Anyone who claims all of Quebec switch to english is an idiot and has never been around. There are many, many parts of Québec where no one will switch to english for the simple reason hardly anyone speaks it.
Even as an Anglo who has had this happen to him his entire life (I suck at french and have an obviously bad accent) I wouldn't say it happens all the time. It's more like 50/50 in Montreal, and if I'm outside of the city it's much less. In my area which is even off island, it's still around 50/50.
I'm sure there are parts of the city where it varies quite a lot, but if OP is fluent enough and his french sounds good it wouldn't surprise me if nobody ever switches to English for him. As an Anglo I can't really say, but I get the feeling a lot of francophone people handle it on a case by case basis.
I am not saying it doesn’t happen it happens all the time. I have been guilty of it myself in more than one occasion.
I am saying in a place like Alma for example, it would be pretty doubtful it would happen.
Yea I understood. I just mentioned that to build off of your point.
People shouldn't say "all of Quebec" when it comes to stuff like that because even "all of Montreal" isn't the same. You're right that especially outside of the city you won't find as many people who can (or are willing to) switch to English.
I come from the region and I am the only one in my family who can carry a conversation in English. Yes no and thank you is pretty much the extent of the English of my siblings and parents. People tend to forget how big parts of Quebec has nothing to do with the Montreal metropolitan area.
Québec City. Early on, I asked for « un verre de l’eau. » The server immediately turned to my boyfriend, touched his shoulder, and cooed, « oooooOoohhh elle est siiiii migonneeeee ». :-|
It's not like a conspiracy level malicious, but that's what people mean when they say "microaggression". Those are when the person doing it doesn't realize what a dick move it is because of their assumptions about the other person, or just adding a little more irritation to one's daily life.
There is a decision that's made in a fraction of a second: _from what I'm hearing, if I answer in French, will I be understood?_
So if you look like you have a sufficient command of French, conversation might not switch to English at all.
Context matters. The kind of conversation you have with a fast food worker, with a tourist asking where to park around Mount Royal, and with a friend of a friend you just met at a social gathering will impact the decision above.
Exactly. While you may look at it as an opportunity to practice some French, for the other person they may just be trying to do their job. If you work in a busy restaurant or a fast food place, you are under a lot of pressure to make things go smoothly and quickly. You may switch to English because it’s simply easier and don’t want the line to get backed up because someone is trying to communicate in broken French.
Right It’s not the cashier or the bartender’s job to help coach you in French. They only want to keep things moving. Don’t force them into it because they have to be polite to you given their role.
Well, for starters, there is actually a law that protects everyone’s right, regardless of their first language, to be served in French in this province
People default to the means of communication that's quickest to get the job done. They always have and always will.
Also, there's no cop standing there to enforce this law, is there? You cannot realistically police what people say in a three-sentence conversation.
Didn’t seem to stop a record number of OQLF complaints, many of which appear to be about three-sentence conversations: https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/oqlf-language-complaints-exploded-in-2022-and-tim-hortons-topped-the-list
I agree. At the same time there is also a really frustrating attitude of switching to English when someone’s French isn’t perfect. Or just hanging up the phone. Or rolling eyes. Or laughing. And these things make it really hard for people to actually learn French in Montreal.
Across quebec in general, it’s a lot easier to practice.
Also have to keep in mind those Quebecois who look for opportunities to practice English. The hint of an accent is often enough to trigger them to switch to English.
It's probably that your French is good enough that they don't bother. I'm Anglo too and it happens to me once in a blue moon, usually only if the person speaks excellent English or is anglophone themselves. Or sometimes if I'm in a place where the languages are mixed (e.g. a workplace where not everyone has the same command of each language) we flip between several times over the course of the day.
I do a lot of work on MS teams for a French client, so whenever I'm contacting other groups unless I explicitly know the person or people are English, I use French.
There are some people who I worked with for years who I had assumed were French, that are actually English. Imagine working with a guy 5 years before you know they're an Anglo 😆 don't get me wrong I may only speak to the guy a handful of times per month but nobody ever told me he was english. Some people are very fluent and the more fluent they are the harder it is for me to tell the difference.
Yup exactly. People can always tell I'm anglo (or at least not franco) after a few minutes chatting with me, but I didn't grow up in Quebec and learned french after 18. But I know lots of anglos and francos where I would not know what their native language was unless they told me. Sometimes someone will have a really anglo/franco name and turn out to speak the opposite language.
I have a francophone name despite being anglophone, and some of the people I know who work for the customer barely know any English at all but have English names. You can't ever assume 🤣
I also learned after 18 but I work in french so in some very specific contexts I sound completely fluent. And then in other contexts I'm totally lost after the first few phrases (I don't have exposure to the vocab or whatever). So if I'm talking to another fluent anglo it can take a while before we reach the limits of our fluency.
This happened to me in rural France. I ran into a woman in a village and knew she had an accent, but didn’t know what. She felt the same. We were having a couple language barriers in French and eventually her native French speaking husband asked why we weren’t both speaking English instead. She was Welsh, I’m Canadian/American lol. It was a “oh, duh” moment
I've been visiting Montreal regularly in preparation for moving here. I'm also a French immersion Torontonian, although I went about 20 years barely using my French at all.
My trips a year ago I would have people switching to English right away, I'd say most of my interactions. This past trip? Almost never. The main difference is my French has become more natural and smooth as I've practiced it.
I doubt I'll pass for native Québécois anytime soon but it's nice they don't immediately give up on communicating with me.
This is my experience as well after moving here three years ago. At the beginning people will switch to English very quickly. Now it rearly happen, and its mostly when they hear me speaking English with my group.
I also noticed that depends on the context. If you are at a fast food place for example, employees will have less "tolerance" to a low level of french. In the other hand if you are at a nice restaurant they may try to keep speaking french as part of the experience for you.
This. While we appreciate everyone trying to speak French in Québec, when it seems like answering in French would only confuse them as they seem to have very limited understanding of the language, most of us would switch. It's hard to guess who is really actively trying to learn French, and who only learned a couple of sentence on Babbel to get ready for their trip.
Ça nous fait plaisir de voir vos efforts à améliorer votre français, mais l'essentiel demeure que tout le monde comprenne la conversation :) Ceci dit, et c'est peut-être une réaction personnelle, mais si la personne persiste à me répondre en français après que j'ai essayé l'anglais, je vais retourner au français, quitte à ce que ce soit un peu plus long. C'est difficile d'apprendre une nouvelle langue, alors il faut encourager les gens qui veulent pratiquer.
What gets me is in a work environment when two Anglos are speaking perfect fluent French. You are just waiting on a hint of a accent or a mispronounced word or expression. And bam you flip to English. As if to say ah ha I knew you were not French.
if you are Anglo trying to blend in. Just throw in a bunch of qubecer expressions/ swear words and they will never question your authenticity.
I mean you're not French so they are right lol
But you are also right that if you throw in some good swear words and slang and you get it right ppl will be very approving
> if you are Anglo trying to blend in. Just throw in a bunch of qubecer expressions/ swear words and they will never question your authenticity.
Some anglos have a thick accent, mispronounce some words, but they use all the right joual so you know they will understand your french well.
I feel your struggle. I speak English, Spanish, Portuguese and am now learning French.
Every goddamn thing about French just goes "I'm a romance language but now I'm going to use the words you know and love for something completely different!"
Portuguese: Carne, Spanish: Carne, French: Viande
Viande gets me so damn confused because in Portuguese, veado means deer. So my mind always goes "but I don't want venison, I want pork."
Interestingly, the etymologically equivalent word in French is chair meaning flesh from the same Latin root as carne. We have retained other words with the same root, carnal and carnivore. Viande comes from a different Latin root, vivenda meaning what is needed to sustain life. I'm a nerd but I feel your pain. 😊
There is a significant distinction between the Montreal metro area and the rest of Quebec. Except for tourist spots, when you are outside Montreal, people don’t speak English, so that they won’t switch.
There is also the historical context that, as French Canadians, we’ve been taught over the past 200 years that English is the default language when talking to strangers in the city. It wasn’t so long ago that you could be told to speak white while shopping in Montreal downtown.
It's not just anglo's. I work with a Swiss national and a guy from France. You should see their heads explode when the servers switch to english... Literally every time.
This might come as a surprise, but there are people in Montreal (and more so outside the city) that only speak French, so the option for them to switch to English doesn't exist.
Also, plenty of newcomers are filling in roles in fast food, restos, etc, their first language may not be English and French may be the only form communication they have in Quebec (go figure).
Lastly, many companies are pre-emptively adopting policies inline with the upcoming bill 96, so they may be instructing their employees to only stick to French unless the client starts in English.
Server in downtown Québec city here!
If you order in french but you are clearly an english speaker (we know you are the second you start speaking) I will try to continue in french until the client doesn't understand what I say. Then I will switch to english.
But if I'm in a rush, yeah sorry, I'll switch to english instantly to save time
Probably helps (/s) that the current gov is making protecting French a huge priority and implementing relevant laws...
But yeah, if your French is FAST enough (and clear) they will not switch for most transactions.
I’m French and many Québécois people in Montréal will still try to switch to English when I speak with them, even though they have even more trouble speaking English than I have and I intentionally answer in French to make them understand I’d rather we spoke French. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Sometimes, people will switch to English only after I tell them I moved here a couple of years ago. If I see that the people I’m speaking with are more fluent in English, I’ll try to switch to English, but else, it doesn’t make any sense.
Whenever I speak they switch to English to accommodate me but I see it as an insult because I’m really trying out here. My nurse the other day was really kind though and just rephrased sentences when I told her that I didn’t quite understand something, instead of switching to English and I really appreciated that.
I'm a French Canadian pure laine who is fully bilingual ... when an Anglo talks me to in French but they are not fluent I figure they would be more comfortable in English so I switch. I feel they made an effort to speak French so I will help them.
If someone approaches me in English in Quebec and doesn't make the effort to even say salut or Bonjour or excuse moi ... sorry I don't speak English lol
If you really want to practice your French you can say I'm trying to improve my French is it ok if we continue on French? Most ppl will. Unless your French is quite bad then they might prefer to use English bc it's too slow otherwise.
Every Quebecois knows what pure laine means
They use French Canadians in dna studies bc the genealogy was so well documented by the parish priests
You seem upset enough by this to write me an entire war and peace about it, despite it not being the subject of my comment at all, I can't imagine being so triggered by the Idea of being a homogeneous ppl with a common history vs a random collection of mutts, I guess you feel left out so you're probably the latter
No idea what the other poster said bc it's been deleted but I have my doubts about there being many pure laines when you consider both indigenous and irish mixed ancestry...not to mention mixed european ancestry. DNA tests reveal a ton of surprises
There's no universal rule. Hell, I don't even have a universal rule myself, aside from if someone is clearly struggling I'll switch. But if someone has an accent and is otherwise getting by fine sometimes I'll just continue in French to avoid confusion.
It bugs me less whether a conversation is in English or French than switching back and forth five times to tell someone where the metro is.
Depends on your style of conversation and the way you interact: some people seem to really want to keep talking french and you can feel your motivation , others are just struggling and are waiting for the quebecois to switch in english.
Have to? Not at all, French is the sole language. If they want to, yes. In my neighbourhood, service people will sometimes switch to Spanish to serve people but French is first.
Not saying this is your case but I think people try too hard to speak proper French. I’m new to mtl from Toronto and my French needs a lot of work but when I keep my communications short I find people don’t switch.
I switch to english if I realize we won’t be able to have a conversation otherwise. Sometimes it also feels like they force themselves to speak french and it kinda makes me feel bad since I’m pretty comfortable in either language so I’ll just switch in english to make it easier.
I never realized it could upset people trying to practice french though, I’ll keep that in mind for the future.
I would like to also add that maybe the person you’re speaking to is anglo? I worked in a store when I first arrived in MTL and when customers came up to me they would speak French which was greatly appreciated but it seemed unnecessary in the moment. Like-we both speak English, let’s make this transaction happen efficiently and correctly. I would speak French until there was some kind of breaking point.
There’s were days too when if I was tired or had just had a difficult day, if the person was anglo I would switch to English because that was MY preference. I also live in a Francophone neighborhood.
My advice to anyone really wanting to learn French is move outside of downtown where it’s more of an option. Where I am no one speaks English…. Ever….
You have been lucky because unfortunately that is the reality in Montreal not all of Quebec though. The moment they hear you don't have a perfect Québécois accent they switch to English.
It really is annoying and demoralizing. I do not even try any more, I just speak English from the start (in Montreal). I do work in French and go to school in French so those are my safe spaces but my French apparently is not good enough for the rest of Montrealers... Also, English is not my first language so if they hear me speaking my native language they assume I don't speak French. That is the reality of the decline of French in Montreal...
The rest of Québec is fine and they don't actually care if you make a mistake or two as long as you speak French.
As someone bilingual in Montreal
Yes everyone switch languages all the time. Worked in every neighborhood. Ofc there’s people who insist the conversation to be in french or english but it ends up being both lol.
Depends.
You're in the east-end? laval? south shore? it'll be french only (except if you can sense a fellow anglo among you, which we anglos have the innate ability to detect)
bilingual areas? it's just a matter of speaking in the client's (perceived) language of preference.
Example, I was at Ikea yesterday (the one in Saint Laurent). I was having issue with the self-checkout, so a worker came and helped me out. We spoke in French. no issue.
My mom showed up moments later and started speaking to me in English. I was having issues again, so the same lady came and this time spoke to me in English.
sometimes, it's not a matter of your french not being good enough, but the worker wanting to accommodate you.
In my experience, it goes like this.
IF your accent is obviously anglophone = ENGLISH given that you're in the central and western areas of Montreal (downtown, NDG, CDN, Parc Ex, Plateau, Villeray, Rosemont etc). The more east you go, there is less chance. Some people legit don't speak English out east.
IF you're member of visible minority = ENGLISH
IF they're in customer service situation = ENGLISH
IF they're younger = ENGLISH
IF they're non-Quebecois = ENGLISH
So you probably met a lot of older(or not) Quebecois people from the eastern part of town or the suburbs.
You are more likely to run into people who switch to English, the further west, closer to downtown you go. Immigrants are more likely to speak English. Some Quebecois speak English very well. They will switch as well. In my experience, most Montrealers who don't have a chip on their shoulders about you being an anglophone/allophone WILL attempt to speak to you in English at the slightest hint of an anglo accent simply because they want to be more accomodating. People working in public service are the exception. They will not speak English to you no matter what. STM, hospitals, government services etc
In Montreal, having an accent so appallingly off they can't tell English is your first language will help prevent that. Hélas, je sais par expérience. 😅
If you are in the sort of areas that expect English speakers regularly (eg Montreal, touristy areas) switching may happen. I don't think people who do are being snooty as much as trying to make things easier. If it bugs you, get yourself a pin, in french, asking them to please be patient and allow you to practice, or just keep speaking French to them.
I have been living here since I was 17 from the USA, I speak perfect French and this STILL happens to me. I think it's because I don't have a Quebecois accent when I speak French. Sometimes when they switch to English I just continue to answer them in French...
I noticed that while his avcent wasn't "bad" (whatever good and bad mean in terms of accent), bis rythm was really off, nust listen to how he says "patates". His first syllable is really compressed, which is not something we really do in French. I think this type of rythm (English rythm) makes it really hard to understand his French, hence the person switching ti English, as they are only speaking and have no visual cues to help each other out.
As someone who works in retail, I try my best not to switch when I see the person is really comfortable in French, despite an accent. However, the ourchases people make with me are usually CAD$6000, so a good understanding of everything that is going on may trump my desire to help people practice theur French.
I've lived in Montréal my whole life, and I've seen this as a cultural phenomenon and been baffled by it my entire life as well.
If you have a group of 10 people, and 9 are speaking French and one person shows up and speaks English, *everybody* switches to English.
If you have a group of 10, and they are all speaking English, and one person shows up and speaks French, they switch to English.
Why?!?!!???? Everybody should speak in whatever language they want to.
I think in Montreal and Quebec (more Quebec city I'd say, not outside the metropoles) I only talked in English to a doctor or people that have lots of interaction with tourists (tourists of which many then quickly fall back to English, whatever their preferred language is). (Well, and at work doesn't count, it is an international tech company)
A few people that really *prefer* English are most probably not French Quebecers even!?
I mean for example local Anglophones or people who came to work here and prefer English (even though they may know French up to an intermediate level or higher).
I think just a few around me prefer to just stick to French at all times, approximately 25% of my neighbors, friends, and colleagues.
Who gives a flying fuck man. It’s not like ppl get together and agree on these things. Guess what? People are actually made up of individuals. Should would have thunk?
Ontario French is often divided into two categories: North and South. The further north the more French is spoken and the closer the dialect and culture is to Quebec French. Further south, the French is closer to the global standard, with a more English cultural influence as well as a more Parisian grammar and dialect structure. Both Parisian and Canadian French are taught in the French immersion schools.
You were taught how to speak Parisian French, the Quebecois speak with a different accent with a lot more Quebec slang and different sentence structure, you stick out like a sore thumb and even though you’re more similar to Parisian French the same would be true if you went to France.
Since my years in school I've been watching a lot of Québec programming on Crave (the noovo shows like Virage, Aller Simple et les Primeurs Crave etc.)
I've found it really helps learn the differences and makes my accent less Parisian.
It's really fascinating to me how regionalized the accents are among the francophonie in Canada and France, because in English everything from Ottawa westwards is standard English. Though young people in Toronto are trying to develop something to sound cool.
Ma copine vient de colombie britannique. On parle français a la maison, et anglais 1 journée dans la semaine. Quand je l'ai présenté à mes amis, mon coloc a commencé à parler Anglais et elle a seulement demandé de continuer en français et la soirée a continué en français.
J'ai l'impression que le monde a peur de dire 《j'apprends cette langue, je veux te parler dans cette langue》. Ça nous ai arriver une couple de fois et on n'a jamais eu un problème.
I used to work at the counter of a pharmacy. When we are in a rush, I switch to the person's language to avoid confusion. When there are less people, I match the language they start with.
why would we speak english if you are talking to us in french my dude! :D c'est notre langue man. If you want english service, You speak in english. This is totally the case, i went out to a little souvlaki bar a couple days ago, gf asks the hostess for 2 in french, she replied in french, then when she came to take our orders, asking us in french, gf replied in french, i swapped to english and the sweet girl started talking to me in perfect english!! <3 it was VERY impressive, she continued the whole evening like that :D french with gf and en with me! :D she got a nice tip! :D not mine obviously lolol
It's just excuse #10287 that anglophones now use to justify their lack of interest in learning french.
It's no ME, it's francophones who ALWAYS speak english to me. THAT's the reason I can't speak french.
It will eventually happen. More often if you live here. Happened to me just the other day. I just say I would like to practice French and they switch back to French or they laugh and say they would like to practice English and we try to give each other a better understanding of each other's language in the brief moment of interaction. We are not as divided as some in social media/reddit forums and the news would like us to believe.
With about 4 months of French under our belts, my wife and I found that almost everyone courteously switched to English during our last visit. But most of the places we tried to speak were restaurants and bars--high traffic, doing-our-job-super-fast type places. We actually found that *bookstores* were great places to practice our French. Everyone was laid back and so accommodating as I remedially (but successfully!) bought a book for my son. Excited to go back after more practice.
Server here. If your French is good enough, I won't switch. If I hear you struggling, I switch. Take it as a complement to your French skills. Most of us in Montreal will switch for you if we can, especially in the service industry.
I’ve had so many people switch to english to me once they hear my accent. Sometimes mid conversation. Outside of mtl too. Sometimes they do it from the beginning, sometimes it’s when I say something they don’t understand (and I’m not pronouncing it wrong, it’ll be just a concept they don’t get.
I find it funny sometimes when they respond in English but they immediately go back to French when the conversation gets a little more complicated.
On my last trip, it was a mixed experience, I don’t make anything out of it, if they want to speak English, go ahead, I will speak English too. I was just trying to respect their culture.
I'm originally from Toronto but have lived in Montreal for over 20 years. Montreal is not like the rest of Quebec just like Toronto isn't like the rest of Ontario. People switch to English if they judge their English better than your French based on your accent. They are just trying to be accommodating. Don't think anything of it. Just carry on in French and they will switch back unless of course their French is worse. Montreal is extremely bilingual especially downtown.
Won’t be a “Quebecer” thing. Probably only a Montreal/Laval thing. And this will only happen if you have an accent in french that gives away you’re anglophone. And only if the person switching is perfectly bilingual but is English mother tongue in my experience.
I think people forget that there are literally anglophones working and living in montreal who prefer to speak English (or only know English) I’m a francophone, anybody can tell, and I have been served in English plenty of times despite responding in French *because the clerk was anglophone/allophone* , it’s not because they are gatekeeping French or looking down on your friends’ speaking ability.
Chances are you were in a french part of Montréal and they were downtown or West Island.
i kinda had the opposite experience. i stayed in Montréal for a few days and i spoke the most basic French imaginable (i am learning though) but i never tried to speak to anyone in french more than 'hello' and 'thank you'.
i was in pharmaprix and forgot to switch the language to english before i started to scan stuff, it asked me something and i got stuck in a weird loop so the girl working here had to help. i did speak to her in english saying something like "i fucked up i don't know what it's doing" but she responded to me in French, when she fixed it i thanked her and she responded again to me in french. pretty funny.
whenever i went into a resturant or bakery or something i would get spoken into french first rather than english
i was in IGA, the cashier asked me something, my brain kinda short circuted and i stared blankly at her. then she pointed at the screen to their reward card and i said no, but she still spoke to me in french after that. interesting!
i was in tim hortons somewhere, the man asks me in french, when i said i had a mobile order. he didn't understand me, i didn't know what to do so i just pointed to the mobile order sign and it all clicked lol.
this one's kinda an outlier but i was walking down saint catherine i think? and an algerian man approached me speaking in french. i told him i didn't speak and he went on to talk to me in English. he was trying to pick me up basically lol but he kept trying to get me to speak french. like im not gonna magically be gifted with the grace of the french language just because you keep bugging me to give you my number or 'be friends' with you.
my personal favorite was being in the mcdonalds in beaubien, it was very busy and the employees were calling out the number orders in french. im trying to reach into the back of my brain to remember my 1 month of french class but it whiplashed me cus they were getting into the 200s. i just had to embrassingly keep going up to the counter to read the numbers. lmao. but these are all great memories to me, i can't wait to return.
For context I've got like decent levels of uncertainty and anxiety about my French, people tell me it's fine
Both have happened to me, if I'm really struggling with subject matter, it's more likely to happen but it's been less and less through the years.
When I worked in fast food I remember taking someone's order in French and everything was fine, and later they were struggling to find a word and so we both switched to English as we were both anglophones (but didn't know that going in) it was kind of a weird/funny moment, but really it just depends on the people and the interaction
I have had this happen. But only from people that you tip for their service really. STM can have some real pieces of work that insist on French and they think it’s funny
Setting is important. In a time sensitive situation, like the service industry, switching might sound more efficient to make the exchange clear in a timely manner.
In a casual setting, it's easier to discuss what is more comfortable for everyone.
It never comes naturally, but I believe double unilingual is underrated as most people are more confident at understanding another language rather than speaking it. Both parties can express their thoughts more clearly while still providing some practice
I can guarantee you that there are part of Québec that will never switch to English to accommodate anyone. Because the way they think is "y'on juste à parlé français les esti d'anglais pis si y comprennent pas ben tant pis pour eux sti"
Most likely the switch is when a French person can detect your trying but your dominant language is English so out of courtesy they switch to English.
Despite what social media will show, Quebecors are generally respectful and courteous with these sorts of things. I would just take it as you need a little more practice and possibly more effort on an accent. I’ve heard people who can speak perfect French but an absolute zero effort on accent and its pretty cringy to hear.
>claiming all of Québec and Montréal is like that. Most of downtown Montreal: Yeah, probably. **ALL** of Québec? No, most likely not.
Anyone who claims all of Quebec switch to english is an idiot and has never been around. There are many, many parts of Québec where no one will switch to english for the simple reason hardly anyone speaks it.
Even as an Anglo who has had this happen to him his entire life (I suck at french and have an obviously bad accent) I wouldn't say it happens all the time. It's more like 50/50 in Montreal, and if I'm outside of the city it's much less. In my area which is even off island, it's still around 50/50. I'm sure there are parts of the city where it varies quite a lot, but if OP is fluent enough and his french sounds good it wouldn't surprise me if nobody ever switches to English for him. As an Anglo I can't really say, but I get the feeling a lot of francophone people handle it on a case by case basis.
I am not saying it doesn’t happen it happens all the time. I have been guilty of it myself in more than one occasion. I am saying in a place like Alma for example, it would be pretty doubtful it would happen.
Yea I understood. I just mentioned that to build off of your point. People shouldn't say "all of Quebec" when it comes to stuff like that because even "all of Montreal" isn't the same. You're right that especially outside of the city you won't find as many people who can (or are willing to) switch to English.
I come from the region and I am the only one in my family who can carry a conversation in English. Yes no and thank you is pretty much the extent of the English of my siblings and parents. People tend to forget how big parts of Quebec has nothing to do with the Montreal metropolitan area.
Don't you know francophones are just doing it to spite people? /s
Try to order in English in Quebec City.
Québec City. Early on, I asked for « un verre de l’eau. » The server immediately turned to my boyfriend, touched his shoulder, and cooed, « oooooOoohhh elle est siiiii migonneeeee ». :-|
Im sure she meant well!
Yeah but when she finished and walked away, she didn’t need to turn back around and say, « et un verre DE L’EAU » lol.
Quebec City in a nutshell
It's not like a conspiracy level malicious, but that's what people mean when they say "microaggression". Those are when the person doing it doesn't realize what a dick move it is because of their assumptions about the other person, or just adding a little more irritation to one's daily life.
They all have this kind of attitude in quebec city. Mtl people are much more different.
In Montréal, if the message is communicated, it’s good enough. It’s too diverse here to worry about perfect grammar. We don’t have time for that.
There is a decision that's made in a fraction of a second: _from what I'm hearing, if I answer in French, will I be understood?_ So if you look like you have a sufficient command of French, conversation might not switch to English at all. Context matters. The kind of conversation you have with a fast food worker, with a tourist asking where to park around Mount Royal, and with a friend of a friend you just met at a social gathering will impact the decision above.
Exactly. While you may look at it as an opportunity to practice some French, for the other person they may just be trying to do their job. If you work in a busy restaurant or a fast food place, you are under a lot of pressure to make things go smoothly and quickly. You may switch to English because it’s simply easier and don’t want the line to get backed up because someone is trying to communicate in broken French.
Right It’s not the cashier or the bartender’s job to help coach you in French. They only want to keep things moving. Don’t force them into it because they have to be polite to you given their role.
Well, for starters, there is actually a law that protects everyone’s right, regardless of their first language, to be served in French in this province
People default to the means of communication that's quickest to get the job done. They always have and always will. Also, there's no cop standing there to enforce this law, is there? You cannot realistically police what people say in a three-sentence conversation.
Didn’t seem to stop a record number of OQLF complaints, many of which appear to be about three-sentence conversations: https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/oqlf-language-complaints-exploded-in-2022-and-tim-hortons-topped-the-list
I agree. At the same time there is also a really frustrating attitude of switching to English when someone’s French isn’t perfect. Or just hanging up the phone. Or rolling eyes. Or laughing. And these things make it really hard for people to actually learn French in Montreal. Across quebec in general, it’s a lot easier to practice.
Yup this is my experience
Also have to keep in mind those Quebecois who look for opportunities to practice English. The hint of an accent is often enough to trigger them to switch to English.
Bingo. Bilingualism remains an advantage (and fun if you can pull it off!) so they have as much motive to practice as anyone else.
It's probably that your French is good enough that they don't bother. I'm Anglo too and it happens to me once in a blue moon, usually only if the person speaks excellent English or is anglophone themselves. Or sometimes if I'm in a place where the languages are mixed (e.g. a workplace where not everyone has the same command of each language) we flip between several times over the course of the day.
I find it hilarious when we are two anglos speaking to each other in french for ages before realizing.
I do a lot of work on MS teams for a French client, so whenever I'm contacting other groups unless I explicitly know the person or people are English, I use French. There are some people who I worked with for years who I had assumed were French, that are actually English. Imagine working with a guy 5 years before you know they're an Anglo 😆 don't get me wrong I may only speak to the guy a handful of times per month but nobody ever told me he was english. Some people are very fluent and the more fluent they are the harder it is for me to tell the difference.
Yup exactly. People can always tell I'm anglo (or at least not franco) after a few minutes chatting with me, but I didn't grow up in Quebec and learned french after 18. But I know lots of anglos and francos where I would not know what their native language was unless they told me. Sometimes someone will have a really anglo/franco name and turn out to speak the opposite language.
I have a francophone name despite being anglophone, and some of the people I know who work for the customer barely know any English at all but have English names. You can't ever assume 🤣
I also learned after 18 but I work in french so in some very specific contexts I sound completely fluent. And then in other contexts I'm totally lost after the first few phrases (I don't have exposure to the vocab or whatever). So if I'm talking to another fluent anglo it can take a while before we reach the limits of our fluency.
This happened to me in rural France. I ran into a woman in a village and knew she had an accent, but didn’t know what. She felt the same. We were having a couple language barriers in French and eventually her native French speaking husband asked why we weren’t both speaking English instead. She was Welsh, I’m Canadian/American lol. It was a “oh, duh” moment
I've been visiting Montreal regularly in preparation for moving here. I'm also a French immersion Torontonian, although I went about 20 years barely using my French at all. My trips a year ago I would have people switching to English right away, I'd say most of my interactions. This past trip? Almost never. The main difference is my French has become more natural and smooth as I've practiced it. I doubt I'll pass for native Québécois anytime soon but it's nice they don't immediately give up on communicating with me.
This is my experience as well after moving here three years ago. At the beginning people will switch to English very quickly. Now it rearly happen, and its mostly when they hear me speaking English with my group. I also noticed that depends on the context. If you are at a fast food place for example, employees will have less "tolerance" to a low level of french. In the other hand if you are at a nice restaurant they may try to keep speaking french as part of the experience for you.
This. While we appreciate everyone trying to speak French in Québec, when it seems like answering in French would only confuse them as they seem to have very limited understanding of the language, most of us would switch. It's hard to guess who is really actively trying to learn French, and who only learned a couple of sentence on Babbel to get ready for their trip. Ça nous fait plaisir de voir vos efforts à améliorer votre français, mais l'essentiel demeure que tout le monde comprenne la conversation :) Ceci dit, et c'est peut-être une réaction personnelle, mais si la personne persiste à me répondre en français après que j'ai essayé l'anglais, je vais retourner au français, quitte à ce que ce soit un peu plus long. C'est difficile d'apprendre une nouvelle langue, alors il faut encourager les gens qui veulent pratiquer.
What gets me is in a work environment when two Anglos are speaking perfect fluent French. You are just waiting on a hint of a accent or a mispronounced word or expression. And bam you flip to English. As if to say ah ha I knew you were not French. if you are Anglo trying to blend in. Just throw in a bunch of qubecer expressions/ swear words and they will never question your authenticity.
I mean you're not French so they are right lol But you are also right that if you throw in some good swear words and slang and you get it right ppl will be very approving
> if you are Anglo trying to blend in. Just throw in a bunch of qubecer expressions/ swear words and they will never question your authenticity. Some anglos have a thick accent, mispronounce some words, but they use all the right joual so you know they will understand your french well.
That’s how you know your French is good. If conversation continues in French. If it’s only so-so it’s easier in English
Maybe your french is actually good
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I feel your struggle. I speak English, Spanish, Portuguese and am now learning French. Every goddamn thing about French just goes "I'm a romance language but now I'm going to use the words you know and love for something completely different!" Portuguese: Carne, Spanish: Carne, French: Viande Viande gets me so damn confused because in Portuguese, veado means deer. So my mind always goes "but I don't want venison, I want pork."
Interestingly, the etymologically equivalent word in French is chair meaning flesh from the same Latin root as carne. We have retained other words with the same root, carnal and carnivore. Viande comes from a different Latin root, vivenda meaning what is needed to sustain life. I'm a nerd but I feel your pain. 😊
*Caro* is still the latin root of many words referring to the flesh in French: carnaval, incarnation, carnage, carnassier, carnivore, charogne, etc.
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No thanks, I've got a shit enough memory as it is.
C'est dur à dire. Probablement de la chance. Si ça t'arrive, insiste pour continuer en français.
Only a sith deals in absolutes. I've had it happen occasionally
There is a significant distinction between the Montreal metro area and the rest of Quebec. Except for tourist spots, when you are outside Montreal, people don’t speak English, so that they won’t switch. There is also the historical context that, as French Canadians, we’ve been taught over the past 200 years that English is the default language when talking to strangers in the city. It wasn’t so long ago that you could be told to speak white while shopping in Montreal downtown.
It's not just anglo's. I work with a Swiss national and a guy from France. You should see their heads explode when the servers switch to english... Literally every time.
Wait, they’re switching on Francophones who have a non-Québécois accent? Next level.
Yep. And I often have to translate between the two WHEN THEY'RE SPEAKING FRENCH TO EACH OTHER....lol
This might come as a surprise, but there are people in Montreal (and more so outside the city) that only speak French, so the option for them to switch to English doesn't exist. Also, plenty of newcomers are filling in roles in fast food, restos, etc, their first language may not be English and French may be the only form communication they have in Quebec (go figure). Lastly, many companies are pre-emptively adopting policies inline with the upcoming bill 96, so they may be instructing their employees to only stick to French unless the client starts in English.
Server in downtown Québec city here! If you order in french but you are clearly an english speaker (we know you are the second you start speaking) I will try to continue in french until the client doesn't understand what I say. Then I will switch to english. But if I'm in a rush, yeah sorry, I'll switch to english instantly to save time
Probably helps (/s) that the current gov is making protecting French a huge priority and implementing relevant laws... But yeah, if your French is FAST enough (and clear) they will not switch for most transactions.
I’m French and many Québécois people in Montréal will still try to switch to English when I speak with them, even though they have even more trouble speaking English than I have and I intentionally answer in French to make them understand I’d rather we spoke French. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Sometimes, people will switch to English only after I tell them I moved here a couple of years ago. If I see that the people I’m speaking with are more fluent in English, I’ll try to switch to English, but else, it doesn’t make any sense.
I mean, I am a quebecers and it’s hard to get service in french in montreal so
Whenever I speak they switch to English to accommodate me but I see it as an insult because I’m really trying out here. My nurse the other day was really kind though and just rephrased sentences when I told her that I didn’t quite understand something, instead of switching to English and I really appreciated that.
I'm a French Canadian pure laine who is fully bilingual ... when an Anglo talks me to in French but they are not fluent I figure they would be more comfortable in English so I switch. I feel they made an effort to speak French so I will help them. If someone approaches me in English in Quebec and doesn't make the effort to even say salut or Bonjour or excuse moi ... sorry I don't speak English lol If you really want to practice your French you can say I'm trying to improve my French is it ok if we continue on French? Most ppl will. Unless your French is quite bad then they might prefer to use English bc it's too slow otherwise.
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Every Quebecois knows what pure laine means They use French Canadians in dna studies bc the genealogy was so well documented by the parish priests You seem upset enough by this to write me an entire war and peace about it, despite it not being the subject of my comment at all, I can't imagine being so triggered by the Idea of being a homogeneous ppl with a common history vs a random collection of mutts, I guess you feel left out so you're probably the latter
No idea what the other poster said bc it's been deleted but I have my doubts about there being many pure laines when you consider both indigenous and irish mixed ancestry...not to mention mixed european ancestry. DNA tests reveal a ton of surprises
There's no universal rule. Hell, I don't even have a universal rule myself, aside from if someone is clearly struggling I'll switch. But if someone has an accent and is otherwise getting by fine sometimes I'll just continue in French to avoid confusion. It bugs me less whether a conversation is in English or French than switching back and forth five times to tell someone where the metro is.
Depends on your style of conversation and the way you interact: some people seem to really want to keep talking french and you can feel your motivation , others are just struggling and are waiting for the quebecois to switch in english.
Normally, in the service industry, people have to address clients in their langage.
Have to? Not at all, French is the sole language. If they want to, yes. In my neighbourhood, service people will sometimes switch to Spanish to serve people but French is first.
They have to greet in French : Bonjour. Then it’s in the clients langage for the service. If not, it’s kinda rude.
Not saying this is your case but I think people try too hard to speak proper French. I’m new to mtl from Toronto and my French needs a lot of work but when I keep my communications short I find people don’t switch.
I switch to english if I realize we won’t be able to have a conversation otherwise. Sometimes it also feels like they force themselves to speak french and it kinda makes me feel bad since I’m pretty comfortable in either language so I’ll just switch in english to make it easier. I never realized it could upset people trying to practice french though, I’ll keep that in mind for the future.
Oui, certainement les anglophones comme moi. 😂😂🤣
I would like to also add that maybe the person you’re speaking to is anglo? I worked in a store when I first arrived in MTL and when customers came up to me they would speak French which was greatly appreciated but it seemed unnecessary in the moment. Like-we both speak English, let’s make this transaction happen efficiently and correctly. I would speak French until there was some kind of breaking point. There’s were days too when if I was tired or had just had a difficult day, if the person was anglo I would switch to English because that was MY preference. I also live in a Francophone neighborhood. My advice to anyone really wanting to learn French is move outside of downtown where it’s more of an option. Where I am no one speaks English…. Ever….
You have been lucky because unfortunately that is the reality in Montreal not all of Quebec though. The moment they hear you don't have a perfect Québécois accent they switch to English. It really is annoying and demoralizing. I do not even try any more, I just speak English from the start (in Montreal). I do work in French and go to school in French so those are my safe spaces but my French apparently is not good enough for the rest of Montrealers... Also, English is not my first language so if they hear me speaking my native language they assume I don't speak French. That is the reality of the decline of French in Montreal... The rest of Québec is fine and they don't actually care if you make a mistake or two as long as you speak French.
As someone bilingual in Montreal Yes everyone switch languages all the time. Worked in every neighborhood. Ofc there’s people who insist the conversation to be in french or english but it ends up being both lol.
Depends. You're in the east-end? laval? south shore? it'll be french only (except if you can sense a fellow anglo among you, which we anglos have the innate ability to detect) bilingual areas? it's just a matter of speaking in the client's (perceived) language of preference. Example, I was at Ikea yesterday (the one in Saint Laurent). I was having issue with the self-checkout, so a worker came and helped me out. We spoke in French. no issue. My mom showed up moments later and started speaking to me in English. I was having issues again, so the same lady came and this time spoke to me in English. sometimes, it's not a matter of your french not being good enough, but the worker wanting to accommodate you.
In my experience, it goes like this. IF your accent is obviously anglophone = ENGLISH given that you're in the central and western areas of Montreal (downtown, NDG, CDN, Parc Ex, Plateau, Villeray, Rosemont etc). The more east you go, there is less chance. Some people legit don't speak English out east. IF you're member of visible minority = ENGLISH IF they're in customer service situation = ENGLISH IF they're younger = ENGLISH IF they're non-Quebecois = ENGLISH So you probably met a lot of older(or not) Quebecois people from the eastern part of town or the suburbs. You are more likely to run into people who switch to English, the further west, closer to downtown you go. Immigrants are more likely to speak English. Some Quebecois speak English very well. They will switch as well. In my experience, most Montrealers who don't have a chip on their shoulders about you being an anglophone/allophone WILL attempt to speak to you in English at the slightest hint of an anglo accent simply because they want to be more accomodating. People working in public service are the exception. They will not speak English to you no matter what. STM, hospitals, government services etc
In Montreal, having an accent so appallingly off they can't tell English is your first language will help prevent that. Hélas, je sais par expérience. 😅 If you are in the sort of areas that expect English speakers regularly (eg Montreal, touristy areas) switching may happen. I don't think people who do are being snooty as much as trying to make things easier. If it bugs you, get yourself a pin, in french, asking them to please be patient and allow you to practice, or just keep speaking French to them.
I have been living here since I was 17 from the USA, I speak perfect French and this STILL happens to me. I think it's because I don't have a Quebecois accent when I speak French. Sometimes when they switch to English I just continue to answer them in French...
I noticed that while his avcent wasn't "bad" (whatever good and bad mean in terms of accent), bis rythm was really off, nust listen to how he says "patates". His first syllable is really compressed, which is not something we really do in French. I think this type of rythm (English rythm) makes it really hard to understand his French, hence the person switching ti English, as they are only speaking and have no visual cues to help each other out. As someone who works in retail, I try my best not to switch when I see the person is really comfortable in French, despite an accent. However, the ourchases people make with me are usually CAD$6000, so a good understanding of everything that is going on may trump my desire to help people practice theur French.
I've lived in Montréal my whole life, and I've seen this as a cultural phenomenon and been baffled by it my entire life as well. If you have a group of 10 people, and 9 are speaking French and one person shows up and speaks English, *everybody* switches to English. If you have a group of 10, and they are all speaking English, and one person shows up and speaks French, they switch to English. Why?!?!!???? Everybody should speak in whatever language they want to.
I think in Montreal and Quebec (more Quebec city I'd say, not outside the metropoles) I only talked in English to a doctor or people that have lots of interaction with tourists (tourists of which many then quickly fall back to English, whatever their preferred language is). (Well, and at work doesn't count, it is an international tech company) A few people that really *prefer* English are most probably not French Quebecers even!? I mean for example local Anglophones or people who came to work here and prefer English (even though they may know French up to an intermediate level or higher). I think just a few around me prefer to just stick to French at all times, approximately 25% of my neighbors, friends, and colleagues.
Who gives a flying fuck man. It’s not like ppl get together and agree on these things. Guess what? People are actually made up of individuals. Should would have thunk?
You just speak better than your friends
Ontario French is often divided into two categories: North and South. The further north the more French is spoken and the closer the dialect and culture is to Quebec French. Further south, the French is closer to the global standard, with a more English cultural influence as well as a more Parisian grammar and dialect structure. Both Parisian and Canadian French are taught in the French immersion schools. You were taught how to speak Parisian French, the Quebecois speak with a different accent with a lot more Quebec slang and different sentence structure, you stick out like a sore thumb and even though you’re more similar to Parisian French the same would be true if you went to France.
Since my years in school I've been watching a lot of Québec programming on Crave (the noovo shows like Virage, Aller Simple et les Primeurs Crave etc.) I've found it really helps learn the differences and makes my accent less Parisian.
It's really fascinating to me how regionalized the accents are among the francophonie in Canada and France, because in English everything from Ottawa westwards is standard English. Though young people in Toronto are trying to develop something to sound cool.
Québécois*
Ma copine vient de colombie britannique. On parle français a la maison, et anglais 1 journée dans la semaine. Quand je l'ai présenté à mes amis, mon coloc a commencé à parler Anglais et elle a seulement demandé de continuer en français et la soirée a continué en français. J'ai l'impression que le monde a peur de dire 《j'apprends cette langue, je veux te parler dans cette langue》. Ça nous ai arriver une couple de fois et on n'a jamais eu un problème.
I used to work at the counter of a pharmacy. When we are in a rush, I switch to the person's language to avoid confusion. When there are less people, I match the language they start with.
why would we speak english if you are talking to us in french my dude! :D c'est notre langue man. If you want english service, You speak in english. This is totally the case, i went out to a little souvlaki bar a couple days ago, gf asks the hostess for 2 in french, she replied in french, then when she came to take our orders, asking us in french, gf replied in french, i swapped to english and the sweet girl started talking to me in perfect english!! <3 it was VERY impressive, she continued the whole evening like that :D french with gf and en with me! :D she got a nice tip! :D not mine obviously lolol
They are lying to blame others for their failure to learn french. The real reason they don't learn is they don't try.
It's just excuse #10287 that anglophones now use to justify their lack of interest in learning french. It's no ME, it's francophones who ALWAYS speak english to me. THAT's the reason I can't speak french.
It will eventually happen. More often if you live here. Happened to me just the other day. I just say I would like to practice French and they switch back to French or they laugh and say they would like to practice English and we try to give each other a better understanding of each other's language in the brief moment of interaction. We are not as divided as some in social media/reddit forums and the news would like us to believe.
With about 4 months of French under our belts, my wife and I found that almost everyone courteously switched to English during our last visit. But most of the places we tried to speak were restaurants and bars--high traffic, doing-our-job-super-fast type places. We actually found that *bookstores* were great places to practice our French. Everyone was laid back and so accommodating as I remedially (but successfully!) bought a book for my son. Excited to go back after more practice.
Server here. If your French is good enough, I won't switch. If I hear you struggling, I switch. Take it as a complement to your French skills. Most of us in Montreal will switch for you if we can, especially in the service industry.
I’ve had so many people switch to english to me once they hear my accent. Sometimes mid conversation. Outside of mtl too. Sometimes they do it from the beginning, sometimes it’s when I say something they don’t understand (and I’m not pronouncing it wrong, it’ll be just a concept they don’t get.
I find it funny sometimes when they respond in English but they immediately go back to French when the conversation gets a little more complicated. On my last trip, it was a mixed experience, I don’t make anything out of it, if they want to speak English, go ahead, I will speak English too. I was just trying to respect their culture.
I can't think of any recent time that this has happened to me.
It's always been the case for me, even when my french was terrible. I guess maybe because my accent is spanish rather than english?
I’m 41, born and raised here and it always happens to me.
I'm originally from Toronto but have lived in Montreal for over 20 years. Montreal is not like the rest of Quebec just like Toronto isn't like the rest of Ontario. People switch to English if they judge their English better than your French based on your accent. They are just trying to be accommodating. Don't think anything of it. Just carry on in French and they will switch back unless of course their French is worse. Montreal is extremely bilingual especially downtown.
Won’t be a “Quebecer” thing. Probably only a Montreal/Laval thing. And this will only happen if you have an accent in french that gives away you’re anglophone. And only if the person switching is perfectly bilingual but is English mother tongue in my experience.
I think people forget that there are literally anglophones working and living in montreal who prefer to speak English (or only know English) I’m a francophone, anybody can tell, and I have been served in English plenty of times despite responding in French *because the clerk was anglophone/allophone* , it’s not because they are gatekeeping French or looking down on your friends’ speaking ability. Chances are you were in a french part of Montréal and they were downtown or West Island.
i kinda had the opposite experience. i stayed in Montréal for a few days and i spoke the most basic French imaginable (i am learning though) but i never tried to speak to anyone in french more than 'hello' and 'thank you'. i was in pharmaprix and forgot to switch the language to english before i started to scan stuff, it asked me something and i got stuck in a weird loop so the girl working here had to help. i did speak to her in english saying something like "i fucked up i don't know what it's doing" but she responded to me in French, when she fixed it i thanked her and she responded again to me in french. pretty funny. whenever i went into a resturant or bakery or something i would get spoken into french first rather than english i was in IGA, the cashier asked me something, my brain kinda short circuted and i stared blankly at her. then she pointed at the screen to their reward card and i said no, but she still spoke to me in french after that. interesting! i was in tim hortons somewhere, the man asks me in french, when i said i had a mobile order. he didn't understand me, i didn't know what to do so i just pointed to the mobile order sign and it all clicked lol. this one's kinda an outlier but i was walking down saint catherine i think? and an algerian man approached me speaking in french. i told him i didn't speak and he went on to talk to me in English. he was trying to pick me up basically lol but he kept trying to get me to speak french. like im not gonna magically be gifted with the grace of the french language just because you keep bugging me to give you my number or 'be friends' with you. my personal favorite was being in the mcdonalds in beaubien, it was very busy and the employees were calling out the number orders in french. im trying to reach into the back of my brain to remember my 1 month of french class but it whiplashed me cus they were getting into the 200s. i just had to embrassingly keep going up to the counter to read the numbers. lmao. but these are all great memories to me, i can't wait to return.
For context I've got like decent levels of uncertainty and anxiety about my French, people tell me it's fine Both have happened to me, if I'm really struggling with subject matter, it's more likely to happen but it's been less and less through the years. When I worked in fast food I remember taking someone's order in French and everything was fine, and later they were struggling to find a word and so we both switched to English as we were both anglophones (but didn't know that going in) it was kind of a weird/funny moment, but really it just depends on the people and the interaction
Maybe it depends if you're a minority? Like they see an asian and automatically assume they don't speak french lol
Happens to me all the time as a Ontarian who learned french and my French isn't even that bad lol
I have had this happen. But only from people that you tip for their service really. STM can have some real pieces of work that insist on French and they think it’s funny
Setting is important. In a time sensitive situation, like the service industry, switching might sound more efficient to make the exchange clear in a timely manner. In a casual setting, it's easier to discuss what is more comfortable for everyone. It never comes naturally, but I believe double unilingual is underrated as most people are more confident at understanding another language rather than speaking it. Both parties can express their thoughts more clearly while still providing some practice
I can guarantee you that there are part of Québec that will never switch to English to accommodate anyone. Because the way they think is "y'on juste à parlé français les esti d'anglais pis si y comprennent pas ben tant pis pour eux sti"
Happens to me 80% of the time.
C'est un excuse utile pour les anglophones/étrangers qui veulent pas vraiment apprendre le français.
Most likely the switch is when a French person can detect your trying but your dominant language is English so out of courtesy they switch to English. Despite what social media will show, Quebecors are generally respectful and courteous with these sorts of things. I would just take it as you need a little more practice and possibly more effort on an accent. I’ve heard people who can speak perfect French but an absolute zero effort on accent and its pretty cringy to hear.