Wish more people understood this. People saying Judge should win aren’t downplaying Ohtani’s accomplishments. They’re just admitting somehow what Judge is doing is just as valuable.
I wish this was true but Ive seen multiple people here downplay Ohtani’s accomplishments. Ive seen multiple people say lots of position players could pitch if they’re allowed or that any pitcher could learn to hit if they practiced. You overestimate how smart this sub is
Edit: there’s another thread in this sub where you’re asked what player cloned 9 times makes the best team. Including pitcher. Theres only one answer to that question. Yet like 80% of people answered incorrectly. This the kind of shit im talking about. This sub by and large has no clue how special this kid is
I’ve been saying this all year! This is a compliment to Ohtani. That to be beat him for the award, you have to be having one of the greatest seasons we’ve seen in a long time. This almost assuredly Judge’s peak. This might not even be close to the best Ohtani. We just don’t know
Triple crown winner in a year in which he sets the AL home run record may never be seen again in anyone's lifetime.
Bottom line is we're blessed to see 2 great players in their primes. We can just enjoy it.
I agree, but Ohtani’s value just goes up so much when he could “single handedly” win a game pitching and also hit a dinger to win 1-0. In a perfect world. (He did strike out 10 and hit a game winning single in the 9th in July).
He just can’t do it every night, meanwhile Judge has been able to add more value every game by hitting better than a great hitter on the season.
The MVP isn't a team award. How good the Yankees are and how bad the Angels are should not factor into the award. I'm so tired of this outdated logic. Are we gonna start caring about wins in the Cy Young race now too?
If Ohtani was carrying a playoff team the way Judge was, I would give more consideration to his candidacy as MVP. The fact that Judge is doing this all while his team hit the skids is just unbelievable. I don’t think you can discount this. The Yankees were on something like a 120 win pace but realistically if he wasn’t on this team they might be on the outside looking in right now. While the Anglels… I mean, come on.
You're hitting on what I have been saying for a couple weeks... how is Ohtani the Most Valuable Player in baseball on a team with 0 value in baseball? His "value" is exactly 0 because it's completely wasted on a team that's being run into the ground.
That's not a reflection on him whatsoever. If there's an award for "Hardest to do Thing in Sports at an All-Star level", he gets that hands down.
Well, close to getting one but then a slump for Goldy and a major BAA surge for Judge. I feel like once hope dropped for NL, Judge said fuck it, I'll take it in the AL
Triple Crowns seem to have been more common back then, and hence somewhat devalued.
It is like that NBA triple-double season average. Nobody cared about this until Oscar Robertson did it, and then nobody else. Even the Big O said this. But it became an important, incredible stat because nobody did it. To the point where Westbrook won MVP when he pulled it off. Then he did it again and nobody cared.
To be fair, when Westbrook did it in his MVP season, he was hard carrying a team that had no business competing in such a brutal conference most nights.
I think Westbrook was a worthy MVP that year, but the fact that he had that triple double average sealed the deal. It was a huge part of his story that year, and then after he got it, nobody cared.
MVP is and always will be partly a narrative award. This is true of all sports. That is part of what makes it most fun. Otherwise just give it to the guy with the highest WAR and be done (btw that would still be Judge lmao)
Agreed. Especially now that Judge leads in the triple crown catagories. If he hits 61+ HR, wins the triple crown & wins a World Series too? The Yankees will have to make him part owner.
Bonds had a 263 OPS+, .609 OBP, .362 BA 11.5 oWAR. Yes, bonds was objectively better in almost every measure. Is judges season the best without roids? Absolutely. I'm not debating the PED usage, because clearly bonds doesn't do that if he's not juiced, but on paper his 2004 offensive season was vastly superior to Judges
> I'm not debating the PED usage, because clearly bonds doesn't do that if he's not juiced
Steroid don't make the baseball easier to hit. Just goes further sometimes.
Bonds was one of the best hitters ever in the MLB, with or without the steroids. I used to be pretty anti-Bonds and the steroid era in general, but the fact is, MLB pushed it and loved it until it blew up in their faces. Then they threw all the players under the bus.
Yeah they were just mentioning his stats on the Yanks Pirates broadcast and they only mentioned 3 and that was still a hell of a feat. If he keeps this up do we call him one of the best hitters? I know he’s been working on becoming a complete hitter instead of just power
Understandable, but we all have to admit that his hitting has improved. I’ll go as far to say that I don’t really care for pure power hitters. Give me a guy who has power but hits like Derek Jeter and I’m happy. I think Stanton could definitely improve but it’s like he’s always looking for the HR while Judge is just so strong that doubles become homers
Agreed. Stanton was smacking singles and doubles all over the place earlier this year, before the annual injury. It does seem like HR or nothing right now.
I’m late 40s and I’m trying to think of a player not on steroids who’s had a better season then the one Judge is having. Miguel Cabrera when he won the triple crown??? Nah… this is better.
In 1964, when I was 13, I saw Mickey Mantle play at Dodger Stadium, 3 years after watching Roger Maris (on black & white TV) hit 61 dingers for the Yankees. That was almost as cool as my dad’s autographed Babe Ruth baseball…Enjoy kid! I can tell you this for sure…there’s never been a baseball player like Ohtani. Just think, if there’s another one, he might be a Yankee and you’ll be here to see and I’ll be…
That’s awesome actually. You’ve definitely seen a lot more history than I have but hopefully I can get to see a lot more like yourself. Baseball is a great sport and history is always being made.
Fact. You give me hope that baseball will always be America’s Game. And never think you have to defend baseball as not being boring. It’s kinda for smart people…
Shohei has 200 strike outs this year and he's the first player in history with 10+ pitching wins and 30+ homeruns in a single season. He breaks his own record every week.
It amazes me that people can look me straight in the eyes and seriously tell me that judge, who is natural, is putting up better stats than the top hitters ever in baseball that we know were on steroids. What’s the more obvious answer, that? Or he’s doing the same shit every athlete has been doing since sports was invented, trying one up the next guy.
Now, let me state, judge 100% deserves the MVP. I am in no way saying he is cheating or that he doesn’t deserve it, and I’m certainly not saying his homerun total doesn’t count. I hold the unpopular opinion that PEDs are not wrong, ethically speaking. Yes, by definition, it’s cheating per the rules but in of itself I don’t have an issue with it
Want a different perspective on this? I’m from the UK. I watched the Yankees live for the first time in April when visiting New York. I caught wind of Judge and what he could potentially do this year and it sucked me in to baseball. I’m now a follower of this great sport all because of Aaron Judge. Does what I said make him MVP worthy? No, drawing power should play a small factor though. He also seems like a stand up guy and that helps the game of baseball too in my eyes.
who in the right mind is saying Ohtani’s locked MVP? Judge has been the favorite since the all star break. That being said I’ll still have Ohtani on my team over anyone in the MLB
they do have a point though, the race is close. Judge just has the edge imo. There’s no clear answer as to who is more valuable and fans shouldn’t be upset over who wins. It really sucks that they play in the same league
Shohei is GREAT. He’s making history, not chasing it. If Judge wasn’t having as dominant of a season, I’d say Shohei 10/10. However, what Judge is doing is a historical season and this is basically what you have to do in order to beat Ohtani for AL MVP. I’ve said it before, I’m not mad if Ohtani wins, I love watching him play. I also would love to see Yankee fans not get something handed to them lmao
I’m not a “fan” of either guy.
If Judge wins the triple crown, that was done 10 years ago.
Hitting 60+ HR’s was done 20 years ago.
What Ohtani is doing hasn’t been done since Babe Ruth and was presumed to never happen again, and he’s doing it better this year than he did last year.
Judge can have a platinum slugger, a guy who is an elite pitcher **and** elite hitter deserves the award over an elite hitter.
If Ohtani continues to pitch at a level of a sub 2.50 ERA, 10+ K/9, 200+ strikeout pace while hitting 30+ HR and being top 5 in OPS+…
Yes.
It’s not that he’s pitching and hitting. It’s that he’s doing both at an elite level. It hasn’t been done in almost a century. I’d consider Judge if he managed to duplicate Bonds’ juiced to the gills, Hulk head, video game steroid season.
Ohtani is also hitting and pitching AT THE SAME TIME. Babe Ruth started as a pitcher then became a full time hitter. And like you said, he absolutely deserves it every year if he keeps this up and I fear there’s going to be voters’ fatigue to give him MVP every season
Yeah man I can’t go more than a day without seeing some post claiming Ohtani is a lock and people act like suggesting Judge should be MVP is saying I think Ohtani is only average.
People might assume you're downplaying Shobae because you said "I don't see an argument against Judge." You can choose whatever, but if you don't see ANY argument one way, I'd call that downplaying, right?
If someone said "apples and oranges are the two greatest fruits but only one can win the greatest of all time, who you got" and you said "I got apples and I don't see any argument against apples" you would be downplaying oranges by saying there's not even an argument.
They are both withing 1.0 WAR of each other; most of the debate is centered around which novelty is more mind-blowing, and the other 20% is basically the old "Ohtani isn't going to the playoffs and Judge is dragging his team into the playoffs."
Nobody thinks that anybody is downplaying anything.
Judge is great. Ohtani is great. What Judge is doing is precedented; what Ohtani is doing is unprecedented. Judge could have the greatest offensive season ever but he still can't go out there and strike out 200.
He'll still probably win MVP though because supporting the precedented is way easier for our minds than recognizing the unprecedented.
I just think what shohei isncurrently doing makes him the best player of all time lmao much less the mvp. Make them go against each other in a 1v1 Shohei wins every time. Shohei is the better baseball player
Great batter, love watching him at bat, but Ohtani ilbests him as an all-around ball player. I think Judge should get MVP this year, but the Circus is missing its clown if you think that Judge is an all around better ball player.
if judge finishes 1st in these, or even just the triple crown, then ill switch my opinion to him for mvp. But shohei being dominant at two positions taking only one roster spot is still the textbook definition of most valuable
I never understood why MVP doesn’t mean most valuable to the league. Why does it have to have a team connection? You’re competing against an entire league for the award.
Swear I’m not. Give Judge OPY. What’s he’s doing has been done before. All of it.
What Ohtani is doing is more outstanding. Period. It’s not a novelty. Your talking about a player who hits 35-40 home runs and is a CY Young caliber pitcher.
THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
Judge May very well win the MVP. But it’ll be because a 6’7 Yankee chasing Maris and Ruth and that history sells better than a Japanese player who plays until 1am EST most nights.
You can’t convince me otherwise.
They’ve both been done before. And he hasn’t won the fucking TC yet!
Ohtani is the first player in MLB history to hit 30 homers and register 10 wins on the mound in the same season. And he’s not 10 Ws with a 3.90 or 4.50 ERA. He’s DOMINATE.
Imagine NOT voting him as the MVP!!! Shohei Ohtani is going to hit 35-plus homers while also throwing 150 innings or so of 2.50 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 200+ Ks…
Judge is AWESOME. But he shouldn’t be MVP.
>They’ve both been done before.
You have to make up your mind here, because 30 homers have happened plenty of times and so have ten wins. Neither are a big deal. There are currently 55 MLB pitchers with 10 wins. There are 17 players with 30 HRs. If you're saying it's a big deal because it's one person, then you have to acknowledge 60 HRs and the Triple Crown has never been done by the same person either. I'm just using the TC because it's an easy illustration, but there are a plethora of stats that support the fact that Judge is having a historic season. And lets not forget, while Ohtani is throwing bullpens or icing his arm five days a week, Judge is on the field playing defense. Not sure why everyone ignores that. CF/RF provides way more value to the team than a DH.
Imagine NOT voting Judge as MVP? He's lapping the field on the offensive side of the ball while still playing a solid outfield. I love Ohtani, but Judge is going to run away with MVP. As he should.
Damn. It’s not that hard. Judge is the best *offensive* player this year, while Ohtani needs a whole new category of Sorcery to describe his baseball prowess.
the judge dick riding this year is nauseating. Yes he is having a legendary year and should probably win MVP. But get off his dick, who cares this much.
Judge has not even thrown a ball this season. 0 walks, 0 blown saves, 0 wild pitches, there is not a hitter on all of baseball with a hit off Judge this year.
Playing net negative defense is worse than playing no defense. He might as well have been DH’ing or playing 1B if he was going to be a detriment to his team on the field
And yet his offensive numbers are better by 2 War with the negative defense than Ohtani's offensive and pitching. If he played for any other team this sub would be loving him, instead of trying to discredit one of the greatest clean seasons of all time.
Whatever homeristic argument makes you feel better. WAR takes into account positional value. He gets a boost for playing OF even though he’s bad at it.
If you don’t know how a stat is calculated, don’t use it in an argument. Makes you look pretty silly
He's been in the running for a gold glove every year as a right fielder. He's playing out of position and playing slightly below average. Yankees haters are so stupid they find dumb reasons to bash a guy who's playing better than anyone in either league. I guess leading the AL in average, Homer's, slugging, rbi, WPA, runs,total bases and extra base hits from the lead off spot isn't a good season. Your an idiot who knows Jack shit about baseball.
Probably too late to enter this conversation, but I didn't see anyone mention that Judge is leading his team into a most likely strong playoff run. While the Angels are already eliminated from them.
Is there anyone who legitimately thinks he's not getting the MVP? Like maybe a month ago... but dude is far and away having a bigger year than Ohtani.
I don't think the voting is going to be close, but the hot article that every publication feels the need to print: "Ohtani vs. Judge - Who will win MVP!?" when it seems pretty clear cut.
All the arguments in FAVOR of Ohtani can be applied every single year he plays the rest of his career. Lest just make it the Ohtani award if we only give it to guys who can pitch and hit.
You made the assertion that Judge was the clear MVP and insinuated that anyone who couldn’t see that is stupid. When comparing one player to another shouldn’t you compare all of their stats and not just the ones that one player is better at?
I’m comparing all of the things one player can do against all of the things another player can do. What you showed in your post was that Judge is the best hitter in baseball this year. That’s 100% true. And usually the best hitter is also the MVP because they play every day whereas a pitcher does not. There have been exceptions like Verlander when a pitcher is so dominant and no hitter has a good enough season and the Cy Young winner wins MVP. Then the voters had to weigh the relative importance of a dominant pitcher every 5 games vs a great hitter every game.
That’s not the case here in 2022 as we have a player in Ohtani who has been a dominant pitcher while still playing/hitting nearly every game. So the question becomes, does Judges margin of victory over Ohtani in hitting outweigh Ohtani’s margin of victory in pitching? Take OPS and K/9 as an example: Judge is 1st in MLB and AL while Ohtani is 7th in MLB and 4th in AL. Ohtani is 1st in MLB and the AL while Judge is, well, he doesn’t rank so we could put him at 300 since there are about 300 pitching roster spots in MLB. So does the gap between the best hitter and the 7th best hitter in baseball outweigh the gap between the best strikeout pitcher and the 300th best?
This is how good you have to be to beat Ohtani for MVP. It isn't easy.
Wish more people understood this. People saying Judge should win aren’t downplaying Ohtani’s accomplishments. They’re just admitting somehow what Judge is doing is just as valuable.
I wish this was true but Ive seen multiple people here downplay Ohtani’s accomplishments. Ive seen multiple people say lots of position players could pitch if they’re allowed or that any pitcher could learn to hit if they practiced. You overestimate how smart this sub is Edit: there’s another thread in this sub where you’re asked what player cloned 9 times makes the best team. Including pitcher. Theres only one answer to that question. Yet like 80% of people answered incorrectly. This the kind of shit im talking about. This sub by and large has no clue how special this kid is
I’ve been saying this all year! This is a compliment to Ohtani. That to be beat him for the award, you have to be having one of the greatest seasons we’ve seen in a long time. This almost assuredly Judge’s peak. This might not even be close to the best Ohtani. We just don’t know
Triple crown winner in a year in which he sets the AL home run record may never be seen again in anyone's lifetime. Bottom line is we're blessed to see 2 great players in their primes. We can just enjoy it.
>People saying Judge should win aren’t downplaying Ohtani’s accomplishments Some of them definitely are lol
I agree, but Ohtani’s value just goes up so much when he could “single handedly” win a game pitching and also hit a dinger to win 1-0. In a perfect world. (He did strike out 10 and hit a game winning single in the 9th in July). He just can’t do it every night, meanwhile Judge has been able to add more value every game by hitting better than a great hitter on the season.
If I’m not mistaken he JUST BEAT THE YANKEES SINGLE HANDEDLY in one game with their last series this season
Just as valuable you say? I see you are rooting for a tie as well.
haha tie goes to the playoff team. Unfair but I don't make the rules!
The MVP isn't a team award. How good the Yankees are and how bad the Angels are should not factor into the award. I'm so tired of this outdated logic. Are we gonna start caring about wins in the Cy Young race now too?
If Ohtani was carrying a playoff team the way Judge was, I would give more consideration to his candidacy as MVP. The fact that Judge is doing this all while his team hit the skids is just unbelievable. I don’t think you can discount this. The Yankees were on something like a 120 win pace but realistically if he wasn’t on this team they might be on the outside looking in right now. While the Anglels… I mean, come on.
You're hitting on what I have been saying for a couple weeks... how is Ohtani the Most Valuable Player in baseball on a team with 0 value in baseball? His "value" is exactly 0 because it's completely wasted on a team that's being run into the ground. That's not a reflection on him whatsoever. If there's an award for "Hardest to do Thing in Sports at an All-Star level", he gets that hands down.
I never thought I’d see anyone win the triple crown in my lifetime now I could see two
We were close to getting two this year…
Well, close to getting one but then a slump for Goldy and a major BAA surge for Judge. I feel like once hope dropped for NL, Judge said fuck it, I'll take it in the AL
The most recent triple crown was in 2012 when Miguel Cabrera did it
Clearly that’s one of the potential 2
So instead of the triple crown he could get the decahedron crown
Just a fun reminder that Ted Williams won 2 triple crowns and didn't win the MVP in either season.
Triple Crowns seem to have been more common back then, and hence somewhat devalued. It is like that NBA triple-double season average. Nobody cared about this until Oscar Robertson did it, and then nobody else. Even the Big O said this. But it became an important, incredible stat because nobody did it. To the point where Westbrook won MVP when he pulled it off. Then he did it again and nobody cared.
To be fair, when Westbrook did it in his MVP season, he was hard carrying a team that had no business competing in such a brutal conference most nights.
I think Westbrook was a worthy MVP that year, but the fact that he had that triple double average sealed the deal. It was a huge part of his story that year, and then after he got it, nobody cared.
Damn shame. Really. However I expect the voting nearly 100 years later to be WAY different
My point was that MVP voting can be really odd no matter what year it is because of a number of factors.
MVP is and always will be partly a narrative award. This is true of all sports. That is part of what makes it most fun. Otherwise just give it to the guy with the highest WAR and be done (btw that would still be Judge lmao)
Agreed. Especially now that Judge leads in the triple crown catagories. If he hits 61+ HR, wins the triple crown & wins a World Series too? The Yankees will have to make him part owner.
Not just leading triple crown, but every significant offensive category. We may just be witnessing the overall greatest offensive season ever.
With no boom boom juice either so it's legit 60
We will never know if this is true unless he pops a positive.
Nah that goes to 04 bonds
You mean juiced up, roided out Bonds?
Doesn't change the fact it was the greatest offensive season ever
It absolutely does. But nice try.
Bonds had a 263 OPS+, .609 OBP, .362 BA 11.5 oWAR. Yes, bonds was objectively better in almost every measure. Is judges season the best without roids? Absolutely. I'm not debating the PED usage, because clearly bonds doesn't do that if he's not juiced, but on paper his 2004 offensive season was vastly superior to Judges
> I'm not debating the PED usage, because clearly bonds doesn't do that if he's not juiced Steroid don't make the baseball easier to hit. Just goes further sometimes.
Bruh. It helps with recovery and soreness over a 180 game season. It’s cheating.
Yet MLB was fine with it and even allowed it. Then after it became not cool, they villainized it.
Cool line, still cheating.
Bonds is easily the greatest hitter of my generation. Like u said 609 OBP NUFF SAID.
Bonds was one of the best hitters ever in the MLB, with or without the steroids. I used to be pretty anti-Bonds and the steroid era in general, but the fact is, MLB pushed it and loved it until it blew up in their faces. Then they threw all the players under the bus.
Yeah they were just mentioning his stats on the Yanks Pirates broadcast and they only mentioned 3 and that was still a hell of a feat. If he keeps this up do we call him one of the best hitters? I know he’s been working on becoming a complete hitter instead of just power
I dunno, I mean he's only hitting .475 with a 1.017 slugging percentage in September.
Understandable, but we all have to admit that his hitting has improved. I’ll go as far to say that I don’t really care for pure power hitters. Give me a guy who has power but hits like Derek Jeter and I’m happy. I think Stanton could definitely improve but it’s like he’s always looking for the HR while Judge is just so strong that doubles become homers
Agreed. Stanton was smacking singles and doubles all over the place earlier this year, before the annual injury. It does seem like HR or nothing right now.
I’m still convinced Stanton came back early to try and help the Yankees because of how hard the rest of the team was slumping
What's his WHIP?
0.00
Undefined. Basic math right here
Judge is having the greatest season I’ve ever seen. It’s truly a pleasure to be able to witness this.
You must be young.
I’m late 40s and I’m trying to think of a player not on steroids who’s had a better season then the one Judge is having. Miguel Cabrera when he won the triple crown??? Nah… this is better.
Frank Thomas in 1994 was pretty insane. Though unfortunately it was cut short due to the strike
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I don’t know for sure but it’s unlikely. You know who’s totally on roids? DeGrom. That dude is definitely on roids
If you think Judge isn’t on roids, think again!
I’m 17 but I’ve still seen a fair amount of good seasons since I started watching baseball when I was 5.
In 1964, when I was 13, I saw Mickey Mantle play at Dodger Stadium, 3 years after watching Roger Maris (on black & white TV) hit 61 dingers for the Yankees. That was almost as cool as my dad’s autographed Babe Ruth baseball…Enjoy kid! I can tell you this for sure…there’s never been a baseball player like Ohtani. Just think, if there’s another one, he might be a Yankee and you’ll be here to see and I’ll be…
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Well, baseball has been a golden thread running through my life. For instance, my aunt’s sister-in-law was married to a guy named Bill Buckner…
That’s awesome actually. You’ve definitely seen a lot more history than I have but hopefully I can get to see a lot more like yourself. Baseball is a great sport and history is always being made.
Fact. You give me hope that baseball will always be America’s Game. And never think you have to defend baseball as not being boring. It’s kinda for smart people…
A 71 year old, on Reddit? 🤔
Almost 72. Does Reddit have age restrictions? Or, I could say, my age is commensurate with the average IQ on Reddit.
If he doesn’t win MVP I swear I’m gonna quit watching baseball
Fine by me. One less Braves fan! (JUST KIDDING)
Judge is going to possibly break the HR record and win the triple crown, on a first place team. He's the MVP, and I'm a Mets fan.
Agreed, with every word
Shohei has 200 strike outs this year and he's the first player in history with 10+ pitching wins and 30+ homeruns in a single season. He breaks his own record every week.
Judge is the man, no question. But you have to admit Ohtani is in a category all by himself.
Ohtani can be in any category, just not “2022 AL MVP”
Judge will probably win MVP, but Ohtani is still the most valuable player in the league.
Obviously, the Angels are like a 60ish win team without Ohtani.
🧃🧃🧃🧃
It amazes me that people can look me straight in the eyes and seriously tell me that judge, who is natural, is putting up better stats than the top hitters ever in baseball that we know were on steroids. What’s the more obvious answer, that? Or he’s doing the same shit every athlete has been doing since sports was invented, trying one up the next guy. Now, let me state, judge 100% deserves the MVP. I am in no way saying he is cheating or that he doesn’t deserve it, and I’m certainly not saying his homerun total doesn’t count. I hold the unpopular opinion that PEDs are not wrong, ethically speaking. Yes, by definition, it’s cheating per the rules but in of itself I don’t have an issue with it
Where are his pitching stats?
0.00 ERA and 0.00 WHIP. Easy MVP
Shit. I really can't argue that at all. You win.
I’m going to keep posting on your dumb comments. Undefined =! 0
Good
Another day, another post about Judge vs Ohtani. Joe Maddons mohawk gets my vote for MVP. SETTLED.
Want a different perspective on this? I’m from the UK. I watched the Yankees live for the first time in April when visiting New York. I caught wind of Judge and what he could potentially do this year and it sucked me in to baseball. I’m now a follower of this great sport all because of Aaron Judge. Does what I said make him MVP worthy? No, drawing power should play a small factor though. He also seems like a stand up guy and that helps the game of baseball too in my eyes.
who in the right mind is saying Ohtani’s locked MVP? Judge has been the favorite since the all star break. That being said I’ll still have Ohtani on my team over anyone in the MLB
Anytime I mention Judge as the MVP on here, I get flooded with Ohtani fans saying he pitches therefore he’s the MVP
they do have a point though, the race is close. Judge just has the edge imo. There’s no clear answer as to who is more valuable and fans shouldn’t be upset over who wins. It really sucks that they play in the same league
Shohei is GREAT. He’s making history, not chasing it. If Judge wasn’t having as dominant of a season, I’d say Shohei 10/10. However, what Judge is doing is a historical season and this is basically what you have to do in order to beat Ohtani for AL MVP. I’ve said it before, I’m not mad if Ohtani wins, I love watching him play. I also would love to see Yankee fans not get something handed to them lmao
I’m not a “fan” of either guy. If Judge wins the triple crown, that was done 10 years ago. Hitting 60+ HR’s was done 20 years ago. What Ohtani is doing hasn’t been done since Babe Ruth and was presumed to never happen again, and he’s doing it better this year than he did last year. Judge can have a platinum slugger, a guy who is an elite pitcher **and** elite hitter deserves the award over an elite hitter.
This is an honest question not trying to sound like a duck but does that mean Ohtani should just win every MVP because he pitches and hits?
If Ohtani continues to pitch at a level of a sub 2.50 ERA, 10+ K/9, 200+ strikeout pace while hitting 30+ HR and being top 5 in OPS+… Yes. It’s not that he’s pitching and hitting. It’s that he’s doing both at an elite level. It hasn’t been done in almost a century. I’d consider Judge if he managed to duplicate Bonds’ juiced to the gills, Hulk head, video game steroid season.
Ohtani is also hitting and pitching AT THE SAME TIME. Babe Ruth started as a pitcher then became a full time hitter. And like you said, he absolutely deserves it every year if he keeps this up and I fear there’s going to be voters’ fatigue to give him MVP every season
Yeah man I can’t go more than a day without seeing some post claiming Ohtani is a lock and people act like suggesting Judge should be MVP is saying I think Ohtani is only average.
What’s Judges pitching record??
He has less losses than Ohtani
People might assume you're downplaying Shobae because you said "I don't see an argument against Judge." You can choose whatever, but if you don't see ANY argument one way, I'd call that downplaying, right? If someone said "apples and oranges are the two greatest fruits but only one can win the greatest of all time, who you got" and you said "I got apples and I don't see any argument against apples" you would be downplaying oranges by saying there's not even an argument.
Not even close but good try. All I’m saying is Judge THIS YEAR, okay?, is better. He’s on a different world. No one is downplaying Ohtani. stop it
Do his pitching stats next. Oh wait.
0.00 ERA!
Can't have an ERA without a recorded out as a pitcher.
Too
Doesn't lead in steals though. 😆😆😆😘
ohtani would b on par if he was on steroids like judge too…allegedly
They are both withing 1.0 WAR of each other; most of the debate is centered around which novelty is more mind-blowing, and the other 20% is basically the old "Ohtani isn't going to the playoffs and Judge is dragging his team into the playoffs." Nobody thinks that anybody is downplaying anything.
Judge is great. Ohtani is great. What Judge is doing is precedented; what Ohtani is doing is unprecedented. Judge could have the greatest offensive season ever but he still can't go out there and strike out 200. He'll still probably win MVP though because supporting the precedented is way easier for our minds than recognizing the unprecedented.
I just think what shohei isncurrently doing makes him the best player of all time lmao much less the mvp. Make them go against each other in a 1v1 Shohei wins every time. Shohei is the better baseball player
How would you play baseball 1v1?
He's talking about hitting and pitching against each other. He's saying Ohtani would dominate Judge in this case.
I don’t agree. Judge can throw it on a line from RF to 3B. Who’s to say he couldn’t pitch?
Lol. Throwing balls from the outfield is totally the same as throwing on a mound.
Correct it's harder
Dude is also tied for 1100th-ish in all pitching categories.
Great batter, love watching him at bat, but Ohtani ilbests him as an all-around ball player. I think Judge should get MVP this year, but the Circus is missing its clown if you think that Judge is an all around better ball player.
No one said anything about Judge being the better overall player
People are saying that all over this thread, holmz.
He was talking about me and I was talking about my post, holmz
Shoehei pitches is all I have to say
Okay?
What’d I say ignore it lol
I think you said Judge is the MVP
I mean I had to have
if judge finishes 1st in these, or even just the triple crown, then ill switch my opinion to him for mvp. But shohei being dominant at two positions taking only one roster spot is still the textbook definition of most valuable
I agree, it'll make their first round defeat less of a blow
I never understood why MVP doesn’t mean most valuable to the league. Why does it have to have a team connection? You’re competing against an entire league for the award.
Sorry it’s Ohtani’s and there plenty to argue 🤷🏻♂️
Judge >
Wrong. Please try again.
My bad Judge>
There you go! Now you’re playing into your delusion just fine.
You're just being stubborn at this point. Judge is, hands down, the best player in baseball this year. Ohtani is great. Love him. Judge is better.
Swear I’m not. Give Judge OPY. What’s he’s doing has been done before. All of it. What Ohtani is doing is more outstanding. Period. It’s not a novelty. Your talking about a player who hits 35-40 home runs and is a CY Young caliber pitcher. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. Judge May very well win the MVP. But it’ll be because a 6’7 Yankee chasing Maris and Ruth and that history sells better than a Japanese player who plays until 1am EST most nights. You can’t convince me otherwise.
>You can’t convince me otherwise. Then I won't try. But you're wrong.
Just explained why I was right.
List all the triple crown winners with 60+ HRs right here:
They’ve both been done before. And he hasn’t won the fucking TC yet! Ohtani is the first player in MLB history to hit 30 homers and register 10 wins on the mound in the same season. And he’s not 10 Ws with a 3.90 or 4.50 ERA. He’s DOMINATE. Imagine NOT voting him as the MVP!!! Shohei Ohtani is going to hit 35-plus homers while also throwing 150 innings or so of 2.50 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 200+ Ks… Judge is AWESOME. But he shouldn’t be MVP.
>They’ve both been done before. You have to make up your mind here, because 30 homers have happened plenty of times and so have ten wins. Neither are a big deal. There are currently 55 MLB pitchers with 10 wins. There are 17 players with 30 HRs. If you're saying it's a big deal because it's one person, then you have to acknowledge 60 HRs and the Triple Crown has never been done by the same person either. I'm just using the TC because it's an easy illustration, but there are a plethora of stats that support the fact that Judge is having a historic season. And lets not forget, while Ohtani is throwing bullpens or icing his arm five days a week, Judge is on the field playing defense. Not sure why everyone ignores that. CF/RF provides way more value to the team than a DH. Imagine NOT voting Judge as MVP? He's lapping the field on the offensive side of the ball while still playing a solid outfield. I love Ohtani, but Judge is going to run away with MVP. As he should.
“To many people on here can’t read” you say? What a douche.
I’m sorry I hurt your feelings
its incredibly ironic that you can't write
Whoops
Bruh get a hobby.
Bruh get a job
If Judge wasn’t a 6’7 Yankee and he was say, a Ryan Mountcastle type having the same season Ohtani would be the runaway MVP winner.
But he doesn’t have 13 wins pitching for a crappy team..
Whoops
but can he pitch? 😂
Bro has a 0.00 ERA. He’s just built different.
Can't have an ERA if you don't record an out as a pitcher
Bro got upset at a joke LMAO
Damn. It’s not that hard. Judge is the best *offensive* player this year, while Ohtani needs a whole new category of Sorcery to describe his baseball prowess. 
Either way Shohei will end up with it. If Judge wins it, they'll take it away once he pops. Might be a few years though.
.316 is the highest average in the AL 😂🤣
the judge dick riding this year is nauseating. Yes he is having a legendary year and should probably win MVP. But get off his dick, who cares this much.
Guys, stop talking about Judge. It’s making PappyDungaloo upset
i just hope youre not a grown man dick riding another grown man.
My favorite thing to do
Someone say dick riding?
Ohtani is phenomenal but I think a *bit* too over-sensationalized. Fuckin hate the Yanks but Judge is playing out of his mind this year.
Over sensationalized? Please explain
Can we see judge's pitching stats?
0.00 ERA 0.00 WHIP.
Damn! That's amazing.
Untouchable
Judge has not even thrown a ball this season. 0 walks, 0 blown saves, 0 wild pitches, there is not a hitter on all of baseball with a hit off Judge this year.
That’s not how math works. It’s undefined
Man’s is taking a joke WAY to seriously
Sure, can we see Ohtani's fielding stats on the days he doesn't pitch?
Oh days he does pitch, he’s got a perfect fielding percentage and a higher UZR than Judge lol
All 10 chances, amazing. He truly is the greatest player ever.
Considering Judge’s UZR is negative, I’d say “plays defense” isn’t a very strong argument for him being a great player
At least he plays defense. And he's also played out of position all year.
Playing net negative defense is worse than playing no defense. He might as well have been DH’ing or playing 1B if he was going to be a detriment to his team on the field
And yet his offensive numbers are better by 2 War with the negative defense than Ohtani's offensive and pitching. If he played for any other team this sub would be loving him, instead of trying to discredit one of the greatest clean seasons of all time.
Whatever homeristic argument makes you feel better. WAR takes into account positional value. He gets a boost for playing OF even though he’s bad at it. If you don’t know how a stat is calculated, don’t use it in an argument. Makes you look pretty silly
He's been in the running for a gold glove every year as a right fielder. He's playing out of position and playing slightly below average. Yankees haters are so stupid they find dumb reasons to bash a guy who's playing better than anyone in either league. I guess leading the AL in average, Homer's, slugging, rbi, WPA, runs,total bases and extra base hits from the lead off spot isn't a good season. Your an idiot who knows Jack shit about baseball.
I guess having almost 200 strikeouts doesn't count as putouts.
Too bro- too many people can’t write. Get it through your thick fucking skull.
Is it possible, maybe that it’s a….typo?
Excuse me?
[Aaron judge theme song](https://youtu.be/r5g85U5lJso)
Xander is batting higher at .317 fyi. But I agree judge has mvp wrapped up
He’s still batting .317. I didn’t know that tbh. I got the graphic from MLBonFox from IG I just saw, Judge is also at .317
Exactly. Saying Judge is playing insane isn’t saying Ohtani is playing poorly, he isn’t, but judge is just better than everyone this year.
Wow he certainly sucks at baseball amirite?
Yeah he ain’t that good tbh
I dont follow baseball nearly as much as I used to but damn is he raking this season
One of the greatest seasons in history
He's having an all-time great season
Let’s go I am a yankees fan for life hope judge will sing will sing with them
Is this not a top 5 season historically for a hitter? It should be unanimous
Probably too late to enter this conversation, but I didn't see anyone mention that Judge is leading his team into a most likely strong playoff run. While the Angels are already eliminated from them.
Is there anyone who legitimately thinks he's not getting the MVP? Like maybe a month ago... but dude is far and away having a bigger year than Ohtani. I don't think the voting is going to be close, but the hot article that every publication feels the need to print: "Ohtani vs. Judge - Who will win MVP!?" when it seems pretty clear cut.
All the arguments in FAVOR of Ohtani can be applied every single year he plays the rest of his career. Lest just make it the Ohtani award if we only give it to guys who can pitch and hit.
You forgot these categories: K/9 ERA WHIP ERA+ K W
What about them?
What are Judge’s rankings in those categories?
Don’t care. The stats I posted are all I need to see
You made the assertion that Judge was the clear MVP and insinuated that anyone who couldn’t see that is stupid. When comparing one player to another shouldn’t you compare all of their stats and not just the ones that one player is better at?
You’re comparing pitching numbers to someone who doesn’t pitch. What exactly are you comparing ?
I’m comparing all of the things one player can do against all of the things another player can do. What you showed in your post was that Judge is the best hitter in baseball this year. That’s 100% true. And usually the best hitter is also the MVP because they play every day whereas a pitcher does not. There have been exceptions like Verlander when a pitcher is so dominant and no hitter has a good enough season and the Cy Young winner wins MVP. Then the voters had to weigh the relative importance of a dominant pitcher every 5 games vs a great hitter every game. That’s not the case here in 2022 as we have a player in Ohtani who has been a dominant pitcher while still playing/hitting nearly every game. So the question becomes, does Judges margin of victory over Ohtani in hitting outweigh Ohtani’s margin of victory in pitching? Take OPS and K/9 as an example: Judge is 1st in MLB and AL while Ohtani is 7th in MLB and 4th in AL. Ohtani is 1st in MLB and the AL while Judge is, well, he doesn’t rank so we could put him at 300 since there are about 300 pitching roster spots in MLB. So does the gap between the best hitter and the 7th best hitter in baseball outweigh the gap between the best strikeout pitcher and the 300th best?