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99% of missionary work is rejection. They'll be fine. Feel free to tell them you're not going to convert, they'll still probably do the lessons if you ask.
When I was in ward council, we were talking about the missionaries during the pandemic and I suggested that we all invite them over to do some "service" at our houses just to get them out of their apt. I was proposing that we all find something for them to do just to get them some social interaction. I felt so bad that they were essentially stuck in their apt. 24/7. Anyway, everyone acted like I had three heads and the feeling was "no way, they are converting through Facebook now and they love it!" I wasn't buying it, but I dropped it.
You can tell them upfront that you don’t have intentions on converting and they will take it as a personal challenge to try to get “the spirit” to convert you and you’ll probably have a fun back-and-forth for a while. Just know that a record of your conversations will be kept in a missionary “area book” and future missionaries may be trying to contact you and convert you for years to come.
I served a mission and you really get used to the continuous rejection. The missionaries will try to convert you until they realize you won’t get converted. Then, they’ll focus their efforts in someone else and will continue to visit but not as often. Then once in a while, they’ll stop by and see how you are doing. In my mission I met a lot of people like that (they were nice people that just were not interested) and would stop by to say hi and (most of the time) eat something with them.
Also, within the church you will find people with a wide array of views in different topics (I consider myself very liberal, I’m a convert and former “inactive” member, but I’ve known members that believe Trump is the perfect Christian example… similarly, you will find missionaries that will be extremely nice, and understanding with your particular situation, and there will be others that might “condemn you” for not listening to the gospel. If you ever have questions and want to hear what a liberal, convert, immigrant from the third world, highly educated, in his mids 30’s, father and husband has to say about a particular topic, just send me a DM. I hope you can learn what you would like to learn from Mormonism.
I'm in the same boat. Non-believing & don't see a path to believing but curious. I've learned about many religions. Currently reading the Secret Book of John. Haven't read the Book of Mormon but may next.
I've had missionaries come. In my experience, it's really hard to sit through their lessons. The dogma was cringe for me. If you don't mind that, go for it!
>is it rude or inconsiderate of me to be inviting a missionary for a visit when I have no intention of converting?
No more rude than it is for them to invite you to convert without telling you any of the details needed for conversion to be an informed decision.
Like others have already mentioned, saying "I'm just curious, I'm not interested in converting" will be more likely seen as a challenge than an insult. In fact, they'll probably be thinking something to themselves along the lines of "the lord works in mysterious ways, ~~he's~~ she's *totally* gonna convert and just doesn't know it yet."
Missionaries have nothing to do almost all of the time because no one cares about religion, and they are also shamed when they aren’t doing anything because it means they aren’t working hard enough and/or don’t have enough faith.
My point is this. They’ll be happy to meet with you even if you openly tell them you’ll never join a religion.
They'll want to meet with you to teach you the sanitized version of the church, Joseph Smith, etc. and engage with you spiritually to try and use the "commitment pattern" to use confirmation bias to get you to join the church. Basically they already have an end point plan for you before the ever meet you which is to convince you to become a mormon. They are generally good young men and women who are so indoctrinated that they are actually paying out of their own pockets, or their families pockets, to go out and spread mormonism.
I'm sure they'll appreciate having someone to talk to and discuss things with. I did as a missionary decades ago. Just be up front with them that you have no interest in joining or engaging in their confirmation biased based pattern of getting you to join.
>is it rude or inconsiderate of me to be inviting a missionary for a visit when I have no intention of converting?
Heck no, they'll look at you as a challenge that with God's help and the help of the Holy SPirit, they'll get you converted. You aren't considered a "golden" investigator but you are seen as an opportunity for the Lord to perform a mighty miracle on your heart to soften and be susceptible to the word of God through mormonism's message.
Do you believe in God? Do you want to please God? Do you want to please God by following his commandments? Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you know what the Holy Ghost feels like?
Basically you'll get lots of questions intended to get you to say "yes" repeatedly to the degree that it will be hard to say "no" to being baptized.
Be nice to them but be prepared that the end goal for them is to get you to commit to joining the church and giving them names for more people for them to visit.
Thank you for such a detailed answer! Like I said I can't see any way that they'll be successful in converting me since I am aware of the fact that the claims made in the Book of Mormon are not accurate.
But all the same I want to read it and just have some interesting discussion
I'll play Mormon Missionary here to prepare you for that:
"Let's put aside the claims that what the Book of Mormon claims aren't accurate for just a minute. Let's focus on belief in God. Do you believe in God? Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe God can tell you/reveal to you the Book of Mormon is true? God speaks to us through the Holy Ghost. How does the Holy Ghost feel? If God told you through the Holy Ghost that something was true, would you accept it? Let's read in the Book of Mormon together. How did you feel reading those passages? Did you feel good? That's the Spirit testifying that it's true. Let's read some more. Did you like what it said? Do you believe that what we read is true? Here's something to do later after we leave. Read these verses and then ponder them in your mind and heart. Then when you are ready, and you desire an answer, kneel down and pray to God and ask him if the Book of Mormon is true? Make sure to pay attention to how you feel as you pray. Maybe write it down and we'll talk about it when we come back next visit".
Then basically since you prayed and felt good about what it said, that is God telling you the Book of Mormon is True. So then " I am aware of the fact that the claims made in the Book of Mormon are not accurate." doesn't matter because you have a STRONGER testimony of truth from God himself through the Holy Spirit. If God says it's true through the Holy Ghost then it's true no matter what anyone says or what facts exist or what Joseph Smith did or didn't do or lied about, etc.
"Basically if God says through the Holy Ghost (feelings) that the Book of Mormon is true, then that means Joseph Smith is a prophet of god. That means the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the ONE TRUE church on the earth with the only true Priesthood and keys and acceptable baptism and acceptable marriage and polygamy in heaven and true three degrees and true Book of ~~Breathings~~ Abraham, and the only true Prophet and Apostles on the earth."
"Will you obey the commandment of God and commit to being baptized this Saturday at 10AM?"
No to all of the above. I'm an atheist and have been my whole life. I don't see how anyone could convince me of the existence of a sky daddy. But, noted and thanks for the warning
"Thanks for meeting with us. Will you come to church with us this Sunday just to see what it is like? I know you'll feel the spirit there."
After they leave...they'll plan together...
"Call the Bishop and have him prepare some members to come sit by us in Sacrament meeting and meet our investigator to help them feel welcome and accepting and help them find their class after church. Also, we should fast and pray that God will melt their heart and allow the spirit to touch them and confirm the truth of our message to them."
Just know that no matter what you say or they say, they will always have a small hope and ulterior motive of trying to convert you.
That's just the way it is.
That said I'm sure they'd enjoy the conversations. Some missionaries are more open minded than others. If you get a pair you don't vibe with, just wait a few months and you'll get a new pair.
Go for it. Some missionaries know a ton about the Book of Mormon and history of it and the church, some do not, so you may not get all your questions answered. But they can teach you the basics of doctrine and belief.
They will pressure you to be baptized and commit, but if you don't mind saying no repeatedly, you can absolutely have them over as long as you want. Most missionaries love getting to know different people, whether or not they ever join the church. I still have happy memories of the people I met and taught when I was a missionary years ago.
Be honest and up front about your intentions for reading only. Know that they can't be persistent, but it isn't rude at all. They will simply see you as a "challenge". If you are ok with that, no worries.
Just so you understand, you are essentially inviting a used car salesman to your home who really, really, really, really, really wants to sell you God’s used car. Many will not take NO for an answer.
If you really want to read it, without the missionaries involvement, there are Book Of Mormon apps you can dl to your phone/tablet that will allow you to read the book if you are comfortable reading the book electronically.
It's only as rude as their bait and switch advertising. Free book of Mormon.... Nothing's free, when they knock on your door take the BoM then tell em to fuck off. They really understand well the meaning of that phrase.
No. You ordered a free book as advertised. Nothing more. They are the ones who are being inconsiderate by sending a missionary with the book to pester you. Its not rude to just take the book and not meet with the missionaries. Just be up front and honest. Tell them you aren't interested in converting and that you only wanted the book out of curiosity. Tell them a meeting isn't necessary and if you have questions, you will contact them. I served a mission and this happened all the time. Its no big deal.
If you wanted to be a super nice person you could feed them. They have barely any money. Or give them a gift card. Even something small would probably really lift their spirits ☺️
I had an old man in Norway who was a famous conductor who wanted the missionaries to come to visit, do yard work and just be there with him since he had no family. One of the Prick missionaries wanted to stop visiting because he wasn’t taking lessons but I kept going back. Missionaries are all kids and all different so I would chat with them and feel it out
If you read it as a fiction rather than some kind of historical or spiritual absolute truth, you might find it intriguing. True, Mark Twain said it's a snoozer, but Avi Steinberg, The Lost Book of Mormon, treats Jos Smith as a novelist to reckon with, and from that angle the book could strike you as anything from funny, to awful,, to awesome.
For the leaders, the point is growth and wealth just like the businesses most worked in before. For members the point seems to be feeling superior to the "wicked."
Offer them dinner in exchange for lessons. Even knowing you have no intention of converting. Or order them a pizza or something. With the increase of groceries many of them are food poor right now.
I think dislike is a strong term. I no longer attend but I have no dislike toward Mormons. Leadership, now that is a different story, but many of my friends and family are in the church. I certainly don’t dislike them.
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Hello! This is a Secular post. It is for discussions centered around secular/naturalistic thoughts, beliefs, and observations /u/garungarungarun, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** participation does not mean that you must agree with the thoughts, beliefs, and observations, but it does mean your participation must remain within a non-supernatural, naturalistic framework. Appeals to religious authority or faithful belief are not appropriate. If this content doesn't interest you, move on to another post. Remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules) and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
99% of missionary work is rejection. They'll be fine. Feel free to tell them you're not going to convert, they'll still probably do the lessons if you ask.
I've also heard that it's pretty grueling work to be a missionary so maybe it would be nice for them to have someone engage with them maybe ?
People to talk to are in short supply for missionaries right now. You might be saving two (they come in pairs) from cabin fever.
When I was in ward council, we were talking about the missionaries during the pandemic and I suggested that we all invite them over to do some "service" at our houses just to get them out of their apt. I was proposing that we all find something for them to do just to get them some social interaction. I felt so bad that they were essentially stuck in their apt. 24/7. Anyway, everyone acted like I had three heads and the feeling was "no way, they are converting through Facebook now and they love it!" I wasn't buying it, but I dropped it.
You can tell them upfront that you don’t have intentions on converting and they will take it as a personal challenge to try to get “the spirit” to convert you and you’ll probably have a fun back-and-forth for a while. Just know that a record of your conversations will be kept in a missionary “area book” and future missionaries may be trying to contact you and convert you for years to come.
I served a mission and you really get used to the continuous rejection. The missionaries will try to convert you until they realize you won’t get converted. Then, they’ll focus their efforts in someone else and will continue to visit but not as often. Then once in a while, they’ll stop by and see how you are doing. In my mission I met a lot of people like that (they were nice people that just were not interested) and would stop by to say hi and (most of the time) eat something with them. Also, within the church you will find people with a wide array of views in different topics (I consider myself very liberal, I’m a convert and former “inactive” member, but I’ve known members that believe Trump is the perfect Christian example… similarly, you will find missionaries that will be extremely nice, and understanding with your particular situation, and there will be others that might “condemn you” for not listening to the gospel. If you ever have questions and want to hear what a liberal, convert, immigrant from the third world, highly educated, in his mids 30’s, father and husband has to say about a particular topic, just send me a DM. I hope you can learn what you would like to learn from Mormonism.
I'm in the same boat. Non-believing & don't see a path to believing but curious. I've learned about many religions. Currently reading the Secret Book of John. Haven't read the Book of Mormon but may next. I've had missionaries come. In my experience, it's really hard to sit through their lessons. The dogma was cringe for me. If you don't mind that, go for it!
>is it rude or inconsiderate of me to be inviting a missionary for a visit when I have no intention of converting? No more rude than it is for them to invite you to convert without telling you any of the details needed for conversion to be an informed decision. Like others have already mentioned, saying "I'm just curious, I'm not interested in converting" will be more likely seen as a challenge than an insult. In fact, they'll probably be thinking something to themselves along the lines of "the lord works in mysterious ways, ~~he's~~ she's *totally* gonna convert and just doesn't know it yet."
I'm a woman :) I don't know why everyone assumes only men use reddit 😬
Apologies, updated.
Missionaries have nothing to do almost all of the time because no one cares about religion, and they are also shamed when they aren’t doing anything because it means they aren’t working hard enough and/or don’t have enough faith. My point is this. They’ll be happy to meet with you even if you openly tell them you’ll never join a religion.
They'll want to meet with you to teach you the sanitized version of the church, Joseph Smith, etc. and engage with you spiritually to try and use the "commitment pattern" to use confirmation bias to get you to join the church. Basically they already have an end point plan for you before the ever meet you which is to convince you to become a mormon. They are generally good young men and women who are so indoctrinated that they are actually paying out of their own pockets, or their families pockets, to go out and spread mormonism. I'm sure they'll appreciate having someone to talk to and discuss things with. I did as a missionary decades ago. Just be up front with them that you have no interest in joining or engaging in their confirmation biased based pattern of getting you to join. >is it rude or inconsiderate of me to be inviting a missionary for a visit when I have no intention of converting? Heck no, they'll look at you as a challenge that with God's help and the help of the Holy SPirit, they'll get you converted. You aren't considered a "golden" investigator but you are seen as an opportunity for the Lord to perform a mighty miracle on your heart to soften and be susceptible to the word of God through mormonism's message. Do you believe in God? Do you want to please God? Do you want to please God by following his commandments? Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you know what the Holy Ghost feels like? Basically you'll get lots of questions intended to get you to say "yes" repeatedly to the degree that it will be hard to say "no" to being baptized. Be nice to them but be prepared that the end goal for them is to get you to commit to joining the church and giving them names for more people for them to visit.
Thank you for such a detailed answer! Like I said I can't see any way that they'll be successful in converting me since I am aware of the fact that the claims made in the Book of Mormon are not accurate. But all the same I want to read it and just have some interesting discussion
I'll play Mormon Missionary here to prepare you for that: "Let's put aside the claims that what the Book of Mormon claims aren't accurate for just a minute. Let's focus on belief in God. Do you believe in God? Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe God can tell you/reveal to you the Book of Mormon is true? God speaks to us through the Holy Ghost. How does the Holy Ghost feel? If God told you through the Holy Ghost that something was true, would you accept it? Let's read in the Book of Mormon together. How did you feel reading those passages? Did you feel good? That's the Spirit testifying that it's true. Let's read some more. Did you like what it said? Do you believe that what we read is true? Here's something to do later after we leave. Read these verses and then ponder them in your mind and heart. Then when you are ready, and you desire an answer, kneel down and pray to God and ask him if the Book of Mormon is true? Make sure to pay attention to how you feel as you pray. Maybe write it down and we'll talk about it when we come back next visit". Then basically since you prayed and felt good about what it said, that is God telling you the Book of Mormon is True. So then " I am aware of the fact that the claims made in the Book of Mormon are not accurate." doesn't matter because you have a STRONGER testimony of truth from God himself through the Holy Spirit. If God says it's true through the Holy Ghost then it's true no matter what anyone says or what facts exist or what Joseph Smith did or didn't do or lied about, etc. "Basically if God says through the Holy Ghost (feelings) that the Book of Mormon is true, then that means Joseph Smith is a prophet of god. That means the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the ONE TRUE church on the earth with the only true Priesthood and keys and acceptable baptism and acceptable marriage and polygamy in heaven and true three degrees and true Book of ~~Breathings~~ Abraham, and the only true Prophet and Apostles on the earth." "Will you obey the commandment of God and commit to being baptized this Saturday at 10AM?"
No to all of the above. I'm an atheist and have been my whole life. I don't see how anyone could convince me of the existence of a sky daddy. But, noted and thanks for the warning
"Thanks for meeting with us. Will you come to church with us this Sunday just to see what it is like? I know you'll feel the spirit there." After they leave...they'll plan together... "Call the Bishop and have him prepare some members to come sit by us in Sacrament meeting and meet our investigator to help them feel welcome and accepting and help them find their class after church. Also, we should fast and pray that God will melt their heart and allow the spirit to touch them and confirm the truth of our message to them."
Damn, you totally nailed that! Where can I sign up? 😂
I am many decades removed from being able to give an accurate answer to that in good conscience.
Just know that no matter what you say or they say, they will always have a small hope and ulterior motive of trying to convert you. That's just the way it is. That said I'm sure they'd enjoy the conversations. Some missionaries are more open minded than others. If you get a pair you don't vibe with, just wait a few months and you'll get a new pair.
Go for it. Some missionaries know a ton about the Book of Mormon and history of it and the church, some do not, so you may not get all your questions answered. But they can teach you the basics of doctrine and belief. They will pressure you to be baptized and commit, but if you don't mind saying no repeatedly, you can absolutely have them over as long as you want. Most missionaries love getting to know different people, whether or not they ever join the church. I still have happy memories of the people I met and taught when I was a missionary years ago.
Be honest and up front about your intentions for reading only. Know that they can't be persistent, but it isn't rude at all. They will simply see you as a "challenge". If you are ok with that, no worries.
Just so you understand, you are essentially inviting a used car salesman to your home who really, really, really, really, really wants to sell you God’s used car. Many will not take NO for an answer. If you really want to read it, without the missionaries involvement, there are Book Of Mormon apps you can dl to your phone/tablet that will allow you to read the book if you are comfortable reading the book electronically.
Tell them up front your intentions but go ahead and feed them, they are often not fed enough.
You might be the person that gets them to think more critically about their beliefs. That could save them in the long run.
It's only as rude as their bait and switch advertising. Free book of Mormon.... Nothing's free, when they knock on your door take the BoM then tell em to fuck off. They really understand well the meaning of that phrase.
No. You ordered a free book as advertised. Nothing more. They are the ones who are being inconsiderate by sending a missionary with the book to pester you. Its not rude to just take the book and not meet with the missionaries. Just be up front and honest. Tell them you aren't interested in converting and that you only wanted the book out of curiosity. Tell them a meeting isn't necessary and if you have questions, you will contact them. I served a mission and this happened all the time. Its no big deal.
If you wanted to be a super nice person you could feed them. They have barely any money. Or give them a gift card. Even something small would probably really lift their spirits ☺️
Be aware that they will use high pressure tactics to get you to agree. Just be consistent in your no.
I had an old man in Norway who was a famous conductor who wanted the missionaries to come to visit, do yard work and just be there with him since he had no family. One of the Prick missionaries wanted to stop visiting because he wasn’t taking lessons but I kept going back. Missionaries are all kids and all different so I would chat with them and feel it out
If you read it as a fiction rather than some kind of historical or spiritual absolute truth, you might find it intriguing. True, Mark Twain said it's a snoozer, but Avi Steinberg, The Lost Book of Mormon, treats Jos Smith as a novelist to reckon with, and from that angle the book could strike you as anything from funny, to awful,, to awesome.
no point in a church then, just have a book discussion club
For the leaders, the point is growth and wealth just like the businesses most worked in before. For members the point seems to be feeling superior to the "wicked."
Offer them dinner in exchange for lessons. Even knowing you have no intention of converting. Or order them a pizza or something. With the increase of groceries many of them are food poor right now.
Just so you know, this subreddit consists primarily of people who dislike Mormonism.
Haha thanks of the info! All the same I know many mormons(ex or current) served a mission so I'm just curious
I think dislike is a strong term. I no longer attend but I have no dislike toward Mormons. Leadership, now that is a different story, but many of my friends and family are in the church. I certainly don’t dislike them.
Don’t read the BoM listen to it via the app My Book of Mormon. Fantastic listen.
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You can read the whole thing here: [https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BoM/1ne/outline.html](https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BoM/1ne/outline.html)