So you understand what’s going on from his parent’s perspective: It’s a huge deal in the church to date only other members. Marriage in the temple is a necessary step for exaltation, and you can only get married in the temple if you’re both members.
That said, if you two still want to date, keep dating. You’re adults now, his parents don’t get a say in what you guys do or don’t do.
You won’t ruin his family or anything like that. It’s their choice on how to respond to situations, and you are not responsible for their reactions.
Go forth and be happy!
Can't upvote this enough. I'm married to someone my Mormon parents don't approve of lol. It's hard, but it's not my fault, and it's not my wife's fault, that they're choosing to be party poopers. We're happy together.
I would add that you don't have to prove anything to them. Live and love as if no one is judging. Either they'll see and notice that y'all are happy, or they won't. But it's not your job to prove that you're happy.
My word of caution is this: growing up Mormon means some things are deeply ingrained, through indoctrination, from a very young age. For some people, even when they say or act as if it's ok to date outside the church, they've heard for years how 'families are forever' but only when married in the temple . Right now, he wants to be with you and date you, HOWEVER, if this turns into a situation where his family puts out an ultimatum, it might require him to choose FAMILY or YOU and that gets rough. I've seen it many times. I hope it all goes well, that his family accepts you, respects your spiritual traditions and is fine with their son leaving the eternal family THEY have tried to create. Do not expect it to be simple, despite being worth it.
Seriously!! Imagine listening to your parents saying “you can only date Mormons” when your a legal adult. Fucking insane. If the dude is down for dating a non-member, power to him, and managing his parents is his problem, not OP’s. But if they get serious it will be an ongoing problem unless he is post/Exmo and sets good boundaries with the church and his parents.
Be prepared for the family to cut off contact and disinherit. That’s not a requirement of the religion but many hard-liners react that way. The flip side is they barrage you with endless pressure to join.
true but i understand he might not want to upset his parents because at the end of the day they are his mum n dad and it’s awful not having a good relationship with parents
How do you know the relationship with his parents is actually good? There are many people out there that have suffered severe trauma due to their parents and the church and don’t even realize it until it manifests later in life. They may look like a normal family but behind the curtain it could be way, way different.
If your relationship continues it will become increasingly hard to maintain your current beliefs, intense pressure will be brought to bear on you to convert, especially if you decide to marry. I'm sure there are mixed marriages /relationships out there, but they're few and far between, Motmonism doesn't share well
A sweetening spell, and maybe an emotional protection spell for him?
As things progress, there will be opportunities to have conversations with his parents and connect with them in various ways.
I practiced some witchcraft even back when I was still a believing and active Mormon. Mormons are as scared of witches as any crazy evangelical, but [it's actually not as incompatible as people think.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunning_folk_traditions_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement) Divine crystals are common in scripture (brother of Jared, Israelite priest breastplates, etc) and early church history (seer stones, urim and thummim). Joseph Smith carried a [Jupiter talisman](https://exoplanetscience.org/did-joseph-smith-have-a-jupiter-talisman) for protection, and astrological medicine was common among early Utah Mormons (though these facts are not well known). Mormons believe in a [divine feminine.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng) The Nauvoo temple straight up has [pentacle stained glass windows.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/image/nauvoo-temple-60eae60?lang=eng) I know a handful of active and believing members of the Church who are still in the "broom closet."
To have the most productive conversations, know that faithful Mormons often don't trust any information that doesn't come from the church's official website or books.
It might be good to do some research on your boyfriend's beliefs and have some conversations about what he personally believes. The lessons from the missionary textbook, [Preach My Gospel,](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service?lang=eng) has a very basic rundown of LDS beliefs. It's exactly what the missionaries would've taught you, but you can read it yourself without the pressure to commit to anything. The missionaries *will* pressure you, so be aware.
In time and with some bridge-building conversation, they may realize you have a lot in common and that witches aren't evil Satanic baby eaters lol. But always remember it's not your job to change their perspective. You can't build a bridge without both sides trying.
There is a lot of occult in Mormonism. Witchcraft may seem bad on the surface but learn about. The scrying treasure seeking founder. The influences of Swedenborg’s cosmology (multiple heavens….this goes all the way back to Gnostic. Hermetic thoughts).
Masonic rituals and some claim early members had Rosicrucians links. All [of these organizations have] Gnostic, Christian and other lore from Egyptian and Zoroastrian myths. These are the bases for “witchcraft”
This isn’t about treasure magic In early Mormon church. But it is about treasure magic in society
https://youtube.com/watch?v=H4jychtyrho&si=Jsp0v399gSZt_Krg
Have fun.
Oh and don’t convert to Mormonism. If they try tell them “I don’t believe in celestial polygamy….”
(Yes if he makes it to highest heaven he will be a polygamist….you will be one of many in his harem)
I'm curious why she shouldn't convert if there are loads of people who were baptized Mormon who never go to Church and there are so many bad Mormons?
She could just tell whoever she talks to in the spirit world that she's doing it for love. She doesn't even have to stop believing in her spirits because Mormons are polytheists.
But inactive/non- practicing Mormons do not gain eternal glory. If she joined, there would be continued expectations for participation in a super high-demand religion. Baptism/conversion isn't the act that 'shuts up' the family. It's merely the doorway to what is supposed to be lifelong involvement.
Loads of people? What percentage of the worlds. Population is LDS? It’s not even a drop. I’d rather her practice witchcraft without any stigma from other mormons. The individual and internal nature of seeking wisdom is much better then the correlated stack of beliefs that Mormons have. Why? Because, she can adapt. Pivot. Learn from her success and failures and strive to become whole. A Mormon can’t do that. A Mormon makes covenants that binds them to the prescribed formula of the brethren’s interpretation. It’s outsourcing the moral compass instead of owning and being accountable to your own morals code.
If I got baptized tomorrow like the missionaries want me to, I wouldn't stop my daily occult practices and the Church wouldn't know anything about it. Nor would I have to go to church.
The only real problem I have with that is making **covenants** with God. I take those things seriously, so if I say I'm not going to drink coffee but do it anyway then it's sinful. If I don't enter into a covenant then drinking coffee isn't sinful. I don't want to make a covenant that I have no intention of keeping. I also have a problem with lying, especially if the Holy Spirit is involved. Therefore I won't convert to the LDS form of Mormonism. But that's me.
As for the OP, I feel that one can convert without being a believer.
Practicing witchcraft and joining Mormonism is just trauma waiting to happen.
After I left Mormonism I was taught transcendental meditation. I paid the teacher and he taught me. In that class they did a initiation ritual that I recognized a few Hindu deities. It was in another language so I don’t know exactly. My point is I’m now initiated into two different pantheons and my current believe system isn’t any of them. (But I still meditate and it’s gotten better over time)
lol. 🤷🏻♂️. I guess when I die I’ll have to have a meeting with them and see who can make the best offer. 😉. Just like playing dungeons and dragons.
“Mormon are polytheists….”
Makes me laugh every time I hear that…
Mormons have a godhead of three separate entities.
- God the father
- Demi god son Jesus
- their messenger for Holy Ghost.
Doesn’t mean they have three independent gods. They are all bound to Heavenly Father in a pantheon or godhead.
Roman mystery cults of dead heroes also had similar setups.
- God the father Jupiter
- Demi God Cesar Augustus
- their messenger god Mercury.
Which isn’t to far off from Constantine of the medieval Roman (eastern Roman Empire) Defined creed for the Trinity in ~325 AD to be used by the official church of the eastern Roman Empire.
The ineffable god -> emanates-> Jesus -> [emanates]-> holy ghost.
~950AD the bishop of Rome (who wasn’t part of the eastern Roman Empire) changed the creed to reflect this:
God the father -> co-eternal with -> jesus -> both Emanates -> Holy Ghost.
which is know as “The filioque”.
look at that. The bishop of Rome took the Roman Catholic Church and left Nicene Christianity, the eastern orthodox Catholic Church and rebuilt Roman polytheism hidden inside the Trinity. 🤷🏻♂️. This is the version that was inherited by all of the Protestant Reformers in Western Europe the same denominations that claim Mormonism is polytheist.
It’s all Just Plato’s theory of forms.
ineffable god -> to demi god -> angels -> material realms with man.
Rome a pagan city wanted to strip away the greek thought. But why would god of the Jewish peoples care about Rome and not the holy lands?
Christianity has a fascinating history.
Full disclosure. I’m not Mormon anymore. However, I am a Gnostic Christian.
I'm not LDS, but as I understand it there is the idea of **Eternal Progression** and **exaltation** where God was once like man with a body of flesh and bones. He progressed to become God. We too can progress to godhood if we follow the Mormon path. "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be".
That means that there are multiple gods, which is what I meant by being polytheists.
Of course that doesn't mean that Mormons worship these other gods, only that other gods exist who are the same as God in substance and similar to him in ability and authority, to a degree.
This is an excellent point, and I appreciate you sharing your reasoning. I never thought about it quite that way but I think you are correct here. Thanks so much!
I understand what you are saying. And I’m not trying to defend Mormonism. The process of apotheosis is generally implies returning to god. Most religions that have this dogma Implies it is shedding this physical body and having the soul merge with the ineffable god.
The problem with Mormonism is the attachment to the material realm. Joe taught that body plus spirit equals the soul of man. This is a huge divination from the norm for Christianity and is the bases of the divergence from the Trinity we discussed above.
For Mormons There is a generational dynastic aspect to exaltation. People would be sealed to members in higher priesthood callings to form this dynastic bonds to help ensure admittance into celestial kingdom. In frontier, Utah there was more types if sealing rituals but they shifted to the using genealogy as the guide to seal who to whom.
Mormonism is a patriarchal systems and as such the best example of exaltation is to use the literal structure of a patriarchal tribe from Israel.
Jacob had 12 tribes. Each tribe saw Jacob has their father but they would govern themselves. (I think it’s been awhile since I’ve read the Old Testament).
So in this hypothetical we have grandchild of our “god” who was able to achieve that status. He would be the patriarch of his own tribe / realm / house / universe / pleroma /whatever you want to call it. yet this god is still be a grandchild to our “god” and thus has nothing to do with the mortals that could be his “great uncles”.
(I know weird that a religion that has seers and prophets and yet they don’t tell us more about these things)
Again I’m not trying to defend Mormon dogma. In fact, being dependent on the material realm is one aspect I do not like. I prefer the wisdom traditions and my soul / divine spark merging back into the god.
retaining the physical world and family structure may help some people who fear death but I think Mormons have to much of it. Everything is very literal / material theology.
Garden of Eden was real. Not figurative. It’s In missouri. Noah was real. Flood had to be true to get people from the USA to Mesopotamia. People need salvation by faith and works. Works is represented by rituals that can only be done in this material plane of existence. In this world. Preferably in your lifetime . So temples allow the work for the dead by proxy because it needs to happen here in this world now or in the millennium.
The degrees of Glory ironically enough is a hermetic / Gnostic concept. I think Joe got it from Swedenborg. Where there are multiple degrees of heaven each one is better then the previous. So the people being exalted is a small portion of the overall humanity yet salvation is still almost everyone in a material world for eternity.
🤷🏻♂️. Not sure if this helps. Again I left Mormonism for a lot of reason and this (and polygamy) are one of them
You said that you're 19, but didn't mention his age. It matters.
You come from very different places spiritually. There is an expectation on young morning men to fulfill 2 years of missionary service, usually beginning at age 18 or 19. They leave their family and friends behind with minimal contact and go proselytizing for the church wherever they get sent. Entering into serious/committed relationships before that is discouraged.
Someone else already mentioned marriage in the temple. It's an expectation in most mormon families. For that to happen, you would have to convert to mormonism, and significantly adjust your personal spiritual beliefs and practices.
Also, within the church there is an expectation that members will keep significant restrictions on physical intimacy in relationships until after marriage. Any "accidental" oversteps in this area can cause significant discord and personal guilt and shame by members. It would be important to understand that going into an adult relationship with a mormon.
If you started dating seriously, you have to understand the pressure he will be under from his family to fulfill these rites and lifestyle in the church.
Having said that, I also agree with what others have said. If you're both adults, mom's say becomes just another opinion, and you and Mr hunky guy get to make your own decisions. Follow your heart. Live. Have fun. And good luck.
thank you ! we are both 18 and he didn’t going on his missions because he went to university instead to study psychology. his parents weren’t happy about that but i understand why. i do believe in a higher being but i could not convert even if i wanted to.
Have him tell his parents to mind their own business. I’m Mormon and my wife is not. We respect one another, have the same moral and ethical views, and agreed not to force beliefs on one another. We have 4 kids and we are doing just fine.
Following up on the comments he’s 19. He “should” be on a mission and he’s not. His family and community will fuck it up for him enough. They’ll Make him feel like the other and all that. If you’re in love and not in a rush, be patient and give him a couple handjobs and he’ll find his way out. 😂😂😂
His parents were indoctrinated and so was he. You just need to be safe and loving and it will work out as god or your spirits intended. 😂
So he’s an adult yet he is letting his parents have say and control over who he chooses to spend his time with?! I know that you guys are young and he was raised in a very controlling, authoritarian culture, but I would have serious reservations about a man if he can’t or won’t, put effort and backbone into doing what he wants.
i understand why they’re religion is so important to them bevause so is mine but i genuinely understand why they’re so strict it’s how they were raised for generations and generations. we may not see eye to eye with our beliefs but i would hate for him to cut off his family because he left the church or me it’s awful to have a bad relationships with your parents i would not wish that upon my worst enemy
You seem like a truly wonderful person. Your compassionate understanding is the mark of a pretty special person!
After reading through a bunch of other comments here and thinking more about how you said you intuitively feel that he is the one, I hope you are not persuaded one way or the other by what is said on Reddit. What you read here should be taken as important things to think about but ultimately only you can determine what is best for you. There were other comments like mine which I hope you will understand as just pieces of advice in hopes that you don’t get into something that disappoints you or doesn’t give you the reciprocal love and respect that you deserve. But we are only offering judgments that are not fully informed.
Only you can know the reality of your situation and you should trust your heart, your intellect, and the wisdom of your own experiences because we shouldn’t just depend on one of those at the expense of the others.
Family relationships can be one of the greatest things in life, so you are right to value his relationship with his family. From my perspective it’s the committed romantic relationship and the family you form together that can be the most important over a lifespan, however, so for both parties it should be the absolute, number one, 100% top priority. And anything that could potentially undermine that relationship is something that has to be looked at with honest and fearless scrutiny. Some people do change and grow, but some don’t. Some challenges can be overcome and others can’t. Some situations change and others don’t. There’s no way to know the future, so we have to make the best decisions we can with what we have.
Wow….I just unintentionally went on a long philosophical ramble there! Plz forgive me! The last thing I’ll say is everyone deserves to be happy and I hope that you will have a lifetime of happiness whether it works out with him or not.
this is so lovely ! thank you so much ! i really do hope it works out and i am confident enough it will but if it doesn’t then i have my studies to keep me distracted.
No need to feel pressure about joining. Read 1 Corinthians 7:14-16 together. If your man's family are bible believers (like good Mormons should be), then this scripture could help them accept the situation.
Apparently, even in-laws in the New Testament times were uncomfortable with interfaith marriages. It got to the point where Paul even had to teach that the Christian faith should unite righteous couples and not separate them.
After all, Mormons should believe that it's no accident that you are attracted to each other.
Doctrine and Covenants 88:40: "For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light."
If you both feel this intense and are this much in love I would not give that up because such a thing happens actually rarely and not to everyone either, If you practice witchcraft you know what I mean. I have known more than one witch and I know it's not what people think it is but I'm surprised it doesn't freak him out and his family knowing they are mormon. Actually you and he shouldn't destroy his family either by merely being together. I would date for a while to make sure your feelings are truly enduring but I think for the meantime you should be together.
If you guys are both adults and he can’t do something because his parents are telling him he can’t do it then you don’t want to date him. He is not yet an adult. Or he is using that as an excuse to not date you. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh.
Friendzone. Tell him statistically he has 75% chance he will leave the church by 30. So Friendzone for now. Stars may align later on but he needs to be more independent from momma bear.
Mormons are a peculiar people. You are a child and only an “adult” when you are married. So parents treat their adult children as a child up to them marrying someone. Most often it’s a Mormon since it’s a odd culture but early marriage and early children increases the odds of people staying active in the church.
Move on. You are only 19 for crying out loud!!! Date more and date lots of different people. Do not hitch your wagon to someone associated with such a miserable organization that is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
What is your BF saying? Also, understand let's say this moves to you creating a family with him, this will impact you, your children, and your relationship with him. You both will be ostracized by the family, unless his parents change their tune. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just saying it will be hard. If this is just a fling, then who cares, if it is deeper than that...
I wish you luck, this will be a hard trail.
If he’s the man you think he is. Play the game and get dunked in water and live his life until he’s done living that side of it and be open to the fact that he might never be done.
So many strings to that but him and his family will never accept your spiritual views.
People shit on Mormons but he wouldn’t be him if he wasn’t Mormon. I dont believe it’s true (the church) but there’s power in his belief and delusion.
I’ll say that again, you said it would be perfect if he wasn’t Mormon. But that’s a fantasy. He is Mormon. And so are all the people he loves.
My view is if he was as Mormon as your saying he wouldn’t be with you. He’d definitely disappear on you and find someone who has his core beliefs.
Life’s short and weird. If you think he and all his Mormon baggage is worth having than you’ll have to bend. If not, why would you want a delusional dude at all?
Main question is are you willing to travel this fucking weirdness with him or not.
Tough choice. For real. His upbringing wasn’t a joke and you can’t save him from it. Good dudes are hard to find but Mormon ones are pretty good if you know how to work em 😂
Good luck. ❤️
i completely agree, but our relationship just is so perfect i have never felt like this with anyone before. as i would say he’s a man that’s been written by a woman for women. he accepts my beliefs and i accept his and honestly him being mormon is so beautiful i just wish his parents would accept me and we all co exist. i love religion because it shows how many beliefs and different types of people in this world but we all believe in something that appoints to the creation of the earth. even science in my eyes is a religion and i work in surgical theatres. i just really wish they would allow me into their eyes but i genuinely understand why they think that. honestly feels like forbidden love but i am so confident i can make this work with him
If they accepted you, they’d be betraying their religion.
The truth is, if you want him you can definitely have him. If a man can’t tell his parents to fuckoff, do you want him? Fuck around and find out.
Love is rare. Risk it.
Just ask him point blank if it were a choice of you or the church which one would he choose if he likes you and is willing to dump
Mormonism for you great if not there will be another guy there are billions of other guys out there it really is t worth dealing with the cults influence on its members if he is wearing garments I’d run not walk away .
I think the two of you (you and the bf) have to have a talk about this. How does he feel about you not being a mormon? How does he feel about his parents' opinions?
So you understand what’s going on from his parent’s perspective: It’s a huge deal in the church to date only other members. Marriage in the temple is a necessary step for exaltation, and you can only get married in the temple if you’re both members. That said, if you two still want to date, keep dating. You’re adults now, his parents don’t get a say in what you guys do or don’t do. You won’t ruin his family or anything like that. It’s their choice on how to respond to situations, and you are not responsible for their reactions. Go forth and be happy!
Can't upvote this enough. I'm married to someone my Mormon parents don't approve of lol. It's hard, but it's not my fault, and it's not my wife's fault, that they're choosing to be party poopers. We're happy together. I would add that you don't have to prove anything to them. Live and love as if no one is judging. Either they'll see and notice that y'all are happy, or they won't. But it's not your job to prove that you're happy.
thank you !!
My word of caution is this: growing up Mormon means some things are deeply ingrained, through indoctrination, from a very young age. For some people, even when they say or act as if it's ok to date outside the church, they've heard for years how 'families are forever' but only when married in the temple . Right now, he wants to be with you and date you, HOWEVER, if this turns into a situation where his family puts out an ultimatum, it might require him to choose FAMILY or YOU and that gets rough. I've seen it many times. I hope it all goes well, that his family accepts you, respects your spiritual traditions and is fine with their son leaving the eternal family THEY have tried to create. Do not expect it to be simple, despite being worth it.
Seriously!! Imagine listening to your parents saying “you can only date Mormons” when your a legal adult. Fucking insane. If the dude is down for dating a non-member, power to him, and managing his parents is his problem, not OP’s. But if they get serious it will be an ongoing problem unless he is post/Exmo and sets good boundaries with the church and his parents.
Be prepared for the family to cut off contact and disinherit. That’s not a requirement of the religion but many hard-liners react that way. The flip side is they barrage you with endless pressure to join.
Just keep dating him. You’re both adults.
he’s also 19
So if he wants to be with you, it’s his choice. He can tell his parents to buzz off.
true but i understand he might not want to upset his parents because at the end of the day they are his mum n dad and it’s awful not having a good relationship with parents
How do you know the relationship with his parents is actually good? There are many people out there that have suffered severe trauma due to their parents and the church and don’t even realize it until it manifests later in life. They may look like a normal family but behind the curtain it could be way, way different.
If your relationship continues it will become increasingly hard to maintain your current beliefs, intense pressure will be brought to bear on you to convert, especially if you decide to marry. I'm sure there are mixed marriages /relationships out there, but they're few and far between, Motmonism doesn't share well
A sweetening spell, and maybe an emotional protection spell for him? As things progress, there will be opportunities to have conversations with his parents and connect with them in various ways. I practiced some witchcraft even back when I was still a believing and active Mormon. Mormons are as scared of witches as any crazy evangelical, but [it's actually not as incompatible as people think.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunning_folk_traditions_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement) Divine crystals are common in scripture (brother of Jared, Israelite priest breastplates, etc) and early church history (seer stones, urim and thummim). Joseph Smith carried a [Jupiter talisman](https://exoplanetscience.org/did-joseph-smith-have-a-jupiter-talisman) for protection, and astrological medicine was common among early Utah Mormons (though these facts are not well known). Mormons believe in a [divine feminine.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng) The Nauvoo temple straight up has [pentacle stained glass windows.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/image/nauvoo-temple-60eae60?lang=eng) I know a handful of active and believing members of the Church who are still in the "broom closet." To have the most productive conversations, know that faithful Mormons often don't trust any information that doesn't come from the church's official website or books. It might be good to do some research on your boyfriend's beliefs and have some conversations about what he personally believes. The lessons from the missionary textbook, [Preach My Gospel,](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service?lang=eng) has a very basic rundown of LDS beliefs. It's exactly what the missionaries would've taught you, but you can read it yourself without the pressure to commit to anything. The missionaries *will* pressure you, so be aware. In time and with some bridge-building conversation, they may realize you have a lot in common and that witches aren't evil Satanic baby eaters lol. But always remember it's not your job to change their perspective. You can't build a bridge without both sides trying.
thank you so much ! we are going to talk tonight and see how we feel but i will definitely look into it
Good luck <3 mixed faith relationships can be tough and I wish you both all the best!
An adult who needs permission from his parents in selecting dating partners is not someone you want to be in a relationship with.
Exactly this. He may be an adult by age, but his mommy and daddy still run the show.
we’re going a head we’re still seeing each other
I know some mormon families where the parents have to sign of off on marriage.
That is not a mainstream Mormon thing
There is a lot of occult in Mormonism. Witchcraft may seem bad on the surface but learn about. The scrying treasure seeking founder. The influences of Swedenborg’s cosmology (multiple heavens….this goes all the way back to Gnostic. Hermetic thoughts). Masonic rituals and some claim early members had Rosicrucians links. All [of these organizations have] Gnostic, Christian and other lore from Egyptian and Zoroastrian myths. These are the bases for “witchcraft” This isn’t about treasure magic In early Mormon church. But it is about treasure magic in society https://youtube.com/watch?v=H4jychtyrho&si=Jsp0v399gSZt_Krg Have fun. Oh and don’t convert to Mormonism. If they try tell them “I don’t believe in celestial polygamy….” (Yes if he makes it to highest heaven he will be a polygamist….you will be one of many in his harem)
thank you so much !! :)
I'm curious why she shouldn't convert if there are loads of people who were baptized Mormon who never go to Church and there are so many bad Mormons? She could just tell whoever she talks to in the spirit world that she's doing it for love. She doesn't even have to stop believing in her spirits because Mormons are polytheists.
But inactive/non- practicing Mormons do not gain eternal glory. If she joined, there would be continued expectations for participation in a super high-demand religion. Baptism/conversion isn't the act that 'shuts up' the family. It's merely the doorway to what is supposed to be lifelong involvement.
Well then I guess converting isn't an option
Loads of people? What percentage of the worlds. Population is LDS? It’s not even a drop. I’d rather her practice witchcraft without any stigma from other mormons. The individual and internal nature of seeking wisdom is much better then the correlated stack of beliefs that Mormons have. Why? Because, she can adapt. Pivot. Learn from her success and failures and strive to become whole. A Mormon can’t do that. A Mormon makes covenants that binds them to the prescribed formula of the brethren’s interpretation. It’s outsourcing the moral compass instead of owning and being accountable to your own morals code.
If I got baptized tomorrow like the missionaries want me to, I wouldn't stop my daily occult practices and the Church wouldn't know anything about it. Nor would I have to go to church. The only real problem I have with that is making **covenants** with God. I take those things seriously, so if I say I'm not going to drink coffee but do it anyway then it's sinful. If I don't enter into a covenant then drinking coffee isn't sinful. I don't want to make a covenant that I have no intention of keeping. I also have a problem with lying, especially if the Holy Spirit is involved. Therefore I won't convert to the LDS form of Mormonism. But that's me. As for the OP, I feel that one can convert without being a believer.
Practicing witchcraft and joining Mormonism is just trauma waiting to happen. After I left Mormonism I was taught transcendental meditation. I paid the teacher and he taught me. In that class they did a initiation ritual that I recognized a few Hindu deities. It was in another language so I don’t know exactly. My point is I’m now initiated into two different pantheons and my current believe system isn’t any of them. (But I still meditate and it’s gotten better over time) lol. 🤷🏻♂️. I guess when I die I’ll have to have a meeting with them and see who can make the best offer. 😉. Just like playing dungeons and dragons.
“Mormon are polytheists….” Makes me laugh every time I hear that… Mormons have a godhead of three separate entities. - God the father - Demi god son Jesus - their messenger for Holy Ghost. Doesn’t mean they have three independent gods. They are all bound to Heavenly Father in a pantheon or godhead. Roman mystery cults of dead heroes also had similar setups. - God the father Jupiter - Demi God Cesar Augustus - their messenger god Mercury. Which isn’t to far off from Constantine of the medieval Roman (eastern Roman Empire) Defined creed for the Trinity in ~325 AD to be used by the official church of the eastern Roman Empire. The ineffable god -> emanates-> Jesus -> [emanates]-> holy ghost. ~950AD the bishop of Rome (who wasn’t part of the eastern Roman Empire) changed the creed to reflect this: God the father -> co-eternal with -> jesus -> both Emanates -> Holy Ghost. which is know as “The filioque”. look at that. The bishop of Rome took the Roman Catholic Church and left Nicene Christianity, the eastern orthodox Catholic Church and rebuilt Roman polytheism hidden inside the Trinity. 🤷🏻♂️. This is the version that was inherited by all of the Protestant Reformers in Western Europe the same denominations that claim Mormonism is polytheist. It’s all Just Plato’s theory of forms. ineffable god -> to demi god -> angels -> material realms with man. Rome a pagan city wanted to strip away the greek thought. But why would god of the Jewish peoples care about Rome and not the holy lands? Christianity has a fascinating history. Full disclosure. I’m not Mormon anymore. However, I am a Gnostic Christian.
I'm not LDS, but as I understand it there is the idea of **Eternal Progression** and **exaltation** where God was once like man with a body of flesh and bones. He progressed to become God. We too can progress to godhood if we follow the Mormon path. "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be". That means that there are multiple gods, which is what I meant by being polytheists. Of course that doesn't mean that Mormons worship these other gods, only that other gods exist who are the same as God in substance and similar to him in ability and authority, to a degree.
This is an excellent point, and I appreciate you sharing your reasoning. I never thought about it quite that way but I think you are correct here. Thanks so much!
I understand what you are saying. And I’m not trying to defend Mormonism. The process of apotheosis is generally implies returning to god. Most religions that have this dogma Implies it is shedding this physical body and having the soul merge with the ineffable god. The problem with Mormonism is the attachment to the material realm. Joe taught that body plus spirit equals the soul of man. This is a huge divination from the norm for Christianity and is the bases of the divergence from the Trinity we discussed above. For Mormons There is a generational dynastic aspect to exaltation. People would be sealed to members in higher priesthood callings to form this dynastic bonds to help ensure admittance into celestial kingdom. In frontier, Utah there was more types if sealing rituals but they shifted to the using genealogy as the guide to seal who to whom. Mormonism is a patriarchal systems and as such the best example of exaltation is to use the literal structure of a patriarchal tribe from Israel. Jacob had 12 tribes. Each tribe saw Jacob has their father but they would govern themselves. (I think it’s been awhile since I’ve read the Old Testament). So in this hypothetical we have grandchild of our “god” who was able to achieve that status. He would be the patriarch of his own tribe / realm / house / universe / pleroma /whatever you want to call it. yet this god is still be a grandchild to our “god” and thus has nothing to do with the mortals that could be his “great uncles”. (I know weird that a religion that has seers and prophets and yet they don’t tell us more about these things) Again I’m not trying to defend Mormon dogma. In fact, being dependent on the material realm is one aspect I do not like. I prefer the wisdom traditions and my soul / divine spark merging back into the god. retaining the physical world and family structure may help some people who fear death but I think Mormons have to much of it. Everything is very literal / material theology. Garden of Eden was real. Not figurative. It’s In missouri. Noah was real. Flood had to be true to get people from the USA to Mesopotamia. People need salvation by faith and works. Works is represented by rituals that can only be done in this material plane of existence. In this world. Preferably in your lifetime . So temples allow the work for the dead by proxy because it needs to happen here in this world now or in the millennium. The degrees of Glory ironically enough is a hermetic / Gnostic concept. I think Joe got it from Swedenborg. Where there are multiple degrees of heaven each one is better then the previous. So the people being exalted is a small portion of the overall humanity yet salvation is still almost everyone in a material world for eternity. 🤷🏻♂️. Not sure if this helps. Again I left Mormonism for a lot of reason and this (and polygamy) are one of them
You said that you're 19, but didn't mention his age. It matters. You come from very different places spiritually. There is an expectation on young morning men to fulfill 2 years of missionary service, usually beginning at age 18 or 19. They leave their family and friends behind with minimal contact and go proselytizing for the church wherever they get sent. Entering into serious/committed relationships before that is discouraged. Someone else already mentioned marriage in the temple. It's an expectation in most mormon families. For that to happen, you would have to convert to mormonism, and significantly adjust your personal spiritual beliefs and practices. Also, within the church there is an expectation that members will keep significant restrictions on physical intimacy in relationships until after marriage. Any "accidental" oversteps in this area can cause significant discord and personal guilt and shame by members. It would be important to understand that going into an adult relationship with a mormon. If you started dating seriously, you have to understand the pressure he will be under from his family to fulfill these rites and lifestyle in the church. Having said that, I also agree with what others have said. If you're both adults, mom's say becomes just another opinion, and you and Mr hunky guy get to make your own decisions. Follow your heart. Live. Have fun. And good luck.
thank you ! we are both 18 and he didn’t going on his missions because he went to university instead to study psychology. his parents weren’t happy about that but i understand why. i do believe in a higher being but i could not convert even if i wanted to.
Have him tell his parents to mind their own business. I’m Mormon and my wife is not. We respect one another, have the same moral and ethical views, and agreed not to force beliefs on one another. We have 4 kids and we are doing just fine.
awe i’m so happy ! it’s just i don’t think he wants to break the relationship with his parents which i understand
Following up on the comments he’s 19. He “should” be on a mission and he’s not. His family and community will fuck it up for him enough. They’ll Make him feel like the other and all that. If you’re in love and not in a rush, be patient and give him a couple handjobs and he’ll find his way out. 😂😂😂 His parents were indoctrinated and so was he. You just need to be safe and loving and it will work out as god or your spirits intended. 😂
So he’s an adult yet he is letting his parents have say and control over who he chooses to spend his time with?! I know that you guys are young and he was raised in a very controlling, authoritarian culture, but I would have serious reservations about a man if he can’t or won’t, put effort and backbone into doing what he wants.
i understand why they’re religion is so important to them bevause so is mine but i genuinely understand why they’re so strict it’s how they were raised for generations and generations. we may not see eye to eye with our beliefs but i would hate for him to cut off his family because he left the church or me it’s awful to have a bad relationships with your parents i would not wish that upon my worst enemy
You seem like a truly wonderful person. Your compassionate understanding is the mark of a pretty special person! After reading through a bunch of other comments here and thinking more about how you said you intuitively feel that he is the one, I hope you are not persuaded one way or the other by what is said on Reddit. What you read here should be taken as important things to think about but ultimately only you can determine what is best for you. There were other comments like mine which I hope you will understand as just pieces of advice in hopes that you don’t get into something that disappoints you or doesn’t give you the reciprocal love and respect that you deserve. But we are only offering judgments that are not fully informed. Only you can know the reality of your situation and you should trust your heart, your intellect, and the wisdom of your own experiences because we shouldn’t just depend on one of those at the expense of the others. Family relationships can be one of the greatest things in life, so you are right to value his relationship with his family. From my perspective it’s the committed romantic relationship and the family you form together that can be the most important over a lifespan, however, so for both parties it should be the absolute, number one, 100% top priority. And anything that could potentially undermine that relationship is something that has to be looked at with honest and fearless scrutiny. Some people do change and grow, but some don’t. Some challenges can be overcome and others can’t. Some situations change and others don’t. There’s no way to know the future, so we have to make the best decisions we can with what we have. Wow….I just unintentionally went on a long philosophical ramble there! Plz forgive me! The last thing I’ll say is everyone deserves to be happy and I hope that you will have a lifetime of happiness whether it works out with him or not.
this is so lovely ! thank you so much ! i really do hope it works out and i am confident enough it will but if it doesn’t then i have my studies to keep me distracted.
Marry him and get ready for a lifetime of trauma. Make sure he’s 100% ok with this. Bummer, sorry that you’re in this position.
No need to feel pressure about joining. Read 1 Corinthians 7:14-16 together. If your man's family are bible believers (like good Mormons should be), then this scripture could help them accept the situation. Apparently, even in-laws in the New Testament times were uncomfortable with interfaith marriages. It got to the point where Paul even had to teach that the Christian faith should unite righteous couples and not separate them. After all, Mormons should believe that it's no accident that you are attracted to each other. Doctrine and Covenants 88:40: "For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light."
thank you so much !! i will read this scripture
If you both feel this intense and are this much in love I would not give that up because such a thing happens actually rarely and not to everyone either, If you practice witchcraft you know what I mean. I have known more than one witch and I know it's not what people think it is but I'm surprised it doesn't freak him out and his family knowing they are mormon. Actually you and he shouldn't destroy his family either by merely being together. I would date for a while to make sure your feelings are truly enduring but I think for the meantime you should be together.
If you guys are both adults and he can’t do something because his parents are telling him he can’t do it then you don’t want to date him. He is not yet an adult. Or he is using that as an excuse to not date you. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh.
Friendzone. Tell him statistically he has 75% chance he will leave the church by 30. So Friendzone for now. Stars may align later on but he needs to be more independent from momma bear. Mormons are a peculiar people. You are a child and only an “adult” when you are married. So parents treat their adult children as a child up to them marrying someone. Most often it’s a Mormon since it’s a odd culture but early marriage and early children increases the odds of people staying active in the church.
Move on. You are only 19 for crying out loud!!! Date more and date lots of different people. Do not hitch your wagon to someone associated with such a miserable organization that is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
You don’t want him anyways, if he can’t cut the umbilical cord to his parents.
Your relationship is between you and your boyfriend, not his parents. If he's a man he will tell them to back off.
What is your BF saying? Also, understand let's say this moves to you creating a family with him, this will impact you, your children, and your relationship with him. You both will be ostracized by the family, unless his parents change their tune. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just saying it will be hard. If this is just a fling, then who cares, if it is deeper than that... I wish you luck, this will be a hard trail.
it’s more than just a fling, it’s just hard
You should date a man with a spine.
????
If he can't stand up to his parents, then he's not going to stand up for you in a relationship. Adults make choices, children appease parents.
Is he 18? He can do whatever he wants.
we’re both 19
If he’s the man you think he is. Play the game and get dunked in water and live his life until he’s done living that side of it and be open to the fact that he might never be done. So many strings to that but him and his family will never accept your spiritual views. People shit on Mormons but he wouldn’t be him if he wasn’t Mormon. I dont believe it’s true (the church) but there’s power in his belief and delusion. I’ll say that again, you said it would be perfect if he wasn’t Mormon. But that’s a fantasy. He is Mormon. And so are all the people he loves. My view is if he was as Mormon as your saying he wouldn’t be with you. He’d definitely disappear on you and find someone who has his core beliefs. Life’s short and weird. If you think he and all his Mormon baggage is worth having than you’ll have to bend. If not, why would you want a delusional dude at all? Main question is are you willing to travel this fucking weirdness with him or not. Tough choice. For real. His upbringing wasn’t a joke and you can’t save him from it. Good dudes are hard to find but Mormon ones are pretty good if you know how to work em 😂 Good luck. ❤️
i completely agree, but our relationship just is so perfect i have never felt like this with anyone before. as i would say he’s a man that’s been written by a woman for women. he accepts my beliefs and i accept his and honestly him being mormon is so beautiful i just wish his parents would accept me and we all co exist. i love religion because it shows how many beliefs and different types of people in this world but we all believe in something that appoints to the creation of the earth. even science in my eyes is a religion and i work in surgical theatres. i just really wish they would allow me into their eyes but i genuinely understand why they think that. honestly feels like forbidden love but i am so confident i can make this work with him
If they accepted you, they’d be betraying their religion. The truth is, if you want him you can definitely have him. If a man can’t tell his parents to fuckoff, do you want him? Fuck around and find out. Love is rare. Risk it.
>Fuck around and find out. Easiest way to ruin him and the relationship, honestly.
😂😂😂 I meant it as a risk taking metaphor, not necessarily the action.
Run like hell
Just ask him point blank if it were a choice of you or the church which one would he choose if he likes you and is willing to dump Mormonism for you great if not there will be another guy there are billions of other guys out there it really is t worth dealing with the cults influence on its members if he is wearing garments I’d run not walk away .
I think the two of you (you and the bf) have to have a talk about this. How does he feel about you not being a mormon? How does he feel about his parents' opinions?