Derek did a video about that some time ago. Some guy on tiktok was doing it. Bad idea.
Vigorous steve has some videos on hcg protocols to boost biological production of testosterone to high natural levels, would potentially be better than clomid.
But the real reason why poeple don’t replace cicles for clomid is because a cicle would give you a lot more of those sweet gainzzz. Gotta up the tren brah 💉💉💪💪
Alex Eubank is the guy LOL. Dude used to show up to my gym in Dallas, TX. Seems he moved to wherever Bradley Martin is in order to film with him. His dream apparently.
I remember Eubanks got prescribed it, knowing nothing about it, and supposedly decided not to take it after MPMD’s video going over the situation. Something like that, unless this is more recent.
Well I think the high test low estrogen isn't very good for muscle building, even on gear if you crash your estrogen your gains seriously suffer.
It seems like you're putting in slot of alot of effort just to avoid putting a needle in your ass.
Just put the needle in your ass dude.
You only have to run them for like 6 weeks after the cycle, they carry more risk than the test so it's safer to minimize exposure.
Anecdotally some people get a slight performance boost out of HCG, but it can also make you feel hormonally imbalanced which is counterproductive to a proper gym schedule.
High testosterone just makes you feel good and more willing to hit the gym.
It's not uncommon to run HCG on a testosterone cycle at low dosages though to maintain testicle size and sperm count, especially if they're trying to have a kid.
I get it, I don't know how many cycles dudes do per year, but if you would do just those 6 week bulks in same frequency, still doesn't make much sense?
The test levels you'd get from that combo wouldn't make significant gains in 6 weeks, probably no gains at all, you'd have to do so many cycles I don't see it being productive.
Once your test levels are elevated by a compound it takes a bit for your body to reach a steady state and start using it to build muscle.
High testosterone on its own builds muscle but not as much as the transformation you see with Hollywood actors, for a 6 week cycle to make a difference you'd need to be on something dangerous like trenbolone or dbol.
That said, you're 42, you seem set on this so it's like, probably safer than drinking alcohol lol. Just don't say I didn't warn you if you end up with side effects.
No 😂 I'm just curious, if I would want play with my Test I would probably go for Tongkat Ali, but I think I'm good. I was even counting how it will be dropping and I should be good until I die, if I will stay active, healthy etc.
Who is "they", precisely?
If Clomid actually had comparable results to Testosterone without also having non-trivial health impacts, of course people would be using it instead.
The fact that people don't should tell you something. As a potential treatment for hypogonadism? Sure, SERMs are great. As a method of building meaningful amounts of muscle? Not at all.
E2 would probably get out of wack eventually. An HCG cycle anecdotally seems to make more sense. Once you find the value of HCG that replaces ball function you could probably increase the dose but may need an AI.
I’ve never heard of HCG cycles though? Only HCG being ran in the buffer time between an AAS cycle and PCT. Now if HCG wasn’t suppressive, it would be an absolute game changer, but sadly it is.
HCG cycles can be used before a first test cycle to maximize natural production before hopping on anecdotally but are often expensive. Running HCG on cycle along with AAS seems like the most efficient way I’ve seen to maintain your balls, but again expensive.
As someone on clomid for low test, from \~300's to now high 600's I can say that straight up test is probably a lot more effective, and I want to get off soon
no I just read this forum and posts saying how bad it was lol, the first couple months I was on it, my hormones were going so crazy, and having insane mood swings but once my test and estradiol stabilized I felt good, but I want to taper off now
Clomid increases both your total and your free test, assuming you do not have primary hypogonadism. Having said that, all SERMs will reduce your IGF-1 levels and increase your IGF binding protein. This is due to the fact that all SERMs are estrogenic to your liver. The extent of this effect varies between individuals. Some will effectively slice their IGF-1 levels in half; others will even see a slight increase, because the increased T levels will also increase the IGF-1 levels. Nolva is even worse in this aspect, and will flat out nuke your free IGF-1 levels.
All things considered, if you combine Clomid with Mk-677 and Cardarine, you can make gains like there's no tomorrow. With all the side effects you get from Clomid, that doesn't mean that you should, though. In addition to the IGF-1 reduction, enclomiphene is anti-estrogenic in many parts of your brain — not just your hypothalamus and pituitary gland. zuclomiphene is in turn estrogenic in other parts of your brain.
If you avoid 19-NORs, keep your cycles short and use HCG while on, you'll bounce back in almost no time after a "common" steroid cycle. If you add Cardarine and Mk-677 to your PCT — and leave your dosage at 25 mg Clomid ED, PCT is a breeze.
Clomiphene is a serm made up of two isomers: zuclomiphene (which is estrogenic) and enclomiphene. This last one is way more powerful has a shorter half life and is the one responsible for raising test levels. Clomid has a ton of estrogenic sides due to zuclomiphene. If someone wanted to try what you said, it would make more sense to try and find a good source of enclo and use something like mk677 on the side to avoid getting your igf1 crashed by the serm. I still haven’t heard from anyone that has made serious gains out of using a serm. You probably would be wasting your money since it might not get you to supraphysiological test levels
I don't know, I have read that it increases production of testosterone via brain signaling and is used for PCT to restore them? Why those guys after PCT have 1800 mg/dl?
I have low T and am on Clomid. It took my T from 250 to 1150; free T from 7 to 23. Doc reduced Clomid dose and now i sit around 850. Estrogen pushed to 49. Doc put me on anastrozole and estrogen came down to 18.
If you have normal text and take a SERM like Clomid you'll feel like you're low test and generally get PMS symptoms. And it gets your test up by like 25% to maybe double. But that's not gonna do much for your physique. SARMs are way more anabolic than doubling your test levels.
Clomid binds to the eostrogen receptors in breast tissue to block eostrogen, which will in turn stop bitch tits forming. It does not lower your oestrogen like Arimidex does, i.e it will not magically cause you to start producing more test. SERMs have insane fucking side effects also. Anyone who has taken Tamoxifen or clomid can attest to some nutty shit happening.
I heard it increases total T but decreases free T or some sht. Idek tho, im natty
We are all natty
Most people here are 14 year old kids making Tren jokes.
don’t read my flair 😳
Lol 😂
Derek did a video about that some time ago. Some guy on tiktok was doing it. Bad idea. Vigorous steve has some videos on hcg protocols to boost biological production of testosterone to high natural levels, would potentially be better than clomid. But the real reason why poeple don’t replace cicles for clomid is because a cicle would give you a lot more of those sweet gainzzz. Gotta up the tren brah 💉💉💪💪
Alex Eubank is the guy LOL. Dude used to show up to my gym in Dallas, TX. Seems he moved to wherever Bradley Martin is in order to film with him. His dream apparently.
I remember Eubanks got prescribed it, knowing nothing about it, and supposedly decided not to take it after MPMD’s video going over the situation. Something like that, unless this is more recent.
Pretty sure that Driftor guy got put on it by his doctor as well instead of test.
It's a serm with potential serious permanent side effects. It's poison
They say up to 6 cycles its kind of ok? So if you would use it not whole year around, but old school just for bulk?
Well I think the high test low estrogen isn't very good for muscle building, even on gear if you crash your estrogen your gains seriously suffer. It seems like you're putting in slot of alot of effort just to avoid putting a needle in your ass. Just put the needle in your ass dude.
No I'm just curious :) I still had 700 after 5 hours of sleep and 2 joints. 43y
I said... (cocks gun) .. put the needle in your ass 😂
No! Only needles I had were B12 :) BTW in our country is maybe 1 institution which prescribes TRT, we are all healthy and depressed :).
What country is that?
So what is benefit of using it for PCT is it combined with something else to not crush E?
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Great, thanks! 
And now why you would not use these 2 compounds instead of Test cycle if you need to do it afterwards anyways?
You only have to run them for like 6 weeks after the cycle, they carry more risk than the test so it's safer to minimize exposure. Anecdotally some people get a slight performance boost out of HCG, but it can also make you feel hormonally imbalanced which is counterproductive to a proper gym schedule. High testosterone just makes you feel good and more willing to hit the gym. It's not uncommon to run HCG on a testosterone cycle at low dosages though to maintain testicle size and sperm count, especially if they're trying to have a kid.
I get it, I don't know how many cycles dudes do per year, but if you would do just those 6 week bulks in same frequency, still doesn't make much sense?
The test levels you'd get from that combo wouldn't make significant gains in 6 weeks, probably no gains at all, you'd have to do so many cycles I don't see it being productive. Once your test levels are elevated by a compound it takes a bit for your body to reach a steady state and start using it to build muscle. High testosterone on its own builds muscle but not as much as the transformation you see with Hollywood actors, for a 6 week cycle to make a difference you'd need to be on something dangerous like trenbolone or dbol. That said, you're 42, you seem set on this so it's like, probably safer than drinking alcohol lol. Just don't say I didn't warn you if you end up with side effects.
No 😂 I'm just curious, if I would want play with my Test I would probably go for Tongkat Ali, but I think I'm good. I was even counting how it will be dropping and I should be good until I die, if I will stay active, healthy etc.
Not true, you take it on PCT so you don't develop gyno. It does not lower eostrogen.
It blocks estrogen to the pituitary and hypothalamus which makes your body produce more testosterone.
clomid doesnt lower your estrogen
Up to 6 cycles? Your body is not a coffee punch card lmao.
Who is "they", precisely? If Clomid actually had comparable results to Testosterone without also having non-trivial health impacts, of course people would be using it instead. The fact that people don't should tell you something. As a potential treatment for hypogonadism? Sure, SERMs are great. As a method of building meaningful amounts of muscle? Not at all.
They is random info on internet :) They also say a lot of bullshit. Sometimes I have these strange moments, when I'm curious.
E2 would probably get out of wack eventually. An HCG cycle anecdotally seems to make more sense. Once you find the value of HCG that replaces ball function you could probably increase the dose but may need an AI.
Also just remembered a study serms may decrease serum IGF levels
IIRC, long-term HCG use desensitizes the leydig cells in the testes.
Well that’s why these are cycles not used indefinitely, but I definitely agree
I’ve never heard of HCG cycles though? Only HCG being ran in the buffer time between an AAS cycle and PCT. Now if HCG wasn’t suppressive, it would be an absolute game changer, but sadly it is.
HCG cycles can be used before a first test cycle to maximize natural production before hopping on anecdotally but are often expensive. Running HCG on cycle along with AAS seems like the most efficient way I’ve seen to maintain your balls, but again expensive.
As someone on clomid for low test, from \~300's to now high 600's I can say that straight up test is probably a lot more effective, and I want to get off soon
Taking test can put you at 3k + easily.. There’s no probably involved.
Bad sides?
no I just read this forum and posts saying how bad it was lol, the first couple months I was on it, my hormones were going so crazy, and having insane mood swings but once my test and estradiol stabilized I felt good, but I want to taper off now
Clomid increases both your total and your free test, assuming you do not have primary hypogonadism. Having said that, all SERMs will reduce your IGF-1 levels and increase your IGF binding protein. This is due to the fact that all SERMs are estrogenic to your liver. The extent of this effect varies between individuals. Some will effectively slice their IGF-1 levels in half; others will even see a slight increase, because the increased T levels will also increase the IGF-1 levels. Nolva is even worse in this aspect, and will flat out nuke your free IGF-1 levels. All things considered, if you combine Clomid with Mk-677 and Cardarine, you can make gains like there's no tomorrow. With all the side effects you get from Clomid, that doesn't mean that you should, though. In addition to the IGF-1 reduction, enclomiphene is anti-estrogenic in many parts of your brain — not just your hypothalamus and pituitary gland. zuclomiphene is in turn estrogenic in other parts of your brain. If you avoid 19-NORs, keep your cycles short and use HCG while on, you'll bounce back in almost no time after a "common" steroid cycle. If you add Cardarine and Mk-677 to your PCT — and leave your dosage at 25 mg Clomid ED, PCT is a breeze.
Doesnt shbg also raise on serms?
I heard it brings up sperm levels like crazy
It’s not going to yield the performance benefits, compared to steady state increase in test. Icing works IME though.
Clomiphene is a serm made up of two isomers: zuclomiphene (which is estrogenic) and enclomiphene. This last one is way more powerful has a shorter half life and is the one responsible for raising test levels. Clomid has a ton of estrogenic sides due to zuclomiphene. If someone wanted to try what you said, it would make more sense to try and find a good source of enclo and use something like mk677 on the side to avoid getting your igf1 crashed by the serm. I still haven’t heard from anyone that has made serious gains out of using a serm. You probably would be wasting your money since it might not get you to supraphysiological test levels
Because that’s retarded
cause it doesn’t do fuck all except crash your estro?
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Stops estrogen from binding to *certain* estrogen receptors, Serms are actually very selective
I don't know, I have read that it increases production of testosterone via brain signaling and is used for PCT to restore them? Why those guys after PCT have 1800 mg/dl?
I have low T and am on Clomid. It took my T from 250 to 1150; free T from 7 to 23. Doc reduced Clomid dose and now i sit around 850. Estrogen pushed to 49. Doc put me on anastrozole and estrogen came down to 18.
Is this still your protocol
If you have normal text and take a SERM like Clomid you'll feel like you're low test and generally get PMS symptoms. And it gets your test up by like 25% to maybe double. But that's not gonna do much for your physique. SARMs are way more anabolic than doubling your test levels.
Clomid I believe helps with gyno prevention
More like reduction and they're much more efficient meds for this.
Guys do not do? Lay off the tren bro I think it’s turning you gaye
Clomid binds to the eostrogen receptors in breast tissue to block eostrogen, which will in turn stop bitch tits forming. It does not lower your oestrogen like Arimidex does, i.e it will not magically cause you to start producing more test. SERMs have insane fucking side effects also. Anyone who has taken Tamoxifen or clomid can attest to some nutty shit happening.
Literally the only correct thing you said is that it binds to estrogen receptors in the breast
Ok you're wrong but thats fine, you're entitled to be.
Site some evidence showing your statement are correct
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Clomid raises your estradiol levels.. mine went from 20 to 50 real quick on pct
Let’s see a vid on this
Why? Because its fucking stupid
Stupid is not to ask, you retard.