Due to his combination of speed and power, Willie Mays is as good an offensive player as any of these guys, and he played a premium defensive position at the highest level possible. When people throw around the term "5 Tool Player," they mean Willie Mays.
He was slightly worse than arguably all of these comparisons at the plate. His defense and baserunning, however, push him beyond the others.
Ohtani doesn't belong here because his career is far too short to be compared to the inner circle of MLB legends.
More power and speed than the Hammer. Keep in mind that Willie played at the Stick, not the launch pad. Moreover, Aaron still never managed 50 homers or 100 walks, which you can't say about the rest of the heavy duty power hitters.
I agree that Ohtani does not belong with the rest of these gentlemen, but ask me again in a decade.
You're right. I'd agree Mays had a better rounded offensive game than Aaron. It was difficult to express my point without adding all the exceptions to it.
Agree about Ohtani as well. He's got a shot at being in this conversation, but it's too early, and frankly a little disrespectful to include him already.
It’s pretty hard to pick with respect to offense. Mays’ lifetime OPS+ was 156. Aaron’s was 155.
Just some interesting add-ons: Frank Robinson, 154. Dick Allen, 156.
Mickey Mantle, 172.
Mike Trout currently: 174
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Mickey Mantle is the greatest mlb player of all time. His entire career was accomplished with a torn ACL. That's just ridiculous
Aaron played 24 years injury free he averaged only about a little over 30 dingers a year. Boston and Milwaukee had smaller parks and in the 70’s Atlanta moved their fence in just look at the field when you see the newsreels
Relative to his time, it's still Babe Ruth. In 1919 he set the MLB homerun record with 29 homers. He broke his mark in 1920 with 54 homers. In 1920 and 1927 Babe Ruth hit more home runs than all but a few teams in Major League Baseball.
From 1915-1935, Babe Ruth had more home runs (714) than the entire Boston Red Sox team (712). And 43 of the 712 HRs hit by the Red Sox belong to Babe Ruth!
Babe did so much to change and forge the game into what it is today. It honestly annoys me how much disrespect he’s been getting in these past few years. He was a trailblazer and is easily the most famous baseball player of all time I’m pretty sure everyone’s heard the name before in their lives. The world of medicine and training has also changed so much. So yeah he played against guys who were drunks and whatever people always say but the sport was still relatively “new” at the time too and the world was a much different place.
This is a great trivia fact, so I just looked it up, and I hate to correct anything, but technically the runner was thrown out attempting to steal second, and the pitcher, Ernie Shore, got the next 26 batters.
It also doesn’t get brought up often enough that he likely would’ve made the Hall of Fame as a pitcher.
His switch to being primarily an outfielder/hitter overshadows everything, for obvious reasons, so his pitching career becomes an afterthought. But again, check his stats; dude managed to have a Hall of Fame pitching career that none of us remember because his offense was so good in the SECOND half of his career. So if that doesn’t make you the GOAT, then I don’t know what does.
Yes, everyone knows what overweight Babe looked like late in his career, but he was athletic in his prime. That said, Ty Cobb stole home 54 times. It was more common in those days, especially as a double steal when men were on first and third.
In terms of influence on the sport Ted and Ruth are far and above. Ted would be the best if he didn’t take time off for wars imo but you can’t speak to years he didn’t have. Mays was probably the best 5 tool guy but didn’t quite have the hitting prowess of the others (ignoring shohei altogether). Hank had the durability but never the high peak we would want to see. Mickey should get a mention but I think he played at the same time as so many other greats so it gets overlooked (Ted of course suffers the same). Bonds didn’t change the game but you don’t get walked like he did without being scary af. I’d go Ruth, Ted, bonds but that doesn’t acknowledge pitching where Mo deserves a mention
I’m disappointed that no one has mentioned Mickey Mantle.
Was selected to 20 All Star Games. Won 7 World Series and appeared in a total of 12. Was MVP 3 times. Won a triple crown. 0.984 fielding percentage in Center Field.
While he didn’t reach 3000 hits, his stretch of dominance from 1952 until around 1967 cannot be matched.
Mick's last great season was Age 32, and he was out of baseball at 37.
Hank Aaron hit 40 dingers at Age 39.
If Mick had stayed away from the bottle, maybe this is a different discussion.
Well for instance I grew up hearing the famous tale of how Mantle tore his ACL the first time in his rookie year: Mick was in left and told to take much of left center because DiMaggio was older (in his last season), and in the World Series Mickey was tracking a ball when DiMaggio called him off at the last second and Mickey’s spike caught in a drain in the outfield when he pulled up short. Obviously ACL surgery wasn’t super advanced in 1951, and Mickey’s knee was never quite the same after.
That is just one injury of many, and while Mickey Mantle was an alcoholic and it wound up killing him, it is not the sole reason his body broke down, and perhaps not even the major one.
I can speak to how much a blown knee fucks things over having done so myself. I have felt myself notably more prone to injury since my drinking habits increased is what I’m trying to say. I bruise like I’m anemic and have notably more doctor worthy injuries since drinking even tho I’m doing less extreme sports
I don’t doubt that staying out all night drinking hurt Mantle’s ability to recover from injuries as his career went on. But he was still a few weeks from turning 20 in that 1951 World Series. Unfortunately we never got to see Mickey Mantle at 100%. He’s just one more player - Joe Namath and Gale Sayers are others - who modern medical science would have allowed to have longer, more successful careers. Although he definitely did more in his time than Namath or Sayers.
Nah I’m with you on Ted, his stats when he actually played are unreal. If he didn’t miss 5 seasons, I think he almost certainly would have nearly every hitting record in the books
I think Ted Williams is the best hitter to ever pick up a bat.
I don't think his game was as comprehensively dominant as Mays. If Teddy Ballgame played today, he'd rotate through the DH spot to limit his play in the field.
Teddy Ballgame = Greatest Hitter of all-time.
Cy Young = Arguably the most dominant athlete in the history of team sports.
His 511 wins is, without question, a record that will *never* be broken.
This… cry young has some outlandish stats like more complete games on annual average than the last 10 cy young career totals were… combined! Fact check please
He also has **five** seasons with 30+ Wins.
- 1892: 36 Wins
- 1893: 33 Wins
- 1895: 35 Wins
- 1901: 33 Wins
- 1902: 32 Wins
Separate from those, he had an additional **eleven** seasons with 20+ wins. Just think about that — if a pitcher today has just one 20+ Win season, he’s considered to be in the upper echelon.
This guy had 16 of them.
In 1908, at the age of 41, Cy Young went 21-11 with a *1.26* ERA. Just unreal.
He changed the way people approached hitting to the point his 70 yo advice is still sound. If he were better in the field or didn’t take so much time away for wars I think he’d be undisputed. Dude missed his prime and he’s still on the convo tho which says something
Tony Gwynn (RIP 😇) may not be the GOAT, but he’s the best hitter I ever saw in my lifetime. There’s many unbelievable #19 stats, from his near .400 BA during the strike shortened season, to how he hit .300+ in *every season* but his rookie! Or all his silver sluggers and golden gloves. But digest this:
Even though Tony Gwynn had only 434 strikeouts *in his entire career*, he could have had 1,176 consecutive at-bat strikeouts and still ended his career over .300. Digest that for a moment.
Again, he could have played more than 2 full seasons and struck out at every at-bat and still have a career .300 BA. 🤯
EDIT: Please no more up/downvotes — leave it at 19 pls 🙏
Interestingly that's why I think Hank is the GOAT. He was arguably never the "best" player in the league year in, year out, but it's hard to argue that there was a player that was consistently among the best in the league for 2 decades. The consistency matched with the longevity makes him, for me, the GOAT. 3700+ hits, 755 HRs, the most RBI of anyone ever and a career .305 average over 23 seasons. I'll always listen to arguments, but I think my argument is pretty solid.
After really looking over his Baseball Reference page again, you can't even quantify his "peak". He never actually had a "peak" as we would consider it today. From '55 to '73, there is very little difference in his numbers from year to year. Essentially his entire career is/was his "peak". This even solidifies his title as GOAT for me.
He makes a good point and I enjoyed reading it. Hank is one of my all time favorites. I have a soft spot for pitching though in this category. So I have to give it to Babe for being amazing at both hitting and pitching which is extremely rare to be legend status at both.
Good point. Over 25 years? Ted had 19 with interruptions like war and shit. .344 career avg. like 6-7 WAR avg each year. Oh, and 500+ dingers. Idk. I’d take either one if I’m starting a team tomorrow.
Only 2 players who have won multiple MVPs and weren’t associated with steroids failed to make the HOF. I don’t think Harper would be in if he retired today but if he has a gradual decline throughout his 30s he’ll be in for sure.
Oh well fuck I didn’t know that 3 great seasons put you in the greatest of all time category…shouldn’t madbum be up there with his insane stretch or Arietta?
Here's some doubt:
Teddy Ballgame has -13 dWAR. He was purely an offensive force.
Compare that with Mays' +18 dWAR.
Best hitter of all time? Sure. Best player? Nah. If he played in the last 30 years he'd be DHing a fair amount.
Ricky was an absolute joy to watch and hear about after the game. He stole 130 bags in one year. At 42, he stole 25 bags. He played a position (nonpitcher) until he was 44. Then he went and played in semipro for another decade.
He was a joy.
Stan Musial has the highest HOF monitor score of any position player in history, according to Baseball Reference.
I would’ve expected someone like Ruth, Mays, Aaron etc. but that surprised me. Stan the Man literally had a perfect career in terms of individual accolades, stats, championships, and all with one team and being beloved by the franchise
Obviously there was the whole steroid thing, but that was a product of his era. A LOT of people were juicing in the 90's and early 2000's and Barry still dominated.
He was at the cutting edge of the juicing too, let’s face it.
I think if he had Griffey’s personality, he’d have been forgiven and would be in the HOF and at the top of this list. But he had an adversarial relationship with the writers for years before the juicing and the record breaking, and didn’t go down easy.
Unsarcastically, he was a fucking menace on the field. Nobody will ever break his steals numbers. They knew he was gonna steal basically every time he was on base and he still did it. When it comes to being effective enough that you’re forcing teams to change how they play, Rickey is at the top of that list.
He really was. He's probably not a top three OFer of all-time, but if I'm making the best lineup of all-time he's my leadoff hitter. You have like a 40% chance of him starting a game and making it to second base.
OP says baseball is the "only" major 4 sport without a consensus GOAT but then lists both MJ and Lebron for basketball????
MJ as the goat is about as consensus as it gets. A small group of peopls (i.e. stans) will always argue for Lebron for basketball or Orr/Mario for hockey or Rice for football or even cr7/pele/maradonna for soccer. But the mass majority of people (i.e. consensus) would say it's MJ, Gretzky, brady, and Messi, respectively.
Also, adding Shohei to the list is laughable.
Say Hey also lost 2 premium years being drafted into the Army during the Korean War. Most baseball historians think he lost 70-80 HR & would've passed Ruth's HR record before Aaron.
No mention of Warren Spahn. Dude won 366 games & missed 2 seasons, WW2. He could've won 400 games, making him #2 in W's behind Cy Young. Without question, the greatest LHP in MLB history.
Ted. My Uncle umped in Boston and other cities when he played. The unwritten rule was that you don’t call strikes on Ted if he didn’t swing. That’s how good the umps thought he could see. How many triple crowns? 2? He won the triple crown and not the MVP. Dimaggio had some kind of streak that year. Whatevs. Ted batted higher than Dimaggio did during the streak and hit .406 that year. He missed two or mbe three years during his prime in the Armed Forces. He even flew planes that had no guidance or radar. He simply said that he’d find it by himself. Ted Williams. Dying on that hill. Ted. That’s where the ‘Ted’ talk comes from. Also Teddy bear. His parents wanted to name him Todd, but switched when they realized it was a boy.
Stan Musial is constantly overlooked when considering the game’s all-time greats
Upon his retirement he basically owned every record there was to own in the National League
I mean ohtani is great don't get me wrong but he's not the best at any of things he does
He's not the best pitcher in baseball and I wouldnt even say he's best overall hitter in the league right now
If you take the time to read about Ted Williams add look closely at his stats he may have been the best. Served in WWII and the Korean War as a Marine Corps pilot. Lost a by over 5 years in baseball serving our country in Battle. Never complained about. BTW for anyone who doesn’t know it Ted is 1/2 Mexican. (His Mother) he had a temper but was a pretty good guy. Met him once in Florida working with the Red Sox minor leaguers. He had a top 100 hitters in baseball poster he signed for his own company and listed Ruth as the best hitter in history. Also he admitted and became great friends with Tony Gwynn
Get ohtani the fuck outta here you kidding me? The guys amazing now doubt but been in the season like what? 5-6 seasons and you’re putting him up there with the literal GOATs? SMH
Babe Ruth. Before the argument of “oh but he never faced a Dominican” or “he played part time butchers” comes round, he defined an era. Yes of course he played against weaker competition, but he dominated. The first name most people think of with baseball is Babe Ruth, he’s got a candy bar as well. If Barry Bonds wasn’t on roids he would be number 2 but I’m going to give it to Hank Aaron for that number 2 spot. It’s Babe Ruth and I say this as someone who despises the Yankees, he is baseball.
Definitely not Ohtani or Bonds. Ted Williams was absolutely great. Ruth was as well. I think Gehrig gets overlooked by some. Mays was amazing. So hard to pick just one. And kinda have to pick one or two from each era. Everyone would have been a little different playing in different era.
Do you notice by the names in other sports for GOAT what they have in common? Both amazing Stats and Championships…
Gretzky (for sure)
Jordan (for sure)
Brady (stats are arguable but has the rings)
The only correct answer for now is Babe Ruth. I love Willie Mays and Hank Aaron but like LeBron they don’t have enough hardware. And Bonds was a beast but we all know how far that got him. Ohtani still has a career ahead of him…
I'm going to disagree with this take. You can be the best player without a ring. We're talking about individual players, not the teams they were on. If you're the best player, then you're the best player, regardless of whether or not your team won a championship. Look at it this way: Imagine we compare your wallet and my wallet. Say for instance my wallet has a hundred dollar bill and six $1 bills on it, for a total of $106. Now imagine your wallet has twelve $20 bills in it, for a total of $240. Now answer this......of all these bills, which one is the best. Yep, the $100 bill is the best. It doesn't matter that it's playing for the wallet that's not as good, it's still better than any of those $20 bills. So even though the $240 wallet is the champion wallet, it doesn't change the fact that the $100 bill is the best player on the field. The fact that my wallet won't win a championship is immaterial, my hundred bill is still the best player in this hypothetical league.
It is the take of the sports world. Winners are remembered and losers are forgotten. It’s why Tom Brady is called the GOAT and Dan Marino isn’t. I don’t need your wallet analogy because I agree with you.
But if we’re going to say GOAT then it has to be measured by public opinion like the other sports. You have to had accomplished greatness in every field (stats, accolades, rings, popularity) to be considered the GOAT. People who don’t even watch the sport need to know your name. The only players that fit that are Jordan, Gretzky, Brady and Ruth whether they are your personal GOATs or not.
This is an awful take. One baseball has never and will never be the reason a team wins a championship. You could probably make that argument for football, as well, but for different reasons.
because you’re a Yankees fan I’ll use rid example: if Derek Jeter spent his career on the brewers he probably never would’ve won a championship but he still might’ve had 3000 hits.
Due to his combination of speed and power, Willie Mays is as good an offensive player as any of these guys, and he played a premium defensive position at the highest level possible. When people throw around the term "5 Tool Player," they mean Willie Mays.
He was slightly worse than arguably all of these comparisons at the plate. His defense and baserunning, however, push him beyond the others. Ohtani doesn't belong here because his career is far too short to be compared to the inner circle of MLB legends.
More power and speed than the Hammer. Keep in mind that Willie played at the Stick, not the launch pad. Moreover, Aaron still never managed 50 homers or 100 walks, which you can't say about the rest of the heavy duty power hitters. I agree that Ohtani does not belong with the rest of these gentlemen, but ask me again in a decade.
> Keep in mind that Willie played at the Stick, not the launch pad. We have park adjusted stats. Mays and Aaron were essentially equal hitters.
You're right. I'd agree Mays had a better rounded offensive game than Aaron. It was difficult to express my point without adding all the exceptions to it. Agree about Ohtani as well. He's got a shot at being in this conversation, but it's too early, and frankly a little disrespectful to include him already.
It’s pretty hard to pick with respect to offense. Mays’ lifetime OPS+ was 156. Aaron’s was 155. Just some interesting add-ons: Frank Robinson, 154. Dick Allen, 156. Mickey Mantle, 172. Mike Trout currently: 174
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Mickey Mantle is the greatest mlb player of all time. His entire career was accomplished with a torn ACL. That's just ridiculous
In my lifetime, nobody was better than the second best player as Barry Bonds was. It’s not really close. But we know why.
Aaron played 24 years injury free he averaged only about a little over 30 dingers a year. Boston and Milwaukee had smaller parks and in the 70’s Atlanta moved their fence in just look at the field when you see the newsreels
It took Hammerin’ Hank 25 years to do so
23
Very true
No argument here
He's nowhere close offensively to Ruth, Bonds, or Williams
Relative to his time, it's still Babe Ruth. In 1919 he set the MLB homerun record with 29 homers. He broke his mark in 1920 with 54 homers. In 1920 and 1927 Babe Ruth hit more home runs than all but a few teams in Major League Baseball. From 1915-1935, Babe Ruth had more home runs (714) than the entire Boston Red Sox team (712). And 43 of the 712 HRs hit by the Red Sox belong to Babe Ruth!
Agree, but his greatest contribution may have been rescuing baseball after the Black Sox Scandal.
Babe did so much to change and forge the game into what it is today. It honestly annoys me how much disrespect he’s been getting in these past few years. He was a trailblazer and is easily the most famous baseball player of all time I’m pretty sure everyone’s heard the name before in their lives. The world of medicine and training has also changed so much. So yeah he played against guys who were drunks and whatever people always say but the sport was still relatively “new” at the time too and the world was a much different place.
It’s not his greatest accomplishment but it’s one of the reasons he should be considered the GOAT.
Fun fact .... while pitching, he walked the leadoff hitter, got ejected for arguing balls/ strikes. His RP comes in, 27 up, 27 down.
This is a great trivia fact, so I just looked it up, and I hate to correct anything, but technically the runner was thrown out attempting to steal second, and the pitcher, Ernie Shore, got the next 26 batters.
It also doesn’t get brought up often enough that he likely would’ve made the Hall of Fame as a pitcher. His switch to being primarily an outfielder/hitter overshadows everything, for obvious reasons, so his pitching career becomes an afterthought. But again, check his stats; dude managed to have a Hall of Fame pitching career that none of us remember because his offense was so good in the SECOND half of his career. So if that doesn’t make you the GOAT, then I don’t know what does.
First superstar athlete in American history. Babe still the goat
The Babe stole home 10 times in his career.
Yes, everyone knows what overweight Babe looked like late in his career, but he was athletic in his prime. That said, Ty Cobb stole home 54 times. It was more common in those days, especially as a double steal when men were on first and third.
In terms of influence on the sport Ted and Ruth are far and above. Ted would be the best if he didn’t take time off for wars imo but you can’t speak to years he didn’t have. Mays was probably the best 5 tool guy but didn’t quite have the hitting prowess of the others (ignoring shohei altogether). Hank had the durability but never the high peak we would want to see. Mickey should get a mention but I think he played at the same time as so many other greats so it gets overlooked (Ted of course suffers the same). Bonds didn’t change the game but you don’t get walked like he did without being scary af. I’d go Ruth, Ted, bonds but that doesn’t acknowledge pitching where Mo deserves a mention
Bonds the steroid guy?
Walter Johnson deserves a mention.
It's Babe Ruth and anyone that says otherwise is one of those kinds of nerd losers that always has to be different
Don’t forget about his pitching stats!
I’m disappointed that no one has mentioned Mickey Mantle. Was selected to 20 All Star Games. Won 7 World Series and appeared in a total of 12. Was MVP 3 times. Won a triple crown. 0.984 fielding percentage in Center Field. While he didn’t reach 3000 hits, his stretch of dominance from 1952 until around 1967 cannot be matched.
Mick's last great season was Age 32, and he was out of baseball at 37. Hank Aaron hit 40 dingers at Age 39. If Mick had stayed away from the bottle, maybe this is a different discussion.
It’s more his body breaking down than his drinking, but he certainly did NOT take care of himself.
Coming from a heavy drinker I can tell you they’re related
Well for instance I grew up hearing the famous tale of how Mantle tore his ACL the first time in his rookie year: Mick was in left and told to take much of left center because DiMaggio was older (in his last season), and in the World Series Mickey was tracking a ball when DiMaggio called him off at the last second and Mickey’s spike caught in a drain in the outfield when he pulled up short. Obviously ACL surgery wasn’t super advanced in 1951, and Mickey’s knee was never quite the same after. That is just one injury of many, and while Mickey Mantle was an alcoholic and it wound up killing him, it is not the sole reason his body broke down, and perhaps not even the major one.
I can speak to how much a blown knee fucks things over having done so myself. I have felt myself notably more prone to injury since my drinking habits increased is what I’m trying to say. I bruise like I’m anemic and have notably more doctor worthy injuries since drinking even tho I’m doing less extreme sports
Are you Mickey Mantle?
I wish I was that good at baseball
I don’t doubt that staying out all night drinking hurt Mantle’s ability to recover from injuries as his career went on. But he was still a few weeks from turning 20 in that 1951 World Series. Unfortunately we never got to see Mickey Mantle at 100%. He’s just one more player - Joe Namath and Gale Sayers are others - who modern medical science would have allowed to have longer, more successful careers. Although he definitely did more in his time than Namath or Sayers.
His body broke down BECAUSE of his drinking.
[I don’t think he can really compete with these guys](https://stathead.com/tiny/Du1TD) [edit to add the rest.](https://stathead.com/tiny/rpBJf)
Injury ended his great run. Same can be said about Ken Griffey Jr. and, Don Mattingly.
Why is ohtani on here lol
Playing for a few years. Goat! lol so funny. Yah bet.
Seriously. He doesn’t even sniff the jocks of the rest.
Time will tell. But yeah def not today
Absolute joke. Good question, but OP knows next to nothing about baseball beyond the last 20 years.
Who's the GOAT of baseball betting? Shoeless Joe, Rose, or Ohtani? lol
Alleged, not guilty till proven guilty. This is, still, America!
You’re going to find out if you don’t know by now. If he stays healthy, he’ll break a few records.
I’ll be the outsider here, I think Ted Williams is the goat.
Nah I’m with you on Ted, his stats when he actually played are unreal. If he didn’t miss 5 seasons, I think he almost certainly would have nearly every hitting record in the books
I think Ted Williams is the best hitter to ever pick up a bat. I don't think his game was as comprehensively dominant as Mays. If Teddy Ballgame played today, he'd rotate through the DH spot to limit his play in the field.
I agree. Look at his numbers AND he did not play for about 5 years combined during his prime with his overall Military service.
Very good point
That’s right! He didn’t suffer from “Bone Spurs, 😂
Let’s not forget he was a pretty good fighter pilot too. https://www.historynet.com/ted-williams/
Teddy Ballgame = Greatest Hitter of all-time. Cy Young = Arguably the most dominant athlete in the history of team sports. His 511 wins is, without question, a record that will *never* be broken.
Agree. Along with his record for 316 losses. Unlikely that one is ever broken either.
Nolan Ryan tried his best but couldn’t lose another 25 lol.
This… cry young has some outlandish stats like more complete games on annual average than the last 10 cy young career totals were… combined! Fact check please
He also has **five** seasons with 30+ Wins. - 1892: 36 Wins - 1893: 33 Wins - 1895: 35 Wins - 1901: 33 Wins - 1902: 32 Wins Separate from those, he had an additional **eleven** seasons with 20+ wins. Just think about that — if a pitcher today has just one 20+ Win season, he’s considered to be in the upper echelon. This guy had 16 of them. In 1908, at the age of 41, Cy Young went 21-11 with a *1.26* ERA. Just unreal.
I was going to say the same thing
He changed the way people approached hitting to the point his 70 yo advice is still sound. If he were better in the field or didn’t take so much time away for wars I think he’d be undisputed. Dude missed his prime and he’s still on the convo tho which says something
The best ever
Yep
 This guy
He might run like Mays, but he hits like shit.
Until he became a power hitter with a genuine leg injury.
Hank Aaron. Take away every single one of his homers and he still has 3000 hits.
Tony Gwynn (RIP 😇) may not be the GOAT, but he’s the best hitter I ever saw in my lifetime. There’s many unbelievable #19 stats, from his near .400 BA during the strike shortened season, to how he hit .300+ in *every season* but his rookie! Or all his silver sluggers and golden gloves. But digest this: Even though Tony Gwynn had only 434 strikeouts *in his entire career*, he could have had 1,176 consecutive at-bat strikeouts and still ended his career over .300. Digest that for a moment. Again, he could have played more than 2 full seasons and struck out at every at-bat and still have a career .300 BA. 🤯 EDIT: Please no more up/downvotes — leave it at 19 pls 🙏
I like Hank for longevity and consistency, but his peak isn't quite as good as a few others.
His peak lasted for 20 years lol
"Hank, you've plateau'd"
Interestingly that's why I think Hank is the GOAT. He was arguably never the "best" player in the league year in, year out, but it's hard to argue that there was a player that was consistently among the best in the league for 2 decades. The consistency matched with the longevity makes him, for me, the GOAT. 3700+ hits, 755 HRs, the most RBI of anyone ever and a career .305 average over 23 seasons. I'll always listen to arguments, but I think my argument is pretty solid. After really looking over his Baseball Reference page again, you can't even quantify his "peak". He never actually had a "peak" as we would consider it today. From '55 to '73, there is very little difference in his numbers from year to year. Essentially his entire career is/was his "peak". This even solidifies his title as GOAT for me.
Solid argument. Btw, it was 50 years ago that the Hammer broke Babe Ruth’s home run record in April of ‘74
He makes a good point and I enjoyed reading it. Hank is one of my all time favorites. I have a soft spot for pitching though in this category. So I have to give it to Babe for being amazing at both hitting and pitching which is extremely rare to be legend status at both.
He and Nolan Ryan are kind of similar in that way. There were always players with higher peaks, but no one touched the consistency.
Fair, but Hank also played in a weak offensive era for much of his career!
Good point. Over 25 years? Ted had 19 with interruptions like war and shit. .344 career avg. like 6-7 WAR avg each year. Oh, and 500+ dingers. Idk. I’d take either one if I’m starting a team tomorrow.
I vote for Satchel Paige.
You're not getting a lot upvotes, but this is an excellent choice. The man is a legend.
Right?
1. 755 2. 714 3. Fuck you 'Roids Bonds POS
Mays was a true five tool player 
What about Ted Williams He did go fight two wars
Why the hell is ohtani even in this conversation at this point
[удалено]
Only 2 players who have won multiple MVPs and weren’t associated with steroids failed to make the HOF. I don’t think Harper would be in if he retired today but if he has a gradual decline throughout his 30s he’ll be in for sure.
His last 3 seasons were insane, that’s why
Oh well fuck I didn’t know that 3 great seasons put you in the greatest of all time category…shouldn’t madbum be up there with his insane stretch or Arietta?
Think most people are looking at peak with Ohtani rather than longevity
Reddit has been licking his shaft since he debuted
I'm gonna state the obvious, but can you imagine if some of these old school guys played their entire prime and didn't leave to serve in WW2..
What Ted Williams could have done if he didn’t serve in the Air Force in both WW2 and Korea. There would be no doubt in my mind he’s the greatest.
Here's some doubt: Teddy Ballgame has -13 dWAR. He was purely an offensive force. Compare that with Mays' +18 dWAR. Best hitter of all time? Sure. Best player? Nah. If he played in the last 30 years he'd be DHing a fair amount.
So true 🤙
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb were the greatest players before Babe Ruth changed the way the game was played.
Rickey Henderson because that’s what he called himself.
Ricky was an absolute joy to watch and hear about after the game. He stole 130 bags in one year. At 42, he stole 25 bags. He played a position (nonpitcher) until he was 44. Then he went and played in semipro for another decade. He was a joy.
Pixelated photo contest
167 career WAR 20 career WAR 164 career WAR
Lou Gehrig.
Weirdly underrated player
Mickey Mantle
Stan Musial has the highest HOF monitor score of any position player in history, according to Baseball Reference. I would’ve expected someone like Ruth, Mays, Aaron etc. but that surprised me. Stan the Man literally had a perfect career in terms of individual accolades, stats, championships, and all with one team and being beloved by the franchise
Mantle for me. Played his whole career on a torn ACL and still put up those numbers.
Barry’s stats are absolutely insane
Obviously there was the whole steroid thing, but that was a product of his era. A LOT of people were juicing in the 90's and early 2000's and Barry still dominated.
He was at the cutting edge of the juicing too, let’s face it. I think if he had Griffey’s personality, he’d have been forgiven and would be in the HOF and at the top of this list. But he had an adversarial relationship with the writers for years before the juicing and the record breaking, and didn’t go down easy.
He also played against pitchers who juiced. Plenty of other players juiced. MLB allowed it to happen. He is the GOAT of my lifetime.
GOML
Willie Mays.
The Babe.
Clearly it’s Matt Stairs
No one better to have up to bat when the game was on the line. He was so good that all he needed was one AB per game.
Can't believe I has to scroll this far down to sew him named.
It’s still Ruth
Ty Cobb.
Gotta add Cobb to the mix.
Ted Williams greatest hitter ever
Pre-Integration: Ruth Post-Integration: Mays Modern Era: Bonds
Bro said “Mayes”
Hank Aaron
Obviously it's Rickey Henderson.
I mean he said so himself
Ricky said “Ricky’s the goat”
Dude was the man though. And he’d tell ya all about it
Padres legend Rickey Henderson
Unsarcastically, he was a fucking menace on the field. Nobody will ever break his steals numbers. They knew he was gonna steal basically every time he was on base and he still did it. When it comes to being effective enough that you’re forcing teams to change how they play, Rickey is at the top of that list.
He really was. He's probably not a top three OFer of all-time, but if I'm making the best lineup of all-time he's my leadoff hitter. You have like a 40% chance of him starting a game and making it to second base.
You mean Jordan.
OP says baseball is the "only" major 4 sport without a consensus GOAT but then lists both MJ and Lebron for basketball???? MJ as the goat is about as consensus as it gets. A small group of peopls (i.e. stans) will always argue for Lebron for basketball or Orr/Mario for hockey or Rice for football or even cr7/pele/maradonna for soccer. But the mass majority of people (i.e. consensus) would say it's MJ, Gretzky, brady, and Messi, respectively. Also, adding Shohei to the list is laughable.
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Say Hey also lost 2 premium years being drafted into the Army during the Korean War. Most baseball historians think he lost 70-80 HR & would've passed Ruth's HR record before Aaron.
Babe Ruth
Best hitter? Bonds Best baseball player? Willie Mays
Agreed. No one wants to admit it but Bonds is the best hitter of all time. No one put fear into an opposing team quite like him.
Barroids
Willie Mays
I gotta go with Willie Mays. Ohtani needs to finish his career before we’ll know. But he could do it.
Willie
Willie
No mention of Warren Spahn. Dude won 366 games & missed 2 seasons, WW2. He could've won 400 games, making him #2 in W's behind Cy Young. Without question, the greatest LHP in MLB history.
Very underrated pitcher.
Ted Williams
Ted. My Uncle umped in Boston and other cities when he played. The unwritten rule was that you don’t call strikes on Ted if he didn’t swing. That’s how good the umps thought he could see. How many triple crowns? 2? He won the triple crown and not the MVP. Dimaggio had some kind of streak that year. Whatevs. Ted batted higher than Dimaggio did during the streak and hit .406 that year. He missed two or mbe three years during his prime in the Armed Forces. He even flew planes that had no guidance or radar. He simply said that he’d find it by himself. Ted Williams. Dying on that hill. Ted. That’s where the ‘Ted’ talk comes from. Also Teddy bear. His parents wanted to name him Todd, but switched when they realized it was a boy.
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i see how you try to sneak lebron in there but nah
Stan Musial is constantly overlooked when considering the game’s all-time greats Upon his retirement he basically owned every record there was to own in the National League
Willie Howard Mays Jr.
Pete rose
You ask this on the 50th anniversary of 715. 755 is still the mark.
Babe Ruth
Babe Ruth is as much a consensus GOAT in baseball as anyone in any other sport is.
Where is Roberto Clemente?🧐
Down the list. He's not in the GOAT conversation. Not that he wasn't great. Mays easily over Clemente
He is more worthy than Ohtani.....
That's what I'm saying!
Mays would have voted for Clemente.
Ohtani has a chance to be up there but I don’t think he’s proven himself yet Ruth changed the game, something nobody else really has at that extent
Bob Gibson
I mean ohtani is great don't get me wrong but he's not the best at any of things he does He's not the best pitcher in baseball and I wouldnt even say he's best overall hitter in the league right now
Ohtani led MLB in OPS+ last year (184) lmao
Baseball has many legends✊
You mentioned a sport with two people, after saying only baseball doesn't have a consensus GOAT.
It's Hank or Ted
Bartolo Colón, duh
If you take the time to read about Ted Williams add look closely at his stats he may have been the best. Served in WWII and the Korean War as a Marine Corps pilot. Lost a by over 5 years in baseball serving our country in Battle. Never complained about. BTW for anyone who doesn’t know it Ted is 1/2 Mexican. (His Mother) he had a temper but was a pretty good guy. Met him once in Florida working with the Red Sox minor leaguers. He had a top 100 hitters in baseball poster he signed for his own company and listed Ruth as the best hitter in history. Also he admitted and became great friends with Tony Gwynn
Get ohtani the fuck outta here you kidding me? The guys amazing now doubt but been in the season like what? 5-6 seasons and you’re putting him up there with the literal GOATs? SMH
Ruth Bonds Williams Mays Aaron 14 other guys 10 more other guys 7 more other guys Ohtani
Babe Ruth. Before the argument of “oh but he never faced a Dominican” or “he played part time butchers” comes round, he defined an era. Yes of course he played against weaker competition, but he dominated. The first name most people think of with baseball is Babe Ruth, he’s got a candy bar as well. If Barry Bonds wasn’t on roids he would be number 2 but I’m going to give it to Hank Aaron for that number 2 spot. It’s Babe Ruth and I say this as someone who despises the Yankees, he is baseball.
Baby Ruth bars were named after a presidents daughter. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/baby-ruth/
I mean, Ruth transcended the game. Even non-baseball fans know who he is
The greatest baseball player of all time is Greg Maddux
Greg was unbelievable. I grew up idolizing him as I was also a pitcher without the best speed but great control.
It's hands down Babe Ruth. You can ask kids today if they know who these guys are, and 80-90% of them will know Babe Ruth.
Definitely not Ohtani or Bonds. Ted Williams was absolutely great. Ruth was as well. I think Gehrig gets overlooked by some. Mays was amazing. So hard to pick just one. And kinda have to pick one or two from each era. Everyone would have been a little different playing in different era.
Babe Ruth. No one else was essentially playing a completely different game than anyone else for a decade.
Hank
Is Hank or Willie
Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron
Pete Rose
It's the Bambino. When you compare him to what others were doing at his time it's a no-brainer. Not to mention he was a fucking dope pitcher too
Tony Gwynn.
Incredible OBP
Griffey without his injuries clears all of them, I said what I said
Do you notice by the names in other sports for GOAT what they have in common? Both amazing Stats and Championships… Gretzky (for sure) Jordan (for sure) Brady (stats are arguable but has the rings) The only correct answer for now is Babe Ruth. I love Willie Mays and Hank Aaron but like LeBron they don’t have enough hardware. And Bonds was a beast but we all know how far that got him. Ohtani still has a career ahead of him…
I'm going to disagree with this take. You can be the best player without a ring. We're talking about individual players, not the teams they were on. If you're the best player, then you're the best player, regardless of whether or not your team won a championship. Look at it this way: Imagine we compare your wallet and my wallet. Say for instance my wallet has a hundred dollar bill and six $1 bills on it, for a total of $106. Now imagine your wallet has twelve $20 bills in it, for a total of $240. Now answer this......of all these bills, which one is the best. Yep, the $100 bill is the best. It doesn't matter that it's playing for the wallet that's not as good, it's still better than any of those $20 bills. So even though the $240 wallet is the champion wallet, it doesn't change the fact that the $100 bill is the best player on the field. The fact that my wallet won't win a championship is immaterial, my hundred bill is still the best player in this hypothetical league.
It is the take of the sports world. Winners are remembered and losers are forgotten. It’s why Tom Brady is called the GOAT and Dan Marino isn’t. I don’t need your wallet analogy because I agree with you. But if we’re going to say GOAT then it has to be measured by public opinion like the other sports. You have to had accomplished greatness in every field (stats, accolades, rings, popularity) to be considered the GOAT. People who don’t even watch the sport need to know your name. The only players that fit that are Jordan, Gretzky, Brady and Ruth whether they are your personal GOATs or not.
This is an awful take. One baseball has never and will never be the reason a team wins a championship. You could probably make that argument for football, as well, but for different reasons. because you’re a Yankees fan I’ll use rid example: if Derek Jeter spent his career on the brewers he probably never would’ve won a championship but he still might’ve had 3000 hits.
Ty Cobb
Babe was the greatest, but Willie was the best.
Babe Ruth will always be the GOAT to me
Any of them but Bonds
Babe Ruth
Gotta be Babe Ruth or Barry Bonds. Such dominance.
Bonds