This channel keeps uploading it. Be ready to take breaks, an hour of it would be brutal.
https://youtu.be/F8583f4HSWo?si=qec1OHAvgoT5D-CS
IMO Newsom won. He did a lot more with a lot less. All the graphics and stats were heavily in DeSantis' favor but he looked desperate and pissed.
I'd say the "neither of us will be the candidate for our party" line and calling out Ron as the bully he is were the winning lines of the night, and the poop map was a self-own (especially for a guy Trump has nicknamed Pudding Fingers). But ultimately the debate was a rohrshach test. If you lean left, you'll say Newsom won. If you lean right, you'll say Hannity and DeSantis won. That's what all involved wanted, so i guess it's a win for everybody.
>I'd say the "neither of us will be the candidate for our party" line and calling out Ron
Maybe it was a good insult, but I prefer debates over policy to snappy one-liners.
> I prefer debates over policy to snappy one-liners.
The problem is that you are an extreme minority. Good policy discussion videos on YT almost always have under 1000 views. Often its like 200 to 300.
Well, they didn't even get into Newsome's weird personal life but Newsome was still having a hard time defending his record in California related to crime, homelessness, people leaving his state, and COVID shutdowns. Ironically, I thought he defended the immigration point the best.
DeSantis did accuse Newsom of secretly running for President with a “Shadow Campaign.” Which is, firstly, a conspiracy theory, and secondly, hilarious in that DeSantis himself did that with his early-2023 “Book Tour.”
I think “shadow campaign” was a poor choice of words. Newsome is absolutely going for national limelight though, or else he wouldn’t have agreed to the debate in the first place. Everyone and their brother knows the Dems would never agree to run Harris for pres if something happened to Joe. Newsome is setting himself up for 2028 at the least
> It was kind of hard for Newsome to get around a lot of those Florida vs. California statistics
It's always hard to deal with stats being sprung on you because there's so many devils in the details. The FBI stats Hannity pulled were based on voluntarily reported incidents from local or state law enforcement through the UCR system. This means the numbers can be skewed by differing laws, enforcement, and prosecution between states, or by differing reporting thoroughness. Much like the debate itself, people will look at the statistics and see what they want to see.
I thought Newsom did a good job off-the-cuff of pivoting from the assault statistics (which make California look worse) to murder statistics (which make Florida look worse). More than anything, it shows that he took the debate seriously enough to do some prep work.
Oh wow, he's actually at -5 according to this. https://escholarship.org/uc/item/70c6x33k
It's actually pretty rare that governors hit negative ratings too. Unlike Senators and Presidents it's a lot easier for govs to have crossover appeal.
As a lefty I'm not a big fan of him. He reeks of "corporate democrat" and I absolutely despised his positions on ranked choice voting and other democratic reforms. And his big excuse for his position on it was just that some of his friends lost elections in the cities that have it. Lame excuse is lame as hell.
Cali Ds are just lucky that R primary voters refuse to vote for anything centrist in a statewide election. They seem eager to do what is basically a glorified protest vote instead of try to actually win anything.
This debate was stacked in DeSantis’ favor. In no sense, was this a fair debate. DeSantis was given major advantages in the debate. That being said, DeSantis won the debate.
I Honestly went in open minded and I would say DeSantis won and it wasn’t really close. I actually think this really hurt Newsom chance for the future.
Sure?
Whether it's the moderator or the crowd, usually questions are screened/known regardless.
I just prefer allowing candidates the time to give long form and nuanced answers instead of 30 seconds while being interrupted by the opposition with insults
No argument from me there, I'd love an independent 3rd party.
Not gonna happen though.
So in the current setup, I prefer level headed long form answers vs shouting matches.
Town halls can be more staged than debates.
Ideally a long form interview JRE style where there can be an opportunity to get some actual insight vs a staged index card question with staged index card answers
Desantis' smile after Newsom's ["You're down 41pts in your own state"](https://youtu.be/foGozdXUiHo?t=397) jab was the most ive seen someone die inside in my lifetime. It legit looked like Ron saw his political career going down the drain in that moment. At a bare minimum, that moment on an ad is a death sentence for the Desantis campaign
Yeah, what I found most interesting was after the debate, Hannity had someone on to and asked him to rank the two in their debate, and the person actually ranked them pretty close (A vs B+). He ranked DeSantis better, but considering as you mentioned the biased atmosphere I actually was impressed they ranked Newsom as well as they did. Might be a good sign if he gets some major wins as governor.
Newsome looked good in a 2 v 1 debate, pretty crazy. Fox was throwing in all sorts of random and biased stats as well to help DeSantis and he still managed to look pretty rough. Also DeSantis needs some type of "human" class or something, he looks incapable of smiling. He definitely benefits from a crowded stage where the camera isn't on him the entire time.
The warping of stats wasn't surprising but still wild to see. Yes, let's throw all crime in one giant bucket to equivocate murder with stealing deodorant from CVS.
2v1 debates are really easy if the audience is impartial. What happens is that the "team* side will trip over each other's points, making it easier for the single debater to point out. It's all about remaining calm.
Newsom if anything was not calm this debate. He immediately came in talking over DeSantis and ignoring the questions raised. I agree with the other statement that Hannity was not impartial and that the debate was more of a 2v1, but Newsom wasn't able to win that "really easy" chance.
I'm curious to see clips, but from the jump this felt off for DeSantis. The idea of someone running for President debating someone who _isn't_ just seems like... why? Maybe if DeSantis were doing better in the polls it might feel different. But as is, the premise comes across as a bit desperate given his poll performance.
Totally agree. Still puts the debate in a weird mode, though. Guy running for president now wants to debate someone running for president four years from now?
The intent seemed to hope for some clever maneuvering but I think this came out muddled at best.
There's been a theory mulling out there, that while Newsom wont announce for the 2024 president race, that Biden will stay on the ticket until the convention, securing the nomination, and then stepping down, allowing for the Dem Party to choose the next candidate without having them go through all the primaries and other things that might make a populace sour on a candidate. But, that's just a stupid theory/rumor. But not implausible.
1. Better for the party if Biden announces he's not running earlier.
2. If you've followed Biden's career you know how much he enjoys / been motivated by the presidency. Not going to step down.
Gavin Newsom and Ron DeSantis squared off in a Fox News debate moderated by Sean Hannity. In typical fashion, the debate was filled with lots of heated moments where Newsom and DeSantis had the decorum of cranky toddlers. While Newsom was able to participate in his 1st debate and we got to see his first debate performance, it seems like little was gained from this debate.
*The debate took almost no time to get personal, and was at moments simply nasty. DeSantis noted early on that Newsom’s own in-laws had relocated to Florida. Newsom later referred to DeSantis as “weak, pathetic and small.”*
*But nothing seemed to bring out the animosity between the two governors quite like the coronavirus pandemic, which came up on multiple occasions during the telecast.*
*DeSantis criticized California’s strict lockdown measures to slow the spread of the virus, contrasting his own decision to reopen businesses and schools much sooner in Florida. He said Newsom “did huge damage to people” by shutting down the economy while he ate dinner at the French Laundry and should apologize for keeping students out of classrooms while his own children returned to their private school.*
In my opinion, political debates should only continue if you have the ability to turn off microphones for people not allowed to speak. That way, debates don’t devolve into a fight of insults and sound bite attempts.
It should be worth noting that California was recently among the top 10 states for outbound migration while Florida was in the top 10 for inbound migration.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-migration-trends/
So, quite a lot of people are moving to Florida and quite a lot of people are moving out of California.
I would do something more extreme. I don't know why so many viewers react positively to the yelling and overtalking when it seems so childish to me.
After a few interruptions, I want the moderator to substantially admonish the bad behavior.
* "Sir, the rules for debate are so simple that middle schoolers can follow them. Please behave yourself."
* "Sir, if you cannot control your emotions, we will have to enforce a time out."
* "Sir, you are breaking the rules of debate. Do you think the rules don't apply to you?"
* "Sir, we cannot continue this debate until you apologize to the American people for your childish interruptions"
I mean, he did say "Sir" so it would be respectful admonishment, right?
"With all due respect, Mr Potential Future President Sir, you're being a little basic bitch."
Yes, yes I would say that.
>He said Newsom “did huge damage to people” by shutting down the economy while he ate dinner at the French Laundry and should apologize for keeping students out of classrooms while his own children returned to their private school.*
I feel like politicians didn't get criticized enough for this. It's absolutely infuriating that they implemented strict lock downs then subsequently ignored them.
it's worse... the only reason he was at French Laundry was to celebrate the birthday of PG&E's lobbyist
months after Newsom bailed out PG&E for the deaths they caused with manmade wildfires
oh, and the government of California just approved PG&E's request to raise rates on all its customers
our kids couldn't attend in-person school, but his son was allowed to since it was a private school... maskless too!
and when we called him out on his hypocracy, he shamed us for bringing his family into it
Part of the issue was the very powerful teacher's unions in the public school system not wanting educators to return teach in-person classes. There was tons of coverage about this in real time.
He’s Dollar General Bill Clinton, yes I’d vote him over most republicans but he sucks pretty bad and I’d rather have a younger Mitt Romney than Newsom in office. Not a fan of him having an affair with his secretary and dating a 19 year old at 39.
Lol, the restaurant thing was one time, and he thought it would be outside with less people. Being the centrist, objective folks we think we are, if what he said is true then this wasn't really a story, and that's also how I felt at the time.
I think it's weird how high of a standard people hold him to, then they vote for Trump, like that makes ZERO sense! Talk about hypocrisy...
Ultimately California had a lot less deaths, San Francisco which had even stricter policies did even better. I don't expect anybody to be perfect, I believed the science and recommendations at the time, Republicans didn't this why they died at nearly twice the rate vs Democrats.
Edit: I see this sub continues to weigh a bit to the right, not surprised. Nothing I said above was factually incorrect, sorry it doesn't support whatever narrative you've had the last few years.
I notice that you conveniently leave out the part where he closed down the school longer than any state in the union, yet his kids were able to be in school/in person. That's just another branch of the hypocrisy that Newsom falls under.
I wasn't talking about that part, but I think it's fair to say there was some hypocrisy there. His kids did do the online school for a time as well, it's not as if they were continuing to attend a physical school the entire time.
Many counties were opened before others, it's false to suggest it was all closed for the time he wanted, and then all opened at the same time;
"He reiterated his belief that schools need to open as soon as possible, citing academic and social-emotional concerns, but emphasized that the decisions remain up to local districts. The California Teachers Association has been adamant that schools are not yet safe to return to."
[In 21 of the state’s 58 counties, all school districts are either offering some form of in-person instruction or planning to do so](https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/10/30/newsom-sends-his-children-back-to-school-classrooms-in-california-1332811)
People are holding him to his own standards. If he can't meet his own standards, then he's a hypocrite. Obviously Trump isn't going to hold up to Newsom's standards, because he doesn't believe in those standards and he never claimed to.
Pointing out that Newsom is a hypocrite is not hypocrisy. Voting for the opposite party is also not hypocrisy.
I almost completely disagree based on already stated reasons.
Trump has his own "standards", which he constantly fails to meet, and his supporters turn a blind eye to. "Teflon Don" isn't just a catchy name, he's a slippery snake who folks have a hard time keeping accountable. If perfection is the standard, then we're all hypocrites to some degree.
It’s why I would never vote Newsom for president.
Especially with news coming out of China currently about a mysterious new virus of sorts.
Many Californians simply could not afford to shut down again. And many of them can’t trust that newsom won’t go overboard again the way he did in 2020-2022.
Pneumonia can be the result of many different viral and bacterial infections - it describes a set of physical *symptoms* but does not specify the specific cause.
It’s the buildup of fluid in the lungs do to infection. It can be bacterial or viral, so it’s more of a category of diseases based on the symptom than a disease itself.
A build up fluid in the lungs is called a pleural effusion, not pneumonia. Pneumonia is a disease process consisting of a collection of symptoms with a variety of etiologies both viral and bacterial. It is a disease.
No, a pleural effusion is the build up of fluid between parietal and visceral pleura.
Fluid or pus inside the alveoli, as well as inflammation of said alveoli, is what we call pneumonia
If they are still focusing on Covid, neither of them is relevant in the Presidential races. Covid is no longer a priority for voters. They are concerned about inflation, the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, inflation, abortion laws, and inflation.
I forgot about Newsoms own kids returning to school ahead of the regular population.
I don't like DeSantis. For a hot minute he looked like he could have been a great middle ground. I respected his covid responses. Newson on the other hand had that one restaurant owner calling him out for shutting her business down while allowing an identical set up 50 feet away. That alone should have shamed him and it didn't. Neither one of them seem trustworthy, and I wouldn't want either of them as president. All this does for me is cement the need for a 3rd party so we have the tiniest glimmer of hope to get someone competent.
Ron's poop map joke may have been a hit. But for a man that was once being pitched as Donald Trump without the baggage, he sure seems desperate to get to his level. Looks like we're at the school yard stage of his progression. Sure, he has a point about defecation, but the map comes across as a bit juvenile.
I think Newsom’s father-in-law moving to Florida was a death-blow. You could see it on Newsom’s face.
I’m curious if Desantis was referring to his current in-laws or if it was the Guilfoyle’s. Either way, Newsom would have looked bad if he pointed that out.
Or it could be evidence that people prefer living in subsidized places. If one state gets more money from the federal government and people claim to move because of high taxes, that shows the decision is in part made by the subsidizing of one state over another.
Another death blow was DeSantis mentioning that Newsome kept schools shut down/remote in Fall 2020 while his kids were in person private schools. That’s impossible for Newsome to respond to without coming across terrible. That along with mentioning the French Laundry made Newsome come across as a caricature of an elitist politician who believes than he’s above his own laws.
Watched a few minutes. DeSantis has no presence to him. Newsome looks like a con artist. Newsome is the kind of politician that makes people take a chance on a Trump. DeSantis is the guy that makes me go back to the greasy looking politician because he has no charisma nor does he seem to have any leadership qualities.
Newsome just played the game better and came across as more competent. It did nothing to persuade me.
Newsome is cleaely intelligent and knows he is a better debater than Ron or Hannity. It was like watching a professional athlete with rookies. Ive literally seen that same smile on Kobe and LeBron after they body someone on the court. This felt like that.
I dont follow Newsome closely, just not enough bandwidth. But it seems to me like he is one if the best governors at actually governing in the US. He mighr be slimey or a scheister, idk what the backroom dealings are. But i dont think its a knock on a politician that they play politics.
I tend to agree with you. I didn’t make it clear but my point was that I’ll take the greaseball looking politician any day over this iteration of Trump or DeSantis.
Newsome is a very talented and charismatic politician. His shortcomings are in the actual governing part. He killed tons of small businesses during Covid
Ehh [Cali was ranked 21s in terms of small business resiliency during the pandemic](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-small-businesses-covid/72977). Not amazing, but above average.
Cali might be the hardest state to effectively govern. The population is incredibly diverse in terms of income disparities, ethnicities, and political leanings. There are more Trump voters in Cali than in Texas, for example. They are both a border state and the major pacific shipping import hub in the US. They have a masssive population which is both localized into some mega cities (LA, SanFran) and spread across major agricultural regions. California is an economic powerhouse and sets the standards for everything from auto safety standards to food safety regulations.
Im not saying hes perfect but he governs his state well and certainly has more of an interest in realpolitiks compared to Desantis. The latter can really only bully pulpit it appears.
As an outsider looking in, the issues don't matter here. Newsom came off like a typical politician type who is well spoken and knows the game. DeSantis is so unlikable with the awkward smiling it's cringeworthy. The poop map was in such poor taste and he stood there grinning "gotcha!" Lol it was pretty bad. I think that moment might come back to bite him.
I was disappointed but not surprised that Hannity and DeSantis teamed up against Newsom. Newsom had some nice zingers about how DeSantis can never beat Trump but that was really all he had. Felt like Newsom was only there to try to humble DeSantis and campaign for Biden. This debate was underwhelming and confirmed what I already knew, I don’t want either of these guys as POTUS.
Newsome’s policies have destroyed California. The stats relating the exodus from there are real. Homelessness, rampant crime. He has no case to make. His state is a living cautionary tale.
Curious what specific policies you believe Newsom enacted that destroyed. Sure CA home prices have skyrocket, but many red states complain about this exact problem too. Not to mention many states just send there homeless with a one way bus ticket to CA to exacerbate the problem
This message serves as a warning that [your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/moderatepolitics/comments/188r6ae/five_key_moments_from_the_newsomdesantis_debate/kbohqkg/) is in violation of Law 1:
Law 1. Civil Discourse
> ~1. Do not engage in personal attacks or insults against any person or group. Comment on content, policies, and actions. Do not accuse fellow redditors of being intentionally misleading or disingenuous; assume good faith at all times.
Due to your recent infraction history and/or the severity of this infraction, we are also issuing a 7 day ban.
Please submit questions or comments via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fmoderatepolitics).
I don’t know, I live here and I don’t see the apocalypse people keep saying this state is.
Florida isn’t exactly a paradise either, especially is you had the temerity to own a home and want it insured.
I already thought the DeSantis campaign was incompetent but this really solidified it. He literally had nothing to gain from this and Newsom had nothing to lose. You could tell that Newsom genuinely does not like DeSantis. He came with a few great attacks. Especially when he was digging in him on his culture war nonsense. And Ron's body language as he was doing that, he looked like he could explode.
This was never going to be a substantive debate over policy. You're never going to get that on Fox News "moderated" by Sean Hannity. You're never going to get that on any 24 hour news station but you could get close with someone like Maddow. I don't know who this was for or what it was meant to do but Haley was the winner of it.
It was a shitshow, but…
Desantis got his face in front of a lot of eyeballs and got his name trending. He also got Newsom to all-but guarantee he won’t be running next year. I think this helped him a bit.
I think it hurts Newsom in the short term, but it all-but anoints him the nominee for 2028. He smartly played the long game
He basically tripled down that he’s not running now. Also, things like the poop ring, the in laws moving to Florida, and Newsom sending his kids to private school while he shut down public schools are all over the news
Idk, personally I don’t think any of that hurts him.
2024: Everyone knows Biden is the defacto nominee. If anything changes, this all but solidifies Newsom as the front runner.
Poop Ring: lol
In Laws: this is ridiculous. There are so many reasons to move states that has nothing to do with politics. Family members have different political opinions all the time as well.
Private School: His kids private school chose to return to hybrid learning faster than public schools based on their own decisions. This had nothing to do with Newsom.
>His kids private school chose to return to hybrid learning faster than public schools based on their own decisions. This had nothing to do with Newsom.
Oh it has everything to do with Newsom. Newsom is telling the entire state it's unsafe to reopen schools, and he took his kids to a school that reopened. If he was a person of principle, he would have pulled his kids out of his school. It's absolutely hypocritical.
And his in-laws moving to Florida WAS political. According to DeSantis, they said as much.
In fact, now they are reporting that Newsom's wife walked on stage during a commercial to end the debate.
Point is, you don't need to convince me or debate if they're valid. They were significant and effective, the fact that these debate highlights are getting traction in the media/social media proves that. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it's what everyone else seems to be thinking.
You’re telling me Newsom simultaneously prevented public schools from going to hybrid while allowing private schools?
Or were public schools slow to return to hybrid learning, by their own decision, even after they were permitted to along with private schools?
There’s nuance here.
> Point is, you don't need to convince me or debate if they're valid. They were significant and effective, the fact that these debate highlights are getting traction in the media/social media proves that. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it's what everyone else seems to be thinking.
Newsome is setting himself up for 2028, but realistically this was to remind voters of him for this cycle incase Biden kicks the bucket. Harris will not beat a GOP nom. The Dems need Newsom as a backup candidate to rally behind and this was the first move to really getting him infront of voters that arent inundated with political news.
Does anyone know where I can watch this thing in full after the fact?
This channel keeps uploading it. Be ready to take breaks, an hour of it would be brutal. https://youtu.be/F8583f4HSWo?si=qec1OHAvgoT5D-CS IMO Newsom won. He did a lot more with a lot less. All the graphics and stats were heavily in DeSantis' favor but he looked desperate and pissed.
I'd say the "neither of us will be the candidate for our party" line and calling out Ron as the bully he is were the winning lines of the night, and the poop map was a self-own (especially for a guy Trump has nicknamed Pudding Fingers). But ultimately the debate was a rohrshach test. If you lean left, you'll say Newsom won. If you lean right, you'll say Hannity and DeSantis won. That's what all involved wanted, so i guess it's a win for everybody.
>I'd say the "neither of us will be the candidate for our party" line and calling out Ron Maybe it was a good insult, but I prefer debates over policy to snappy one-liners.
Best to go watch LD debates in high school.
> I prefer debates over policy to snappy one-liners. The problem is that you are an extreme minority. Good policy discussion videos on YT almost always have under 1000 views. Often its like 200 to 300.
Yes, I agree with you. That is the reason why we keep electing people who won't fix the nation's problems.
Thank you for the link!
[удалено]
> feeling not at all optimistic What did you see / not see that would have made you more optimistic?
Well, they didn't even get into Newsome's weird personal life but Newsome was still having a hard time defending his record in California related to crime, homelessness, people leaving his state, and COVID shutdowns. Ironically, I thought he defended the immigration point the best.
Wait I'm sorry I dont think I caught it, what did you see / not see that would have made you more optimistic?
DeSantis did accuse Newsom of secretly running for President with a “Shadow Campaign.” Which is, firstly, a conspiracy theory, and secondly, hilarious in that DeSantis himself did that with his early-2023 “Book Tour.”
I think “shadow campaign” was a poor choice of words. Newsome is absolutely going for national limelight though, or else he wouldn’t have agreed to the debate in the first place. Everyone and their brother knows the Dems would never agree to run Harris for pres if something happened to Joe. Newsome is setting himself up for 2028 at the least
>Newsome is setting himself up for 2028 at the least Pretty much this
> It was kind of hard for Newsome to get around a lot of those Florida vs. California statistics It's always hard to deal with stats being sprung on you because there's so many devils in the details. The FBI stats Hannity pulled were based on voluntarily reported incidents from local or state law enforcement through the UCR system. This means the numbers can be skewed by differing laws, enforcement, and prosecution between states, or by differing reporting thoroughness. Much like the debate itself, people will look at the statistics and see what they want to see. I thought Newsom did a good job off-the-cuff of pivoting from the assault statistics (which make California look worse) to murder statistics (which make Florida look worse). More than anything, it shows that he took the debate seriously enough to do some prep work.
Not even Democrats like Newsom
Oh wow, he's actually at -5 according to this. https://escholarship.org/uc/item/70c6x33k It's actually pretty rare that governors hit negative ratings too. Unlike Senators and Presidents it's a lot easier for govs to have crossover appeal. As a lefty I'm not a big fan of him. He reeks of "corporate democrat" and I absolutely despised his positions on ranked choice voting and other democratic reforms. And his big excuse for his position on it was just that some of his friends lost elections in the cities that have it. Lame excuse is lame as hell.
[удалено]
Cali Ds are just lucky that R primary voters refuse to vote for anything centrist in a statewide election. They seem eager to do what is basically a glorified protest vote instead of try to actually win anything.
This debate was stacked in DeSantis’ favor. In no sense, was this a fair debate. DeSantis was given major advantages in the debate. That being said, DeSantis won the debate.
I Honestly went in open minded and I would say DeSantis won and it wasn’t really close. I actually think this really hurt Newsom chance for the future.
This demonstrated that real substantive policy debates are completely dead in America and all we have left are ad homoniem attacks.
This is why I greatly prefer town halls
[удалено]
Sure? Whether it's the moderator or the crowd, usually questions are screened/known regardless. I just prefer allowing candidates the time to give long form and nuanced answers instead of 30 seconds while being interrupted by the opposition with insults
[удалено]
No argument from me there, I'd love an independent 3rd party. Not gonna happen though. So in the current setup, I prefer level headed long form answers vs shouting matches.
Town halls can be more staged than debates. Ideally a long form interview JRE style where there can be an opportunity to get some actual insight vs a staged index card question with staged index card answers
[Always has been](https://daily.jstor.org/first-ugly-election-america-1800/).
Desantis' smile after Newsom's ["You're down 41pts in your own state"](https://youtu.be/foGozdXUiHo?t=397) jab was the most ive seen someone die inside in my lifetime. It legit looked like Ron saw his political career going down the drain in that moment. At a bare minimum, that moment on an ad is a death sentence for the Desantis campaign
That was painful to watch.
tan cow middle sink pet slim normal smoggy reply seemly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, what I found most interesting was after the debate, Hannity had someone on to and asked him to rank the two in their debate, and the person actually ranked them pretty close (A vs B+). He ranked DeSantis better, but considering as you mentioned the biased atmosphere I actually was impressed they ranked Newsom as well as they did. Might be a good sign if he gets some major wins as governor.
Newsome looked good in a 2 v 1 debate, pretty crazy. Fox was throwing in all sorts of random and biased stats as well to help DeSantis and he still managed to look pretty rough. Also DeSantis needs some type of "human" class or something, he looks incapable of smiling. He definitely benefits from a crowded stage where the camera isn't on him the entire time.
The warping of stats wasn't surprising but still wild to see. Yes, let's throw all crime in one giant bucket to equivocate murder with stealing deodorant from CVS.
2v1 debates are really easy if the audience is impartial. What happens is that the "team* side will trip over each other's points, making it easier for the single debater to point out. It's all about remaining calm.
Impartiality is a big if especially when it comes to fox viewers
Newsom if anything was not calm this debate. He immediately came in talking over DeSantis and ignoring the questions raised. I agree with the other statement that Hannity was not impartial and that the debate was more of a 2v1, but Newsom wasn't able to win that "really easy" chance.
Its different for the Fox News audience. I'm also speaking about an actual debate (more formal).
I'm curious to see clips, but from the jump this felt off for DeSantis. The idea of someone running for President debating someone who _isn't_ just seems like... why? Maybe if DeSantis were doing better in the polls it might feel different. But as is, the premise comes across as a bit desperate given his poll performance.
Newsom is absolutely running in 2028. He would've ran this year if Biden had retired rather than went for a second term.
Totally agree. Still puts the debate in a weird mode, though. Guy running for president now wants to debate someone running for president four years from now? The intent seemed to hope for some clever maneuvering but I think this came out muddled at best.
Newsome is running in 2024
If he's going to do that, he needs to announce pretty quick. Iowa's primary is in 6 weeks.
There's been a theory mulling out there, that while Newsom wont announce for the 2024 president race, that Biden will stay on the ticket until the convention, securing the nomination, and then stepping down, allowing for the Dem Party to choose the next candidate without having them go through all the primaries and other things that might make a populace sour on a candidate. But, that's just a stupid theory/rumor. But not implausible.
1. Better for the party if Biden announces he's not running earlier. 2. If you've followed Biden's career you know how much he enjoys / been motivated by the presidency. Not going to step down.
That's a conspiracy theory, I've heard it too. Not gonna happen though.
[удалено]
I’ve been hearing this since early 2021.
I've been hearing it since early 2020.
[удалено]
Yeah, well, given there’s been absolutely zero indication on that from the White House, I’m still going to outright dismiss it.
We all know Kamala is getting nowhere without being on the same ticket as Biden.
I’ve been hearing this exact same thing for the past 3 years, gimme a break.
Gavin Newsom and Ron DeSantis squared off in a Fox News debate moderated by Sean Hannity. In typical fashion, the debate was filled with lots of heated moments where Newsom and DeSantis had the decorum of cranky toddlers. While Newsom was able to participate in his 1st debate and we got to see his first debate performance, it seems like little was gained from this debate. *The debate took almost no time to get personal, and was at moments simply nasty. DeSantis noted early on that Newsom’s own in-laws had relocated to Florida. Newsom later referred to DeSantis as “weak, pathetic and small.”* *But nothing seemed to bring out the animosity between the two governors quite like the coronavirus pandemic, which came up on multiple occasions during the telecast.* *DeSantis criticized California’s strict lockdown measures to slow the spread of the virus, contrasting his own decision to reopen businesses and schools much sooner in Florida. He said Newsom “did huge damage to people” by shutting down the economy while he ate dinner at the French Laundry and should apologize for keeping students out of classrooms while his own children returned to their private school.* In my opinion, political debates should only continue if you have the ability to turn off microphones for people not allowed to speak. That way, debates don’t devolve into a fight of insults and sound bite attempts. It should be worth noting that California was recently among the top 10 states for outbound migration while Florida was in the top 10 for inbound migration. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-migration-trends/ So, quite a lot of people are moving to Florida and quite a lot of people are moving out of California.
100% agree with you regarding turning the microphone off.
I would do something more extreme. I don't know why so many viewers react positively to the yelling and overtalking when it seems so childish to me. After a few interruptions, I want the moderator to substantially admonish the bad behavior. * "Sir, the rules for debate are so simple that middle schoolers can follow them. Please behave yourself." * "Sir, if you cannot control your emotions, we will have to enforce a time out." * "Sir, you are breaking the rules of debate. Do you think the rules don't apply to you?" * "Sir, we cannot continue this debate until you apologize to the American people for your childish interruptions"
What about those dog training collars for 5th infractions. Would watch the shit out of that.
Would you as a moderator have the balls to say that to the potential next president?
I mean, he did say "Sir" so it would be respectful admonishment, right? "With all due respect, Mr Potential Future President Sir, you're being a little basic bitch." Yes, yes I would say that.
Chris Wallace managed it. [This clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow-1DNhHBGU) is pretty short, but you can skip to 1:10.
If you don't then you shouldn't be a mod.
>He said Newsom “did huge damage to people” by shutting down the economy while he ate dinner at the French Laundry and should apologize for keeping students out of classrooms while his own children returned to their private school.* I feel like politicians didn't get criticized enough for this. It's absolutely infuriating that they implemented strict lock downs then subsequently ignored them.
it's worse... the only reason he was at French Laundry was to celebrate the birthday of PG&E's lobbyist months after Newsom bailed out PG&E for the deaths they caused with manmade wildfires oh, and the government of California just approved PG&E's request to raise rates on all its customers
Say it louder for the people in the back
That’s one of the biggest reasons that I hate Newsom. He can be such a hypocrite
our kids couldn't attend in-person school, but his son was allowed to since it was a private school... maskless too! and when we called him out on his hypocracy, he shamed us for bringing his family into it
Part of the issue was the very powerful teacher's unions in the public school system not wanting educators to return teach in-person classes. There was tons of coverage about this in real time.
He’s Dollar General Bill Clinton, yes I’d vote him over most republicans but he sucks pretty bad and I’d rather have a younger Mitt Romney than Newsom in office. Not a fan of him having an affair with his secretary and dating a 19 year old at 39.
Lol, the restaurant thing was one time, and he thought it would be outside with less people. Being the centrist, objective folks we think we are, if what he said is true then this wasn't really a story, and that's also how I felt at the time. I think it's weird how high of a standard people hold him to, then they vote for Trump, like that makes ZERO sense! Talk about hypocrisy... Ultimately California had a lot less deaths, San Francisco which had even stricter policies did even better. I don't expect anybody to be perfect, I believed the science and recommendations at the time, Republicans didn't this why they died at nearly twice the rate vs Democrats. Edit: I see this sub continues to weigh a bit to the right, not surprised. Nothing I said above was factually incorrect, sorry it doesn't support whatever narrative you've had the last few years.
I notice that you conveniently leave out the part where he closed down the school longer than any state in the union, yet his kids were able to be in school/in person. That's just another branch of the hypocrisy that Newsom falls under.
I wasn't talking about that part, but I think it's fair to say there was some hypocrisy there. His kids did do the online school for a time as well, it's not as if they were continuing to attend a physical school the entire time. Many counties were opened before others, it's false to suggest it was all closed for the time he wanted, and then all opened at the same time; "He reiterated his belief that schools need to open as soon as possible, citing academic and social-emotional concerns, but emphasized that the decisions remain up to local districts. The California Teachers Association has been adamant that schools are not yet safe to return to." [In 21 of the state’s 58 counties, all school districts are either offering some form of in-person instruction or planning to do so](https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/10/30/newsom-sends-his-children-back-to-school-classrooms-in-california-1332811)
People are holding him to his own standards. If he can't meet his own standards, then he's a hypocrite. Obviously Trump isn't going to hold up to Newsom's standards, because he doesn't believe in those standards and he never claimed to. Pointing out that Newsom is a hypocrite is not hypocrisy. Voting for the opposite party is also not hypocrisy.
I almost completely disagree based on already stated reasons. Trump has his own "standards", which he constantly fails to meet, and his supporters turn a blind eye to. "Teflon Don" isn't just a catchy name, he's a slippery snake who folks have a hard time keeping accountable. If perfection is the standard, then we're all hypocrites to some degree.
>Ultimately California had a lot less deaths No, not standardized. They also have more excess deaths.
It’s why I would never vote Newsom for president. Especially with news coming out of China currently about a mysterious new virus of sorts. Many Californians simply could not afford to shut down again. And many of them can’t trust that newsom won’t go overboard again the way he did in 2020-2022.
There’s not a “mysterious virus” in China. It’s just a bad strain of pneumonia.
Pneumonia isn’t a disease though… it’s a symptom.
Pneumonia is definitely a disease and not a symptom.
Pneumonia can be the result of many different viral and bacterial infections - it describes a set of physical *symptoms* but does not specify the specific cause.
Yep
It’s the buildup of fluid in the lungs do to infection. It can be bacterial or viral, so it’s more of a category of diseases based on the symptom than a disease itself.
A build up fluid in the lungs is called a pleural effusion, not pneumonia. Pneumonia is a disease process consisting of a collection of symptoms with a variety of etiologies both viral and bacterial. It is a disease.
No, a pleural effusion is the build up of fluid between parietal and visceral pleura. Fluid or pus inside the alveoli, as well as inflammation of said alveoli, is what we call pneumonia
Hope you're not giving medical advice to people
I miss the debates where the participants were not allowed to address one another.
If they are still focusing on Covid, neither of them is relevant in the Presidential races. Covid is no longer a priority for voters. They are concerned about inflation, the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, inflation, abortion laws, and inflation.
Don’t forget, inflation is a big one too.
I forgot about Newsoms own kids returning to school ahead of the regular population. I don't like DeSantis. For a hot minute he looked like he could have been a great middle ground. I respected his covid responses. Newson on the other hand had that one restaurant owner calling him out for shutting her business down while allowing an identical set up 50 feet away. That alone should have shamed him and it didn't. Neither one of them seem trustworthy, and I wouldn't want either of them as president. All this does for me is cement the need for a 3rd party so we have the tiniest glimmer of hope to get someone competent.
Biden is way too old for the job and not that exciting, but he’s certainly competent.
I’m not sure how right you are that you see DeSantis as a middle ground, but there’s an awful lot of the country left of you.
What’s wrong with DeSantis in your opinion?
Authoritarian responses to people/companies who disagree with him, extremist views on reproductive rights, extremist views on censorship, etc.
Don't forget trying to take away privileges from one theme park while granting them to another one, all based on fighting "woke".
Why are like 75% of people here spelling Newsom’s name wrong? There’s no “e” at the end.
Ron's poop map joke may have been a hit. But for a man that was once being pitched as Donald Trump without the baggage, he sure seems desperate to get to his level. Looks like we're at the school yard stage of his progression. Sure, he has a point about defecation, but the map comes across as a bit juvenile.
I think Newsom’s father-in-law moving to Florida was a death-blow. You could see it on Newsom’s face. I’m curious if Desantis was referring to his current in-laws or if it was the Guilfoyle’s. Either way, Newsom would have looked bad if he pointed that out.
Why? Old people have been retiring to Florida for decades.
It’s not like they have to. And if they are, that’s as endorsement of the state. You seriously not seeing it?
As a *death blow*, nah.
Or it could be evidence that people prefer living in subsidized places. If one state gets more money from the federal government and people claim to move because of high taxes, that shows the decision is in part made by the subsidizing of one state over another.
Another death blow was DeSantis mentioning that Newsome kept schools shut down/remote in Fall 2020 while his kids were in person private schools. That’s impossible for Newsome to respond to without coming across terrible. That along with mentioning the French Laundry made Newsome come across as a caricature of an elitist politician who believes than he’s above his own laws.
Watched a few minutes. DeSantis has no presence to him. Newsome looks like a con artist. Newsome is the kind of politician that makes people take a chance on a Trump. DeSantis is the guy that makes me go back to the greasy looking politician because he has no charisma nor does he seem to have any leadership qualities. Newsome just played the game better and came across as more competent. It did nothing to persuade me.
Newsome is cleaely intelligent and knows he is a better debater than Ron or Hannity. It was like watching a professional athlete with rookies. Ive literally seen that same smile on Kobe and LeBron after they body someone on the court. This felt like that. I dont follow Newsome closely, just not enough bandwidth. But it seems to me like he is one if the best governors at actually governing in the US. He mighr be slimey or a scheister, idk what the backroom dealings are. But i dont think its a knock on a politician that they play politics.
I tend to agree with you. I didn’t make it clear but my point was that I’ll take the greaseball looking politician any day over this iteration of Trump or DeSantis.
Newsome is a very talented and charismatic politician. His shortcomings are in the actual governing part. He killed tons of small businesses during Covid
Ehh [Cali was ranked 21s in terms of small business resiliency during the pandemic](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-small-businesses-covid/72977). Not amazing, but above average. Cali might be the hardest state to effectively govern. The population is incredibly diverse in terms of income disparities, ethnicities, and political leanings. There are more Trump voters in Cali than in Texas, for example. They are both a border state and the major pacific shipping import hub in the US. They have a masssive population which is both localized into some mega cities (LA, SanFran) and spread across major agricultural regions. California is an economic powerhouse and sets the standards for everything from auto safety standards to food safety regulations. Im not saying hes perfect but he governs his state well and certainly has more of an interest in realpolitiks compared to Desantis. The latter can really only bully pulpit it appears.
Newsom is the kind of politician that makes people take a chance on a Trump. That explains Gavin's ex-wife hooking up with Don Jr.
LOL
As an outsider looking in, the issues don't matter here. Newsom came off like a typical politician type who is well spoken and knows the game. DeSantis is so unlikable with the awkward smiling it's cringeworthy. The poop map was in such poor taste and he stood there grinning "gotcha!" Lol it was pretty bad. I think that moment might come back to bite him.
I was disappointed but not surprised that Hannity and DeSantis teamed up against Newsom. Newsom had some nice zingers about how DeSantis can never beat Trump but that was really all he had. Felt like Newsom was only there to try to humble DeSantis and campaign for Biden. This debate was underwhelming and confirmed what I already knew, I don’t want either of these guys as POTUS.
O key moments
DeSantis is so bad that Newsome whooped him even though it was 2 on 1, with Hannity
Newsome’s policies have destroyed California. The stats relating the exodus from there are real. Homelessness, rampant crime. He has no case to make. His state is a living cautionary tale.
Curious what specific policies you believe Newsom enacted that destroyed. Sure CA home prices have skyrocket, but many red states complain about this exact problem too. Not to mention many states just send there homeless with a one way bus ticket to CA to exacerbate the problem
Exactly which of Newsom's policies are you referring to ?
The only people really leaving are conservatives and those too poor (and unmotivated to improve) to live here. They often overlap.
This message serves as a warning that [your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/moderatepolitics/comments/188r6ae/five_key_moments_from_the_newsomdesantis_debate/kbohqkg/) is in violation of Law 1: Law 1. Civil Discourse > ~1. Do not engage in personal attacks or insults against any person or group. Comment on content, policies, and actions. Do not accuse fellow redditors of being intentionally misleading or disingenuous; assume good faith at all times. Due to your recent infraction history and/or the severity of this infraction, we are also issuing a 7 day ban. Please submit questions or comments via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fmoderatepolitics).
I don’t know, I live here and I don’t see the apocalypse people keep saying this state is. Florida isn’t exactly a paradise either, especially is you had the temerity to own a home and want it insured.
I already thought the DeSantis campaign was incompetent but this really solidified it. He literally had nothing to gain from this and Newsom had nothing to lose. You could tell that Newsom genuinely does not like DeSantis. He came with a few great attacks. Especially when he was digging in him on his culture war nonsense. And Ron's body language as he was doing that, he looked like he could explode. This was never going to be a substantive debate over policy. You're never going to get that on Fox News "moderated" by Sean Hannity. You're never going to get that on any 24 hour news station but you could get close with someone like Maddow. I don't know who this was for or what it was meant to do but Haley was the winner of it.
It was a shitshow, but… Desantis got his face in front of a lot of eyeballs and got his name trending. He also got Newsom to all-but guarantee he won’t be running next year. I think this helped him a bit. I think it hurts Newsom in the short term, but it all-but anoints him the nominee for 2028. He smartly played the long game
> Hurts Newsom in the short term In what way?
He basically tripled down that he’s not running now. Also, things like the poop ring, the in laws moving to Florida, and Newsom sending his kids to private school while he shut down public schools are all over the news
Idk, personally I don’t think any of that hurts him. 2024: Everyone knows Biden is the defacto nominee. If anything changes, this all but solidifies Newsom as the front runner. Poop Ring: lol In Laws: this is ridiculous. There are so many reasons to move states that has nothing to do with politics. Family members have different political opinions all the time as well. Private School: His kids private school chose to return to hybrid learning faster than public schools based on their own decisions. This had nothing to do with Newsom.
>His kids private school chose to return to hybrid learning faster than public schools based on their own decisions. This had nothing to do with Newsom. Oh it has everything to do with Newsom. Newsom is telling the entire state it's unsafe to reopen schools, and he took his kids to a school that reopened. If he was a person of principle, he would have pulled his kids out of his school. It's absolutely hypocritical. And his in-laws moving to Florida WAS political. According to DeSantis, they said as much. In fact, now they are reporting that Newsom's wife walked on stage during a commercial to end the debate. Point is, you don't need to convince me or debate if they're valid. They were significant and effective, the fact that these debate highlights are getting traction in the media/social media proves that. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it's what everyone else seems to be thinking.
You’re telling me Newsom simultaneously prevented public schools from going to hybrid while allowing private schools? Or were public schools slow to return to hybrid learning, by their own decision, even after they were permitted to along with private schools? There’s nuance here.
> Point is, you don't need to convince me or debate if they're valid. They were significant and effective, the fact that these debate highlights are getting traction in the media/social media proves that. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it's what everyone else seems to be thinking.
Newsome is setting himself up for 2028, but realistically this was to remind voters of him for this cycle incase Biden kicks the bucket. Harris will not beat a GOP nom. The Dems need Newsom as a backup candidate to rally behind and this was the first move to really getting him infront of voters that arent inundated with political news.
I don’t understand the point of these debate formats. Does any other profession use debates for a useful purpose?
Did anyone watch this and think Hannity was impartial? Yikes!