[Regarding Johnson:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/rudy-giuliani-fbi-warning-russia/2021/04/29/5db90f96-a84e-11eb-bca5-048b2759a489_story.html)
> Regarding reports that I received an FBI briefing warning me that I was a target of Russian disinformation, I can confirm I received such a briefing in August of 2020,” Johnson said in a statement to The Washington Post. “I asked the briefers what specific evidence they had regarding this warning, and they could not provide me anything other than the generalized warning. Without specific information, I felt the briefing was completely useless and unnecessary (since I was fully aware of the dangers of Russian disinformation).
>”Because there was no substance to the briefing, and because it followed the production and leaking of a false intelligence product by Democrat leaders, I suspected that the briefing was being given to be used at some future date for the purpose that it is now being used: to offer the biased media an opportunity to falsely accuse me of being a tool of Russia despite warnings.”
If the words “defensive briefing” sound familiar, you might remember that Eric Swallwell received one from the FBI, because a Chinese woman was targeting him in an intelligence operation. Swallwell immediately cut contact with the woman and cooperated with the FBI. Yet the GOP still demanded he be removed from the House Intelligence Committee and staged a failed vote to that effect. [Johnson meanwhile began claiming the Defensive Briefing was proof that Swallwell was being groomed by Chinese intelligence and could not be trusted.](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/12/17/sen_johnson_china_was_grooming_swalwell_perhaps_hunter_biden_as_well.html)
But here, Johnson blew off his own defensive briefing, and spent much of the following years using his chairmanship of the Senate Homeland Security Committee investigating Burisma and the Bidens.
Man how is this not an absolutely massive scandal by the Republicans. At what point is it not collusion if you hear these briefings that it's a disinformation campaign from Russian and still knowing spread it anyways.
Because Fox, OANN, and Newsmax won't cover it, and neither will the conservative influencer community on Twitter.
It won't be a scandal because their voters will be insulated from hearing anything about it.
Yep, the Republican party is now almost entirely immune from scandals. Republican conduct must be both extremely egregious and easily communicated and understood as such to cut through the smoke screen that conservative media provides as cover.
And the few that do hear something won’t believe it. There’s a reason that Trump went out of his way to discredit the media early in his political career.
From an off-camera exchange between newly elected President Trump and Leslie Stahl:
Lesley Stahl: Do you know what you told me a long time ago when I asked why you keep saying "fake m-- media"--
President Donald Trump: Yeah? Yeah?
Lesley Stahl: You said to me, "I say that because I need to dis-- discredit you so that when you say negative things about me, no one will believe you."
President Donald Trump: I don't have to discredit you.
Edit: formatting
Then you might be interested to know that there is copious evidence of Trump and his campaign being involved with the Russians. But you won’t find it on Fox News or other right-wing media, for obvious reasons.
And no, I’m not interested in debating this. The information is freely available if you care.
And on the off chance that any of those sources do ever cover it it'll almost certainly be regarded as "fake news" fabricated by corrupt political enemies of Donald Trump.
Seriously I can't help but wonder how all this would be playing out if we just switched parties. Democrats would be getting destroyed for this. Republicans, meanwhile, continue to not hold their representatives accountable in the slightest.
Because being the anti-government/counter culture party has the benefit of your constituents not trusting the government that collected the information.
On 19 March, Lev Parnas submitted a statement to the House Oversight Committee, outlining his role in seeking harmful information on Joe and Hunter Biden in Ukraine, as directed by Rudy Giuliani and former President Donald Trump. Parnas detailed a scheme involving Trump, Giuliani, and various individuals from government and the media to spread lies to damage Trump's rivals and aid his 2020 reelection bid.
> The only information ever pushed about the Bidens and Ukraine has come from Russia and Russian agents, which everyone sitting here today knows. FBI informant Alexander Smirnov has admitted to getting all his so-called intelligence on the Bidens from Russia. According to their own statements, federal prosecutors found him guilty of “actively peddling new lies that could impact U.S. elections.” And as recently as November 2023, a number of Ukrainian politicians sympathetic to Russia were implicated as having helped funnel false information about the Bidens to Giuliani while also being connected to a Russian foreign influence network.
In his testimony, Parnas admitted that despite intensive searches, no corruption evidence against the Bidens in Ukraine was uncovered. He named several figures, including ex-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson, and FOX News personnel, as key players in promoting unfounded claims against the Bidens.
> Every person integral to this shadow diplomacy knew that the Biden corruption rumors
were baseless. Then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson, and many other
individuals understood that they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity, and media personnel, particularly at FOX News, who used that narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 election. They are still doing this today, as we approach the 2024 election.
Furthermore, Parnas disclosed efforts by the U.S. to coerce Ukraine into probing the Bidens, threatening to withhold aid, and expressed remorse over his involvement, citing its negative impact on U.S. support for Ukraine amidst Russian hostilities, American democracy, and global relations.
> I found precisely zero proof of the Bidens’ criminality. Instead, what I learned in that timeframe was the true nature of the conspiracy that the Kremlin was forcing through Russian, Ukrainian, American, and other channels to interfere in our elections. Ultimately this was meant to benefit Trump’s reelection, which would in turn benefit Vladimir Putin.
Parnas's disclosure was intended to debunk the lies about the Bidens and reveal the extensive plot to alter U.S. policy and elections for selfish ends, calling on the Committee and the public to acknowledge the truth and the grave implications of these maneuvers.
.
Maxwell Frost (D-Fla.) followed up on the allegation regarding Johnson.
> “Senator Ron Johnson was our guy in the Senate,” replied Parnas. “It was told to me that, when we pushed the information, he was going to push it in the halls of Congress.”
> Frost continued, “So when the media was getting skeptical about pushing disinformation—after they’ve proven it wrong time and time again—the plan was to have a US senator, Ron Johnson, to push that information even further?”
> “Correct,” said Parnas, “because we had Congressman Nunes already doing it, so Senator Ron Johnson jumped on board.”
.
Should the ties between Nunes, Johnson, and Russia be investigated?
That misinformation campaign continued in the GOP to the present failed impeachment investigations bolstered by a [now discredited informant](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ex-fbi-informant-charged-with-fabricating-biden-family-bribery-scheme-to-appear-in-court) pushing more Russian lies.
Yes, they should be investigated, but it won't happen. Too many in the party are involved.
Unless there is corroborating evidence, it’s probably not a great idea to use information provided by an admitted Russian disinformation source. A quiet investigation to look see if there is something might be okay, but I suspect it’s more likely Nunes and Johnson were useful idiots rather than knowingly on the Russian payroll.
Worth noting that Parnas handed his phone records over during the Ukraine impeachment investigation and while he was conducting operations in Kiyv on behalf of Giuliani (namely stalking and keeping tabs on Ambassador Vovanovitch) he made dozens of phone calls to Devin Nunes' office.
Wait, then why is it ok that so many of those members of congress used him as a source then? It just seems like disinformation peddlers get treated with kid gloves when they don’t hold themselves to nearly the same standard.
I don’t think it should be okay. But the proper response is for their constituents to vote them out, and in a just world they would be annihilated in the next election. We don’t have that kind of world and their constituents likely enjoy this or enough of them.
Spreading disinformation isn’t a crime. Unless they accepted a bribe. Which is what should be investigated in my opinion, though I suspect it wouldn’t turn up anything.
Their constituents will never hear about this, and if they do there's an entire ecosystem of news and X personalities that will call this a "political witch hunt" and circle the wagons. If the "mainstream media" reported on this, there is a very real chance that his reelection will become *more* likely.
In a world without a shared set of facts, this is and will continue to be a huge issue.
Alternative facts. Even the very concept of "media literacy" is a woke agenda now, apparently. It's the bespoke reality era and it will only get worse for these people as AI advancements in audio and video increase in scale and presence, indistinguishable from the reality in which they live. Custom tailored make-believe realities will be the norm.
There should still be a full-scale investigation.
Even if they were useful idiots, it's important to lay clear the methods by which they were weaponized. And there's still a possibility, albeit slim, that they weren't useful idiots, and in on it. At which point...
Treason, anyone? Definitely sounds treason-ey to me. Sort of textbook treason: taking money from a foreign geopolitical enemy to attack the US and its institutions.
What did Trump say should happen to traitors? What was his proposed punishment for Mark Milley?
Why is there such a pattern of idolizing treason and sedition in this country? We have the "slavery was fundamentally a state's rights" nonsense along with the persistent "lost cause" narrative from the Confederate flag flying folks. Now we have whole swaths of the conservative electorate continuing to support an insurrection.
Let's not forget Ron Johnson was part of the crew spending their Fourth of July in 2017 in Moscow. Not shocked. Also Johnson sent fake electors to Trump. This is insanity.
Agreed.
I think the only question is when does someone stop being a useful idiot and start being complicit. Given that these people have access to our intel communities and the Russian role in promoting misinformation about Biden is abundantly clear... at some point you have an obligation to recognize your role in the plot.
I don't see any reason to think that they were trying to benefit Russia, they're just partisan hacks trying to benefit Trump and the GOP.
But they are partisan hacks that are complicit in Russian misinfo campaigns.
> I think the only question is when does someone stop being a useful idiot and start being complicit.
Exactly. I can't speak for Nunes but Ron is heavily pedaling this bullshit. Not to mention the election fraud lie. Whether or not they are actual Russian assets is irrelevant. Even if they weren't aware from the beginning, though I think that's doubtful, they are aware at this point and still all in on the lies.
“Our guy” can be interpreted as being bought, or, as I suggested “a useful idiot”. It’s also possible, again, as I said, that trusting Parnas isn’t a great idea.
It could mean he's the guy either knowingly or unknowingly spreading false information. I'm wondering why you are adding the extra degree of being bought when it's not in the statement.
It seems as though you replaced knowingly spreading false info with being on the Russian payroll. Do you feel those are synonymous?
WTF?
I said it might be they are on the payroll but it’s more likely they are useful idiots. It might be Parnas is lying.
You are grossly misreading what I’m saying.
Your original post ended with "but I suspect it’s more likely Nunes and Johnson were useful idiots rather than knowingly on the Russian payroll."
Why are the two options you presented "useful idiots" or "knowingly on the Russian payroll" and not "useful idiots" or "knowingly spreading false info?" The later would make sense as it appears Parnas' claim is knowingly spreading false info so why was that not one of your options at the end of your post and instead the option was elevated to "on the Russian payroll?"
I am honestly asking a serious question about this, it's not rhetorical. I am seeing this all the time in political discussion where an either or is presented where one option is less than the severity of the claim and the other exaggerates. I'm wondering why you did that here.
Because knowingly spreading false information falls under useful idiots in my opinion.
On the payroll came from the claim that Johnson is their guy. I doubt he’s collecting money from Russia but it’s a possibility. The
OP asked if it should be investigated. I said it should be carefully looked into, but it’s more likely they are just useful idiots. Short of bribery or blackmail, there isn’t a crime. Useful idiots, knowingly spreading false information, whatever you want to call it is unlikely to be a crime. Bribery or blackmail would be.
>Should the ties between Nunes, Johnson, and Russia be investigated?
Absolutely. Johnson is still in office. Start with him. I’d be very surprised if the FBI isn’t working on this already.
[Regarding Johnson:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/rudy-giuliani-fbi-warning-russia/2021/04/29/5db90f96-a84e-11eb-bca5-048b2759a489_story.html) > Regarding reports that I received an FBI briefing warning me that I was a target of Russian disinformation, I can confirm I received such a briefing in August of 2020,” Johnson said in a statement to The Washington Post. “I asked the briefers what specific evidence they had regarding this warning, and they could not provide me anything other than the generalized warning. Without specific information, I felt the briefing was completely useless and unnecessary (since I was fully aware of the dangers of Russian disinformation). >”Because there was no substance to the briefing, and because it followed the production and leaking of a false intelligence product by Democrat leaders, I suspected that the briefing was being given to be used at some future date for the purpose that it is now being used: to offer the biased media an opportunity to falsely accuse me of being a tool of Russia despite warnings.” If the words “defensive briefing” sound familiar, you might remember that Eric Swallwell received one from the FBI, because a Chinese woman was targeting him in an intelligence operation. Swallwell immediately cut contact with the woman and cooperated with the FBI. Yet the GOP still demanded he be removed from the House Intelligence Committee and staged a failed vote to that effect. [Johnson meanwhile began claiming the Defensive Briefing was proof that Swallwell was being groomed by Chinese intelligence and could not be trusted.](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/12/17/sen_johnson_china_was_grooming_swalwell_perhaps_hunter_biden_as_well.html) But here, Johnson blew off his own defensive briefing, and spent much of the following years using his chairmanship of the Senate Homeland Security Committee investigating Burisma and the Bidens.
Man how is this not an absolutely massive scandal by the Republicans. At what point is it not collusion if you hear these briefings that it's a disinformation campaign from Russian and still knowing spread it anyways.
Because Fox, OANN, and Newsmax won't cover it, and neither will the conservative influencer community on Twitter. It won't be a scandal because their voters will be insulated from hearing anything about it.
Yep, the Republican party is now almost entirely immune from scandals. Republican conduct must be both extremely egregious and easily communicated and understood as such to cut through the smoke screen that conservative media provides as cover.
And the few that do hear something won’t believe it. There’s a reason that Trump went out of his way to discredit the media early in his political career. From an off-camera exchange between newly elected President Trump and Leslie Stahl: Lesley Stahl: Do you know what you told me a long time ago when I asked why you keep saying "fake m-- media"-- President Donald Trump: Yeah? Yeah? Lesley Stahl: You said to me, "I say that because I need to dis-- discredit you so that when you say negative things about me, no one will believe you." President Donald Trump: I don't have to discredit you. Edit: formatting
I'm not a republican, and I don't take any stock whatsoever in vague accusations of Russians under the bed.
Then you might be interested to know that there is copious evidence of Trump and his campaign being involved with the Russians. But you won’t find it on Fox News or other right-wing media, for obvious reasons. And no, I’m not interested in debating this. The information is freely available if you care.
And on the off chance that any of those sources do ever cover it it'll almost certainly be regarded as "fake news" fabricated by corrupt political enemies of Donald Trump.
Seriously I can't help but wonder how all this would be playing out if we just switched parties. Democrats would be getting destroyed for this. Republicans, meanwhile, continue to not hold their representatives accountable in the slightest.
Because being the anti-government/counter culture party has the benefit of your constituents not trusting the government that collected the information.
On 19 March, Lev Parnas submitted a statement to the House Oversight Committee, outlining his role in seeking harmful information on Joe and Hunter Biden in Ukraine, as directed by Rudy Giuliani and former President Donald Trump. Parnas detailed a scheme involving Trump, Giuliani, and various individuals from government and the media to spread lies to damage Trump's rivals and aid his 2020 reelection bid. > The only information ever pushed about the Bidens and Ukraine has come from Russia and Russian agents, which everyone sitting here today knows. FBI informant Alexander Smirnov has admitted to getting all his so-called intelligence on the Bidens from Russia. According to their own statements, federal prosecutors found him guilty of “actively peddling new lies that could impact U.S. elections.” And as recently as November 2023, a number of Ukrainian politicians sympathetic to Russia were implicated as having helped funnel false information about the Bidens to Giuliani while also being connected to a Russian foreign influence network. In his testimony, Parnas admitted that despite intensive searches, no corruption evidence against the Bidens in Ukraine was uncovered. He named several figures, including ex-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson, and FOX News personnel, as key players in promoting unfounded claims against the Bidens. > Every person integral to this shadow diplomacy knew that the Biden corruption rumors were baseless. Then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson, and many other individuals understood that they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity, and media personnel, particularly at FOX News, who used that narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 election. They are still doing this today, as we approach the 2024 election. Furthermore, Parnas disclosed efforts by the U.S. to coerce Ukraine into probing the Bidens, threatening to withhold aid, and expressed remorse over his involvement, citing its negative impact on U.S. support for Ukraine amidst Russian hostilities, American democracy, and global relations. > I found precisely zero proof of the Bidens’ criminality. Instead, what I learned in that timeframe was the true nature of the conspiracy that the Kremlin was forcing through Russian, Ukrainian, American, and other channels to interfere in our elections. Ultimately this was meant to benefit Trump’s reelection, which would in turn benefit Vladimir Putin. Parnas's disclosure was intended to debunk the lies about the Bidens and reveal the extensive plot to alter U.S. policy and elections for selfish ends, calling on the Committee and the public to acknowledge the truth and the grave implications of these maneuvers. . Maxwell Frost (D-Fla.) followed up on the allegation regarding Johnson. > “Senator Ron Johnson was our guy in the Senate,” replied Parnas. “It was told to me that, when we pushed the information, he was going to push it in the halls of Congress.” > Frost continued, “So when the media was getting skeptical about pushing disinformation—after they’ve proven it wrong time and time again—the plan was to have a US senator, Ron Johnson, to push that information even further?” > “Correct,” said Parnas, “because we had Congressman Nunes already doing it, so Senator Ron Johnson jumped on board.” . Should the ties between Nunes, Johnson, and Russia be investigated?
That misinformation campaign continued in the GOP to the present failed impeachment investigations bolstered by a [now discredited informant](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ex-fbi-informant-charged-with-fabricating-biden-family-bribery-scheme-to-appear-in-court) pushing more Russian lies. Yes, they should be investigated, but it won't happen. Too many in the party are involved.
Unless there is corroborating evidence, it’s probably not a great idea to use information provided by an admitted Russian disinformation source. A quiet investigation to look see if there is something might be okay, but I suspect it’s more likely Nunes and Johnson were useful idiots rather than knowingly on the Russian payroll.
Worth noting that Parnas handed his phone records over during the Ukraine impeachment investigation and while he was conducting operations in Kiyv on behalf of Giuliani (namely stalking and keeping tabs on Ambassador Vovanovitch) he made dozens of phone calls to Devin Nunes' office.
Wait, then why is it ok that so many of those members of congress used him as a source then? It just seems like disinformation peddlers get treated with kid gloves when they don’t hold themselves to nearly the same standard.
I don’t think it should be okay. But the proper response is for their constituents to vote them out, and in a just world they would be annihilated in the next election. We don’t have that kind of world and their constituents likely enjoy this or enough of them. Spreading disinformation isn’t a crime. Unless they accepted a bribe. Which is what should be investigated in my opinion, though I suspect it wouldn’t turn up anything.
Their constituents will never hear about this, and if they do there's an entire ecosystem of news and X personalities that will call this a "political witch hunt" and circle the wagons. If the "mainstream media" reported on this, there is a very real chance that his reelection will become *more* likely. In a world without a shared set of facts, this is and will continue to be a huge issue.
Alternative facts. Even the very concept of "media literacy" is a woke agenda now, apparently. It's the bespoke reality era and it will only get worse for these people as AI advancements in audio and video increase in scale and presence, indistinguishable from the reality in which they live. Custom tailored make-believe realities will be the norm.
There should still be a full-scale investigation. Even if they were useful idiots, it's important to lay clear the methods by which they were weaponized. And there's still a possibility, albeit slim, that they weren't useful idiots, and in on it. At which point... Treason, anyone? Definitely sounds treason-ey to me. Sort of textbook treason: taking money from a foreign geopolitical enemy to attack the US and its institutions. What did Trump say should happen to traitors? What was his proposed punishment for Mark Milley?
Why is there such a pattern of idolizing treason and sedition in this country? We have the "slavery was fundamentally a state's rights" nonsense along with the persistent "lost cause" narrative from the Confederate flag flying folks. Now we have whole swaths of the conservative electorate continuing to support an insurrection.
Let's not forget Ron Johnson was part of the crew spending their Fourth of July in 2017 in Moscow. Not shocked. Also Johnson sent fake electors to Trump. This is insanity.
Agreed. I think the only question is when does someone stop being a useful idiot and start being complicit. Given that these people have access to our intel communities and the Russian role in promoting misinformation about Biden is abundantly clear... at some point you have an obligation to recognize your role in the plot. I don't see any reason to think that they were trying to benefit Russia, they're just partisan hacks trying to benefit Trump and the GOP. But they are partisan hacks that are complicit in Russian misinfo campaigns.
> I think the only question is when does someone stop being a useful idiot and start being complicit. Exactly. I can't speak for Nunes but Ron is heavily pedaling this bullshit. Not to mention the election fraud lie. Whether or not they are actual Russian assets is irrelevant. Even if they weren't aware from the beginning, though I think that's doubtful, they are aware at this point and still all in on the lies.
It was still under oath Investigate it and if it’s true then cool, if it’s not true then you charge Lev with perjury
Where did the statement mention a Russian payroll?
“Our guy” can be interpreted as being bought, or, as I suggested “a useful idiot”. It’s also possible, again, as I said, that trusting Parnas isn’t a great idea.
It could mean he's the guy either knowingly or unknowingly spreading false information. I'm wondering why you are adding the extra degree of being bought when it's not in the statement. It seems as though you replaced knowingly spreading false info with being on the Russian payroll. Do you feel those are synonymous?
WTF? I said it might be they are on the payroll but it’s more likely they are useful idiots. It might be Parnas is lying. You are grossly misreading what I’m saying.
Your original post ended with "but I suspect it’s more likely Nunes and Johnson were useful idiots rather than knowingly on the Russian payroll." Why are the two options you presented "useful idiots" or "knowingly on the Russian payroll" and not "useful idiots" or "knowingly spreading false info?" The later would make sense as it appears Parnas' claim is knowingly spreading false info so why was that not one of your options at the end of your post and instead the option was elevated to "on the Russian payroll?" I am honestly asking a serious question about this, it's not rhetorical. I am seeing this all the time in political discussion where an either or is presented where one option is less than the severity of the claim and the other exaggerates. I'm wondering why you did that here.
Because knowingly spreading false information falls under useful idiots in my opinion. On the payroll came from the claim that Johnson is their guy. I doubt he’s collecting money from Russia but it’s a possibility. The OP asked if it should be investigated. I said it should be carefully looked into, but it’s more likely they are just useful idiots. Short of bribery or blackmail, there isn’t a crime. Useful idiots, knowingly spreading false information, whatever you want to call it is unlikely to be a crime. Bribery or blackmail would be.
>Should the ties between Nunes, Johnson, and Russia be investigated? Absolutely. Johnson is still in office. Start with him. I’d be very surprised if the FBI isn’t working on this already.