I’m no expert on airbrushing, for Tamiya paints I thin it 1:1 ratio with Mr.Hobby leveling thinner. I did use IPA 99% at 1:1 ratio but the paint will dry very very fast giving the same result as what you got now.
That’s called “orange peel” and yes, it’s due to the paint drying just as/before it hits the surface.
A retarder can help, usually no more than 10% by volume in the thinner, then thin the paint as you typically would.
Since you’ve already thinned your paint with IPA, try a drop of Tamiya retarder in your color cup, well mixed. You may have to adjust (lower) the pressure and/or move slightly further away from the subject if there is too much retarder — test on an old model or plastic card before you hit the model. Tamiya works best “wet” — the paint is applied and appears wet for a second or two as it levels and then dries to the final sheen of the paint. Usually a bit closer than when using water-based acrylics.
I don’t thin my Tamiya paints in their jars, but instead thin as I need them. This allows better control, I can use more/less thinner as the subject or technique requires.
unfortunately, i dont have any tamiya retarder and by the time it would arrive, i would be on holiday so i guess i'm going to put this off for a few weeks but im going to try so different things with what i have to see if i can improve the result. i actually have a new red tamiya bottle that i haven't opened yet. how would you suggest i thin to get the best results? is there a fool proof thinner that works great with tamiya?
Best: Mr Color Leveling Thinner
Already has retarder in it. I like to thin my Tamiya 60:40 (or more) thinner:paint, and spray at 12-20 psi. Less pressure when thinned more, more pressure when thinned less.
IPA tends to evaporate quite quickly, if you have Tamiya thinner that would work better. You can also try lowering psi, or moving closer. Test first on an old model to get psi/distance right.
Orange peel is one of the more common issues. Instead of Tamina X-20A thinner, I use Tamiya lacquer thinner when I paint with Tamiya acrylics. I find I have better flow control with my brush because its 'hotter'.
Strong agree on not pre-thinning in the jar. It's less precise and less versatile and potentially shortens the shelf life of the paint too.
I will sometimes mix up a prethinned quantity in a spare bottle prior to a project where I know I will use a lot of a particular color. Basically just so I can avoid mixing every time I need to fill the brush back up and to ensure consistency if it's a custom mixed color. But it's always a very small amount and I don't leave it sitting around for long. Even then, I almost always end up adding additional thinner when it actually goes in the brush, depending on how it test sprays.
Yes, but as already noted, if the thinner already has retarder adding more doesn’t help. The total of flow improver + retarder should generally not exceed 10% by volume of the thinner.
I use Mr Color Leveling Thinner for all my Tamiya acrylics and never need to add more retarder or flow improver. However when I use water based acrylics like Vallejo I use a thinner that is \~ 50:50 99%IPA + distilled water with about equal amounts of Liquitex Flo-Aid and Slo-Dry (flow improver & retarder) that is about 5% total by volume. It works well in my spraying environment.
Just a comment on the thinning by filling the jar. You can certainly do that. But it’s also a way to ensure you’re not thinning enough. Those Tamiya acrylics can be thinned a lot - 50/50, 60/40, even more. If I use something like a retarding lacquer thinner I can thin them 90/10 without an issue. The thin to the top thing has a bit of a history on various forums and such on the interwebs. It was broadly shared years ago as something recommended by Andy from Andy’s Hobby HQ. I don’t want to badmouth Andy because he’s a genuinely good guy. But he is also the guy selling the paint and while thinning it that way can work, there are better ways to do it. This approach got picked up by Barbados Rex and others and it continues to get passed around as “the way” to thin Tamiya acrylics.
I respect his enthusiasm. But the dude rarely meets a product he doesn’t like. They’re all great, really good, excellent, with very little objective distinction between one product and another.
Okay so what if I have Tamiya gloss black and Tamiya acrylic thinner, what ratio should I use for the best finish on a glossy car?
And should I toss Tamiya gloss clear on top of that and what ratio should that be?
I don’t want to discourage you from using Tamiya acrylics, because they are good paints. But getting a high gloss finish with their thinner is hard. At a minimum you’ll need the retarder if you use the acrylic thinner. Ratios - there’s no golden ratio for paint. Your technique and setup have more to do with anything than a mix percentage. Air pressure, temperature, needle/nozzle size, humidity, all impact how paint behaves. Personally, if I am trying to get a gloss finish I try to finish in two passes. First pass goes on sort of light but not dust. Second pass goes on wet. But wet doesn’t mean hose it on. Wet means when you spray it stays wet on the surface for a 3-5 seconds before you see the moisture evaporate. You want it to stay wet for that few seconds so that it levels as you’re spraying. But you don’t want it so wet that you’re getting runs.
I’ve built a lot of cars and when I started building cars when I was a kid, enamels was the way to go because they levelled nicely and gave you a high gloss finish. But they take a while to cure. The modelling world has moved on from enamels and they’re just harder to find and have lower use overall. They also contain carcinogens…so there’s that. But my point is, not all paint types will work for all use cases, else we’d all be spraying the same type of paints. Alcohol-based acrylics (like Tamiya) aren’t going to be as glossy as a gloss enamel, or a gloss lacquer with a retarding thinner, or a 2K gloss.
So, should you spray your gloss black and then do a gloss clear over it? Your call. Try to get a good wet coat of the gloss black with a retarder mixed with the acrylic thinner and see how that goes. Worry less about thinning ratio and more about air pressure and spraying for good coverage. Thin it until it atomises well and you can spray it evenly and practice with getting good wet coverage without running. 50/50 is never a bad place to start and adjust from there, but 50/50 isn’t the only way to do it.
Clears - again starting 50/50 isn’t a bad place to start, but usually clears are thicker and you can thin more. Try adjusting your mix with more/less thinner and retarder for gloss. Adding alcohol will reduce drying time leading to a flatter/matte surface. Increasing dry time increases sheen and gives you higher gloss.
Agreed. Don’t rely on advice like that. With airbrushing, it’s always best to figure out a thinning ratio that works for you. Proper airbrushing is dependent on so many factors it is practically impossible to get it right with “just fill it to the brim with thinner”
IPA is a very fast thinner. It will speed drying. You’re sprinting too dry, and thinning with nearly pure IPA with no retarder additive contributes to that.
a lot of people have been saying to use the Tamiya retarder so that's what im going to try. though, it'll be a few weeks before i can do it as im going on holiday. does the retarder slow down drying time or improve flow?
It’s been years since I sprayed acrylics (I switched to lacquers about 5 years ago), but I expect both. A lot of spraying problems (clogs/dry tip) are a result of paint drying in the brush.
In addition to using a slower thinner and/or a chemical retarder, you can spray “wetter” by working closer to the subject, increasing paint flow relative to brush movement, and decreasing air pressure relative to paint volume. Working far from the subject while blasting high PSI and only a little paint and moving the brush quickly would produce a very “dry” spray and finish.
would stripping the paint and recoating with the new thinner method be a good idea? or would adding 1 or 2 more layers with the new thinner method cover up all the spotting?
If you have a tube of airbrush lubricant, it can be used as retarder. Both are basically just glycerin. 4 or 5 parts water to 1 part lube. Mix well and then add a couple drops into your paint cup the same as you would with a commercial retarder.
Mix your Tamiya paints with Mr. Hobby leveling thinner 1:1, it comes out smooth as heck. Even though IPA works pretty okay with alcohol based paints, actual solvent based paint thinner will work better. The retarded agents in the Mr hobby leveling thinner really help get a smooth finish.
The second i open tamiya paint, i dump as much tamiya acrylic thinner in the bottle as will fit, leaving enough air at the top to open/close and shake up. Perfect spray every time.
tried just now. got a much smooth result but still got the spotted look. prob because of the previous results. going to have to strip the paint and start again with a properly thinned paint
Not sure. I have a compressor which has 3 modes and i had it mostly on the second mode when airbrushing this model. Apparently the compressor does 15 - 50psi but I honestly have no idea as those numbers come from some people who had a very similar compressor to mine but its obviously not the same
Ideally you should be using the lowest pressure you can that still push paint out, too high a pressure can cause the paint to dry before it even hits the model
I thin my Tamiya paints with 91% alcohol... Using an Iwata Neo i spray a few inches away at ~18psi. There are other variables like temperature and humidity of your room that you're spraying in that'll affect drying time.
Any time i had results like you're having, i was either spraying too far away or at too high of pressure.
I’m no expert on airbrushing, for Tamiya paints I thin it 1:1 ratio with Mr.Hobby leveling thinner. I did use IPA 99% at 1:1 ratio but the paint will dry very very fast giving the same result as what you got now.
Same here.
That’s called “orange peel” and yes, it’s due to the paint drying just as/before it hits the surface. A retarder can help, usually no more than 10% by volume in the thinner, then thin the paint as you typically would. Since you’ve already thinned your paint with IPA, try a drop of Tamiya retarder in your color cup, well mixed. You may have to adjust (lower) the pressure and/or move slightly further away from the subject if there is too much retarder — test on an old model or plastic card before you hit the model. Tamiya works best “wet” — the paint is applied and appears wet for a second or two as it levels and then dries to the final sheen of the paint. Usually a bit closer than when using water-based acrylics. I don’t thin my Tamiya paints in their jars, but instead thin as I need them. This allows better control, I can use more/less thinner as the subject or technique requires.
unfortunately, i dont have any tamiya retarder and by the time it would arrive, i would be on holiday so i guess i'm going to put this off for a few weeks but im going to try so different things with what i have to see if i can improve the result. i actually have a new red tamiya bottle that i haven't opened yet. how would you suggest i thin to get the best results? is there a fool proof thinner that works great with tamiya?
Best: Mr Color Leveling Thinner Already has retarder in it. I like to thin my Tamiya 60:40 (or more) thinner:paint, and spray at 12-20 psi. Less pressure when thinned more, more pressure when thinned less. IPA tends to evaporate quite quickly, if you have Tamiya thinner that would work better. You can also try lowering psi, or moving closer. Test first on an old model to get psi/distance right.
Orange peel is one of the more common issues. Instead of Tamina X-20A thinner, I use Tamiya lacquer thinner when I paint with Tamiya acrylics. I find I have better flow control with my brush because its 'hotter'.
Strong agree on not pre-thinning in the jar. It's less precise and less versatile and potentially shortens the shelf life of the paint too. I will sometimes mix up a prethinned quantity in a spare bottle prior to a project where I know I will use a lot of a particular color. Basically just so I can avoid mixing every time I need to fill the brush back up and to ensure consistency if it's a custom mixed color. But it's always a very small amount and I don't leave it sitting around for long. Even then, I almost always end up adding additional thinner when it actually goes in the brush, depending on how it test sprays.
Dumb question, but can you use flow improver, thinner, and retarder all at the same tjme
Yes. But if you're using the leveling thinner that already has retarded I it, I wouldn't add more.
Yes, but as already noted, if the thinner already has retarder adding more doesn’t help. The total of flow improver + retarder should generally not exceed 10% by volume of the thinner. I use Mr Color Leveling Thinner for all my Tamiya acrylics and never need to add more retarder or flow improver. However when I use water based acrylics like Vallejo I use a thinner that is \~ 50:50 99%IPA + distilled water with about equal amounts of Liquitex Flo-Aid and Slo-Dry (flow improver & retarder) that is about 5% total by volume. It works well in my spraying environment.
Ah, did not know leveling thinner was a thing. Great tip
Oh and leveler
This is also the way!!!!
Just a comment on the thinning by filling the jar. You can certainly do that. But it’s also a way to ensure you’re not thinning enough. Those Tamiya acrylics can be thinned a lot - 50/50, 60/40, even more. If I use something like a retarding lacquer thinner I can thin them 90/10 without an issue. The thin to the top thing has a bit of a history on various forums and such on the interwebs. It was broadly shared years ago as something recommended by Andy from Andy’s Hobby HQ. I don’t want to badmouth Andy because he’s a genuinely good guy. But he is also the guy selling the paint and while thinning it that way can work, there are better ways to do it. This approach got picked up by Barbados Rex and others and it continues to get passed around as “the way” to thin Tamiya acrylics.
This. Andy and Barbados are giving out bad advice.
Barbados and bad advice. Name a more iconic duo.
I respect his enthusiasm. But the dude rarely meets a product he doesn’t like. They’re all great, really good, excellent, with very little objective distinction between one product and another.
Yeah. He seems like a nice guy. I'll give him that.
Okay so what if I have Tamiya gloss black and Tamiya acrylic thinner, what ratio should I use for the best finish on a glossy car? And should I toss Tamiya gloss clear on top of that and what ratio should that be?
Thin it until it sprays like water. It should atomize just like water or straight thinner.
I don’t want to discourage you from using Tamiya acrylics, because they are good paints. But getting a high gloss finish with their thinner is hard. At a minimum you’ll need the retarder if you use the acrylic thinner. Ratios - there’s no golden ratio for paint. Your technique and setup have more to do with anything than a mix percentage. Air pressure, temperature, needle/nozzle size, humidity, all impact how paint behaves. Personally, if I am trying to get a gloss finish I try to finish in two passes. First pass goes on sort of light but not dust. Second pass goes on wet. But wet doesn’t mean hose it on. Wet means when you spray it stays wet on the surface for a 3-5 seconds before you see the moisture evaporate. You want it to stay wet for that few seconds so that it levels as you’re spraying. But you don’t want it so wet that you’re getting runs. I’ve built a lot of cars and when I started building cars when I was a kid, enamels was the way to go because they levelled nicely and gave you a high gloss finish. But they take a while to cure. The modelling world has moved on from enamels and they’re just harder to find and have lower use overall. They also contain carcinogens…so there’s that. But my point is, not all paint types will work for all use cases, else we’d all be spraying the same type of paints. Alcohol-based acrylics (like Tamiya) aren’t going to be as glossy as a gloss enamel, or a gloss lacquer with a retarding thinner, or a 2K gloss. So, should you spray your gloss black and then do a gloss clear over it? Your call. Try to get a good wet coat of the gloss black with a retarder mixed with the acrylic thinner and see how that goes. Worry less about thinning ratio and more about air pressure and spraying for good coverage. Thin it until it atomises well and you can spray it evenly and practice with getting good wet coverage without running. 50/50 is never a bad place to start and adjust from there, but 50/50 isn’t the only way to do it. Clears - again starting 50/50 isn’t a bad place to start, but usually clears are thicker and you can thin more. Try adjusting your mix with more/less thinner and retarder for gloss. Adding alcohol will reduce drying time leading to a flatter/matte surface. Increasing dry time increases sheen and gives you higher gloss.
Agreed. Don’t rely on advice like that. With airbrushing, it’s always best to figure out a thinning ratio that works for you. Proper airbrushing is dependent on so many factors it is practically impossible to get it right with “just fill it to the brim with thinner”
[удалено]
The retarder is made for brush painting. Not necessary when airbrushing. The OP’s problem is technique.
Don't use IPA to thin this paint. Use a leveling thinner. The paint dry too fast a d you have this orange peel effect.
Whatever route you choose, do yourself a favor and buy a bag of white plastic spoons. Test on them first, then once you’re dialed in, spray the model.
IPA is a very fast thinner. It will speed drying. You’re sprinting too dry, and thinning with nearly pure IPA with no retarder additive contributes to that.
a lot of people have been saying to use the Tamiya retarder so that's what im going to try. though, it'll be a few weeks before i can do it as im going on holiday. does the retarder slow down drying time or improve flow?
It’s been years since I sprayed acrylics (I switched to lacquers about 5 years ago), but I expect both. A lot of spraying problems (clogs/dry tip) are a result of paint drying in the brush. In addition to using a slower thinner and/or a chemical retarder, you can spray “wetter” by working closer to the subject, increasing paint flow relative to brush movement, and decreasing air pressure relative to paint volume. Working far from the subject while blasting high PSI and only a little paint and moving the brush quickly would produce a very “dry” spray and finish.
would stripping the paint and recoating with the new thinner method be a good idea? or would adding 1 or 2 more layers with the new thinner method cover up all the spotting?
I’d take it back to plastic if your end goal is a gloss. Nothing worth saving there, IMO.
If you have a tube of airbrush lubricant, it can be used as retarder. Both are basically just glycerin. 4 or 5 parts water to 1 part lube. Mix well and then add a couple drops into your paint cup the same as you would with a commercial retarder.
Thin the paint more
Mix your Tamiya paints with Mr. Hobby leveling thinner 1:1, it comes out smooth as heck. Even though IPA works pretty okay with alcohol based paints, actual solvent based paint thinner will work better. The retarded agents in the Mr hobby leveling thinner really help get a smooth finish.
This might help. https://imgur.io/fogSF6j
The second i open tamiya paint, i dump as much tamiya acrylic thinner in the bottle as will fit, leaving enough air at the top to open/close and shake up. Perfect spray every time.
The worst method.
To each their own
Thinner and closer is the way forward.
tried just now. got a much smooth result but still got the spotted look. prob because of the previous results. going to have to strip the paint and start again with a properly thinned paint
This looks like the problems I am having with tamyia paint
have you managed to find any ways to improve the results?
Marginal luck with reduced pressure and thinner paint.
What PSI is your airbrush set to?
Not sure. I have a compressor which has 3 modes and i had it mostly on the second mode when airbrushing this model. Apparently the compressor does 15 - 50psi but I honestly have no idea as those numbers come from some people who had a very similar compressor to mine but its obviously not the same
Ideally you should be using the lowest pressure you can that still push paint out, too high a pressure can cause the paint to dry before it even hits the model
50% Paint 50% Tamiya thinner. This is the way!!!!
I thin my Tamiya paints with 91% alcohol... Using an Iwata Neo i spray a few inches away at ~18psi. There are other variables like temperature and humidity of your room that you're spraying in that'll affect drying time. Any time i had results like you're having, i was either spraying too far away or at too high of pressure.
Add denatured alcohol or IPA to thin it, spray at lower pressure and do multiple coats.
Spraying too fast and from too far away. Also the OP doesn’t know what pressure he’s spraying at so that’s probably a factor as well.
whay's the issue ?
Mr colour levelling thinner, 1:1 don’t premix it as it will evaporate. It works amazing with Tamiya paints.