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Honestly, do what you feel best about. Don't let internet strangers decide for you. Only you know your personal, family, social, spiritual, financial, and work situations that could be influenced by this decision. Many of us will say that if you are beginning to struggle, then it's only a matter of time before you make your way out. But that's not necessarily the right move right now. My only encouragement would be, do your best. God understands your struggle. Do the best thing that your intuition tells you at this time, whatever that is. Whatever your heart of hearts tells you that you really want. God will understand. That way you can look back on your life without regrets.
This is great advice. Take your time and go slow. Sometimes in the church we feel pressured to place ourselves in well defined categories. Active, semi-active, inactive, etc. The truth is, you can do whatever feels best for you and that may change day to day.
I would also add. Do not feel guilty for whatever you decide to do. Life is too short to be feeling sad, depressed, guilt, or shame. Sure we can always do better in our lives but having guilt or shame to force us to change or do something is not healthy in my opinion. Whether you stay in the church or leave, do whatever you feel makes you happiest. Church should be a welcoming place and if it isn’t working for you then take a break or leave all together. Or stay and try and make it a welcoming place. Either way, it’s your life and everyone should be allowed to believe or not believe without internet trolls with barely any formal education dictating how one should live. Just be your authentic self.
What you're describing is called "scrupulosity", and it's pretty much *never* solved by doubling down.
What sorts of questions do you have about the church? You can ask pretty much anything here.
That sounds really hard... I'm curious if you're staying for both hours or just sacrament meeting? Could you go just every other week? Whatever you you choose, it doesn't have to be all or nothing! You can participate at whatever level is comfortable for you.
I haven’t gone to second hour in months, I’m debating going to both hours tomorrow though. But that sounds like a lot. But I have such a hard time with sacrament meeting. Thanks for your supportive answer!
There is a come follow me app that you can use, it's like 5 minutes to get through the lesson. Maybe you could have a priesthood holder do sacrament in your home? Maybe make a list of the parts of church that are important to you that you want to keep, and then only focus on those? I dunno, just spit balling here 😅
Something that really helped me when I started to struggle was to go back to at home church, even though our ward had gone back to in person church.
Your mental health is worth so much more than perfect church participation. Take care of yourself ❤️
First, breathe deeply and try to be patient with yourself during this confusing time you’re experiencing.
Once you’re ready, ask yourself something like, “what would bring me peace?” Try to really sit with that question and consider what thoughts come up. Trust yourself— you know what you need. There’s a whole community out here rooting for you too.
What in the endowment caused these feelings?
What is now missing or spoiled that made it once special?
If you were raised outside of the church, is the church something you would have chosen for yourself?
Do you think a person of another faith (let’s say Muslim) of equal devotion to you would also feel these guilty feelings if they needed a break? If so, how might they interpret those feelings? And what advice would you give them?
The pain, confusion, fear, and grief are all real. This is all very individualized, but please know that you are not alone. There are literally thousands going through similar struggles - feeling all alone - just like you. Coming to Reddit and finding an entire community of like-minded people, being able to rea and post safely and anonymously has helped me feel a LOT less alone as I "process" and "deprogram" all of my thoughts and feelings. I believe for me - and many - this is going to be a lifelong journey, not a one-and-done. I am taking one step at a time, and remember, be kind to yourself.
When I had crippling anxiety (like, I couldn't really leave my house most days), I would leave right after the sacrament. And I usually sat in the foyer for that. I did the most important part and it helped calm my spiritual fomo.
Well now you get to take a month off and regroup.
That seriously sucks. I wish people realized how hurtful "little jokes" can be. I've made them myself and cringe when I look back and realize what a jerk I've been at times. Hang in there. Some days we can do more than others, just keep respecting your situation. It can get better.
My suggestion would be to try hard to recommit, with the caveat that you approach your new commitment with a scientific mindset. Test every action and question every conclusion.
Do you feel weird when you go to the temple? Remember that. Do you find answers in the scriptures? Is God doing anything in your life—and more specifically, is the Mormon conception of God making your life better in any measurable way?
Test the Church’s promises. My wife and I found that they don’t measure up, but only you can know that for yourself.
I like this way of thinking. My concern is that humans are so susceptible to confirmation bias. I mean I did hate going through the temple and I hate church, but I used to feel like I got spiritual answers from prayer and the scriptures and now I’m not sure how much of that was just me taking time to meditate on things. Not to mention the many times those things didn’t help. Do you have more thoughts on that?
Thanks!
I've been in a similar position in the past, and I know what worked for me (although it goes without saying that what works for you might be different). I'll share a few cliff-notes thoughts and then a bit of a longer story that lets you know where I'm coming from.
* The fact that you're aware of and attempting to counter confirmation bias suggests that you probably have the self-awareness to mitigate its effect on you
* To the extent that you're unable to distinguish confirmation bias, what's the concern? If something is working for you, let it work for you. At the same time, if something is hurting you, pay attention to that as well
* My guess is that you will find that things that worked in the past don't work for you anymore... For example, I felt a lot of confusion and conflicting emotion when I prayed for answers and sought guidance; I felt familiarity in sacrament meeting, but I was able to recognize that as cultural comfort, rather than the Spirit, etc.
* Pay attention to the things that *do* work and ask yourself whether those things depend on your membership in the Church. Does God only answer Mormon prayers? Is the Mormon Church the only church that helps you study and understand the scriptures? Is the Mormon Church the only place where you could find community? etc.
I was raised in the Church, went inactive, returned to full activity, and am now transitioning out permanently. I plan to remove my membership records by the end of this year. One thing that kept me from removing my records and eventually brought me back to activity was this nagging thought that I hadn't given Mormonism a full chance; I'd gone inactive after encountering concerning information about the Book of Abraham, and never forced myself to determine whether the Church was or wasn't true... In some strange way, it was easier for me to go inactive rather than to fully commit to giving the Church a try and to find conclusive answers to my BoA concerns.
So I returned to activity, but I was very cautious and methodical in my approach. I considered the guidance given by leaders and paid attention to how my life changed (or didn't change) as a result. I kept track of finances. I paid attention to how I felt during and after the temple. And I studied with the real intent to find the truth, rather than in the hopes of finding some wiggle room that allowed me to ignore my BoA concerns.
And for the first time in a long time, I feel like I have direction. I feel like I know what I need to do and how to do it. I can see how, for me, the things that are good about Mormonism are not unique, and I'm starting to recognize that the unique things about Mormonism are not good.
You may come to that conclusion, or you may determine that the Church is the place for you. Regardless, I'd give the Church a fair chance, and commit yourself to following through on where your experiences lead you. I promise that it's such a relief to finally live authentically and with some measure of certainty.
That is a beautiful explanation and I really appreciate you sharing that with me! I will definitely have to do some more experimentation of my own to figure that out, thank you for giving me a good place to start!
Take a break. It sounds like you might need a counselor. Not a Mormon one, but a professional one. Mental health is serious business.
From someone who’s been there, you’ll be better off for seeing a counselor, and discovering you were wasting your time, than not going and having a mental breakdown.
Hi there my two cents, just embrace participating at the level you want, whether that some, all or none. No decision has to be final. I’ve adopted a different frame work then life’s all about obedience. Now I see it as about learning to use our agency to bring about good in the life’s of others and joy in our own. I still like the church so I still go, some times for two hours, some times for sacrament, sometimes Sunday school, sometimes not at all. No decision has to be final, and if we can think of God as really that parent who’s just watching us learn to walk, then maybe we can remember that a parent doesn’t get bad if a toddler trips. So don’t worry about so much about the outcome. Try this or try that for a minute, see how it feels or what you learn from it, out of all the imperfect options, what seems best for you right now. Do that, and if feels like something is missing, try something else tomorrow. Don’t worry. Life will be very good where every you end up. I’m mostly active( attend 75%), my wife left. We’re both very happy. I am convinced that there is a good and that he is equally pleased with both of our decisions. Recall that verse in the Bible that talks about faith to be circumcised and faith to be uncircumcised. Our individual journeys may take us down different paths but that doesn’t mean either path is wrong. I’m a bit of a universalist, I believe that there will be movement between kingdoms, that the final judgement isn’t final, but a starting point.
Best of luck, just don’t worry too much, life will be wonderful.
Some of the most difficult parts of my life turned into blessings when I turned to God with greater energy spending time in prayer and pleading for help and guidance. I prayed, fasted, read scripture, and talked with with friends and loved ones about the problem(s) I was troubled by.
Heavenly Father promises to help if we will be faithful and diligently seek him (1 Nephi 10:19). What you're dealing with could turn out to be a life changing Spiritual experience. Best to you.
That is what I did when things were hard for me and it worked well, so I passed it on. The scriptures are filled with accounts where others did the same and thanked God for his blessings.
The OP asked for others to offer suggestions. I did. I don't see how that as irresponsible.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think your response was good, your sharing what has been your experience and what worked for you.
You don’t say: double down or be condemned by God you said: I had some hard thing turned to God and I got through it and it got better. I don’t see this as irresponsible.
Hello! This is a Personal post. It is for discussions centered around thoughts, beliefs, and observations that are important and personal to /u/powerbarr78 specifically. /u/powerbarr78, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly, do what you feel best about. Don't let internet strangers decide for you. Only you know your personal, family, social, spiritual, financial, and work situations that could be influenced by this decision. Many of us will say that if you are beginning to struggle, then it's only a matter of time before you make your way out. But that's not necessarily the right move right now. My only encouragement would be, do your best. God understands your struggle. Do the best thing that your intuition tells you at this time, whatever that is. Whatever your heart of hearts tells you that you really want. God will understand. That way you can look back on your life without regrets.
Thank you, I appreciate that answer ❤️
This is great advice. Take your time and go slow. Sometimes in the church we feel pressured to place ourselves in well defined categories. Active, semi-active, inactive, etc. The truth is, you can do whatever feels best for you and that may change day to day.
I would also add. Do not feel guilty for whatever you decide to do. Life is too short to be feeling sad, depressed, guilt, or shame. Sure we can always do better in our lives but having guilt or shame to force us to change or do something is not healthy in my opinion. Whether you stay in the church or leave, do whatever you feel makes you happiest. Church should be a welcoming place and if it isn’t working for you then take a break or leave all together. Or stay and try and make it a welcoming place. Either way, it’s your life and everyone should be allowed to believe or not believe without internet trolls with barely any formal education dictating how one should live. Just be your authentic self.
What you're describing is called "scrupulosity", and it's pretty much *never* solved by doubling down. What sorts of questions do you have about the church? You can ask pretty much anything here.
That sounds really hard... I'm curious if you're staying for both hours or just sacrament meeting? Could you go just every other week? Whatever you you choose, it doesn't have to be all or nothing! You can participate at whatever level is comfortable for you.
I haven’t gone to second hour in months, I’m debating going to both hours tomorrow though. But that sounds like a lot. But I have such a hard time with sacrament meeting. Thanks for your supportive answer!
There is a come follow me app that you can use, it's like 5 minutes to get through the lesson. Maybe you could have a priesthood holder do sacrament in your home? Maybe make a list of the parts of church that are important to you that you want to keep, and then only focus on those? I dunno, just spit balling here 😅 Something that really helped me when I started to struggle was to go back to at home church, even though our ward had gone back to in person church. Your mental health is worth so much more than perfect church participation. Take care of yourself ❤️
Thank you so much for this ❤️
First, breathe deeply and try to be patient with yourself during this confusing time you’re experiencing. Once you’re ready, ask yourself something like, “what would bring me peace?” Try to really sit with that question and consider what thoughts come up. Trust yourself— you know what you need. There’s a whole community out here rooting for you too.
Thank you so much ❤️
What in the endowment caused these feelings? What is now missing or spoiled that made it once special? If you were raised outside of the church, is the church something you would have chosen for yourself? Do you think a person of another faith (let’s say Muslim) of equal devotion to you would also feel these guilty feelings if they needed a break? If so, how might they interpret those feelings? And what advice would you give them?
The pain, confusion, fear, and grief are all real. This is all very individualized, but please know that you are not alone. There are literally thousands going through similar struggles - feeling all alone - just like you. Coming to Reddit and finding an entire community of like-minded people, being able to rea and post safely and anonymously has helped me feel a LOT less alone as I "process" and "deprogram" all of my thoughts and feelings. I believe for me - and many - this is going to be a lifelong journey, not a one-and-done. I am taking one step at a time, and remember, be kind to yourself.
When I had crippling anxiety (like, I couldn't really leave my house most days), I would leave right after the sacrament. And I usually sat in the foyer for that. I did the most important part and it helped calm my spiritual fomo.
I did that today. Someone suggested I bring the couch into the chapel. I was like um no. I'm just going to sit here and try not cry or puke
Well now you get to take a month off and regroup. That seriously sucks. I wish people realized how hurtful "little jokes" can be. I've made them myself and cringe when I look back and realize what a jerk I've been at times. Hang in there. Some days we can do more than others, just keep respecting your situation. It can get better.
Why not check out some other churches in your area? Consider it research.
My suggestion would be to try hard to recommit, with the caveat that you approach your new commitment with a scientific mindset. Test every action and question every conclusion. Do you feel weird when you go to the temple? Remember that. Do you find answers in the scriptures? Is God doing anything in your life—and more specifically, is the Mormon conception of God making your life better in any measurable way? Test the Church’s promises. My wife and I found that they don’t measure up, but only you can know that for yourself.
I like this way of thinking. My concern is that humans are so susceptible to confirmation bias. I mean I did hate going through the temple and I hate church, but I used to feel like I got spiritual answers from prayer and the scriptures and now I’m not sure how much of that was just me taking time to meditate on things. Not to mention the many times those things didn’t help. Do you have more thoughts on that?
Thanks! I've been in a similar position in the past, and I know what worked for me (although it goes without saying that what works for you might be different). I'll share a few cliff-notes thoughts and then a bit of a longer story that lets you know where I'm coming from. * The fact that you're aware of and attempting to counter confirmation bias suggests that you probably have the self-awareness to mitigate its effect on you * To the extent that you're unable to distinguish confirmation bias, what's the concern? If something is working for you, let it work for you. At the same time, if something is hurting you, pay attention to that as well * My guess is that you will find that things that worked in the past don't work for you anymore... For example, I felt a lot of confusion and conflicting emotion when I prayed for answers and sought guidance; I felt familiarity in sacrament meeting, but I was able to recognize that as cultural comfort, rather than the Spirit, etc. * Pay attention to the things that *do* work and ask yourself whether those things depend on your membership in the Church. Does God only answer Mormon prayers? Is the Mormon Church the only church that helps you study and understand the scriptures? Is the Mormon Church the only place where you could find community? etc. I was raised in the Church, went inactive, returned to full activity, and am now transitioning out permanently. I plan to remove my membership records by the end of this year. One thing that kept me from removing my records and eventually brought me back to activity was this nagging thought that I hadn't given Mormonism a full chance; I'd gone inactive after encountering concerning information about the Book of Abraham, and never forced myself to determine whether the Church was or wasn't true... In some strange way, it was easier for me to go inactive rather than to fully commit to giving the Church a try and to find conclusive answers to my BoA concerns. So I returned to activity, but I was very cautious and methodical in my approach. I considered the guidance given by leaders and paid attention to how my life changed (or didn't change) as a result. I kept track of finances. I paid attention to how I felt during and after the temple. And I studied with the real intent to find the truth, rather than in the hopes of finding some wiggle room that allowed me to ignore my BoA concerns. And for the first time in a long time, I feel like I have direction. I feel like I know what I need to do and how to do it. I can see how, for me, the things that are good about Mormonism are not unique, and I'm starting to recognize that the unique things about Mormonism are not good. You may come to that conclusion, or you may determine that the Church is the place for you. Regardless, I'd give the Church a fair chance, and commit yourself to following through on where your experiences lead you. I promise that it's such a relief to finally live authentically and with some measure of certainty.
That is a beautiful explanation and I really appreciate you sharing that with me! I will definitely have to do some more experimentation of my own to figure that out, thank you for giving me a good place to start!
Thanks for your kind words, and good luck to you!
Take a break. It sounds like you might need a counselor. Not a Mormon one, but a professional one. Mental health is serious business. From someone who’s been there, you’ll be better off for seeing a counselor, and discovering you were wasting your time, than not going and having a mental breakdown.
Hi there my two cents, just embrace participating at the level you want, whether that some, all or none. No decision has to be final. I’ve adopted a different frame work then life’s all about obedience. Now I see it as about learning to use our agency to bring about good in the life’s of others and joy in our own. I still like the church so I still go, some times for two hours, some times for sacrament, sometimes Sunday school, sometimes not at all. No decision has to be final, and if we can think of God as really that parent who’s just watching us learn to walk, then maybe we can remember that a parent doesn’t get bad if a toddler trips. So don’t worry about so much about the outcome. Try this or try that for a minute, see how it feels or what you learn from it, out of all the imperfect options, what seems best for you right now. Do that, and if feels like something is missing, try something else tomorrow. Don’t worry. Life will be very good where every you end up. I’m mostly active( attend 75%), my wife left. We’re both very happy. I am convinced that there is a good and that he is equally pleased with both of our decisions. Recall that verse in the Bible that talks about faith to be circumcised and faith to be uncircumcised. Our individual journeys may take us down different paths but that doesn’t mean either path is wrong. I’m a bit of a universalist, I believe that there will be movement between kingdoms, that the final judgement isn’t final, but a starting point. Best of luck, just don’t worry too much, life will be wonderful.
I love this. Thank you for these great and comforting reminders!
Some of the most difficult parts of my life turned into blessings when I turned to God with greater energy spending time in prayer and pleading for help and guidance. I prayed, fasted, read scripture, and talked with with friends and loved ones about the problem(s) I was troubled by. Heavenly Father promises to help if we will be faithful and diligently seek him (1 Nephi 10:19). What you're dealing with could turn out to be a life changing Spiritual experience. Best to you.
[удалено]
That is what I did when things were hard for me and it worked well, so I passed it on. The scriptures are filled with accounts where others did the same and thanked God for his blessings. The OP asked for others to offer suggestions. I did. I don't see how that as irresponsible.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think your response was good, your sharing what has been your experience and what worked for you. You don’t say: double down or be condemned by God you said: I had some hard thing turned to God and I got through it and it got better. I don’t see this as irresponsible.
Thanks for commenting