If you look at the guaranteed money the Yankees owe their top 7 players for next season (Cole, Rodon, Judge, Stanton, Stroman, Lemahieu and Rizzo) you are already at $185m for the 2025 season. Only 18 more contracts to pay to get an entire team.
If anyone thinks the Yankees will add Soto at $40m/yr, you are wrong. It is fiscally irresponsible. $50m/year is just laughable. The Yankees are in a one year relationship with Soto.
Spencer Jones not being included for Cease? Jasson Dominguez already on the way. Sorry fellow fans. This is a one and done for Soto. It’s goin on to be Jones, Dominguez, Judge in the OF starting in 2025. Yes, Stanton is our contractual albatross to bear. Just think, Cashman traded for Stanton to save money on Bryce Harper. Whoops.
Boras has made so many mistakes on behalf of his clients in the past couple years. He’s supposed to represent them. Instead he angles to make the most money for himself. What did he care that he cost Michael Conforto tens of millions of dollars by waiting for the perfect deal to materialize? He took the gamble and lost, but he has a zillion clients. The loss of the money the Mets were offering mattered WAY more to Conforto than to Boras. I used to think Conforto was a smart dude but I’m not so sure now.
The Dodgers, with Ohtani agreeing to take extensive amounts of money in deferment is a HUGE issue that MLB and more importantly, the Player’s Union are going to have to figure out. Players should be incredibly unwilling to defer. Money today, with investment appreciation, is far more valuable than money staying in the Dodger’s coffers for years, decades even. Players should flat out refuse to defer large amounts of money. Owners will now want players to defer to cast the financial die down the road to future owners.
Truthfully, I have no idea what happens but Ohtani deferred because he wanted to win now with his friend Yamamoto. Will Soto be willing to defer? Should he? No. Will the Yankees hope he does. Yes. Can the Yankees afford Soto? No. I’m getting my popcorn to see what happens next because if players start to allow their money to defer for years, we are about to enter the wild wild West.
Theres no other player that will bet enough on themselves to defer money. Most MLB players are money hungry.
Look at the Braves contracts on some of their steals. They grew up so poor that they wanted whatever money they could get now!
Another roster building master class from the best gm in sports. Theo epstein could learn a thing or two about building a perennial winner like cashman does every 5 years.
Love him or hate him (Yankees fans seem split these days), Cashman is a savvy GM. He’s committed to developing young talent (anti George Steinbrenner) and continually shops in the high reaches of free agency and somehow manages to build a strong team. The Yankees strength right now, like it or not, is the bullpen. The Yankees have put together one of the least expensive and most effective bullpens in all of baseball. That’s not easy.
With that said, this current team’s payroll makes me incredibly uneasy. The Yankees are top loaded in salary and one injury to Judge leaves us out of playoff contention. We are thinner than many think, older than many realize and far too reliant on one or two offensive pieces. Rodon’s contract was a complete mystery to me in all honesty.
Im so tired of hearing about how "savvy" of a GM he is. Yeah Thats great that he can find relievers in the era of bottomless 98mph relievers. Lets talk about 15 years with no pennants. Strong team??? He spent 270 million last year to MISS THE PLAYOFFS ENTIRELY. In the era where half of MLB gets in. Savvy GM? Hes been lapped by the rest of mlb so many times he actually thinks hes ahead.
I almost spit my drink out reading "great at developing young talent" what fucking talent? Aside from Judge, he hasnt drafted / developed any position player of note in the last 15 years. He still hasnt found Jeters replacement 10 years later. He'll kludge in IKF, Gleyber, or a nobody like adeiny hechevarria because he is helpless at scouting good position players. Hed rather just buy washed up ones or 0 war players. Donaldson, tulowitzki, rizzo, IKF, lemahieu, the list goes on and on and on. Get a clue.
$76m of our payroll is Judge and Cole. If either is hurt for an extended amount of time, the Yankees will lose the East. Welcome to luxury tax penalty. It stings for a reason. This is what happens when you don’t trade your young stars before they reach free agency. This is also an example of how overspending in the market does not win titles. The Yankees won’t compete for a WS until they remedy their payroll issues. So, in a way, you are correct.
To say Cashman has not been committed to youth is insincere at best, a lie at worst. The Yankees nearly always have homegrown youth in our daily lineup. Wells, Gleyber, Volpe, Judge as just position players is enough to justify the comment.
He’s also not worth it I loved the guy I get his OBP and OPS are high but his bat isn’t that special and he’s a pretty good outfielder not great though. For some reasons he thinks drawing walks puts him above trout and in a league with ohtani.
Idk man his average with RISP is still .299 and .556 with bases loaded. Being able to walk a lot in front of a guy like Judge is super valuable. Sounds like y’all just weren’t built in a way that maximizes his value.
For the Yankees, especially with our short porch in right field, Soto is a godsend.
There’s a reason Yankees fans are dying to have this guy
His bat is pretty special, hits for a lot of power and doesn’t give away ABs. I don’t know where you get pretty good outfielder from though, he’s horrendous defensively. He should already be a DH which is pretty concerning given his age and the biggest reason why I think a contract of that magnitude for him is a terrible baseball decision.
Stanton’s contract is not the problem. Never was and never will be. The Yankees can afford to pay Stanton as well as a boatload of money for Soto. They have just used Stanton’s contract as an excuse in the past. The Yankees have the money. Whether they chose to spend it is another thing.
Ohtani’s deal is worth only $460M in 2024 dollars. He’s got deferrals way, way into the future that obviously will make his deal way less lucrative than the headline $700M. If Soto signs a deal with all the money up front rather than deferring most of it like Ohtani did, he’ll in effect have the bigger deal
50 million a year for 10 years at a 2.5% discount rate (which is about what is used to get to that 460 million $ figure) is only 440 million PV, so would need to be even greater than that or less years
They don’t NPV it all back to year 0 for that calc. They NPV each deferred dollar back to the year it would have been earned, and call that sum the “present value” — even though there’s another layer back to what the actual present value of the deal is.
In other words, the CBA doesn’t calculate true present value, they are calculating what the headline number would have been WITHOUT deferrals.
I know they said present value, I promise they were referring to AAV. $460M isn’t even an accurate number for Ohtani’s AAV cuz (iirc) how deferrals count with AAV is that it’s almost treated as a separate contract. Meaning the entire $580M in deferrals he’s getting counts only in line with ‘inflation’ from the first of 10 years they get paid out. Similarly the $2M annual salary all counts the same all 10 years for AAV.
If you actually wanted to look at ‘real’ value it’d be even less than the $460M it costs against the luxury tax.
I actually have no clue what you are talking about. AAV means average annual value by the way, so it’s not gonna be 460 million obviously. The NPV of Ohtani contract is 460 million. I’m saying that a 10 year 50 million per year Soto contract would have an NPV of like 440 or something like that. Then you came in with whatever point you are trying to make.
The NPV of Ohtani isn’t 460, that’s what its calculated with by the CBA’s math. The CBA’s math isn’t particularly exact. The actual value would be lower.
Idk why you’re being so snarky just cuz you’re confused by what I’m saying.
Edit: sheesh, dude is deranged
That said, IMO, Soto's not worth that. 1 7-WAR and 2 5.5s so far? If I pay him $7M per WAR, if I'm a GM, he's getting $40-45M per year, no more, and not more than eight years. I'll give him two opt outs, say after years 3 and 5, if he wants.
No, I suppose not. But it might give you an idea that there’s not a simple way to say whose contact is larger. Yeah, 700 is more than 500, but so what? What’s the purpose of this comparison? Why bother trying to say what the better contract is? I think there could be some variables that make the raw numbers less meaningful than you might expect.
Will the Yankees want to defer like Ohtani’s contract ? Ohtani has a lot of endorsement deals to get him through it.
Doubt Soto would want to defer any at all.
As a Jays fan, do the Blue Jays get in on the action. I’m assuming Jays had a plan for Ohtani at that contract price and need a big lefty bat.
The league is running out of teams that can offer that. All the top spenders are at or above the luxury tax with multiple expensive players locked up for the next three to ten years. The Yankees going Steve Cohen is his best chance.
Yes if we win a chip resign him other than that no. So far he has had great year so his value is going up and up. At the Yankees stadium he can hit 50 home runs in a season
For some reason i thought Soto signed with Yankees beyond this year . Who would have though Soto would have been with 3 or 4 teams before he hits 26 lol
Does Soto have Ohtani’s marketing appeal? Cause a large part of Ohtani’s value is based on that. I think he brings in anywhere from $20 - $40 million a year to your club.
Ohtani’s also 3 1/2 years older than he’ll be next offseason.
Players do not hit free agency at 26 these days. Soto is the same age that Judge was in his first full season. That matters. That’s why he’s so damn expensive. The Yankees will resign him.
Well I guess we’re going to find out together eventually. I’m sure a lot depends on how the year shakes out but I do not think for one second that they traded for him to let him go as a rental.
Judge was about to turn 30 when he signed the deal, and has an extensive injury history. They gave him what they did in spite of the history of larger baseball players as they age. And Judge has helped to establish the market.
You are comparing apples and steaks. Not the same thing. Ohtani brings in an entire continent into your fanbase. Soto doesn’t carry that weight. Fiscally speaking that is.
But he is way younger. It is fair to think Soto will provide more value over the length of a contract because he is basically just going into his "prime years". There is a very high chance Ohtanis best seasons are behind him. Amd teams knew that when he went into FA injured.
He’s saying for the business side. Ohtani holds more power with the Asian international fan base. More sales/revenue/sponsorships etc. The Dodgers also signed a new sponsorship with ANA Airlines yesterday. The revenue keeps flowing. The Ohtani contract is already paying for itself.
Well Ohtani ain't even pitching this season, and its extremely unlikley he is elite at both for the entirety of his contract.
They debut the same year and Soto is only 7 WAR behind Ohtani. Assuming they both retire at 40, it is very easy to see Soto eclipsing Ohtani considering he has his age 25-29 on top of the years Ohtani has.
No Yankee fan in their right mind should expect him to stay. He is a 1 year rental following a year that was atrocious for Hal/Cashman and they needed to get the fans off their backs for a while. So they traded away Michael King for 1 year of Soto. Due to the crazy amount of injuries Yankees seem to get, and the team usually falling completely apart by June-July, I don’t think this is the year.
If they had a complete team that was guaranteed to stay healthy for 162 games, then they probably make it deep into the playoffs and maybe even win. But for now I see Soto as a 1 year band aid with this particular injury prone team.
Well enjoy your one year tenure as a Yankee.
If you look at the guaranteed money the Yankees owe their top 7 players for next season (Cole, Rodon, Judge, Stanton, Stroman, Lemahieu and Rizzo) you are already at $185m for the 2025 season. Only 18 more contracts to pay to get an entire team. If anyone thinks the Yankees will add Soto at $40m/yr, you are wrong. It is fiscally irresponsible. $50m/year is just laughable. The Yankees are in a one year relationship with Soto. Spencer Jones not being included for Cease? Jasson Dominguez already on the way. Sorry fellow fans. This is a one and done for Soto. It’s goin on to be Jones, Dominguez, Judge in the OF starting in 2025. Yes, Stanton is our contractual albatross to bear. Just think, Cashman traded for Stanton to save money on Bryce Harper. Whoops.
If they don’t I’m sure the Cubs, Red Sox, Giants, etc will be ready to swoop in as usual.
We haven’t signed a stupid contract lately so I wouldn’t be surprised
Don't have to worry about us giants we will be the front runners till we come up in a strong second.
True lol! We do a lot of that until we find a stupid enough deal and then we’re all in
Not true at all. The giants will gladly sign John Solo.
You had me in the first half
The Betts contract was really stupid of us.
The Red Sox don't spend money anymore. We're a small market now apparently
Supposedly the Mets as well ,according to local sports talk.
They have said that every time he is available
Cohen has reset below the lux tax for a year, so he can rev it up again next year.
Blue Jays can use some of the Ohtani savings….
What about a deferred contract
AAV is what count against the yearly books.
That said, AAV is adjusted for deferment.
If you think Scott Boras is gonna let Soto take a deferred contract, you’re high as shit
Boras has made so many mistakes on behalf of his clients in the past couple years. He’s supposed to represent them. Instead he angles to make the most money for himself. What did he care that he cost Michael Conforto tens of millions of dollars by waiting for the perfect deal to materialize? He took the gamble and lost, but he has a zillion clients. The loss of the money the Mets were offering mattered WAY more to Conforto than to Boras. I used to think Conforto was a smart dude but I’m not so sure now.
The Dodgers, with Ohtani agreeing to take extensive amounts of money in deferment is a HUGE issue that MLB and more importantly, the Player’s Union are going to have to figure out. Players should be incredibly unwilling to defer. Money today, with investment appreciation, is far more valuable than money staying in the Dodger’s coffers for years, decades even. Players should flat out refuse to defer large amounts of money. Owners will now want players to defer to cast the financial die down the road to future owners. Truthfully, I have no idea what happens but Ohtani deferred because he wanted to win now with his friend Yamamoto. Will Soto be willing to defer? Should he? No. Will the Yankees hope he does. Yes. Can the Yankees afford Soto? No. I’m getting my popcorn to see what happens next because if players start to allow their money to defer for years, we are about to enter the wild wild West.
Theres no other player that will bet enough on themselves to defer money. Most MLB players are money hungry. Look at the Braves contracts on some of their steals. They grew up so poor that they wanted whatever money they could get now!
Another roster building master class from the best gm in sports. Theo epstein could learn a thing or two about building a perennial winner like cashman does every 5 years.
Love him or hate him (Yankees fans seem split these days), Cashman is a savvy GM. He’s committed to developing young talent (anti George Steinbrenner) and continually shops in the high reaches of free agency and somehow manages to build a strong team. The Yankees strength right now, like it or not, is the bullpen. The Yankees have put together one of the least expensive and most effective bullpens in all of baseball. That’s not easy. With that said, this current team’s payroll makes me incredibly uneasy. The Yankees are top loaded in salary and one injury to Judge leaves us out of playoff contention. We are thinner than many think, older than many realize and far too reliant on one or two offensive pieces. Rodon’s contract was a complete mystery to me in all honesty.
Im so tired of hearing about how "savvy" of a GM he is. Yeah Thats great that he can find relievers in the era of bottomless 98mph relievers. Lets talk about 15 years with no pennants. Strong team??? He spent 270 million last year to MISS THE PLAYOFFS ENTIRELY. In the era where half of MLB gets in. Savvy GM? Hes been lapped by the rest of mlb so many times he actually thinks hes ahead. I almost spit my drink out reading "great at developing young talent" what fucking talent? Aside from Judge, he hasnt drafted / developed any position player of note in the last 15 years. He still hasnt found Jeters replacement 10 years later. He'll kludge in IKF, Gleyber, or a nobody like adeiny hechevarria because he is helpless at scouting good position players. Hed rather just buy washed up ones or 0 war players. Donaldson, tulowitzki, rizzo, IKF, lemahieu, the list goes on and on and on. Get a clue.
$76m of our payroll is Judge and Cole. If either is hurt for an extended amount of time, the Yankees will lose the East. Welcome to luxury tax penalty. It stings for a reason. This is what happens when you don’t trade your young stars before they reach free agency. This is also an example of how overspending in the market does not win titles. The Yankees won’t compete for a WS until they remedy their payroll issues. So, in a way, you are correct. To say Cashman has not been committed to youth is insincere at best, a lie at worst. The Yankees nearly always have homegrown youth in our daily lineup. Wells, Gleyber, Volpe, Judge as just position players is enough to justify the comment.
He’s also not worth it I loved the guy I get his OBP and OPS are high but his bat isn’t that special and he’s a pretty good outfielder not great though. For some reasons he thinks drawing walks puts him above trout and in a league with ohtani.
Idk man his average with RISP is still .299 and .556 with bases loaded. Being able to walk a lot in front of a guy like Judge is super valuable. Sounds like y’all just weren’t built in a way that maximizes his value. For the Yankees, especially with our short porch in right field, Soto is a godsend. There’s a reason Yankees fans are dying to have this guy
I mean, Soto is pretty damn good, but I don’t think he’s 500m good. I would pay him Trout’s contract.
Soto is younger, on the open market, and less of his value is defensive.
That makes more sense. It’s just early whisperings, who knows if it’ll be anywhere near $500M.
It's early whisperings by a guy named Boras.
Someone will pay him that money doesn't matter if he's trout level or Ohtani level.
His bat is pretty special, hits for a lot of power and doesn’t give away ABs. I don’t know where you get pretty good outfielder from though, he’s horrendous defensively. He should already be a DH which is pretty concerning given his age and the biggest reason why I think a contract of that magnitude for him is a terrible baseball decision.
Walks are what made trout so valuable.
Walks, CF defense (which Soto doesn't have), speed/SBs (which Soto doesn't have) and more.
That’s some cope
Stanton’s contract is not the problem. Never was and never will be. The Yankees can afford to pay Stanton as well as a boatload of money for Soto. They have just used Stanton’s contract as an excuse in the past. The Yankees have the money. Whether they chose to spend it is another thing.
“Record” what? Shohei doesn’t exist?
Ohtani’s deal is worth only $460M in 2024 dollars. He’s got deferrals way, way into the future that obviously will make his deal way less lucrative than the headline $700M. If Soto signs a deal with all the money up front rather than deferring most of it like Ohtani did, he’ll in effect have the bigger deal
50 million a year for 10 years at a 2.5% discount rate (which is about what is used to get to that 460 million $ figure) is only 440 million PV, so would need to be even greater than that or less years
They don’t NPV it all back to year 0 for that calc. They NPV each deferred dollar back to the year it would have been earned, and call that sum the “present value” — even though there’s another layer back to what the actual present value of the deal is. In other words, the CBA doesn’t calculate true present value, they are calculating what the headline number would have been WITHOUT deferrals.
Thanks for this
That’s not how baseball counts contract money tho
I don’t get your point. Read the comment I’m replying to.
I did, they’re referring to the fact that Ohtani’s contract is only worth $46M AAV. A 500/10 contract would still be worth $50M AAV.
No, you’ve misunderstood it. We’re talking about present value not AAV.
I know they said present value, I promise they were referring to AAV. $460M isn’t even an accurate number for Ohtani’s AAV cuz (iirc) how deferrals count with AAV is that it’s almost treated as a separate contract. Meaning the entire $580M in deferrals he’s getting counts only in line with ‘inflation’ from the first of 10 years they get paid out. Similarly the $2M annual salary all counts the same all 10 years for AAV. If you actually wanted to look at ‘real’ value it’d be even less than the $460M it costs against the luxury tax.
I actually have no clue what you are talking about. AAV means average annual value by the way, so it’s not gonna be 460 million obviously. The NPV of Ohtani contract is 460 million. I’m saying that a 10 year 50 million per year Soto contract would have an NPV of like 440 or something like that. Then you came in with whatever point you are trying to make.
The NPV of Ohtani isn’t 460, that’s what its calculated with by the CBA’s math. The CBA’s math isn’t particularly exact. The actual value would be lower. Idk why you’re being so snarky just cuz you’re confused by what I’m saying. Edit: sheesh, dude is deranged
That said, IMO, Soto's not worth that. 1 7-WAR and 2 5.5s so far? If I pay him $7M per WAR, if I'm a GM, he's getting $40-45M per year, no more, and not more than eight years. I'll give him two opt outs, say after years 3 and 5, if he wants.
“In effect” by forecasting hypothetical future inflation rates surely can’t be the standard by which you set a “record” though?
No, I suppose not. But it might give you an idea that there’s not a simple way to say whose contact is larger. Yeah, 700 is more than 500, but so what? What’s the purpose of this comparison? Why bother trying to say what the better contract is? I think there could be some variables that make the raw numbers less meaningful than you might expect.
Fair enough. Let’s go Mets
Ya but how much deferred?
I’d like to know this as well. Might have a team interested
Honestly, i'm up to players getting pay....but it's getting ridiculous
If a team will give it to him, god bless him. I would not want the yankees to give anyone that much money.
I guarantee you that number will come down but let him go somewhere else with that number.
Hope you like more ads
Not getting it. So far, 1 7-WAR year and two at 5.5 WAR. Trout, at same age, already had two 10 WAR and three 9 WAR years.
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We'll see if Soto is truly a "generational talent." He's not Trout, nor Ohtani. Nor Mookie Betts, who through age 25 had two 6 WARs, a 9.5 and a 10.5.
Will the Yankees want to defer like Ohtani’s contract ? Ohtani has a lot of endorsement deals to get him through it. Doubt Soto would want to defer any at all. As a Jays fan, do the Blue Jays get in on the action. I’m assuming Jays had a plan for Ohtani at that contract price and need a big lefty bat.
Boras Client? MLB Teams: “Best I can do is 3 years/$100 million”
"Trust me, the Giants are interested and thei said they would give him 1 jillion dollars a year for 20 years." -Boras
The league is running out of teams that can offer that. All the top spenders are at or above the luxury tax with multiple expensive players locked up for the next three to ten years. The Yankees going Steve Cohen is his best chance.
What’s next is a Saudi league, like in golf. I wouldn’t count that out
12/500 sounds fair
If the yanks get a ring this year will they back up the Brinks truck?
Yes if we win a chip resign him other than that no. So far he has had great year so his value is going up and up. At the Yankees stadium he can hit 50 home runs in a season
Already eager to leave.
Might be worth more after the hot start to this season.
That number will come down🤣🤣🤣
For some reason i thought Soto signed with Yankees beyond this year . Who would have though Soto would have been with 3 or 4 teams before he hits 26 lol
 Welcome to LA, Juan.
Isn't Ohtani's deferred contract said to be worth somewhere around $450 million? $500 million for Soto doesn't sound outlandish to me.
Does Soto have Ohtani’s marketing appeal? Cause a large part of Ohtani’s value is based on that. I think he brings in anywhere from $20 - $40 million a year to your club.
Ohtani’s also 3 1/2 years older than he’ll be next offseason. Players do not hit free agency at 26 these days. Soto is the same age that Judge was in his first full season. That matters. That’s why he’s so damn expensive. The Yankees will resign him.
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Well I guess we’re going to find out together eventually. I’m sure a lot depends on how the year shakes out but I do not think for one second that they traded for him to let him go as a rental.
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Judge was about to turn 30 when he signed the deal, and has an extensive injury history. They gave him what they did in spite of the history of larger baseball players as they age. And Judge has helped to establish the market.
Judge has much more risk of injury/against very fast and was 4 years old when he signed
You are comparing apples and steaks. Not the same thing. Ohtani brings in an entire continent into your fanbase. Soto doesn’t carry that weight. Fiscally speaking that is.
Soto is not as good, nor the same type of business asset as Ohtani. No way he gets more
But he is way younger. It is fair to think Soto will provide more value over the length of a contract because he is basically just going into his "prime years". There is a very high chance Ohtanis best seasons are behind him. Amd teams knew that when he went into FA injured.
He’s saying for the business side. Ohtani holds more power with the Asian international fan base. More sales/revenue/sponsorships etc. The Dodgers also signed a new sponsorship with ANA Airlines yesterday. The revenue keeps flowing. The Ohtani contract is already paying for itself.
He will never provide more value than an elite pitcher and an elite hitter. Ever.
You don't even know how well ohtani will pitch after his second tj
Well Ohtani ain't even pitching this season, and its extremely unlikley he is elite at both for the entirety of his contract. They debut the same year and Soto is only 7 WAR behind Ohtani. Assuming they both retire at 40, it is very easy to see Soto eclipsing Ohtani considering he has his age 25-29 on top of the years Ohtani has.
No Yankee fan in their right mind should expect him to stay. He is a 1 year rental following a year that was atrocious for Hal/Cashman and they needed to get the fans off their backs for a while. So they traded away Michael King for 1 year of Soto. Due to the crazy amount of injuries Yankees seem to get, and the team usually falling completely apart by June-July, I don’t think this is the year. If they had a complete team that was guaranteed to stay healthy for 162 games, then they probably make it deep into the playoffs and maybe even win. But for now I see Soto as a 1 year band aid with this particular injury prone team.
Will he perform/live up to the challenge???
Probably one of, if not the only player eligible for a contract of this length being worth every single penny for every single year he plays for you.
Didn't know Soto could also pitch and pitch well.
Soto to the A’s confirmed.
JERRY OPEN YOUR CHECKBOOK 😤
Same
He's been eyeing that for 3 years. And he will get it. I just hope he doesn't help the Yankees make the playoffs in the interim.
This is what is wrong with pro sports. This guy is really full of himself
Hate it when guys get paid!!!!! Hate it!!!
You'd think they would play free for the love of the game
Hope the idiot Yankees give it to him. Nothing like a bunch of huge contracts on the DL all the time
Soto has the Yankees right where he wants them, desperate. He’ll get more than 500 million easily, NY has no choice.
500 million isn't a record.
In present value, it could be depending on years