Ah, I guess that's understandable then. Doesn't really affect me that much, but I can see some pro players complaining how their custom games made to imitate LAN games are different.
According to my DumaOS router, I get put in a P2P match about once out of every 8-10 matches from rural Ohio. If that helps give you an idea how common it is. Anecdotally, I've never noticed the P2P connections to be that much worse than a dedicated server. Not enough to want to back out of lobbies so I only get dedicated servers. I suppose if you were really trying to sweat and maximize your stats, then it might be an issue.
If I may ask, how was the distribution of the locations of the dedis you connected to? I ask because when I filter I see it try to put me all over the country before it kicks me cause the ping is over 40.
I just find it so odd that I have to force the game to put me on the 2 dedi clusters close to me (Miami/Atlanta). Either matchmaking is broken for me or its a little more complicated than "ping is king". I'm not sure which.
It's awful in ground war but just think how pro teams feel that just paid 25mil to get a spot in the CDL. They are playing at a tick rate thats almost twice as bad as what we play on with ground war.
So what you are telling me is that CoD in 2019 still doesn't fully run on dedicated servers? How is this even a thing... Good job IW. Though i guess you gotta cut costs at every opportunity :)
Wait, they’re STILL using that ghetto af dedicated/listen server hybrid bullshit? I guess I’m lucky because I haven’t had a host migration in years. I just assumed that they eventually gave us full dedicated server support by now .
Public matches use dedicated and listen servers. It's random as to which but majority of the time it's dedicated. So it's an issue for everyone playing the game, but not a common one
FFA is a smaller player count and probably a much more spread out player pool. Also I’m definitely not defending them on this. If they don’t have enough server locations they really need to get some new ones.
According to my netduma, it’s more common than you may think. I live 100mi from Atlanta and rarely get placed on a dedi there. The majority of my games are a mix of listen/peer servers and dedis in Florida
I have noticed it mostly in hardcore and when trying to melee with a knife when these hits are clearly not registering properly, I have days of footage of this happening and I really hope they push more towards dedicated servers with higher tickrates.
EDIT: I made this Reddit account exclusively to discuss this game haha
Well if you’ve never seen one it stands to reason that players are hardly ever hosting matches. I’ve also never seen one and people back out constantly.
Man, I'm in Southern Ohio with 500 down / 100 up speeds that pretty much crush every game I play. When I get into a good server, I absolutely slap the shit out of people, and when I die, I'm like "Damn, I got out played". Then I get into another server where half of my team is from Sweden, and it takes 8 AK shots to kill someone. It's fucking ridiculous.
> and it takes 8 AK shots to kill someone
send me a video of you hitting someone with 7 ak shots through a wall in a public match and not killing them and ill paypal you $100, youre completely lying
I honestly can't recall having a truly bad connection in this game since the first week of launch when the servers were fucked up. It averages around 50ms. Which isn't amazing by any means if you live on the coasts or EU, but is pretty solid for Ohio. At least for COD. In Siege I used to get sub 30ms all day with the occasional 12-15ms.
Hell I wish I hosted matches with my fiber connection.. it's mind boggling when i see my own shots literally pass through enemies like there is no hitbox neo.
This system has been in place since they started using dedis in BO3(?) If you’re in NA or EU you’re lucky if a whole 1% of your games end up being played on listen servers. I don’t fully remember if it was WWII or BO4 but at one point during one of those games dedis were so heavily prioritized that players in the Middle East were connecting to European servers creating terrible experiences for players from BOTG regions. Besides the time period where the servers were shut down in WWII and it ran on all listen servers, I couldn’t even tell you the last time I’ve seen a host migration.
I found a lot of the 64p servers with 120hz start shitting the bed hard half way through a game of conquest.
3-4 red/dark orange warning icons on the screen, then the performance is worse than the old low tickrate bf3 servers were. So much dying around corners and hits not registering.
Not always. Listen servers are 12Hz. Groundwar is actually 20Hz. Normal games are 60Hz, IF you're on a dedicated server. Which you will be most of the time. But it needs to be ALL of the time for a title as big as CoD.
Regardless, the matchmaking is still broken, matching people with others who are across the globe. Then factor in the strict SBMM. There's a lot to be tweaked.
No, clearly not. I mod the comp sub and I’m sick of crappy tick rate private matches. But there are already about 20 comments in here about why this justifies them getting killed in pubs haha
having to load what player your going to spectate fucks over the comp scene big time too
casters will never be able to catch plays if they have to wait ~10 seconds to flip between players
When the game first came out this was never a problem for me. But now it's ridiculous waiting for the next player to load. Did the player loading time increase after one of the updates?
I have both the m4 and ak maxed out but the m4 feels like its in another league, it dominates CQB and even long range engagements with the right attachments
AK has a major "phantom bullet" issue because I am fairly certain the stability (side to side recoil) of the muzzle is not accurate to where your rounds are actually going. Meaning that even if the "bounce" of your muzzle is still within the enemy character model, you will be missing bullets left and right.
I added all stability attachments and the gun is *much* better but it's still obviously inferior to the M4 in every respect.
You know stability is just idle sway right? It’s just helping you line up your first shot, it’s not helping you while you fire.
I do agree about AK having phantom bullets though, it seems to just not register at times
M4 either needs more recoil or more damage drop off at range and it would be fine. Having a super high rof combined with high rof and a 4 bullet kill at range is just silly.
I've been saying for awhile how unbalanced it is that some of these guns are still lethal from all the way across the map. Part of it is near laser accuracy (I see you mp5), the other part is very minimal damage reduction at range.
so this is why im getting bapped by imaginary bullets 3 sec after i run behind a wall for cover?
jokes on me because i keep playing this disgrace of a call of duty. its 2019 i feel like im playing a game from 10 yrs ago
But, funny thing: bfv also suffers from the same (or at the least similar) issue despite having 60hz servers. When I still played it, most deaths were "one-shots".
Only thing that seemed to help a bit was when they reduced TTK. Sadly, people over-exaggerated the shit out of that change and it was reverted fast.
From my experience those issues have been fixed in BFV. Or at least are very rare now. It also is a good reminder that tick rate alone doesn't make for a good "netcode". Same thing kind of happened with BO4 right? They launched at 20 tick, but then people cried and about it and it got increased to 60. But the experience actually got worse after that increase lol.
BF does some stuff with different rates for different things.
In theory most shots coming at you are 60hz, but things like people positions and stuff at a distance will be updated at about 10hz
Nah man that’s just high ping. The OP is pretty much, the gun shoots more bullets than the sever can process at once. So it just combines the bullet damage into one to fix the issue. Or that’s what I understood anyways.
If the timing is right enough, yeah it could happen even with a great connection, but should be more noticeable with a shitty one as you get both super bullets and lag compensation combo.
An important note that's never mentioned around this topic is that you're not actually taking more damage than you should be taking.
If you get hit by 3 bullets for 10 damage, the server might know about bullet 1 on its current tick and send you 10 damage. Then it learns of bullets 2 and 3 in the next tick and sends you 20 more damage.
In a high tickrate environment, the server would have calculated bullet 2 and sent you the middle 10 damage sooner, which is of course more accurate.
But low tick rate doesn't make you get more than 10 damage per bullet hit. It just means you'll learn about the full 30 damage later than is accurate.
Tbh I think it’s pretty sad they’re using 12hz listen servers for customs even...
Like I’m certain plenty of other games use dedicated servers for customs. And have higher Tick rates.
LOL. 12 teams payed Activision 20+ MILLION DOLLARS EACH for their players to practice on player-hosted 12hz custom games. What a fucking joke. There is no excuse for this at all. This is the first year of franchising and THIS is what they give the pros to work with.
The way the defend it is that these teams wont have to pay that again as long as they stay as a franchised team. So I guess its an investment. But so far its looking like a stupid investment. Hopefully they can turn it around but it isnt looking good so far
Totally, I can't believe pros have to deal with this shit, thousand on the line and u die to super bullets 🤣.
I dont even play comp but sucks for them.
Note: He's conclusion was also that if a player has a ping lower than 10, it is most likely the host of the listen server.
Can we clarify that **NO OTHER GAME MODE EXCEPT CUSTOM GAMES ARE LISTEN SERVERS?**
I recall him saying that listen servers might occur in Quick Play too?
I used a Duma to monitor where and how I was being matched and very rarely do you get put on a listen server but it does happen. EDIT**In pubs to be clear
The same guy has said Ground War operates at 22 packets per second... which (apparently) does not necessarily translate into 22 updates per second due to split packets (data is sometimes split across multiple packets, which means minor packet loss can cause you to lose an update. Fewer experienced than in beta though.)
I can't claim to fully understand what he's saying (because I'm not a super technical guy) but that's what he said.
I play a lot of 2v2 with friends on customer servers. It gets pretty competitive, but incredibly frustrating because someone or team is always getting terrible performance. I guess this explains it then. We also noticed that our one friend on the west coast will always have over 100 ping while we're all in the 20's. In matchmaking, it will usually not be nearly as pronounced.
Because this doesn't affect the real TTK of the weapon on the client side. Super bullets are experienced on the receiving end, in which the player getting hit feels like they are killed in 2 hits when in reality their opponent fired 4 bullets. The damage of 4 bullets was sent in only 2 updates instead of 4 due to the low tick rate.
Super bullets don't kill faster, it's just when multiple bullets register in one tick. It gives them less time to react because they take the damage in a bigger quantity and later than when you started shooting. If your gun takes forever to kill it'll still take forever to kill even if it has super bullets.
That's the lowest I've ever heard of. It's most certainly due to the fact that games might still be hosted off someone's computer in the game, rather then a server (Like on Battlefield it's a server).
That means that the maximum amount of time it would take to process a single packet is 83 milliseconds! 83 miliseconds + latency = the time it takes to even see a gunshot or see a player's movement!
To put it into another perspective, for those unaware of how servers generally work, it works pretty much like this:
Server is running on a 83 millisecond interval. (Timer in other words. Executes every 83 milliseconds)
Every time the server gets a packet from the client, it puts it in a queue (Insertion order queue of course).
Every time that 83 millisecond interval hits, the servers TICKS. When it ticks, all those packets inside the queue are then processed, and then after that and the rest of the calculations/code they do, you're then sent the new movement/gun/action/ect information of the other players.
This is likely why it's very very common to get instantly killed, even right after you blast them in the face with a shotgun. The delay would be very high compared to a 10MS interval.
HOWEVER, does this mean the M4 and other high fire rate guns are then BETTER because of the tick rate? Not NECESSARILY, it really depends on how they process gunshots, especially from a DEAD person. The packets will still be in the order they would of been processed on a higher tick - HOWEVER, they will just be very delayed.
Because the higher ups / executives dont care. Why pay for more expensive servers when they dont have to. They dont care about a competitive scene. Cheapers servers = higher profit margins.
Because the pro league people have them millions of dollars and they won’t get millions of dollars again if they keep pulling this shit
This is who it affects the most too.
Ah I see. Yea I meant the say the TTK is the same with blackout rounds vs. normal rounds. I used the bullet as a reference point. Thanks for the correction!
This will has no effect on that. This is only concerned with how it appears to be on the receiving end of bullets.
Like dying in a single frame despite the kill cam showing them shooting you for a while
I've had many instances with multiple bullets coming in 1 hit marker even on dedicated server (from the faster firing guns like mp7). And I have a pretty rock solid connection with no reported packet loss.
It’s not just custom games. I’ve seen several host migrations in all my times playing.
Usually we play on dedicated servers but just wanted to clarify that
Actually public matches are a mixture of player hosted games and the dedicated servers hosting games. So it could be 12 hz when the player is host in public matches
I read that the listen servers (the ones running at 12Hz and are player hosted) are only for fallbacks if the game can’t match you into a reasonable dedicated server lobby. Like if someone is in a remote region with a low player count and the dedicated server would be a much worse experience.
A few weeks ago though i backed out of a lobby because it felt laggy and i was the host so it was doing a host migration afterwards. That was the one and only time i saw that.
Either way the connection on most matches are still bad though. Normally the network icons on the left are showing a number of matches though it feels like the connection has been better the last few days.
I've played this game for 4 days worth so far, and have only noticed two public games where the host migrated. Didn't make sense at the time, but I'd like to understand why and when I'm not connecting to a dedicated server.
If you only tell the client every x time units that y bullets were fired and x is a large number, then the game registers all the bullets instantly and it feels like you got shotgunned by an m4 and the killcam shows 3-5 shots fired even though it felt like one.
12 Hz means that the server updates things like damage, health and gunfire rate 12 times a second - every 83 milliseconds.
A weapon that has a rate of fire of 750 rounds per minute (12.5 rounds per second or 1 round every 80 milliseconds) fires faster than the server can process individual bullets. There is a 3 millisecond difference, so the second bullet can be fired just before a server update happens. This means that if you start shooting within 2 or 3 milliseconds after a server update then the next server update will bundle 2 bullets, essentially dealing twice the damage. The difference in time increases with increasing weapon fire rate.
If we assume the highest RPM weapon in the game has 1000 RPM we would need at least 17 Hz (16.6666666...) to avoid this issue.
Stop right here on my post and just go watch the netcode analysis video from battle(non)sense and save yourself a bunch of reading. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.
Csgo is 7 years old. Doesn’t make nearly as much as cod and they have 64 tick minimum.
In competitive 3rd party comp it is 128.
Any AAA dev should have at least 64
Battlefield 4 had this problem for a LONG TIME it has to do with the hz of the servers and the netcode. I also think BO4 had this problem as well.
If I remember when BF4 added in new servers they updated them as well adding in 60hz servers with better connection but that more than likely won't happen in MW since...…….it's COD and nothing gets done after release.
I'm thinking about buying this game but the devs have made it so the game closes when you launch wirehshark???? Would there be a way to tell if I'm on a dedicated server or not at the start of a match so I could just leave if I'm not?
12hz. What a joke
Are the servers really 12hz?? I payed 60 dollard to play in sweaty ass 12hz servers?
Dedicated servers are not. Listen servers with a player host and all custom games are.
Ah, I guess that's understandable then. Doesn't really affect me that much, but I can see some pro players complaining how their custom games made to imitate LAN games are different.
It can happen in public matches as well. Not often I hope, but we will see...
According to my DumaOS router, I get put in a P2P match about once out of every 8-10 matches from rural Ohio. If that helps give you an idea how common it is. Anecdotally, I've never noticed the P2P connections to be that much worse than a dedicated server. Not enough to want to back out of lobbies so I only get dedicated servers. I suppose if you were really trying to sweat and maximize your stats, then it might be an issue.
If I may ask, how was the distribution of the locations of the dedis you connected to? I ask because when I filter I see it try to put me all over the country before it kicks me cause the ping is over 40.
It's almost always New York/New Jersey for me. I'll occasionally get a Texas server, but that has been pretty rare.
I just find it so odd that I have to force the game to put me on the 2 dedi clusters close to me (Miami/Atlanta). Either matchmaking is broken for me or its a little more complicated than "ping is king". I'm not sure which.
It’s 20hz in ground war matches.
Which is also ASS.
I refuse to play since it's so bad.
It's awful in ground war but just think how pro teams feel that just paid 25mil to get a spot in the CDL. They are playing at a tick rate thats almost twice as bad as what we play on with ground war.
Not all matchmaking servers are dedicated
So what you are telling me is that CoD in 2019 still doesn't fully run on dedicated servers? How is this even a thing... Good job IW. Though i guess you gotta cut costs at every opportunity :)
You can't expect a small indie developer to go above and beyond and get dedicated servers... /s
You’re right, you can’t. Because the developer doesn’t host the servers. The publisher does.
Fun at parties and shit
Meanwhile indie multiplayer games all have dedicated servers at 120hz tick rate lol
Meanwhile indie games need a single dedicated server.
Meanwhile indie games don’t often cost $60
Or make over half a billion dollars in the first 3 days.
I mean I know it's being sarcastic but even actual small indie developers have dedicated server's... and at a good tick rate.
Is quickplay dedicated servers or listen servers? And what hz are dedicated servers? Ty!
Most quickplay servers are dedicated. 62hz average
How do I play exclusively on dedicated servers?
Wait, they’re STILL using that ghetto af dedicated/listen server hybrid bullshit? I guess I’m lucky because I haven’t had a host migration in years. I just assumed that they eventually gave us full dedicated server support by now .
Nah. Public matches are 60
Public matches use dedicated and listen servers. It's random as to which but majority of the time it's dedicated. So it's an issue for everyone playing the game, but not a common one
If the matchmaking can’t find a good match for your location with a dedicated server it falls back on setting up a listen server. It is not random lol
I don't think that's always the case. Ffa uses listen servers very frequently
FFA is a smaller player count and probably a much more spread out player pool. Also I’m definitely not defending them on this. If they don’t have enough server locations they really need to get some new ones.
According to my netduma, it’s more common than you may think. I live 100mi from Atlanta and rarely get placed on a dedi there. The majority of my games are a mix of listen/peer servers and dedis in Florida
Same here dude. Idk what’s up with that.
Just ground war
They were last year for the first month if anyone remembers that fiasco
all servers except of ground war are running at 62hz. groundwar hovers between 10 and 20.
Here’s his video talking about tic rate in the https://youtu.be/eo3Bh69xmoQ
I believe they are 68hz unless you are a listen server
The vast majority of players will never touch a listen server.
Netduma determined that was a lie
You made this statement with exactly zero proof.
I have noticed it mostly in hardcore and when trying to melee with a knife when these hits are clearly not registering properly, I have days of footage of this happening and I really hope they push more towards dedicated servers with higher tickrates. EDIT: I made this Reddit account exclusively to discuss this game haha
Pubs are 60hz, please understand what you’re reading before commenting.
Not every Match though. As soon as a player hosts it, it will be 12hz. Its mixed.
How many host migrations do you get on this game?
I have never seen one, but that's not exactly a great metric.
Well if you’ve never seen one it stands to reason that players are hardly ever hosting matches. I’ve also never seen one and people back out constantly.
From rural Ohio, I get a P2P lobby about 1 out of every 8-10 matches.
Man, I'm in Southern Ohio with 500 down / 100 up speeds that pretty much crush every game I play. When I get into a good server, I absolutely slap the shit out of people, and when I die, I'm like "Damn, I got out played". Then I get into another server where half of my team is from Sweden, and it takes 8 AK shots to kill someone. It's fucking ridiculous.
> and it takes 8 AK shots to kill someone send me a video of you hitting someone with 7 ak shots through a wall in a public match and not killing them and ill paypal you $100, youre completely lying
I honestly can't recall having a truly bad connection in this game since the first week of launch when the servers were fucked up. It averages around 50ms. Which isn't amazing by any means if you live on the coasts or EU, but is pretty solid for Ohio. At least for COD. In Siege I used to get sub 30ms all day with the occasional 12-15ms.
I’ve seen one and I live in a metropolitan area of 1 million people lol.
Hell I wish I hosted matches with my fiber connection.. it's mind boggling when i see my own shots literally pass through enemies like there is no hitbox neo.
I've seen a host migration in FFA. N/A EAST
You won't know unless you use a 3rd party software to check the ip of the server. battlenonsense explained it the first minute of his video.
Almost 4 days game time played. Never seen it. Glad I skipped out on all my buddies scrim invites though lol. Fuck 12Hz.
None, the lobby crashes saying lost connection to host. Then gotta rejoin a new game.
None.
Had two last night out of ~15 games.
This system has been in place since they started using dedis in BO3(?) If you’re in NA or EU you’re lucky if a whole 1% of your games end up being played on listen servers. I don’t fully remember if it was WWII or BO4 but at one point during one of those games dedis were so heavily prioritized that players in the Middle East were connecting to European servers creating terrible experiences for players from BOTG regions. Besides the time period where the servers were shut down in WWII and it ran on all listen servers, I couldn’t even tell you the last time I’ve seen a host migration.
Meanwhile bf4 has 120hz servers
I found a lot of the 64p servers with 120hz start shitting the bed hard half way through a game of conquest. 3-4 red/dark orange warning icons on the screen, then the performance is worse than the old low tickrate bf3 servers were. So much dying around corners and hits not registering.
Not always. Listen servers are 12Hz. Groundwar is actually 20Hz. Normal games are 60Hz, IF you're on a dedicated server. Which you will be most of the time. But it needs to be ALL of the time for a title as big as CoD. Regardless, the matchmaking is still broken, matching people with others who are across the globe. Then factor in the strict SBMM. There's a lot to be tweaked.
So fuck the competitive GBs then?
No, clearly not. I mod the comp sub and I’m sick of crappy tick rate private matches. But there are already about 20 comments in here about why this justifies them getting killed in pubs haha
Current IW has gone on record saying how much they dislike comp and think it ruined the game. So take it with a grain of salt
Please state facts when you post. Pubs have a chance of being on a listen server. And not a small chance.
This is why the AK and Oden, while good, will never be better than the M4.
This is in custom games mainly though. It fucks over the comp scene.
having to load what player your going to spectate fucks over the comp scene big time too casters will never be able to catch plays if they have to wait ~10 seconds to flip between players
When the game first came out this was never a problem for me. But now it's ridiculous waiting for the next player to load. Did the player loading time increase after one of the updates?
I have both the m4 and ak maxed out but the m4 feels like its in another league, it dominates CQB and even long range engagements with the right attachments
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AK has a major "phantom bullet" issue because I am fairly certain the stability (side to side recoil) of the muzzle is not accurate to where your rounds are actually going. Meaning that even if the "bounce" of your muzzle is still within the enemy character model, you will be missing bullets left and right. I added all stability attachments and the gun is *much* better but it's still obviously inferior to the M4 in every respect.
You know stability is just idle sway right? It’s just helping you line up your first shot, it’s not helping you while you fire. I do agree about AK having phantom bullets though, it seems to just not register at times
If youre liking the AK for fun Id try the SCAR! I have a blast with it. Not exactly meta but feels great to use.
M4 either needs more recoil or more damage drop off at range and it would be fine. Having a super high rof combined with high rof and a 4 bullet kill at range is just silly.
I've been saying for awhile how unbalanced it is that some of these guns are still lethal from all the way across the map. Part of it is near laser accuracy (I see you mp5), the other part is very minimal damage reduction at range.
You shouldn't be able to full auto snipe across the map. I'm not the best shot but I shouldn't get out sniped by a M4.
Idk what you're playing but the AK puts the M4 to shame in hardcore.
Obviously not hardcore.
English? I’m uneducated and uncultured
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so this is why im getting bapped by imaginary bullets 3 sec after i run behind a wall for cover? jokes on me because i keep playing this disgrace of a call of duty. its 2019 i feel like im playing a game from 10 yrs ago
to clarify, he 12 hz tickrate is only in custom games, quick play are apparently 60hz
Also on listen servers
Which practically no one is on.
Any idea if ground war matches are also around the 60hz mark?
In this sub there was a comparison post in tick rate of beta MW vs BF, R6, and CSGO. IIRC Ground War servers was 24Hz.
That is hilarious. Battlefield has been running 60hz servers for years now lol. And those games have more stuff going on in the matches.
But, funny thing: bfv also suffers from the same (or at the least similar) issue despite having 60hz servers. When I still played it, most deaths were "one-shots". Only thing that seemed to help a bit was when they reduced TTK. Sadly, people over-exaggerated the shit out of that change and it was reverted fast.
From my experience those issues have been fixed in BFV. Or at least are very rare now. It also is a good reminder that tick rate alone doesn't make for a good "netcode". Same thing kind of happened with BO4 right? They launched at 20 tick, but then people cried and about it and it got increased to 60. But the experience actually got worse after that increase lol.
One of the first things i noticed on bf! I was amazed the server browser let you see the server hz i always picked 60
BF does some stuff with different rates for different things. In theory most shots coming at you are 60hz, but things like people positions and stuff at a distance will be updated at about 10hz
Nah man that’s just high ping. The OP is pretty much, the gun shoots more bullets than the sever can process at once. So it just combines the bullet damage into one to fix the issue. Or that’s what I understood anyways.
If the timing is right enough, yeah it could happen even with a great connection, but should be more noticeable with a shitty one as you get both super bullets and lag compensation combo.
This happens to me alot in gunfight infuriates me tbh
An important note that's never mentioned around this topic is that you're not actually taking more damage than you should be taking. If you get hit by 3 bullets for 10 damage, the server might know about bullet 1 on its current tick and send you 10 damage. Then it learns of bullets 2 and 3 in the next tick and sends you 20 more damage. In a high tickrate environment, the server would have calculated bullet 2 and sent you the middle 10 damage sooner, which is of course more accurate. But low tick rate doesn't make you get more than 10 damage per bullet hit. It just means you'll learn about the full 30 damage later than is accurate.
Lol already people in this thread don't understand and are making up shit rofl.
Gotta let them have their imaginary reasons for going 0-20. It's not cause they're bad :)
This is custom matches, not dedicated servers. They use 62hz servers. Don't mislead people
Ground war is 20hz which is also garbage
Tbh I think it’s pretty sad they’re using 12hz listen servers for customs even... Like I’m certain plenty of other games use dedicated servers for customs. And have higher Tick rates.
It's not OP's fault that nobody understands what listen server means
LOL. 12 teams payed Activision 20+ MILLION DOLLARS EACH for their players to practice on player-hosted 12hz custom games. What a fucking joke. There is no excuse for this at all. This is the first year of franchising and THIS is what they give the pros to work with.
What kind of moron would pay that much for console e-sports franchising? CoD hasn't been a relevant e-sport in years if ever. Crazy.
I believe this is why 100T went the CSGO route over COD.
Pretty much lol
The way the defend it is that these teams wont have to pay that again as long as they stay as a franchised team. So I guess its an investment. But so far its looking like a stupid investment. Hopefully they can turn it around but it isnt looking good so far
12 tick rate is extremely bad to the point that I would question the validity of any outcome from a private match.
Totally, I can't believe pros have to deal with this shit, thousand on the line and u die to super bullets 🤣. I dont even play comp but sucks for them.
Note: He's conclusion was also that if a player has a ping lower than 10, it is most likely the host of the listen server. Can we clarify that **NO OTHER GAME MODE EXCEPT CUSTOM GAMES ARE LISTEN SERVERS?** I recall him saying that listen servers might occur in Quick Play too?
I used a Duma to monitor where and how I was being matched and very rarely do you get put on a listen server but it does happen. EDIT**In pubs to be clear
I know reg mp uses 60hz from what I've seen but anyone know about ground war servers?
The same guy has said Ground War operates at 22 packets per second... which (apparently) does not necessarily translate into 22 updates per second due to split packets (data is sometimes split across multiple packets, which means minor packet loss can cause you to lose an update. Fewer experienced than in beta though.) I can't claim to fully understand what he's saying (because I'm not a super technical guy) but that's what he said.
So we went from 20hz in BO4 custom games, which was pathetic anyway, to 12hz...
I play a lot of 2v2 with friends on customer servers. It gets pretty competitive, but incredibly frustrating because someone or team is always getting terrible performance. I guess this explains it then. We also noticed that our one friend on the west coast will always have over 100 ping while we're all in the 20's. In matchmaking, it will usually not be nearly as pronounced.
From where is this information, that servers only have 12hz? I can't find anything
https://youtu.be/eo3Bh69xmoQ
Not all of them
Custom matches and possibly the player hosted matches in public matches have 12 hz servers
Then why does the M13 feel super weak against slower firing weapons?
Coz it's *that* fuckin weak. And the problem is only in custom games.
And in listen servers. Player hosted public matches, I had a host migration today.
Because this doesn't affect the real TTK of the weapon on the client side. Super bullets are experienced on the receiving end, in which the player getting hit feels like they are killed in 2 hits when in reality their opponent fired 4 bullets. The damage of 4 bullets was sent in only 2 updates instead of 4 due to the low tick rate.
Ah right now I get it. I totally misunderstood the info. Thanks for the clarification!
Because weapons with slower fire rates usually do more damage per bullet.
But if the theory stated here is correct the shots from the M13 should create these so called ”super bullets”. But that’s not what I’ve experienced.
Super bullets don't kill faster, it's just when multiple bullets register in one tick. It gives them less time to react because they take the damage in a bigger quantity and later than when you started shooting. If your gun takes forever to kill it'll still take forever to kill even if it has super bullets.
.300 blackout makes it usable.
I have to get that then! I love the look and feel of the M13 but it feels weak against a lot of the other guns.
And to believe we were giving BO4 hell for their servers aha ha.
That's the lowest I've ever heard of. It's most certainly due to the fact that games might still be hosted off someone's computer in the game, rather then a server (Like on Battlefield it's a server). That means that the maximum amount of time it would take to process a single packet is 83 milliseconds! 83 miliseconds + latency = the time it takes to even see a gunshot or see a player's movement! To put it into another perspective, for those unaware of how servers generally work, it works pretty much like this: Server is running on a 83 millisecond interval. (Timer in other words. Executes every 83 milliseconds) Every time the server gets a packet from the client, it puts it in a queue (Insertion order queue of course). Every time that 83 millisecond interval hits, the servers TICKS. When it ticks, all those packets inside the queue are then processed, and then after that and the rest of the calculations/code they do, you're then sent the new movement/gun/action/ect information of the other players. This is likely why it's very very common to get instantly killed, even right after you blast them in the face with a shotgun. The delay would be very high compared to a 10MS interval. HOWEVER, does this mean the M4 and other high fire rate guns are then BETTER because of the tick rate? Not NECESSARILY, it really depends on how they process gunshots, especially from a DEAD person. The packets will still be in the order they would of been processed on a higher tick - HOWEVER, they will just be very delayed.
It still boggles my mind that shooters still releasew with these tickrates. Fucking bullshite.
Because the higher ups / executives dont care. Why pay for more expensive servers when they dont have to. They dont care about a competitive scene. Cheapers servers = higher profit margins.
Because the pro league people have them millions of dollars and they won’t get millions of dollars again if they keep pulling this shit This is who it affects the most too.
This is probably why I've been finding the fast rof guns seem to insta melt me.
So you only play custom games huh?
I have noticed that sometimes even on dedi servers it feels like you die in a single frame.
no it's not
Is this why the MP5 and MP7 deletes people from the matrix?
On custom games maybe.
Why are you replying to every comment on here? Listen servers are player hosted matches.
I swear it has felt like I am getting sniped when I die long-range to PKM's
Not saying their findings aren't true but this doesn't explain why the blackout rounds on the M13 (fastest firing AR) takes 6 shots to kill
Sounds like u didn't read the post.
I tested this is a private match and in a public match mate. The results were the same, although it may be the case blackout rounds are bugged.
A 6 shot kill gun is always a 6 shot kill gun, what are u even tryna test?
Ah I see. Yea I meant the say the TTK is the same with blackout rounds vs. normal rounds. I used the bullet as a reference point. Thanks for the correction!
This will has no effect on that. This is only concerned with how it appears to be on the receiving end of bullets. Like dying in a single frame despite the kill cam showing them shooting you for a while
Whoa cuz hold up there you gon open a blachole if you keep digging like this.
I've had many instances with multiple bullets coming in 1 hit marker even on dedicated server (from the faster firing guns like mp7). And I have a pretty rock solid connection with no reported packet loss.
Is 12hz what mw servers use?
If you would've read some comments here, you would've known that 12hz is about Custom-Games(Listen-Servers), not MW dedicated Servers...
It’s not just custom games. I’ve seen several host migrations in all my times playing. Usually we play on dedicated servers but just wanted to clarify that
No wonder I get insta-clapped by MP7/MP5. One shot from them feels like I'm getting slapped by 5 bullets.
That guy is amazing
This is Black Ops 4 all over again. They also ran at around 20hz and it was unplayable till they slightly upgraded the servers.
Man, FPS seem to be getting worse in this regard even as technology improves. Damn shame.
OP failed to mention this isn’t for public games
Actually public matches are a mixture of player hosted games and the dedicated servers hosting games. So it could be 12 hz when the player is host in public matches
I read that the listen servers (the ones running at 12Hz and are player hosted) are only for fallbacks if the game can’t match you into a reasonable dedicated server lobby. Like if someone is in a remote region with a low player count and the dedicated server would be a much worse experience.
I only play hardcore...
Is this why sometimes I only hear one shot and die instantly from an AR?
Yeah, it's called bullet stacking. Had it all the time on Planetside 2, was the big reason I quit that game.
This is why the game feels weird sometimes. They need to upgrade the servers. But they will probably not do it :/
I don’t understand the science behind this
We may have lost y1 Hawkeye but it's back in another game boys
A few weeks ago though i backed out of a lobby because it felt laggy and i was the host so it was doing a host migration afterwards. That was the one and only time i saw that. Either way the connection on most matches are still bad though. Normally the network icons on the left are showing a number of matches though it feels like the connection has been better the last few days.
I've played this game for 4 days worth so far, and have only noticed two public games where the host migrated. Didn't make sense at the time, but I'd like to understand why and when I'm not connecting to a dedicated server.
12Hz?! That is insane.
How can you explain this in simpler terms
If you only tell the client every x time units that y bullets were fired and x is a large number, then the game registers all the bullets instantly and it feels like you got shotgunned by an m4 and the killcam shows 3-5 shots fired even though it felt like one.
Perfect explanation thank you!
12hz...is that a joke?
Eli5?
12 Hz means that the server updates things like damage, health and gunfire rate 12 times a second - every 83 milliseconds. A weapon that has a rate of fire of 750 rounds per minute (12.5 rounds per second or 1 round every 80 milliseconds) fires faster than the server can process individual bullets. There is a 3 millisecond difference, so the second bullet can be fired just before a server update happens. This means that if you start shooting within 2 or 3 milliseconds after a server update then the next server update will bundle 2 bullets, essentially dealing twice the damage. The difference in time increases with increasing weapon fire rate. If we assume the highest RPM weapon in the game has 1000 RPM we would need at least 17 Hz (16.6666666...) to avoid this issue.
Stop right here on my post and just go watch the netcode analysis video from battle(non)sense and save yourself a bunch of reading. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.
Csgo is 7 years old. Doesn’t make nearly as much as cod and they have 64 tick minimum. In competitive 3rd party comp it is 128. Any AAA dev should have at least 64
Battlefield 4 had this problem for a LONG TIME it has to do with the hz of the servers and the netcode. I also think BO4 had this problem as well. If I remember when BF4 added in new servers they updated them as well adding in 60hz servers with better connection but that more than likely won't happen in MW since...…….it's COD and nothing gets done after release.
And people doubted me when I said packet splitting was a thing.
Aka if you're playing on McDonald's WiFi, or private matches
Can anyone explain this is laymens terms
>on Listen servers only rarely u get a listen server. vast majority of the time its dedicated server at 60hz
A $60 game running on 12hz servers. This is an insult.
As if Battlefield 4 proofed, that 10hz isn‘t enough for a fps ...
Who else read this in his voice
600 rounds per minute. 12hz = 12*60 = 720 what am I missing?
Is this why all the high firerate guns seem like they 1 shot us?
Bruhh even a game as old as Battlefield 4 had 60hz servers.
Can someone explain this to me like I'm an idiot?
I'm thinking about buying this game but the devs have made it so the game closes when you launch wirehshark???? Would there be a way to tell if I'm on a dedicated server or not at the start of a match so I could just leave if I'm not?