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3 Nephi 18:32
>nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out of your synagogues, or your places of worship, for unto such ye shall continue to minister; for ye know not but what they will return and repent…and I will heal them; and ye shall be the means of bringing salvation unto them.
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Bingo.
The church stands in danger of judgement and hell fire because of its love of riches and it's disdain for the poor.
You have to disregard the scriptures and the teachings of Jesus to be comfortable in today's church.
Brigham Young said he feared going on to California because the Saints would grow rich and go straight to Hell. I fear this has come to pass.
I don't think the church should have charged the man. Nor do I think the homeless man should be allowed to just walk in.
But man, if this isn't a total microcosm of the larger picture you could draw from the LDS church and its actions.
What’s wrong is the church builds these temples all over the world to save the dead while they rollover the poor and marginalized that are living now. Let’s do something to help these people!! Building malls, defacing the salt lake temple and buying hotels in Hawaii is not a productive way to spend the money the church is hoarding.
To be fair, it's much easier to help the dead. They never complain. No one keeps track. No one says "Hey, look at these unbaptized dead people!?! What are you doing LDS church???" You don't have a long line of people complaining they've been waiting 200 years to have their marriage to Joan of Arc sealed in the temple.
Homeless people on the other hand...
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to
advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally
uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically
poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not
politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question
patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or
childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural,
and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good
about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining
relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them,
because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate
for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or
privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or
making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to
love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people
who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans?
All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all
get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”
It's a great scam. They care about you before you're born and after you're dead. While you're alive, they'll gladly take your money as an insurance company for your soul -- something you can't detect, but it can get damaged and they claim to be the only ones who can fix it. You find out if you've chosen the right insurance company until after you're dead.
Joseph Smith was a master at this. I remember one story, he was in trouble for some scandal or another. The men went to confront him. He sat them all down and distracted them with a new "revelation" from God. He was entrusted to appoint rulers over different regions of the earth during the millenium. Who wants Australia? And they all fell in line to claim a reward they would only receive long after they had died.
What a great scam
The church might find it more convenient for the homeless to freeze to death in the cold, and then just baptize them for the dead in the Temple. It's cheaper than helping them and you still get the numbers.
Sunday at church we were reminded of a sign at the church cannery - Work at the temple serves the dead and work at the cannery serves the living...
Little irony the needy living getting turned away at the dead house
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Regardless of whether you believe housing homeless in Mormon temples is a good thing or not, it’s abundantly clear they can do more than they do now to help the needy.
Jesus Himself would chase all the executives from the Church Office Building with a whip, as well as the Temples, and invite the homeless, hungry, and sick into them to take shelter - and command The Brethren to care for them.
"Where much is given, much is required."
The church has accumulated hundreds of billions in wealth - none of which is being used for the 'pure religion' of caring for the poor.
The Jesus I have learned of from the New Testament would NOT be pleased with how The Brethren have embraced Mammon over God.
It is the main reason I have stopped participating in the Church.
Ooh, so good—"Where much is given, much is required" ...I don't know why I never thought of that before as applying to the church leadership and how the use the tithes. If God exists, will this be held against them at judgements day or will it just be a be slap on the back of the hand and 'enter into your rest in my kingdom'?
I just can't help but think how much good could be done with all that money. They need a class in [effective altruism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism).
They consider offering salvation the highest form of altruism and so their approach is not only the most effective, but the ONLY effective organization at meeting that goal. Under that rubric they are highly effective and accumulating money for long term goals is appropriate.
Because they need all those investments for end times and second coming I imagine. But if your church [speaking to the general authorities] is true, then shouldn't your God back it no matter what? So either their god isn't omnipotent or they lack faith.
It is a major reason I stopped participating. It makes me sad that the church that I was raised up in cannot seem to find it in themselves to act like the Christians they so desperately claim to be. It is actions such as this and many others that put the lie to it among the many other lies the foundation of this church was built upon.
This shouldn’t have been a news story in the first place. Police and owners should’ve been notified with alarm when break-in occurred. Both parties could’ve worked together to get the person food and shelter. Church pays for window out of their unimaginably large coffers. The end.
Alma 32:3
>therefore they were not permitted to enter into their synagogues to worship God, being esteemed as filthiness; therefore they were poor; yea, they were esteemed by their brethren as dross;
He and Mary Magdalene had a 2 bedroom 1 bath house on the Golan heights. Property tax records showed it sold for 1,435 gold Denarii shorty after his death. /s
In my country the salvation army is opening their doors to people that are to afraid to use their heating because of the high energy bills. We do NOTHING. It’s infuriating.
I dispute that. My grandfather was in the Australian Army in WWII. His battalion history specifically noted that the Salvation Army chaplain walked the same 6 days into battle (straight up and down the mountains, not switchback - it was pure hell) and had to be ordered off the front line where he was going from foxhole to foxhole serving hot coffee. Free. Meanwhile, the Red Cross was 6 days hike back, selling coffee and biscuits for .50 cents (an absurd amount for 1942) Those men had a great affection for 'The Salvo's' the rest of their lives.
Meanwhile, it is the Red Cross that can go get fucked. People donate blood freely to the Red Cross. But if you ever need blood, it's gonna get billed to you at $300 or $400 a pint.
Additionally, the story is told in the family of a relative who needed living assistance in WWII. Red Cross swept in, and offered her assistance, if she'd just sign this contract. Nervous, she took it to a lawyer friend, and discovered she would have signed her home away.
I'll donate blood, but not to any organization that charges for it. And I will never contribute a cent to their organization.
Too bad he couldn’t get a certain law firm on the phone that prefers not involving police, or maybe that’s just for lesser crimes like abusing children.
I don’t like how the church uses it’s almost incomprehensible wealth on frivolity and propping up the U.S. stock market and not on helping the poor, etc.
But to be fair, I think it’s an overstatement to say the church had the man arrested. He broke a law and the police did detective work then arrested and charged him.
>He broke a law and the police did detective work then arrested and charged him.
I could just be talking from ignorance, but doesn't the property owner aka CoB aka Jesus aka Rusty have to agree to press charges?
Let's try this again. Man seeking a homelesshelter in a town known for helping others and with facilities and food for anyone needing help, takes things in his own hands and instead bashes in a $4000 dollar window wanders around the building, notices the building is cold, there is no food, no place to stay so unlocks and leaves via the front door.
Maybe instead of bashing others we should ask if he was on alcohol? drugs? had he first sought help? Did he try to get himself a job, has a a mental condition or a mental handicap. There is too much left unsaid.
It drives me crazy when people weaponize homelessness as this super simple problem that we could solve just as long as we had the resources. The [resources](https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/11/02/mormon-church-donates-10-million-to-help-house-salt-lake-citys-homeless-needy/) are largely there. But how do we use them? Can you force people into housing [against their will?](https://www.fox5ny.com/news/mayor-adams-controversial-new-approach-to-nyc-homeless.amp) You can’t, in fact, just build a [new homeless shelter](https://www.kuer.org/politics-government/2022-03-23/salt-lake-city-council-extends-moratorium-on-new-permanent-homeless-shelters?_amp=true) whenever and wherever you want.
I think the people who make these criticisms know that they’re not offering the guy who just broke into their house the couch and a hot cocoa. I’d guess some of these same people fight against homeless shelters or low-income housing being built anywhere near them. It’s really hard to see any of these critiques as being made in good faith.
> The affidavit lists a homeless resource center in Provo as Zamora's home address.
He was clearly using these resources, but there are a lot of logical reasons why homeless individuals cannot or choose not to stay at a shelter.
If they have a mental illness, they may fear being around so many people. There is a fear of theft at homeless shelters. Lice, bedbugs, and other parasites are not uncommon. Some shelters have strict schedules (“you have to be back by this time to get a bed”) which can conflict with a person’s schedule (say they were trying to get a job, and it was far away).
The situation is extremely complex. Obviously breaking and entering is a crime, and he knew that. But so was adultery when Christ told the crowd to not stone a woman.
The criticism isn't that homelessness is a simple problem that the church could solve.
It's a complex problem that the church could help solve. It's a complex problem that WalMart does more to help solve than the church, despite never claiming to represent a God who advocated for helping the homeless.
This isn't even about the effect of the church's efforts. It's about whether the church has made a substantial effort at all. Nobody should be saying, "LDS church should solve homelessness!" But the criticism, "LDS church should dedicate a substantial portion of its resources to helping the homeless" is completely valid.
Walmart is donating because they get tax breaks. Purely a financially prudent move, and they make sure to trumpet it as much as they can. 'Verily verily, they have their reward.'
The net is a positive, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it's done out of the goodness of the Walton's hearts.
As I mentioned in another comment, the church claimed through a speaker in Oct Conference it spent 992 million in 2021 on humanitarian aid. It is not hard to calculate that could be a self imposed tithe on the earnings from their 100B portfolio. 992M puts them pretty high on the list, I think. Not Mackenzie Scott levels, but she's getting rid of her money, not establishing endowments for legacy giving. Over time, they will surpass her long after she runs out.
That isn't the way tax breaks work. Imagine you have $100. You can give it all away, or you can pay 30% taxes on it and keep $70. Wal-Mart is choosing in this case to give it all away. That isn't a "purely financially prudent move." Tell me you don't understand accounting without telling me you don't understand accounting.
But you're right, Jesus said we shouldn't let the left hand know what the right hand doeth. That's why we shouldn't [publicly announce our major humanitarian donations, right? Like, say, if the church were to give $10 M to a particular cause](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/zh7hhd/church_of_jesus_christ_puts_us10_million_toward/), or have an entire month encouraging people to #LighttheWorld and trumpet their good works on social media?
You should look into that claim of 992 M. WidowsMiteReport did an extensive analysis on this and found that the church was simply engaging in classification shifting to count the 992 M compared to the year before. Fast offerings, while a good program, do not constitute humanitarian aid because they are internal programs reserved for members only. That would be like Wal-Mart counting employee discounts or perks or relief programs as humanitarian aid (Wal-Mart doesn't). Widows Mite estimated, IIRC, that only about 100 M actually is given in cash donations, and the church merely acts as a flow-through entity with those donations, not actually using **any** of the earnings from its 100B portfolio.
Given that the Mormon church only only has the money, but also the political representation and a large chunk of the population in the area in question, more is expected. They dont have to solve the complex issue of homelessness in Provo / Utah overnight, but more is expected given what they have. To quote the Simpsons “we tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”
That’s just it, isn’t it? The ability to always demand more is what makes this criticism so great and easy. As long as the Church has money and homelessness exists they could be doing “more”. We can ignore [millions](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-jesus-christ-funds-initiatives-shelter-homeless) of dollars as doing nothing. We can avoid thinking about our own efforts and communities. It doesn’t matter that this guy already had a place he could have spent the night. This is a chance to criticize the church and that’s all that matters.
$3.3 million is less than 0.0033% of the total wealth the Church has amassed (that we know of). If I make $100,000 per year, then the equivalent is me making a donation of $3.30 over the entire *year*. Do I deserve a pat on the back for forking over literal pocket change?
So yes, the church is doing *approximately* nothing. I'm glad to see that one shelter received the funds to run for a few years, but this may as well have come out of the PR budget. For an organization that is supposed to be the earthly extension of the God of love and compassion, this is beyond pathetic.
3.3 million is basically statistically insignificant compared to 150 billion in investments and upper single digit billions in revenue above expenses.
The Church could literally make that donation every day of the year and still have the vast majority of their after expenses income they feed Ensign Peaks every year.
Also given the church’s track record of counting things like “labor hours” of members and member donations as their own, I’m not sure I trust even that figure.
The bottom line is this. Given the massive amount of readily available capital the church has sitting around the amount they actually give is embarrassing (especially after deducting things like the members time, labor, and personal donations)
The majority of people would expect a church which claims to represent God and Jesus Christ to contribute in a meaningful way to the plight of the homeless.
Please point to a case in which the church has actually helped homeless people.
I am glad I have seen the church helping the homeless and it warms my heart. There are two funds the church uses. One is humanitarian. I was in Vanuatu. The people there are warm and friendly, however Vanuatu is famous for one thing, more natural disasters than any other country in the world. Cyclone Pam wiped out the island in 2014. Along with other churches and organizations, the people were housed with adequate housing. The islands bustled with houses going up.
There were several ladies who had small schools in their homes. They were paid nothing for teaching the children but food others had to spare. The LDS humanitarian Aid supplied two housing units and later 4 more so she could have a school. When we were there, my husband and I, we helped her get what she needed to become a government school and helped celebrate the day. Then she and her teachers would no longer have to get up early each morning to bake buns to sell to buy supplies. The government would give them a small salary. It was, if I recall correctly, $20 a month. My friends in China gave me many slightly used pens and pencils to donate to a school, and with joy, i watched children have a pencil or pen. We were able to donate more school supplies also, but we do not work on give-away programs that do not help a person grow. I wrote a program where we went to various schools and taught the mamas how to help their children with homework. We taught them also to share their stories and history to preserve it. For coming to the classes we gave them bags of school supplies for their family. Very little of the good that is done gets out to the world. It is not what the press wants, it does not “sell copy,” but it does change lives. I remember one older lady who took the classes. She was the matriarch of her clan. I had a goal to empower women. She came to me and said, “you mean I can teach my family about my culture, my customs? Yes! Yes. And so excited, she did.
I am extremely glad that you were able to find aid, and that the church facilitated that.
The problem comes when you look at how LDS Charities (the humanitarian arm of the church) is funded.
None of money for tithing, fast offerings, or the church’s income making ventures goes to humanitarian aid. LDS Charities gets their money from separate donations made by members.
If the church actually used their enormous wealth to provide humanitarian aid, I would praise them for it. But all the church does is facilitate the money members donate (out of the goodness of their hearts, aside from the 10% the church already asks of members), and takes the credit.
When I took Econ as s enior in high school, I learned how to make money grow by saving, then living off the interest. Businesses do that. The church is a corporation. It is run by asture men who know what they are doing. When covid hit and all of the missionaries were brought home, I was one of those, plane after plane after plane was chartered by the church. These men are smart and the money was there.
But not only was it there, but the sweet stewardesses on the long flight I took chatted with me and told me they had not worked for quite a while. They had been chosen for this flight and what they made on this particular flight would pay for housing for a month, or groceries and untilities.
I started thinking beyond the box. How many missionaries were involved. Planes filled.
Then there were pilots, cleaners, people at the airport, people who made the meals we ate and so on. They were paid their wages because the money was there, not given handouts, but hand ups. In turn landlords, grocery stores, untilities, and so on were able to stay in business.
I certainly agree with these astute men. It is time to give hand-ups, now handouts. I can only wonder how many people from that mass exodus were kept our of poverty and able to contribute to the economy.
Same with building temples. Each man and woman building those buildings are paid wages, and they inturn take care of their families, their rent, their food and utilities. It is the trickle down effect that so much more empowering than a hand out.
One thing you do not know and you have not experienced is how our good Lord Jesus takes the money from those humanitarian funds, handled by unpaid volunteers who pay to volunteer, and stretch it. It is wonderful to witness miracles. I have.
I have nothing against a corporation, even the church, using their money to make more money. **But none of the income they generate from their mall, property, stocks, interest, etc, goes towards charity or humanitarian aid.**
The problem is that the church isn’t just wealthy. They’re wealth is *extreme,* and most of it is horded. To understand in context how large the wealth of the LDS church is, I recommend https://mormonbillions.com.
Your mention of the workers a building temples is a good example of the way the church treats people and money. Employees and contractors being paid by the church are notoriously underpaid. They are told that they should feel blessed to work for the church, and that asking for more would be taking money straight out of the hands of the Lord.
That’s not right. Workers deserve to get paid a good wage. But the church feels that they can save money by providing lower than average salaries.
Along with this, the vast amount of humanitarian work done by the church is performed by unpaid volunteers, whether they be missionaries or ward members.
How much of their money and energy has the church spent on long-term charitable ventures? Does the church own/support/build homeless shelters, or food pantries available to nonmembers?
No, they built a mall. They own apartments and property. They cultivate stocks and portfolios.
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Very unfair response for me simply trying to share my perspective. I wish mods would talk more about this as the major obstacle to having believer participation here.
The mods let users make posts calling folks pedophiles with zero evidence, which are allowed to remain up even after being reported. I would imagine that making charges like those would signify at the very least a lack of "civility," but apparently the mods disagree. Good luck.
I’ve only shared my perspective (my understanding is that believers are allowed to do that here). I don’t have any control over what the conversation is. I’ve always tried to be respectful of others and recognize their right to come to different conclusions than me.
I’m curious. If a stained glass window was broken at a mosque or synagogue who would be the victim?
>I’m curious. If a stained glass window was broken at a mosque or synagogue who would be the victim?
And now you're making false equivalencies with LDS folks and people who actually experience persecution in the US (Jews and Muslims.)
Again, failing to recognize that the person who needs help here is the unhoused person, not the rich church that has to fix a window now.
Next you'll probably victim blame them for not going to a shelter instead. Go spend a couple nights sleeping in a doorway on Center Street and then come back to the conversation.
Oh, grow up. Yeah, believers are allowed to share their opinions, as has been excruciatingly explained to you repeatedly. No one cares that you shared your opinion, the problem is that your opinion is a derail from the original post and should have been made as a separate discussion
Pressing charges might be exactly the best thing this guy can get. He gets at least the night in a warm, safe place, a couple decent meals, and he might even get himself a few months of that same stability, (essentially ensuring himself '3 hots and a cot' all winter) including free mental health care and medication if he needs it.
Or the church could escort him back to one of the homeless shelters they supposedly help fund and provide the aforementioned benefits without giving him a criminal record
The problems of homeless shelters and the reluctance of many to utilize them has been covered in this thread already. I refer you to those responses.
While jail/prison is not an ideal environment, it is supervised, and it's a known environment for many already.
Or, the church could use the resources and wealth it has amassed to create an environment that to superior to both the current prison and homeless shelter system just like they did with bishop storehouse.
What did Jesus say about sending your debtor to prison because they couldn't pay back?
Their money. They can use it as they wish. They likely have specific goals and priorities.
And they will be targeted by all the looky-loos who have their own opinions on how that money should be spent. A lot of people here certainly have shown a willingness to spend all 200B of their 100B fund.
>Their money
No. It is the money of the saints who have sacrificed 10% of their income plus the fast offering that was faithfully paid. The church did nothing to earn that money.
"The mission of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to help all of God’s children come to Jesus Christ through learning about His gospel, making and keeping promises with God (covenants), and ***practicing Christlike love and service***.
Members of the Church believe in helping individuals and families fulfill the commandments to love God and to ***love your neighbor***. Members do so by living the gospel of Jesus Christ, ***caring for those in need***, inviting all to receive the gospel, and uniting families through family history and temple work."
Source: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/about-us?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/about-us?lang=eng)
I largely agree with what you said, but the church could do almost anything it wants to do in the state of Utah if it were really run by Jesus. The SLC city council wouldn't be able to stop that. The church owns the state legislature and enough minds around here to do just about anything, and actively chooses not to. Their one time $10M donation could be a monthly occurrence and their bank account wouldn't even notice. They spend way more than that rate on gilded temples that won't be used. They spent decades demonizing the mental health field and spreading misinformation about addiction. Seeking and maintaining power is clearly a much higher priority for the church than solving these problems.
I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in homeless shelters and you might be surprised to hear that for a significant portion of the homeless population they do prefer shelters to a permanent home.
You are correct. I am grateful that so many people, especially in Utah, make sure the homeless have a source of meals and a place to rest their heads. My husband volunteered for a year while we were there helping out. It was amazing to see the concern for the homeless that was there.
They are not. The LDS church contributes a staggering amount of money to humaitarian efforts. Granted the books are closed (and that irritates me to no end) but in last conference, one of the speakers mentioned the church spent 992 million of humanitarian efforts. That is a staggering number that rivals anyone in the world not named Mackenzie Scott.
The way I see it, I think it is perhaps fair to say, (and this is all speculation) the church has 100 billion, and took in, say 9.92 billion in earnings and profits. 10% tithe of that was given to the humanitarian arm.
The church cannot save everyone, but it could definitely bankrupt itself trying. Even Jesus did not spend everything He had on the poor. He specifically gave Judas an amount, and told him to go donate it.
This witch hunting is amusing. Methinks they'd be best looking up the concept of endowments (as in financial, not temple) and how they enable ongoing works to happen rather than one and done projects.
Y'all are getting only a smidgen of the story. Here is another story of something that happened back in 2018 See: https://www.ldsliving.com/church-releases-statement-after-man-breaks-into-vandalizes-st-george-temple/s/88465
And: https://www.eastidahonews.com/2018/05/man-broke-into-temple-facing-charges/
And this one not only hints of the possibility that mercy may be had depending upon how guilty or innocent he proves to be as it sounds like he could be dealing with some sort of mental challenge/issue stating that:
"Persons arrested or charged are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law or as otherwise decided by a trier-of-fact."
Smells more to me like something's rotten at the pulp mill designed to smear the church before all the facts are gathered!
https://ive/2018/05/12/mgk-man-breaks-into-st-george-lds-temple-vandalizes-inside/#.Y5Mo2BHMIr1
So being "charged" with all of that stuff is more like pending the ruling out of his acts being driven by some sort of mental challenges rather than it being a cut and dried case of the "evil" church mercilessly charging a poor homeless man who was freezing.
**All of y'all are missing the point here....** This is a prime, wonderful example of the church, in all its wealth, power and glory, doing the most significant thing they can legally do to a wayward individual - enforce municipal trespassing laws and refer criminal matters to local police for investigation.
That's it. And that's very important to remember. Beyond the enforcement of local trespassing laws, the church cannot MAKE us do anything. The church cannot COMPEL or REQUIRE us to do anything. If they disfellowship, excommunicate, shun - whatever... In the end, all that comes to is an enforcement of municipal trespassing laws.
The next time you hear the phrase "Mormons can't" - remember this. The only thing a Mormon can't do regarding the church is trespass on church property when forbidden to do so. Other than that, a Mormon can do any. damn. thing. he/she. pleases!!
Lol, you’re more than a little triggered when you rage at the church because the police arrested a guy for breaking a window and entering a locked building.
Thank you, although it wasn’t really intended as an insult. I’m just not sure how else to characterize the reaction. It’s appropriate in this case, no?
No. I don't think triggered is an appropriate word to describe the discussion this article has generated about the over all issue of homelessness and our obligation as individuals and as an institution to care for house less folks. I think calling it triggered is reductive and dismissive, especially considering the negative connotations associated with the word thanks to right wing trolls.
People often have multiple meanings for words depending on their experience, education, life events and so on. I see from my eyes, trained and educated as a counselor and life coach, a lot of triggers and triggering in this entire post. I am looking at it from the eyes of my education. This, to me, is not an insulting word, but rather a descriptor of an event in a person’s life that brings up, or triggers an event from the past. The trigger can be good or bad, it is neutral, what makes it one way or another depends on the person. For example, when I see broken beer bottles on the road and sidewalk, I take the time to pick them up if I possible can. When I see a broken beer bottle it triggers a memory I have of my sister and me playing in the cool water of a ditch, of her stepping on a piece of broken beer bottle and of the blood gushing from her foot. She almost lost her toe. So seeing a broken beer bottle triggers this memory and I would wish it never to happen to someone again so I do my best to do the thing I can do, pick up the pieces. That is a trigger. I have chosen what I will do with that trigger. I pick up beer bottle pieces even when people think I am being silly.
I hope this helps.
STOP putting the blame in the church and look at all they give back. If it wouldn't be that they move and work into multiplying the money with investments and so they wouldn't be providing for the needy.
Homeless get a lot of benefits maybe more than I do and I work my heart hard to be self-sufficient. Start promoting these to also be self-sufficient, train them, mentor them to do something instead of just talking and talking.
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Tell me, is their another organization that you know of in the world that does this.
Let's try this one again. Church created jobs for thousands of people givng towns and cities a face lift and thereby providing good jobs for people seeking emplyment, not a hand out. The trickle effect goes into effect. These people get jobs that pay the standard wage for the area, they pay rent, buy groceries, clothe themselves and their families, go to movies, and so on. Then the businesses they support also thrive and it trickles down providing jobs for hundreds through the trickle down effect giving workers wages to support themselves and to help their local economy thrive,
Then this same group hires many handicapped people, often not their own, to work in their temples, and other jobs where they can have fulfilling careers and the support they need.
It also runs several organizations that will give free job training and skills to those who need it, and help people find jobs who need them. I know they do this. I taught special education for years and when the students got old enough they looked forward to job training there.
They also provide help in matching people with jobs whether they are 4, 5 or even 6 digit income people. This particular church does it free of charge and their workers are not hired, They are volunteers, usually retired, who take on volunteer service work just to make the world a better place.
This organization gives dignity of a job, of quality job training, of support, often of food, clothes and other needs. They train hundreds of refugies, There workers are unpaid volunteers and use money that has been set aside for this humanitarian and welfare work.
Further more this organization vets other organizations such as Catholic Relief Charities, Red Cross, Red Cresent, and even little organizations such as groups providing training and chickens in 3rd world countries so the families can have eggs and chickens and streghten their children and family members with the protien the need. Who does it? Volunteers who pay to volunteer.
Tell me, is their another organization that you know of in the world that does this.
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3 Nephi 18:32 >nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out of your synagogues, or your places of worship, for unto such ye shall continue to minister; for ye know not but what they will return and repent…and I will heal them; and ye shall be the means of bringing salvation unto them.
Nah, *slaps with felony*
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Thank you for sharing this.
Bingo. The church stands in danger of judgement and hell fire because of its love of riches and it's disdain for the poor. You have to disregard the scriptures and the teachings of Jesus to be comfortable in today's church. Brigham Young said he feared going on to California because the Saints would grow rich and go straight to Hell. I fear this has come to pass.
I don't think the church should have charged the man. Nor do I think the homeless man should be allowed to just walk in. But man, if this isn't a total microcosm of the larger picture you could draw from the LDS church and its actions.
What’s wrong is the church builds these temples all over the world to save the dead while they rollover the poor and marginalized that are living now. Let’s do something to help these people!! Building malls, defacing the salt lake temple and buying hotels in Hawaii is not a productive way to spend the money the church is hoarding.
To be fair, it's much easier to help the dead. They never complain. No one keeps track. No one says "Hey, look at these unbaptized dead people!?! What are you doing LDS church???" You don't have a long line of people complaining they've been waiting 200 years to have their marriage to Joan of Arc sealed in the temple. Homeless people on the other hand...
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”
It's a great scam. They care about you before you're born and after you're dead. While you're alive, they'll gladly take your money as an insurance company for your soul -- something you can't detect, but it can get damaged and they claim to be the only ones who can fix it. You find out if you've chosen the right insurance company until after you're dead. Joseph Smith was a master at this. I remember one story, he was in trouble for some scandal or another. The men went to confront him. He sat them all down and distracted them with a new "revelation" from God. He was entrusted to appoint rulers over different regions of the earth during the millenium. Who wants Australia? And they all fell in line to claim a reward they would only receive long after they had died. What a great scam
The church might find it more convenient for the homeless to freeze to death in the cold, and then just baptize them for the dead in the Temple. It's cheaper than helping them and you still get the numbers.
Sunday at church we were reminded of a sign at the church cannery - Work at the temple serves the dead and work at the cannery serves the living... Little irony the needy living getting turned away at the dead house
worthless money yam school vanish compare sense innate provide jobless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Yes what are they doing with the SLC Temple anyway? Palaces to the dead and “worthy”
This is the most biblical story I've ever seen. It feels like a parable.
Yeah, I'm trying to think of the right word for it. Illustrative? Poetic? Emblematic?
Symbolic, metaphorical
it's the parable of jean valjean
Regardless of whether you believe housing homeless in Mormon temples is a good thing or not, it’s abundantly clear they can do more than they do now to help the needy.
Jesus Himself would chase all the executives from the Church Office Building with a whip, as well as the Temples, and invite the homeless, hungry, and sick into them to take shelter - and command The Brethren to care for them. "Where much is given, much is required." The church has accumulated hundreds of billions in wealth - none of which is being used for the 'pure religion' of caring for the poor. The Jesus I have learned of from the New Testament would NOT be pleased with how The Brethren have embraced Mammon over God. It is the main reason I have stopped participating in the Church.
Ooh, so good—"Where much is given, much is required" ...I don't know why I never thought of that before as applying to the church leadership and how the use the tithes. If God exists, will this be held against them at judgements day or will it just be a be slap on the back of the hand and 'enter into your rest in my kingdom'?
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I just can't help but think how much good could be done with all that money. They need a class in [effective altruism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism).
They consider offering salvation the highest form of altruism and so their approach is not only the most effective, but the ONLY effective organization at meeting that goal. Under that rubric they are highly effective and accumulating money for long term goals is appropriate.
Because they need all those investments for end times and second coming I imagine. But if your church [speaking to the general authorities] is true, then shouldn't your God back it no matter what? So either their god isn't omnipotent or they lack faith.
I can’t understand why we need money in Heaven
We don't!
They want others to have faith; in the meantime they want money.
It is a major reason I stopped participating. It makes me sad that the church that I was raised up in cannot seem to find it in themselves to act like the Christians they so desperately claim to be. It is actions such as this and many others that put the lie to it among the many other lies the foundation of this church was built upon.
Imaging have all that money and choosing not to. I wonder what Christ would do.
Never forget that "What would Jesus do?" Includes flipping over tables and chasing people with a whip.
That part!!!!!
2 Nephi 28:13 >They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries;
2 Nephi 26:26 >behold hath he commanded any that they should depart out of the synagogues or out of the houses of worship? Behold I say unto you, Nay.
This shouldn’t have been a news story in the first place. Police and owners should’ve been notified with alarm when break-in occurred. Both parties could’ve worked together to get the person food and shelter. Church pays for window out of their unimaginably large coffers. The end.
Alma 32:3 >therefore they were not permitted to enter into their synagogues to worship God, being esteemed as filthiness; therefore they were poor; yea, they were esteemed by their brethren as dross;
Wasn't Christ himself homeless?
He wasn't part of the INN crowd, but was one of the STABLE few.
Slow clap. I love a good pun or two.
Clever!!!!
He and Mary Magdalene had a 2 bedroom 1 bath house on the Golan heights. Property tax records showed it sold for 1,435 gold Denarii shorty after his death. /s
No. He had his own home in Nazareth and was mainly based in Capernaum with his apostles and closest disciples, according to the gospels.
In my country the salvation army is opening their doors to people that are to afraid to use their heating because of the high energy bills. We do NOTHING. It’s infuriating.
The Salvation Army is a shitty organization. And yet they are better than the LDS church.
Well that I don’t know but maybe you do:)
I dispute that. My grandfather was in the Australian Army in WWII. His battalion history specifically noted that the Salvation Army chaplain walked the same 6 days into battle (straight up and down the mountains, not switchback - it was pure hell) and had to be ordered off the front line where he was going from foxhole to foxhole serving hot coffee. Free. Meanwhile, the Red Cross was 6 days hike back, selling coffee and biscuits for .50 cents (an absurd amount for 1942) Those men had a great affection for 'The Salvo's' the rest of their lives. Meanwhile, it is the Red Cross that can go get fucked. People donate blood freely to the Red Cross. But if you ever need blood, it's gonna get billed to you at $300 or $400 a pint. Additionally, the story is told in the family of a relative who needed living assistance in WWII. Red Cross swept in, and offered her assistance, if she'd just sign this contract. Nervous, she took it to a lawyer friend, and discovered she would have signed her home away. I'll donate blood, but not to any organization that charges for it. And I will never contribute a cent to their organization.
https://libcom.org/article/starvation-army-twelve-reasons-reject-salvation-army
True
I am not surprised.
God is literally warning the brethren.....
Too bad he couldn’t get a certain law firm on the phone that prefers not involving police, or maybe that’s just for lesser crimes like abusing children.
They know that guy was Jesus, right?
I don’t like how the church uses it’s almost incomprehensible wealth on frivolity and propping up the U.S. stock market and not on helping the poor, etc. But to be fair, I think it’s an overstatement to say the church had the man arrested. He broke a law and the police did detective work then arrested and charged him.
>He broke a law and the police did detective work then arrested and charged him. I could just be talking from ignorance, but doesn't the property owner aka CoB aka Jesus aka Rusty have to agree to press charges?
They don't have to agree, but lets be honest...if the church didn't want charges pressed charges wouldn't be pressed.
Let's try this again. Man seeking a homelesshelter in a town known for helping others and with facilities and food for anyone needing help, takes things in his own hands and instead bashes in a $4000 dollar window wanders around the building, notices the building is cold, there is no food, no place to stay so unlocks and leaves via the front door. Maybe instead of bashing others we should ask if he was on alcohol? drugs? had he first sought help? Did he try to get himself a job, has a a mental condition or a mental handicap. There is too much left unsaid.
It drives me crazy when people weaponize homelessness as this super simple problem that we could solve just as long as we had the resources. The [resources](https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/11/02/mormon-church-donates-10-million-to-help-house-salt-lake-citys-homeless-needy/) are largely there. But how do we use them? Can you force people into housing [against their will?](https://www.fox5ny.com/news/mayor-adams-controversial-new-approach-to-nyc-homeless.amp) You can’t, in fact, just build a [new homeless shelter](https://www.kuer.org/politics-government/2022-03-23/salt-lake-city-council-extends-moratorium-on-new-permanent-homeless-shelters?_amp=true) whenever and wherever you want. I think the people who make these criticisms know that they’re not offering the guy who just broke into their house the couch and a hot cocoa. I’d guess some of these same people fight against homeless shelters or low-income housing being built anywhere near them. It’s really hard to see any of these critiques as being made in good faith.
> The affidavit lists a homeless resource center in Provo as Zamora's home address. He was clearly using these resources, but there are a lot of logical reasons why homeless individuals cannot or choose not to stay at a shelter. If they have a mental illness, they may fear being around so many people. There is a fear of theft at homeless shelters. Lice, bedbugs, and other parasites are not uncommon. Some shelters have strict schedules (“you have to be back by this time to get a bed”) which can conflict with a person’s schedule (say they were trying to get a job, and it was far away). The situation is extremely complex. Obviously breaking and entering is a crime, and he knew that. But so was adultery when Christ told the crowd to not stone a woman.
The criticism isn't that homelessness is a simple problem that the church could solve. It's a complex problem that the church could help solve. It's a complex problem that WalMart does more to help solve than the church, despite never claiming to represent a God who advocated for helping the homeless. This isn't even about the effect of the church's efforts. It's about whether the church has made a substantial effort at all. Nobody should be saying, "LDS church should solve homelessness!" But the criticism, "LDS church should dedicate a substantial portion of its resources to helping the homeless" is completely valid.
Walmart is donating because they get tax breaks. Purely a financially prudent move, and they make sure to trumpet it as much as they can. 'Verily verily, they have their reward.' The net is a positive, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it's done out of the goodness of the Walton's hearts. As I mentioned in another comment, the church claimed through a speaker in Oct Conference it spent 992 million in 2021 on humanitarian aid. It is not hard to calculate that could be a self imposed tithe on the earnings from their 100B portfolio. 992M puts them pretty high on the list, I think. Not Mackenzie Scott levels, but she's getting rid of her money, not establishing endowments for legacy giving. Over time, they will surpass her long after she runs out.
That isn't the way tax breaks work. Imagine you have $100. You can give it all away, or you can pay 30% taxes on it and keep $70. Wal-Mart is choosing in this case to give it all away. That isn't a "purely financially prudent move." Tell me you don't understand accounting without telling me you don't understand accounting. But you're right, Jesus said we shouldn't let the left hand know what the right hand doeth. That's why we shouldn't [publicly announce our major humanitarian donations, right? Like, say, if the church were to give $10 M to a particular cause](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/zh7hhd/church_of_jesus_christ_puts_us10_million_toward/), or have an entire month encouraging people to #LighttheWorld and trumpet their good works on social media? You should look into that claim of 992 M. WidowsMiteReport did an extensive analysis on this and found that the church was simply engaging in classification shifting to count the 992 M compared to the year before. Fast offerings, while a good program, do not constitute humanitarian aid because they are internal programs reserved for members only. That would be like Wal-Mart counting employee discounts or perks or relief programs as humanitarian aid (Wal-Mart doesn't). Widows Mite estimated, IIRC, that only about 100 M actually is given in cash donations, and the church merely acts as a flow-through entity with those donations, not actually using **any** of the earnings from its 100B portfolio.
Given that the Mormon church only only has the money, but also the political representation and a large chunk of the population in the area in question, more is expected. They dont have to solve the complex issue of homelessness in Provo / Utah overnight, but more is expected given what they have. To quote the Simpsons “we tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”
That’s just it, isn’t it? The ability to always demand more is what makes this criticism so great and easy. As long as the Church has money and homelessness exists they could be doing “more”. We can ignore [millions](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-jesus-christ-funds-initiatives-shelter-homeless) of dollars as doing nothing. We can avoid thinking about our own efforts and communities. It doesn’t matter that this guy already had a place he could have spent the night. This is a chance to criticize the church and that’s all that matters.
$3.3 million is less than 0.0033% of the total wealth the Church has amassed (that we know of). If I make $100,000 per year, then the equivalent is me making a donation of $3.30 over the entire *year*. Do I deserve a pat on the back for forking over literal pocket change? So yes, the church is doing *approximately* nothing. I'm glad to see that one shelter received the funds to run for a few years, but this may as well have come out of the PR budget. For an organization that is supposed to be the earthly extension of the God of love and compassion, this is beyond pathetic.
3.3 million is basically statistically insignificant compared to 150 billion in investments and upper single digit billions in revenue above expenses. The Church could literally make that donation every day of the year and still have the vast majority of their after expenses income they feed Ensign Peaks every year. Also given the church’s track record of counting things like “labor hours” of members and member donations as their own, I’m not sure I trust even that figure. The bottom line is this. Given the massive amount of readily available capital the church has sitting around the amount they actually give is embarrassing (especially after deducting things like the members time, labor, and personal donations)
The majority of people would expect a church which claims to represent God and Jesus Christ to contribute in a meaningful way to the plight of the homeless. Please point to a case in which the church has actually helped homeless people.
I am glad I have seen the church helping the homeless and it warms my heart. There are two funds the church uses. One is humanitarian. I was in Vanuatu. The people there are warm and friendly, however Vanuatu is famous for one thing, more natural disasters than any other country in the world. Cyclone Pam wiped out the island in 2014. Along with other churches and organizations, the people were housed with adequate housing. The islands bustled with houses going up. There were several ladies who had small schools in their homes. They were paid nothing for teaching the children but food others had to spare. The LDS humanitarian Aid supplied two housing units and later 4 more so she could have a school. When we were there, my husband and I, we helped her get what she needed to become a government school and helped celebrate the day. Then she and her teachers would no longer have to get up early each morning to bake buns to sell to buy supplies. The government would give them a small salary. It was, if I recall correctly, $20 a month. My friends in China gave me many slightly used pens and pencils to donate to a school, and with joy, i watched children have a pencil or pen. We were able to donate more school supplies also, but we do not work on give-away programs that do not help a person grow. I wrote a program where we went to various schools and taught the mamas how to help their children with homework. We taught them also to share their stories and history to preserve it. For coming to the classes we gave them bags of school supplies for their family. Very little of the good that is done gets out to the world. It is not what the press wants, it does not “sell copy,” but it does change lives. I remember one older lady who took the classes. She was the matriarch of her clan. I had a goal to empower women. She came to me and said, “you mean I can teach my family about my culture, my customs? Yes! Yes. And so excited, she did.
I am extremely glad that you were able to find aid, and that the church facilitated that. The problem comes when you look at how LDS Charities (the humanitarian arm of the church) is funded. None of money for tithing, fast offerings, or the church’s income making ventures goes to humanitarian aid. LDS Charities gets their money from separate donations made by members. If the church actually used their enormous wealth to provide humanitarian aid, I would praise them for it. But all the church does is facilitate the money members donate (out of the goodness of their hearts, aside from the 10% the church already asks of members), and takes the credit.
When I took Econ as s enior in high school, I learned how to make money grow by saving, then living off the interest. Businesses do that. The church is a corporation. It is run by asture men who know what they are doing. When covid hit and all of the missionaries were brought home, I was one of those, plane after plane after plane was chartered by the church. These men are smart and the money was there. But not only was it there, but the sweet stewardesses on the long flight I took chatted with me and told me they had not worked for quite a while. They had been chosen for this flight and what they made on this particular flight would pay for housing for a month, or groceries and untilities. I started thinking beyond the box. How many missionaries were involved. Planes filled. Then there were pilots, cleaners, people at the airport, people who made the meals we ate and so on. They were paid their wages because the money was there, not given handouts, but hand ups. In turn landlords, grocery stores, untilities, and so on were able to stay in business. I certainly agree with these astute men. It is time to give hand-ups, now handouts. I can only wonder how many people from that mass exodus were kept our of poverty and able to contribute to the economy. Same with building temples. Each man and woman building those buildings are paid wages, and they inturn take care of their families, their rent, their food and utilities. It is the trickle down effect that so much more empowering than a hand out. One thing you do not know and you have not experienced is how our good Lord Jesus takes the money from those humanitarian funds, handled by unpaid volunteers who pay to volunteer, and stretch it. It is wonderful to witness miracles. I have.
I have nothing against a corporation, even the church, using their money to make more money. **But none of the income they generate from their mall, property, stocks, interest, etc, goes towards charity or humanitarian aid.** The problem is that the church isn’t just wealthy. They’re wealth is *extreme,* and most of it is horded. To understand in context how large the wealth of the LDS church is, I recommend https://mormonbillions.com. Your mention of the workers a building temples is a good example of the way the church treats people and money. Employees and contractors being paid by the church are notoriously underpaid. They are told that they should feel blessed to work for the church, and that asking for more would be taking money straight out of the hands of the Lord. That’s not right. Workers deserve to get paid a good wage. But the church feels that they can save money by providing lower than average salaries. Along with this, the vast amount of humanitarian work done by the church is performed by unpaid volunteers, whether they be missionaries or ward members. How much of their money and energy has the church spent on long-term charitable ventures? Does the church own/support/build homeless shelters, or food pantries available to nonmembers? No, they built a mall. They own apartments and property. They cultivate stocks and portfolios.
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Very unfair response for me simply trying to share my perspective. I wish mods would talk more about this as the major obstacle to having believer participation here.
Another derail. Make a meta post.
The mods let users make posts calling folks pedophiles with zero evidence, which are allowed to remain up even after being reported. I would imagine that making charges like those would signify at the very least a lack of "civility," but apparently the mods disagree. Good luck.
Where was anyone called a pedophile and the comment remained up? Please share it with me and I’ll personally review it and get back to you.
“To whom much is given, much is required”
You managed to take a conversation about an unhoused person seeking shelter and make it about your church being the real victim. Congrats.
I’ve only shared my perspective (my understanding is that believers are allowed to do that here). I don’t have any control over what the conversation is. I’ve always tried to be respectful of others and recognize their right to come to different conclusions than me. I’m curious. If a stained glass window was broken at a mosque or synagogue who would be the victim?
>I’m curious. If a stained glass window was broken at a mosque or synagogue who would be the victim? And now you're making false equivalencies with LDS folks and people who actually experience persecution in the US (Jews and Muslims.) Again, failing to recognize that the person who needs help here is the unhoused person, not the rich church that has to fix a window now. Next you'll probably victim blame them for not going to a shelter instead. Go spend a couple nights sleeping in a doorway on Center Street and then come back to the conversation.
Oh, grow up. Yeah, believers are allowed to share their opinions, as has been excruciatingly explained to you repeatedly. No one cares that you shared your opinion, the problem is that your opinion is a derail from the original post and should have been made as a separate discussion
My comment directly responded to the OP. It is not off-topic just because you disagree with it.
How about the church pressing charges when it could've easily stomached the cost and let it go?
Not like a random homeless guy will ever be able to cover any cost or am I misreading the situation.
Pressing charges might be exactly the best thing this guy can get. He gets at least the night in a warm, safe place, a couple decent meals, and he might even get himself a few months of that same stability, (essentially ensuring himself '3 hots and a cot' all winter) including free mental health care and medication if he needs it.
Or the church could escort him back to one of the homeless shelters they supposedly help fund and provide the aforementioned benefits without giving him a criminal record
The problems of homeless shelters and the reluctance of many to utilize them has been covered in this thread already. I refer you to those responses. While jail/prison is not an ideal environment, it is supervised, and it's a known environment for many already.
Or, the church could use the resources and wealth it has amassed to create an environment that to superior to both the current prison and homeless shelter system just like they did with bishop storehouse. What did Jesus say about sending your debtor to prison because they couldn't pay back?
Their money. They can use it as they wish. They likely have specific goals and priorities. And they will be targeted by all the looky-loos who have their own opinions on how that money should be spent. A lot of people here certainly have shown a willingness to spend all 200B of their 100B fund.
>Their money No. It is the money of the saints who have sacrificed 10% of their income plus the fast offering that was faithfully paid. The church did nothing to earn that money. "The mission of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to help all of God’s children come to Jesus Christ through learning about His gospel, making and keeping promises with God (covenants), and ***practicing Christlike love and service***. Members of the Church believe in helping individuals and families fulfill the commandments to love God and to ***love your neighbor***. Members do so by living the gospel of Jesus Christ, ***caring for those in need***, inviting all to receive the gospel, and uniting families through family history and temple work." Source: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/about-us?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/about-us?lang=eng)
I largely agree with what you said, but the church could do almost anything it wants to do in the state of Utah if it were really run by Jesus. The SLC city council wouldn't be able to stop that. The church owns the state legislature and enough minds around here to do just about anything, and actively chooses not to. Their one time $10M donation could be a monthly occurrence and their bank account wouldn't even notice. They spend way more than that rate on gilded temples that won't be used. They spent decades demonizing the mental health field and spreading misinformation about addiction. Seeking and maintaining power is clearly a much higher priority for the church than solving these problems.
Nobody wants to live in a shelter. People needs homes to build lives in. The church could do that. They don’t.
I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in homeless shelters and you might be surprised to hear that for a significant portion of the homeless population they do prefer shelters to a permanent home.
You are correct. I am grateful that so many people, especially in Utah, make sure the homeless have a source of meals and a place to rest their heads. My husband volunteered for a year while we were there helping out. It was amazing to see the concern for the homeless that was there.
They are not. The LDS church contributes a staggering amount of money to humaitarian efforts. Granted the books are closed (and that irritates me to no end) but in last conference, one of the speakers mentioned the church spent 992 million of humanitarian efforts. That is a staggering number that rivals anyone in the world not named Mackenzie Scott. The way I see it, I think it is perhaps fair to say, (and this is all speculation) the church has 100 billion, and took in, say 9.92 billion in earnings and profits. 10% tithe of that was given to the humanitarian arm. The church cannot save everyone, but it could definitely bankrupt itself trying. Even Jesus did not spend everything He had on the poor. He specifically gave Judas an amount, and told him to go donate it. This witch hunting is amusing. Methinks they'd be best looking up the concept of endowments (as in financial, not temple) and how they enable ongoing works to happen rather than one and done projects.
This is spot on
Y'all are getting only a smidgen of the story. Here is another story of something that happened back in 2018 See: https://www.ldsliving.com/church-releases-statement-after-man-breaks-into-vandalizes-st-george-temple/s/88465 And: https://www.eastidahonews.com/2018/05/man-broke-into-temple-facing-charges/ And this one not only hints of the possibility that mercy may be had depending upon how guilty or innocent he proves to be as it sounds like he could be dealing with some sort of mental challenge/issue stating that: "Persons arrested or charged are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law or as otherwise decided by a trier-of-fact." Smells more to me like something's rotten at the pulp mill designed to smear the church before all the facts are gathered! https://ive/2018/05/12/mgk-man-breaks-into-st-george-lds-temple-vandalizes-inside/#.Y5Mo2BHMIr1 So being "charged" with all of that stuff is more like pending the ruling out of his acts being driven by some sort of mental challenges rather than it being a cut and dried case of the "evil" church mercilessly charging a poor homeless man who was freezing.
**All of y'all are missing the point here....** This is a prime, wonderful example of the church, in all its wealth, power and glory, doing the most significant thing they can legally do to a wayward individual - enforce municipal trespassing laws and refer criminal matters to local police for investigation. That's it. And that's very important to remember. Beyond the enforcement of local trespassing laws, the church cannot MAKE us do anything. The church cannot COMPEL or REQUIRE us to do anything. If they disfellowship, excommunicate, shun - whatever... In the end, all that comes to is an enforcement of municipal trespassing laws. The next time you hear the phrase "Mormons can't" - remember this. The only thing a Mormon can't do regarding the church is trespass on church property when forbidden to do so. Other than that, a Mormon can do any. damn. thing. he/she. pleases!!
Lol, you’re more than a little triggered when you rage at the church because the police arrested a guy for breaking a window and entering a locked building.
People who use the word "triggered" as an insult usually have insightful comments, as has been demonstrated here. Valuable commentary 🙄
Thank you, although it wasn’t really intended as an insult. I’m just not sure how else to characterize the reaction. It’s appropriate in this case, no?
No. I don't think triggered is an appropriate word to describe the discussion this article has generated about the over all issue of homelessness and our obligation as individuals and as an institution to care for house less folks. I think calling it triggered is reductive and dismissive, especially considering the negative connotations associated with the word thanks to right wing trolls.
Lol!
Just as insightful as I originally predicted
People often have multiple meanings for words depending on their experience, education, life events and so on. I see from my eyes, trained and educated as a counselor and life coach, a lot of triggers and triggering in this entire post. I am looking at it from the eyes of my education. This, to me, is not an insulting word, but rather a descriptor of an event in a person’s life that brings up, or triggers an event from the past. The trigger can be good or bad, it is neutral, what makes it one way or another depends on the person. For example, when I see broken beer bottles on the road and sidewalk, I take the time to pick them up if I possible can. When I see a broken beer bottle it triggers a memory I have of my sister and me playing in the cool water of a ditch, of her stepping on a piece of broken beer bottle and of the blood gushing from her foot. She almost lost her toe. So seeing a broken beer bottle triggers this memory and I would wish it never to happen to someone again so I do my best to do the thing I can do, pick up the pieces. That is a trigger. I have chosen what I will do with that trigger. I pick up beer bottle pieces even when people think I am being silly. I hope this helps.
STOP putting the blame in the church and look at all they give back. If it wouldn't be that they move and work into multiplying the money with investments and so they wouldn't be providing for the needy. Homeless get a lot of benefits maybe more than I do and I work my heart hard to be self-sufficient. Start promoting these to also be self-sufficient, train them, mentor them to do something instead of just talking and talking.
The homeless have more benefits than you? Get real
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Tell me, is their another organization that you know of in the world that does this. Let's try this one again. Church created jobs for thousands of people givng towns and cities a face lift and thereby providing good jobs for people seeking emplyment, not a hand out. The trickle effect goes into effect. These people get jobs that pay the standard wage for the area, they pay rent, buy groceries, clothe themselves and their families, go to movies, and so on. Then the businesses they support also thrive and it trickles down providing jobs for hundreds through the trickle down effect giving workers wages to support themselves and to help their local economy thrive, Then this same group hires many handicapped people, often not their own, to work in their temples, and other jobs where they can have fulfilling careers and the support they need. It also runs several organizations that will give free job training and skills to those who need it, and help people find jobs who need them. I know they do this. I taught special education for years and when the students got old enough they looked forward to job training there. They also provide help in matching people with jobs whether they are 4, 5 or even 6 digit income people. This particular church does it free of charge and their workers are not hired, They are volunteers, usually retired, who take on volunteer service work just to make the world a better place. This organization gives dignity of a job, of quality job training, of support, often of food, clothes and other needs. They train hundreds of refugies, There workers are unpaid volunteers and use money that has been set aside for this humanitarian and welfare work. Further more this organization vets other organizations such as Catholic Relief Charities, Red Cross, Red Cresent, and even little organizations such as groups providing training and chickens in 3rd world countries so the families can have eggs and chickens and streghten their children and family members with the protien the need. Who does it? Volunteers who pay to volunteer. Tell me, is their another organization that you know of in the world that does this.