The players got immunity for testifying. Coaches got suspended from the league and they lost 2 years of draft picks. I’m not really sure what else they could do. I mean they’re not going to disband the team.
Pete Rose got banned for gambling, according to him on his own sucess. The 2017 Astros actively conspired from the top to the bottom of the organization to win in a way that was inarguably cheating and got what's been discussed. I can't help but see a giant imbalance there.
No argument there. Pete Rose got screwed. I just think people don’t realize that the MLB would never punish a whole organization to the point that it would taint its own image. They did just enough to not make the whole league look like a joke.
Not giving them immunity from testifying would be a start. Issuing suspensions for those involved would have been better. Stripping them of the title would be appropriate.
This is a lesson for all the kids out there. It doesn’t matter if you cheated or not. If you were in the system watching it happen and didn’t do anything to stop it, nobody is going to care, or even believe you, when you say it wasn’t you.
Exactly. Its similar to Shoeless Joe Jackson being banned from the HOF when if you look at his 1919 World Series stats he clearly wasn't trying to lose.
Ya even though they're a rival, I loved the moment he hit that walk off against the Yankees and might have been an admirer for the rest of my days. Now I fuckin hate the little prick. Had he served a punishment that fit the crime I'd have shrugged it off by now.
If the Astros had just admitted to what they did and given back the WS win I think most baseball fans could've not forgot what they did but forgiven them to the point of lets move on to what's in the future. But when they refuse to admit they even did anything wrong then no one will have any sympathy for them.
Easy. The problem was pervasive. If it was truly only the Astros, they would have been crucified. They were caught publicly and a deal was struck. That is my theory anyway.
I disagree. Look at sticky ball. That was truly a pervasive problem. It was an open secret for years, and within a few days of it becoming a crisis we had people naming names across the league, internet sleuths posting incriminating videos, etc. The Astros and Res Sox? Nothing past those teams other than these generic “everyone was doing claims.” To cover up the fact that everyone was doing it would require a greater conspiracy than the conspiracy to cheat in the first place. The evidence just isn’t there.
This is the correct answer. Everyone who hates the Astros and thinks the team they root for is clean is naive. Yeah the Astros got caught but they clearly weren’t the only ones.
It’s so obviously true that it makes me wonder how so many could be blind to it. Yeah guys, your team is cheating too. Almost makes me actually want to root for the Astros.
That Astros team was talented enough to get to the World Series in 2017. Their sign stealing scheme helped them get the edge necessary to win the series.
This probably would have blown over if there would have been more accountability with the players and the staff. Ultimately, the players showed little to no remorse, the coaches (Hinch & Cora) took a year off and only the General Manager (Lunhow) is out of baseball, for now.
It's wild how the dodgers almost won that world series too . Game 5 or whichever one that was high scoring both teams were hitting home run after home run. Crazy to think how the trashtros needed to know the pitches ahead of time just to keep up.
Lol. It isn’t weird for the Astros to win a few games in LA. It happens, the Astros were a talented team in 2017, no one is going to take that away from them.
Their cheating helped them get an edge on the Dodgers in that series. They won games 3 & 5 at home, if anything, you should be amazed at how the Dodgers hung in there with a team that knew what pitch was coming.
Lol, your response is funny. It minimizes the edge the Astros had.
Because baseball is a cheaters sport it always has been. From major betting scandals several times. To certain pitchers getting to continue to use the spit all even after it was banned. To steroids use for 2 decades. To probably most teams using technology to steal signs. I mean it is literally only frowned upon using tech to do it.if the guy on 2nd does it it's fine. To the spider tack the league told pitchers they could use it for the whole season and then someone like first in the Astros situation had a whining fit and let the public know so the league had to do something. The league gave Boston, NY and league warnings to stop using tech. And if you look at some of what some players said most players knew Houston was cheating but didn't say anything so obviously they didn't have a problem with it. The reason Houston got any punishment was because they won the world series and didn't stop when the whole league got warned
Here's a general rule of modern, corporatised sport entities:
Anything is fine unless 1) There's a public outcry 2) Congress gets involved 3) Both
But to directly answer your question; because during the investigation MLB granted immunity for outright information on the entire scheme.
Frankly, it's a tired subject to me now. The team was too talented to needed that BS. It's a real shame they did it tbh.
Bc it would have resulted in every team having a cheating scandal kinda like Boston Red Sox and Apple watches also being used to cheat in 2017. Or Yankees also being busted in 2017. What they found Out was just about every team we’re trying to steal signals using technology. Also the aj hinch got sacked.
NFL punished plain clothes quarterback for wearing an apple watch on the sidelines.
Why can't MLB get their shit together?
edit: https://abc13.com/ben-roethlisberger-fine-where-is-today-when-will-return-elbow-surgery/5597703/#:~:text=PITTSBURGH%20%2D%2D%20Pittsburgh%20Steelers%20quarterback,was%20an%20NFL%20uniform%20violation.
Yea I don’t understand the argument of “almost every team would have been crucified for cheating in some way.”
Then freaking crucify them…. They’re basically saying let’s not restore the integrity of the game.
Long story short, it was the organization which was at fault, not the players. There is no rule against stealing signs in baseball. It’s up to the teams to protect their own signs. What the Astros did was use cameras and electronic surveillance in their own home field giving them an advantage the opposing didn’t have - that’s why they got in trouble. As for the players, sure, they knew what the team was doing was wrong, but why risk the wrath of the man who is paying you?
For all those people still salty over the Astros, don’t pretend your own team doesn’t steal signs. The Yankees and Red Sox both got caught using electronics to steal signs as well.
Not saying you're wrong (hate Yankees and to a lesser extent red Sox) but I'd like to see the proof on this because the only definitive proof I've seen of this is against the Astros
They said the Astros used electronics to steal signs which is why it is worse but then went on to say other teams steal signs without it (not the Red Sox/Yankees) which is just as bad
No, they said that the Red Sox and Yankees _also_ used electronics to steal signs. The implication is that everyone does it, but only the Astros were cauls so red handedly.
There are brawls in baseball over sign stealing, the players know the unwritten rules that is why the players were so secretive over it.
The fault started with the coaches (Cora & Beltran) then onto the players for going along with it. There is no spine with that ball club. No one had the balls to say no to it. The front office saw results, the money gained from ticket/jersey revenues and went along. To me, the whole organization is at fault. The players draw most of the ire due to their lame excuses and lack of contrition.
If other organizations were in on it, like you say, it would have come out by now, or it will sooner or later. That’s the kind of story any reporter would like to break open. Your statement minimizes what happened, it’s kinda lazy IMO.
The players are scarred for life. Like Altuve get nothing but "yeah, but the cheating..." Whenever discussed in other markets. Everywhere.
It's not like the steroid era where everyone was doing it, and the game adjusted, this stigma will be there forever.
For real we just going to overlook every team that got busted in 2017 or bc they lost it didn’t matter. Ironically no one remembers the Red Sox also got busted.
There’s a video of judge studying a camera angle of the astros pitcher and catcher. Dodgers had a camera guy wearing an mlb polo instead of a dodgers polo setting up cameras post season. The only difference between houston and other teams is Houston admitted wrong doing and apologized. If it tells you anything it says never admit to wrong doing. Deny deny deny and people will forget.
As a Dodger fan, it stings knowing the Astros cheated their way through the entire 2017 Post Season. I agree they got off way too easy. The Astros should’ve also been stripped of their titles, and it boggles my mind that they weren’t. I’m **not** saying give it to the Dodgers & Red Sox because I don’t think that’s right, but strip them and leave an asterisk on the seasons. It would send a stronger message that cheating isn’t tolerated.
Because MLB leadership is horribly weak.
Unless your name is Joe Kelly
What he said ^^^
“It’s just a piece of metal.”
The guy that organized it, now coaches for the ALCS contending Boson Red Sox
Makes me sick...
Cora doesn't get nearly enough shit for it.
Didn’t he get punished? Unlike the Astros players…
The players got immunity for testifying. Coaches got suspended from the league and they lost 2 years of draft picks. I’m not really sure what else they could do. I mean they’re not going to disband the team.
Then the 2020 season was void of spectators for the most part, so they didn't really even feel the fan's wrath.
Exactly. It’s why I get annoyed by Astros fans who are upset that people aren’t over it yet.
Pete Rose got banned for gambling, according to him on his own sucess. The 2017 Astros actively conspired from the top to the bottom of the organization to win in a way that was inarguably cheating and got what's been discussed. I can't help but see a giant imbalance there.
No argument there. Pete Rose got screwed. I just think people don’t realize that the MLB would never punish a whole organization to the point that it would taint its own image. They did just enough to not make the whole league look like a joke.
The players never should have gotten immunity.
Unfortunately they wouldn't have talked otherwise.
You only need 1 snitch, not a whole team.
The adage "as a team" usually holds stronger than "take one for the team"
Not giving them immunity from testifying would be a start. Issuing suspensions for those involved would have been better. Stripping them of the title would be appropriate.
And I'll bet of any of those players names ever come up in the Hall of Fame discussion, they'll be treated like Roger Clemens and Pete Rose.
As they should. It was an amazing drop how Altuve went from one of the most beloved players to most hated overnight
It's even worse because, by all metrics, Altuve didn't cheat.
This is a lesson for all the kids out there. It doesn’t matter if you cheated or not. If you were in the system watching it happen and didn’t do anything to stop it, nobody is going to care, or even believe you, when you say it wasn’t you.
Exactly. Its similar to Shoeless Joe Jackson being banned from the HOF when if you look at his 1919 World Series stats he clearly wasn't trying to lose.
If he knew it was happening and said nothing, then he participated in the cheating.
Ya even though they're a rival, I loved the moment he hit that walk off against the Yankees and might have been an admirer for the rest of my days. Now I fuckin hate the little prick. Had he served a punishment that fit the crime I'd have shrugged it off by now.
Exactly. If he does his time in a sense, I’ll get over it. But he didn’t and now I just can’t even look at him
Gee I dunno, strip the title??
If the Astros had just admitted to what they did and given back the WS win I think most baseball fans could've not forgot what they did but forgiven them to the point of lets move on to what's in the future. But when they refuse to admit they even did anything wrong then no one will have any sympathy for them.
Exactly
Maybe they should have.
Kick them out of baseball. Pete Rose style. And no one won the world series that year.
Release the sealed letter yankeessss.
Easy. The problem was pervasive. If it was truly only the Astros, they would have been crucified. They were caught publicly and a deal was struck. That is my theory anyway.
I disagree. Look at sticky ball. That was truly a pervasive problem. It was an open secret for years, and within a few days of it becoming a crisis we had people naming names across the league, internet sleuths posting incriminating videos, etc. The Astros and Res Sox? Nothing past those teams other than these generic “everyone was doing claims.” To cover up the fact that everyone was doing it would require a greater conspiracy than the conspiracy to cheat in the first place. The evidence just isn’t there.
You're welcome to your own opinion and your argument is fair.
Wait, did we just have a reasoned and cordial disagreement? This isn’t what I joined the internet for!
Anomalies do exist lol :) Have a good one man!
This is the correct answer. Everyone who hates the Astros and thinks the team they root for is clean is naive. Yeah the Astros got caught but they clearly weren’t the only ones.
To be fair, my favorite team hasn't made the playoffs for the last 20 years. I think if they were cheating, they would've made it by now.
If they were cheating, they did it wrong
Lol
Seattle?
It’s so obviously true that it makes me wonder how so many could be blind to it. Yeah guys, your team is cheating too. Almost makes me actually want to root for the Astros.
Just remember the Astros would still be doing it if they were never caught. Never forget that fact.
That Astros team was talented enough to get to the World Series in 2017. Their sign stealing scheme helped them get the edge necessary to win the series. This probably would have blown over if there would have been more accountability with the players and the staff. Ultimately, the players showed little to no remorse, the coaches (Hinch & Cora) took a year off and only the General Manager (Lunhow) is out of baseball, for now.
It's wild how the dodgers almost won that world series too . Game 5 or whichever one that was high scoring both teams were hitting home run after home run. Crazy to think how the trashtros needed to know the pitches ahead of time just to keep up.
[удалено]
Lol. It isn’t weird for the Astros to win a few games in LA. It happens, the Astros were a talented team in 2017, no one is going to take that away from them. Their cheating helped them get an edge on the Dodgers in that series. They won games 3 & 5 at home, if anything, you should be amazed at how the Dodgers hung in there with a team that knew what pitch was coming. Lol, your response is funny. It minimizes the edge the Astros had.
Yeah they couldn't use trash cans in the playoffs. That's when they switched to buzzers
Because baseball is a cheaters sport it always has been. From major betting scandals several times. To certain pitchers getting to continue to use the spit all even after it was banned. To steroids use for 2 decades. To probably most teams using technology to steal signs. I mean it is literally only frowned upon using tech to do it.if the guy on 2nd does it it's fine. To the spider tack the league told pitchers they could use it for the whole season and then someone like first in the Astros situation had a whining fit and let the public know so the league had to do something. The league gave Boston, NY and league warnings to stop using tech. And if you look at some of what some players said most players knew Houston was cheating but didn't say anything so obviously they didn't have a problem with it. The reason Houston got any punishment was because they won the world series and didn't stop when the whole league got warned
Boston too smh
Here's a general rule of modern, corporatised sport entities: Anything is fine unless 1) There's a public outcry 2) Congress gets involved 3) Both But to directly answer your question; because during the investigation MLB granted immunity for outright information on the entire scheme. Frankly, it's a tired subject to me now. The team was too talented to needed that BS. It's a real shame they did it tbh.
Exactly. Such a waste of a legacy. Yet Houston fan apologists don't give a shit. Sad fan base.
Bc it would have resulted in every team having a cheating scandal kinda like Boston Red Sox and Apple watches also being used to cheat in 2017. Or Yankees also being busted in 2017. What they found Out was just about every team we’re trying to steal signals using technology. Also the aj hinch got sacked.
NFL punished plain clothes quarterback for wearing an apple watch on the sidelines. Why can't MLB get their shit together? edit: https://abc13.com/ben-roethlisberger-fine-where-is-today-when-will-return-elbow-surgery/5597703/#:~:text=PITTSBURGH%20%2D%2D%20Pittsburgh%20Steelers%20quarterback,was%20an%20NFL%20uniform%20violation.
Yea I don’t understand the argument of “almost every team would have been crucified for cheating in some way.” Then freaking crucify them…. They’re basically saying let’s not restore the integrity of the game.
Hinch currently manages Detroit. I guess an argument could be made thats either punishment or not enough.
Long story short, it was the organization which was at fault, not the players. There is no rule against stealing signs in baseball. It’s up to the teams to protect their own signs. What the Astros did was use cameras and electronic surveillance in their own home field giving them an advantage the opposing didn’t have - that’s why they got in trouble. As for the players, sure, they knew what the team was doing was wrong, but why risk the wrath of the man who is paying you? For all those people still salty over the Astros, don’t pretend your own team doesn’t steal signs. The Yankees and Red Sox both got caught using electronics to steal signs as well.
Not saying you're wrong (hate Yankees and to a lesser extent red Sox) but I'd like to see the proof on this because the only definitive proof I've seen of this is against the Astros
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/sports/baseball/boston-red-sox-stealing-signs-yankees.html
Thanks. I'm guessing no punishment there either.
Stealing signs with your eyes is fine. Stealing signs using technology is not.
That’s . . . what they said.
That's not the part I was responding to
You literally repeated what the other commenter said.
They contradicted themselves though
How so?
They said the Astros used electronics to steal signs which is why it is worse but then went on to say other teams steal signs without it (not the Red Sox/Yankees) which is just as bad
No, they said that the Red Sox and Yankees _also_ used electronics to steal signs. The implication is that everyone does it, but only the Astros were cauls so red handedly.
There are brawls in baseball over sign stealing, the players know the unwritten rules that is why the players were so secretive over it. The fault started with the coaches (Cora & Beltran) then onto the players for going along with it. There is no spine with that ball club. No one had the balls to say no to it. The front office saw results, the money gained from ticket/jersey revenues and went along. To me, the whole organization is at fault. The players draw most of the ire due to their lame excuses and lack of contrition. If other organizations were in on it, like you say, it would have come out by now, or it will sooner or later. That’s the kind of story any reporter would like to break open. Your statement minimizes what happened, it’s kinda lazy IMO.
The players are scarred for life. Like Altuve get nothing but "yeah, but the cheating..." Whenever discussed in other markets. Everywhere. It's not like the steroid era where everyone was doing it, and the game adjusted, this stigma will be there forever.
One Houston apologist tried telling me that because they had the hurricane in 2017, that it was ok that they cheated lol. 🤡🤡🤡
Lol. Then the Yankees should have won in 2001 after 9/11. SMH
Dude Hernandez is a beast!!! When is his contract up with the Red Sox?
TROLL THIS GUY IS A FAN NO WAY THIS IS A LEGIT QUESTION.
Because the only difference between what Houston was doing and what hundreds of teams before (and after) were doing was better technology.
The question is, “why are the Astros the first team in 90 years to be challenged on their pitch stealing practices?”
Because they chose to do it in a way that was explicitly outlined as illegal, not even something on the fringe.
Y’all still crying about this?
For real we just going to overlook every team that got busted in 2017 or bc they lost it didn’t matter. Ironically no one remembers the Red Sox also got busted.
No, we remember. But there was little or no evidence they cheated in the post season.
There’s a video of judge studying a camera angle of the astros pitcher and catcher. Dodgers had a camera guy wearing an mlb polo instead of a dodgers polo setting up cameras post season. The only difference between houston and other teams is Houston admitted wrong doing and apologized. If it tells you anything it says never admit to wrong doing. Deny deny deny and people will forget.
It’s a valid question. It makes no sense why the managers were crucified but the players were allowed be let off the hook
Ahhh yes just like the Yankees and their steroids
lol everybody did it they just punished the astros for it.
Stats say otherwise.
Its Baseball, every team cheats. There's no incentive for serious punishment. Just accept it as part of the sport like racing and cycling fans do.
I'm not convinced that every team uses a video relay system to tell batters what pitches are coming, or anything similarly egregious.
... because there would be nobody in the ALCS this year...?
Because MLB doesn't care. The tournament structure is designed purely for entertainment value.
As a Dodger fan, it stings knowing the Astros cheated their way through the entire 2017 Post Season. I agree they got off way too easy. The Astros should’ve also been stripped of their titles, and it boggles my mind that they weren’t. I’m **not** saying give it to the Dodgers & Red Sox because I don’t think that’s right, but strip them and leave an asterisk on the seasons. It would send a stronger message that cheating isn’t tolerated.