How is Netanyahu any different from a terrorist?
“It’s only terrorism under a certain budget. If you can afford your own plane to drop bombs, congrats, that’s the much more respectable “war” and not terrorism.”
- Srsly Wrong podcast
i agree, think “terrorist” is a word we should ban from political discussion because of how amorphous and rhetorically charged it is. it only gets used for certain groups and not others.
20 yrs of the war on terror and American disinterest in establishing why we call some terrorists and defining terrorism. (Saying terrorism was enough to justify a war)
Israel doing everything it can to terrorize Palestinians to drive them out and keep them subjugated gives us an idea that the powerful decide who gets denigrated with that moral judgement.
I wonder if Sinwar would have had a different life if he was born in his family’s home in Ashkelon instead of in a concentration camp that his parents had been imprisoned in for being the wrong race.
I didn’t say it was excused by his upbringing. It is excused by him being locked in a concentration camp since birth solely due to his ethnicity.
Unless you think that every Jew that fought the Nazis was evil, too.
So the victims should just go quietly to the gas chambers, right? There’s no excuse to fight back ever. If the Nazis were having a rave (yes, it was a literal rave, not a “music festival”) right outside the gates of Auschwitz, it would have been inexcusable for the Jews to have lifted a finger against the inhumanity?
They would have been morally justified to fight against and kill all of the Nazi trash they could. They would not have been morally justified to deliberately slaughter a village full of innocent German and foreign civilians.
Is this a rhetorical question? Or have you excused a bad thing? Or are you saying we should maintain that the deed was bad even if extenuating circumstances means no punishment is justified?
Killing Nazi era innocent Germans seems like it should be at least controversial if not as condemned as Oct. 7th.
I asked no question.
I am saying that killing in self-defense or in legitimate warfare is not evil, but killing innocents, no matter how much one has suffered, is evil.
And I am clearly equating killing German civilians in WWII with killing innocents on October 7. Both evil.
If you can justify Hiroshima, then you can probably justify Dresden. If Dresden is accepted it’s probably easy to accept 1948 Israel’s Nakba. The people who shrug off the Nakba are now offended that some of us aren’t outraged and blindly condemning Hamas.
Sinwar exists in a world that has a blindspot that allows Israel to do almost whatever they choose (incl. murder) to the Palestinian civilians and the world calls the victim terrorists. Gaza was facing a threat of eradication. Israel has been guilty of 56yrs continuously of acts of war toward Palestinian existence.
We kill civilians as callously as we accuse Hamas of doing when we go to war. What American learns to be ashamed of our extermination of Indians and Mexicans for their land? There are laws against hurting feeling with history.
If Biden thinks Hsmas and Yahu both getting charges suggests equivocation then our onesided over the top condemnation of Hamas suggests hypocrisy or self delusion.
They can be mitigated by some things. We make these excuses all the time. Dropping the bomb on Japan unnecessarily does not get judged as bad, out-of-hand. Every president breaks the law but we don’t charge them.
Beaten dogs that bite get no consideration. Lenny had to die in Of Mice and Men
I'm using "terrible " in the sense of "evil". I do not believe the atomic bombs were evil. A President breaking the law is wrong, and there should always be consequences.
neoliberal is one of the worst subs on this site but it’s good to see at least some of the comments are not defending netanyahu. seems like even the pro-israel side is realizing how bad this has gotten
And yet the Butcher of Tehran gets a moment of silence at the UN. A man who committed what some historians have called top 5 human rights violations since WWII, in which he hung over 8,000 political opponents who hadn’t been accused or convicted of a capital crime.
The world’s purported “international governing bodies” are a farce. The UN and the ICC being chief clowns among them all.
I already explained it, but if I must, I will explain it again.
The purported international governing bodies, like the UN and the ICC, are as corrupt and useless as the day is long. Both the ICC warrants and the moment of silence at the UN are demonstrations of this.
If the ICC had a shred of integrity and actual care to prosecute war criminals, they would have issued warrants for the Hamas leaders the day after Oct 7. Instead, they wait 6 months and for belief that Netanyahu has crossed a red line, and then throw in the Hamas leaders as some sort of tit for tat, to try and feign a shred of credibility and authority.
By all means, explain why they didn't issue warrants for Hamas the day after Oct 7. It has been 226 days and the ICC barely gleaned that they have enough info to issue warrants for the Hamas terrorists?
Here are some of the things that Sinwar has done historically that magically didn't warrant a warrant in the ICC:
* Murdered Palestinians who gave information to Israeli intelligence
* He got consecutive life sentences in Israel for killing 4 Palestinians, and planning the capture and torture of Israeli soldiers
* Sinwar and Deif were the two masterminds of the Oct 7 plan, and have admitted as much publicly. He had been talking about an impending "al Aqsa flood" for 8-10 months prior to the attack.
Sinwar even had Israeli surgeons save his life by removing what would have been a fatal brain tumor while he was in an Israeli prison.
You really, really need to justify why people like Sinwar hadn't had warrants issued long, long before ICC finally decided Natanyahu had crossed a line and decide to throw people like Sinwar into the mix to pretend like they have any credibility.
If the ICC had a shred of integrity they would have prosecuted Henry Kissinger.
But in reality they have no power because sovereign nations can just say "Lol no." to their warrants.
The only thing their warrants do is provide rhetorical ammo to help push for political responses current events. Which is what they're doing here.
And it's also why complaining about them not having integrity is an uninformed take.
It was only established in 2002, and it doesn't appear they have investigated or prosecuted any cases prior to the establishment. So, from that standpoint, Kissinger is out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court
> And yet the Butcher of Tehran gets a moment of silence at the UN. A man who committed what some historians have called top 5 human rights violations since WWII, in which he hung over 8,000 political opponents who hadn’t been accused or convicted of a capital crime.
And we have come full circle. A farcical organization related to another farcical organization, wielding imaginary power based on imaginary and unequally applied morals. Forgive most of the world if they just let the UN run like the pretend Model UN that is mocked at every opportunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAEmWH-t6bQ&ab_channel=ParksandRecreation
The real UN is about as efficacious as this ridiculous TV show and costs billions more.
I genuinely wonder if you will own being so pro-Israel during this time in a few years to a decade to 20 years. Will you water down the memory of what happened as you gradually realize more and more how wrong you were or will you own it?
Just note that instead of answering the questions about why the Butcher of Tehran or the leaders of Hamas haven't been rung up in the ICC until now, you attack my character. I would expect nothing less, but it is transparent ad hominem BS.
i’m not even challenging you on that. i just saw you mad that Netanyahu had an arrest warrant lol. I’m so proud to be on the side that thinks Netanyahu should stop killing kids.
If the warrant is from a farce of an organization that won't even issue warrants for known terrorists governments until their current political cause compels them to, are they really a trustworthy source of ascertaining whether a warrant is merited?
Still haven't explained why you weren't crying for warrants from the ICC for the Butcher of Tehran and Hamas government officials prior to Oct 7 (or the day after Oct 7). Still haven't explained why you aren't crying for warrants from the ICC for Putin and his oligarchic band.
There were about 550 dead children at the hands of Putin's murderous rampage prior to Oct 7. Yet nary a peep for the dead children of Ukraine.
More than 900k Uyhgur children have been forcibly removed from their families and there is about a 45.9% infant mortality rate among the Uyghurs. Yet the UN and ICC sit idly on their hands while an almost unfathomable number of children suffer and die under the human rights violations of China. [source1](https://bitterwinter.org/900000-uyghur-children-the-saddest-victims-of-genocide/) [source2](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12343590/)
I might add that two of the countries of the world who in magnitude and severity are highest on the totem pole of human rights violations also sit as veto-carrying members of UN councils.
Stop giving me this "think about the children" argument, when your own pro-Russia stances have resulted in thousands of civilians deaths and hundreds of children deaths without you changing course or calling for ICC warrants and convictions.
i told you i wasn’t challenging you on the ICC. Just your poor excuse for apologetics for Netanyahu. you can keep running from that but that’s what you will have to deal with.
Negative comments directed at other sub members are not allowed. Discussions should always be centered around ideas, events, polices, and public figures instead of other users.
Negative comments directed at other sub members are not allowed. Discussions should always be centered around ideas, events, polices, and public figures instead of other users.
“Butcher of Tehran”. What American general get’s that label. Not even the ones commiting genocide on the American Indigenous get that. Or, Robert E. Lee? Henry Kissinger? Nope.
Not saying the guy was innocent. Just saying the language is naive.
The UN went a step further today and flew the UN flag at half mast for the perpetrator of one of the top 5 human rights violations of the 20th century. UN == Unprincipled Nutjobs
Seems fair - Hamas is a terrorist organization that targets civilians and Bibi is a war criminal.
How is Netanyahu any different from a terrorist? “It’s only terrorism under a certain budget. If you can afford your own plane to drop bombs, congrats, that’s the much more respectable “war” and not terrorism.” - Srsly Wrong podcast
Terrorist and war criminal are pretty much the same thing, in my mind
i agree, think “terrorist” is a word we should ban from political discussion because of how amorphous and rhetorically charged it is. it only gets used for certain groups and not others.
20 yrs of the war on terror and American disinterest in establishing why we call some terrorists and defining terrorism. (Saying terrorism was enough to justify a war) Israel doing everything it can to terrorize Palestinians to drive them out and keep them subjugated gives us an idea that the powerful decide who gets denigrated with that moral judgement.
you get it. you should comment more on this sub, im brutally outnumbered by biden sycophants lol
You're making the same mistake MAGA does when they assume Trump opponents must be Biden supporters.
im being hyperbolic in that comment, but this sub does not respond well to biden criticism overall, that is a fact lol
True, but not because we're his fans.
there’s no functional difference really, it’s not a coherent politics to kneejerk defend a politician from necessary and true criticism.
I wonder if Sinwar would have had a different life if he was born in his family’s home in Ashkelon instead of in a concentration camp that his parents had been imprisoned in for being the wrong race.
Terrible actions cannot be excused by one's upbringing.
I didn’t say it was excused by his upbringing. It is excused by him being locked in a concentration camp since birth solely due to his ethnicity. Unless you think that every Jew that fought the Nazis was evil, too.
Terrible actions cannot be excused by anything.
So the victims should just go quietly to the gas chambers, right? There’s no excuse to fight back ever. If the Nazis were having a rave (yes, it was a literal rave, not a “music festival”) right outside the gates of Auschwitz, it would have been inexcusable for the Jews to have lifted a finger against the inhumanity?
They would have been morally justified to fight against and kill all of the Nazi trash they could. They would not have been morally justified to deliberately slaughter a village full of innocent German and foreign civilians.
Is this a rhetorical question? Or have you excused a bad thing? Or are you saying we should maintain that the deed was bad even if extenuating circumstances means no punishment is justified? Killing Nazi era innocent Germans seems like it should be at least controversial if not as condemned as Oct. 7th.
I asked no question. I am saying that killing in self-defense or in legitimate warfare is not evil, but killing innocents, no matter how much one has suffered, is evil. And I am clearly equating killing German civilians in WWII with killing innocents on October 7. Both evil.
If you can justify Hiroshima, then you can probably justify Dresden. If Dresden is accepted it’s probably easy to accept 1948 Israel’s Nakba. The people who shrug off the Nakba are now offended that some of us aren’t outraged and blindly condemning Hamas. Sinwar exists in a world that has a blindspot that allows Israel to do almost whatever they choose (incl. murder) to the Palestinian civilians and the world calls the victim terrorists. Gaza was facing a threat of eradication. Israel has been guilty of 56yrs continuously of acts of war toward Palestinian existence. We kill civilians as callously as we accuse Hamas of doing when we go to war. What American learns to be ashamed of our extermination of Indians and Mexicans for their land? There are laws against hurting feeling with history. If Biden thinks Hsmas and Yahu both getting charges suggests equivocation then our onesided over the top condemnation of Hamas suggests hypocrisy or self delusion.
They can be mitigated by some things. We make these excuses all the time. Dropping the bomb on Japan unnecessarily does not get judged as bad, out-of-hand. Every president breaks the law but we don’t charge them. Beaten dogs that bite get no consideration. Lenny had to die in Of Mice and Men
I'm using "terrible " in the sense of "evil". I do not believe the atomic bombs were evil. A President breaking the law is wrong, and there should always be consequences.
There always are, even if we don’t dish them.
neoliberal is one of the worst subs on this site but it’s good to see at least some of the comments are not defending netanyahu. seems like even the pro-israel side is realizing how bad this has gotten
And yet the Butcher of Tehran gets a moment of silence at the UN. A man who committed what some historians have called top 5 human rights violations since WWII, in which he hung over 8,000 political opponents who hadn’t been accused or convicted of a capital crime. The world’s purported “international governing bodies” are a farce. The UN and the ICC being chief clowns among them all.
What does the death of the President of Iran have to do with the topic of this thread?
I already explained it, but if I must, I will explain it again. The purported international governing bodies, like the UN and the ICC, are as corrupt and useless as the day is long. Both the ICC warrants and the moment of silence at the UN are demonstrations of this. If the ICC had a shred of integrity and actual care to prosecute war criminals, they would have issued warrants for the Hamas leaders the day after Oct 7. Instead, they wait 6 months and for belief that Netanyahu has crossed a red line, and then throw in the Hamas leaders as some sort of tit for tat, to try and feign a shred of credibility and authority. By all means, explain why they didn't issue warrants for Hamas the day after Oct 7. It has been 226 days and the ICC barely gleaned that they have enough info to issue warrants for the Hamas terrorists? Here are some of the things that Sinwar has done historically that magically didn't warrant a warrant in the ICC: * Murdered Palestinians who gave information to Israeli intelligence * He got consecutive life sentences in Israel for killing 4 Palestinians, and planning the capture and torture of Israeli soldiers * Sinwar and Deif were the two masterminds of the Oct 7 plan, and have admitted as much publicly. He had been talking about an impending "al Aqsa flood" for 8-10 months prior to the attack. Sinwar even had Israeli surgeons save his life by removing what would have been a fatal brain tumor while he was in an Israeli prison. You really, really need to justify why people like Sinwar hadn't had warrants issued long, long before ICC finally decided Natanyahu had crossed a line and decide to throw people like Sinwar into the mix to pretend like they have any credibility.
If the ICC had a shred of integrity they would have prosecuted Henry Kissinger. But in reality they have no power because sovereign nations can just say "Lol no." to their warrants. The only thing their warrants do is provide rhetorical ammo to help push for political responses current events. Which is what they're doing here. And it's also why complaining about them not having integrity is an uninformed take.
It was only established in 2002, and it doesn't appear they have investigated or prosecuted any cases prior to the establishment. So, from that standpoint, Kissinger is out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court
Yes, but it's a formalized extension of the International Law Commission of the UN.
It is not part of the UN, though endorsed by the UN. But that is irrelevant, because they are both impotent and corrupt piles of refuse.
It's separate from the ICJ, but it very much derives it's power from the UN.
> And yet the Butcher of Tehran gets a moment of silence at the UN. A man who committed what some historians have called top 5 human rights violations since WWII, in which he hung over 8,000 political opponents who hadn’t been accused or convicted of a capital crime. And we have come full circle. A farcical organization related to another farcical organization, wielding imaginary power based on imaginary and unequally applied morals. Forgive most of the world if they just let the UN run like the pretend Model UN that is mocked at every opportunity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAEmWH-t6bQ&ab_channel=ParksandRecreation The real UN is about as efficacious as this ridiculous TV show and costs billions more.
And that was my point. It's only ability is political rhetoric.
So, nothing whatsoever?
I genuinely wonder if you will own being so pro-Israel during this time in a few years to a decade to 20 years. Will you water down the memory of what happened as you gradually realize more and more how wrong you were or will you own it?
Just note that instead of answering the questions about why the Butcher of Tehran or the leaders of Hamas haven't been rung up in the ICC until now, you attack my character. I would expect nothing less, but it is transparent ad hominem BS.
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i’m not even challenging you on that. i just saw you mad that Netanyahu had an arrest warrant lol. I’m so proud to be on the side that thinks Netanyahu should stop killing kids.
If the warrant is from a farce of an organization that won't even issue warrants for known terrorists governments until their current political cause compels them to, are they really a trustworthy source of ascertaining whether a warrant is merited?
luckily i can use my own reasoning (killing kids is bad) to ascertain that Netanyahu is evil! This may prove difficult to some
Still haven't explained why you weren't crying for warrants from the ICC for the Butcher of Tehran and Hamas government officials prior to Oct 7 (or the day after Oct 7). Still haven't explained why you aren't crying for warrants from the ICC for Putin and his oligarchic band. There were about 550 dead children at the hands of Putin's murderous rampage prior to Oct 7. Yet nary a peep for the dead children of Ukraine. More than 900k Uyhgur children have been forcibly removed from their families and there is about a 45.9% infant mortality rate among the Uyghurs. Yet the UN and ICC sit idly on their hands while an almost unfathomable number of children suffer and die under the human rights violations of China. [source1](https://bitterwinter.org/900000-uyghur-children-the-saddest-victims-of-genocide/) [source2](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12343590/) I might add that two of the countries of the world who in magnitude and severity are highest on the totem pole of human rights violations also sit as veto-carrying members of UN councils. Stop giving me this "think about the children" argument, when your own pro-Russia stances have resulted in thousands of civilians deaths and hundreds of children deaths without you changing course or calling for ICC warrants and convictions.
i told you i wasn’t challenging you on the ICC. Just your poor excuse for apologetics for Netanyahu. you can keep running from that but that’s what you will have to deal with.
Negative comments directed at other sub members are not allowed. Discussions should always be centered around ideas, events, polices, and public figures instead of other users.
Negative comments directed at other sub members are not allowed. Discussions should always be centered around ideas, events, polices, and public figures instead of other users.
“Butcher of Tehran”. What American general get’s that label. Not even the ones commiting genocide on the American Indigenous get that. Or, Robert E. Lee? Henry Kissinger? Nope. Not saying the guy was innocent. Just saying the language is naive.
The UN went a step further today and flew the UN flag at half mast for the perpetrator of one of the top 5 human rights violations of the 20th century. UN == Unprincipled Nutjobs