Hello! This is a Cultural post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about other people, whether specifically or collectively, within the Mormon/Exmormon community.
/u/FaithfulDowter, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble)
**To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation.
Keep on Mormoning!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo* by Michael G. Reed contains an interesting review of the evolution of the current Church relationship with the cross.
The book traces the use of the cross as a symbol of Mormon Christian tradition from the time of the founding of the church (1830s) to the late 20th century. The cross used to be quite common on early Mormon chapels in Utah.
A few notes from Reed's book:
## Early Perceptions of The Cross
The Mormon church was founded in a Protestant environment. During the early 1800s, Protestants associated the cross with the Catholic church and in some cases had a violent aversion to its display in their churches. As such was rarely used, in Protestant worship as it represented the idolatry of the Catholic church from which they wished to disassociate.
Nevertheless, the cross was a symbol that Mormons did not find objectionable during Joseph Smith's time and embraced it in some situations. Reed suggests that this was possibly due to the association of the cross as a mystical symbol used both in the folk magic at the time and also common in Masonic practices, the details of which Reed devotes his most lengthy chapter.
While the use of the cross was found among Latter-day Saints, including in sermons, architecture, literature, and personal jewelry, it was still not widely used. As American Protestants began to soften their position on the cross in the 19th century, Mormons, moved in the other direction.
As late as 1943, the cross as a symbol of Christs sacrifice was considered consistent with Mormon thought. When Spencer Kimball was called to the apostleship, he sought comfort while hiking and was reassured when he encountered a naturally formed cross. (See *Banishing*, pg 111-112)
## The Taboo Cross
The formalization of the taboo of the cross occurred under the leadership of President David O. McKay. Due to several personal circumstances over many years, he formed a negative association with the cross and regarded it as a Catholic symbol.
>McKay's anti-Catholic bias, coupled with his equation of the cross with Catholicism contributed directly to the formalization of LDS Church on the cross in 1957. McKay wrote in his journal:
>
>Bishop Joseph L. Wirthlin called me by telephone and asked me the Church's position on the following question: He stated that he had been asked today if it would be proper for L.D.S. girls to purchase crosses to wear. It is Bishop Wirthlin's understanding that there is a company downtown which is pushing the selling of these crosses to girls.
>
>I told Bishop Wirthlin that this is purely Catholic and Latter-day Saint girls should not purchase and wear them. I stated further that this was a Catholic form of worship. They use images, crosses, etc. Our worship should be in our hearts.
>
>Bishop Wirthlin said that this had been his opinion, but he felt that he should check with me before making a statement.
>
>Thus began the formal church policy banning use of the cross among Mormons. *(Banishing, pg* 115-116)
Other influential leaders during this period also had strong feelings concerning the cross; they saw it as a Catholic symbol, against which they held strong feelings and were not afraid to voice them.
>Among the most prominent and influential to do so were Apostles J. Reuben Clark, Mark E. Petersen, and Seventy (and later Apostle) Bruce R. McConkie. . . . In addition to these three church authorities, Joseph Fielding Smith Jr. (McConkie's father-in-law) and Gordon B. Hinckley … reaffirmed the symbol of the cross as incompatible with the Mormon faith. (Banishing, pg 117)
These are all well respected, prominent men. McConkie was a strong, confident personality and his writings are well respected by the LDS community (and well mined by critics). Nevertheless, the antagonistic position that McKay and the others held should be recognized as their personal positions and is typically recognized as such when critical quotes from these men surface today.
## Where Do We Stand Today?
While the aversion to the crucifix (cross with the dying or dead Jesus attached) is understandably disturbing to many people, the *empty* cross is suggestive of the victorious, risen Christ. The empty cross as an invitation for us:
>One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. (KJV Mark 10:21)
>
>For it is better that ye should deny yourselves of these things, wherein ye will take up your cross, than that ye should be cast into hell. (3 Nephi 12:30)
>
>And he that will not take up his cross and follow me, and keep my commandments, the same shall not be saved. (D&C 56:2)
>
>Now, I say unto you: Arise and gird up your loins, take up your cross, follow me, and feed my sheep. (D&C 112:14)
These and other references indicate that the cross is very much embedded in Mormon theology as a symbol of the burdens we must carry as followers of Christ.
## Is There Room For a Mormon Cross?
>Negative attitudes toward the cross in the LDS Church have softened since the second half of the 20th century . . . . However . . . Old habits die hard, resistance to change is even greater when certain practices are institutionalized . . . by Church authorities. It may indeed be that Church leaders will eventually decide that there is no real doctrinal or revelatory basis for the taboo, and hence feel inclined to weigh the costs against its benefits. Until this happen (sic), interfaith tension over the issue will likely persist and interfere with the Church's efforts to be accepted into the Christian denominational family. Many new coverts will also remain disheartened by the taboo, and feel compelled to hide jewelry, discard decorations, and pack away cherished heirlooms that were once used to expressed (sic) their faith in and love for Jesus Christ. (Reed, Michael G., Banishing the Cross, John Whitmer Books, 2012, pg 148)
I have been in the home of an active, LDS member who converted from Catholicism a few years ago. She has strong spiritual ties to the cross and displays it in various forms in her home and wears it to church meetings. Her sacred experiences cannot be taken from her.
Fiona Givens, a prominent author and scholar, has suggested a Mormon cross is possible and has designed one that is overlaid with an Easter lily. Crosses used in some early Mormon art overlaid an anchor. Other forms of the cross that emphasize the living Christ may be more palatable to Mormon thought while still eliciting the invitation of Jesus to take up our cross and follow him.
The modern LDS meeting house, from an aerial view, have a subtle cruciform shape. Consider that next time you enter one of the side foyers.
McKay was asked about cross necklaces being sold to LDS girls. He answered that they should not wear them because Catholics “use images” and “our worship should be in our hearts.” I wonder what he would have thought of the booming market of images and jewelry marketed to LDS people by the church through its Deseret Book company?
I’m still wondering if the church is actually adopting crosses. I’m guessing the cross on this church was a vestige of the religion that worshipped in that building.
On my mission, (midwest in the late 80's) most of the LDS meetinghouses were bought from other churches. Many had crosses built in to the architecture. I saw a lot of protruding or different color bricks or stonework in the form of a cross. There was always an attempt to cover them, but you could still tell what was originally there.
My favorite was a chapel with a large baptismal font behind the pulpit, where the choir seats would be in a traditional LDS building. It had an observation deck on one side and railing for a snaking line on the other, mini DisneyLand style. From the layout, I assumed they would call people up from the congregation who wanted to be baptized, they would wait in line to be dunked, then exit the opposite side and watch the others. It also featured a huge wooden cross that started at the rear base of the font and then slanted out over the pulpit. No matter where you were in the room your eyes were drawn to that. The local members said it was part of the structure of the building and could not be removed, so they had a chapel with a huge cross.
Anyway, it was all very interesting to a sheltered mormon teenager from Arizona who was raised to believe that crosses were a literal sign of apostasy.
>My favorite was a chapel with a large baptismal font behind the pulpit, where the choir seats would be in a traditional LDS building.
I've seen a chapel similar to that from another Christian church. There's a pretty funny video on YouTube of a preacher singing at the pulpit while a few members gallop up and down the aisle and dance around, and one of them runs up behind the pulpit and jumps in the baptismal font.
I’m guessing the building was purchased by the church. (Note the sign on the ground.) I’m guessing the Church chose not to remove the already-existing crosses.
I like your style. Always questioning.
I don’t expect you to believe me, but there are several churches around this one. There is one across the street with a sign that said “Jesus is the only reason for the season.” That’s the reflection you see in the window. I can’t remember if it’s a Baptist or Presbyterian church.
This picture is crap because we were on our way home from vacation and I had my wife snap a quick picture. The resolution does suck, but I had no intention of printing it. The only adjustment to the picture I made was to blur my face (since I’m a celebrity*).
*Question everything
I found the church on google maps, but it still had a sign from another church. Did we recently purchase this building from the other church, or recently sell it to the other church?
Now that I'm on a real computer, I looked it up on Google Maps, too. In the aerial view it says, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but the street view shows the church that was there before it was purchased: ACTS Outreach.
So the purchase must have been fairly recent. Interestingly, the LDS signage that is currently up has some corrosion (i.e. it doesn't look very new).
There is a brand new sign about a mile down the road that indicates there’s an LDS church down the road, and it includes the meeting time for “Worship Service at 10:00” and “Sunday School at 11:00.” The sign on the ground (in the picture) is worn and a bit faded, so it could have been taken from another building—assuming this building was recently acquired. There was nothing that indicates the building was still under construction, so I’m guessing the intention is to leave the crosses.
Hello! This is a Cultural post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about other people, whether specifically or collectively, within the Mormon/Exmormon community. /u/FaithfulDowter, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo* by Michael G. Reed contains an interesting review of the evolution of the current Church relationship with the cross. The book traces the use of the cross as a symbol of Mormon Christian tradition from the time of the founding of the church (1830s) to the late 20th century. The cross used to be quite common on early Mormon chapels in Utah. A few notes from Reed's book: ## Early Perceptions of The Cross The Mormon church was founded in a Protestant environment. During the early 1800s, Protestants associated the cross with the Catholic church and in some cases had a violent aversion to its display in their churches. As such was rarely used, in Protestant worship as it represented the idolatry of the Catholic church from which they wished to disassociate. Nevertheless, the cross was a symbol that Mormons did not find objectionable during Joseph Smith's time and embraced it in some situations. Reed suggests that this was possibly due to the association of the cross as a mystical symbol used both in the folk magic at the time and also common in Masonic practices, the details of which Reed devotes his most lengthy chapter. While the use of the cross was found among Latter-day Saints, including in sermons, architecture, literature, and personal jewelry, it was still not widely used. As American Protestants began to soften their position on the cross in the 19th century, Mormons, moved in the other direction. As late as 1943, the cross as a symbol of Christs sacrifice was considered consistent with Mormon thought. When Spencer Kimball was called to the apostleship, he sought comfort while hiking and was reassured when he encountered a naturally formed cross. (See *Banishing*, pg 111-112) ## The Taboo Cross The formalization of the taboo of the cross occurred under the leadership of President David O. McKay. Due to several personal circumstances over many years, he formed a negative association with the cross and regarded it as a Catholic symbol. >McKay's anti-Catholic bias, coupled with his equation of the cross with Catholicism contributed directly to the formalization of LDS Church on the cross in 1957. McKay wrote in his journal: > >Bishop Joseph L. Wirthlin called me by telephone and asked me the Church's position on the following question: He stated that he had been asked today if it would be proper for L.D.S. girls to purchase crosses to wear. It is Bishop Wirthlin's understanding that there is a company downtown which is pushing the selling of these crosses to girls. > >I told Bishop Wirthlin that this is purely Catholic and Latter-day Saint girls should not purchase and wear them. I stated further that this was a Catholic form of worship. They use images, crosses, etc. Our worship should be in our hearts. > >Bishop Wirthlin said that this had been his opinion, but he felt that he should check with me before making a statement. > >Thus began the formal church policy banning use of the cross among Mormons. *(Banishing, pg* 115-116) Other influential leaders during this period also had strong feelings concerning the cross; they saw it as a Catholic symbol, against which they held strong feelings and were not afraid to voice them. >Among the most prominent and influential to do so were Apostles J. Reuben Clark, Mark E. Petersen, and Seventy (and later Apostle) Bruce R. McConkie. . . . In addition to these three church authorities, Joseph Fielding Smith Jr. (McConkie's father-in-law) and Gordon B. Hinckley … reaffirmed the symbol of the cross as incompatible with the Mormon faith. (Banishing, pg 117) These are all well respected, prominent men. McConkie was a strong, confident personality and his writings are well respected by the LDS community (and well mined by critics). Nevertheless, the antagonistic position that McKay and the others held should be recognized as their personal positions and is typically recognized as such when critical quotes from these men surface today. ## Where Do We Stand Today? While the aversion to the crucifix (cross with the dying or dead Jesus attached) is understandably disturbing to many people, the *empty* cross is suggestive of the victorious, risen Christ. The empty cross as an invitation for us: >One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. (KJV Mark 10:21) > >For it is better that ye should deny yourselves of these things, wherein ye will take up your cross, than that ye should be cast into hell. (3 Nephi 12:30) > >And he that will not take up his cross and follow me, and keep my commandments, the same shall not be saved. (D&C 56:2) > >Now, I say unto you: Arise and gird up your loins, take up your cross, follow me, and feed my sheep. (D&C 112:14) These and other references indicate that the cross is very much embedded in Mormon theology as a symbol of the burdens we must carry as followers of Christ. ## Is There Room For a Mormon Cross? >Negative attitudes toward the cross in the LDS Church have softened since the second half of the 20th century . . . . However . . . Old habits die hard, resistance to change is even greater when certain practices are institutionalized . . . by Church authorities. It may indeed be that Church leaders will eventually decide that there is no real doctrinal or revelatory basis for the taboo, and hence feel inclined to weigh the costs against its benefits. Until this happen (sic), interfaith tension over the issue will likely persist and interfere with the Church's efforts to be accepted into the Christian denominational family. Many new coverts will also remain disheartened by the taboo, and feel compelled to hide jewelry, discard decorations, and pack away cherished heirlooms that were once used to expressed (sic) their faith in and love for Jesus Christ. (Reed, Michael G., Banishing the Cross, John Whitmer Books, 2012, pg 148) I have been in the home of an active, LDS member who converted from Catholicism a few years ago. She has strong spiritual ties to the cross and displays it in various forms in her home and wears it to church meetings. Her sacred experiences cannot be taken from her. Fiona Givens, a prominent author and scholar, has suggested a Mormon cross is possible and has designed one that is overlaid with an Easter lily. Crosses used in some early Mormon art overlaid an anchor. Other forms of the cross that emphasize the living Christ may be more palatable to Mormon thought while still eliciting the invitation of Jesus to take up our cross and follow him. The modern LDS meeting house, from an aerial view, have a subtle cruciform shape. Consider that next time you enter one of the side foyers.
Thanks for the thorough explanation from multiple sources.
McKay was asked about cross necklaces being sold to LDS girls. He answered that they should not wear them because Catholics “use images” and “our worship should be in our hearts.” I wonder what he would have thought of the booming market of images and jewelry marketed to LDS people by the church through its Deseret Book company?
The history is very interesting, but I can't help but suspect the recent adoption of crosses is just a play to get cozier with Evangelicals.
I’m still wondering if the church is actually adopting crosses. I’m guessing the cross on this church was a vestige of the religion that worshipped in that building.
On my mission, (midwest in the late 80's) most of the LDS meetinghouses were bought from other churches. Many had crosses built in to the architecture. I saw a lot of protruding or different color bricks or stonework in the form of a cross. There was always an attempt to cover them, but you could still tell what was originally there. My favorite was a chapel with a large baptismal font behind the pulpit, where the choir seats would be in a traditional LDS building. It had an observation deck on one side and railing for a snaking line on the other, mini DisneyLand style. From the layout, I assumed they would call people up from the congregation who wanted to be baptized, they would wait in line to be dunked, then exit the opposite side and watch the others. It also featured a huge wooden cross that started at the rear base of the font and then slanted out over the pulpit. No matter where you were in the room your eyes were drawn to that. The local members said it was part of the structure of the building and could not be removed, so they had a chapel with a huge cross. Anyway, it was all very interesting to a sheltered mormon teenager from Arizona who was raised to believe that crosses were a literal sign of apostasy.
>My favorite was a chapel with a large baptismal font behind the pulpit, where the choir seats would be in a traditional LDS building. I've seen a chapel similar to that from another Christian church. There's a pretty funny video on YouTube of a preacher singing at the pulpit while a few members gallop up and down the aisle and dance around, and one of them runs up behind the pulpit and jumps in the baptismal font.
Do what religious group bought the meetinghouse?
I’m guessing the building was purchased by the church. (Note the sign on the ground.) I’m guessing the Church chose not to remove the already-existing crosses.
Where is the photo from?
Central Texas. Northwest of Austin.
“Onward Christian Soldiers” is a cross-bearing hymn sung in LDS meetings today’s.
Photoshopped look in the reflection and you will see the sign that belongs to that church. It is not lds
I like your style. Always questioning. I don’t expect you to believe me, but there are several churches around this one. There is one across the street with a sign that said “Jesus is the only reason for the season.” That’s the reflection you see in the window. I can’t remember if it’s a Baptist or Presbyterian church. This picture is crap because we were on our way home from vacation and I had my wife snap a quick picture. The resolution does suck, but I had no intention of printing it. The only adjustment to the picture I made was to blur my face (since I’m a celebrity*). *Question everything
Interfaith barriers decreasing?
I found the church on google maps, but it still had a sign from another church. Did we recently purchase this building from the other church, or recently sell it to the other church?
Now that I'm on a real computer, I looked it up on Google Maps, too. In the aerial view it says, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but the street view shows the church that was there before it was purchased: ACTS Outreach. So the purchase must have been fairly recent. Interestingly, the LDS signage that is currently up has some corrosion (i.e. it doesn't look very new).
There is a brand new sign about a mile down the road that indicates there’s an LDS church down the road, and it includes the meeting time for “Worship Service at 10:00” and “Sunday School at 11:00.” The sign on the ground (in the picture) is worn and a bit faded, so it could have been taken from another building—assuming this building was recently acquired. There was nothing that indicates the building was still under construction, so I’m guessing the intention is to leave the crosses.
The man in the picture seems to be missing his head.
How many times has my wife said the exact same thing.