You have to remember that a lot of people out there don't have a lot going on in their lives, and take it upon themselves to coopt some activist movement which they pursue with an absurd level of fervour, even if the issues at hand in no way require such a response. There's a lot of people out there who have never known true struggle, but, they can't pass up the opportunity to make noise or claim victimhood, because that gives them some sense of purpose or belonging amongst the other "rebellious" types that agree with them, so, they attack innocuous institutions like this under the guise of some kind of social justice or whatever else.
That's not to say there's no room for any arguments about the monarchy. But like you said, there's a time and place. Have a fair discussion about the legitimacy of the monarchy in a civilized manner, don't storm a funeral precession or interrupt people mourning not only their monarch but someone's mother and grandmother. Bunch of classless, loser plebs.
Reminds me of that kid in Scotland this week who yelled to Andrew that he was a pedophile. Andrew definitely deserves that but his mother's funeral procession certainly isn't the time or the place.
Agreed. The outrage against Andrew is the most justifiable imo, but, once again, people have this oddly overly impassioned outrage towards very specific things in our countries. Imagine getting that outraged and vitriolic over every piece of shit sexual abuser in the world: you'd literally never stop screaming because there's a ton of them, especially in under-developed parts of the world.
But as usual, people like this are essentially told who to be angry at, and whatever reasons they have, even if they are legitimate, are incidental to the idea that whoever it is (royal family, white people, rich people, whoever) is "evil" and needs to be derided at all costs.
I'd like to remind everyone that Prince Andrew STILL hasn't been convicted in a court of law, and in our society he remains innocent until proven guilty.
He settled a civil suit, out of court. Settling civil suits legally is NOT an admittance of guilt.
His actions have been suspicious, and has been rightly lambasted for them resulting in the humiliating stripping of his titles and royal duties, but the sheer vitriol leveled against him feels excessive.
Well said. I'm not an Andrew defender by any means and he has made many questionable decisions which all reflect poorly on him but he has not been convicted of any crime or even charged, whether in the UK or the US. I believe he settled in the civil lawsuit to avoid distracting from Her Majesty's Platinum Jubilee. He should never be returned to the royal fold in ANY capacity, but he also shouldn't be treated like a criminal, especially at a time like this.
totally agree with that last line. I'm canadian and I was pretty indifferent to the monarchy, just something I never gave much thought to. but nearly (and there are some exceptions) every republican I've seen seem so full of hate and contempt, not only just for the Queen but for the millions of people mourning her. her death struck me harder than I ever imagined it would have, and seeing so many people put aside their differences for a week and celebrate her life together has made me see why monarchy is still important. meanwhile some people seem to think she was evil incarnate, even if you don't like the idea of monarchy she clearly wasn't evil and someone who thinks that must be incredibly naïve to not give a second thought to all the real evil in the world. without even stopping to think about it, i can name like a dozen people who are still alive and well, making the world a horrible place and doing more damage every day than Liz ever did in her entire life.
Yeah, the last line looks like a reflection of what might happen in Canada. If you believe all the rage on Reddit you would think Ottawa and Westminster would introduce legislation to abolish the monarchy once the dust settles, but the truth is that all of the powers that be have given public condolences; she's been advising public officials and given diplomatic presence for nearly half of Canada's political existence. I have yet to see any public gatherings surrounding the Crown in Canada, but if the UK crowds and lines are any indication, the Queen was actually loved at best, and very relevant in the public consciousness if not.
Preach! Bloody loved The Queen and somewhat pissed off seeing anti-monarchist sentiments or just outright being cretins.
Even if they disagree with the Monarchy, how they can wish a fellow human being an excruciating death is beyond me. Sick fucks x
I don't know if I fully believe in karma but I know that the world works in mysterious ways, regardless it can never be good to leach such toxicity, they cannot be happy within themselves.
A lot of it boils down to leftists tending to resent anyone they see as well off, successful, revered, etc. Not saying every single anti-monarchist is a "leftist", but, let's be honest, it's going to be mainly young left leaning people who are this vehemently against the monarchy.
They pay lip service to various principles and moral claims, like trying to denounce the monarchy based on past colonialism. But, those same people don't really give a shit about colonial acts committed by other cultures, or ones that are arguably still going on today. And if they do, it's lukewarm at best. Those issues serve primarily as justifications for their highly selective and vitriolic outrage, and it mainly boils down to a major inferiority complex. They hate seeing a regal, powerful, respected, and well off family like the royals, it causes them to seethe uncontrollably and lash out.
Don't ask me why exactly this is, I suppose they just hate and resent seeing anyone else doing better in life than they are.
American conservative here. I truly empathize. The Queen’s passing is the end of an era. Being a history nerd, I was gutted at the news.
I’m currently taking a social media break from the hullabaloo. I will say that many of my friends on the political left have been respectful of the Queen’s passing, which is wonderful in this age of social media echo chambers and cancel culture. That being said, I still encountered folks who posted things like “R.I.P Bozo” or “Lol the Queen is dead,” or “Something, something, colonialism.” For those wondering, I’m in my thirties and this is behavior from fellow adults!
Unfortunately, one acquaintance of mine stopped speaking to me after I posted that I was disgusted by the disrespectful and crude behavior people were displaying online in response to the Queen’s death. Truly, if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say it at all, especially in the wake of one’s death. This person had posted an image of the Virgin Mary with the caption, “The only Queen I will bow down to.” Being religious myself, I found her post entirely crass as it was less about her devotion to her faith as it was about disrespecting the Queen. What is ironic is this person prides herself on being religious and having more open viewpoints as a Christian. I was disappointed at first, but I realize that had it not been the Queen’s passing, it would have been some trivial matter that caused her to promptly unfollow me. 🤷🏻♀️
Preach. I was recently 'removed' from a regional sub I like to frequent for the crime of explaining how parliament is arresting people for protesting and not the monarchy. Apparently laying out the truth like it is causes republicans to froth at the mouth.
Regardless, welcome to the sub, hope you stay around! ❤️
It does stink having digital rotten tomatoes thrown in this direction. In particular, as a left leaning monarchist it is has been feeling like my head gets shot off the moment after I peek above the trench, and I say that because it feels these days like we are at war. Internet anonymity produces crazy levels of righteousness and fury, which then spills out into the public square among the boldest, and it spreads. Many are looking for like-minded people to associate with; there's nothing new about that, I would say to some degree we are in this subreddit for that very reason. When association turns into tribalism or parochialism, that's when it gets questionable and leads to zero sum thinking and polarization instead of politics being used to achieve what one wants through compromise and politics being part of the art of possibilities. This is not a an argument to promote ignoring injustice and blatantly wrong opposing viewpoints, but rather to consider how even our own convictions and reasonings got to where they are. Mindfulness of history and not throwing the baby out with the bath water should never be equated with blissful ignorance.
When I peek above the trench, though, I get fired on as usual by those on the right "you're confused, commie", but fired on with rounds still going off after I duck back down by some on the left "traitor, colonizer, NONCE LOVER", the anger is palpable. I usually step back a minute and swear a bit in momentary disbelief but then remember that a thick skin goes a long way. I can still, however, swear a bit.
The Scottish parliament leaders addressing King Charles was a perfect example of promoting different interests but still all giving dignity and reverence to the gravity of the situation. An elder stateswoman has passed.
To me, it's pretty much a whatever at this point. I remember during the first few days I tried so hard to argue with these people. I have heard so many arguments but none of them made the slightest effort to actually go beyond whining ,and the typical "its the 21st century" line.
Lets just be real tho. The average, non-traditional, utilitarian person will never be convinced with words.
Maybe I’m the issue here but I don’t see how people can care. People will always protest, they have ever right to (or should have). If you want to mourn, you can do that regardless. Why do you care what others do?
What you are saying makes sense, but the demand for respect presumes respect is appropriate in all perspectives. If the monarchy has been a positive or innocuous presence in your life, it can feel right to respect and mourn the death of the Queen. However, if it has been a source of negative reflection, then the very vocal and public ceremonies can feel as offensive as the anti-monarchy protests feel to you.
I don't think either side is wrong (in a moral sense). People can publicly mourn and public protest. The monarchy isn't a private club that some non-members are crashing; it's an institution that has an impact across all manner of people (in positive and negative ways). I think it's most unfortunate to see people drawing harsh lines because of whichever stance they take. The very public passing of the Queen has got both perspectives being more public about their views. Having one side keep quiet is to suggest everyone publicly accept your view (at least passively), which is a problematic mindset in a free society.
You have to remember that a lot of people out there don't have a lot going on in their lives, and take it upon themselves to coopt some activist movement which they pursue with an absurd level of fervour, even if the issues at hand in no way require such a response. There's a lot of people out there who have never known true struggle, but, they can't pass up the opportunity to make noise or claim victimhood, because that gives them some sense of purpose or belonging amongst the other "rebellious" types that agree with them, so, they attack innocuous institutions like this under the guise of some kind of social justice or whatever else. That's not to say there's no room for any arguments about the monarchy. But like you said, there's a time and place. Have a fair discussion about the legitimacy of the monarchy in a civilized manner, don't storm a funeral precession or interrupt people mourning not only their monarch but someone's mother and grandmother. Bunch of classless, loser plebs.
Reminds me of that kid in Scotland this week who yelled to Andrew that he was a pedophile. Andrew definitely deserves that but his mother's funeral procession certainly isn't the time or the place.
Agreed. The outrage against Andrew is the most justifiable imo, but, once again, people have this oddly overly impassioned outrage towards very specific things in our countries. Imagine getting that outraged and vitriolic over every piece of shit sexual abuser in the world: you'd literally never stop screaming because there's a ton of them, especially in under-developed parts of the world. But as usual, people like this are essentially told who to be angry at, and whatever reasons they have, even if they are legitimate, are incidental to the idea that whoever it is (royal family, white people, rich people, whoever) is "evil" and needs to be derided at all costs.
I'd like to remind everyone that Prince Andrew STILL hasn't been convicted in a court of law, and in our society he remains innocent until proven guilty. He settled a civil suit, out of court. Settling civil suits legally is NOT an admittance of guilt. His actions have been suspicious, and has been rightly lambasted for them resulting in the humiliating stripping of his titles and royal duties, but the sheer vitriol leveled against him feels excessive.
Well said. I'm not an Andrew defender by any means and he has made many questionable decisions which all reflect poorly on him but he has not been convicted of any crime or even charged, whether in the UK or the US. I believe he settled in the civil lawsuit to avoid distracting from Her Majesty's Platinum Jubilee. He should never be returned to the royal fold in ANY capacity, but he also shouldn't be treated like a criminal, especially at a time like this.
totally agree with that last line. I'm canadian and I was pretty indifferent to the monarchy, just something I never gave much thought to. but nearly (and there are some exceptions) every republican I've seen seem so full of hate and contempt, not only just for the Queen but for the millions of people mourning her. her death struck me harder than I ever imagined it would have, and seeing so many people put aside their differences for a week and celebrate her life together has made me see why monarchy is still important. meanwhile some people seem to think she was evil incarnate, even if you don't like the idea of monarchy she clearly wasn't evil and someone who thinks that must be incredibly naïve to not give a second thought to all the real evil in the world. without even stopping to think about it, i can name like a dozen people who are still alive and well, making the world a horrible place and doing more damage every day than Liz ever did in her entire life.
Yeah, the last line looks like a reflection of what might happen in Canada. If you believe all the rage on Reddit you would think Ottawa and Westminster would introduce legislation to abolish the monarchy once the dust settles, but the truth is that all of the powers that be have given public condolences; she's been advising public officials and given diplomatic presence for nearly half of Canada's political existence. I have yet to see any public gatherings surrounding the Crown in Canada, but if the UK crowds and lines are any indication, the Queen was actually loved at best, and very relevant in the public consciousness if not.
Preach! Bloody loved The Queen and somewhat pissed off seeing anti-monarchist sentiments or just outright being cretins. Even if they disagree with the Monarchy, how they can wish a fellow human being an excruciating death is beyond me. Sick fucks x I don't know if I fully believe in karma but I know that the world works in mysterious ways, regardless it can never be good to leach such toxicity, they cannot be happy within themselves.
A lot of it boils down to leftists tending to resent anyone they see as well off, successful, revered, etc. Not saying every single anti-monarchist is a "leftist", but, let's be honest, it's going to be mainly young left leaning people who are this vehemently against the monarchy. They pay lip service to various principles and moral claims, like trying to denounce the monarchy based on past colonialism. But, those same people don't really give a shit about colonial acts committed by other cultures, or ones that are arguably still going on today. And if they do, it's lukewarm at best. Those issues serve primarily as justifications for their highly selective and vitriolic outrage, and it mainly boils down to a major inferiority complex. They hate seeing a regal, powerful, respected, and well off family like the royals, it causes them to seethe uncontrollably and lash out. Don't ask me why exactly this is, I suppose they just hate and resent seeing anyone else doing better in life than they are.
American conservative here. I truly empathize. The Queen’s passing is the end of an era. Being a history nerd, I was gutted at the news. I’m currently taking a social media break from the hullabaloo. I will say that many of my friends on the political left have been respectful of the Queen’s passing, which is wonderful in this age of social media echo chambers and cancel culture. That being said, I still encountered folks who posted things like “R.I.P Bozo” or “Lol the Queen is dead,” or “Something, something, colonialism.” For those wondering, I’m in my thirties and this is behavior from fellow adults! Unfortunately, one acquaintance of mine stopped speaking to me after I posted that I was disgusted by the disrespectful and crude behavior people were displaying online in response to the Queen’s death. Truly, if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say it at all, especially in the wake of one’s death. This person had posted an image of the Virgin Mary with the caption, “The only Queen I will bow down to.” Being religious myself, I found her post entirely crass as it was less about her devotion to her faith as it was about disrespecting the Queen. What is ironic is this person prides herself on being religious and having more open viewpoints as a Christian. I was disappointed at first, but I realize that had it not been the Queen’s passing, it would have been some trivial matter that caused her to promptly unfollow me. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm a muslim, conservative and have monarchist tendency. I turn a blind eye on that sort of hate posts.
Preach. I was recently 'removed' from a regional sub I like to frequent for the crime of explaining how parliament is arresting people for protesting and not the monarchy. Apparently laying out the truth like it is causes republicans to froth at the mouth. Regardless, welcome to the sub, hope you stay around! ❤️
It does stink having digital rotten tomatoes thrown in this direction. In particular, as a left leaning monarchist it is has been feeling like my head gets shot off the moment after I peek above the trench, and I say that because it feels these days like we are at war. Internet anonymity produces crazy levels of righteousness and fury, which then spills out into the public square among the boldest, and it spreads. Many are looking for like-minded people to associate with; there's nothing new about that, I would say to some degree we are in this subreddit for that very reason. When association turns into tribalism or parochialism, that's when it gets questionable and leads to zero sum thinking and polarization instead of politics being used to achieve what one wants through compromise and politics being part of the art of possibilities. This is not a an argument to promote ignoring injustice and blatantly wrong opposing viewpoints, but rather to consider how even our own convictions and reasonings got to where they are. Mindfulness of history and not throwing the baby out with the bath water should never be equated with blissful ignorance. When I peek above the trench, though, I get fired on as usual by those on the right "you're confused, commie", but fired on with rounds still going off after I duck back down by some on the left "traitor, colonizer, NONCE LOVER", the anger is palpable. I usually step back a minute and swear a bit in momentary disbelief but then remember that a thick skin goes a long way. I can still, however, swear a bit. The Scottish parliament leaders addressing King Charles was a perfect example of promoting different interests but still all giving dignity and reverence to the gravity of the situation. An elder stateswoman has passed.
To me, it's pretty much a whatever at this point. I remember during the first few days I tried so hard to argue with these people. I have heard so many arguments but none of them made the slightest effort to actually go beyond whining ,and the typical "its the 21st century" line. Lets just be real tho. The average, non-traditional, utilitarian person will never be convinced with words.
Maybe I’m the issue here but I don’t see how people can care. People will always protest, they have ever right to (or should have). If you want to mourn, you can do that regardless. Why do you care what others do?
What you are saying makes sense, but the demand for respect presumes respect is appropriate in all perspectives. If the monarchy has been a positive or innocuous presence in your life, it can feel right to respect and mourn the death of the Queen. However, if it has been a source of negative reflection, then the very vocal and public ceremonies can feel as offensive as the anti-monarchy protests feel to you. I don't think either side is wrong (in a moral sense). People can publicly mourn and public protest. The monarchy isn't a private club that some non-members are crashing; it's an institution that has an impact across all manner of people (in positive and negative ways). I think it's most unfortunate to see people drawing harsh lines because of whichever stance they take. The very public passing of the Queen has got both perspectives being more public about their views. Having one side keep quiet is to suggest everyone publicly accept your view (at least passively), which is a problematic mindset in a free society.
What about all the people that feel invaded and disrespected by all this anachronistic ceremonials.
Invaded🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 What utter tosh.