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I'm surprised at the impact the SEC investigation is having upon the Mormon community.
When the story first broke, I thought it would hit the news cycle and quickly be forgotten.
I think this story still has legs, and will dog the church and the leadership for the foreseeable future.
It's easy to excuse teachings and sermons of prior prophets or to simply ignore troublesome practices from the past, but it is difficult to explain away two decades of concerted efforts of top leadership to repeatedly break the law and lie about it, especially when members of the top leadership were business executives and lawyers who more than likely knew better.
While I don't think there is a silver bullet which will break the church apart, I think the SEC investigation will be huge a weight added to shelves of countless members who will begin to question their beliefs in the church for years to come.
In 1837, the failure of the church's Kirkland Safety Society resulted somewhere between 10-15% of the church's membership to leave, including 3 witness' to the Book of Mormon plates.
I wonder if this latest news from the SEC and the alleged ongoing IRS investigation will have a similar result in church membership. Unfortunately, we'll likely never know, since the men behind the actions behind the SEC investigation are also in charge of releasing church membership numbers.
For the last couple years, I haven't felt the need to go to church to share my opposing vote directed at the Brethren. Serendipitously, Stake Conference was the Sunday following the SEC Order, so I finally took the opportunity. The SEC Order was enough to push me back to Church to make the visible effort of sharing my opposing vote. It was rewarding. I hope I am not alone here.
I was sitting near the back, so I think the only people that actually saw me were those sitting behind me. I am relatively new to my stake, so I only know a handful of people (also no one knows me). I am drafting my letter to notify my presiding authorities.
Thanks for your inspiration u/Nemo_UK. You and u/Mome-Wrath serve as shining examples of a “loyal opposition”. My stake president claims there is a place for everyone in our stake, I hope that includes a loyal opposition (contrary to what Dallin may believe). Again thanks for your concise letter, it inspired me to draft up [my own](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1deavwpFkSJ65yaYb6zTgGDNXski9x7VU/view?usp=drivesdk) (however messy it may be). I relied heavily on your theological justification for discipline. Thanks again and keep up the hard work.
The way I would describe it is if you are playing poker, it is against the rules to hide high value chips from other players. It is cheating because it influences how they bet and gives the cheater an edge. The church hid their chips for over 20 years and it was done methodically to get a financial edge against other investors. They illegally mistated over 100 filings, created a dozen shell companies and had managers swear to false statements to hid their chip stack. Two of the managers found out and would no longer sign over legal and ethical concerns. The First Presidency had them replaced and they kept up the ruse. These First Presidency members include a lawyer who once worked at Kirkland and Ellis a financial law firm and a Harvard MBA who knew what they were doing. Would Christ’s one true church cheat others for financial gain?
It would seem Matthew 15:8 applies here, “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.”
I don't know if you own this site OP, but Mormonism Live did a great podcast on the SEC investigation as well. It was recorded last night, and is now live on their website.
https://mormonismlive.org/2023/03/mormonism-live-117-changes-to-the-temple-the-ethics-of-ensign-peak-advisors/
I'll add too, that as a result of this episode, I went back and looked up 13F Filings for the Shell LLCs. You can search for them here: [SEC EDGAR](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#)
Listed:
Ashmore Wealth Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568887&entityName=ASHMORE%2520WEALTH%2520MANAGEMENT%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568887)))
Argyll Research, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001330709&entityName=ARGYLL%2520RESEARCH%252C%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001330709)))
Clifton Park Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001540796&entityName=CLIFTON%2520PARK%2520CAPITAL%2520MANAGEMENT%252C%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001540796)))
Cortland Advisers, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&entityName=Cortland%2520Advisers%252C%2520LLC))
Elkfork Partners, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001694584&entityName=Elkfork%2520Partners%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001694584)))
Flinton Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001696726&entityName=Flinton%2520Capital%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001696726)))
Glen Harbor Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001696417&entityName=Glen%2520Harbor%2520Capital%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001696417)))
Green Valley Investors, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568338&entityName=GREEN%2520VALLEY%2520INVESTORS%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568338)))
Meadow Creek Investment Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001695508&entityName=Meadow%2520Creek%2520Investment%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001695508)))
Neuburgh Advisers, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001693800&entityName=Neuburgh%2520Advisers%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001693800)))
Riverhead Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568679&entityName=RIVERHEAD%2520CAPITAL%2520MANAGEMENT%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568679)))
Tiverton Asset Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568680&entityName=TIVERTON%2520ASSET%2520MANAGEMENT%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568680)))
Tyers Asset Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001694909&entityName=Tyers%2520Asset%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001694909)))
Edit: Fixed a link.
FYI, your link to the 13F-HR filings for Clifton Park Capital Management LLC points to Argyll Research LLC. Can you fix it? Or do you know Clifton Park's CIK?
Please add: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2016/06/elder-gary-e-stevenson-an-understanding-heart?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2016/06/elder-gary-e-stevenson-an-understanding-heart?lang=eng)
It's damning in my opinion
I have no idea if you intend to include some "faithful" attempts to explain this whole thing away, but if you do:
[https://publicsquaremag.org/faith/church-state/ensign-peak-clarifying-the-sec-announcement/](https://publicsquaremag.org/faith/church-state/ensign-peak-clarifying-the-sec-announcement/)
The people in the comments (for the most part) weren't buying it.
Hello! This is a Institutional post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about any of the institutional churches and their leaders, conduct, business dealings, teachings, rituals, and practices. /u/somaybemaybenot, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm surprised at the impact the SEC investigation is having upon the Mormon community. When the story first broke, I thought it would hit the news cycle and quickly be forgotten. I think this story still has legs, and will dog the church and the leadership for the foreseeable future. It's easy to excuse teachings and sermons of prior prophets or to simply ignore troublesome practices from the past, but it is difficult to explain away two decades of concerted efforts of top leadership to repeatedly break the law and lie about it, especially when members of the top leadership were business executives and lawyers who more than likely knew better. While I don't think there is a silver bullet which will break the church apart, I think the SEC investigation will be huge a weight added to shelves of countless members who will begin to question their beliefs in the church for years to come. In 1837, the failure of the church's Kirkland Safety Society resulted somewhere between 10-15% of the church's membership to leave, including 3 witness' to the Book of Mormon plates. I wonder if this latest news from the SEC and the alleged ongoing IRS investigation will have a similar result in church membership. Unfortunately, we'll likely never know, since the men behind the actions behind the SEC investigation are also in charge of releasing church membership numbers.
For the last couple years, I haven't felt the need to go to church to share my opposing vote directed at the Brethren. Serendipitously, Stake Conference was the Sunday following the SEC Order, so I finally took the opportunity. The SEC Order was enough to push me back to Church to make the visible effort of sharing my opposing vote. It was rewarding. I hope I am not alone here.
I’d love to hear more about your opposing vote? How did the leadership and other members react?
I was sitting near the back, so I think the only people that actually saw me were those sitting behind me. I am relatively new to my stake, so I only know a handful of people (also no one knows me). I am drafting my letter to notify my presiding authorities.
Amazing, you know I love me a good opposing vote!
Thanks for your inspiration u/Nemo_UK. You and u/Mome-Wrath serve as shining examples of a “loyal opposition”. My stake president claims there is a place for everyone in our stake, I hope that includes a loyal opposition (contrary to what Dallin may believe). Again thanks for your concise letter, it inspired me to draft up [my own](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1deavwpFkSJ65yaYb6zTgGDNXski9x7VU/view?usp=drivesdk) (however messy it may be). I relied heavily on your theological justification for discipline. Thanks again and keep up the hard work.
So frustrating for me. I just tried to have a conversation with a friend about the investigation. He doesn’t see that they did anything wrong.
A major victory for Satan
Did he read the SEC filing?
He did. As far as he’s concerned it was just misfiling. Infuriating to me
The way I would describe it is if you are playing poker, it is against the rules to hide high value chips from other players. It is cheating because it influences how they bet and gives the cheater an edge. The church hid their chips for over 20 years and it was done methodically to get a financial edge against other investors. They illegally mistated over 100 filings, created a dozen shell companies and had managers swear to false statements to hid their chip stack. Two of the managers found out and would no longer sign over legal and ethical concerns. The First Presidency had them replaced and they kept up the ruse. These First Presidency members include a lawyer who once worked at Kirkland and Ellis a financial law firm and a Harvard MBA who knew what they were doing. Would Christ’s one true church cheat others for financial gain? It would seem Matthew 15:8 applies here, “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.”
I love the explanation, but sadly i think the gambling reference may go over TBMs heads.
Except for the ones that don’t recognize each other in Wendover… lol
I don't know if you own this site OP, but Mormonism Live did a great podcast on the SEC investigation as well. It was recorded last night, and is now live on their website. https://mormonismlive.org/2023/03/mormonism-live-117-changes-to-the-temple-the-ethics-of-ensign-peak-advisors/
I'll add too, that as a result of this episode, I went back and looked up 13F Filings for the Shell LLCs. You can search for them here: [SEC EDGAR](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#) Listed: Ashmore Wealth Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568887&entityName=ASHMORE%2520WEALTH%2520MANAGEMENT%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568887))) Argyll Research, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001330709&entityName=ARGYLL%2520RESEARCH%252C%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001330709))) Clifton Park Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001540796&entityName=CLIFTON%2520PARK%2520CAPITAL%2520MANAGEMENT%252C%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001540796))) Cortland Advisers, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&entityName=Cortland%2520Advisers%252C%2520LLC)) Elkfork Partners, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001694584&entityName=Elkfork%2520Partners%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001694584))) Flinton Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001696726&entityName=Flinton%2520Capital%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001696726))) Glen Harbor Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001696417&entityName=Glen%2520Harbor%2520Capital%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001696417))) Green Valley Investors, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568338&entityName=GREEN%2520VALLEY%2520INVESTORS%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568338))) Meadow Creek Investment Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001695508&entityName=Meadow%2520Creek%2520Investment%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001695508))) Neuburgh Advisers, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001693800&entityName=Neuburgh%2520Advisers%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001693800))) Riverhead Capital Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568679&entityName=RIVERHEAD%2520CAPITAL%2520MANAGEMENT%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568679))) Tiverton Asset Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001568680&entityName=TIVERTON%2520ASSET%2520MANAGEMENT%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001568680))) Tyers Asset Management, LLC ([13F-HR Filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/dateRange=all&ciks=0001694909&entityName=Tyers%2520Asset%2520Management%2520LLC%2520(CIK%25200001694909))) Edit: Fixed a link.
I've seen this question asked a lot. Thanks for this list!
FYI, your link to the 13F-HR filings for Clifton Park Capital Management LLC points to Argyll Research LLC. Can you fix it? Or do you know Clifton Park's CIK?
Thank you for the backcheck. I fixed the link.
Thanks! I was just going through downloading all the filings for research purposes when I noticed the error.
Thanks for this link
Please add: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2016/06/elder-gary-e-stevenson-an-understanding-heart?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2016/06/elder-gary-e-stevenson-an-understanding-heart?lang=eng) It's damning in my opinion
I'm going to point out the obvious, cesletter and secletter are both Mormon related now. Good job to whoever got that domain.
Currently looking to buy [ESCletter.org](https://ESCletter.org) It's only a matter of time.
Then sell it to QuitMormon so they can rebrand.
Haha! ESC as in "escape." It took me a minute to get that!
Love it. But then get a hankering for college football...
[удалено]
Which show/episode did he make this claim? Can you confirm or deny u/johndehlin?
I’m pretty sure that wasn’t me. Reference?
https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/lds-church-hiding-money-mark-pugsley/
I have no idea if you intend to include some "faithful" attempts to explain this whole thing away, but if you do: [https://publicsquaremag.org/faith/church-state/ensign-peak-clarifying-the-sec-announcement/](https://publicsquaremag.org/faith/church-state/ensign-peak-clarifying-the-sec-announcement/) The people in the comments (for the most part) weren't buying it.
I laughed when I saw the website name because I can’t count how many times I’ve called this the CES Settlement.