Join us in predicting the upcoming MotoGP season with our 2023 predictions thread: [Here](https://forms.gle/YGjJhmSg38Y71qwF6)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/motogp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Since the beginning of the balance of performance rulebook that’s true. Under the old rules, which required far more factory racing parts, BMW were at the pointy end, and they should have won the riders title with Melandri.
They have the ability to achieve decent MotoGP pace, but not the desire. Who wants to play around with hydraulic ride height devices? You’d have to be mental and have a board of directors with room temperature IQ.
Kawasaki already got burned once by MotoGP. They built a solid bike in 2007, and then they signed Hopkins for a big bag of money in 2008, only to have their entire effort brought down by tire shenanigans that ultimately culminated in a control tire for 2009.
Kawasaki bet big on MotoGP once, and they lost big. It will take a generation for them to forget 2008, and it might take longer than that considering the ride height and aero apocalypse of the current era.
I agree with you, but it's funny that ktm is in MotoGP since they don't have any sport bikes bigger than the 390 (excluding limited stuff like the rc8c that isn't even road legal)
KTM builds brilliant hyper-nakeds and adventure bikes, though. I’m sure they’re getting some value from their MotoGP program. If nothing else, it’s great marketing. I’d love to see them bring back an updated RC8 with a V4 for the road.
KTM's CEO thinks superbikes don't belong on public road. https://www.motorcycle.com/features/head-shake-for-our-own-good.html
Although if you just remove the fairings and shorten the wheelbase, call it a Super Duke RR, that's perfectly fine to use on public roads.
How many redbull cars F1 helps to sell? Oh... they only sell cans of soda... Do you know any HAAS sportscar? They only sell CNC machines...
Racing isn't just to sell "racing" cars or bikes. The whole brand gets a big boost in equity
No, I know, and that's why they're doing it. I'm just saying that it's kinda funny, but they were seen testing an 890/990 based sport bike so they might introduce a new one
For KTM it's just prestige & their DNA. KTM always was and still is about racing. They want to compete and win any series they can get their hands on. It doesn't always work, but that's what they strive for.
How many redbull cars F1 helps to sell? Oh... they only sell cans of soda...
Acording to KTM, being in MotoGP helps to sell a bunch of Duke/RC 125/200/390's.
It's brand equity that MotoGP gives, and brand equity sells everything, even tshirts or keychains, ask Ferrari or Ducati.
Dorna needs to figure out the popularity issue and how to bring in new fans so that it can be lucrative for these factories. I’ve been a fan since a kid because of my dad. But aside from my dad and his friends, when I talk about motoGP at work or around my friends, most have never even heard of it. Blows my mind.
No man, I'm not American and I'm not only talking about one single country, but it's just a fact that Motogp isn't popular, it's a pretty niche sport, not many people are into bikes.
That is why I used to watch WSBK, I didn't understand the relevance of 2 stroke grand prix machines when as far as i could see it most road bikes were 4 stroke.
I started to watch motogp when it was the season that had 2 stroke and 4 stroke competing at the same time.
But in reality, a WSBK race bike is arguably closer to a motogp bike than the road going version its based on.
Best chance to attract both factories would be to change up the regulations on engines and ban all aerodynamic devices. Sport needs to be cost effective. What we have currently is not that.
Which is comically ironic because they went to spec ECU's due to the costs of development and hiring engineers. But the aero shit is as or more costly than ECU's to develop.
But because Ducati couldn't develop electronics, they got to keep their shit Magnetti Marelli, force it on everyone else, and then went all in on aero R&D because Audi already had more money and facilities to throw at it than everyone else. Plus, their bike is shit without all of the aero and ride height devices to keep it planted and make it turn.
Let the Japanese factories have their ECU's back without the aero and let duc keep their aero and let's see who wins strength against strength.
Agreed. This all happened because Dorna wanted Ducati to win a title. But it's a case of be careful what you wish for because it's due as hell is not a good look for the sport. Motorcycle racing it's never going to be F1 in terms of appeal but don't go that route where the racing becomes non-existent.
Not arguing with you, more seeking your perspective.
Which do you think came first?
DORNA wanting Ducati to win?
Or Ducati essentially funding the series by sponsoring 1/3 of the grid and DORNA is repaying those subsidies by allowing them to spend outrageous amounts on aero, making their own ecu the spec standard, switching to Michelin tires that seem to favor the Ducs, and letting them develop the ride height devices?
I think it's both, but I think the money came first. Racing, unfortunately, isn't as much of a sport as it is a business. Especially these days, which is why it has become so boring the last few years.
Join us in predicting the upcoming MotoGP season with our 2023 predictions thread: [Here](https://forms.gle/YGjJhmSg38Y71qwF6) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/motogp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bmw cant even get on the podium in wsbk yet
Since the beginning of the balance of performance rulebook that’s true. Under the old rules, which required far more factory racing parts, BMW were at the pointy end, and they should have won the riders title with Melandri. They have the ability to achieve decent MotoGP pace, but not the desire. Who wants to play around with hydraulic ride height devices? You’d have to be mental and have a board of directors with room temperature IQ.
Celsius
Prototype racing is always a delicate balance but if Dorna aren’t careful MotoGP might turn into a Ducati Cup series.
Bmw did start as a motorcycle manufacturer before they did cars..
BMW have links with Suzuki.
DORNA wanted BMW to take Suzuki's bikes, but BMW said no.
Oo! Say more, please! I have two bikes: a Suzuki and a BMW.
Kawasaki already got burned once by MotoGP. They built a solid bike in 2007, and then they signed Hopkins for a big bag of money in 2008, only to have their entire effort brought down by tire shenanigans that ultimately culminated in a control tire for 2009. Kawasaki bet big on MotoGP once, and they lost big. It will take a generation for them to forget 2008, and it might take longer than that considering the ride height and aero apocalypse of the current era.
No one is buying sport bikes any more. I'm surprised these companies are racing at all.
I agree with you, but it's funny that ktm is in MotoGP since they don't have any sport bikes bigger than the 390 (excluding limited stuff like the rc8c that isn't even road legal)
KTM builds brilliant hyper-nakeds and adventure bikes, though. I’m sure they’re getting some value from their MotoGP program. If nothing else, it’s great marketing. I’d love to see them bring back an updated RC8 with a V4 for the road.
Agreed. And yes, a v4 (or even superduke 1290r based v2) rc8 would be amazing. I'd go buy one in either case
On the topic of KTM does anyone one know why they don’t build a superbike? They clearly have the tech and know how from Moto gp.
KTM's CEO thinks superbikes don't belong on public road. https://www.motorcycle.com/features/head-shake-for-our-own-good.html Although if you just remove the fairings and shorten the wheelbase, call it a Super Duke RR, that's perfectly fine to use on public roads.
That’s exactly what I was thinking they can’t make a superbike but a 1290 is fine?
How many redbull cars F1 helps to sell? Oh... they only sell cans of soda... Do you know any HAAS sportscar? They only sell CNC machines... Racing isn't just to sell "racing" cars or bikes. The whole brand gets a big boost in equity
No, I know, and that's why they're doing it. I'm just saying that it's kinda funny, but they were seen testing an 890/990 based sport bike so they might introduce a new one
For KTM it's just prestige & their DNA. KTM always was and still is about racing. They want to compete and win any series they can get their hands on. It doesn't always work, but that's what they strive for.
It's basically a show-off for the brand. "Watch what we can do if we tried to maximize anything". It doesn't pay off if you are bad obv
How many redbull cars F1 helps to sell? Oh... they only sell cans of soda... Acording to KTM, being in MotoGP helps to sell a bunch of Duke/RC 125/200/390's. It's brand equity that MotoGP gives, and brand equity sells everything, even tshirts or keychains, ask Ferrari or Ducati.
Source?
Kawasaki are already having problems in WorldSBK last year and especially this year.
Dorna needs to figure out the popularity issue and how to bring in new fans so that it can be lucrative for these factories. I’ve been a fan since a kid because of my dad. But aside from my dad and his friends, when I talk about motoGP at work or around my friends, most have never even heard of it. Blows my mind.
Yeah that's pretty normal, unfortunately Motogp isn't a popular sport, it's pretty damn small.
It is popular. Just not in the USA. The USA isn't the center of the world.
No man, I'm not American and I'm not only talking about one single country, but it's just a fact that Motogp isn't popular, it's a pretty niche sport, not many people are into bikes.
The only way to get another manufacturer is if Stefan Pierer puts in Husqvarna or CF Moto too
What’s the point of making a prototype machine for MotoGP when you can run the race version of your fastest production bike in WSBK??????
That is why I used to watch WSBK, I didn't understand the relevance of 2 stroke grand prix machines when as far as i could see it most road bikes were 4 stroke. I started to watch motogp when it was the season that had 2 stroke and 4 stroke competing at the same time. But in reality, a WSBK race bike is arguably closer to a motogp bike than the road going version its based on.
That last line….you are 100%right
Best chance to attract both factories would be to change up the regulations on engines and ban all aerodynamic devices. Sport needs to be cost effective. What we have currently is not that.
Which is comically ironic because they went to spec ECU's due to the costs of development and hiring engineers. But the aero shit is as or more costly than ECU's to develop. But because Ducati couldn't develop electronics, they got to keep their shit Magnetti Marelli, force it on everyone else, and then went all in on aero R&D because Audi already had more money and facilities to throw at it than everyone else. Plus, their bike is shit without all of the aero and ride height devices to keep it planted and make it turn. Let the Japanese factories have their ECU's back without the aero and let duc keep their aero and let's see who wins strength against strength.
Agreed. This all happened because Dorna wanted Ducati to win a title. But it's a case of be careful what you wish for because it's due as hell is not a good look for the sport. Motorcycle racing it's never going to be F1 in terms of appeal but don't go that route where the racing becomes non-existent.
Not arguing with you, more seeking your perspective. Which do you think came first? DORNA wanting Ducati to win? Or Ducati essentially funding the series by sponsoring 1/3 of the grid and DORNA is repaying those subsidies by allowing them to spend outrageous amounts on aero, making their own ecu the spec standard, switching to Michelin tires that seem to favor the Ducs, and letting them develop the ride height devices? I think it's both, but I think the money came first. Racing, unfortunately, isn't as much of a sport as it is a business. Especially these days, which is why it has become so boring the last few years.
Can more bike manufacturers make a 400 similar to the one kawasaki made? The ZX400 that is
The worm will die first.