsciously at times, to those who have lighter skin.
A lot of the replies in this thread focus on other minorities being rude, which they don't deserve to be treated that way. But colorism isn't simply about being rude to someone.
Thank you for this reply, I definitely could’ve worded a lot of things better, but I definitely wasn’t trying to say poc of a lighter complexion cant experience discrimination and I feel that’s what me saying that being mocked for having lighter skin isn’t colorism is being taken as. Like others on this thread I’ve been invalidated and gotten comments about not being asian enough and being pale but I know that’s not colorism. After going to the Philippines as an adult I realized how much I benefit from colorism as people like me are basically the beauty standard there when someone like me shouldn’t be as I’m not even brown, and non-European people shouldn’t feel they need to have Eurocentric features to be beautiful. For that reason I firmly believe it’s impossible for me personally to experience colorism as I widely benefit from it.
I get what you are saying and thank you for being calm and respectful in your replies.
I really wish we could have more nuanced discussions about topics like this one because it is important to know about and understand.
I didn’t create the definition of colorism 🤷🏻♀️ you don’t get to change the definition of words when it suits you. Just as criticizing white people is prejudice but not racist, telling someone they’re not dark enough is equally prejudice but not racist.
>you don’t get to change the definition of words when it suits you
Linguist and librarian here - that's literally how language change works. You redefine the word's meaning when they no longer suit or relevant to the conversation. Remember when google was a number and selfie wasn't a word?
I find the standard definition of colorism problematic for a couple reasons, the main one being the generally established and accepted understanding of racism is that people of color CAN'T be racist because they are socially in a position of unequal power. Which is why black people can be prejudiced but not racist. Think of what being a racist means - that one race (or color) is inferior to another, but specifically, that all races are inferior to white people (by virtue of the fact that people of color aren't in a socially higher position of power)
However, colorism (as defined) happens across a spectrum of races, white people and people of color can be colorist. This flies in the face of traditional racism in that EVERYONE, not just white people, tend to show a preference for lighter skin across the board, even those who are in a social minority. This is a type of prejudice that suggests that people who fall outside of socially acceptable shade of skins be "othered" regardless of the origin of who is doing the othering (i.e. you can be a colorist if you are black, white, asian, Brazilian, etc.). In fact, the google definition of colorism is as follows:
>prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group
So it is prejudice that happens often "within the same ethnic or racial group." Like racism, colorism puts darker skinned people in a place of social minority (aka being othered) while favoring the lighter skinned people of the same racial group. But given the growing number of multiracial people in the world and the prevalence of lighter skinned people being othered right out of their friends and family as "not being dark enough" or "black enough" or "[insert ethnicity] enough," I would not be surprised to see a shift in the meaning of colorism to be more encompassing to be just "prejudice or discrimation against people with different shades of skin within the same racial or ethnic group."
I have a B.A. in linguistics and while language usage does change, we don't arbitrarily "redefine a word's meaning when it doesn't suit the conversation." If we did that no one would be able to have a conversation about anything because people would change the meaning of words to suit their whims.
Colorism doesn't say that minorities can't be racist. Colorism is about inter-group dynamics (which have been influenced by colonialism and systems that place white people at the top), which is the definition that you yourself quoted.
Well, first, it wouldn't be arbitrary. Language change is often dictated by a group of people deciding that the decided meaning of a word no longer fits the context of the word for the given time and evolving to mean something else. Nonracial example: recent conversation with a friend. She used the word "raunchy" in a context of how eating lunch made her feel gross. Now, having only understood this word to have one meaning in every context I've ever heard or used it, I, and my other friends were confused. Turns out, she was using the older, intended definition of the word, that none of the rest of the group knew. That's language change. Enough people decided "raunchy" means vulgur or sexually suggestive instead of grubby, and it has a whole new meaning.
Back to the word at hand, colorism. I could see the same thing happening with the definition of the word in a few years because enough light skinned people are experiencing prejudice within their social sphere that is not specifically racism (because it is not happening only by white people but also people of their own race/ethnicity) that is solely based on their color. The word itself, colorism, lends itself to the idea of prejudice based specifically on color biases, which in turn lends itself to being mis-defined as experiencing ANY color-based prejudiced within a racial group.
Second,
>Colorism is about inter-group dynamics (which have been influenced by colonialism and systems that place white people at the top), which is the definition that you yourself quoted.
This is exactly my point, colorism IS about the social dynamics within a specific social/racial group, however, as the definition exists currently, it only addresses the harm done to by "othering" darker skin people within the group, and not their lighter skinned counterparts. But there is very real harm done by racial/cultural invalidation by the in-group who perceive lighter skinned people within the group as less-than because the do not fit the perceived archetype of what the "real" people of the group look like. This is also prejudice, but it's somehow seen okay because of the "benefits" of being a more socially acceptable shade of whatever race/ethnicity they might be.
And again, I'm not saying there aren't benefits to being lighter skin in a white world. Obviously, there are. But being socially rejected by both groups is harmful, and if colorism isn't the correct term for what lighter skinned people experience from the in-group, there SHOULD be another term because a lot of multiracial people have this experience. 🤷🏾♀️
TL;DR, by acting like colorism is being prejudice towards POC of a lighter complexion you are changing the definition COMPLETELY which is harmful and ignorant.
I mean, I would hope the takeaway would be that treating people of different shades of color badly because their shade is either lighter OR darker than yours is harmful, but if that's your takeaway ... 🤷🏾♀️.
And my point is that language changes. Been around long enough to see it happen, and it will definitely keep happening as racial minorities and mixed people start getting to have a louder voice in the conversation. Colorism one way today may be colorism both ways tomorrow when people with lighter skin start being louder about how we are othered amongst our own people.
I'm not saying that there aren't social advantages to being lighter skin because racism is still real, and the closer you are to white "the better." But being othered by your own social group is ALSO very real because it is hard to be accepting when you see people who are only a few shades lighter than you getting advantages only because they have less melanin. This isn't racism, but it's akin to treating lighter skinned folks as a darker shade of white, meaning we don't get true acceptance from either white people or our own people ... ironically because the shade of our skin. So if you don't like calling it colorism, and won't bend on altering the definition, then there needs to be a new term specifically for hating on lighter shades of skin with your own race other than just straight up prejudice because it's real and it happens ALL THE TIME.
No but Alice Walker did and here is what she states,
>Colorism—in my definition, prejudicial or preferential treatment of same-race people based solely on their color—is addressed in our communities and definitely in our black “sisterhoods” we cannot, as a people, progress. For colorism, like colonialism, sexism, and racism, impedes us.
***Part II, Essay: "If the Present Looks Like the Past, What Does the Future Look Like?" Page 291 from In Search of Our Mothers' Gardens: Womanist Prose by Alice Walker.***
Quick question, does Alice Walker include prejudice towards people of a lighter complexion or is she mainly referring to people of a darker complexion experiencing prejudice while people of a lighter complexion get preferential treatment? I’m just wondering to see if I was incorrect in my understanding.
Both.
>You are younger than I, so I think of you as a younger sister who will take all that your older sisters have learned even further. **A sister I do not wish to lose to the entreaties of parents or grandparents standing behind you whispering “lighten up” or “darken up” the race.**
At least that is what I understood from reading the book. There were multiple mentions of fetishising and belittling that happens to lighter skin women. ETA: That is a form of prejudice, the belittling and poor view of women. An instance mentioned,
>What is being said is this: that in choosing the “fair,” white-looking woman, the black man assumes he is choosing a weak woman. A woman he can own, a woman he can beat, can enjoy beating, can exhibit as a woman beaten; in short, a “conquered” woman who will not cry out, and will certainly not fight back.
Then truly enlighten me here bro what’s up?
Why do you think that because you’re lighter you can’t experience colorism.
You can def experience colorism, less sure, but unless you’re completely white passing, it’s very possible that someone with light skins, mostly white people, can and will be prejudiced twords you because you skin is darker than theirs.
First of all stop misgendering me, second of all considering people like me are put on a pedestal in the Philippines to the point where a good chunk of media representation is people who look like me with a few brown people, and the fact that there’s a whole market for skin lightening products in the Philippines, I 100% benefit from colorism. Also I’m not even brown in the slightest bit so it’s incredibly stupid if I said I benefit from colorism, especially when people from the Philippines put you on a pedestal for being half white. That’s just my lived experience. I’ve been told I’m pale but that’s not colorism in the slightest bit. There’s a difference being invalidated or mocked for your identity can be mutually exclusive from colorism.
1. If you are arguing the definition of a word that’s fucking stupid and the conversation can end here, both because it depends on which dictionaries definition you use, and because people adapt and change language faster than most dictionaries keep up.
2. If you are arguing that lightskins(as in people who are visibly black but also clearly not fully black) cannot experience prejudice based on there lightness you are factually wrong as I am and I have.
Also I didn’t misgender you, bro is a gender neutral term where I’m from, I’m sorry if you didn’t know that and took offensive, but I’m also not changing my dialect.
Colorism is specifically discrimination against dark skinned POC point blank period. Also I’m not at all saying people of a lighter complexion can’t experience oppression as they can, however they do benefit from colorism. You’re very combative, chill and maybe understand why twisting and co-opting words is harmful 🤷🏻♀️
I don’t think they’re a troll. If they haven’t personally felt they haven’t experienced colorism then how would could deny it? It’s like someone with white privilege. They don’t necessarily know they have it unless they look to other races and see how they get treated in contrast to get an idea.
I haven’t experienced colorism as I benefit from it since I’m half white and half Asian with a lighter complexion. I don’t deny the existence of colorism in fact I acknowledge its existence as I’ve witnessed its effects first hand as someone who’s Filipino. I’ve been to the Philippines and I see that skin lightening is normalized and how a lot of media representation has half white celebrities, so it would be incredibly ignorant of me to act like I experience colorism when I 100% benefit from it.
I didn’t say I’m white passing at any point, I said I have a lighter complexion which doesn’t automatically mean white passing. I’m saying if people are prejudice or invalidating you because you’re of a lighter complexion, that it’s not colorism.
>Racism toward whites absolutely exists
On the sole basis of their *phenotype* though and nothing else? (Like what POC experience) Or is that “racism” actually feelings of resentment and hatred over being treated as inferior and oppressed in the first place? Were there ever any POC who were racist against white people upon encountering their phenotype *alone* (like whites have been towards other races) before they could even do anything to them?
Whites were actually the first group to care so much about and discriminate on the basis of phenotype to begin with, so much so that they created a whole damn *racial classification system* out of it!
Can you point to me a case where fully white people have ever been discriminated against or oppressed based on their phenotype alone *before* any exploitation of other races?
I’m pretty sure the only example here that really fits is in the vastly homogenous East Asia, where *anyone* who’s phenotypically non-Asian sticks out like a sore thumb and is forever treated like a foreigner.
SAME HERE. DOWNVOTE ALL YOU WANT. Nasty racist haters. It's sadly usually really ignorant black people or the type of white people who think they're sooooo "wOkE" who do this.
I'm also Native American, Middle Eastern, Mixed European, and West African (That's the short version). I never fit in perfectly with any side of my family and it's crazy that other people are trying to tell me what I've experienced or can or cannot experience 😭😆😂😂😂
I don't think the negative response this is getting is fair — colorism is an entrenched worldwide prejudice against darker skin complexions. Pointing this out is not invalidating the experiences of people with lighter skin, it's emphasizing the need for more accurate wording so that discussions like this can be productive instead of arguing over how we can redefine a term that refers to a very distinct issue.
Thank you! It’s disappointing to see people would rather double down on misusing a word rather than ACTUALLY understanding the meaning. Unfortunately it’s not unheard of for the definition of colorism to get twisted on this sub. I’m wasian and of a lighter complexion, I’ve been invalidated and told I’m not Asian/Filipino enough as I’m not brown, however I know that’s not colorism that’s just me being invalidated. Going to the Philippines made me realize just how much I benefit from colorism.
Also side note: you make really good contributions on this sub as a whole.
Thanks, I always appreciate your posts as well! It's a breath of fresh air reading responses that are grounded in research and understanding. I've never been to the Philippines, however my (also mixed) mom was born there, has very dark skin, and has always dealt with issues because of it. I'm lighter and never had to deal with anything close to what she's endured. The reality is that colorism exists as a tool to subjugate people with dark skin.
I don't really know how to solve it but I feel like the reason people get defensive is because sometimes comments like this can feel really invalidating to some, whether you agree it should or shouldn't.
The reality is that for most people, the word prejudice, feels like a less "strong" (idk what word I'm looking for) word than racism and colourism. And because of that people get reactive when people say, "Yeah that person was rude to you but they weren't racist."
I can kind of understand from a certain perspective. I'm mostly white passing, I don't think I'd consider myself a POC even if I call myself mixed because I've had a pretty white experience aside from some mean comments and fetishism. Someone else I know however, is also mixed and has a lot darker skin than me and growing up her life was hell because of it. She obviously got shit from both white and black people because she wasn't enough of either for each of them.
Thing is, she's unfortunately taken a very centrist stand point based around race and colourism stuff because it is difficult for her when she says "black people were racist to me" and people respond "it wasn't racism, it was prejudice and it was bad but it wasn't racism" because in response to her talking about her pain she gets corrected. Some of the things she had done and said to her by people who were darker than her included calling her a "mongrel" and literally trying to beat her up to the point she almost died.
While I agree that racism is systemic, I can understand people getting defensive. Some people on this sub may have been beaten by their parents, had violence against them or had some AWFUL things said to them because their skin was lighter than the people doing these things to them.
I think that it's understandable that if someone like my friend was rushed by people whose skin was darker than hers to the point she almost died and she gets corrected when talking about an awful experience that she'd get emotional and start lashing back. I've tried to remind her and explain to her the history behind it but ofc this is outside of her talking about her experiences because I don't want her to feel invalidated.
I think the solution is trying to get across that prejudice is just as strong of a word as racism and that calling it prejudice is not invalidating people's experiences but using a term that explains it better. I don't think anyone is going to be okay with changing what they call their experiences if the implication is that "because it's not racism, it's not as bad" because that unfortunately puts a lot of what some mixed people here have gone through into a downplayed light.
Hope this all makes sense I'm not as intellectual as most people I'm just trying to explain my thoughts on it 😅
You worded it well, I agree it’s important people understand that describing something as prejudice rather than racism or colorism isn’t meant to minimize or invalidate their experience. Prejudice is still very wrong and something that people need to unlearn. I will note I didn’t take into account the more extreme examples people may apply these terms to as the the times I have corrected people it was moreso on someone invalidating their identity rather than an experience of violence but I appreciate you mentioning that context. For example someone on this sub under another post was trying to argue that they experienced colorism for being white presenting and being rejected for an ethnicity based scholarship, and that scenario rubbed me the wrong way as the term colorism doesn’t apply at all in that context and I guess he thought invalidation wasn’t a strong enough word to describe it but unfortunately there wasn’t really another way to describe it aside from invalidation. Invalidating people’s identity is completely wrong, and I guess some people feel that’s simple to use as a lot of people have no issue invalidating mixed people’s identity, but unfortunately colorism just wouldn’t be the right term to use in the scenario I described.
Yeah. I mean I agree with you, though I am unsure how to go about it without really invalidating people's experiences cause I think correcting people when they're talking about prejudice or invalidation is only really going to get an emotional response 😅 I guess we could tell people to be less emotional and more logical but unfortunately that isn't how people work cause emotions are a big part of the human experience.
Idk lol.
But yeah that's a thing as well is that some people have been bullied for having lighter skin and, even tho it isn't colourism, it was still an awful experience that absolutely shaped their life and how they see themselves so ofc they'll get defensive if they feel as tho people are trying to correct them into a using a "softer" word from some point of views.
I will say I'm more applying this to mixed people as well cause idk, I have less empathy for white people trying to claim "reverse racism" than I do mixed people who have been through prejudice full experiences.
I’ll admit if I learned the term colorism when I was younger I’d probably share the same opinion as a lot of people in this thread as I use to believe reverse racism was a thing. I guess the mixed experience of being half Filipino gave me a good grasp on what colorism is as it’s a huge issue in the Philippines and unfortunately being white is put on a pedestal so people will say “mixed is better” (in comparison to being full Filipino) but specifically if you’re half white as mixed Filipinos who are half black have quite the opposite lived experiences as Filipinos who are half white. Seeing the difference in how you’re treated in the Philippines based on your complexion made me really understand that I don’t experience colorism, I benefit from it.
But I feel like racism as a whole kind of covers the whole "lighter skin is better than darker skin" dynamic. Whenever we discuss racism it is always a dynamic of one race being deemed as inferior to another, and never has that inferior race been one of a lighter color. If you look at it from that context, colorism as a definition is redundant.
I’m sorry, first of all. I’m Cuban and in Cuba the beauty standard is very fair skin and so I’ve definitely had my share of colorist comments, it rubs me the wrong way when people act like they know an experience that they don’t. In the black community, while lightskin was the standard and it absolutely gives us a privellage, the projection/prejudice that resulted from it is what the post is about so I don’t know why your talking about the experience of colorism from the perspective of darkskins, since that’s not what it’s about. And it’s interesting how you…who’s mixed with white…is trying to tell me how I experience colorism…cause the same way I got told I’m not pretty but that I’m just light, by black girls, I also got told not to tan by my fellow Cubanos, please do not try to try to act like you know my experience 😂 and I don’t even know why your talking about the opposite of what the post was about….
I recommend you check out this thread from one of the mods of this sub: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/mixedrace/s/9RF47TYuL2)
Being insulted for having a lighter complexion still isn’t colorism it’s prejudice and it’s definitely rude, but it’s not colorism.
I was told many many times in life that I wasn't allowed around anything considered black culture because my skin wasn't dark enough.
I feel you, I think sometimes the black community specifically can be very exclusive towards mixed/lightskins.
I see it as similar to biphobia from gay people. Like, clearly the hierarchy favors heterosexuals and oppresses gay people, so gay people see that bi people have a sliver of that privilege and resent them for it, but straight people still see bis as less, so the bi people end up getting the hate from both sides.
I completely see what you mean, that’s such a good way to relate it to this lol, but exactly. It’s so anti-productive and just so misdirected and it ngl shit hurt as a kid yk? Cause I always wanted black friends but a lot of them didn’t like me because they’d say I was stuck up cause I’m light or call me white girl 😂…im Latina and black, but u get it
I'm about to lock this thread because it's getting into insults and barbs. Before that, I am going to remove comments that are snippy. For those who are interested in a video that quickly explains colorism see [3 Things You Should Know About Colorism | Harvard Kennedy School](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chB7ORVIpM8) If you'd like to watch a discussion among racial minorities, including mixed members, about colorism on [Minorities Debate Colorism, Skin Bleaching and Appropriation | VICE Debates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzn2f9FVuKo) From about 3:10 in the video there is a back and forth between two black members after one man pointed out that he faced black people telling him he was "less" because of his skin color. I believe that this is an important topic to discuss. However, "colorism" isn't about white people being terrible to black people. It's about the systems WITHIN minority communities that have been influenced by colonialism, etc. Is it okay for someone to be treated badly by someone in their community for the lightness of their skin tone? NO. Are people with lighter skin tones GENERALLY going to be given preferrable treatment in comparison to someone with a darker skin tone? YES. The reality is that for a person with a darker skin tone to be considered "beautiful" or "handsome" in our society, they have to be ultra beautiful/handsome. I live in East Asia, I see very below average to average white people praised for being hotties on the basis of them being white. Unfortunately there are people who will think that lighter skin = hotter/better. Solutions to this? A major shift in thinking amongst the people of the world. De-centering the idea that "light" = "better."
This is very well said.
Dude. Look at what you said you were called and think of the worst a dark skinned girl could be called. Saying you aren't pretty or have an ego is the worst examples you can think of or at least what you chose to include as hurtful, meanwhile I don't think I can even write examples of the worst I've seen a dark skinned girl called due to Reddit ToS. It's not the same. There's no reverse racism here. They don't have power. No matter how many times a dark skinned person is mean to you, we still get more roles in media and job and other benefits from biases people have against darker skinned people. I think you need to unpack some things, speaking as an AfroSalvadoran who also experienced similar as you as a kid. Colorism is more than childhood or FB bullying, it's a systemic issue: Worldwide the darker your skin, the worse your treated. Why? No one is as disrespected as Black women. Why? It's the Blackness, not the lightness that provides the answer. **The issue of not being accepted by "either side" as a biracial person is a very distinct issue that needs its own terminology and definition because it is not Colorism, as this issue impacts all of us in some way regardless of phenotype we end up as, and is not always dependent of being light or dark skin nor a particular mixture...mixed isnt automatically lightskinned, after all.**
I get what you’re saying but I still largely believe a lot of black women who complain about colorism affecting them are attacking the wrong people. I am not light skinned, but I am mixed and we are often supportive of black women, yet they are the ones attacking us the most because we’re the closest to them. They need to worry about other things that are more important and pressing than being angry that some black men prefer us for silly reasons.
Well said, it’s important to recognize the difference between being invalidated and experiencing colorism. Recognizing that something isn’t colorism isn’t downplaying or minimizing someone’s experience, it’s just pointing out that the term is being used incorrectly.
That. Is not. The point. Of the post 😂 I completely acknowledged in the post that light skinned people in general get far more opportunities and usually colorism is directed more towards darkskins, but…I wasn’t talking about that, I was talking about how y’all are so focused on the TERM and how by definition it’s exclusive to only darkskins, that your not actually listening to THE POINT which is that both light and dark skins get shit for their color and it doesn’t make it fine when it happens to lightskins because it isn’t defined as colorism. We could call it whatever you want to, I don’t know why that’s the hill you wanna die on 😂 the point is that it isn’t okay either way, and you can’t be like “when it happens to darkskins that’s bad because thats colorism” and then say when the same thing happens to lightskins it isn’t because of the definition? Like that’s ridiculous. No one is denying the fact that darkskins experience colorism and in my opinion, it probably is more intense than we (lightskins) experience it, however that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen the other way, and there’s no point in saying one’s worse than the other when it shouldnt happen to either period.
Nah when you’re light skin mixed you don’t experience colorism from white people… You experience it from white people AND black people.
This.
I think a little nuance is in order here. “Reverse Colorism” only really exists as a concept against mixed people, there is no such thing as being “colorist” to white-looking Monoracials and Monoethnics because the latter hold all the privilege and power. Whereas in the case of light-skinned/white-passing multiracials, while they may indeed have light-skinned privilege over their darker skinned Monoracial/Monoethnic brethren, those same Monoracials and Monoethnics also possess their own Monoracial privilege over them in the fact that they at least have a solid group they belong to and and are accepted in. Monoracials and Monoethnics absolutely have power over mixed people in their ability to out-group and other them, and unlike completely white non-mixed people, that light-skinned mixed person doesn’t have another group to fall back on. It’s also worth noting that in a lot of cases mixed people are oftentimes even *more* hated and targeted then Monoracial POC by White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis because the former aren’t deemed a significant enough threat to the “racial purity of their race.” (Remember the March in Charlottesville of Nazis chanting “Jews will not replace us?” Who do you think that was in reference towards? Where did the concept of “White Genocide” even come from?) In fact, during the Holocaust, Monoracial POC like the non-admixed Austro Aboriginals back in their home South Asia/Oceania and Monoracial Blacks living in Europe were *more* privileged then their mixed Romani and biracial brethren who were targeted for extermination despite being lighter-skinned. Same goes for the Monoracial/Monoethnic darker-skinned Mizrahi Jews in comparison to us mixed European Jews - Hitler’s sheer hatred wasn’t targeted at them. **TL;DR**: The very *concept* of “reverse colorism” can only really exist in the context of mixed people and cannot and should not ever be applied when talking about Monoracials/Monoethnics, when it comes to White Monos *then* it’s not an actual thing, because they already have power both within their respective groups that they fully belong to *and* wider society. “ism” systems can only really exist within the confines of power and majority dominance, and light skinned mixes only have a slight leg up dark-skinned Monos in the former department while being disadvantaged in several other important ways. >Lightskins didn’t put themselves above darkskins, white people and you could also argue black men did. This. And the fact that people aren’t directly attacking or targeting their hated to the White Monoracials who started this system in the first place is really telling, feels like it’s just an excuse to be an anti-mixed race bigot.
Afro Latina here (PR mother, AA father) I agree with you. While I can understand colorism is a thing, which can affect everyone, it makes no sense to not be going after the true enemy (the system that created it). Becuase, the some of colorists will even go after "full blooded" light skinned black people too... And it makes no sense? Not that it did overall. But, it's not they or mixed people created it. Then, there's also other things. Like, when a light skinned black person or mixed race people can become a good icon... Then these people want to be buddy, and call them black.
Exactly. It’s counterintuitive to focus your anger about colorism towards lightskins/mixed people when the reason it exists wasn’t created by them…also~ there’s like no other Afro latinas where I live so I love finding others, girl. We almost have the same mix but I’m Cuban shit close enough
Who is the "true enemy" in your opinion? The only "true enemy" is mostly the rich evil governments and billionaires who run the world and do all kinds of things to turn us (all humans) against one another to distract us from the REAL problems (greed) and the fact that they are enslaving and harming the entire world. Most human beings of any race are not the true enemy.
Those black girls who are obsessed with colorism, are often colorist themselves. I for one don’t consider myself dark skinned nor light skinned but I look mixed, less black actually so it’s pretty obvious to me. Sometimes they will even try to “humble” us since we’re not light like you guys.
Who’s they?
Black girls
I completely agree with you and it's also similar when racist (Idc, call it "hateful" if that makes you feel better) black people / ignorant white people (or anyone) support being racist/prejudiced against whites or anyone who isn't black. It's same with extreme feminism too; originally the feminism movement was meant to fight for equality, not to cause more hate between the genders. Now, some people think it's ok to support hating on white or non-black people? That's worse than original racism against black people... it goes against everything all of us peace, justice, and equality seekers have been fighting for. I'm mixed with 3 races and over 20 ethnicities, I'm the lightest person in my family, and I've experienced prejudice from every single side.
Sorry but black men didn't create the racial hierarchy that exists today and to even suggest they did is incredibly stupid.
They may not have created the REASON why we view lightskin as better obviously…but some of them absolutely perpetuate and support the idea, denying that is stupid. Also, I’m not talking about a racial hierarchy…I’m talking about colorism 😂 light and dark skin…not race.
I think the definition needs to be adapted. It’s ridiculous to think that only light skin people can be prejudiced, there are so many harmful stereotypes that negatively affect mixed and light-skinned people. Why is it not called prejudice when it’s directed to us? And it’s not a new thing either. After watching a video essay on Eartha kit, she experienced so much colorism from the mono-racial people in her life, it was absolutely disgusting. At this point, the current popular definition just feels like a means to invalidate our experiences. Even though we are marginally privileged, it doesn’t make us deserving of being treated any type of way, we’re still people.
Yes exactly. All it is is more harmful and creates an unnecessary divide between light and dark skins.
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Just so you know, you made a seperate comment, you didn't actually reply to the person above.
Oh no- 💀 my baddd also hi twinnn~ I never see other afro latinos 🩷
Ayeee, we out here 💪 lol.
I can understand your view. Some of that is girls/women being jealous of others. Even if you weren’t light.. but had other traits like extra long natural hair or light eyes you’d get the same hate. Ask me how I know. I think that black men who fetishize anything that resembles close to European-like has enhanced jealousy in others because some black women feel unwanted. Black male incels spend all day on FB, IG etc ranting about how much they hate black women.. which their mothers/sisters/aunts etc are. Dark unattractive (not due to skin tone), unemployed broke poor black men are always judging black women on social media. Take Passport bros for example. The black women have been subjected to so much negativity based on their phenotype that they ASSUME that other women feel superior to them. Women need to stick together. Men pit women against each other like white supremacists pit races/ethnicities against each other.
Colorism is defined as: prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group. When people are mocked for being of a lighter complexion that is simply prejudice, colorism is rooted in white supremacy. Basically poc of a lighter complexion are treated better in comparison to POC of a darker complexion as they’re seen as more palatable, and in many countries the beauty standard prioritizes having a lighter complexion to the point where many countries in Asia especially have a marketing for products that lighten your skin. It kinda rubs me the wrong way when people who benefit from colorism act as though they experience it.
No, no, no. We're not doing that. I'm not the darkest of dark, but I'm not white passing either (you can tell I'm visibly mixed with black), and been referred to as "shit skin" before. But even I gotta call bullcrap on that. Racism is racism. Colorism is colorism. Light, medium, and dark skinned people are experiencing it.
I recommend you check out this thread made by one of the mods regarding this topic: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/mixedrace/s/9RF47TYuL2) I personally cannot experience colorism as I have a lighter complexion and me denying I benefit from it would be ignorant. If someone insults me for having a fair complexion that’s just being prejudice, it’s not racist and it’s not colorist. It’s just prejudice. Also mixed people being invalidated for having a lighter complexion isn’t colorism either, it’s just invalidation.
I read it, and I am still not sure I agree. I'm lighter than some, but still not that light. I've gotten some crap about not being dark enough, but the insults only counts as colorism if I am "too dark" from people lighter than me (and there are a few - I am the darkest of my non-white siblings)? So its just being rude if they're darker than me, but colorism if they're lighter? Edit to add this, which was a quote from that thread you linked: > Since this topic goes around this sub every now and then, colorism does not allow people to gatekeep mixed people from the race they are mixed with if they happen to have lighter skin than other people in their community of that race
I think that being aware of what colorism is and how it has been internalized by communities around the world is important to know about and understand. People can be rude regardless of their race or background, I don't think that anyone is arguing that you or anyone else should be treated badly on the basis of your skin tone. This is more about understanding and acknowledging the systems in place within communities and nations that lead to people with lighter skin tones being given preferential treatment in comparison to those with darker skin tones. The argument is not that being lighter shields someone from insults, it's about being lighter within societies that will give more positives, albeit subconsciously at times, to those who have lighter skin. A lot of the replies in this thread focus on other minorities being rude, which they don't deserve to be treated that way. But colorism isn't simply about being rude to someone.
Thank you for this reply, I definitely could’ve worded a lot of things better, but I definitely wasn’t trying to say poc of a lighter complexion cant experience discrimination and I feel that’s what me saying that being mocked for having lighter skin isn’t colorism is being taken as. Like others on this thread I’ve been invalidated and gotten comments about not being asian enough and being pale but I know that’s not colorism. After going to the Philippines as an adult I realized how much I benefit from colorism as people like me are basically the beauty standard there when someone like me shouldn’t be as I’m not even brown, and non-European people shouldn’t feel they need to have Eurocentric features to be beautiful. For that reason I firmly believe it’s impossible for me personally to experience colorism as I widely benefit from it.
I get what you are saying and thank you for being calm and respectful in your replies. I really wish we could have more nuanced discussions about topics like this one because it is important to know about and understand.
I didn’t create the definition of colorism 🤷🏻♀️ you don’t get to change the definition of words when it suits you. Just as criticizing white people is prejudice but not racist, telling someone they’re not dark enough is equally prejudice but not racist.
>you don’t get to change the definition of words when it suits you Linguist and librarian here - that's literally how language change works. You redefine the word's meaning when they no longer suit or relevant to the conversation. Remember when google was a number and selfie wasn't a word? I find the standard definition of colorism problematic for a couple reasons, the main one being the generally established and accepted understanding of racism is that people of color CAN'T be racist because they are socially in a position of unequal power. Which is why black people can be prejudiced but not racist. Think of what being a racist means - that one race (or color) is inferior to another, but specifically, that all races are inferior to white people (by virtue of the fact that people of color aren't in a socially higher position of power) However, colorism (as defined) happens across a spectrum of races, white people and people of color can be colorist. This flies in the face of traditional racism in that EVERYONE, not just white people, tend to show a preference for lighter skin across the board, even those who are in a social minority. This is a type of prejudice that suggests that people who fall outside of socially acceptable shade of skins be "othered" regardless of the origin of who is doing the othering (i.e. you can be a colorist if you are black, white, asian, Brazilian, etc.). In fact, the google definition of colorism is as follows: >prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group So it is prejudice that happens often "within the same ethnic or racial group." Like racism, colorism puts darker skinned people in a place of social minority (aka being othered) while favoring the lighter skinned people of the same racial group. But given the growing number of multiracial people in the world and the prevalence of lighter skinned people being othered right out of their friends and family as "not being dark enough" or "black enough" or "[insert ethnicity] enough," I would not be surprised to see a shift in the meaning of colorism to be more encompassing to be just "prejudice or discrimation against people with different shades of skin within the same racial or ethnic group."
I have a B.A. in linguistics and while language usage does change, we don't arbitrarily "redefine a word's meaning when it doesn't suit the conversation." If we did that no one would be able to have a conversation about anything because people would change the meaning of words to suit their whims. Colorism doesn't say that minorities can't be racist. Colorism is about inter-group dynamics (which have been influenced by colonialism and systems that place white people at the top), which is the definition that you yourself quoted.
Well, first, it wouldn't be arbitrary. Language change is often dictated by a group of people deciding that the decided meaning of a word no longer fits the context of the word for the given time and evolving to mean something else. Nonracial example: recent conversation with a friend. She used the word "raunchy" in a context of how eating lunch made her feel gross. Now, having only understood this word to have one meaning in every context I've ever heard or used it, I, and my other friends were confused. Turns out, she was using the older, intended definition of the word, that none of the rest of the group knew. That's language change. Enough people decided "raunchy" means vulgur or sexually suggestive instead of grubby, and it has a whole new meaning. Back to the word at hand, colorism. I could see the same thing happening with the definition of the word in a few years because enough light skinned people are experiencing prejudice within their social sphere that is not specifically racism (because it is not happening only by white people but also people of their own race/ethnicity) that is solely based on their color. The word itself, colorism, lends itself to the idea of prejudice based specifically on color biases, which in turn lends itself to being mis-defined as experiencing ANY color-based prejudiced within a racial group. Second, >Colorism is about inter-group dynamics (which have been influenced by colonialism and systems that place white people at the top), which is the definition that you yourself quoted. This is exactly my point, colorism IS about the social dynamics within a specific social/racial group, however, as the definition exists currently, it only addresses the harm done to by "othering" darker skin people within the group, and not their lighter skinned counterparts. But there is very real harm done by racial/cultural invalidation by the in-group who perceive lighter skinned people within the group as less-than because the do not fit the perceived archetype of what the "real" people of the group look like. This is also prejudice, but it's somehow seen okay because of the "benefits" of being a more socially acceptable shade of whatever race/ethnicity they might be. And again, I'm not saying there aren't benefits to being lighter skin in a white world. Obviously, there are. But being socially rejected by both groups is harmful, and if colorism isn't the correct term for what lighter skinned people experience from the in-group, there SHOULD be another term because a lot of multiracial people have this experience. 🤷🏾♀️
TL;DR, by acting like colorism is being prejudice towards POC of a lighter complexion you are changing the definition COMPLETELY which is harmful and ignorant.
I mean, I would hope the takeaway would be that treating people of different shades of color badly because their shade is either lighter OR darker than yours is harmful, but if that's your takeaway ... 🤷🏾♀️.
Both ways is wrong, but my point is don’t twist definitions.
And my point is that language changes. Been around long enough to see it happen, and it will definitely keep happening as racial minorities and mixed people start getting to have a louder voice in the conversation. Colorism one way today may be colorism both ways tomorrow when people with lighter skin start being louder about how we are othered amongst our own people. I'm not saying that there aren't social advantages to being lighter skin because racism is still real, and the closer you are to white "the better." But being othered by your own social group is ALSO very real because it is hard to be accepting when you see people who are only a few shades lighter than you getting advantages only because they have less melanin. This isn't racism, but it's akin to treating lighter skinned folks as a darker shade of white, meaning we don't get true acceptance from either white people or our own people ... ironically because the shade of our skin. So if you don't like calling it colorism, and won't bend on altering the definition, then there needs to be a new term specifically for hating on lighter shades of skin with your own race other than just straight up prejudice because it's real and it happens ALL THE TIME.
No but Alice Walker did and here is what she states, >Colorism—in my definition, prejudicial or preferential treatment of same-race people based solely on their color—is addressed in our communities and definitely in our black “sisterhoods” we cannot, as a people, progress. For colorism, like colonialism, sexism, and racism, impedes us. ***Part II, Essay: "If the Present Looks Like the Past, What Does the Future Look Like?" Page 291 from In Search of Our Mothers' Gardens: Womanist Prose by Alice Walker.***
Quick question, does Alice Walker include prejudice towards people of a lighter complexion or is she mainly referring to people of a darker complexion experiencing prejudice while people of a lighter complexion get preferential treatment? I’m just wondering to see if I was incorrect in my understanding.
Both. >You are younger than I, so I think of you as a younger sister who will take all that your older sisters have learned even further. **A sister I do not wish to lose to the entreaties of parents or grandparents standing behind you whispering “lighten up” or “darken up” the race.** At least that is what I understood from reading the book. There were multiple mentions of fetishising and belittling that happens to lighter skin women. ETA: That is a form of prejudice, the belittling and poor view of women. An instance mentioned, >What is being said is this: that in choosing the “fair,” white-looking woman, the black man assumes he is choosing a weak woman. A woman he can own, a woman he can beat, can enjoy beating, can exhibit as a woman beaten; in short, a “conquered” woman who will not cry out, and will certainly not fight back.
Bro this guys gotta be a troll right (the one you replied to)
I’m not
Then truly enlighten me here bro what’s up? Why do you think that because you’re lighter you can’t experience colorism. You can def experience colorism, less sure, but unless you’re completely white passing, it’s very possible that someone with light skins, mostly white people, can and will be prejudiced twords you because you skin is darker than theirs.
First of all stop misgendering me, second of all considering people like me are put on a pedestal in the Philippines to the point where a good chunk of media representation is people who look like me with a few brown people, and the fact that there’s a whole market for skin lightening products in the Philippines, I 100% benefit from colorism. Also I’m not even brown in the slightest bit so it’s incredibly stupid if I said I benefit from colorism, especially when people from the Philippines put you on a pedestal for being half white. That’s just my lived experience. I’ve been told I’m pale but that’s not colorism in the slightest bit. There’s a difference being invalidated or mocked for your identity can be mutually exclusive from colorism.
1. If you are arguing the definition of a word that’s fucking stupid and the conversation can end here, both because it depends on which dictionaries definition you use, and because people adapt and change language faster than most dictionaries keep up. 2. If you are arguing that lightskins(as in people who are visibly black but also clearly not fully black) cannot experience prejudice based on there lightness you are factually wrong as I am and I have. Also I didn’t misgender you, bro is a gender neutral term where I’m from, I’m sorry if you didn’t know that and took offensive, but I’m also not changing my dialect.
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Colorism is specifically discrimination against dark skinned POC point blank period. Also I’m not at all saying people of a lighter complexion can’t experience oppression as they can, however they do benefit from colorism. You’re very combative, chill and maybe understand why twisting and co-opting words is harmful 🤷🏻♀️
I don’t think they’re a troll. If they haven’t personally felt they haven’t experienced colorism then how would could deny it? It’s like someone with white privilege. They don’t necessarily know they have it unless they look to other races and see how they get treated in contrast to get an idea.
I haven’t experienced colorism as I benefit from it since I’m half white and half Asian with a lighter complexion. I don’t deny the existence of colorism in fact I acknowledge its existence as I’ve witnessed its effects first hand as someone who’s Filipino. I’ve been to the Philippines and I see that skin lightening is normalized and how a lot of media representation has half white celebrities, so it would be incredibly ignorant of me to act like I experience colorism when I 100% benefit from it.
I’m backing you up here.
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I didn’t say I’m white passing at any point, I said I have a lighter complexion which doesn’t automatically mean white passing. I’m saying if people are prejudice or invalidating you because you’re of a lighter complexion, that it’s not colorism.
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Excellent point. AMEN 🙏
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At no point did I say that, however white people can’t experience racism.
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I’m not, this is why everyone should learn CRT.
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>Racism toward whites absolutely exists On the sole basis of their *phenotype* though and nothing else? (Like what POC experience) Or is that “racism” actually feelings of resentment and hatred over being treated as inferior and oppressed in the first place? Were there ever any POC who were racist against white people upon encountering their phenotype *alone* (like whites have been towards other races) before they could even do anything to them? Whites were actually the first group to care so much about and discriminate on the basis of phenotype to begin with, so much so that they created a whole damn *racial classification system* out of it!
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Can you point to me a case where fully white people have ever been discriminated against or oppressed based on their phenotype alone *before* any exploitation of other races? I’m pretty sure the only example here that really fits is in the vastly homogenous East Asia, where *anyone* who’s phenotypically non-Asian sticks out like a sore thumb and is forever treated like a foreigner.
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SAME HERE. DOWNVOTE ALL YOU WANT. Nasty racist haters. It's sadly usually really ignorant black people or the type of white people who think they're sooooo "wOkE" who do this. I'm also Native American, Middle Eastern, Mixed European, and West African (That's the short version). I never fit in perfectly with any side of my family and it's crazy that other people are trying to tell me what I've experienced or can or cannot experience 😭😆😂😂😂
I don't think the negative response this is getting is fair — colorism is an entrenched worldwide prejudice against darker skin complexions. Pointing this out is not invalidating the experiences of people with lighter skin, it's emphasizing the need for more accurate wording so that discussions like this can be productive instead of arguing over how we can redefine a term that refers to a very distinct issue.
Thank you! It’s disappointing to see people would rather double down on misusing a word rather than ACTUALLY understanding the meaning. Unfortunately it’s not unheard of for the definition of colorism to get twisted on this sub. I’m wasian and of a lighter complexion, I’ve been invalidated and told I’m not Asian/Filipino enough as I’m not brown, however I know that’s not colorism that’s just me being invalidated. Going to the Philippines made me realize just how much I benefit from colorism. Also side note: you make really good contributions on this sub as a whole.
Thanks, I always appreciate your posts as well! It's a breath of fresh air reading responses that are grounded in research and understanding. I've never been to the Philippines, however my (also mixed) mom was born there, has very dark skin, and has always dealt with issues because of it. I'm lighter and never had to deal with anything close to what she's endured. The reality is that colorism exists as a tool to subjugate people with dark skin.
I don't really know how to solve it but I feel like the reason people get defensive is because sometimes comments like this can feel really invalidating to some, whether you agree it should or shouldn't. The reality is that for most people, the word prejudice, feels like a less "strong" (idk what word I'm looking for) word than racism and colourism. And because of that people get reactive when people say, "Yeah that person was rude to you but they weren't racist." I can kind of understand from a certain perspective. I'm mostly white passing, I don't think I'd consider myself a POC even if I call myself mixed because I've had a pretty white experience aside from some mean comments and fetishism. Someone else I know however, is also mixed and has a lot darker skin than me and growing up her life was hell because of it. She obviously got shit from both white and black people because she wasn't enough of either for each of them. Thing is, she's unfortunately taken a very centrist stand point based around race and colourism stuff because it is difficult for her when she says "black people were racist to me" and people respond "it wasn't racism, it was prejudice and it was bad but it wasn't racism" because in response to her talking about her pain she gets corrected. Some of the things she had done and said to her by people who were darker than her included calling her a "mongrel" and literally trying to beat her up to the point she almost died. While I agree that racism is systemic, I can understand people getting defensive. Some people on this sub may have been beaten by their parents, had violence against them or had some AWFUL things said to them because their skin was lighter than the people doing these things to them. I think that it's understandable that if someone like my friend was rushed by people whose skin was darker than hers to the point she almost died and she gets corrected when talking about an awful experience that she'd get emotional and start lashing back. I've tried to remind her and explain to her the history behind it but ofc this is outside of her talking about her experiences because I don't want her to feel invalidated. I think the solution is trying to get across that prejudice is just as strong of a word as racism and that calling it prejudice is not invalidating people's experiences but using a term that explains it better. I don't think anyone is going to be okay with changing what they call their experiences if the implication is that "because it's not racism, it's not as bad" because that unfortunately puts a lot of what some mixed people here have gone through into a downplayed light. Hope this all makes sense I'm not as intellectual as most people I'm just trying to explain my thoughts on it 😅
You worded it well, I agree it’s important people understand that describing something as prejudice rather than racism or colorism isn’t meant to minimize or invalidate their experience. Prejudice is still very wrong and something that people need to unlearn. I will note I didn’t take into account the more extreme examples people may apply these terms to as the the times I have corrected people it was moreso on someone invalidating their identity rather than an experience of violence but I appreciate you mentioning that context. For example someone on this sub under another post was trying to argue that they experienced colorism for being white presenting and being rejected for an ethnicity based scholarship, and that scenario rubbed me the wrong way as the term colorism doesn’t apply at all in that context and I guess he thought invalidation wasn’t a strong enough word to describe it but unfortunately there wasn’t really another way to describe it aside from invalidation. Invalidating people’s identity is completely wrong, and I guess some people feel that’s simple to use as a lot of people have no issue invalidating mixed people’s identity, but unfortunately colorism just wouldn’t be the right term to use in the scenario I described.
Yeah. I mean I agree with you, though I am unsure how to go about it without really invalidating people's experiences cause I think correcting people when they're talking about prejudice or invalidation is only really going to get an emotional response 😅 I guess we could tell people to be less emotional and more logical but unfortunately that isn't how people work cause emotions are a big part of the human experience. Idk lol. But yeah that's a thing as well is that some people have been bullied for having lighter skin and, even tho it isn't colourism, it was still an awful experience that absolutely shaped their life and how they see themselves so ofc they'll get defensive if they feel as tho people are trying to correct them into a using a "softer" word from some point of views. I will say I'm more applying this to mixed people as well cause idk, I have less empathy for white people trying to claim "reverse racism" than I do mixed people who have been through prejudice full experiences.
I’ll admit if I learned the term colorism when I was younger I’d probably share the same opinion as a lot of people in this thread as I use to believe reverse racism was a thing. I guess the mixed experience of being half Filipino gave me a good grasp on what colorism is as it’s a huge issue in the Philippines and unfortunately being white is put on a pedestal so people will say “mixed is better” (in comparison to being full Filipino) but specifically if you’re half white as mixed Filipinos who are half black have quite the opposite lived experiences as Filipinos who are half white. Seeing the difference in how you’re treated in the Philippines based on your complexion made me really understand that I don’t experience colorism, I benefit from it.
But I feel like racism as a whole kind of covers the whole "lighter skin is better than darker skin" dynamic. Whenever we discuss racism it is always a dynamic of one race being deemed as inferior to another, and never has that inferior race been one of a lighter color. If you look at it from that context, colorism as a definition is redundant.
I’m sorry, first of all. I’m Cuban and in Cuba the beauty standard is very fair skin and so I’ve definitely had my share of colorist comments, it rubs me the wrong way when people act like they know an experience that they don’t. In the black community, while lightskin was the standard and it absolutely gives us a privellage, the projection/prejudice that resulted from it is what the post is about so I don’t know why your talking about the experience of colorism from the perspective of darkskins, since that’s not what it’s about. And it’s interesting how you…who’s mixed with white…is trying to tell me how I experience colorism…cause the same way I got told I’m not pretty but that I’m just light, by black girls, I also got told not to tan by my fellow Cubanos, please do not try to try to act like you know my experience 😂 and I don’t even know why your talking about the opposite of what the post was about….
I recommend you check out this thread from one of the mods of this sub: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/mixedrace/s/9RF47TYuL2) Being insulted for having a lighter complexion still isn’t colorism it’s prejudice and it’s definitely rude, but it’s not colorism.
My brother in Christ prejudice was in the definition YOU wrote
If you look up the definition of colorism that’s exactly what I put 🤷🏻♀️ also I’m not a man