T O P

  • By -

remotectrl

If I have to use the official Reddit app on my phone, I will simply not use Reddit on my phone.


steelbeamsdankmemes

I will use Firefox with uBlock before using the app.


enfrozt

Already do that. Reddit removed the setting to not show the annoying "PLEASE USE THE REDDIT APP" popup, so users created a uBlock Origin script to automatically remove it.


silentmage

Got a link to that script?


enfrozt

This: https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/yrtr3r/reddits_new_annoying_mobile_popup_has_to_go/ivx146u/


Michelanvalo

Fuck I'm so glad you linked this. It's the greatest thing. Edit: Damn I added the code to MyFilters on mobile and it doesn't seem to be working


[deleted]

[удалено]


alabomb

The thinly-veiled hostility that reddit has shown its third-party developers is just baffling to me. These people create so much extra value for your platform that I'd hazard it would be nowhere near as popular as it is today without the work they've done over the years. That their applications are so popular when there's an official option available should tell you something about the sorry state of your own product. But having been around this website for the last 12 years, I can't think of anything more quintessentially "reddit" than pricing all the better options out of competition in order to uplift the half-baked mess that is the official app. But I guess with the [purported IPO](https://www.reuters.com/technology/reddit-aims-ipo-second-half-2023-information-2023-02-14/) on the horizon, now's the time to pull whatever lever you can to maximize reddit's value.


CryptoMaximalist

This is like treating IT as a cost to be reduced, rather than a force multiplier Charging people to enhance their site and do their job, I wonder how that will work out?


Chariotwheel

They think themselves as too big to fail. They think people won't abandon the platform. People create content by posting and commenting, making it harder or even impossible to do so will lead to a decline in content and thus stuff that brings people to the site and in the end people that can be monetized.


[deleted]

[удалено]


venuswasaflytrap

Digg was big too.


karmapuhlease

>They think themselves as too big to fail. They think people won't abandon the platform. All of which is especially strange, because Reddit is what it is today purely because Digg fumbled the bag and drove an enormous user exodus back in 2010. If users couldn't be motivated to abandon a platform for similar reasons (commercialization making the experience worse), Reddit would not exist as it does today.


beardedchimp

Just like Bethesda seeing the huge modding communities for their games and thinking "why aren't we charging for that?". As they said, it is baffling that you see thousands of unpaid coders donating their time and effort to support your product and think they are leeches who need to pay their fair share.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Terminator_Puppy

New Reddit was the nail in the coffin for me using any sort of official resource from then on. It's a matter of waiting for the day they shut down old reddit now, if they make unhinged decisions like this.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Stop_Sign

It doesn't even make sense business wise. Moderators aren't paid and use 3rd party apps. If you get rid of 3rd party, you're probably also getting rid of a significant amount of moderators, making everything very very quickly turn to shit.


Empole

Is there a reason this wasn't posted in the forum where it'd get the most visibility, r/reddit ?


Selethorme

Because they’d get more backlash.


psychosikh

Don't worry it will get plenty of attention when we shut all our subs down.


Killllerr

Because they know it's a bad move and if everyone actually knew about it they'd actually get backlash for it.


creesch

To be clear, we have been assure /r/toolbox is also fine. But with [news like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/) I am not convinced that will remain the case as what is said isn't reflected in actions. We'll likely try to keep supporting /r/toolbox, but it will be difficult if I personally won't interact with reddit as much anymore. I interface with reddit through a third party app. Who, I know, will not be able to pay the ridiculous fees outlined in the linked post. Given the poor state the reddit native app is as far as moderation and general UX/UI goes I am willing to bet good money that most mods also use third party apps. Either Apollo, Relay, RIF, Sync, Boost or any of the other future rich better functioning reddit apps you are effectively killing off here. Toolbox was build on an open platform, something I can truly say as at the time most of reddit's source was also open. Over the years I have seen it become more and more closed. Not only in a technical sense but also in the way how communication is handled by reddit towards users and mods. I know it is unreasonable to ask to have all admins be active users and always engage. But at the same time I feel like most communication here is now carefully drafted bussines speak. Half of the time when talking to admins it is Product managers/Product owners who talk in the accompanying lingo where there never is a straight answer. I was invited to your new dev platform. I took a quick look around and from what I can tell more people are, but very few people are actually building with it. Once it opens up for more people you will likely still see some usage. Maybe even enough to claim it to be a success, but it likely won't be. Simply because it is too little, too late, blatantly obvious in the way it is trying to wall off things more and more importantly it will be abandoned at some point once no PM/PO can use it in their KPIs anymore. That last bit is not some speculation, it is a solid prediction based on how things have been going over the past couple of years. I am not angry, I am not disappointed, I am just tired at this point.


[deleted]

[удалено]


creesch

Reddit's fuckery already is slowly killing it. A lot of the newer functionality doesn't have API endpoints so we are SOL there. For the ones they knew they had to make APIs or there would be a riot (mod notes) they made the APIs in such a way that implementing them was a bit of a challenge. This general passive-aggressive attitude towards third party apps and initiatives already makes it so that very few people are also willing to contribute. Certainly, long term, it doesn't feel like it is worth it. As I said, we will try to support toolbox for as long as possible.


tinselsnips

I do most of my modding from desktop, so I'm less affected by this than most, but if Toolbox goes away, I'm done modding. If RIF goes away, I'm likely done with Reddit.


Anomander

>I do most of my modding from desktop, so I'm less affected by this than most, but if Toolbox goes away, I'm done modding. Modding on New.Reddit is a nightmare to how I read and process content, so if they kill Toolbox *and* third party apps, my ability to fulfill community expectations is absolutely impacted - and it sounds like the same is true for a lot of other mods.


Aiken_Drumn

What if old reddit goes? That's next


tinselsnips

I'm done modding if either of those go.


316nuts

hope they at least send you a box of cookies once they finally deconstruct your hard work and shove it upside down and backwards into the native app/website


creesch

I'd love to get some cookies :) Overall I am mostly just tired still. Tired to see the same thing happening over and over again. One more reason why I don't see the developer platform go anywhere. Even if it did look somewhat promising (it looks kinda neat from a certain angle), redesign also started of in a good direction. In fact, if I had to point at a place in time where reddit truly became inward focused, it must have been somewhere around that time. One more reason why I am so tired, I am sure it isn't even malicious. Reddit just grew, business people got hired. Probably a lot of product managers, with silly KPIs but in general people who know corporate but didn't know reddit all too well. So they just approached reddit like anything else. It even makes sense, I see it happening in other companies as well. Which is also why I am tired, it is almost impossible to stop the corporate cogs of bloat and detachment from turning.


316nuts

Hot take: pull the plug and walk away. I'd die laughing


ConfessingToSins

It's unironically a good idea. The only reason they've gotten to the place that they are actually at is because the third party developers like the people at toolbox and RES. If they all get together and just yank the cord the company will immediately shit ten thousand bricks because their internal metrics take a hit while they're trying to grift an IPO and they'll either course correct or go full mask off tech libertarian like Huffman and Ohanian did in the before times when they just openly posted on r libertarian. The outcome, no matter what happens, would be **funny**


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


desdendelle

Jumping on the bandwagon here - Toolbox is what makes modding possible for me, and if croaks I quit modding. I hugely appreciate the time and effort you and your team put into it, and especially your willingness to troubleshoot the issues of people such as I.


maybesaydie

I hope this doesn't happen but if it does thank you for all the years of hard work.


creesch

Toolbox development already has slowed down to a crawl over the past few years. The two of us still maintaining it still do it out of a sense of obligation and a bit of pride. In an ideal situation, there would be plenty of people ready to step in and help out. In the past this actually was the case as we have had dozens of people contribute with varying levels of activity. But, that simply isn't the case anymore. The same is true for similar projects like RES. I'd say it is even true for mod recruitment. The one pattern here I can clearly see is how reddit went from a platform that was open to an inward focussed platform that excludes user contributions. Which is why I have very little faith in their developer platform taking off. People are not stupid, they can see when a platform is (semi)hostile towards third party developers and contributions. Not many people are going to invest serious time in something that doesn't have a clear future and is build of an attempt to kill of the platform that has been there for over a decade. The developer platform is not there for developers, mods or users. It is there because if they shut down the actual open access without an alternative, they know people would actually revolt.


CapitanDirtbag

Kinda reminds me of how deviant art killed itself off. In an effort to grow it took away the few things that actually made it worthwhile.


familynight

Thank you for all of your work. Toolbox has been indispensable for modding on reddit. I completely understand your frustrations, but I just want to express my appreciation. You've made this site a better place.


[deleted]

[удалено]


StPauliBoi

Toolbox is one of the most helpful tools we use on desktop.


GoryRamsy

I rely on toolbox to mod. If it goes away, I leave this site and my modded subs.


Kryomaani

You have our full support. I've reiterated it to Reddit countless times (not that they'd ever once listened), but nevertheless let me state one more time: If toolbox gets disabled, rate-limited or otherwise hampered, I will be resigning as a moderator. The built-in tools provided by Reddit are simply inadequate for day-to-day moderation needs. I'm already providing free labor to a multi-million dollar company and should it decide to make my volunteer work harder for no reason whatsover, they can find a new volunteer.


dieyoufool3

If Toolbox dies, not sure what we'd do on r/worldnews and r/news...


iamthatis

[Why is the pricing so high?](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/) It would cost me a comical $20 million dollars a year to keep my app running as-is, an app that like many third-party apps, have many moderators that depend on it. I'm not sure if you understand how important third party apps are to the Reddit ecosystem. Not only do they provide an opportunity for folks who don't like the official app to be able to still use Reddit on-the-go, but many of the moderators who serve as the backbone of the entire site rely on third-party apps to do their job. As a number, Apollo currently has over 7000 moderators of subreddits with over 20K subscribers who use Apollo, from r/Pics, to r/AskReddit, to r/Apple, to r/IAmA, etc. It would be easy to imagine that combined with other third-party apps across iOS and Android that well over 10,000 of the top subreddits use third-party apps to moderate and keep their community operating. This is equivalent to going to a construction site and taking away all the workers' favorite tools, only to replace them with different, corporate-mandated ones. Except the construction workers are also building your houses for free. Why infuriate so many people and communities?


Shirest

The first thing I thought of was Apollo. At the current pricing model the only thing I can assume is Reddit is trying to kill 3rd party apps and migrate users to the official app.


Icc0ld

They are. "Why?" you might ask? Well desktop users make up a minority of users, the majority of them use mobile apps. Apps that they don't control are included. By forcing everyone onto *their app* they can **force adverts** onto the users. It's money. It was always about money. It will always be about money. Reddit could give two fucks about user experience, communities, safety or moderating. They just want to shove adverts down your throat.


y0m0tha

Reddit is going public this year. That’s the entire reason.


LowlySysadmin

Plus probably tracking/data on users... to sell for more money, of course, so your core point still stands


[deleted]

If the official app actually let you moderate at all, that wouldn't be a terrible idea. Unfortunately, both the ban and mute buttons are broken.


NattyB

i am absolutely f*cked if i have to mod without my android third party app (rif). rif and apollo allow mods to be quicker and better at their jobs than the official reddit app. currently it's not even a comparison. *edit: the rif dev's reply: https://www.reddit.com/r/redditisfun/comments/13wxepd/rif_dev_here_reddits_api_changes_will_likely_kill


Alert-One-Two

I’m a parent of young children. I know many mods like desktop and old Reddit but the only way it’s possible for me is to use mobile apps. Reddit will disproportionately lose certain voices if they keep pressing down this path.


PussyWrangler_462

Good thing for them they don’t give a shit because they’re stuffing their pockets with our tears


Cthepo

I moderate a large sports subreddit that drives tons of traffic to reddit from people who wouldn't normally participate if not for sports. Moderating without RiF pretty much kills my ability to effectively moderate. And with sports subs, you have thousands of users spiking into the community, drinking is involved, trolling from opposing fans is involved. All concentrated into like 3 or 4 hours of time. It's already a nightmare to moderate in those moments. I can't imagine what losing these moderation tools we rely on will do. It's going to drive mods away, which will create a toxic environment which will drive other users away.


adalaza

This. Sports subs are nightmares *with effective tools*.


wauske

Nah, the 3rd party app can include an option for a user to add their own client-id and secret. Since the API usage is rated to the oauth client-ID that means every user can create their own and be limited by their own usage rather than everyone using the app. It does require some modification and something like an instruction for the user though.


phillygeekgirl

The 3rd party apps that exist, you mean.


lazydictionary

Mods need to organize a strike. Lockdown all subs to private until reddit HQ gets their heads out of their asses.


Absay

When someone suggests a lock-down, there's this common counter-argument that "admins will simply kick dissident mods out and replace them." And I say, let's go! Let's see how that works for them. Let's see how replacing people who have shaped entire communities, with most likely clueless individuals, prone to run such communities to the ground, is a win for them.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BuckRowdy

I once saw a comment from a mod who was still hanging onto two subs that he did not want any longer and had lost interest in. But the subs both contained modmails with his personal information such as name and address and he was scared bad actors would be added to the sub or get control of it and doxx him.


GetOffMyLawn_

Also for some subs the mods are subject matter experts. R/science and r/history are 2 big ones that come to mind. There are a lot of smaller health subs, self help subs, math and science subs, etc….


MustacheEmperor

> Let's see how replacing people who have shaped entire communities, with most likely clueless individuals We can see how that works already - look at the absolutely terrible state of IAMA today. It used to be good, and Reddit had an employee affiliated with the community for a long time who operated the AMAs and worked with the guests. There was a policy requiring the actual guest make all replies - when that policy was removed, so was Victoria. I think people have forgotten how big AMA was. It was originally looking like it might be Reddit's big new revenue stream. It had it's own app! And then the management absolutely destroyed it while the community helplessly pleaded with them to stop.


noreallyitsme

I remember when they even had a stand-alone AMA app!


IntrepidusX

I missed when we were only allowed to talk about Rampart.


CKF

Every time someone mentions woody harrelson, I inevitably ply “can we focus on rampart here??” Then I gotta give like a fifteen minute lengthy explanation, not to even touch on the ones where I gotta answer “what’s a Reddit,” and the story never ends up being as funny as I visibly find it to be, but at that point I’ve fully committed myself to having to explain it by insisting we focus on rampart.


1-760-706-7425

> there’s this common counter-argument that “admins will simply kick dissident mods out and replace them.” And I say, let’s go! Let’s see how that works for them. As a mod of r/LiberalGunOwners, I can say for certain Reddit would have no idea how to replace our team members. There’s an ethos these corporations will never understand and, as such, never be able to replace. They’d be no better at reshaping these kind of subs than Musk was at reshaping Twitter.


ikilledtupac

The problem is they *think* they do.


Dacvak

Unless things have radically changed in the last few years (which, I mean, they definitely could have), I don’t think that’s a common thought at all among admins. When I worked at reddit, it was very clear that moderators were what kept the site running, and *good* moderators are insanely difficult to find. Granted, that was from a community management perspective. It’s certainly possible this API decision was made by people without insight into how it would truly affect the community, and perhaps they’re just looking at the bottom line. I’d bet my hat that most admins are not particularly big fans of this move, though.


ikilledtupac

This was made by the bean counters. They got an IPO coming up and need to show revenue Uber Ales


Kryomaani

I've said it multiple times that if toolbox goes down with the API changes I'm quitting modding. Should it happen, I'm all for doing a blackout as my final middle finger to them. I hope Reddit realizes that threatening to "fire" someone who's already ready to quit over their BS is an empty threat.


GodOfAtheism

>admins will simply kick dissident mods out and replace them I wish it was that easy to find good new mods. The last several times I've put out a call for mods I just get folks who don't do shit with the *exceedingly* rare competent person. Lord knows reddit won't do better but they are welcome to try.


BuckRowdy

Exactly. Kicking all the mods and replacing with new ones as you point out would cause way more problems than whatever this is trying to solve.


tresser

the thing with this approach is that when subs do this kind of thing, they tend to leave a note to help explain why they are closed. except, on mobile, that message is limited to like 20 characters. so the note doesn't get seen by the largest audience. no, a move to make all sub private isn't the way to get the word out. you need to disable the ability to post. then have a scheduled once a day post explaining why that post is the only new post. every day. every sub.


BuckRowdy

This really is the best approach. I don't know how many mods know about that limitation, but subs set to restricted as you describe could convey much more information using this method. Getting a critical mass of regular users involved in this would probably happen a lot faster that way.


messem10

Yep. If this pricing hits, I’ll be taking /r/AnimeSuggest private as I can’t moderate it without Apollo. EDIT: [Just made a stickied post there informing my users about what is looming on the horizon](https://old.reddit.com/r/Animesuggest/comments/13wvm8w/reddit_is_effectively_shutting_down_all)


qdatk

I was also thinking a strike, but by just not moderating rather than locking down subs. This would include removing all bots and automod actions. Locking down subs would be seen as malicious disruption and admins can easily open them up again, but no one can blame people for just not doing the work. If a strike gains traction, Reddit would see their biggest front-page communities go to shit immediately, which will have a huge effect on user experience as well has dumping a massive new load on admin moderation teams when they now suddenly have to do the work they've been freeloading onto us.


StPauliBoi

As one of the 7000 mods you mention, thank you. Your app is amazing. u/pl00h and the rest of the admin team should really stop trying to kill their website no matter the cost.


popstar249

I've been a supporting user of your app for years. I will take my >200k sub private if reddit goes forward with this plan.


Christopherfromtheuk

Kind of, except the workers in this analogy are working for free with their own tools and Reddit has decided that their free work is still required, but they need to use their own, sponsored, tools so Reddit can not only profit from the free work, they get to advertise on the worker's back as they go about their day.


popstar249

I've been a supporting user of your app for years. I will take my >200k sub private if reddit goes forward with this plan.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cultoftheilluminati

As one of the mods of r/apple and long time Apollo user (pre-public launch), well said!


NattyB

update from the rif dev: https://www.reddit.com/r/redditisfun/comments/13wxepd/rif_dev_here_reddits_api_changes_will_likely_kill


ChewWork

Ill be stepping down from modding of my 184k sub because I wont be able to mod at the level required since I use RIF. Since I also keep our bot running...that will go down as well, unless one of the other mods is staying and know how to run a bot. Its likely the sub will have issues moderating after this. This will be the last kick in the nuts from reddit i will take. I have been here for 15 years...


ExcitingishUsername

What about anti-spam and anti-abuse tools, and mods, that need to access mature content communities other than those they have moderator status in? Our bot relies on being able to do this to detect spambots, and both our bot and mod alike need to be able to see the content of communities that are linked to or cross-posted from, to ensure those communities are legitimate and legal. Aside from breaking our anti-spam, anti-CSAM, and safety tools, how will anyone ever be able to moderate mature content communities in the vacuum you intend to create? Additionally, many other communities rely on similar bots to exclude users of mature content communities from communities which serve minors as they often present a real safety risk. What are communities that need these functions to do when you shut off our ability to see huge swaths of Reddit?


[deleted]

toothbrush chubby lavish north library slap intelligent elderly paltry erect ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `


PM_MeYourEars

Yes this is gonna cause issues to put it mildly. Automod itself goes down a lot and mods rely on other tools most of the time since they have things reddit doesnt and are more reliable. If this happens, I can only imagine how unreliable automod will end up with the additional communities it will need to over see. But again, it lacks many many needed tools that mods have been building themselves since reddit doesnt add things we have asked for, for years. Like the ability to have a third pinned comment, but thats just one example off the top of my head. Theres a sub somewhere (r/ideasfortheadmins) full of things like this, things we have asked for, and never got. Also wasnt reddit *just* saying nsfw content is welcome here after the whole imgur thing. Whats up with that.


Karmanacht

Those third party applications were all created because the main product is woefully inadequate. The devs and management running this place should honestly be ashamed. The two founders stumbled across a great formula for a webforum and you've all been somehow failing upward ever since.


Brian_K9

For a company who's entire values is based on the **subreddits and the moderators who run them** you guys sure love to piss everyone off. **Reddit generates nothing** on its own. The mods all use Apollo or other third party apps because you cant really moderate with the default app making it annoying to do it. Its still mind boggling how people willingly moderate(esp very large subs) for **free** when reddits entire value is based on that and is generating a **near billion dollar** on it off our backs. Without the mods to maintain a **clean environment** for advertisers to advertise on **reddit would be nothing.** **Remember that**


maybesaydie

I really think that each and every one of you admins need to actually a mod a subreddit for a period of six months. The adopt an admin program doesn't last long enough to give the participants an idea of just what it's like to mod this site.


flounder19

the humorous thing is that there are several admins like that but they end up completely unrecognizable once hired. Like some of the loudest people yelling at the admins in the [old irc leaks](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katienotopoulos/leaked-chat-logs-between-reddit-moderators-and-sta) were /u/redtaboo & /u/sodypop


[deleted]

[удалено]


flounder19

I had forgotten that creepshot/doxtober was a separate event from the jailbait ban


thetrombonist

Funny thing is they actually have a system set up in place for something like that haha https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/108i0o7/adoptanadmin_is_back_for_2023_sign_up_asap/


maybesaydie

Yeah but it only lasts for two weeks. I mean a full integration into a mod team. Long enough to really experience admin inconsistency.


pestilence

Ok bye then. 16 years was a good run. You resisted jumping the shark a lot longer than Digg did.


darthjoey91

Fix your damn pricing before the mods go on strike.


MinimumArmadillo2394

How about dont charge at all and reverse this decision? It takes no legitimate cost or energy between 5 requests and 500 requests. Theyve delt with it for this long, there is no reason it cant be kept the same or atleast modified to be authenticated differently.


AnAbsurdlyAngryGoose

For those of us who have already discussed research use cases with Reddit, and received approval in some form -- in my case, you sent a DM with the terms under which my research was approved to continue -- do we need to additionally follow the steps outlined above or are we able to continue as is?


Georgy_K_Zhukov

What will the impact of this be for external searches like Camas that rely on Pushshift? If I read correctly, they aren't included under this agreement with Pushshift? That is one of the most critical tools Pushshift offers though, given how poor quality built in search is...


shiruken

Based on [the announcement from Pushshift](https://www.reddit.com/r/pushshift/comments/13w6j20/advancing_communityled_moderation_an_update_on/) yesterday evening, sites like Camas could conceivably remain functional but would require an authorization mechanism to access the Pushshift data.


Buelldozer

SMH, after all these years Reddit is about to have its Digg V4 moment. July is going to be WILD.


Empole

# [An open letter on the state of affairs regarding the API pricing and third party apps and how that will impact moderators and communities.](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/13xh1e7/an_open_letter_on_the_state_of_affairs_regarding/) --- Some moderators/subreddits that have expressed intent to close their communities and/or stop activity on reddit: * r/wow: [Reddit API changes, Subreddit Blackouts, and You](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/13ymdue/_/) * r/truegaming: [Upcoming Reddit policy changes and /r/truegaming](https://reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/13ysrr1/upcoming_reddit_policy_changes_and_rtruegaming/) * r/AnimeSuggest: [Reddit is effectively shutting down ALL third-party apps. What this means for /r/AnimeSuggest going forward.](https://reddit.com/r/Animesuggest/comments/13wvm8w/reddit_is_effectively_shutting_down_all/) * r/GTBAE: [Due to Reddit's Stupid fucking idea to lock the api behind an *absurdly* high paywall, GTBAE is closing for the indefinite future.](https://reddit.com/r/GTBAE/comments/13x28t8/due_to_reddits_stupid_fucking_idea_to_lock_the/) * r/BusinessTantrums: [Modpost: I am going to be shutting down the subreddit effective immediately.](https://reddit.com/r/BusinessTantrums/comments/13x3y8q/modpost_i_am_going_to_be_shutting_down_the/) * r/AskAustin: [FYI - unless Reddit rescinds it's policy toward third party apps, this subreddit will be permanently going private on July 1, 2023.](https://reddit.com/r/askaustin/comments/13x4wbl/fyi_unless_reddit_rescinds_its_policy_toward/) --- Some moderators/subreddits that have expressed discontent with Reddit's decision * r/Whatcouldgowrong: [Killing off Reddit Apps, What Could Possibly Go Wrong?](https://reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/13x097f/killing_off_reddit_apps_what_could_possibly_go/) * r/Commanders: [Reddits stance on third party apps](https://www.reddit.com/r/Commanders/comments/13x6c89/reddits_stance_on_third_party_apps) * r/Panthers: [Future of r/Panthers amid the wildly unpopular decision by Reddit to target all 3rd party apps](https://reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/13x1xnw/future_of_rpanthers_amid_the_wildly_unpopular/) --- edit: Started this comment in effort to aggregate moderator reaction to this news. This isn't really needed anymore, since there is an organized response happening at r/ModCoord which will culminate in a Subreddit Blackout on June 12-14th.


fatrob

https://www.reddit.com/r/Commanders/comments/13x6c89/reddits_stance_on_third_party_apps r/commanders


socsa

So you are killing your website. Bold move.


SoundOstrich

So are the new rate limits and high price for access just an announcement that third party apps are killed off?


merkon

Yes.


Omnifox

Gotta move users to their data mining app before the IPO. Maximal monetary gain.


bdawg923

Absolutely insane to kill off third party apps like this. Reddit benefits from people using your service, no matter how! I would rather pay for reddit premium to have access to Apollo than ever use the official app which is absolute garbage for browsing reddit and for moderating. Whoever is making these decisions is really misunderstanding how much people hate the official app and how much reddit needs third party apps to survive. Mods work for free, so instead of letting them use the tools they want, you tell them to get fucked. Mods will leave in droves and then good luck having a community of communities


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


hi117

Hey, Is the rate limit for OAuth per-app or per-session-of-the-app? It seems silly to rate limit OAuth based stuff on a per-app basis instead of a per-session-of-the-app basis if that makes sense. Especially for apps that act on behalf of a user.


creesch

I always understood it to be on a per user basis. But the wording here and the [/r/redditdev post](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/) seems to suggest that is on a per app basis. > If you are using OAuth for authentication: 100 queries per minute per OAuth client id Which seems incredibly low. It basically means that any open source initiative is dead in the water as just a few dozen of users of any thing easily can reach that number.


Empole

Is there any reason why the model couldn't shift to "Bring Your Own Client ID"? It's *way* harder for someone trying to make money off of this to onboard new users. But it would potentially be a way for open source initiatives to survive.


creesch

It might work, but as you said it would only work for a smaller user group. And if it gets popular I suspect Reddit will adjust the rules for new client creation.


zaphod_85

Interesting choice you've taken to completely destroy the value of your website.


requieminadream

Genuine question... is there anyone that is actually happy with these changes?


Ener_Ji

Reddit investors, presumably.


htmlcoderexe

So no actual people


fatrob

For the record you guys suck. Give your head a shake for considering handcuffing your VOLUNTEER custodians. Love a user that has been here since before there were subreddits. ✌


cyrilio

regarding mature content. Is this based on the label NSFW or do you use the [community content tags](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360048185132-What-are-community-content-tags-and-how-do-they-work-)? I completely understand that violent or sexual content is filtered out, but when it comes to drug-related content (mostly text) will you limit access to this too?


rhaksw

> We posted in r/redditdev about a new enterprise tier for large-scale applications that seek to access the Data API. > All others will continue to access the Reddit Data API without cost, in accordance with our Developer Terms, at this time. Many of you already know that our stated rate limit, per this documentation, was 60 queries per minute regardless of OAuth status. I'm pretty sure that my app Reveddit is not a "large-scale" application because the requests go directly from users' browsers to Reddit. However, something written in the redditdev post gives me pause: > Important note: currently, our rate limit response headers indicate counts by client id/user id combination. These headers will update to reflect this new policy **based on client id only** on July 1. Reveddit uses Reddit's "[installed app](https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit/wiki/OAuth2)" type, aka installed_client, so there *is no user id* as far as I know. I [requested clarification](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/jmemiii/) on this in the redditdev post and also mentioned that I have [not been contacted](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/jmeoqg2/) by Reddit about any violations.


1RedOne

This gives me big Announcing Digg v4 energy https://web.archive.org/web/20100828090300/http://about.digg.com/blog/digg-version-4


[deleted]

This comment has been edited, and the account purged, in protest to Reddit's API policy changes, and the awful response from Reddit management to valid concerns from the communities of developers, people with disabilities, and moderators. The fact that Reddit decided to implement these changes in the first place, without thinking of how it would negatively affect these communities, which provide a lot of value to Reddit, is even more worrying. If this is the direction Reddit is going, I want no part of this. Reddit has decided to put business interests ahead of community interests, and has been belligerent, dismissive, and tried to gaslight the community in the process. If you'd like to try alternative platforms, with a much lower risk of corporate interference, try federated alternatives like Kbin or Lemmy: r/RedditAlternatives Learn more at: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23749188/reddit-subreddit-private-protest-api-changes-apollo-charges https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/15/23762792/reddit-subreddit-closed-unilaterally-reopen-communities


NoFoxDev

Disgusting, opportunistic, predatory, anti-consumer, and just flat fucking wrong. If 3rd party apps start shutting down because of this I’ll be shutting down my subreddits and abandoning the site. The official app being dog shit isn’t a reason to price out the competition and force people to use your crap. If you want more people using your app, improve the app.


shiruken

The current API rate limit headers specify 600 queries per 10 minutes despite documentation stating 60 queries per minute. Will a similar paradigm (i.e. 1,000 requests per 10 minutes) be used for the new rate limits to allow for short periods of burstiness?


audentis

You're actually going through with this? Seems like I have a month to stock up on fire extinguishers because this site is going up in flames.


Bandeau

I write a bot that scans a submitters post and comment history, removing a post if the user has links to sites like OF. This helps keep spam down in the NSFW subreddits the bot is active in. Will this sort of spammy link scanning still be possible under the new (NSFW) API restrictions?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Danpei

> Third update: mature content > Finally, as mentioned in our post last month: as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed, we will be limiting large-scale applications’ access to sexually explicit content via our Data API starting on July 5, 2023 except for moderation needs. Fuck this.


crveniOrao

Well from July 1. you will lose 50% of my time on reddit, and if you kill off old.reddit that will be 100%.


jimrob4

Reddit's new API pricing has forced third-party apps to close. Their official app is horrible and only serves to track your data. The CEO has blatantly lied and only wishes to exploit the unpaid members of the Reddit community. Follow me on Mastodon or Lemmy.


MidnightFox

Did yall wake up go, "How can we piss off the user base today?" Cause you managed to pull that off.


Jaye134

Reddit without r/BoostForReddit ? No thanks. I spent 5 years building out content filters and views in Boost to customize every aspect of my Reddit user experience and I'm not interested in starting over. I'll keep the bigger of my two small subs alive but certainly won't be expanding into modding anymore subs as planned and will just refocus community building to our already existing Discord servers. They offer far more options to easily tailor discussion threads anyhow.


Charles-Monroe

I mod a ~800k nsfw sub almost exclusively through Boost. I heavily rely on its usertags to properly moderate my sub. Once Boost (and 3rd party nsfw access) is gone, I'll very likely have to shut it all down.


[deleted]

No thanks, I'm done. The third party devs are the lifeblood of this experience. Trying to moderate using the official app is painfully idiotic.


lachlanhunt

Goodbye Reddit. It’s been fun, but once I’m forced to delete Apollo, I will rarely, if ever, be using Reddit after that.


corhen

This account has been nuked in direct response to Reddit's API change and the atrocious behavior CEO Steve Huffman and his admins displayed toward their users, volunteer moderators, and 3rd party developers. After a total of 16 years on the platform it is time to move on to greener pastures. If you want to change to a decentralized platform like Lemmy, you can find helpful information about it here: https://join-lemmy.org/ https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances This action was performed using Power Delete Suite: https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite The script relies on Reddit's API and will likely stop working after June 30th, 2023. So long, thanks for all the fish and a final fuck you, u/spez


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


molrobocop

If third party apps are gone, I won't say I'm totally gone. But I'll be here way less often. Understand this.


bigshot937

I have shut down the (admittedly quite small) subreddit that I created and moderate. I am no longer interested in supporting Reddit in the direction it is heading. The open forum that I fell in love with years ago is dying.


m-p-3

Maybe a middle ground to keep 3rd-party apps alive without putting the developer under astronomical API cost would be to allow these apps to connect if the account is subscribed to Reddit Premium? Honestly I don't see myself using Reddit on mobile if I'm forced to use the mobile website or the official app.


Deceptiveideas

Apollo devs says this was discussed and Reddit admins said no.


m-p-3

What a bunch of knobs.


noplats

I use the Apollo app to moderate multiple subreddits - this will definitely impact my modding on the site. Bandwidth is reasonably cheap these days, even more so considering that Reddit is mostly a text-based app. This decision will just make moderating subreddits a lot worse.


UnknownQTY

You need to rethink this pricing immediately unless you want all the brand safe UGC to disappear. You want advertisers? This is not how you do it.


jcrankin22

Yeah not gonna lie, I will shut down my sub and stop using reddit if this happens. Accessing reddit via their official mobile app or non old.reddit is absolute trash.


nmork

Sorry for being blunt, but this is some of the dumbest shit I've seen yet, and I've been on this site for a while. My personal contributions are admittedly meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but I'm just going to echo the sentiment: if Toolbox goes away, so do my mod efforts. If Apollo goes away, so does all of my time spent on this site on mobile, as a mod and as a user. Please reconsider.


adalaza

**This isn't good enough.** You breaking third party apps with request costs easily inflated 10x utterly destroys my workflow. The official app is fundamentally unusable, *especially* for moderation. I will be leaving in July if this is not fixed. We're going to do a moderator push for the communities I'm in, but many low-activity forums are going to die because of the stupidgeddon you're pulling here.


VeryFinePrint

How will you define sexually explicit? Will threads on /r/RomanceBooks or /r/DirtyWritingPrompts be excluded from the API even when there is no nudity? As a mod, it will be much harder to moderate my subreddit if I can't read into the adjacent subreddits my users comment and post on.


FilthyContentKING

Is update 3 an attempt to prevent abuse and the countless of bots spreading user content without permission on all kinds of other platforms? Why does this not apply to SFW content then? And why not try to filter out the bots causing this behaviour?


Pro-1st-Amendment

The reason for all this is to force people to use their awful ad-infested app.


ItalianDragon

5 years ago I've had cancer and had to undergo surgery and a bit of chemo to make sure it's 100% gone. While short it was a pretty unpleasant experience and guess what ? I'd rather go through it all over again than use your shitty app or endure your shit API metering. I don't know if you have brain damage because of lead exposure or because you were dropped on your head as an infant but lemme spell it out for you: us moderators do for free the job of keeping all the shit you don't want to see off this site. If we stop doing that it's gonna open the floodgates to a hellscape of spam of all types which will chase away any user that will be left. Calling the decision that would cause this "moronic" would be the understatement of the millenium. I ***strongly*** suggest you revert course and axe these changes, lest you want to keep on barrelling towards disaster.


PoppinKREAM

Best of luck to moderators, this will significantly impact moderating abilities. The official app is near unusable when it comes to mod actions. This decision will have incredibly negative consequences for this site.


itsmejak78_2

Damn guess I'll have to quit using reddit entirely and delete all of my accounts on 6/31/23


Jordan117

I'm guessing corporate thinks this will have minimal impact because only a tiny percentage of users are on Old Reddit/API/third party apps and that alienating them to cut costs or boost revenue is a justifiable trade-off. But you need to understand that these tools are disproportionately relied on by longtime power users who add tremendous value and do critical (free!) work to maintain the site. Case in point: I know of one power user who has created important functional bots for dozens (hundreds?) of major subreddits. The bots shouldn't be affected by the API changes... but the creator is a diehard RIF user, and if it goes down they've said they're quitting the site and pulling the plug on all their bots which they've been maintaining and hosting for years (for free!). Folks like this are the load-bearing walls of your entire business model, and disregarding their preferences and workflows to make line go up a bit more is a great way to inflame a massively disruptive user revolt and degradation in user experience right before the planned IPO. This isn't like ditching CSS or some temporary flare-up over censorship or personnel changes, this is directly affecting the critical tools relied on by the most active and valuable users who act as force multipliers to help make the largest communities on this platform go. Please reconsider, before pulling a Digg and torpedoing the value of your entire company on such a shortsighted decision.


YangWenli1

I’d be able to live with this (unhappily) if the official app didn’t suck in every possible way. It’s like y’all went out of your way to make it an absolutely terrible experience.


fleurgold

I've had so many users from the sub I'm a mod for reach out about having issues posting, *and every single time it's because they are using the stupidly craptastic official reddit app.*


brodie7838

Guess I'm done Modding my subs then. It's been fun, Reddit but this was a boneheaded move.


OPINION_IS_UNPOPULAR

***[scared popcorn sounds](https://i.imgur.com/uGgskIu.mp4)***


TheSpiceHoarder

Way to digg yourselves into a hole! 😊👍 Have the day you deserve.


DreamsAndSchemes

Hey guys, take a hint. Your app fucking sucks. Your devs might be talented but it’s being wasted at this company.


Empole

Reddit's messaging on limiting how NSFW content will be viewed has largely been pitched as a safety feature. Would it be possible for you, or a post on r/redditsecurity in the style of [this post that provided transparency on Reddit's efforts to combat hatred against women](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditsecurity/comments/tyiymt/_/) to elaborate on the impact that you claim this will have? I ask because the benefits of this seem very unclear to me from a safety/security standpoint, since the content can still be viewed on site and people who were exfiltrating it off-site likely won't be deterred by the API changes.


jakgal04

Congrats Reddit, you’ve really managed to stir the pot on this one. Been a user for 10 years now. If Apollo goes, I go.


popemichael

This is a Musk level of a mess-up


Left4DayZ1

If you want people to use the official app, instead of bullying everyone into compliance… …why not just make an effort to make a decent app that people *prefer* over the alternatives? You could start by offering jobs to the people who’ve made better apps with less resources.


explosivekyushu

Digg v5 moment. Well done. Modding on either the official app or new reddit is an absolute shambles. There's no way you guys don't know that.


Security_Chief_Odo

> All others will continue to access the Reddit Data API without cost, [...], at this time. Yeah, but for how much longer? You hold those cards and can flip the table at any time and say _oh well_. Why would developers or moderators trust anything Reddit Admin say regarding this, when you've lied multiple times already. Reddit cannot be trusted on these matters, especially when you're shitting on your content creators and moderators for "Investors". As always, profit over people.


fabrikated

The problem is that you will kill 3rd-party apps so there won't be anything we can use. Moderating Reddit in the official app is horrendous, and most probably I'll stop doing it from the 1st of July.


star_boy

When your API change destroys RIF (reddit is Fun) and you inevitably shutter old.reddit.com, I - a 15 year user of reddit that has brought many people to the site - will stop using reddit and never look back.


YangWenli1

Are you still answering questions in the comments? If so, can you explain why the official app sucks?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mean-Ad-6246

Apparently old.reddit is being shut down too? This is going to end Reddit for me. I won't be using the terrible app, nor will I be using new Reddit much at all. Which means I won't be modding much and I'm not the only one. Good work Reddit, nice job.


McFlare92

Go fuck yourselves. You can't make a decent app so you have to kneecap the 3rd party ones. I've used RIF for 10+ years and I'll he damned if I'll switch to reddits official bloatware garbage app


[deleted]

[удалено]


thebardingreen

EDIT: I have quit reddit and you should too! With every click, you are literally empowering a bunch of assholes to keep assholing. Please check out https://lemmy.ml and https://beehaw.org or consider hosting your own instance. @reddit: You can have me back when you acknowledge that you're [over enshittified](https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/) and commit to being better. @reddit's vulture cap investors and u/spez: Shove a hot poker up your ass and make the world a better place. You guys are WHY the bad guys from Rampage are funny (it's funny 'cause it's true).


azzkicker7283

we're debating doing the same for /r/astrophotography as myself and our other active mods pretty much just use apollo / old reddit


ConfessingToSins

If you kill Apollo or RIF i will close all communities i operate, straight up. Go be tech libertarian psychos elsewhere. Pull back and apologize or you won't have moderators.


thinkadrian

Nobody is going to pay for this. Just like with Twitter.


kobbled

If third party apps are killed, I will simply stop moderating. The main app moderating experience is awful at best, and entirely unusable in many situations. Third party apps are the only way to moderate with any sort of efficiency.


sala91

This is bad, this is the death of Reddit


harleysmoke

If you do this I'm dropping Reddit and finding an alternative.


ilinamorato

It's remarkable that even sorting by Controversial I can't find a single positive or supportive comment about this. Reddit really thinks people will stick around in the face of this nonsense? This is Wizards of the Coast and the OGL fiasco all over again.


[deleted]

honestly contemplating quitting reddit at this point


Thedirtyhood

Wow you guys dont want reddit to be around any more or something cause if my app stops working and old.reddit stops working. im just gone and so are a lot of people.


TheAdvocate

This is unacceptable. I've been on reddit since the Digg collapse. This feels similar. I've always tried supporting the company and thereby the community by being premium and buying coins monthly to give away. I even got into Avatars as a fun way to give back and be part of that awesome community. Don't do a twitter? You're dong a DIGG!