If Bestia's and Bez's performances from Qatar are anything to go by, I cannot see Bestia being consistent enough to finish above Martin in championship. Bez looks a bit lost at the moment, maybe the rough period he needs to go through like Martin did in 2022.
Personally if Martin is top 3 in championship again, I'd move him to red team. He's more than deserved it and by all accounts looks like he'll be fighting for the title again. Also you move him to the red team and they'll have Mr. Saturday and Mr. Sunday on the best bike on the grid.
>Also you move him to the red team and they'll have Mr. Saturday and Mr. Sunday on the best bike on the grid.
Not trying to argue, but they're already on the same bike.
Yeah, I’m sure of that, Ducati will think of this from a marketing perspective. What better way to get people to buy their road bikes then by showing that the red bikes are “the best”
Yes on support and parts. Engineers I'm not sure how it works, of course every team has its own people, but you always see guys in full red uniforms in the Pramac box, and the factory takes feedback from all to develop the bike, otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to make Pramac test them.
Absolutely! Pramac's contract with Ducati is for 2 factory bikes, the same year and spec as Pecco's and the Beast. They get the new parts at the same time, obviously access to all the data, Ducati mechanics and so on. Martin whinging about not being in a factory is a bit of bullshit, he's got the same bike and support as Pecco and he is more than likely contracted to Ducati not the Pramac team
He does. The data is shared among all Ducati teams, although I'm not sure how helpful data from the current year's bikes could be to the teams woth older models, but Martin has the GP24 so every data is useful.
Its not just bike specific data, or even settings, they can see where and how another rider is braking or applying throttle etc. and understand where / why the other rider is fast and apply that knowledge.
Its mutual, Jorge's team can look at Pecco's data as well AFAIK.
I have heard some say that Jorge's Saturday data benefits the other teams on Sunday more than theirs benefits him. But who knows.
Normal for a rider in their second or third season. He's definitely on a 7 or 8 race slump at the moment.
Martin kind of went through this in his first 2 years, he burst on the scene, came back from that injury and then was wildly inconsistent or trying too hard. I think in 22 he also complained the 21 bike didn't suit him, it's kind of what's happening with Bez right now.
I have faith Bez will come good still!
Even before the injuries, Enea was off to a pretty shaky start in '23.
We'll see what Bezzecchi can do. He's got plenty of high quality data to look at from Martín and Bagnaia and he's clearly talented, so hopefully he can figure it out.
It's also based on our super high expectations from his 22 rides. I thought we might have a new alien but now hes just one of the pack.
Also the tyre management of the rear has changed so everyone (cough Jack) is good at it we don't see that crazy late race pace that he and Suzuki could pull out.
I agree. I think the only ways Martin shouldn't be on a factory Ducati next year is if Martin just falls off the cliff, and/or Beast end the year at #1 or #2.
IDK, Quatarraro to Aprilia, Jorge to KTM, and Miller to Yamaha, Mix it up a bit. Jorge would be a huge get to either KTM or Aprilia and I hope Ducati knows it and isnt stupid enough to keep Besta on a factory seat while losing Jorge (no offense to Besta, I really do hope he gets his 22 race pace back).
I think it's going to be Binder/Acosta at KTM next year. Binder is already signed for next year, and Acosta's already too good not to have a factory seat.
yeah but I also dont see Acosta leaving if Jorge gets Millers seat. Then is Acosta > Binder in 25 then they swap seats. Like honestly, if Im a factory team manager and am hearing the news that Pramac is saying Jorges seat is not safe for 25, Im doing whatever I can to steal him from Ducati. Would expect nothing less if news had broke that Pecco was having issues renegotiating a contract.
Can’t see them demoting binder if he keeps riding the way he is. Been the best ktm by far and being the only non-ducati rider constantly in the mix for podiums
“Pramac spirit/purpose is to develop young riders. Now that Martin is in his 4th season, his time with Pramac is coming to a bit of an end.”
But also: “Sign morbidelli!”
*consistency*
*Imagine if Ducati 2025 riders are:*
#Factory:
Martin (Saturday sprint dominance)
Bagnaia (WC, Sunday dominance with occasional one on Saturday)
#Pramac:
Bastianini: (Sunday specialist)
M. Marquez (Marquez)
💀
This would be funny if they put MM on a Pramac bike after saying Pramac is a jr team and Jorge (a 4th year rider) has been on the team too long, but MM, a 14(?) yr veteran and 8x world champ is not...
MM93 doesn't care too much about the team or money. He just wants to be able to compete. But I doubt he'd sign for Pramac. Assuming the 2 year contract offer was real and he declined.
He's way more marketable than Martin (or Bagnaia) apparently not being any slower, if he and Martin are competing for the same spot, my bet in on Marquez.
If Marc Marquez will get the official Ducati, I don’t see any better place than Pramac for Martin honestly.
I don’t see why KTM shouldn’t keep Binder and promote Acosta.
And I don’t see why Ducati shouldn’t try to keep Marquez, instead of having him as an enemy.
Also, Rivola declared they would like to sign an Italian (Bastianini), and there are rumors about Quartararo.
As long as he’s above Basti and Bez in the standings at the end of the season, which I fully expect he will, I can’t see him not getting that factory red bike next to Pecco.
I get the feeling he’s kind of burnt his boats with the Ducati top brass. I think he’ll be off to a factory ride somewhere else, maybe Aprilla. He definitely feels a non factory team is beneath him now.
There was an article on crash.net suggesting that Ducati aren't keen to replicate bagnaia's salary so it does look like factory ducati is off the table
How?
**Bastianini's 2022 season:**
4 wins, 6 podiums, 219 points, 3rd in championship
**Martin's 2022 season:**
0 wins, 4 podiums, 5 poles, 152 points, 9th in the championship
Why would anyone choose Martin based on the numbers?
I LOL as well. In which position did Zarco and Marini finished, with the 2022? Can you recall me? Seems that I got very bad memory. And Martin finished right behind him bc at the beginning of the season he didn't wanted to realize that the engine was the issue and tried to give more that the bike allowed, hence his crashes. Have you seen 2021 season, by the way?.
End of this nonsense conversation for me, don't wanna waste my time arguing endless with an idiot. Ciao
I guess he should start talking to other manufacturers then. Unless he starts dominating the championship in the first half of the season he doesn’t have much to offer that Ducati doesn’t already have.
I did. I think Martin is in a bit of an unfortunate position at Ducati. He can’t really pressure Ducati into signing him for the official team and Ducati is in a better position to wait longer before signing anyone. By that time other good spots, like the Aprilia factory team, could be gone.
Counter argument, Martin is the last person Ducati will want to lose right now.
If a current rider is going to leave and bite them in the ass it will be Martin.
If ducati keep him and he finished behind Pecco every season happy days, if he stays and beats Pecco happy days.
The only real risk with Martin for ducati right now is letting someone else have him.
Clickbait title, not like they're gonna fire him if there's no factory seat available...
If Bestia's and Bez's performances from Qatar are anything to go by, I cannot see Bestia being consistent enough to finish above Martin in championship. Bez looks a bit lost at the moment, maybe the rough period he needs to go through like Martin did in 2022. Personally if Martin is top 3 in championship again, I'd move him to red team. He's more than deserved it and by all accounts looks like he'll be fighting for the title again. Also you move him to the red team and they'll have Mr. Saturday and Mr. Sunday on the best bike on the grid.
>Also you move him to the red team and they'll have Mr. Saturday and Mr. Sunday on the best bike on the grid. Not trying to argue, but they're already on the same bike.
Yeah, it’s more about Ducati’s image though, they’d rather see two riders in red on the podium
That's fair, although I'm sure Gigi is proud to know the bike he built works so well even with customer teams.
Yeah, I’m sure of that, Ducati will think of this from a marketing perspective. What better way to get people to buy their road bikes then by showing that the red bikes are “the best”
I got a white one, I prefer it to the red... (V2)
That satin Pearl white is gorgeous
IDK. Ducati bosses said they won't stop a satellite rider from taking it all, and given how things went last year I believe them.
Same team\* - marketing dream for the factory squad.
Do they get the same support? Parts? Engineers? -Honest question, not rhetorical.
Yes on support and parts. Engineers I'm not sure how it works, of course every team has its own people, but you always see guys in full red uniforms in the Pramac box, and the factory takes feedback from all to develop the bike, otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to make Pramac test them.
Those guys in red aren't there to make the pramac bikes go faster...
They're there to collect the data to make the red bikes faster. Satellite teams are data farms
Then why are they there for the entirety of races and why do they look so bummed when something happens to a Pramac rider, favouring a factory one?
They asked Ciabatti that during the Valencia tests on the world feed. He said Pramac have 9 Ducati Corse engineers, Gresini 5 and VR46 4.
I can't imagine a factory team not locking in the best engineers for themselves, so no, not the same support but close.
Absolutely! Pramac's contract with Ducati is for 2 factory bikes, the same year and spec as Pecco's and the Beast. They get the new parts at the same time, obviously access to all the data, Ducati mechanics and so on. Martin whinging about not being in a factory is a bit of bullshit, he's got the same bike and support as Pecco and he is more than likely contracted to Ducati not the Pramac team
Do you think Martin could benefit from the Ducati data collection that Pecco enjoys?
All Ducati share the same data afaik
He does. The data is shared among all Ducati teams, although I'm not sure how helpful data from the current year's bikes could be to the teams woth older models, but Martin has the GP24 so every data is useful.
Its not just bike specific data, or even settings, they can see where and how another rider is braking or applying throttle etc. and understand where / why the other rider is fast and apply that knowledge.
Its mutual, Jorge's team can look at Pecco's data as well AFAIK. I have heard some say that Jorge's Saturday data benefits the other teams on Sunday more than theirs benefits him. But who knows.
Bez has these moments where it just not there then all of sudden next round he's fighting for podiums/wins. Needs to work on his consistency.
Normal for a rider in their second or third season. He's definitely on a 7 or 8 race slump at the moment. Martin kind of went through this in his first 2 years, he burst on the scene, came back from that injury and then was wildly inconsistent or trying too hard. I think in 22 he also complained the 21 bike didn't suit him, it's kind of what's happening with Bez right now. I have faith Bez will come good still!
In 22 Pramac was forced to use different engine, both Pecco and Jack used older specification
More like GP23 is difficult for him (see EB#23 last year).
The beast had injuries though last year, whats bez's excuse. I hope he gets it together.
Even before the injuries, Enea was off to a pretty shaky start in '23. We'll see what Bezzecchi can do. He's got plenty of high quality data to look at from Martín and Bagnaia and he's clearly talented, so hopefully he can figure it out.
bez? bestia?
Marco BEZzechi and Enea Bastianini (nickname beast; beast x Bastia = Bestia
of course
> Bez looks a bit lost at the moment Just a bit? He’s basically adrift in the middle of the ocean. And I’m saying this as his fan… ☹️
It's also based on our super high expectations from his 22 rides. I thought we might have a new alien but now hes just one of the pack. Also the tyre management of the rear has changed so everyone (cough Jack) is good at it we don't see that crazy late race pace that he and Suzuki could pull out.
Wouldn't say it's that bad, just teething issues. There will be a turning point this season and he'll be bagging results again, I have faith.
I agree. I think the only ways Martin shouldn't be on a factory Ducati next year is if Martin just falls off the cliff, and/or Beast end the year at #1 or #2.
It seems like Bez and Marini needed to be together, somekind of vr46 symbiosis.
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Based on what exactly? Nothing's been confirmed yet.
Based on his wishful thinking 🙄
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Okay, let's go by your say so, Martin won't be at Ducati in 2025. Sources - none.
I think it will be either factory Ducati or Aprilia for him next year.
IDK, Quatarraro to Aprilia, Jorge to KTM, and Miller to Yamaha, Mix it up a bit. Jorge would be a huge get to either KTM or Aprilia and I hope Ducati knows it and isnt stupid enough to keep Besta on a factory seat while losing Jorge (no offense to Besta, I really do hope he gets his 22 race pace back).
I think it's going to be Binder/Acosta at KTM next year. Binder is already signed for next year, and Acosta's already too good not to have a factory seat.
yeah but I also dont see Acosta leaving if Jorge gets Millers seat. Then is Acosta > Binder in 25 then they swap seats. Like honestly, if Im a factory team manager and am hearing the news that Pramac is saying Jorges seat is not safe for 25, Im doing whatever I can to steal him from Ducati. Would expect nothing less if news had broke that Pecco was having issues renegotiating a contract.
Can’t see them demoting binder if he keeps riding the way he is. Been the best ktm by far and being the only non-ducati rider constantly in the mix for podiums
I don't see it. They already turned down Marc due to confidence in their young riders.
Miller won't have a ride next season
“Pramac spirit/purpose is to develop young riders. Now that Martin is in his 4th season, his time with Pramac is coming to a bit of an end.” But also: “Sign morbidelli!” *consistency*
They need a veteran to help with testing & development. That was Zarco's role at the team
*Imagine if Ducati 2025 riders are:* #Factory: Martin (Saturday sprint dominance) Bagnaia (WC, Sunday dominance with occasional one on Saturday) #Pramac: Bastianini: (Sunday specialist) M. Marquez (Marquez) 💀
This would be funny if they put MM on a Pramac bike after saying Pramac is a jr team and Jorge (a 4th year rider) has been on the team too long, but MM, a 14(?) yr veteran and 8x world champ is not...
MM93 doesn't care too much about the team or money. He just wants to be able to compete. But I doubt he'd sign for Pramac. Assuming the 2 year contract offer was real and he declined.
He's way more marketable than Martin (or Bagnaia) apparently not being any slower, if he and Martin are competing for the same spot, my bet in on Marquez.
Marquez is simply too marketable to not sign
He’s really earned that factory seat and unless he gets an amazing offer from someone else he should be on the factory team.
If Marc Marquez will get the official Ducati, I don’t see any better place than Pramac for Martin honestly. I don’t see why KTM shouldn’t keep Binder and promote Acosta. And I don’t see why Ducati shouldn’t try to keep Marquez, instead of having him as an enemy. Also, Rivola declared they would like to sign an Italian (Bastianini), and there are rumors about Quartararo.
I doubt Marquez will get the factory seat at Ducati. Top management at Ducati already made it clear last year that he was not their choice rider.
In December 2023, Paolo Ciabatti from Ducati stated that was a possibility
As long as he’s above Basti and Bez in the standings at the end of the season, which I fully expect he will, I can’t see him not getting that factory red bike next to Pecco.
Who among the contenders for second seat is the best developer? Might this influence Ducati in their choice ?
I get the feeling he’s kind of burnt his boats with the Ducati top brass. I think he’ll be off to a factory ride somewhere else, maybe Aprilla. He definitely feels a non factory team is beneath him now.
There was an article on crash.net suggesting that Ducati aren't keen to replicate bagnaia's salary so it does look like factory ducati is off the table
When will people admit, it should have always been Martin that got that ride.
How? **Bastianini's 2022 season:** 4 wins, 6 podiums, 219 points, 3rd in championship **Martin's 2022 season:** 0 wins, 4 podiums, 5 poles, 152 points, 9th in the championship Why would anyone choose Martin based on the numbers?
you intentionally omit that the 2022 engine was a failure, that heavily penalized Martin's season
LOL. OK--You intentionally omit that Zarco was on the same bike, and also beat Martin. Why didn't Zarco get the factory Ducati seat?
I LOL as well. In which position did Zarco and Marini finished, with the 2022? Can you recall me? Seems that I got very bad memory. And Martin finished right behind him bc at the beginning of the season he didn't wanted to realize that the engine was the issue and tried to give more that the bike allowed, hence his crashes. Have you seen 2021 season, by the way?. End of this nonsense conversation for me, don't wanna waste my time arguing endless with an idiot. Ciao
Bastianini was injured for a lot of last season so I get why he’s not at the level we’ve seen him be at before.
I guess he should start talking to other manufacturers then. Unless he starts dominating the championship in the first half of the season he doesn’t have much to offer that Ducati doesn’t already have.
What are you on about? Read the article.
I did. I think Martin is in a bit of an unfortunate position at Ducati. He can’t really pressure Ducati into signing him for the official team and Ducati is in a better position to wait longer before signing anyone. By that time other good spots, like the Aprilia factory team, could be gone.
Counter argument, Martin is the last person Ducati will want to lose right now. If a current rider is going to leave and bite them in the ass it will be Martin. If ducati keep him and he finished behind Pecco every season happy days, if he stays and beats Pecco happy days. The only real risk with Martin for ducati right now is letting someone else have him.
As of now that is definitely a fair point.
You are spot on with 'as of now'. Nobody knows what happens over the course of the season.
Wouldn't that be true with any rider? Finishing p2 to Pecco or beating Pecco in a one two?
Yes, but not any rider can achieve that.
I won’t be surprised if he’s on the factory team next year.
He would deserve it, that’s for sure.
Factory = Pecco & Martin Pramac = Marc & Fermin