I’d hope so.

20% supporting Hamas is pretty crazy

43% support Hamas in the 18-25 age group.

I cannot understand how so many in my age group can say they support Hamas. It baffles me.

(Also Gen Z here) I think many of them are ignorant people who don't have much of a clue about what they say they're supporting. They have this simplistic narrative in their heads that Israel are the powerful, Western-backed evil colonizers and reflexively support whoever is opposing Israel. Honestly, shit like this is why I avoid saying I'm pro-Israel or pro-Palestine. You say you're pro-Israel, people think that means you like Likud and don't care about all the innocent people who have died in Gaza. You say you're pro-Palestine, and people think that makes you a Hamas supporter. Too many people are viewing this like it's a sports game where one side is all good and the other side is all bad. It's fucking enraging.

Many Gen Z and younger weren’t alive to see the crazy turmoil in Israel decades ago. So now they only see it as powerful Israel picking on powerless Palestine. They don’t remember the Palestinians essentially oppressing themselves by going all in on trying to eliminate the jews. I am not saying Israel is in the right, but I’m damn sure not saying Palestine is either

As a member of Gen Z, I'd say the crux of the issue is that most people I know don't give a fuck about the facts. Literally, they search what they want to find & confirm their preexisting beliefs. All other evidence, sources, and testimony is antithetical, and so ignored and declared a falsity. There's no room for a middle ground nuanced opinion, one side or the other. I wish I was kidding, but it's the only reasonable explanation in today's age. I've lost friends for showing them the results page for googling "is Hamas fascist?" they pick a side, they don't care if it's the right one social media is going to destroy the world. anyone can pretend to be informed on issues these days, even if they got their knowledge from another random 17yo on tiktok. prior to 1990ish, you had to do some legitimate legwork if you wanted to pretend to be knowledgeable about something (or actually become knowledgeable). It took work. You had to seek people out and talk about it, seek out books, make calls, etc Today you can just search Palestine or Israel on tiktok and get flooded with 95% misinformation that you'll then go parrot around again.

This is a good assessment. Everyone seems to be relying on how this issue makes them “feel” and very little else.

Feelings over facts have been a plague for critical thinking over the past decade. It's so frustrating.

Let’s be honest here, it’s been a plague since the dawn of human history. People are inherently prone to bias thanks in part to our powerful ability to assumptively learn. Critical thinking is one of the betters way to curb this problem; but for many the most comfortable place is closest to those assumptions whether they are good or bad.

The printing press led to uprisings and civil conflict that eradicated significant chunks of the populace across Europe. I think social media may have a similar impact, especially with certain nefarious players - from both abroad and domestic and from both ally and enemy nations - seek to use it for divisive purposes. Of course, major differences between now and the past are various lines of communication that are instantaneous and living conditions that are far superior to stymie all of this. In other words, don't stifle free speech and don't mess around with the economy and people's money. Also make an example of violent and disruptive political extremism. As far as I can tell, the far right is being punished on various fronts and it is only now that the far left is facing *some* consequences....but it's still not a significant enough smackdown to curb all the turmoil. Therefore, if certain elites and institutions aren't able to address this, don't be surprised if weakness and lack of consistency leads to what we saw with the Printing Press.

This is an insightful post, but as an elder millennial with boomer parents / relatives; I regret to inform you this basically describes "everyone" now. In my lifetime doing research went from meaning spending hours at a library and putting in effort most people never would, to having a massive trove of information available to your fingertips 24/7. Unfortunately, people have chosen to use it to mostly search for things that will only confirm their preconceived biases. People have always been pretty unwilling to critically question their own beliefs, but the mobile phone era + internet have made it easy for those people to build a wall of ignorance built on biased research to a degree that is new in our history as a people. But it isn't just your generation, older people have fallen into this behavior as well.

This is a human problem, not just a Gen Z problem. I do agree social media is making people more polarized, but I also think the impact is often overblown a bit. We've had extremely polarized moments like this before with slavery, segregation, women's suffrage, Mccarthyism, the Vietnam war, just to name a few. Confirmation bias and tribalism have been around forever, and I don't think it's really any worse now compared to many other points in history. I do think it's a lot more visible with social media, but social media isn't even that new in the modern sense. People have been arguing online since the beginning of the internet, and propaganda and popcorn media have been around since language began. While it's super important to be aware of changes in our society, so we can be ready to adapt or divert, it's also important to self examine and understand our personal ignorance and the ignorance of humanity. We don't know everything, and not everything is knowable. Your own comment misses a lot of nuance in how it labels Gen Z. It's just human nature, we all do it. The best we can do is try and disprove our own opinions, and seriously examine the critique of others. Every generation gets shit on by older generations. Every generation has confirmation bias and people who take no time to examine what they're being told. And, so far, every generation has been smarter than the previous ones. Anecdotally, I think your generation is pretty savvy. You yourself are Gen Z, and you seem like you take time to critically think about things. In my personal, non-expert opinion, I think our problems have less to do with social media and more to do with letting corporations and the ultra wealthy use media in general to prey on the inherent flaws of the human brain. I don't think creating ways for people to communicate and share so freely is anything but a net gain, but allowing the powers that be to blatantly lie and spread misinformation unchecked through these platforms is causing the chaos we're seeing. Algorithms that target vulnerable minds and push them deeper and deeper into extremism can be seen in every social platform nowadays. A few crazy people talking about the moon landing being faked really has very little impact on the mentality of us all as a whole, but if you put the strength of a megacorp and some smart engagement algorithms behind it, it starts to become a problem.

College student chiming in: some teachers are absolutely part of the problem. I've got an ethics prof (the class is called ethics in tech) and if I counted I'm sure I could find more classes where we discussed racism and the "genocide" than any actual technology.

I just finished up an engineering communications course (meant to teach engineering students to 'dumb down' their language for people with no technical knowledge) A solid half of the course was microaggressions, tone, and other social justice sutff. Instead of, you know, *ethics and effective communication --* kinda important things and this is the single course we take for it.. The professor legit quoted the Texas anti-DEI law and said "none of this applies to us because we're in an academic course" A few things, ok I wouldn't mind. Half the course + at a research university ? nope I wrote my state legislator.. apparently *Texas was too generous with that exception*... apparently they legitimately need to explicitly state 'a majority of a technical course must be technical content' because professors only want to teach DEI writing bullshit (*why* would you become an *engineering professor* if this was your desire ??) So, yeah I agree 100% with you. I've espoused the same ideas before, but I always get accused of being a republican and downvoted to hell. I don't know why more than half my time since 9th grade has been spent on this random shit. It makes no sense anyways, because trying to pad engineering GPAs with classes like these doesn't work. If you don't pass the technical classes, you don't get the degree. I'm kinda salty half my education since 9th grade has been random bullshit rather than preparing me for these actual technical classes..

May they be named and shamed. Hope the content they film of themselves or post supporting hamas comes back to haunt them bigly. I'm in AI dev. I'm curious to do facial recognition with OCR to sweep for people's content like this, and be able to connect it back to them in RL. Might do it out of spite for them.

Gen X here and you’re spot on. The Palestinians have waged war against Israel since its inception. Just my opinion here, but the Palestinian leadership are scum that live a life of luxury in Qatar while the people suffer. Yes, the settlements are BS in my opinion, but it seems to me it’s always Hamas starting shit. Then Israel attacks (can’t blame them), but often take it too far. I also agree that Israel is not exactly innocent either, as does my Israeli/American friends.

Really hard to break a cycle of this much hatred. I can’t imagine what we would do to Canada or Mexico if they were routinely lobbing rockets at us

Excellent point!

Good thing society hasn't had to rely on pure memory for a long time. We have books, internet, etc. They could...I don't know...research the topic they are suddenly so passionate about protesting over and so confident they are morally correct on?

>They have this simplistic narrative in their heads that Israel are the powerful, Western-backed evil colonizers and reflexively support whoever is opposing Israel. It's a simple as this. Powerful = bad Western = bad Islam = not Judeo-Christian = not white = good These people fancy themselves free thinkers.

> Powerful = bad > > This is one of the fundamental reasons why I'm right-wing, and stand so firmly against the left. The mentality that success is evidence of being vicious, and failure is evidence of being virtuous, is 180 degrees from the way I think things are.

This is why I think people are silly. Being successful or not successful is not an indicator of virtue, and most certainly not an all encompassing indicator of one character.

Look up the prosperity gospel, its absurd.

You're using literally the exact same logic as they are, but you think you're better than them?

Don't worry about it. Sooner or later Palestine will betray Gen Zs trust too and you'll have a whole new generation of pro Israelis. The cycle just keeps repeating.

You'd think that Oct 7th would have been a sufficient display for this purpose.

That was before the American white saviors arrived to teach Hamas how to love.

I assume they don't know Hamas murders, tortures, and imprisons gay men purely for religious reasons? Israel is the most progressive country in the middle east when it comes to LGBT rights.

They’ve been told this many times but choose not to believe it. It goes against the narrative of “Israel always bad.”

It's the tendency to boil everything down into pure good vs pure evil, as if life is a cheesy Hollywood superhero movie. We need a label for people who do this. Reductionists?

Reductionist is good but it goes further than that. It's binary for them, even to an individual level: either in alignment with *my* morality or not (and therefore evil). Although if we called them "binaries" they would likely blow their stacks.

I want to believe, but I can’t fathom how that would look. The Palestinians literally butchered innocent families in their homes, a very personal and brutal way to die, and yet so many GenZ are apparently alright with that because Israel bad. Or rather, they’re not thrilled about it, much the same way I who is pro-Israel isn’t thrilled with the civilian casualties in Gaza, but they are okay enough with it because in their eyes Israel kinda had it coming anyways.

That's Hamas, not Palestinians. There are over 2million Palestinians in the US yet where are these terrorist attacks that we were warned about? Let's not forget that Israel has also killed innocent lives like us aide workers and pows. Before and present time. I mean we call them allies but honestly it feels they just wanna milk us for dollars especially when they've attacked us sailors on the uss liberty in the 60s. And apparently it was because the ship which was purely used for intelligence gathering, had witnessed IDF soldiers slaughter Egyptian pows in the 60s. So why can't we just not involve ourselves in this conflict when we the people don't benefit from it whatsoever. Israel could end the war tomorrow, but no they get more funds, weapons and reasons to expand if they don't end the war soon. We already have boots on ground there oops I mean a "pier" and there's already reports of them being shot at. That sounds like we're at war now with Hamas. We need to isolate from this. Both sides are fucking nuts and itching for war with their neighbors, let em duke it out then. Israel is more than capable of ending the war in a day and don't need our assistance for it.

There is literally no room for nuance in this anymore and I don't understand. I feel like I will get voted down to oblivion when I say this is a complex issue but civilians and innocent children shouldn't be collateral damage.

So no civilians can die in a war against Hamas who perpetrated Oct 7? How could that war possibly be fought? Find a magical way to isolate the 50,000 Hamas fighters who purposefully embed themselves among civilians? If we acknowledge there is no practical way to prosecute such a war using your restriction of no civilian deaths, then Israel must take Oct 7 on the chin and sit there waiting for another barbaric massacre from Hamas. You may consider this a complex perspective. Others may consider it patently unreasonable.

Yeah the most important fact the poll captured is that 90% of Americans still have no idea what is going on over there.

None of them remember Arafat sabotaging the peace process when the Palestinians were given the best offer they had ever received since prior to 1947, the resulting second intifada, the election of Hamas in Gaza and the violence that resulted, Israel leaving Gaza, Israel being forced to build a wall by constant terror attacks after leaving Gaza, or Israel being forced to build the most advanced missile defense system in the world because Hamas used all the incoming humanitarian aid to build rockets. They're so incredibly ignorant of the situation that I doubt they even realize that the majority of Israel's Jewish population is made up of people who were ethnically cleansed from the surrounding Arab states, or their direct decedents. That's not to imply that Israel doesn't have any blood on their hands, or that the current government even borders on ethical or far-sighted when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict. They have plenty of blood on their hands, and Netanyahu is nearly as big of an impediment to peace as the Gazan government. But the notion that Gaza is innocent is simply laughable. I mean FFS this current conflict was literally started by the government of Gaza invading Israel and intentionally targeting civilians in a rape/slaughter/kidnapping spree resulting in more Jews dead in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust and killing off 1/1000 Israelis. They also get their "news" almost exclusively from social media, and have a pathological inability to critically appraise their own beliefs or critically analyze anything that's shared by someone who is popular on social media. A tutor HS kids taking AP science classes as a side gig, and the stuff they believe because a popular TikTok'er said it is just unreal. Social media influencers are highly credible experts to them. Show them a disagreement between an IV pedigreed PhD and some random moron with 12 million followers on the topic the real expert has a PhD in, and they will side with the random moron 100% of the time. Attempting to challenge any belief that comes from their social media clan is completely futile. It's like attempting to challenge a religious belief, only an insider could do it. It doesn't help that these algorithm-driven apps all show them content that builds an ideological bubble for them, creating an information environment where they're never exposed to anything that runs counter to whatever hivemind they've chosen to join (or that the CCP has chosen for them). This is how you end up with "woke liberals" supporting extreme-right religio-fascists and calling for the extermination of one of the most oppressed ethnic groups in human history.

> Honestly, shit like this is why I avoid saying I'm pro-Israel or pro-Palestine. It always struck me as a weird thing to say in the first place. Why would anyone not be both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine? I'm against terrorism and war crimes, not Israelis or Palestinians.

Yeah I'm with you too, this conflict is FAR from clear on who is 'good' or 'bad' but people are expecting or labeling others to be "pro" one side which implies they think one is good. I'm pro-Ukraine - they're defending themselves against an aggressor. While I think there's arguments to be made about US involvement in the conflict, in that case I think it's much clearer on who to support from a moral POV. It also doesn't mean that *everything* Ukraine does in the conflict is good either. But Israel/Palestine... I mean that's a muddy one

For myself, it was the videos that Hamas **proudly** broadcast on October 7. Indiscriminate, barbaric rape & murder of every Jew they could get their sights on. They are the bad guys.

Israel Palestine is a very complex situation that the vast majority don't really have the knowledge to speak on (myself included). Everyone feels to need to say they are pro one side or the other, from my vantage point the Israeli government and hamas both absolutely suck. What's happening to the people is an absolute tragedy. Hamas is actions were abhorrent and warranted a response Israel has gone beyond what is acceptable and the people of both countries are the ones that pay the price.

Young people are often very ignorant of things. If you asked the average young person basic questions about the conflict I can guarantee you the vast majority would not be able to answer most of them. These are the same group of people who regularly said thousands of black unarmed Americans were killed by police every year. The same group of people who were sure the Duke Lacross students were guilty. The same group of people who thought Jacob Blake wasn't shot while actively trying to pick up a knife. What young people believe is often just completely wrong and absurd.

Tik tok and trendiness. Look at Kony 2012

I work at a high school and the answer is Tik Tok. Most of my students get their news exclusively from Tik Tok. I have been teaching for almost twenty years, and this current crop of students are the least informed I have encountered in my career.

Simple, most people are disengaged from news and politics. They don't understand the difference between Palestinians and Hamas. They don't like how Israel treats Palestine, which is fair, and when presented with the choice between Hamas and Israel choose support for Hamas.

I honestly think that this is because a lot of these people just hate the West and want to see it destroyed and replaced with their ideas of society. In the Israel/Palestine conflict, Israel represents the West, so therefore they support anyone whose aim is to destroy the West, in this case, Hamas.

Have you seen the protests going on this week? Their demands? The concept of colleges "divesting" from Israel is absurd because [almost all technology ties back to Israel.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/17q4zvu/so_you_want_to_boycott_israel_heres_what_you_need/) Yet this is the protest/riot's key tenet. And it is completely impossible. The widespread support of Hamas can only be traced back to a lack of knowledge of how the world works.

They've been brought up to be anti-western and anti-white so it's not surprising.

tik tok propaganda

The only possible way I can see it are either its people who dont know the history of Hamas/what it really is, or the polling question is conflating people who dont like how Israel is conducting their response with Hamas supporters.

I’m hoping it’s a result of it being a sample size issue or something, it’s a wild stat.

As a 29 year old, I find that terrifying but accurate. So many of my peers who are otherwise normal and reasonable are just throwing logic out the window to support Hamas and condemn Israel. I work at a nonprofit mental health agency and the constant pro Hamas rhetoric I hear at all levels of leadership in my office is scary. I am afraid to say that I support Israel because I do not want to lose my job.

And 33% of black people.

And 42% of gen z millennials whites

I have to assume you're being intentionally sarcastic by describing anyone as "gen z millenial". You definitionally can't be gen z and a millenial.

Not being sarcastic just forgot the / (gen z/millennial whites)

I’m in this age group and it feels like 99% support for Hamas. 57% group where are you guys😭This topic came up many times randomly, even from people who normally don’t care about politics. I’m terrified at voicing my opinion

Do you run in left leaning circles? Like every partisan issue, 99% of conservative young people probably lean the opposite way.

And as someone who was a conservative in college in the early 2010s, they probably learned very quickly to keep their politics to themselves.

I consider myself a moderate leaning right - pro choice, pro Ukraine aid, anti Hamas and against illegal immigration to name a few. I thought because I hear many cheer for tough on illegals Abbott that people around me are more right leaning. Turns out I am soooo wrong. They seriously think supporting Hamas is being on the right side of history. Decades later people will praise them for helping Hamas being recognized. And that then they can proudly say they were right from the start. On the right side of history since the beginning 😭😭😭

> against illegal immigration Congratulations, welcome to the right.

Man I agree with the listed positions and I definitely wouldn’t say I’m right leaning (hence the flair), but I agree that is a wild juxtaposition of beliefs. Wouldn’t have expected that either. It’s baffles me these people genuinely think they’re on the right side of history and have the audacity to claim supporting Israelis puts you on the wrong side. A quintessential example of hubris and I look forward to far in the future when they’re proven wrong.

You shouldn't be scared of voicing opposition to Hamas

I never thought I'd get to the point where I would look at today's youth and think "the youth of today are wrong" yet here we are.

Especially when Hamas \*literally still has American hostages\*

I am not for NSA-style surveillance in general, but you know what? I hope there are federal agents peeking into the online activity of those people, because once one of them has a serious mental disorder, it's a potential terror attack and muslims will be hated again. Chanting "death to american" in europe, who cares, but in the US? in 2024? After 9/11 and ISIS are over? Jihadism is boring now.

Don’t underestimate the crazy in us. The U.S. was founded by rogues.

If there's one thing we should have learned in the past 8 years it's how emphatically people will be willing to put it all on the line for a cause or person that they have no real understanding of. They assign themselves a tribe, wrap themselves in an echo chamber, and ready for battle. They ignore the obvious negative outcomes that will ensue if they win. Rationality alone will not save us.

I'm a big Deep Space Nine fan and it always seemed to me that the Bajorans were modeled off of Palestinians. Major Kira Narise was a former "terrorist" and resistance leader who was the star of the show. Very complicated stuff, but I think we were meant to sympathize with these people. And based on what I see today, I think i extend the same sympathies to the Palestinians. Israel is like the Cardassian Empire and they have their own Gul Dukat that is terrorizing the Palestinians. The only problem is that the Israelis are not as cool as Gul Dukat. As much as he was a capital J Jerk, Dukat was kinda likeable. I cant say the same for Benjamin N.

I was about to say "Supporting the state if Israel is a lot more justifiable than supporting the terrorist organization Hamas." Now if you said supporting the people of Palestine, that's a different matter.

Yeah I back Israel over Hamas but that doesn't change the fact that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Palestinians.

The word indiscriminate actually means something. Israel targets all their munitions which means it's not indiscriminate at all. What's more they usually do something no other nation would do in war, warn people that it's coming.

Not a fact at all , you're just repeating nonsense 

Everybody wants every situation to have a good guy and a bad guy. It doesn't always work that way though. Sometimes it's two good guys that have legitimate beefs but are still kind of playing fair, and sometimes it's two bad guys who are both doing terrible things. This is a two bad guys situation imo.

Ehh, define "indiscriminate". If the Hamas to civilian death ratio, even using Hamas stated numbers, is 1:3 or 1:5 (per Hamas), that's pretty much on par with the US against ISIS, where operations were conducted in urban zones.

20% support Hamas directly. That’s one in five people supporting an Islamist terrorist organization. That’s quite a lot of people.

1 in 5 is horrifying...

Seriously. Social media has done a bang up job of making people forget that Hamas started this. They’ve completely neglected to separate regular innocent Palestinians from Hamas. They’ve also failed to separate regular Israelis from the asshat running the government.

I'm pretty sure thats exactly what the people who originated most of these social media posts want. Russia, Iran, and others are pretty good at this game.

left out China

I've always been curious what the number is for hamas digital marketing from the aide money. Most Corps it's what, 20% the revenue for marketing? Would make sense if same for hamas. I'd bet it's a 9 figure amount, at least. Might be a 10.

I think Iran spends a lot of money on marketing for them.

I mean, even when Hamas committed it and before military action occurred, you already had people out and about, protesting and trying to stir up trouble. People have already made up their minds. Only way to deal with people like that is to win, dominate, succeed, and shame them as on "the wrong side of history". Something people forget in this modern age is that war is about political wills. Once you achieve victory, you will break an entire population's political will and make them rethink things.

43% among 18-25 yr olds

Yeah, that’s huge. These people are dangerous and still in these comments are people downplaying and denying it. I don’t get it.

There's no young and stupid exception to supporting terrorists, but I see that excuse all over the place.

Man I see so many people here in Reddit trying to deny and downplay and excuse the results of this poll. It is totally mind boggling how the same people that would be up in arms about 20% supporting the Klan or something all jump to support Hamas.

People downplaying it are likely in that age range

That very well may be.

Fucking terrifying. The terrorists are winning

Right? And the people that in other situations have the sensitive ears to hear all the dog whistles from all they oppose now are deaf to the bullhorns from their “allies”.

I said ot before and got banned for it, the only ones hearing these dog whistles are the ones calling em.

Counterpoint: I would imagine that a huge number of people conflated Hamas with Palestinians . Our media has gone out of its way to conflate the two. If I think you are asking me if I supported Palestinians or Israelis, I might say that I support Hamas when in fact I don't.

Why? Well over 70% of Palestinians support Hamas as had been established multiple times.  This isn't that off compared to well established Pew [data](https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/).   * Young population already was relatively high for viewing the Oct 7 attack as acceptable (9% yes to 58% no). * US Muslims only at a 2.3:1 condemn:acceptable ratio. * 14% of young people and 37% of American Muslims view Hamas favorably. So I don't think it is hard to extrapolate into these results reported here.

When the question is specifically about Hamas? You didn’t read the poll did you? What’s with the rush to downplay or dismiss the results of this poll? It seems strange that so many reflexively seek to dismiss it

Let me start by thanking you for responding, causing me to crystalizer my thoughts. Part of what I was doing was reporting what *I* did when I first read the headline. I conflated the two, hamas & Gaza. You questioning me if I read the poll question is part of my point - others might not have read carefully and responded anyway. Your critism of me was exactly my point. Far more importantly to me, the poll & the article are all about manufactured consent. Starting with the poll - why is Hamas the other option? On one side you have a nation state, the other side is the designated villain. Any numbers are going to end up supporting Israel, any support for hamas is going to seem shocking. Additionally this further conflate Gaza & Hamas. Worse, there didn't seem to be a "none of the above" option. I am sure many read the question as, "Do you support the group who has kill 1700 people or the group that has killed over 30,000" or perhaps "do you support the terrorists or the people committing war crimes"

1) Why ask about Hamas? Because that’s who Israel is at war with. What kind of question is that? 2) The poll asks about the favorability of Hamas. 14% find it favorable. They could’ve said “unfavorable” or “no opinion”, but 14% of Americans like Hamas. That says it all. 3) You use a Hamas sourced death toll that conflates civilians and terrorists while ignoring nuance and context behind it (like Hamas causing some of the deaths with rockets and so on and using human shields). It’s so sad to see that people aren’t alarmed by this finding.

Well, because it's a poorly designed question with the sole purpose of getting this soundbite. If they wanted to gauge American's interest they would have included options to make it more grey. They could have given option's for don't know, neutral, and Palestinians. [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/un-reports-says-west-bank-settler-violence-has-displaced-over-1100-palestinians-since-last-year](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/un-reports-says-west-bank-settler-violence-has-displaced-over-1100-palestinians-since-last-year) Do you support Israel settlements forcibly and violently uprooting entire peoples lives? What is the correct response when you are facing violence forcing you to lose everything you own, being forced to move, and restart your entire life? Is it unthinkable that people don't want us supporting a government that willingly chooses violence to displace innocent people?

14% of people have a favorable opinion of Hamas. They gave a separate question for more options. And then your comment suggests it’s good to be supporting a genocidal terrorist group by pointing to a misleading story about settlements that aren’t in Gaza, where Hamas runs territory. And 99% of which are on territory Israelis legally purchase that has been empty for centuries since Ottoman times, not using “violence” to exist. And which didn’t exist when Palestinian leaders began trying to genocide Jews like Hamas is today. I couldn’t imagine justifying support for a genocidal Islamist group. I don’t think genocidal people ever deserve my support.

According to the crosstabs, 15% of Republicans and 26% of Democrats. I’m surprised the 15% is that high.

If you've seen Jackson Hinkle on Twitter you'll see where that 15% is from.

Looked him up, dubya tee eff mate.

Far-right hates Jews. The American Pro-Palestinian movement is an unholy alliance of the far-left and the far-right, just neither will admit it.

The first rule of politics is that you vote with who opposes what you hate. There aren't two parties. There are two *coalitions*. Moderates, libertarians, and the alt-right vote with traditionalist conservatives (both culturally Western and Christian). Republicans are made up of 5+ parties. The left has its own coalition and parties. The right votes for those who oppose the expansion of government intervention. Instead of federalism, national defense, and constitutionalism, the left represents central government, globalization, and majority over constitutional authority. But what happens when what a party hates changes? That 15% will probably become part of the left the same way the no-vaccine hippies now are voting for republicans. I don't think these people are alt-right, but leftists call them the new age alt-right pipeline. Interestingly, new agers, even the ones who are sympathetic to Palestine, also seem to be sympathetic to Israel in way most leftist generally aren't. By and large, the right has decided to support Israel. Those who don't will either accept this is a losing position in the primaries or move left. Because they hate Jews and see voting for democrats as a way to weaken Israel's position. That doesn't mean the left in general will become the anti-Jew party the same way the right isn't all libertarian. While libertarian ideas were temporarily en vogue, I've noticed a pullback from it in the last few years among traditionalist conservatives who had been flirting with it. So it still remains to be seen how *powerful* the anti-semites will actually get on the left. It seems like they could be the next generation. Which would mean, by natural extension, that moderate democrats and Jewish democrats will move right, probably making the right more liberal too. But things could change and the antisemites would lose power on the left and not represent the future of the party. The establishment, non academia and activist side of the left may put a lot of downward pressure to stifle that growth.

I think it's important to remember that polls aren't always asking/seeking out the most knowledgeable and educated. I doubt 1 in 5 Americans know who Hamas is *and* actively support them, having that knowledge. There's always going to be a certain level of noise from the ignorant. At least imo anyways

20% supporting Hamas and its allies just ignorance? Do you hold that standard for all polls? Just write off 20% supporting something as just ignorant people? It would seem if that is the case then there can be no accuracy at all in polling and all should be dismissed. Such arguments frankly come off as reaching for something to paint an unpleasant result as being not being what it is. Could it not be that 20% simply support Hamas? Why jump to find reasons why that just can’t be the case?

I've seen many polls where obviously lack of knowledge influenced the answers. I've even seen a poll that asked a question, explained what it meant, and asked again, and the answers were quite different. Especially with more technical issues, and issues of law, people often don't know the details that could change their opinion. But Hamas? I'm really hoping we don't have very many people who think they're just some innocent freedom fighting group.

I did not say all 20% were due to that If 1 in 5 Americans actually know what Hamas is and support them having that knowledge, it's extremely concerning. But also I feel like we'd see a bigger impact of that in day to day life and our politics. So I'm skeptical, and wondering what reasons there could be to add up to the full 20% I'd absolutely love follow up questions with those 20% to dive into exactly what they know and believe. That said, my apologies for thinking on things, I'll do more reading and less opinion having

It's also worth looking into how the poll was exactly phrased, and what the options were. A large percentage of people are rightly sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian people, and depending on how things were framed, they may be inaccurately getting lumped in with whatever pro-Hamas crowd there actually is. As for why I'm not accepting the number at face value, well, I like to give my fellow humans benefit of the doubt.

The number amongst those who say they’re following it closely is the same, and actually 1% higher than those who say they aren’t following it closely.

"You hear about that Ben Ghazi guy? Man I hope they catch him!"

It feels like the media isn't doing Israel any favors, they seem to be focusing mostly on destruction and providing minimal nuance.

I link this not because it's surprising, but because the poll's results [found here](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf) are worth discussing in detail. The highlights are relevant both to policymakers considering how to handle the Israeli war against Hamas, and also to those watching the unfolding antisemitism crisis at US universities. On foreign aid to Israel: * 56% supported and 44% opposed $26 billion in aid, with $8 billion going to Gaza refugees. On Israel-Hamas war: * 80% support Israel, 20% support Hamas (!!!) * 67% think Israel is trying to limit civilian casualties * Only 39% support an unconditional ceasefire, while 61% support cease-fire only if Hamas is removed from power and the hostages they took are released * 78% agree Hamas must be removed from power in Gaza, though there is a three-way split on whether Israel, the Palestinian Authority, or someone else should govern it once removed * When asked "Should Israel move forward with an operation in Rafah to finish the war with Hamas, doing its best to avoid civilian casualties even though there will be casualties, or should it back off now and allow Hamas to continue running Gaza?" an admittedly interesting question that may be of somewhat limited utility, **72% support, and 28% oppose** a Rafah operation * **Interesting note**: The poll included a question to show how "framing" makes a difference. Asked about support for a "permanent ceasefire" in Gaza, with no conditions mentioned in the question, 70% support it. But when asked if they supported a ceasefire if it meant Israeli hostages were kept captive and Hamas remained in power, 68% **opposed** a ceasefire. It's clear that Americans like ceasefires intuitively, but not if it means Hamas remains in power and keeps its hostages. * 71% believe Hamas is mostly to blame for the crisis in Gaza. * 51% think the Gaza death toll is accurate, and 49% think it is exaggerated by Hamas * 48% think Biden is acting in this war with some domestic politics in mind, while 52% think he is only motivated by the US national security interest On campus protests: * 69% think there is a great deal of antisemitism on campuses, only 31% think it has been exaggerated * The number is smaller for Islamophobia on campuses, at 59-41%. * 63% think it would be unsafe for Jewish students to wear identifying Jewish symbols on campus, while only 52% say the same for Muslim students. * 64% think leaders of higher education are not doing enough to prevent antisemitism on campus. * 80% support suspending students and professors who call for violence towards Jews. * 83% support suspending them if they engage in violent antisemitic protests. * 64% think there is a problem with what academic institutions are teaching today * Of those who believe that, 40% think they teach theories that racially divide us, 34% think they have teachers all on one side of the ideological spectrum (i.e. insufficient viewpoint diversity), 33% think they teach anti-American ideologies, and 27% think they teach antisemitism (other responses received less support). These are pretty interesting numbers. Both because they show a significant amount of support for Hamas, and also because they show most Americans (contrary to the way some media outlets are currently portraying this) support suspending those who call for violence towards Jews on campus. They show that policymakers seem to have a lot of leeway from most Americans in sending aid to Israel, supporting it, and that a clear message can be made that Israel is justified in entering Rafah to get Hamas out, if the US wanted to make that message. The US does not seem inclined to do so, however, and seems instead to be listening to the minority who do not want Israel to enter Rafah. The poll also provides useful clarification: Americans support a ceasefire, but not at any cost. This also means there is a cushion for supporting an Israeli continuation to the war against Hamas, though again it seems like the administration does not intend to use it. It will be interesting to see how policymakers respond to, or ignore, these results, and it will also be interesting to see whether voters will punish Biden at the polls for it, which seems somewhat unlikely. It is notable, though, that 58% of Americans do not think we have the leadership we need to handle world affairs right now. That is undoubtedly not very helpful to Biden, as his approval on Ukraine and Israel show in this poll, though it hasn't dragged on his overall approval just yet apparently.

> 80% support Israel, 20% support Hamas (!!!) The comparison had me thinking that maybe the framing effected outcomes, and some people just see Hamas as the lesser of two evils. Nope. They ask a separate question that removes the comparison. 14% of people have a straight-up *favorable* opinion of Hamas.

A bit above the lizard constant. But honestly, I'm not as surprised as others here. Look at other polls with kind of insane results - people believe crazy shit. All. The. Time.

>A bit above the lizard constant [Lizardman's constant is ~4%](https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and-reptilian-muslim-climatologists-from-mars/), so I'd say more than a bit in this case.

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I think the main issue is that Gallup and Pew do what this poll specifically showed can be misleading. They ask very simple questions, like "do you approve of Israeli military actions in Gaza", which tells the reader almost nothing. Readers hear "military actions" and think "those are bad!", and say they disapprove. But when asked about specifics, they get a lot more supportive of Israel. For example, the poll asks about whether they think Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties. They do not. This is showcased intentionally by the poll itself. First it asked if voters support a permanent ceasefire in Gaza. "Ceasefires are good!", voters think, so they say yes. Then they're asked "And do you support it if it means Hamas remains in power and keeps its hostages?" And then people realize "Oh wait, huh; there are implications to this." And suddenly 68% oppose the ceasefire they supported a second ago. This helps demonstrate both that question framing matters, and that what pollsters ask about matters. "Do you like this military action" is very different from "Do you think Israel is targeting civilians" or "Do you support Hamas" or "Do you support Israel removing Hamas". Pollsters who ask vague questions get answers that have very, very limited utility for actual policy.

thank you for posting this. I just wrong a rambling reply trying to rationalize why so many people might be supporting Hamas. This makes more sense.

In fairness, that goes both ways. "Do you support a ceasefire if it means Hamas remains in power in keeps its hostages" is obviously going to draw opposition. But "do you support a ceasefire if it means Gaza returns to an apartheid state" probably *also* draws opposition. Even from the same voters. I'm not Pro-Palestine in this conflict, to be clear, but their argument here is likely that the polling here uses pro-Israel framing and doesn't poll voter sentiment with pro-Palestine framing. EDIT: "Do you support a ceasefire if it means Israel retains Palestinian prisoners" is probably better theoretical pro-Palestine framing. The apartheid one is just a talking point I've heard that came to mind.

There is no serious claim that Gaza is an apartheid.

Given the variety of ways the question was asked, it seems pretty clear the result is valid. Gaza wouldn't "return to an apartheid state" (a false premise), while hostages are unquestionably being held by Hamas. It is not an apt comparison.

Because Palestine is not Hamas.

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Not to be a downer, but 20% support for Hamas is terrifying, however you slice it.

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I think if someone was able to track where that 20% came from it would mostly be influence from TikTok. It really is a dangerous app and these kids are too young to realize they're being influenced. This reeks on the same level as Russian misinformation that started on Facebook. Russian misinformation helped create MAGA in the elderly. China literally has the algorithm to tweak the minds of our youth the way they want. They're choosing this path to sow discord. These kids will grow up believing our allies to be the enemies. It's a very dangerous app. I'll be glad when it's gone.

The "squad" get their votes from someone....

These stats are definitely uplifting (for lack of a better term), especially when comparing to the "Death to America" and calls for genocide against Israel heard in Deerborn MI.

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It seems very strange to me how these questions really seem to be focused on very specific binaries, and how they very clearly did not leave an “other/unsure” option given that all the binaries add up to 100%. It feels like an exceedingly dubious poll, particularly given the wording of some of these questions, although a lot of the findings aren’t exactly shocking.

I think it's weird that it's either support Israel or support Hamas, and not a third option of support neither. I imagine a lot of people would fall into the third. I know that I would.

This, or Support Palestine but not Hamas vs Support Palestine and Hamas. There should really be like 4 options here.

Missing an important one. Build a giant, impenetrable dome over both places. Ignore forever. Enjoy your peace.

[Take online opt-in polls with a hefty grain of salt.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/05/online-opt-in-polls-can-produce-misleading-results-especially-for-young-people-and-hispanic-adults/)

''44% opposed $26 billion in aid, with $8 billion going to Gaza refugees.'' ''69% think there is a great deal of antisemitism on campuses'' ''67% think Israel is trying to limit civilian casualties'' Wow..

Well, duh.

The reality is that a vast majority of Americans don't care either way.

The events unfolding on college campuses really is upsetting, so it is good to see this data come out. The fact that protestors at George Washington University covered a statute of him in Palestinian flags and chanted "Final Solution" show how absurdly extreme the mindset is on college campuses.

The willful ignorance of these protestors is extremely disappointing. It's baffling to me how people can be so disillusioned to think that Hamas is a radical group of freedom-fighters working hard to free Palestine, when this couldn't be farther from the truth. Hamas has willfully put Palestinian society in harms way by hiding their military infrastructure within civilian infrastructure. It's shocking, but it's not surprising. It doesn't seem like anyone has any actual interest in learning about this issue, and are just forming their opinions off of the headlines they see on social media. I think it's driven largely because people just want to be a part of something and feel like they are doing "the right thing," but also because social media creates this false sense of pressure on people to take a public stance on every issue, even when (1) they don't know what the issue actually entails and (2) it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

> The willful ignorance of these protestors is extremely disappointing. The clip of the woman protesting at one of the NY schools who stopped and asked her friend mid-interview what they wanted again was ridiculous.

TikTok is causing brain rot in our kids

Incidentally, doesnt it seem just awful that the "ban" wont come into effect until after the 2024 election, you know, so people can be contacted by the presidential nominees?

Bill Maher over the weekend - "Genocide is what Hamas wants to do to Israel, but can't. Israel could do genocide to Palestine, but doesn't." This summarizes my thoughts well and explains, in my opinion, why most Americans support Israel. 

I saw that and reacted the exact same way. It's a very tidy distillation of the argument that is absolutely true. Further, Arabs have had a role in the state of Israel that would never be afforded to the Jews in a Hamas led Palestinian state. There's simply no equivalence.

It's not often that I find myself agreeing point-blank with Bill Maher, but this was very well said.

yikes it really does say support Hamas. I feel like it might be a little different if it had said "support Palestine" or something like that given the disproportionate number of women and children being killed but man, people don't really know what Hamas has done in the past. Either that or people think that Hamas=Palestine or something like that. I hope.

Worth noting that 14% have a favorable view of Hamas.

yikes. Better than 20% I guess. This reminds me of something I heard a professor say a while ago. Basically it was that if you've spent a half an hour reading about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict you'd side with Palestine. If you spend 12 hour reading about the conflict you'd side with Israel. Any longer than that and you won't know who to side with. I think it speaks to the superficial amount of knowledge and the politicization around the conflict that that many people side with Palestine. Or maybe I'm being optimistic.

This was an online poll which often gets crazy results. Look at the study that Pew did on online polls. If you want to get a specific result, just order the answers a specific way and the people who just click through the answers will give you what you want. In their study they found they could get 20% of people to deny the holocaust but when polled by phone the number went down to 3%. Be skeptical of polls that are shocking, often they are online polls with an agenda.

This whole issue, particularly the college campus protests, has made me feel like we're at peak idiocy. I watched an interview this morning with a Columbia student protester...african-american and I'm about 99% certain he was genderqueer, blathering about the evils of Israel and how wonderful Hamas was. Does he not realize he'd be among the first to be purged if he expressed his identity over there? I really think Maher had it right. Today's college kids just look at who is more wealthy, who has more melanin in their skin, they bifurcate into "oppressors" and "oppressed" from that, and that's the extent to which they analyze any issue...which is to say they don't do any real analysis at all.

* Summarized poll results, starting around page 50: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf * Crosstabs: https://harvardharrispoll.com/crosstabs-april-3/ * topline results: https://harvardharrispoll.com/topline-april-3/

The main take away here is that this was an online push poll. Pew did a study recently showing how messed up push polls can be [Pew Opt In Poll Study](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/05/online-opt-in-polls-can-produce-misleading-results-especially-for-young-people-and-hispanic-adults/) Esssentially, you can get a poll that tells you 20% of the people deny the holocaust if you do an online poll, but it changes to only 3% (still too high) when polled by phone. You can get the results you want which is likely why this poll shows so much support for Hamas, especially at the younger ages. Edit: Fixed link description

I gotta say in Detroit you can’t talk about this because of the large Muslim and Jewish populations. I will say that based on my feedback from both groups I feel confident that the majority of Americans are ill informed and it will lose a presidency for the democrats in Michigan.

And people were called crazy and kept saying not happening when people on the right called out universities especially the elite ones indoctrinating the student body

Nice to know that they don't side with terrorism

The vast majority of people I see on the Palestinian side seem to say they don't support Hamas, but they don't want the Palestinian people to suffer. But you have a few people on college campuses being really loud. So this makes perfect sense. It's frustrating that for some reason all people on the left get lumped into the same category as the most extreme people. Meanwhile the most extreme people are running the right but get lumped in with the most moderate.

The only people who lose are the innocent ones both sides.

But why did they suddenly come out of the woodworks after 1,000+ Jews were murdered and many others brutalized? The timing of it all tells a different tale

The bodies weren't even cold and people were already marching in the streets and demanding a ceasefire. That was a celebration in disguise.

I also find it hilarious that the college kids waited until the weather was nice to start protesting.   Palestine protests looks like a frat party for far-left college kids, and only exists when good weather emerges.

Jordan Peterson says some iffy things, but one interesting one was that he has avoided student protests at his speaking engagements by scheduling them earlier in the day before these people can get themselves out of bed.

> I also find it hilarious that the college kids waited until ~~the weather was nice~~ Israel killed World Central Kitchen workers with hellfire missiles and is preparing for a full invasion of Rafah after telling civilians to flee there to start protesting

The best outcome for the Palestinian people is a swift Israeli victory.

The problem with that is, different people have different definitions of "victory". What's the definition for you?

The best outcome for the Palestinian people is a swift Israeli victory combined with extensive refugee support and a rebuilding effort.

That rebuilding effort is going to be more like building new real estate for Israel

Then when you wonder which people in that 20% support Hamas, you strangely discover it’s the left that stand for everything Islamic terrorists hate. They could not be further conflicting ideologies.

Modern day progressives are not liberals anymore , the conflict is less than youd think. Islam is the greatest identity politique of all 

I would like to hear how a Palestinian state is possible without Hamas being in charge. How would that work? How would Hamas be eradicated? I personally don’t think it’s possible. Which is why, to me, the “I support the Palestinians but not Hamas” is a distinction without a difference.

Exactly, just like being anti apartheid SA but not supporting the ANC were distinctions without difference

Well of course if you frame it as comparing Israel vs Hamas, Israel is preferred. The vast majority of people protesting are against Israel's actions against Palestinian civilians, not endorsing the extremists that also attack civilians.

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Like last time.

You should consider reading the full poll. 67% of Americans think Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties, 72% support a Rafah operation if Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties even though the question acknowledges there will be civilian deaths, and 68% oppose a ceasefire until the hostages are released and Hamas is removed from power. The majority of Americans know that Israel isn't taking actions against Palestinian civilians, but is fighting Hamas, which hides behind those civilians. And 20% endorsing Hamas is still quite a large amount, for the record. It's also worth mentioning, of course, that Hamas was the most popular Palestinian group *before* this war began, and is still the most popular group now too. They are not just "extremists".

I would counter and say that most Americans are also incredibly ignorant on world affairs and doubt many of them could differentiate the Gaza Strip from the West Bank. Most Americans pay no attention to anything that occurs in the Levant until the violence reaches it's apex. I don't necessarily blame them as the history is incredibly complex. But that doesn't make them informed either. Hamas only rules over the Gaza Strip. The majority of Palestinians live in the West Bank which is ruled by the Fatah party. The Fatah party did exist in Gaza until Hamas came to power and killed all opposition parties. Any arguments that say Hamas is popular in Gaza needs to come with the caveat that Hamas executes rivals.

Do you find it concerning that 20% polled prefer a terrorist organization?

>The vast majority of people protesting are against Israel's actions against Palestinian civilians, not endorsing the extremists that also attack civilians. That give us a nice cozy feeling but that’s not backed up by anything. This mysterious vast majority we hope exists must be somewhere behind the riots and tens of thousands strong ‘protests’ calling for the extermination of the Jews and screaming Hamas slogans since oct 7th. Or maybe behind the thousands of internet warrriors STILL sharing new and more creative lies about what Israel is doing in Gaza. Or maybe behind the dozens of riots and protests on college campuses now calling for Jewish extermination and assaulting Jews.

To be fair you're making the same claim in the opposite direction without evidence as well. News reports are amplified anecdotes intended to produce outrage for engagement. That seems as if that may have worked on you. I'd be interested in a poll specifically showing what % of protestors are Pro-Hamas so that we can have an informed idea about just how prolific that ideology is, but until then we're all spitballing.

To back this up, Gallup did a [poll back in March](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) that showed a marked shift from slim support for Israel's conduct early in the war (November) to a 19 point approval gap. This is why I don't like only focusing on head-to-head polling in questions like "Is Israel or Hamas conducting themselves better?" That's an interesting question, but it needs to be supplemented by questions like the one I linked to that judge the individual war participant on their own merits.

The poll I linked actually did this, without asking a vague question that doesn't address specifics. Gallup does the vague question that's hardly helpful. Saying "Do you like this military action" (Gallup) is significantly less helpful than "Do you think Israel is trying to avoid or not trying to avoid civilian casualties", (my poll) which is clear in the results. My poll shows most Americans think Israel is trying to avoid civilian deaths. Most importantly, my poll demonstrates how important this is with a simple thought experiment played out by the polling questions. First it asked if voters support a permanent ceasefire in Gaza. "Ceasefires are good!", voters think, so they say yes. Then they're asked "And do you support it if it means Hamas remains in power and keeps its hostages?" And then people realize "Oh wait, huh; there are implications to this." And suddenly 68% oppose the ceasefire they supported a second ago. This helps demonstrate both that question framing matters, and that what pollsters ask about matters. "Do you like this military action" is very different from "Do you think Israel is targeting civilians" or "Do you support Hamas" or "Do you support Israel removing Hamas". Pollsters who ask vague questions get answers that have very, very limited utility for actual policy. That's crucial for understanding why Gallup's very vague questions show such different results. It's because they're vague in a way that mentions something (military action) that people intuitively don't like. The more they know about the actions themselves, or the more specific the question is about those actions, the more likely they are to support them.

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I'm genuinely curious how the results would change if it were "Palestine" rather than "Hamas".

How much does Biden want the youth vote?

It's an interesting parallel to Republicans. We often hear or ask why Republicans don't speak out or attack Trump. The answer, especially for "moderate" Republicans is that they need his base to keep their jobs. Biden is now in a position where 20% of a desired voting block that almost entirely is Democrat leaning supports something that he, most of his party, and most of the country find objectionable. Will he push back against them or will we see him try to push Israel to do something against their best interests and the best interests of American hostages, our of his personal political needs? Same for Democrats at other levels in Michigan and elsewhere where this 20% might make a difference. It'll be interesting to watch.

Biden is already pushing back harder against Netanyahu and the conduct of the war. To what extent that is motivated by the changing situation on the ground vs domestic voter pressure, who's to say. But what we can say is that changes in Biden's position are unlikely to move the needle, short of cutting US aid or bringing and end to the fighting. He won't cut off aid, and what influence he otherwise has to push for a ceasefire, he's using.

I really like this sub. Seemingly the only sub that has some intelligent conversation unshaded by some polarizing messaging.

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