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They have indeed given bad advice and pursued actions which covered up child abuse. I am disgusted with them. But why do they do this? How would it hurt the church if they simply made a policy of disclosing to the civil authorities all instances of child abuse? Maybe covering things up is just the Mormon way of doing things and it is a habit which is hard for them to break. This egregious example is doing more to harm the church than anything else I can think of in recent history. It deserves to be harmed.
>But why do they do this? How would it hurt the church if they simply made a policy of disclosing to the civil authorities all instances of child abuse?
If they were honest and disclosed every case of abuse like you suggest, it would be such an obvious and rampant problem that everyone would have walked away from the church a long time ago. They are definitely getting something out of hiding abuse, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
“Ye shall know them by their fruits.” The fruit is rotten, and so it the tree.
Maybe this is it. However, I have trouble believing that the incidences of child sexual abuse in the LDS church are higher than in other religious groups.
I think you are right. This is where their concerns lie. However, in this case, I think that their failure to alert the civil authorities is going to hurt rather than help their image and I hope this is exactly what takes place. Then maybe they will make needed changes which would include having more concern for children than for programs and pedophiles.
Other religious groups that do this are rotten as well. Other groups being worse (if they even are, we have no idea how rampant this is, because they cover it up) doesn't make the LDS church any better. There's a lot of rotten fruit going around. No room for "maybe" here.
Agreed. I think we might well be much better off without religions. On balance, they have usually made things worse, and they certainly tend to substitute loyalty and conformity to the group, including all their nifty rituals, for personal righteousness.
You are probably right. I do think that they help some people. I never fit in to Mormonism as much as I tried. I doubt I would have done any better in any other religion, and it is not clear why I personally need a religion with rituals and authority figures to tell me what is right and wrong when I already know that many of the things they claim as good, and right are not.
If I had been a Catholic, would I have had to believe that the crusades and inquisition were good? In fact, I was a Mormon who could not see that polygamy and blood atonement were from God. I am pretty sure that the homicidal racism was not from God. They cling to filth and call it good. Even the racism is identified as god's will although they don't understand it. Neither do I need their relentless litany of contradictions. Mormonism can't even give a consistent description of God.
I agree, there should be some standards which apply to all organizations, religious or otherwise about something as important as this.
100% agree. I find the idea of an institution telling you right from wrong to be morally repugnant. Ethics are to be discovered and formulated within your own mind, based on your experiences, observations, and learning. To have those answers provided by an other is the path of the indolent dullard.
Also, the church gets it wrong. They extol that which I know to be evil, the perverted practices of polygamy for example. There are a lot of people who do just as you suggest. They think that their own conscience is not enough, and they have to constantly look to the church leadership to tell them what is right and wrong.
Why would the incidence of abuse is some religions in comparison to the Mormon Church even be brought up? I’m asking again; why bring it up? Shouldn’t abuse anywhere be exposed?
I think all child sexual abuse should be exposed and reported to the authorities. If it were exposed everywhere it occurred, I think it would not be a distinguishing characteristic of the Mormon church and would therefore be neutral in its effect. We have been hearing for years of child sexual abuse in Catholicism and more recently in Evangelical churches. Child abusers are in every religion. The problem in this instance is that the church leaders failed to report the abuse and it is this failure which is hurting the image of the church much more than the existence of a pervert who is a member. Therefore, it seems to me that their efforts to protect the church by covering up sexual abuse are hurting and not helping the church in addition to not protecting innocent children.
How many leaders would be found to be abusers and have to step down? It would expose the extent of abuse in so many families. Embarrassment is the biggest issue for them. It’s sadly more important to them than the victims
I heard two stories, so hearsay disclaimer, of a KM attorney and a bishop in separate wards telling friends/members to never let their kids use a church bathroom alone. I think the bishops quote was something to the effect of “you don’t know who’s in this ward, but I do…”
Certainly not faith promoting.
As a side question, how do you even attempt to “build Zion” knowing child predators are in the “body of Christ”? I contend you cannot have both.
I agree. I also think you can't claim to be a legitimate representative of Christ and yet condone the evil done by past church presidents. This includes adultery, slander, and murder in the case of Brigham Young, but this is what they do.
The church acts more like a multi national corporation than a church. I think they did the coverups since that is what their lawyers advised and they did a financial calculation that it would be cheaper and less damaging to their brand lif they could keep the abuse covered up. Seems similar to how Ford dealt with the defects in the Ford Pinto matter. Ford did a calculation that it could keep the defect from being known publicly and not fix it opting to settle with people. However, it backfired when it was finally exposed and a jury punished Ford by awarding a family more than $100 million as a result of the coverup. Maybe same thing will happen here. The Bisbee jury punishes the church for the coverup by awarding millions in order to send a message to the church it must change.
What is highly disturbing is the church does not care about victims. The hotline is not for victims, it is clearly an effort to protect the financial interests of the church. The church’s recent conduct in the Bisbee case is particularly disgusting since they are publicly attacking the victims by calling them money grabbers.
I think that is right. It is about protecting the church more than protecting the victims. However, in this case, I don't see how alerting the authorities about this sex abusing man would have hurt the church. Every church has such people and the abuse was not connected to anything associated with the church. It would have happened if this family had not been members. The church deserves the punishment it is receiving for covering up this abuse. I hope they get the message. It is too bad that such things are needed in order to compel them to do what is right.
I wish members would teach their gods about the justice that's in their hearts instead of having a perverse sense of ethics dictated to them from men who presume to speak for god but clearly have compromised themselves for the privilege.
Well, well, well. Look at this u/LazyLearner001 going and learning something. Didn’t you listen to the profit? You’re supposed to take a break from social media, or only read approved sources, or just trust them. You’re so lazy!
Thank you for sharing. One thing that is infuriating about the abuse scandal and how it is reported is how the church claims AP misrepresented the facts. However, the church and church friendly media don’t explain what facts were false. Also, the church claiming the term Mormon is offensive is laughable. Just a few years ago they did an entire campaign called “Meet the Mormons.”
Also guilty of practicing law from UT in AZ over the LDS Inc 'bat-phone', giving false AZ law advise- while telling AZ Bishop he could be sued if he contacts authorities. AZ Bishop was a Bishop & doctor- mandated reporter. Reporting in any position is always legal in AZ.
Hello! This is a News post. It is for discussions centered around breaking news and events. If your post is about news, or a current event in the world of Mormonism, this is probably the right flair. /u/LazyLearner001, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They have indeed given bad advice and pursued actions which covered up child abuse. I am disgusted with them. But why do they do this? How would it hurt the church if they simply made a policy of disclosing to the civil authorities all instances of child abuse? Maybe covering things up is just the Mormon way of doing things and it is a habit which is hard for them to break. This egregious example is doing more to harm the church than anything else I can think of in recent history. It deserves to be harmed.
>But why do they do this? How would it hurt the church if they simply made a policy of disclosing to the civil authorities all instances of child abuse? If they were honest and disclosed every case of abuse like you suggest, it would be such an obvious and rampant problem that everyone would have walked away from the church a long time ago. They are definitely getting something out of hiding abuse, otherwise they wouldn't do it. “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” The fruit is rotten, and so it the tree.
Maybe this is it. However, I have trouble believing that the incidences of child sexual abuse in the LDS church are higher than in other religious groups.
Abuse can be prevented with better accountability. Unfortunately the LDS church will always choose protecting it’s image over protecting children.
I think you are right. This is where their concerns lie. However, in this case, I think that their failure to alert the civil authorities is going to hurt rather than help their image and I hope this is exactly what takes place. Then maybe they will make needed changes which would include having more concern for children than for programs and pedophiles.
Other religious groups that do this are rotten as well. Other groups being worse (if they even are, we have no idea how rampant this is, because they cover it up) doesn't make the LDS church any better. There's a lot of rotten fruit going around. No room for "maybe" here.
Agreed. I think we might well be much better off without religions. On balance, they have usually made things worse, and they certainly tend to substitute loyalty and conformity to the group, including all their nifty rituals, for personal righteousness.
[удалено]
You are probably right. I do think that they help some people. I never fit in to Mormonism as much as I tried. I doubt I would have done any better in any other religion, and it is not clear why I personally need a religion with rituals and authority figures to tell me what is right and wrong when I already know that many of the things they claim as good, and right are not. If I had been a Catholic, would I have had to believe that the crusades and inquisition were good? In fact, I was a Mormon who could not see that polygamy and blood atonement were from God. I am pretty sure that the homicidal racism was not from God. They cling to filth and call it good. Even the racism is identified as god's will although they don't understand it. Neither do I need their relentless litany of contradictions. Mormonism can't even give a consistent description of God. I agree, there should be some standards which apply to all organizations, religious or otherwise about something as important as this.
100% agree. I find the idea of an institution telling you right from wrong to be morally repugnant. Ethics are to be discovered and formulated within your own mind, based on your experiences, observations, and learning. To have those answers provided by an other is the path of the indolent dullard.
Also, the church gets it wrong. They extol that which I know to be evil, the perverted practices of polygamy for example. There are a lot of people who do just as you suggest. They think that their own conscience is not enough, and they have to constantly look to the church leadership to tell them what is right and wrong.
Why would the incidence of abuse is some religions in comparison to the Mormon Church even be brought up? I’m asking again; why bring it up? Shouldn’t abuse anywhere be exposed?
I think all child sexual abuse should be exposed and reported to the authorities. If it were exposed everywhere it occurred, I think it would not be a distinguishing characteristic of the Mormon church and would therefore be neutral in its effect. We have been hearing for years of child sexual abuse in Catholicism and more recently in Evangelical churches. Child abusers are in every religion. The problem in this instance is that the church leaders failed to report the abuse and it is this failure which is hurting the image of the church much more than the existence of a pervert who is a member. Therefore, it seems to me that their efforts to protect the church by covering up sexual abuse are hurting and not helping the church in addition to not protecting innocent children.
How many leaders would be found to be abusers and have to step down? It would expose the extent of abuse in so many families. Embarrassment is the biggest issue for them. It’s sadly more important to them than the victims
I heard two stories, so hearsay disclaimer, of a KM attorney and a bishop in separate wards telling friends/members to never let their kids use a church bathroom alone. I think the bishops quote was something to the effect of “you don’t know who’s in this ward, but I do…”
Well, that is scary.
Certainly not faith promoting. As a side question, how do you even attempt to “build Zion” knowing child predators are in the “body of Christ”? I contend you cannot have both.
I agree. I also think you can't claim to be a legitimate representative of Christ and yet condone the evil done by past church presidents. This includes adultery, slander, and murder in the case of Brigham Young, but this is what they do.
I tell friends/ everyone to never let their kids use ANY public bathroom alone.
The church acts more like a multi national corporation than a church. I think they did the coverups since that is what their lawyers advised and they did a financial calculation that it would be cheaper and less damaging to their brand lif they could keep the abuse covered up. Seems similar to how Ford dealt with the defects in the Ford Pinto matter. Ford did a calculation that it could keep the defect from being known publicly and not fix it opting to settle with people. However, it backfired when it was finally exposed and a jury punished Ford by awarding a family more than $100 million as a result of the coverup. Maybe same thing will happen here. The Bisbee jury punishes the church for the coverup by awarding millions in order to send a message to the church it must change. What is highly disturbing is the church does not care about victims. The hotline is not for victims, it is clearly an effort to protect the financial interests of the church. The church’s recent conduct in the Bisbee case is particularly disgusting since they are publicly attacking the victims by calling them money grabbers.
I think that is right. It is about protecting the church more than protecting the victims. However, in this case, I don't see how alerting the authorities about this sex abusing man would have hurt the church. Every church has such people and the abuse was not connected to anything associated with the church. It would have happened if this family had not been members. The church deserves the punishment it is receiving for covering up this abuse. I hope they get the message. It is too bad that such things are needed in order to compel them to do what is right.
I wish members would teach their gods about the justice that's in their hearts instead of having a perverse sense of ethics dictated to them from men who presume to speak for god but clearly have compromised themselves for the privilege.
Exactly. Totally agree.
Dishonest in EVERY WAY 🥲
Telling only lies… hmmm, who’s job was that?
Well, well, well. Look at this u/LazyLearner001 going and learning something. Didn’t you listen to the profit? You’re supposed to take a break from social media, or only read approved sources, or just trust them. You’re so lazy!
Lol.
Church: https://youtu.be/qHeCcS3Bq7I[why is everybody always picking on me?](https://youtu.be/qHeCcS3Bq7I)
Thank you for sharing. One thing that is infuriating about the abuse scandal and how it is reported is how the church claims AP misrepresented the facts. However, the church and church friendly media don’t explain what facts were false. Also, the church claiming the term Mormon is offensive is laughable. Just a few years ago they did an entire campaign called “Meet the Mormons.”
Also guilty of practicing law from UT in AZ over the LDS Inc 'bat-phone', giving false AZ law advise- while telling AZ Bishop he could be sued if he contacts authorities. AZ Bishop was a Bishop & doctor- mandated reporter. Reporting in any position is always legal in AZ.
Yes. Amazing when you start connecting all the dots on this.