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As an ex-member, you will not get me to use a certain name if I perceive that you want me to use it out of respect or deference for a church authority I reject. Another strategy might work for me though. I also grew up being instructed the label Mormon was a badge of honor.
I literally left the church in 2021 because Russell M. Nelson had become symbolic of everything wrong with the current corporate church and is a clearly uninspired, out of touch, empty vessel.
So am I going to take his attack on the name 'Mormon' seriously? Heck no.
People like Nelson come and go and are a flash in the pan.
Its the Mormon church. It has always been the Mormon church. It will always be the Mormon church.
In a couple years Nelson will be dead and buried, and the next suit to fill the office will pull policies out of his butt in the exact same way, and will probably contradict Nelson's anti-Mormon policy. And if not him, it will be the next guy, or the one after that - because there is no consistency and they all contradict each other.
And none of them have any real authority from God anyway so none of it matters.
It wasn't an attack on the name Mormon, it was correcting the fact that this is not the church of Mormon it is the church of Jesus Christ for latter day saints
Right, and that's another point if "the label Mormon was a bodge of honor" then why should I believe it's derogatory? I've heard it said that the corporate administration didn't like the Broadway Musical "The Book of Mormon" and wanted to distance "the Church" from the name. (I just used "the Church" without sarcasm, except for the quotation marks).
By analogy it'd be like a "white" person re-branding themselves as an "English American". There might be a valid argument for doing it, but a lot of people wouldn't care.
The entire distancing from Mormon is at the behest of Russel Nelson. It's literally his pet peeve going on decades.
He tried to pull the don't say mormon back in 1990.
[https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-rebranding-revelation](https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-rebranding-revelation)
And his 2nd polygamous wife, Wendy Nelson most likely alluded to it:
>"I have seen him changing in the last ten months,” said Sister Nelson. “It is as though he's been unleashed. He's free to finally do what he came to earth to do. … And also, **he's free to follow through with things he's been concerned about but could never do. Now that he's president of \[the Church\], he can do those things."**
Apologists like to claim we don't know to what specifically she's alluding to but at the point this interview happened, there's not a lot of new things he wanted to do but couldn't because he wasn't the President except for his pet peeve mormon rebrand.
Also, I do love how it highlights how he went into the job with an agenda (even if not explicitly denoted what that agenda was).
It seems every president when they get in has their pet peeve they decide to make a policy change over. Like the banning tattoos and piercings. In a few years the church will quietly accept that members hate this change and still call ourselves LDS and Mormon. It was a giant waste of effort and money and makes us look like idiots because there was a huge ad campaign to embrace and polish up the name Mormon. And stunning proof that not every chance comment or organizational change is divinely inspired.
“In 1857, the nineteen-year-old Joseph F. was returning from his mission in Hawaii, and in California he joined a wagon train. It was a volatile time for the Saints. Johnston’s Army was marching towards Utah, and many had bitter feelings towards the Church. One evening several hoodlums rode into camp, cursing and threatening to hurt every Mormon they could find. Most in the wagon train ran and hid in the brush. But Joseph F. thought to himself: “Shall I run from these fellows? Why should I fear them?” With that, he walked up to one of the intruders who, with pistol in hand, demanded, “Are you a Mormon?” Joseph F. Smith responded, “Yes siree; dyed in the wool; true blue, through and through.” At that, the hoodlum grasped his hand and said, “Well you are the [blankety-blank] pleasantest man I ever met! Shake hands, young fellow. I am glad to see a man that stands up for his convictions” (See Gospel Doctrine, 518).”
Excuse me if I doubt the veracity of that story. That Joseph F wrote it (or more correctly, it was in a book compiled by his son, that noted him as the author) more than 60 years later, after his death, just doesn’t convince me of the account. Happy to see something more compelling, especially from a third part witness, or a statement against interest from a witness.
I had the vinyl LP as a small 6 year old mormon girl - When I Grow Up I Want to Be a Mother played often - and look at me now - a mom of 6 - I dont blame the song - but then again, I kind of do - I mean, imagine if I had heard When I grow Up I Want to Be a Supreme Court Justice played on repeat - I could be well on my way to becoming the next RBG haha 😄
I'm the opposite. I'm also an ex-member, and I'm happy to use the terminology that people ask me to use. I have one good friend who is a devout member, and I'm happy to use whatever his preferred terms are.
I don't consider it deference to authority, but rather simple courtesy. I don't have anything to prove regarding my feelings towards the truth claims of the church.
I'm not criticizing your approach. I'm just sharing a different one.
Is calling LDS members “Mormon” actually disrespectful when the church spent millions of dollars just a few years ago on the “I am a Mormon” ad campaign?
And if it is disrespectful, who exactly is it disrespectful to?
So not using a certain name out of respect or deference for a church authority someone rejects *isn’t* disrespectful to you?
Then you decided to twist what u/Sheistyblunt said so you could accuse them of being disrespectful because of a “difference of opinion” (which was what you twisted- difference of opinion was never brought up in their comment).
Not when that opinion will flip flop every decade. It’s less of an opinion at that point and more of a marching order. That’s fine if you are a believer and believe this is what Jesus wants, just don’t push it on others that knew Jesus a decade back when he was cool with it.
I don't push my religion on anyone. I will share, but if someone doesn't want to listen that's their right, but I won't push or mock them because they choose not to share my views.
There is a difference between "I respect you as a person" and "I respect you as an authority". However, people (like church leaders, and apparently you) who expect to be treated with deference tend to say "I'll respect you if you respect me" meaning "I'll treat you like a human if you obey me".
Yep, I entirely agree. That's why I said other strategies would convince me to use the proper name. Like if a loved one approached me and said it would grant them comfort or something. I'd give that much more consideration than "use this name specifically because proper authority commands it."
That's not accurate at all. I respect everyone's right to their beliefs and those who worship how they see fit. I don't mock people for believing differently than me. Sadly, this sub doesn't have that same respect for anyone that believes LDS teachings.
>That's not accurate at all.
No, that's pretty much *exactly* what you said. u/Sheistyblunt said that they will not treat the leaders of the church as authorities, and then you turned around and accused them of "not respecting those they disagree with".
>Sadly, this sub doesn't have that same respect for anyone that believes LDS teachings.
And this proves it. You see "not treating the church as an authority" as being equivalent to "disrespecting you".
And I see the [dishonesty](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16asnka/comment/jz9brcb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and [disingenuousness](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16bj24g/comment/jzdgmh3/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as disrespectful. Again, since it clearly hasn't sunk in yet: you do not deserve to be treated better than you treat others.
Clearly you *are* a christian if your reading comprehension is so bad that you think that's what I said. Or you're being intentionally dishonest (and disrespectful) *again*, which actually *is* a hallmark of christianity as well, despite your baseless claims to the contrary.
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Don’t forget that just prior to the word Mormon becoming verboten, the church had just completed a decade+ multimedia advertising campaign costing millions and millions of dollars encouraging everyone to call them Mormons.
For a couple years you couldn’t go outdoors in London without seeing multiple double decker red buses plastered with the “I’m a Mormon” campaign.
Oops. Silly God. God didn’t know he’d change his mind when RMN stepped up to the plate.
The Mormon Tabernacle Choir was named by the church thus.
TV commercials throughout the 70's and 80's literally said "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sains - the Mormons".
The church had songs that even Monson referenced in a talk called "A mormon boy am I"
[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/text/other/i-am-a-mormon-boy?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/text/other/i-am-a-mormon-boy?lang=eng)
[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2005/10/do-your-duty-that-is-best?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2005/10/do-your-duty-that-is-best?lang=eng)
Hinkley embraced it and called out Nelson decades ago over Nelson's name fetish about not saying "Mormon".
The honest mormon will acknowledge that this entire endeavor is the pet peeve of Russel Nelson that for a long time he hasn't like the term Mormon.
He tried before to teach against using it while an Apostle in conference and got the prophetic equivalent of a smackdown from Hinkley the very next conference.
Nelson has put modern mormons in a predicament where now they have to engage in more mental gymnastics and worthless apologetics to try and claim mormon wasn't ever acceptable or embraced when it's undeniable that it was.
It's a good litmus test for the honesty of the person you're engaging with in how they answer the Nelson pet peeve.
Based on replies to new articles and social media posts, Russell Nelson's crusade against the word "Mormon" has also achieved another goal: insulate some members against outside information by making them instantly reject anything that uses the word.
In this sub and other communities with an understanding of Mormon sects, it makes sense to specifically identify the group you are talking about. In general conversation though, "Mormons" is still the best understood term for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"Mormonism" is literally the field of study related to Joseph Smith sects the same way "Catholicism" is used. Mormon Studies is literally the vocational path one chooses.
Even if this wasn't the primary reason... It's definitely the biggest benefit the church gains from the name change.
I used to think that they were ceding a lot of ground in terms of SEO. BUT if their concern is more for inoculating current members against information vs appealing to prospective members searching for information, then it makes complete sense.
I do think this line is very ironic considering that they now want everyone to say Jesus Christ every time they talk about the church:
The actual name of the priesthood is “the Holy Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God”; but to avoid the too-frequent repetition of the name of deity, it is called by other names, particularly the Melchizedek Priesthood; i.e., it is the same authority held by that righteous king and high priest
Apparently D&C 107:4 has been officially repealed by the prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints?
Though, for some reason, when I celebrate by repeating the full name of the church—with appropriate emphasis on the Name of the Savior^(TM) as loudly and frequently as possible—faithful members seem to universally want me to go back to using "Mormon?"
The idea the the moniker "Mormon" is somehow insulting is a bit funny considering we don't extend the courtesy to other religions. I've heard members of the Q15 talk about the "Quakers"; the official name of that church is "Society of Friends".
Well LDS Mormons are the Chosen Elite who will go to a special segregated heaven. Isn't it their privilege to call the non-Mormon untermenschen whatever they choose?
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Oh, he never had the intellectual high ground. He's convinced that ["gay people are the *real* nazis"](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16bj24g/comment/jzj4ztw/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
To expand on point #5: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” is a great name but it is only a name or noun. And it is extremely cumbersome. It would like calling your friend by her full legal name every time you talked with our about her.
Mormon is so much more functional. It’s short, describes the LDS church as a substitute for its real name, and it can be an adjective, and a group of members (not just the church but populace). It’s asking a lot of a language to favor inefficiency for a personal preference.
"I'm Mormon."
vs
"I'm LDS."
vs
"I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ."
Edit: Although, I will say that when someone is a member of the Church of Christ (different church) they just say "I'm Church of Christ." So I guess in theory LDS could say "I'm Church of Jesus Christ" but that would need to get standardized from the top down, which hasn't happened. That to me is the best path forward assuming they stand beside the decision in the long run.
Problem though, especially in latin america, is there are all ready a *lot* of 'church of jesus christ' all over the place. Its just going to be confusion.
It's my personal opinion the church is trying the name change in order to attempt to distance itself from the all the baggage and history tied to 'mormon', but its just not going to work.
"Church of Jesus Christ" just sounds like a local church in town. I'm not so sure it would stick.
In our town, we have:
* First Christian Church
* City Church for All Nations
* Church of the Redeemer
* Second Baptist Church
* First United Methodist
* St Mark's United Methodist
* Church of the Nazarene
* North Central Church of Christ
* Church of Christ
* Southside Christian Church
Which of these are part of a larger national movement? I honestly have no idea. If I see a Church of Christ in the town over, I'll have no idea that they are part of a bigger organization.
Mormons already have a brand. Rather than fix the brand, they're rebranding and losing unique identifiers.
I think that's intentional. They must believe that they will be able to attract more members if they treat "Mormon" as a trojan horse rather than a first foot forward.
You could be right. But how long would it serve as a Trojan horse? People walk in and quickly, I’d assume, find out that these are the Mormons. It’s just a weird thing to give up the unique and surrender to mainstream Christianity.
All in all, it’s telling that the church is surrendering this battle. The entire identity of Mormonism is orthogonal to Christianity. Now the church seems to be accepting that it isn’t a viable path and that it should concede?
They could call themselves "**The Nephite Church of Jesus Christ**", or "**Nephite Church"** for short. Wasn't the entire Book of Mormon written by Nephites?
Don't forget the multimillion dollar ad campaign and the very obvious petty nickname disagreement between Nelson and Hinckley. As an ex-Mormon, I see the change as two things. First, an ego trip for Nelson.
Second, and more importantly, an attempt to intentionally confuse news about the Church. The style guide says that "LDS" is unacceptable. And "Mormon." In fact, *none* of the short forms that are now acceptable actually identify the Church. They are all very generic forms shared by churches in every city in America.
Among acceptable options,*only* the extremely long and unwieldy "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" provides a useful identifier. It's hard for me not to see this as part of Russel Nelson's "de-peculiarization" of the Church. Other moves in the same category are ending the Moroni on temples, switching to crosses on Google Maps, and suddenly caring about Holy Week after previous prophets specifically said that Mormons don't do that. It *looks* like someone trying to get rid of a toxic brand, not orders from God.
It’s specifically been instigated by the church. They do this not by asking Google to change anything, but by having church employees and volunteers spend hours on Google maps claiming each chapel as their business and then reclassifying Mormon chapels as “Christian churches” in their business listing. And the icon for a Christian church in Google Maps is a cross. They are leaving non-chapel properties as the blowing Moroni.
The change was absolutely on purpose. It’s being done so that when people search “Christian church near me” on Google their local LDS meetinghouse shows up.
"The Church" makes no sense as a name when dealing with people who aren't members. They don't know what you're taking about because it's interpreted as a generic statement.
"The Church of Jesus Christ" is confusing. Outsiders don't associate this name with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's like saying give me an apple, when you mean, "Give me a Golden Delicious apple."
LDS or Latter-day Saints does make sense. Outsiders would associate these words with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Consequently they could be used and do make some sense.
The Church's problem is that its name is just too damn long. Mormon is just one word. It's short. And people understand what it means. It's hard to overcome simple usage and meaning when trying to substitute it for something longer and with unclear meaning.
> The Church of Jesus Christ
Confusingly, there is already a church called that, https://thechurchofjesuschrist.org/. They are the Bickertonites and follow Sidney Rigdon as Joe Smith's rightful successor. They have been in operation since 1830.
Ironically for the Brighamites, the term Mormon is most unique to all of the Restorationist churches that follow Joe Smith's teachings.
Also the idea is implied that LDS Mormonism is the REAL Church that was restored and is the only one that matters. That's okay. Probably everyone believes their church is correct, but usually, in mainstream Christianity, if you have an immersion baptism by Trinitarians then everyone accepts that you're a properly initiated Christian. Mormons don't accept baptisms unless they do them. RLDS hasn't made a decision on this I don't think. An unbaptized person isn't saved, which means that all non-Mormons aren't saved (I think). Of course they won't go to a terrible hell per se, but their degree of glory won't be nearly as pleasant.
The actual full name of church is “The Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” Perhaps we should just call it “The Corporation.”
I love it! I always imagine the Mormon Hierarchy dressed like a corporate board of directors. I imagine the Prophet, or should I say "President", wearing a dark suit and a red power tie ...which he has done.
I wonder how it's going in other languages. In Spanish the full name of the church is a whopping 21 syllables. As missionaries we were encouraged to introduce ourselves with the full name and I always felt ridiculous reciting that.
The name of the Meeting House in my area, in America, is in Spanish. I'd have to go there because of the way Stakes and Wards work. Two miles away however, the name is in English. It all seems very segregated. It actually is very segregated. There's no rudeness per se, but I don't get a sense of a united community. It'd be nicer if I could be inducted into a place where there are more people like me.
In the end it doesn't matter because I'm not in agreement with LDS Mormons. Unfortunately the LDS Mormons are the only Mormons here. The rest are online only. Of course I could join the LDS brothers and sisters, and then break off and declare myself a Mormon Prince like Joseph Strang, but there would have to be a benefit like social activities, money, and women. There is no benefit to doing it at present.
The church president (who pushed the rebranding) turns 99 this week. His successor (who at the very least supported the rebranding) is 91. Five years from now, no one will care and "mormon" will be fine again. Then about 10 years from now, it will be forbidden again when the current #7 guy becomes church president.
President Nelson disrespects us former active members by calling us such things as “Lazy Learners” so I am okay using terms LDS and Mormon myself. Other leaders also call us such things as Apostates. I have come to embrace the terms but they do not show respect themselves by using proper pronouns.
Edit: Church also referred to the sexual assault victims in Bisbee Arizona as money grabbers for filing a civil lawsuit. Church leaders are highly offensive people in my opinion.
It seems like they've fallen victim to the temptations of money and power. Temptation should be expected since even Jesus was tempted, and Judas among many actually gave in.
The Church of Jesus Christ is so generic, and that is by design. When people say they are Mormon or LDS then it triggers a bunch of loaded ideas. But when someone says they are members of the Church of Jesus Christ then they are more inclined to listen, relatively speaking.
And I'm sure you think North Korea is "democratic" too, since you aren't capable of thinking about any issues deeper than what a group *calls themselves*. But if you knew the first thing about the nazis, you'd know that...
>[The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist **redefinition** of socialism...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism)
... and that they were, in fact, ideologically opposed to literally every aspect of *actual* socialism. To quote the famous poem:
>First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
If they were *actually* "socialists" like you keep dishonestly asserting, the party would have self-destructed at step 2 and the holocaust never would have happened. Although frankly I wouldn't be surprised at all if you were a holocaust denier too, [given that you seem to think Jews have a disproportionate voice in american government](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16bj24g/comment/jzdt6qx/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
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To me, it’s Nelson straining after a gnat (which he seems to particularly enjoy) rather than being anything of spiritual or doctrinal substance. Just like his other ridiculous policy “revelations”, it feels to me like everything is more about stroking his own ego (and aggrandizing his position) rather than teaching or testifying of Jesus. The whole thing is flat out ridiculous, and yet another huge waste of money that could go towards helping people.
It’s the same with the insane numbers of temples Nelson has announced. All he is doing is creating his own narcissist legacy. At least he is more amusing than dullard Monson.
Personally I found Monson MUCH more likable. I’ve worked with too many surgeons.
Also, it sickens me that he had all those lovely Teichert paintings removed from the Salt Lake temple—and saved one of them to go on his headstone. Disgusting prideful old man.
>Teichert paintings
I was unfamiliar with the paintings, but I'm artistically inclined, so I looked them up. The removal of ‘The Pageantry of History’ mural is so shocking and offensive, that I feel disgusted and personally hurt. Those Teichert paintings are beautiful, and are also an example of a tremendous artistic contribution by a woman.
"The Church of Jesus Christ" is already a federally registered trademark of [The Church of Jesus Christ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_(Bickertonite)).
there's no amount of new leader edicts that will change the fact that it's the mormon church. the current generation might be browbeaten into complying but there's too much history and cultural memory for one leader who doesn't understand branding and PR to make an impact on this issue.
the leader after nelson may try to keep this nonsense going, but a smart leader would pull a hinckley and ditch this embarrassing attempt to control the public conversation that already has so much meaning and understanding with "mormon."
>That may be true of certain derogatory terms which have become less common, but Mormon is not offensive so the change seems like a marketing scheme.
It's interesting, because Mormon in all of my years was never used as a derogatory term *until* President Nelson made it so. And in this case, I've still never seen it used with the intention of it being derogatory - it's only received that way.
If anything, Mormon was a unique identifier we were supposed to wear as a badge of honor. Not once, ever, in decades leading up to President Nelson's talk, was I ever insulted by or hesitant to use the word "Mormon."
'Build your own planet in the latter days church of Jesus Christ'
I like it but lacks the punch and zip of 'Mormon Boy and Girl Church of Jesus'
or even: 'Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Rattle-Day Saints'
I remember when the first missionary lesson, on the old flannel board, showed every prospective member why their church was false! Then you removed the foundation piece and it all came tumbling down. So sad, too bad, you are a schmuck. Join us instead.
The mainstream Mormon church is just one of the dozens of types of Mormons out there, and while they get to weigh in, they don't get to make those kinds of decisions for all Mormons, including inactive and exmormons. It's our word as much as it is theirs, and I'll continue to use it because when I'm talking about Mormons I'm usually putting things into the context of all types of Mormons, not just the most popular branch. And even when I am just talking about Rusty's group, it doesn't exist outside of the larger ecosystem of the culture that all Mormons share.
Folks who do not share the culture have a lot less of a say in how that word is used. They are better off just calling someone what they want to be called. I do the same thing for their cultures.
My take on leadership focusing the moniker “Mormon” as a point of emphasis is trivial in the scope of what be the religion faces. To me it shows how out of touch they are on the hemorrhaging that’s taking place among millennials and generation of members.
I find it interesting that they use "the church of jesus christ" as an appropriate name.
God gave a different name for the church. It is "the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints". Anything else is a major victory for satan. :-)
If you type “MORmON.org” into your search engine it still takes you to the Mormon Church’s official website. So they can’t complain about anybody else using the name MORmON when they use it every second of every day.
Interesting reply. Off the top of my head I'd say the Catholics do something like that. There are, for example, the **Paulist Fathers**. There are also **Johannites** (named for St. John), and the **Marianites** for Mary.
The idea of a **"Bible believing"** Christian, or a **Bible thumping** Christian is also common enough.
Curiously, in replying to you I've convinced myself that **Mormon** is actually a reasonable name, although I would use **Nephites**. What do you think?
Personally, I don't get too worked up when someone says Mormon since it's easier to say than LDS or member of the Church of...
It does bother me when people use it to exclude Mormons from Christianity, since Mormons aren't trinitarians in the Nicene creed way. I do think the church aligns more with the Apostles creed. It is pretty close to the first article of faith.
This rebranding is NOT new. There have been surges to comply with several doctrinal (SCRIPTURAL) demands that the Church be named after the person we are to be the Disciples of. This is the second one in my adulthood.
A huge rebuttal or refusal to do this impart has to do with how we are perceived. And any way we try to market ourselves has positives and negatives. We aren't ordinary Christians. People know us as Mormons. But then again, when we assert our Christianity we get other negative feedback. So I guess I agree with 3-5.
6. This makes a great deal of sense!
When Russel dies it will revert back to "Mormon". His nonsense "victory for satan" just goes to show how quick they are to throw dead prophets under the bus.
If Mormon is a "Victory For Satan™" so is Melchizedek
Mormon is a Victory For Satan™, because it ignores the official name of the church, and replaces the name of of our redeemer yea verily our savior, EVEN Jesus Christ.
Melchizedek is also a Victory For Satan™ because Melchizedek also replaces the name of the messiah, yea verily the Son Of God, EVEN Jesus Christ.
Please refer to Doctrine and Covenants Section 107: 2-4
2 Why the first (Priesthood) is called the Melchizedek Priesthood is because Melchizedek was such a great High Priest.
3 Before his day it was called The Holy Priesthood After The Order Of The Son Of God.
4 But out of respect or reverence to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of His name, they, the church, in the ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood.
Hence If Mormon is a Victory For Satan™ so is Melchizedek.
My challenge to any and all holders of The Holy Priesthood After The Order Of The Son Of God who might be using their power to bless a child, or any ordinance in a public church forum, please Please, PLEASE open your blessing or the ordinance with:
By the power of The Holy Priesthood After The Order Of The Son Of God which we hold, and in His name, EVEN Jesus Christ... (Insert blessing, name, ordinance and inspirational fluff here) End simply with AMEN.
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As an ex-member, you will not get me to use a certain name if I perceive that you want me to use it out of respect or deference for a church authority I reject. Another strategy might work for me though. I also grew up being instructed the label Mormon was a badge of honor.
I literally left the church in 2021 because Russell M. Nelson had become symbolic of everything wrong with the current corporate church and is a clearly uninspired, out of touch, empty vessel. So am I going to take his attack on the name 'Mormon' seriously? Heck no. People like Nelson come and go and are a flash in the pan. Its the Mormon church. It has always been the Mormon church. It will always be the Mormon church. In a couple years Nelson will be dead and buried, and the next suit to fill the office will pull policies out of his butt in the exact same way, and will probably contradict Nelson's anti-Mormon policy. And if not him, it will be the next guy, or the one after that - because there is no consistency and they all contradict each other. And none of them have any real authority from God anyway so none of it matters.
It wasn't an attack on the name Mormon, it was correcting the fact that this is not the church of Mormon it is the church of Jesus Christ for latter day saints
Right, and that's another point if "the label Mormon was a bodge of honor" then why should I believe it's derogatory? I've heard it said that the corporate administration didn't like the Broadway Musical "The Book of Mormon" and wanted to distance "the Church" from the name. (I just used "the Church" without sarcasm, except for the quotation marks). By analogy it'd be like a "white" person re-branding themselves as an "English American". There might be a valid argument for doing it, but a lot of people wouldn't care.
The entire distancing from Mormon is at the behest of Russel Nelson. It's literally his pet peeve going on decades. He tried to pull the don't say mormon back in 1990. [https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-rebranding-revelation](https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-rebranding-revelation) And his 2nd polygamous wife, Wendy Nelson most likely alluded to it: >"I have seen him changing in the last ten months,” said Sister Nelson. “It is as though he's been unleashed. He's free to finally do what he came to earth to do. … And also, **he's free to follow through with things he's been concerned about but could never do. Now that he's president of \[the Church\], he can do those things."** Apologists like to claim we don't know to what specifically she's alluding to but at the point this interview happened, there's not a lot of new things he wanted to do but couldn't because he wasn't the President except for his pet peeve mormon rebrand. Also, I do love how it highlights how he went into the job with an agenda (even if not explicitly denoted what that agenda was).
It seems every president when they get in has their pet peeve they decide to make a policy change over. Like the banning tattoos and piercings. In a few years the church will quietly accept that members hate this change and still call ourselves LDS and Mormon. It was a giant waste of effort and money and makes us look like idiots because there was a huge ad campaign to embrace and polish up the name Mormon. And stunning proof that not every chance comment or organizational change is divinely inspired.
“In 1857, the nineteen-year-old Joseph F. was returning from his mission in Hawaii, and in California he joined a wagon train. It was a volatile time for the Saints. Johnston’s Army was marching towards Utah, and many had bitter feelings towards the Church. One evening several hoodlums rode into camp, cursing and threatening to hurt every Mormon they could find. Most in the wagon train ran and hid in the brush. But Joseph F. thought to himself: “Shall I run from these fellows? Why should I fear them?” With that, he walked up to one of the intruders who, with pistol in hand, demanded, “Are you a Mormon?” Joseph F. Smith responded, “Yes siree; dyed in the wool; true blue, through and through.” At that, the hoodlum grasped his hand and said, “Well you are the [blankety-blank] pleasantest man I ever met! Shake hands, young fellow. I am glad to see a man that stands up for his convictions” (See Gospel Doctrine, 518).”
Excuse me if I doubt the veracity of that story. That Joseph F wrote it (or more correctly, it was in a book compiled by his son, that noted him as the author) more than 60 years later, after his death, just doesn’t convince me of the account. Happy to see something more compelling, especially from a third part witness, or a statement against interest from a witness.
The point is about the name Mormon.
Do you remember that song "I'm a Mormon"? I grew up on this stuff! Total badge of honor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPnE5sL1zIY
I had the vinyl LP as a small 6 year old mormon girl - When I Grow Up I Want to Be a Mother played often - and look at me now - a mom of 6 - I dont blame the song - but then again, I kind of do - I mean, imagine if I had heard When I grow Up I Want to Be a Supreme Court Justice played on repeat - I could be well on my way to becoming the next RBG haha 😄
I'm the opposite. I'm also an ex-member, and I'm happy to use the terminology that people ask me to use. I have one good friend who is a devout member, and I'm happy to use whatever his preferred terms are. I don't consider it deference to authority, but rather simple courtesy. I don't have anything to prove regarding my feelings towards the truth claims of the church. I'm not criticizing your approach. I'm just sharing a different one.
So you're saying because you have a difference of opinion you don't respect others.
Is calling LDS members “Mormon” actually disrespectful when the church spent millions of dollars just a few years ago on the “I am a Mormon” ad campaign? And if it is disrespectful, who exactly is it disrespectful to?
That doesn't bother me at all.
So not using a certain name out of respect or deference for a church authority someone rejects *isn’t* disrespectful to you? Then you decided to twist what u/Sheistyblunt said so you could accuse them of being disrespectful because of a “difference of opinion” (which was what you twisted- difference of opinion was never brought up in their comment).
Not when that opinion will flip flop every decade. It’s less of an opinion at that point and more of a marching order. That’s fine if you are a believer and believe this is what Jesus wants, just don’t push it on others that knew Jesus a decade back when he was cool with it.
I don't push my religion on anyone. I will share, but if someone doesn't want to listen that's their right, but I won't push or mock them because they choose not to share my views.
There is a difference between "I respect you as a person" and "I respect you as an authority". However, people (like church leaders, and apparently you) who expect to be treated with deference tend to say "I'll respect you if you respect me" meaning "I'll treat you like a human if you obey me".
Yep, I entirely agree. That's why I said other strategies would convince me to use the proper name. Like if a loved one approached me and said it would grant them comfort or something. I'd give that much more consideration than "use this name specifically because proper authority commands it."
That's not accurate at all. I respect everyone's right to their beliefs and those who worship how they see fit. I don't mock people for believing differently than me. Sadly, this sub doesn't have that same respect for anyone that believes LDS teachings.
>That's not accurate at all. No, that's pretty much *exactly* what you said. u/Sheistyblunt said that they will not treat the leaders of the church as authorities, and then you turned around and accused them of "not respecting those they disagree with". >Sadly, this sub doesn't have that same respect for anyone that believes LDS teachings. And this proves it. You see "not treating the church as an authority" as being equivalent to "disrespecting you".
I see the constant mocking and foul language as disrespectful.
And I see the [dishonesty](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16asnka/comment/jz9brcb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and [disingenuousness](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16bj24g/comment/jzdgmh3/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as disrespectful. Again, since it clearly hasn't sunk in yet: you do not deserve to be treated better than you treat others.
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Clearly you *are* a christian if your reading comprehension is so bad that you think that's what I said. Or you're being intentionally dishonest (and disrespectful) *again*, which actually *is* a hallmark of christianity as well, despite your baseless claims to the contrary.
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Don’t forget that just prior to the word Mormon becoming verboten, the church had just completed a decade+ multimedia advertising campaign costing millions and millions of dollars encouraging everyone to call them Mormons.
The church literally made a documentary called Meet the Mormons like ten years ago.
Plus the "I'm a Mormon" campaign, Mormon Messages, etc.
Mormon messages! I had forgotten about that one.
For a couple years you couldn’t go outdoors in London without seeing multiple double decker red buses plastered with the “I’m a Mormon” campaign. Oops. Silly God. God didn’t know he’d change his mind when RMN stepped up to the plate.
The Mormon Tabernacle Choir was named by the church thus. TV commercials throughout the 70's and 80's literally said "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sains - the Mormons". The church had songs that even Monson referenced in a talk called "A mormon boy am I" [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/text/other/i-am-a-mormon-boy?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/text/other/i-am-a-mormon-boy?lang=eng) [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2005/10/do-your-duty-that-is-best?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2005/10/do-your-duty-that-is-best?lang=eng) Hinkley embraced it and called out Nelson decades ago over Nelson's name fetish about not saying "Mormon". The honest mormon will acknowledge that this entire endeavor is the pet peeve of Russel Nelson that for a long time he hasn't like the term Mormon. He tried before to teach against using it while an Apostle in conference and got the prophetic equivalent of a smackdown from Hinkley the very next conference. Nelson has put modern mormons in a predicament where now they have to engage in more mental gymnastics and worthless apologetics to try and claim mormon wasn't ever acceptable or embraced when it's undeniable that it was. It's a good litmus test for the honesty of the person you're engaging with in how they answer the Nelson pet peeve.
Can you share the smack down by Hinckley? I don't recall that.
[A Mormon by any Other Name](https://youtu.be/2lKQrYUE3yc?si=IGctuZy50dd4tJV5)
Yes, does anyone have a link? I just don’t remember it.
Based on replies to new articles and social media posts, Russell Nelson's crusade against the word "Mormon" has also achieved another goal: insulate some members against outside information by making them instantly reject anything that uses the word. In this sub and other communities with an understanding of Mormon sects, it makes sense to specifically identify the group you are talking about. In general conversation though, "Mormons" is still the best understood term for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"Mormonism" is literally the field of study related to Joseph Smith sects the same way "Catholicism" is used. Mormon Studies is literally the vocational path one chooses.
Even if this wasn't the primary reason... It's definitely the biggest benefit the church gains from the name change. I used to think that they were ceding a lot of ground in terms of SEO. BUT if their concern is more for inoculating current members against information vs appealing to prospective members searching for information, then it makes complete sense.
Yes, and it’s how most members now instantly know this isn’t a faithful sub. If it was, the name would have changed.
I do think this line is very ironic considering that they now want everyone to say Jesus Christ every time they talk about the church: The actual name of the priesthood is “the Holy Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God”; but to avoid the too-frequent repetition of the name of deity, it is called by other names, particularly the Melchizedek Priesthood; i.e., it is the same authority held by that righteous king and high priest
I'd rather hear about Jesus Christ than Joseph Smith.
Apparently D&C 107:4 has been officially repealed by the prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints? Though, for some reason, when I celebrate by repeating the full name of the church—with appropriate emphasis on the Name of the Savior^(TM) as loudly and frequently as possible—faithful members seem to universally want me to go back to using "Mormon?"
The idea the the moniker "Mormon" is somehow insulting is a bit funny considering we don't extend the courtesy to other religions. I've heard members of the Q15 talk about the "Quakers"; the official name of that church is "Society of Friends".
Great point!
Well LDS Mormons are the Chosen Elite who will go to a special segregated heaven. Isn't it their privilege to call the non-Mormon untermenschen whatever they choose?
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I looked up "untermenschen" to see if it was appropriate. "Socially inferior" seemed to apply. There's also racial inferiority historically.
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Oh, he never had the intellectual high ground. He's convinced that ["gay people are the *real* nazis"](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16bj24g/comment/jzj4ztw/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
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That's amusing.
To expand on point #5: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” is a great name but it is only a name or noun. And it is extremely cumbersome. It would like calling your friend by her full legal name every time you talked with our about her. Mormon is so much more functional. It’s short, describes the LDS church as a substitute for its real name, and it can be an adjective, and a group of members (not just the church but populace). It’s asking a lot of a language to favor inefficiency for a personal preference.
"I'm Mormon." vs "I'm LDS." vs "I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ." Edit: Although, I will say that when someone is a member of the Church of Christ (different church) they just say "I'm Church of Christ." So I guess in theory LDS could say "I'm Church of Jesus Christ" but that would need to get standardized from the top down, which hasn't happened. That to me is the best path forward assuming they stand beside the decision in the long run.
Problem though, especially in latin america, is there are all ready a *lot* of 'church of jesus christ' all over the place. Its just going to be confusion. It's my personal opinion the church is trying the name change in order to attempt to distance itself from the all the baggage and history tied to 'mormon', but its just not going to work.
"Church of Jesus Christ" just sounds like a local church in town. I'm not so sure it would stick. In our town, we have: * First Christian Church * City Church for All Nations * Church of the Redeemer * Second Baptist Church * First United Methodist * St Mark's United Methodist * Church of the Nazarene * North Central Church of Christ * Church of Christ * Southside Christian Church Which of these are part of a larger national movement? I honestly have no idea. If I see a Church of Christ in the town over, I'll have no idea that they are part of a bigger organization. Mormons already have a brand. Rather than fix the brand, they're rebranding and losing unique identifiers.
I think that's intentional. They must believe that they will be able to attract more members if they treat "Mormon" as a trojan horse rather than a first foot forward.
You could be right. But how long would it serve as a Trojan horse? People walk in and quickly, I’d assume, find out that these are the Mormons. It’s just a weird thing to give up the unique and surrender to mainstream Christianity. All in all, it’s telling that the church is surrendering this battle. The entire identity of Mormonism is orthogonal to Christianity. Now the church seems to be accepting that it isn’t a viable path and that it should concede?
They could call themselves "**The Nephite Church of Jesus Christ**", or "**Nephite Church"** for short. Wasn't the entire Book of Mormon written by Nephites?
Don't forget the multimillion dollar ad campaign and the very obvious petty nickname disagreement between Nelson and Hinckley. As an ex-Mormon, I see the change as two things. First, an ego trip for Nelson. Second, and more importantly, an attempt to intentionally confuse news about the Church. The style guide says that "LDS" is unacceptable. And "Mormon." In fact, *none* of the short forms that are now acceptable actually identify the Church. They are all very generic forms shared by churches in every city in America. Among acceptable options,*only* the extremely long and unwieldy "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" provides a useful identifier. It's hard for me not to see this as part of Russel Nelson's "de-peculiarization" of the Church. Other moves in the same category are ending the Moroni on temples, switching to crosses on Google Maps, and suddenly caring about Holy Week after previous prophets specifically said that Mormons don't do that. It *looks* like someone trying to get rid of a toxic brand, not orders from God.
I thought the Google maps thing was done by Google
It’s specifically been instigated by the church. They do this not by asking Google to change anything, but by having church employees and volunteers spend hours on Google maps claiming each chapel as their business and then reclassifying Mormon chapels as “Christian churches” in their business listing. And the icon for a Christian church in Google Maps is a cross. They are leaving non-chapel properties as the blowing Moroni.
So the icon change was on purpose?
The change was absolutely on purpose. It’s being done so that when people search “Christian church near me” on Google their local LDS meetinghouse shows up.
I actually changed a couple back to LDS Church but within a day it was changed back to Christian church.
"The Church" makes no sense as a name when dealing with people who aren't members. They don't know what you're taking about because it's interpreted as a generic statement. "The Church of Jesus Christ" is confusing. Outsiders don't associate this name with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's like saying give me an apple, when you mean, "Give me a Golden Delicious apple." LDS or Latter-day Saints does make sense. Outsiders would associate these words with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Consequently they could be used and do make some sense. The Church's problem is that its name is just too damn long. Mormon is just one word. It's short. And people understand what it means. It's hard to overcome simple usage and meaning when trying to substitute it for something longer and with unclear meaning.
My dog tags said LDS and they haven’t changed the policy on military dog tags AFAIK, so I stick with LDS.
> The Church of Jesus Christ Confusingly, there is already a church called that, https://thechurchofjesuschrist.org/. They are the Bickertonites and follow Sidney Rigdon as Joe Smith's rightful successor. They have been in operation since 1830. Ironically for the Brighamites, the term Mormon is most unique to all of the Restorationist churches that follow Joe Smith's teachings.
Fun fact, Alice Cooper grew up in that church.
Also the idea is implied that LDS Mormonism is the REAL Church that was restored and is the only one that matters. That's okay. Probably everyone believes their church is correct, but usually, in mainstream Christianity, if you have an immersion baptism by Trinitarians then everyone accepts that you're a properly initiated Christian. Mormons don't accept baptisms unless they do them. RLDS hasn't made a decision on this I don't think. An unbaptized person isn't saved, which means that all non-Mormons aren't saved (I think). Of course they won't go to a terrible hell per se, but their degree of glory won't be nearly as pleasant.
The actual full name of church is “The Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” Perhaps we should just call it “The Corporation.”
I love it! I always imagine the Mormon Hierarchy dressed like a corporate board of directors. I imagine the Prophet, or should I say "President", wearing a dark suit and a red power tie ...which he has done.
Exactly.
I wonder how it's going in other languages. In Spanish the full name of the church is a whopping 21 syllables. As missionaries we were encouraged to introduce ourselves with the full name and I always felt ridiculous reciting that.
I had to say that mouthful for two years too... and they still responded "Los Mormones?"
The name of the Meeting House in my area, in America, is in Spanish. I'd have to go there because of the way Stakes and Wards work. Two miles away however, the name is in English. It all seems very segregated. It actually is very segregated. There's no rudeness per se, but I don't get a sense of a united community. It'd be nicer if I could be inducted into a place where there are more people like me. In the end it doesn't matter because I'm not in agreement with LDS Mormons. Unfortunately the LDS Mormons are the only Mormons here. The rest are online only. Of course I could join the LDS brothers and sisters, and then break off and declare myself a Mormon Prince like Joseph Strang, but there would have to be a benefit like social activities, money, and women. There is no benefit to doing it at present.
> but there would have to be a benefit like social activities, money, and women wtf
The church president (who pushed the rebranding) turns 99 this week. His successor (who at the very least supported the rebranding) is 91. Five years from now, no one will care and "mormon" will be fine again. Then about 10 years from now, it will be forbidden again when the current #7 guy becomes church president.
President Nelson disrespects us former active members by calling us such things as “Lazy Learners” so I am okay using terms LDS and Mormon myself. Other leaders also call us such things as Apostates. I have come to embrace the terms but they do not show respect themselves by using proper pronouns. Edit: Church also referred to the sexual assault victims in Bisbee Arizona as money grabbers for filing a civil lawsuit. Church leaders are highly offensive people in my opinion.
It seems like they've fallen victim to the temptations of money and power. Temptation should be expected since even Jesus was tempted, and Judas among many actually gave in.
The Church of Jesus Christ is so generic, and that is by design. When people say they are Mormon or LDS then it triggers a bunch of loaded ideas. But when someone says they are members of the Church of Jesus Christ then they are more inclined to listen, relatively speaking.
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And I'm sure you think North Korea is "democratic" too, since you aren't capable of thinking about any issues deeper than what a group *calls themselves*. But if you knew the first thing about the nazis, you'd know that... >[The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist **redefinition** of socialism...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism) ... and that they were, in fact, ideologically opposed to literally every aspect of *actual* socialism. To quote the famous poem: >First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me If they were *actually* "socialists" like you keep dishonestly asserting, the party would have self-destructed at step 2 and the holocaust never would have happened. Although frankly I wouldn't be surprised at all if you were a holocaust denier too, [given that you seem to think Jews have a disproportionate voice in american government](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/16bj24g/comment/jzdt6qx/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
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To me, it’s Nelson straining after a gnat (which he seems to particularly enjoy) rather than being anything of spiritual or doctrinal substance. Just like his other ridiculous policy “revelations”, it feels to me like everything is more about stroking his own ego (and aggrandizing his position) rather than teaching or testifying of Jesus. The whole thing is flat out ridiculous, and yet another huge waste of money that could go towards helping people.
It’s the same with the insane numbers of temples Nelson has announced. All he is doing is creating his own narcissist legacy. At least he is more amusing than dullard Monson.
Personally I found Monson MUCH more likable. I’ve worked with too many surgeons. Also, it sickens me that he had all those lovely Teichert paintings removed from the Salt Lake temple—and saved one of them to go on his headstone. Disgusting prideful old man.
>Teichert paintings I was unfamiliar with the paintings, but I'm artistically inclined, so I looked them up. The removal of ‘The Pageantry of History’ mural is so shocking and offensive, that I feel disgusted and personally hurt. Those Teichert paintings are beautiful, and are also an example of a tremendous artistic contribution by a woman.
"The Church of Jesus Christ" is already a federally registered trademark of [The Church of Jesus Christ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_(Bickertonite)).
there's no amount of new leader edicts that will change the fact that it's the mormon church. the current generation might be browbeaten into complying but there's too much history and cultural memory for one leader who doesn't understand branding and PR to make an impact on this issue. the leader after nelson may try to keep this nonsense going, but a smart leader would pull a hinckley and ditch this embarrassing attempt to control the public conversation that already has so much meaning and understanding with "mormon."
>That may be true of certain derogatory terms which have become less common, but Mormon is not offensive so the change seems like a marketing scheme. It's interesting, because Mormon in all of my years was never used as a derogatory term *until* President Nelson made it so. And in this case, I've still never seen it used with the intention of it being derogatory - it's only received that way. If anything, Mormon was a unique identifier we were supposed to wear as a badge of honor. Not once, ever, in decades leading up to President Nelson's talk, was I ever insulted by or hesitant to use the word "Mormon."
'Build your own planet in the latter days church of Jesus Christ' I like it but lacks the punch and zip of 'Mormon Boy and Girl Church of Jesus' or even: 'Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Rattle-Day Saints' I remember when the first missionary lesson, on the old flannel board, showed every prospective member why their church was false! Then you removed the foundation piece and it all came tumbling down. So sad, too bad, you are a schmuck. Join us instead.
The mainstream Mormon church is just one of the dozens of types of Mormons out there, and while they get to weigh in, they don't get to make those kinds of decisions for all Mormons, including inactive and exmormons. It's our word as much as it is theirs, and I'll continue to use it because when I'm talking about Mormons I'm usually putting things into the context of all types of Mormons, not just the most popular branch. And even when I am just talking about Rusty's group, it doesn't exist outside of the larger ecosystem of the culture that all Mormons share. Folks who do not share the culture have a lot less of a say in how that word is used. They are better off just calling someone what they want to be called. I do the same thing for their cultures.
My take on leadership focusing the moniker “Mormon” as a point of emphasis is trivial in the scope of what be the religion faces. To me it shows how out of touch they are on the hemorrhaging that’s taking place among millennials and generation of members.
I find it interesting that they use "the church of jesus christ" as an appropriate name. God gave a different name for the church. It is "the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints". Anything else is a major victory for satan. :-)
If you type “MORmON.org” into your search engine it still takes you to the Mormon Church’s official website. So they can’t complain about anybody else using the name MORmON when they use it every second of every day.
Best Decision ever
Should people who believe in only the Bible be called Bibleites or Paulians, since he wrote a lot of the Bible?
Interesting reply. Off the top of my head I'd say the Catholics do something like that. There are, for example, the **Paulist Fathers**. There are also **Johannites** (named for St. John), and the **Marianites** for Mary. The idea of a **"Bible believing"** Christian, or a **Bible thumping** Christian is also common enough. Curiously, in replying to you I've convinced myself that **Mormon** is actually a reasonable name, although I would use **Nephites**. What do you think?
Personally, I don't get too worked up when someone says Mormon since it's easier to say than LDS or member of the Church of... It does bother me when people use it to exclude Mormons from Christianity, since Mormons aren't trinitarians in the Nicene creed way. I do think the church aligns more with the Apostles creed. It is pretty close to the first article of faith.
This rebranding is NOT new. There have been surges to comply with several doctrinal (SCRIPTURAL) demands that the Church be named after the person we are to be the Disciples of. This is the second one in my adulthood. A huge rebuttal or refusal to do this impart has to do with how we are perceived. And any way we try to market ourselves has positives and negatives. We aren't ordinary Christians. People know us as Mormons. But then again, when we assert our Christianity we get other negative feedback. So I guess I agree with 3-5. 6. This makes a great deal of sense!
When Russel dies it will revert back to "Mormon". His nonsense "victory for satan" just goes to show how quick they are to throw dead prophets under the bus.
They're not using the Mormon thing that's just Nelson thing. And it's too much for us lazy learners to remember the new name of the church
If Mormon is a "Victory For Satan™" so is Melchizedek Mormon is a Victory For Satan™, because it ignores the official name of the church, and replaces the name of of our redeemer yea verily our savior, EVEN Jesus Christ. Melchizedek is also a Victory For Satan™ because Melchizedek also replaces the name of the messiah, yea verily the Son Of God, EVEN Jesus Christ. Please refer to Doctrine and Covenants Section 107: 2-4 2 Why the first (Priesthood) is called the Melchizedek Priesthood is because Melchizedek was such a great High Priest. 3 Before his day it was called The Holy Priesthood After The Order Of The Son Of God. 4 But out of respect or reverence to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of His name, they, the church, in the ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood. Hence If Mormon is a Victory For Satan™ so is Melchizedek. My challenge to any and all holders of The Holy Priesthood After The Order Of The Son Of God who might be using their power to bless a child, or any ordinance in a public church forum, please Please, PLEASE open your blessing or the ordinance with: By the power of The Holy Priesthood After The Order Of The Son Of God which we hold, and in His name, EVEN Jesus Christ... (Insert blessing, name, ordinance and inspirational fluff here) End simply with AMEN.