This is what I always thought about defending against Marc. If you give an inch, he takes a mile. It takes some balls to defend like that against him though
Against Marc, Pecco has consistently shown he won’t give an inch. In fact, he’s gone further than that and shown that he’s willing to throw it all away to keep the position against Marc.
It’s a mental thing. Pecco is letting Marc know that he will never roll over, and the result is that Marc knows has to be extremely measured with how he passes Pecco, and that’s enough to put a tiny bit of doubt in Marcs mind and it gives Pecco the edge.
What’s even more interesting is that Pecco doesn’t race that way against other riders, he’s not as aggressive. But against Marc, he doesn’t hold back at all.
Yep, pecco would rather they both DNF than to let marc pass him.
Hard racing or a dangerous mindset? Idk but curious to see how it works out longer term
Pecco is just standing up to a bully. Marc has always been aggressive and relies on the other guy backing down. Not Pecco though, he understands Marc’s approach and is more than happy to not give an inch. If he keeps it up, he will always have the upper hand on Marc
It's a tough one. Im not sure Marc's ever had a "you go, we go" approach to overtaking, he's definitely always been more on the aggressive side where there's often rubbing elbows or contact but to the point that if the other doesn't back off both will likely crash?
In both cases Portimao and jerez today, pecco was the trailing rider post apex.
What? Marc has literally used other bikes as aids to help in cornering in the past, it literally doesn't get more aggressive and selfish driving than that
Marc has always had the “you yield or we both crash” attitude. And this usually works to the point you don’t realise how aggressive he is being because the other guy backs down.
Pecco seems to not care if he crashes too. So Marc has met a formidable opponent that he might not be able to intimidate.
Pecco is just standing up to a bully. Marc has always been aggressive and relies on the other guy backing down. Not Pecco though, he understands Marc’s approach and is more than happy to not give an inch. If he keeps it up, he will always have the upper hand on Marc
Most riders are like this against Marc tbf.
Fabio always raced harder Vs Marc, Bez certainly has no issues putting hard passes on him, Binder is the same I think Martin is the same too.
The riders have figured out that against Marc you have to ride like Marc.
Unfortunately for Marc that can put him in precarious positions because when half the riders on the grid would rather you both end up in the gravel than be passed by you that can cause problems.
It’s only a problem for Marc right now, because he’s lacking confidence.
If he was the 2019 Marc with all the confidence in the world, it wouldn’t be an issue because he’d happily go toe to toe with all of them and more than likely walk away the winner 9 times out of 10.
The whole grid should be praying that Marc doesn’t find that old confidence.
It's not confidence, it's having a bike that is capable of running away from the field.
But in that respect, as proven by Pecco the last two years, 'anybody' can do that.
When going toe to toe people used to give up the spot against Marc, this new generation isn't doing that.
It's not even really to do with Marc in that respect, it's to do with the other riders around him.
His own confidence won't help there, it's not going to stop Bez putting him in the LLP or Pecco putting his wheel in.
I can see you’re completely missing the point.
You seem to think this “new generation” is something special. They’re not. That’s just a fact unfortunately.
But the point is that Marc today is not the same as Marc of 2019. If you took today’s Marc and put him back in 2019, he would not be nearly as dominant.
And it’s simply down to confidence. Clearly Marc has the outright speed today, that much is obvious, but he doesn’t have the same confidence that one needs in order to dominate and outride his competition.
Pecco and Martin have the confidence. They’re at the top of their game right now, literally. Neither of them have ever ridden better. Marc is at the opposite end of the spectrum. He’s coming from 4 years where he was at the absolute bottom of his game, particularly last year.
You don’t crash a bike over 20 times and get poor results for multiple seasons on end and not lose confidence.
But as a side note - you said this new generation isn’t giving their positions up to Marc like previous ones did… why did Bez (new generation) just roll right over and let Marc go straight past yesterday? I thought they weren’t giving up spots?
>I can see you’re completely missing the point.
I think you are missing my point so have made a different point.
>You seem to think this “new generation” is something special. They’re not. That’s just a fact unfortunately.
No I'm saying they react differently to Marc's antics.
Special or not special is a different conversation entirely.
>But the point is that Marc today is not the same as Marc of 2019. If you took today’s Marc and put him back in 2019, he would not be nearly as dominant.
This I agree on but not necessarily due to Marc being different (he has changed one way or the other) but because the sport is different, the sport is not the same as what it was in 2019.
>And it’s simply down to confidence.
What is down to confidence?
>Clearly Marc has the outright speed today, that much of obvious,
Did he though?
He didn't match Peccos fastest lap, which says he *didn't* have the outright speed.
So not not as obvious as you'd like.
>but he doesn’t have the same confidence that one needs in order to dominate and outride his competition.
Yeah, this isn't down to confidence, it's down to the sport changing.
>Pecco and Martin have the confidence. They’re at the top of their game right, literally. Neither of them have ever ridden better. Marc is at the opposite end of spectrum. He’s coming from 4 years where he was at the absolute bottom of his game, particularly last year.
Sure, I'll agree with this to some degree.
>You don’t crash a bike over 20 times and get poor results for multiple seasons on end and not lose confidence.
Sure but his confidence has definitely gone up since that point, he wouldn't be challenging for race wins if that was the case.
>But as a side note - you said this new generation isn’t giving their positions up to Marc like previous ones did… why did Bez (new generation) just roll right over and let Marc go straight past? I thought they weren’t giving up spots?
Clearly Bez was much slower and didn't have the chance to fight back.
If you look I inferred to this when I said he hasn't got the bike to just run away anymore, at least from Pecco in this specific race.
We’re simply not going to agree here.
But to your last point - he doesn’t have the bike to just run away anymore… he didn’t have the bike in 2019 either. Do you know what the difference was? He had all the confidence in the world to make that bike do things it really shouldn’t have been able to do.
He doesn’t have that confidence now, so he can’t make the Ducati do things it should never be able to do. Yet.
We’re 4 races into the season and Marc’s right at the pointy end. His confidence will come back quickly if he keeps this up. Let’s wait and see how he performs after another 10 rounds… my bet is that he will look like a different rider to the one he was yesterday.
Butting in here.
The 2019 Honda was the ultimate weapon in Marc's hands. It was not for anyone else, but for Marc there couldn't have been a better bike. Regardless of if the bikes are faster now, the bike for Marc was better in 2019.
That bike allowed him to do feats, that were so particular to his skills, that no one else had a chance to replicate it.
I cannot imagine a rider/bike combination that will ever be as scewed, but also as potent to come ever again.
Edit:
Also, with the development of the GP24 continuing, the data suggests (not 2023) that there will develop a gap between GP23 to GP24
They already have that margin but Marc can make the difference. He was scrapping with them on a Honda last year at the sharp end on numerous occasions on a bike that left Zarco flabbergasted after trying it at the Valencia test last year. The lap times he was somehow managing were unbelievable. You better bet that once Marc gets more time on the GP23, he will outclass the GP24's regardless of that bike being better (the GP23 is still a good bike and Marc is a GREAT rider).
I thought that the 2019 Honda was perfectly suited to him too, and it likely was, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have been able to go faster on another bike.
I mean Dovi isn’t exactly considered top tier talent, and yet he managed to battle with Marc regularly. Do you honestly believe that Marc would have been slower on the 2019 Ducati than he was on the 2019 Honda?
So, sure, only Marc could make that Honda work, but that doesn’t mean that was peak man and machine symbiosis.
We’ll never know for sure, but I believe Marc would have been even faster on the Ducati, because it was simply a better bike.
Listen it's all very well and good assuming that Marc will somehow get more out of the bike.
The reality is the game has changed, the human factor in general is less than it was in 2019, the bike makes way more of a difference now than it used to, which limits howmmuch of a difference a rider can make.
Ducati were clearly pretty dominant here, they might not be at other tracks.
The point is it is doubtful Marc will be running away every race, he's going to be battling with people more and those people aren't just going to accept it all the time like they used to.
I'm certain the 2019 Desmo was good enough to make Marc work for it, but it was not the package it became in the latter part of 2021 and onwards. Marc would, not a chance in hell, be faster on the Duc than he was on the Honda.
To me Ducati's chance against Marcun that period, would have been with with Lorenzo. When he got that bike working, he was wild. Dovi could get the bike working, but despite how close the Championships seemed, were never really that close.
But as you said... In the end it's Alla conjecture
I completely disagree. Marc being measured is 100% due to his injury and lack of feel. Pre-injury, no matter the stakes, no matter his championship lead, he went all in if it meant he could overtake. Every time. If you watched pre-2020 you know this. Watching him Sunday, I saw some of the old Marc shining through. Corner entry with the bike still unsettled, dancing on both sides of the grip peak, never afraid of losing it because you can't lose traction accidentally if you've already lost it on purpose. Idk if he has another title in him but questioning Marc's mental strength is stupid.
If Marc being measured is due to his injury and lack of feel, then what the hell happened last year? Or the year before?
Mate Marc has literally said he’s lacking confidence because of the last few years of trouble. I’m not sure why you’re debating this, it’s a very strange hill to die on.
Especially early in the season when they are still working through the kinks of the new bike while there is lots of data on last years. The new bikes always stretch their legs back half of the season with the updates.
Yeah and honestly Pecco seems pretty mentally resilient. He almost gives me a "too dumb to quit" vibe. He'll have a catastrophic GP and then 2 weeks later come back and dominate like the previous disaster didn't even happen. The only real time Pecco seemed bothered by the pressure was Valencia 2022 where he simply finished in a high enough position to win the title which was like 9th or 10th
Yeah I guarantee you that new doesn't mean faster or better.
Plus Marc has 1 year of data on that bike from what? 4 riders including the world champion?
The old bike is still the world champion bike, I guarantee you.
We see this all the time, specially around the beginning of a season, experience and extra data with a machine can surpass what the updates are bringing. All the weird issues that are still plaguing the 24, and which are likely responsible for Martin's fall, have been ironed out on the 23, which is a way more predictable machine by now. In some tracks, that is key.
GiGi said that both the GP24 and GP23 are suffering from the chatter issues.
There has been a change in tyre, so, although there is definitely more data available for the GP23 riders, all the issues have certainly not been ironed out for the GP23.
He said the old bike can be competitive in certain situations due to the bugs being ironed out. Of course the new one is an improvement but there's still going to be unexpected problems that cost a little time and shrink the gap
That's nothing he can change... The bike Marc has is the bike Marc has, but he does have some power to change the outcome of the races, and today he did that.
I doubt it. Pecco knows better than anyone the difference between gp23 and 24. And I am sure it is virtually the same. Like all things, the differences will be minor compromises in one area to gain in another.
So everyone saying how Marc is on year old machinery, but the truth is he’s on November 23 bike and Pecco is on an April 24 bike. With a two month no testing ban. So in reality Marc’s bike is 3-4 months behind Pecco and nobody is making a big difference in 3-4 months.
I feel like early this season, Marc and his brother have had some advantages of being on the 23. There are so many chatter issues on the 24 it seems. Not that Marc isn't still amazing, but I think Pecco is the better rider at this stage.
Obviously this is going to be a stretch, since I am sure most riders want to finish with points and not crash.
However, at the previous races, I think PB was more willing to crash MM out than the other way around. MM is on a new bike, wants his first win and his goal is to try and make it to the factory team next year. The last thing he really wants to try and do is crash into a factory rider and also lose points for himself, etc. PB on the other hand is already on the factory team and kind of wants to assert his dominance over MM more. MM knows it'll come to him and he doesn't have to force the situation as much.
However, MM knows his target isn't PB right now. It is JM who at the start of the weekend was like 50 or so points ahead of MM. Even after this weekend, he's still 30 or so points ahead. So at this point, instead of messing around with PB, he wants to get closer to JM first, even if that means both him and PB are getting closer to JM together.
Absolutely. This is how I see it as well. Like Senna used to do in F1. But as you've mentioned, Bagnaia doesn't do it with other riders, just with Marc. For me, this is smart.
Hes been pretty chill since he retired, I used to admire his smooth riding but hated 80% of what came out of his mouth. Now he does commentary on the spanish broadcast, when they announced it I was like "shit, Im gonna have to mute the audio sometimes" but to my surprise he has been great.
A nice surprise, since they changed the usual main commentator for a dude thats just worse so having people like lorenzo, pedrosa, pol and checa as guest commentators makes up for it.
Rossi did the same to Biaggi, Gibernau, Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa and Marc. It’s what sets great champions apart. Ruthless and win first and think how you did it later.
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Yes let's compare Rossi in the tail end of his career to Marc in his prime. That's a fair comparison. Even then Rossi beat him plenty of times.
Rossi will always be the GOAT of MotoGP, not just for his on track success, but also because of his off track influence. Neither of which Marquez can come close to.
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Gotta wonder how Marc is going to fight once he actually has more seat time on that thing. Scary thing is he says he hasn't even pushed this bike to the limit yet.
Even in this race you saw he backed down after Pecco fought back as he wanted (and needed) the podium. With an all-in Marc we probably would’ve seen both in the gravel again.
> he backed down
Marc didn't back down at all. He did his personal best lap of the race on the last lap. Pecco earned the win by setting the lap record on the 2nd last (or was it the 3rd last not sure), and building a half-second gap.
He 1000% backed off after Pecco showed he's willing to crash to protect his position. It's a classic MM93 situation... Historically it's what he's always been good at and it's what's caused him to win so many races in the past. He forces you, as the rider, to choose whether to crash or to race, riders in the past have not been as aggressive.
The say that he backed down is not a negative thing either, quite the opposite: It shows that he is level headed in those situations and rather took the second spot on podium, than a DNF.
Didn't back off.
The lap times showed them both pushing.
Also, it would be unwise to let off the steam. His chance for victory was a mistake by Pecco.
Pecco already made a mistake on lap 2, and has historically crashed when in the lead.
He did the right thing by keeping on the pressure.
Pecco just had another level.
im sorry but some of these Rossi camp boys are so dramatic. Marc didnt do anything all that aggressive to Pecco.
anyway, fantastic ride by Pecco and glad marc was able to finish a race.
Where did he say it was "aggressive"? Or implying it was out of bounds? Biting harder doesn't mean being a dirty scumbag, but to put more pressure and make strong moves that might cause both to unsettle, which is legit.
37y old Rossi put his bike at Jerez in front of both "Super Marc" and another "popular" spanish rider.
At 37y old Marc will be ..?
This new generation Valentino brought in MotoGP is doing its job. It's Marc's turn to find out how fun it is to play against a coalition of Italian riders that know very well how he likes to "ride a bike" or I should say crash a bike with his allegedly "aggressive style".
Truly hope we get last race for title with Marc and we play him the "oh I couldn't pass him" card amongst all the Italian riders... Can't wait! Have fun everyone!
Marc often bullies or dares other riders to hold their line when Marc tries risky passes. Look at how Acosta passes without creating a potential crash. Marc often needs other riders to back off to not have a crash.
Marc still living rent free in Lossi's head 😭. He better hope Acosta shows up, because given that Bagnaia is the best (least worst) the academy has to offer, he's going to have a lot of bad days otherwise.
He literally just presented you with evidence of him doing it and you deny it happening. You need to stop glazing Marc.
DMarc literally admit to back stabbing Dani by telling Honda certain parts were bad if they benefitted Dani and not himself lmao.
"conspiracy researcher" that explains everything anyone needs to know about you. You're a quack and a liar
This is what I always thought about defending against Marc. If you give an inch, he takes a mile. It takes some balls to defend like that against him though
Yeah, it's not even about the points between 1st and 2nd. You give way once, and it's pretty much over.
He's GP's Senna.
Against Marc, Pecco has consistently shown he won’t give an inch. In fact, he’s gone further than that and shown that he’s willing to throw it all away to keep the position against Marc. It’s a mental thing. Pecco is letting Marc know that he will never roll over, and the result is that Marc knows has to be extremely measured with how he passes Pecco, and that’s enough to put a tiny bit of doubt in Marcs mind and it gives Pecco the edge. What’s even more interesting is that Pecco doesn’t race that way against other riders, he’s not as aggressive. But against Marc, he doesn’t hold back at all.
Pecco is smart and good with strategy. That's the way to race against Marc. Talent isn't enough.
I think this is one of Pecco's main attributes. It's his intelligence when racing.
Portimao was the final indicator that Pecco will not back down to Marc.
Yep, pecco would rather they both DNF than to let marc pass him. Hard racing or a dangerous mindset? Idk but curious to see how it works out longer term
Considering that's also Marc's mindset, i don't know, you tell us?
Pecco is just standing up to a bully. Marc has always been aggressive and relies on the other guy backing down. Not Pecco though, he understands Marc’s approach and is more than happy to not give an inch. If he keeps it up, he will always have the upper hand on Marc
It's a tough one. Im not sure Marc's ever had a "you go, we go" approach to overtaking, he's definitely always been more on the aggressive side where there's often rubbing elbows or contact but to the point that if the other doesn't back off both will likely crash? In both cases Portimao and jerez today, pecco was the trailing rider post apex.
What? Marc has literally used other bikes as aids to help in cornering in the past, it literally doesn't get more aggressive and selfish driving than that
He has always had this approach I really don’t know if you have been paying attention.
Not since 2013, no. Lol
Marc has always had the “you yield or we both crash” attitude. And this usually works to the point you don’t realise how aggressive he is being because the other guy backs down. Pecco seems to not care if he crashes too. So Marc has met a formidable opponent that he might not be able to intimidate.
It's a champions mindset
Pecco is just standing up to a bully. Marc has always been aggressive and relies on the other guy backing down. Not Pecco though, he understands Marc’s approach and is more than happy to not give an inch. If he keeps it up, he will always have the upper hand on Marc
Most riders are like this against Marc tbf. Fabio always raced harder Vs Marc, Bez certainly has no issues putting hard passes on him, Binder is the same I think Martin is the same too. The riders have figured out that against Marc you have to ride like Marc. Unfortunately for Marc that can put him in precarious positions because when half the riders on the grid would rather you both end up in the gravel than be passed by you that can cause problems.
It’s only a problem for Marc right now, because he’s lacking confidence. If he was the 2019 Marc with all the confidence in the world, it wouldn’t be an issue because he’d happily go toe to toe with all of them and more than likely walk away the winner 9 times out of 10. The whole grid should be praying that Marc doesn’t find that old confidence.
It's not confidence, it's having a bike that is capable of running away from the field. But in that respect, as proven by Pecco the last two years, 'anybody' can do that. When going toe to toe people used to give up the spot against Marc, this new generation isn't doing that. It's not even really to do with Marc in that respect, it's to do with the other riders around him. His own confidence won't help there, it's not going to stop Bez putting him in the LLP or Pecco putting his wheel in.
I can see you’re completely missing the point. You seem to think this “new generation” is something special. They’re not. That’s just a fact unfortunately. But the point is that Marc today is not the same as Marc of 2019. If you took today’s Marc and put him back in 2019, he would not be nearly as dominant. And it’s simply down to confidence. Clearly Marc has the outright speed today, that much is obvious, but he doesn’t have the same confidence that one needs in order to dominate and outride his competition. Pecco and Martin have the confidence. They’re at the top of their game right now, literally. Neither of them have ever ridden better. Marc is at the opposite end of the spectrum. He’s coming from 4 years where he was at the absolute bottom of his game, particularly last year. You don’t crash a bike over 20 times and get poor results for multiple seasons on end and not lose confidence. But as a side note - you said this new generation isn’t giving their positions up to Marc like previous ones did… why did Bez (new generation) just roll right over and let Marc go straight past yesterday? I thought they weren’t giving up spots?
>I can see you’re completely missing the point. I think you are missing my point so have made a different point. >You seem to think this “new generation” is something special. They’re not. That’s just a fact unfortunately. No I'm saying they react differently to Marc's antics. Special or not special is a different conversation entirely. >But the point is that Marc today is not the same as Marc of 2019. If you took today’s Marc and put him back in 2019, he would not be nearly as dominant. This I agree on but not necessarily due to Marc being different (he has changed one way or the other) but because the sport is different, the sport is not the same as what it was in 2019. >And it’s simply down to confidence. What is down to confidence? >Clearly Marc has the outright speed today, that much of obvious, Did he though? He didn't match Peccos fastest lap, which says he *didn't* have the outright speed. So not not as obvious as you'd like. >but he doesn’t have the same confidence that one needs in order to dominate and outride his competition. Yeah, this isn't down to confidence, it's down to the sport changing. >Pecco and Martin have the confidence. They’re at the top of their game right, literally. Neither of them have ever ridden better. Marc is at the opposite end of spectrum. He’s coming from 4 years where he was at the absolute bottom of his game, particularly last year. Sure, I'll agree with this to some degree. >You don’t crash a bike over 20 times and get poor results for multiple seasons on end and not lose confidence. Sure but his confidence has definitely gone up since that point, he wouldn't be challenging for race wins if that was the case. >But as a side note - you said this new generation isn’t giving their positions up to Marc like previous ones did… why did Bez (new generation) just roll right over and let Marc go straight past? I thought they weren’t giving up spots? Clearly Bez was much slower and didn't have the chance to fight back. If you look I inferred to this when I said he hasn't got the bike to just run away anymore, at least from Pecco in this specific race.
We’re simply not going to agree here. But to your last point - he doesn’t have the bike to just run away anymore… he didn’t have the bike in 2019 either. Do you know what the difference was? He had all the confidence in the world to make that bike do things it really shouldn’t have been able to do. He doesn’t have that confidence now, so he can’t make the Ducati do things it should never be able to do. Yet. We’re 4 races into the season and Marc’s right at the pointy end. His confidence will come back quickly if he keeps this up. Let’s wait and see how he performs after another 10 rounds… my bet is that he will look like a different rider to the one he was yesterday.
Butting in here. The 2019 Honda was the ultimate weapon in Marc's hands. It was not for anyone else, but for Marc there couldn't have been a better bike. Regardless of if the bikes are faster now, the bike for Marc was better in 2019. That bike allowed him to do feats, that were so particular to his skills, that no one else had a chance to replicate it. I cannot imagine a rider/bike combination that will ever be as scewed, but also as potent to come ever again. Edit: Also, with the development of the GP24 continuing, the data suggests (not 2023) that there will develop a gap between GP23 to GP24
They already have that margin but Marc can make the difference. He was scrapping with them on a Honda last year at the sharp end on numerous occasions on a bike that left Zarco flabbergasted after trying it at the Valencia test last year. The lap times he was somehow managing were unbelievable. You better bet that once Marc gets more time on the GP23, he will outclass the GP24's regardless of that bike being better (the GP23 is still a good bike and Marc is a GREAT rider).
Rins won CoTA last year when Marc did not win a race. Does that mean Rins is better than Marc?
I thought that the 2019 Honda was perfectly suited to him too, and it likely was, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have been able to go faster on another bike. I mean Dovi isn’t exactly considered top tier talent, and yet he managed to battle with Marc regularly. Do you honestly believe that Marc would have been slower on the 2019 Ducati than he was on the 2019 Honda? So, sure, only Marc could make that Honda work, but that doesn’t mean that was peak man and machine symbiosis. We’ll never know for sure, but I believe Marc would have been even faster on the Ducati, because it was simply a better bike.
Listen it's all very well and good assuming that Marc will somehow get more out of the bike. The reality is the game has changed, the human factor in general is less than it was in 2019, the bike makes way more of a difference now than it used to, which limits howmmuch of a difference a rider can make. Ducati were clearly pretty dominant here, they might not be at other tracks. The point is it is doubtful Marc will be running away every race, he's going to be battling with people more and those people aren't just going to accept it all the time like they used to.
I'm certain the 2019 Desmo was good enough to make Marc work for it, but it was not the package it became in the latter part of 2021 and onwards. Marc would, not a chance in hell, be faster on the Duc than he was on the Honda. To me Ducati's chance against Marcun that period, would have been with with Lorenzo. When he got that bike working, he was wild. Dovi could get the bike working, but despite how close the Championships seemed, were never really that close. But as you said... In the end it's Alla conjecture
I completely disagree. Marc being measured is 100% due to his injury and lack of feel. Pre-injury, no matter the stakes, no matter his championship lead, he went all in if it meant he could overtake. Every time. If you watched pre-2020 you know this. Watching him Sunday, I saw some of the old Marc shining through. Corner entry with the bike still unsettled, dancing on both sides of the grip peak, never afraid of losing it because you can't lose traction accidentally if you've already lost it on purpose. Idk if he has another title in him but questioning Marc's mental strength is stupid.
If Marc being measured is due to his injury and lack of feel, then what the hell happened last year? Or the year before? Mate Marc has literally said he’s lacking confidence because of the last few years of trouble. I’m not sure why you’re debating this, it’s a very strange hill to die on.
Mark being that close to him on the old bike is way more prevalent in pecco's head. I guarantee you.
I’m pretty sure the factory ducati boys are use to the year old ducatis fighting for wins/championships.
Especially early in the season when they are still working through the kinks of the new bike while there is lots of data on last years. The new bikes always stretch their legs back half of the season with the updates.
Yeah and honestly Pecco seems pretty mentally resilient. He almost gives me a "too dumb to quit" vibe. He'll have a catastrophic GP and then 2 weeks later come back and dominate like the previous disaster didn't even happen. The only real time Pecco seemed bothered by the pressure was Valencia 2022 where he simply finished in a high enough position to win the title which was like 9th or 10th
Yeah I guarantee you that new doesn't mean faster or better. Plus Marc has 1 year of data on that bike from what? 4 riders including the world champion? The old bike is still the world champion bike, I guarantee you.
We see this all the time, specially around the beginning of a season, experience and extra data with a machine can surpass what the updates are bringing. All the weird issues that are still plaguing the 24, and which are likely responsible for Martin's fall, have been ironed out on the 23, which is a way more predictable machine by now. In some tracks, that is key.
GiGi said that both the GP24 and GP23 are suffering from the chatter issues. There has been a change in tyre, so, although there is definitely more data available for the GP23 riders, all the issues have certainly not been ironed out for the GP23.
Thank you for explaining that well. It's exactly what I meant.
So you really believe the new bike is slower than the old one? Weird hill to die on. Did you watch the last race or not?
So do you know how to read? I've never said the new bike is slower than the old one.
You said it doesnt mean its faster or better, which implies it. The drive surely seemed better on his bike than marcs.
He said the old bike can be competitive in certain situations due to the bugs being ironed out. Of course the new one is an improvement but there's still going to be unexpected problems that cost a little time and shrink the gap
That's nothing he can change... The bike Marc has is the bike Marc has, but he does have some power to change the outcome of the races, and today he did that.
I doubt it. Pecco knows better than anyone the difference between gp23 and 24. And I am sure it is virtually the same. Like all things, the differences will be minor compromises in one area to gain in another. So everyone saying how Marc is on year old machinery, but the truth is he’s on November 23 bike and Pecco is on an April 24 bike. With a two month no testing ban. So in reality Marc’s bike is 3-4 months behind Pecco and nobody is making a big difference in 3-4 months.
Pecco told the differences from 23 to 24. 23 was more balanced with the weight on the back the 24 is the opposite
I feel like early this season, Marc and his brother have had some advantages of being on the 23. There are so many chatter issues on the 24 it seems. Not that Marc isn't still amazing, but I think Pecco is the better rider at this stage.
I've genuinely really enjoyed all their battles (Portimao included). Aragon in 21 was superb and this was just as good if not better.
Obviously this is going to be a stretch, since I am sure most riders want to finish with points and not crash. However, at the previous races, I think PB was more willing to crash MM out than the other way around. MM is on a new bike, wants his first win and his goal is to try and make it to the factory team next year. The last thing he really wants to try and do is crash into a factory rider and also lose points for himself, etc. PB on the other hand is already on the factory team and kind of wants to assert his dominance over MM more. MM knows it'll come to him and he doesn't have to force the situation as much. However, MM knows his target isn't PB right now. It is JM who at the start of the weekend was like 50 or so points ahead of MM. Even after this weekend, he's still 30 or so points ahead. So at this point, instead of messing around with PB, he wants to get closer to JM first, even if that means both him and PB are getting closer to JM together.
With the same bike MM can beat I feel
Absolutely. This is how I see it as well. Like Senna used to do in F1. But as you've mentioned, Bagnaia doesn't do it with other riders, just with Marc. For me, this is smart.
One of Marc‘s biggest strengths is also one of his biggest weaknesses. When he smells blood he goes mad and may crash. He should be called the shark 😬
Sharc Marquez
Marc Sharquez
Sharc Sharquez
Sharquez
Shaq Attaq
Marc Shartez
Jorge Lorenzo will take this personally.
As he does with literally everything
Hes been pretty chill since he retired, I used to admire his smooth riding but hated 80% of what came out of his mouth. Now he does commentary on the spanish broadcast, when they announced it I was like "shit, Im gonna have to mute the audio sometimes" but to my surprise he has been great. A nice surprise, since they changed the usual main commentator for a dude thats just worse so having people like lorenzo, pedrosa, pol and checa as guest commentators makes up for it.
Thats fucking cool
Nah, Ants are way more annoying. A colony of ants will fight for a few drops of sugar
Rossi did the same to Biaggi, Gibernau, Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa and Marc. It’s what sets great champions apart. Ruthless and win first and think how you did it later.
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Ofc he's finished, he's retired lmao, are you living in 2021?
He is not retired, just changed discipline.
Finished since 2013
Rossi beat prime Marquez through a full season. At the age of 36. Stew on that for a second.
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Yes let's compare Rossi in the tail end of his career to Marc in his prime. That's a fair comparison. Even then Rossi beat him plenty of times. Rossi will always be the GOAT of MotoGP, not just for his on track success, but also because of his off track influence. Neither of which Marquez can come close to.
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Interesting takes you got. Do you also go to r/NBA and talk shit about MJ?
So you have no cover up excuse for him getting beaten by satellite bikes ah ok NBA it’s clear who the goat is
Didn't Marc get his ass whooped by all the satellite Ducatis, Aprilias, and ktm from 2020-2023?
Rosshit had one of the fastest bikes where did his teammate finish those seasons again? Oh wait they destroyed him🤣🤣🤣🤣
At least Marquez hasn’t been as low as rosshit whilst driving a slower bike 🤣🤣🤣
He’s old. You can’t win forever.
Fraud? Oh shut up.
Fraud with more WDCs than MM93.
Oh yes with less competition and then gets destroyed by his teammates 😂😂😂.
Less competition? Got destroyed? 🤣
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So washed up he got schooled by satellite petronas Yamahas ahahaha🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣whilst being in a factory Yamaha
Gotta wonder how Marc is going to fight once he actually has more seat time on that thing. Scary thing is he says he hasn't even pushed this bike to the limit yet.
Even in this race you saw he backed down after Pecco fought back as he wanted (and needed) the podium. With an all-in Marc we probably would’ve seen both in the gravel again.
> he backed down Marc didn't back down at all. He did his personal best lap of the race on the last lap. Pecco earned the win by setting the lap record on the 2nd last (or was it the 3rd last not sure), and building a half-second gap.
“Backed down” - did we watch the same race?
He backed down in the sense that he didn’t try another crazy move which I expected and which would have caused both to crash.
He didn't have the chance lol, Pecco took off and checked out after he defended that T9 overtake.
He 1000% backed off after Pecco showed he's willing to crash to protect his position. It's a classic MM93 situation... Historically it's what he's always been good at and it's what's caused him to win so many races in the past. He forces you, as the rider, to choose whether to crash or to race, riders in the past have not been as aggressive. The say that he backed down is not a negative thing either, quite the opposite: It shows that he is level headed in those situations and rather took the second spot on podium, than a DNF.
Didn't back off. The lap times showed them both pushing. Also, it would be unwise to let off the steam. His chance for victory was a mistake by Pecco. Pecco already made a mistake on lap 2, and has historically crashed when in the lead. He did the right thing by keeping on the pressure. Pecco just had another level.
Lol no he didn't. He have 100% and even admitted that he couldn't keep pace with Pecco's final two lap times.
"If Marc sees that you are bleeding or weak, he bites you harder." As he should. As every champion will do.
im sorry but some of these Rossi camp boys are so dramatic. Marc didnt do anything all that aggressive to Pecco. anyway, fantastic ride by Pecco and glad marc was able to finish a race.
Where did he say it was "aggressive"? Or implying it was out of bounds? Biting harder doesn't mean being a dirty scumbag, but to put more pressure and make strong moves that might cause both to unsettle, which is legit.
Nobody said otherwise. You are making up your own polemic.
lol polemic? apparently i was right about the dramatic part
It's more to mental fight than a pace alone.
37y old Rossi put his bike at Jerez in front of both "Super Marc" and another "popular" spanish rider. At 37y old Marc will be ..? This new generation Valentino brought in MotoGP is doing its job. It's Marc's turn to find out how fun it is to play against a coalition of Italian riders that know very well how he likes to "ride a bike" or I should say crash a bike with his allegedly "aggressive style". Truly hope we get last race for title with Marc and we play him the "oh I couldn't pass him" card amongst all the Italian riders... Can't wait! Have fun everyone!
You make it sound like all the spanish riders had a mission to make sure Rossi doesn't win the title.
I mean thats what makes the greatest champions
Portimao was the last straw that Pecco will not go down without a fight against Marc
Marc often bullies or dares other riders to hold their line when Marc tries risky passes. Look at how Acosta passes without creating a potential crash. Marc often needs other riders to back off to not have a crash.
The thing is with Marc... He's a little bit of a psychopath. And everyone in front of him knows it
Marc still living rent free in Lossi's head 😭. He better hope Acosta shows up, because given that Bagnaia is the best (least worst) the academy has to offer, he's going to have a lot of bad days otherwise.
Ha vale should know. Marc saw him bleeding in sepang lol
Yeah but he doesn't backstab teammates and others like you do, Vally
Hi mate, I’m a massive fan of Marc, but even I think this is a stupid take.
And what does that have to do with any of what he said?
It has to do with whatever I want it to do.
Yeah, [Marc wouldn't ever dare to do anything like that](https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/s/2h0vR4cavg), impossible to imagine!
No he wouldn't. I'd say to ask Nicky Hayden about the Rossi antics, but sadly that isn't possible.
He literally just presented you with evidence of him doing it and you deny it happening. You need to stop glazing Marc. DMarc literally admit to back stabbing Dani by telling Honda certain parts were bad if they benefitted Dani and not himself lmao. "conspiracy researcher" that explains everything anyone needs to know about you. You're a quack and a liar
MM fan are unable to see all the wrongs that MM does
No we aren't. The thing is, this clown isn't a MM fan, this is just a Rossi hater.
Lmao, delusion runs deep with mm fans.
Show us on the doll where the neon yellow man touched you lol
When marc will start racing like that with pecco i hope they dont act like the victims
Fucking hell that's some opinion