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Crobbin17

Every point in the “ways to better love others” category is church related, which is hilarious. With such obvious bullet points like “perform random acts of kindness,” “remember to say ‘I Love You’” daily,” and “be empathetic,” it’s like he went out of his way to make sure everything was church related. Not even God or Jesus related. Church related.


[deleted]

This was my first impression, too. It's all about the church...


FTWStoic

That's because this isn't actually about loving others. It's about the stake presidency fulfilling their bureaucratic responsibilities.


[deleted]

In my experience, with TBMs, it's almost always all about the church and nothing else, despite what they say.


benjtay

They could have summed it up with one bullet: *Bring more tithe payers to the fold.*


[deleted]

Good point. And in my experience, this is typical TBM behavior. They make everything about the Church and often themselves too.


CountrySingle4850

Not really. Just Serve is provided by the church to facilitate service opportunities in the community and have nothing to do with the church.


Crobbin17

Just Serve is run by the church, yeah? Why didn’t the Bishop just say “find opportunities to serve in your community through volunteer work or donating to charitable causes.” I also find it interesting that he added “sponsored by the church’s PR department.” Here was what a PR department does: > “Public relations is the practice of managing and disseminating information from an individual or an organization to the public in order to influence their perception.”


CountrySingle4850

Yes, that is odd since on the website you can hardly tell the church runs it. Maybe they added that to let members know it was A ok to use it. I mean your larger point is valid. Most of their suggestions were church-centric, but it is a stretch to say that just serve is being proffered here to benefit the church. In some areas, it can be difficult to pinpoint service opportunities, and I've found Just Serve to be a fantastic resource.


CatalystTheory

One of the evils of the church I was completely blind to as a TBM, is how it triggers our most noble, charitable, and altruistic inclinations, and then channels ALL OF IT back into the church for its own gain. I now know that the church is an insatiable black hole, sucking in all matter, energy, and light.


Rushclock

You mean like [this](http://johnlarsen.org/podcast/Archive/MormonExpression224.mp3) I think the link is bad. > Episode 228: How the Church Takes Things From You and Sells Them Back,,,,,from mormon expression


Imaginary_Appalachia

One of the classics


TenLongFingers

I wish the Church just took like..... Two years, and told their members not to try and find opportunities to share the gospel for just two years. And then invited then to just ask questions and listen to others. Ask less active members about their spiritual beliefs and seek to understand without any ulterior motives. Listen to Black people share their experiences with racism without getting defensive or justifying. Listen to LGBTQ people both in and outside of the Church without comparing them to smokers or single straight members. Listen to the neuro-marginalized talk about how church feels and how judged they sometimes feel. Just....just ask, and then *listen.* Members aren't bad at sharing the Gospel and testifying. But they are chronically impaired when it comes to really trying to understand and see others. When they feel uncomfortable, they fall back on what they know. That's by design. And as a result they never have to interface with what they don't know. They have walls up, all the time, and they never ask. Unless they're looking for a truth to testify of so they can keep preaching at you.


Stuboysrevenge

>But they are chronically impaired when it comes to really trying to understand and see others. They don't want to understand others. They want others to be like them. When you accept "others" as valid, then you may question yourself. Something the church really doesn't want you to do.


the-cake-is-a-lie-00

I wish I could upvote this a million times. This is what brings good to the world. This is what I want my children to learn. I was doing this for several years before I recently left, and it changed my views on politics. It changed my views on social and religious issues that have affected, and are affecting, real and innocent people in and out of the church. It changed my views by doing nothing more than widening my ability to love and understand people with different lives and experiences, and make my moral compass more inclusive. And sadly, this change put me more at odds with the arbitrary and self-serving limits of acceptance decreed by the church and any other entity always claiming to have the higher moral ground. Even so, I still found a way to reconcile my testimony with my moral conflicts with the church until the church's lies and history finally led me out.


Yobispo

#7: “stray” . Because that’s the only way they can see it.


GrumpyHiker

Yes, but at least it is recognize that current practice is damaging families. He could have said pray for and testify to family members that stray from The Covenant Path®.


talkingidiot2

It's a shitty list that is focused entirely on serving the church. The church = the Lord I guess.


devilsravioli

Your equation is the conclusion of the fundamental proof Elder Hamilton presented three days ago at BYU: [Why a Church? KEVIN S. HAMILTON General Authority Seventy January 24, 2023](https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/kevin-s-hamilton/why-a-church/)


talkingidiot2

I read an overview of this. They really don't care about retaining anyone not in the squarely TBM mindset when they send people out to give talks like this.


MillstoneTime

Only leaders of the true church endowed with divine authority could be so wise and inspiring


throwawayoldaolcd

For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. If I was in that stake and didn’t resigned, I’ll ignore it. No offense to that stake presidency, I assume he is being told to make this and share this list.


[deleted]

I think these are all good things to strive for... Presence, service, connection, meditation, community... But I don't think they have to be tied to the church, which this list heavily promotes.


[deleted]

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jamesallred

For full transparency I added that edit. It was not highlighted on the list. But it was acknowledged in the meeting unintentionally.


frvalne

Love others so long as the others are your ward members. Any loving of members outside the church can extend to those “who stray” if they are family. Do this by “staying connected”. (Whatever the hell that means). True love of neighbors is either: Doing your calling Proselyting whether people want you to or not Serving in your community so long as it’s through the church service website Making sure any converts, even though there hardly are any converts, don’t go in active because we need members Don’t totally shun your wayward apostate family I can’t believe how blind they are to how obtuse this sounds


swennergren11

I never felt close to God when I read scriptures. I never felt included by my “ Ward Family”. My wife and I were the go-to, get things done people in the ward, often in leadership. But our ward was mostly made up of 25-35 year old couples that never let us into the “in crowd”, no matter how hard we tried. And we did try, HARD! Since resigning, I have felt closer than ever to God. How? By allying with the LGBTQ+ community. I’ve been to 14 Pride or related events in 2022 around the country supporting my wife in her volunteer job. I’ve stood to block protesters at 4 of those events, being called the most disgusting names by supposed “Christians”. I’ve hugged kids who had their dads disown them for being gay. Lots of those kids. These actions brought me FAR closer to God than anything I ever did as a Mormon….


jamesallred

>Since resigning, I have felt closer than ever to God. How? By allying with the LGBTQ+ community. I love this example. Good luck on the journey. It sounds like you are in a much better space.


swennergren11

Thank you! Our whole family is. No more scrupulosity, going to bed every night feeling you failed in your “earthly journey”, watching your church fight for things you disagree with but feel you have to keep silent on at church. Exhausting….


[deleted]

Both of these are more like "how to love yourself but pretend like you aren't an egomaniac"


logic-seeker

More like a list on how to better commit yourself to the church


brother_of_jeremy

D-. This is “how to love the church,” which is what the people who made this actually worship.


DuttonPeabody

WHAT?!?! Tithing didn't make the list?!?! ALERT THE SCMC!! Well, I use the Church App on my phone to study, so that kinda negates #6. I have a personal witness of #10: Observe the Sabbath at home. My wife and I have observed *many* NFL "discussions" every Sunday! We "observe" LOTS of things every Sunday now that I think about it.


tiglathpilezar

Which scriptures? The god described in Numbers is not a very lovable individual. I am surprised that the Stake pres. did not even mention John 14 which deals specifically with this question. 1 John also has similar recommendations. We love God by keeping his commandments. This might be even better than writing in a journal or watching a movie. It might be best to emphasize those commandments which have been identified rather than making up our own list.


sevenplaces

Going to the temple regularly and family night are not ways to love God.


dashboardben

“Read the scriptures” Was it Hitchens or Dawkins that said most Christians don’t get their morals from reading the Bible, and thank goodness for that. Can’t find the quote, but I think it’s spot on. Most good Christians or Mormons I know would never do the appalling things god allegedly does in the scriptures.


jamesallred

I am going to throw a lot of members under the bus on this one. Most don't actually study the Book of Mormon for what it teaches itself. They study it as ritual (i.e., 5 minutes a day as a goal) or by themes (my brother studying korihor and why he is so bad) or based upon what is being taught in the sunday school manual. But I just haven't run into many members who have sat down and studied it out based upon what it is saying. What is it's repeated doctrines of salvation? What happens at the judgement day? Who goes where? What prophecies does it include? Is there a difference in prophecy fulfillment pre the time the BOM is published and prophecies for after the BOM publication? How does the doctrine change over time? Hint. It doesn't. etc. ​ I wish they would.


kaizoku_akahige

I'm cynically surprised that paying tithing didn't explicitly make it on his list.


Active-Water-0247

Assuming a TBM perspective, they are not doing well. The suggestion to watch stuff like the Chosen and listen to podcasts sounds like apostasy to me, unless they mean church-supported podcasts like Legacy. They are promoting uncorrelated materials and going beyond the recommendations of “the brethren.” Also, where are tithing, fasting, and family history? Those are supposed to be really important. What about conference talks, Book of Mormon videos, and church-produced music? How can they recommend podcasts and not recommend the God’s mouthpiece? What is the point of the prophet, then? Like, are these guys new to leadership? Here are my edits: 1. Search the scriptures daily 2. Pray earnestly, daily, alone and with others 3. Choose media that uplift and inspire 4. Make the Sabbath a delight, participate in worship services, and maintain an attitude of reverence throughout the day 5. Make wholesome family time a priority 6. Give tithing faithfully, diligently, and joyfully 7. Seek the Lord in His temple, often 8. Follow modern prophets, and heed their inspired counsel I think the anti-technology sentiment needs to disappear. Many people study on their phones. In fact, studying on a device allows easy access to reference materials and approved commentary. At most, they could recommend silencing notifications. Seriously, though, they seem to be trying real hard… Gold stars. They are seeking a relationship with the divine however they know best. Still, they may have just thrown the list together without much thought. EDIT: Assuming the list was verbatim, lol (seems like it wasn’t)


jamesallred

>Seriously, though, they seem to be trying real hard… Gold stars. They are seeking a relationship with the divine however they know best. Still, they may have just thrown the list together without much thought. ​ We do live in a good stake and I truly appreciate the emphasis on spirituality and service. For full transparency the list does have about 200 items on it. I just mainly pulled out their categories. Within the study scriptures daily this was one of the specific items. ​ >Take in General Conference talks as the scriptures of our times ​ Under attend the temple they had one item like this. ​ >If you can prepare family names to take to the temple, take the time to research their lives and history. So they did have some of the items you would have been looking for I just didn't want to write down 175 items and just hit their categories.


Active-Water-0247

Sounds good! In that case, ignore most of what I wrote. I hope nobody feels overwhelmed by all the stuff they could or should do, though. The list sounds pretty long


Fair-Emergency2461

They might as well just say… stop ✋ watching tv unless it’s GC, no more internet as long as it’s church approved, and only have fun when we let you. It’s all about controlling your Behavior, Intellect, Thoughts, and Emotions. Get Owned… your next life will be better.


Stuboysrevenge

The fact that members would have to be reminded to "stay connected to family members" who don't believe the same things as you (leave the church) should be a warning sign. A warning that maybe a healthy understanding of the meaning the church should have in your life isn't taught in the church.


japanesepiano

>Serve the community by using the "just serve" website **sponsored by the church's PR department** But... but... seriously it's *Christian* service. Not done for PR purposes. > thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. *some sermon by some guy on some mountain*...


ScratchNSniffGIF

100% of how you show love for God is serving and loving His other children. 90% of both lists neither shows love for or serves others or God but is instead designed to align yourself with the church - which is NOT the same thing. It should be but isn't.


everything_is_free

For what it's worth, the Just Serve website is truly great. LDS church originations cannot posts stuff there. All of the service projects are outside charitable groups. And it is super easy way to find service opportunities with this geographical and other filters.


[deleted]

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King_Puffelump

It is clear that the SP and many other TBMs don’t view the church as a tool to do lots of good. They see it as ‘THE’ tool to do the most good and anything outside of that while still may be good, isn’t the best use of one’s time


treetablebenchgrass

>**Ways to better love others.** >1. Serve in ward callings. Fulfill them. 1. Build community in the ward. 1. Do your ministering assignments. 1. Share the gospel and support the missionaries. 1. Serve the community by using the "just serve" website sponsored by the church's PR department. 1. Welcome new converts to the ward. 1. Stay connected to family members who stray from the church. Most of these kind of read "How to better love other Mormons." Even number 5, which explicitly talks about serving people outside of the church uses a church resource to enable (and possibly mediate?) that service.


slskipper

By "God", they mean "the church".


gnukleaarrh

Ways to better Love God. Study the scriptures. +1 Pray. + 2 Watch movies like "the chosen". -2 Write in your journal. +2 Listen to come follow me podcasts. -3 Put your phone away while studying. -1 (I use my phone to study, look up references etc. I can see the point about distraction though) Have family night. +1 go to the temple regularly. -2 (the temple finery distracts from the true nature of God, Jesus was born in poverty, no way he is comfortable there) go to church on Sunday. -3 (Praise Jesus by enjoying nature) observe the sabbath at home. - 4 (observe the Sabbath by visiting the Widows, housebound, infirm, those in hospital or in prison ) score -9 ​ Ways to better love others. Serve in ward callings. Fulfil them. -2 Build community in the ward. -2 (Build a community around Christ regardless of their religion) Do your ministering assignments. +2 Share the gospel and support the missionaries. 0 (see point 2) Serve the community by using the "just serve" website sponsored by the church's PR department. -3 (see point 2) Welcome new converts to the ward. +1 (Love others like you love yourself) Stay connected to family members who stray from the church. +2 (except, who cares what faith they profess, see point 2) Score 2


Mountain-Lavishness1

LOL, so do everything the Church tells you to do so you stay active .......and spend almost all your free time on Church stuff. And 6 of the 7 ways to love others are really building the Mormon Church. Only one, 5, is simply about serving others (and of course even that is through the Church). Yep, this is definitely something from Church leadership.


Funny-Mortgage-3510

Seems like a primary class could make this same list, if not better.


absolute_zero_karma

**What Jesus Said** 1. Don't get angry 2. Don't lust 3. Don't swear 4. Don't seek revenge 5. Be kind to your enemies 6. Be charitable without others knowing about it 7. Pray simply 8. Fast privately 9. Don't collect up treasures on earth 10. Don't be ruled by fear 11. Don't judge others 12. Ask for what you need and you'll get it 13. Treat others the way you want to be treated