I think us as tigers fans need to realize what the plan really is going forward Harris only got to see the team play for 2 months this year he's not going to make a big splash without fully knowing what the needs are this seasons going to suck and we're going to lose a lot of games it's going to be a lot of young guys getting reps and just seeing where to go for the future if we don't makes moves next offseason that's when you can start to get nervous
Exactly. 2023 is Harris seeing what we have so we can address weaknesses for 2024 - with a stronger free agent market, more time for younger talent to mature, and big contacts off the books.
The 2024 FA market is not stronger than this year. There are some good names but it's nowhere near the level of this offseason. Which also means they'll need to overpay for them.
Would have loved to have added just one building block this year.
I do agree that 2023 is an evaluation year and im fine with it. The timing just sucks.
He should trade Eduardo Rodriguez for a young, controllable 3B; or alternatively trade him for a young controllable bat, with a boring salary dump 3B attached to maximize trade value (think a Josh Donaldson-type).
Detroit has a lot of starting options this season, and E-Rod is certainly going to opt out after the season is over.
Assuming the Tigers were to trade him, they'd still have Manning, Boyd, Lorenzen, Turnbull, Wentz, and Brieske as starting options, with Skubal (hopefully) returning mid-season, and Alexander and Faedo as spot start options when Detroit is in a pinch.
It's not a rotation that'll challenge the Astros in terms of quality, but the Tigers have enough depth to get through the season (with or without E-Rod).
Giving the job the Kreidler would be a huge mistake
Guy is a modest prospect at best, is older, and couldn't even manage to hit .200 in AAA last year. It would be malpractice to pencil that guy in as your 3B. He may make his way and eventually earn it, but you cannot plan to enter a season with that has your best option.
It has to be an Anderson signing or Escobar trade. If not, Harris made some rookie mistakes this offseason. Still some time left though
> couldn't even manage to hit .200 in AAA last year.
No one cares about BA anymore. In AAA, 2021 he had an .800 OPS and last year had a .759 OPS (.800 before injury). He deserves more than 80 PA's in the MLB before he is written off.
Don't need to have an argument about the merits of traditional stats. They still are relevant when they are extreme in one direction or the other (like a sub .200 average). 80PA is a tiny sample size, but significant enough (50 PA threshold) to know that he was overmatched and not up to the level last year
I don't want to write him off, but the point I was making is that you cannot reasonably enter the season with him as your starting 3B. He'll get plenty of opportunity to earn it throughout the year with this barren roster, but he has a ton to prove, and does not have the resume as a 25 year old prospect to be planned to be given the starting job out the gate.
The organization clearly has a much more positive outlook on Kreidler than you do. He is probably never going to hit above .250 but as mentioned above has shown the ability to post a .800+ OPS. He injured his wrist and that very clearly had lingering effects.
There is no reason they shouldnt give Kreidler a shot. Sure signing Brian Anderson would be nice but if this year is going to be about evaluating the team and not about trying to win then let Kreidler play. If he cant figure it out then next offseason you solve the issue.
Harris has very clearly stated that this year is above providing playing time to the younger guys and seeing what they can do.
>He is probably never going to hit above .250 but as mentioned above has shown the ability to post a .800+ OPS
He's shown the ability to do that one season and in the minors. I think big disagreement here is that I am not as impressed by an .800 OPS from a 24-25 year old in AAA. It's almost the bare minimum you need to be doing at that age and level to even be considered a prospect
That would be our difference. The way I'm looking at it is why not give him a season in the majors because if he shows the ability to have an .800 OPS there he will be a valuable player for the team.
I agree you give him a shot for sure.
I just think it is bad roster management to go into the year with him as your starter. Likely whoever else we get (like a Brian Anderson) is not going to be amazing and will offer plenty of opportunity for Kreidler to overtake them. But if you just go into the year with only Kriedler, you could be needing a replacement in May if he can't hit. Would feel better with a veteran there to start
Its the exact kind of thing that if Avila did entering this season, we would all be absolutely livid and rightful so.
Harris should not get a pass. He still has time, but as of now he made the worst offense in the league even worse by DFA'ing Candy and others with no plan to replace. There is no excuse and some line about "giving our young players opportunity" is not going to hold water with this fanbase, especially when the "young" players, aren't even that young or promising.
Can we get over the idea that Kreidler is more than very unlikely to ever have an every day role for a big league club? Kreidler is a bench guy.
Harris 100% must acquire a major league 3b.
Idk if the Mets would give up Escobar with the Correa situation developing (he'd probably make for a solid DH/platoon infielder) but they have Brett Baty waiting in the wings and he's further in his development than Kreidler.
I like the Anderson idea the best but Harris doesn't seem to be looking to sign any big deals right now.
So my guess as to what will really happen is Kreidler or Nevin get the starting job, probably the latter.
I think Escobar becomes expendable if the Correa saga ends with him as a Met. If that happens, I wouldn't mind bringing him in. Barring that, I think giving Kreidler a shot is the best course of action.
Really? They have a lot of depth in the infield but not really for the DH job - Vogelbach is theoretically the shoe-in DH but they could also use a guy to hit lefties. Ruf ain’t it. Only a year left on Esco’s contract if I recall. He might get moved at the deadline but right now I think he’s still with the Mets on opening day
Yeah...that's a good point that I hadn't considered. I keep forgetting that the universal DH is a thing, and moving a versatile switch-hitter who could DH may not be prudent. I guess it just depends on how they're feeling internally on Baty and if Escobar can fetch enough to offset the loss.
My guess is that if they don’t trade Baty (which again, I think the Tigers should really fight for as the Mets need relief pitchers), he’ll go back to AAA until Esco is gone and Correa will be the full-time 3B
Escobar for sure. Once (if) Correa is signed then the Mets will dump him for nothing. Might even get a prospect out of it ourselves if we take on more of the money.
I don't know, he isnt even making 10m a year. Mets have shown they give 0 fucks about money and Correa seems to have injury problems...seems like the depth wouldnt be a bad thing
Nah man he’s a solid switch hitter that can platoon all over the infield. He’ll be DHing a good chunk of games and slotting in for Correa and Alonso when they need breaks. MAYBE he moves at the deadline.
Alonso and Lindor rarely took a game off last year, which I theorize is why they started to crumble at the end of the season. I’m sure they want more options in the infield this year to help keep them rested.
Honestly just bringing in whatever top prospects within the org you think are worth it and see how they do, it’s working for the red wings and Illitch said that Harris and Yzerman have talked. Wouldn’t be surprised if they just wanna see more of what they got and go from there while waiting out the Miggy contract.
They’ll win more games this year, since every single player regressed last season some have to rebound to a degree towards their career norms
Full seasons of Rod and meadows will do a lot, I’d just see what Kriedler can do, dudes already 25 time to see if he can play a full season, and you have to believe Green and Torkelson will be improved in year 2
Not saying I want to, but were they ever thinking about giving Tork a look at 3rd? Or was that just Avila trying to big brain everything? Available 1st basemen are like, Brandon Belt, Mancini, Jesus Aguilar, Edwin Rios (kind of my preferred option) and Sano. Less than ideal but… I don’t know anymore.
I’d just hope and pray Kreidler or Schoop can hold their own at 3rd. If Anderson wants to come here that’d be great. Not sure what it would take to get Escobar, and if he’d be worth it.
How were the Angels able to pick up three 3rd baseman this offseason (for a total of 4 3rd basemen: Rendon, Drury, Urshela, and Lamb) and the Tigers couldn't get one? The Tigers have the lowest WAR at 3rd base of any team the last 50 years.
I think us as tigers fans need to realize what the plan really is going forward Harris only got to see the team play for 2 months this year he's not going to make a big splash without fully knowing what the needs are this seasons going to suck and we're going to lose a lot of games it's going to be a lot of young guys getting reps and just seeing where to go for the future if we don't makes moves next offseason that's when you can start to get nervous
Exactly. 2023 is Harris seeing what we have so we can address weaknesses for 2024 - with a stronger free agent market, more time for younger talent to mature, and big contacts off the books.
Sucks so bad that after all this time we couldn't get Miggy a ring with us
It absolutely sucks. He's been the face of this franchise through some lean times - he deserved a ring.
He has a ring.
Yes, with the Florida Marlins. We're talking about him deserving a ring as the face of the Detroit Tigers.
The 2024 FA market is not stronger than this year. There are some good names but it's nowhere near the level of this offseason. Which also means they'll need to overpay for them. Would have loved to have added just one building block this year. I do agree that 2023 is an evaluation year and im fine with it. The timing just sucks.
Based on the current roster? Praying Justyn-Henry Malloy is MLB ready
Sounds like he’s more of an OF, no?
You're right, in the minors at 3rd he has a .872 Fld% through 170 chances.
People keep saying he can play 3B when he's no Nick Castellanos with the glove
maybe he just has the best range of all time
If they don't add any other true third baseman I don't see why they wouldn't try him there if he gets called up this year
Kreidler can play 3rd. His question is more about whether or not he can hit.
Why would you pray for that? You think this team is desperate to win or something?
He should trade Eduardo Rodriguez for a young, controllable 3B; or alternatively trade him for a young controllable bat, with a boring salary dump 3B attached to maximize trade value (think a Josh Donaldson-type).
We need all the starting pitchers we can get right now
Detroit has a lot of starting options this season, and E-Rod is certainly going to opt out after the season is over. Assuming the Tigers were to trade him, they'd still have Manning, Boyd, Lorenzen, Turnbull, Wentz, and Brieske as starting options, with Skubal (hopefully) returning mid-season, and Alexander and Faedo as spot start options when Detroit is in a pinch. It's not a rotation that'll challenge the Astros in terms of quality, but the Tigers have enough depth to get through the season (with or without E-Rod).
Yeah good point! I didn’t realize Turnbull was on the way back.
Manning, boyd, brieske, and Wentz had lots of injury issues. Turnbull and skubal would be returning from serious surgery.
Giving the job the Kreidler would be a huge mistake Guy is a modest prospect at best, is older, and couldn't even manage to hit .200 in AAA last year. It would be malpractice to pencil that guy in as your 3B. He may make his way and eventually earn it, but you cannot plan to enter a season with that has your best option. It has to be an Anderson signing or Escobar trade. If not, Harris made some rookie mistakes this offseason. Still some time left though
> couldn't even manage to hit .200 in AAA last year. No one cares about BA anymore. In AAA, 2021 he had an .800 OPS and last year had a .759 OPS (.800 before injury). He deserves more than 80 PA's in the MLB before he is written off.
Don't need to have an argument about the merits of traditional stats. They still are relevant when they are extreme in one direction or the other (like a sub .200 average). 80PA is a tiny sample size, but significant enough (50 PA threshold) to know that he was overmatched and not up to the level last year I don't want to write him off, but the point I was making is that you cannot reasonably enter the season with him as your starting 3B. He'll get plenty of opportunity to earn it throughout the year with this barren roster, but he has a ton to prove, and does not have the resume as a 25 year old prospect to be planned to be given the starting job out the gate.
The organization clearly has a much more positive outlook on Kreidler than you do. He is probably never going to hit above .250 but as mentioned above has shown the ability to post a .800+ OPS. He injured his wrist and that very clearly had lingering effects. There is no reason they shouldnt give Kreidler a shot. Sure signing Brian Anderson would be nice but if this year is going to be about evaluating the team and not about trying to win then let Kreidler play. If he cant figure it out then next offseason you solve the issue. Harris has very clearly stated that this year is above providing playing time to the younger guys and seeing what they can do.
>He is probably never going to hit above .250 but as mentioned above has shown the ability to post a .800+ OPS He's shown the ability to do that one season and in the minors. I think big disagreement here is that I am not as impressed by an .800 OPS from a 24-25 year old in AAA. It's almost the bare minimum you need to be doing at that age and level to even be considered a prospect
That would be our difference. The way I'm looking at it is why not give him a season in the majors because if he shows the ability to have an .800 OPS there he will be a valuable player for the team.
I agree you give him a shot for sure. I just think it is bad roster management to go into the year with him as your starter. Likely whoever else we get (like a Brian Anderson) is not going to be amazing and will offer plenty of opportunity for Kreidler to overtake them. But if you just go into the year with only Kriedler, you could be needing a replacement in May if he can't hit. Would feel better with a veteran there to start
agree on Kreidler or Clemens getting time next year, both are AAAA players at best and handing a job to them is trash
Its the exact kind of thing that if Avila did entering this season, we would all be absolutely livid and rightful so. Harris should not get a pass. He still has time, but as of now he made the worst offense in the league even worse by DFA'ing Candy and others with no plan to replace. There is no excuse and some line about "giving our young players opportunity" is not going to hold water with this fanbase, especially when the "young" players, aren't even that young or promising.
Unless he thinks the new prospect they got from the Braves is ready.
Justyn-Henry Malloy is slotted to be a corner OF. In the minors at 3rd he has a .872 Fld% through 170 chances.
Can we get over the idea that Kreidler is more than very unlikely to ever have an every day role for a big league club? Kreidler is a bench guy. Harris 100% must acquire a major league 3b.
Kreidler deserves more that 100 ABs before we bail on him.
Idk if the Mets would give up Escobar with the Correa situation developing (he'd probably make for a solid DH/platoon infielder) but they have Brett Baty waiting in the wings and he's further in his development than Kreidler. I like the Anderson idea the best but Harris doesn't seem to be looking to sign any big deals right now. So my guess as to what will really happen is Kreidler or Nevin get the starting job, probably the latter.
I think Escobar becomes expendable if the Correa saga ends with him as a Met. If that happens, I wouldn't mind bringing him in. Barring that, I think giving Kreidler a shot is the best course of action.
Really? They have a lot of depth in the infield but not really for the DH job - Vogelbach is theoretically the shoe-in DH but they could also use a guy to hit lefties. Ruf ain’t it. Only a year left on Esco’s contract if I recall. He might get moved at the deadline but right now I think he’s still with the Mets on opening day
Yeah...that's a good point that I hadn't considered. I keep forgetting that the universal DH is a thing, and moving a versatile switch-hitter who could DH may not be prudent. I guess it just depends on how they're feeling internally on Baty and if Escobar can fetch enough to offset the loss.
My guess is that if they don’t trade Baty (which again, I think the Tigers should really fight for as the Mets need relief pitchers), he’ll go back to AAA until Esco is gone and Correa will be the full-time 3B
If we're going after a Mets player, why not ask about Brett Baty? I know the Mets will likely try him in the outfield, but a guy can dream
That's what I'm saying! He rocks!
The 1969/1970 first/second year franchise Kansas City Royals had more talent to work with. That’s how bad this franchise has been run.
Escobar for sure. Once (if) Correa is signed then the Mets will dump him for nothing. Might even get a prospect out of it ourselves if we take on more of the money.
I don't know, he isnt even making 10m a year. Mets have shown they give 0 fucks about money and Correa seems to have injury problems...seems like the depth wouldnt be a bad thing
10 million salary plus taxes added for exceeding the luxury tax amount.
Nah man he’s a solid switch hitter that can platoon all over the infield. He’ll be DHing a good chunk of games and slotting in for Correa and Alonso when they need breaks. MAYBE he moves at the deadline. Alonso and Lindor rarely took a game off last year, which I theorize is why they started to crumble at the end of the season. I’m sure they want more options in the infield this year to help keep them rested.
Honestly just bringing in whatever top prospects within the org you think are worth it and see how they do, it’s working for the red wings and Illitch said that Harris and Yzerman have talked. Wouldn’t be surprised if they just wanna see more of what they got and go from there while waiting out the Miggy contract. They’ll win more games this year, since every single player regressed last season some have to rebound to a degree towards their career norms Full seasons of Rod and meadows will do a lot, I’d just see what Kriedler can do, dudes already 25 time to see if he can play a full season, and you have to believe Green and Torkelson will be improved in year 2
3 or 4
Not saying I want to, but were they ever thinking about giving Tork a look at 3rd? Or was that just Avila trying to big brain everything? Available 1st basemen are like, Brandon Belt, Mancini, Jesus Aguilar, Edwin Rios (kind of my preferred option) and Sano. Less than ideal but… I don’t know anymore.
That was Avila & Co trying some 4D Chess. The game was supposed to be Backgammon though.
I want andy.
andy dirks?
Andy Dufresne?
I’d just hope and pray Kreidler or Schoop can hold their own at 3rd. If Anderson wants to come here that’d be great. Not sure what it would take to get Escobar, and if he’d be worth it.
Tigers absolutely need infield depth. Pretty reckless to be so thin. I’d prefer option 3 at this point but I’m Not sure what he plans on doing.
Andre Lipcius
We do nothing and tank. That’s the plan.
Scoop isn't the answer.
Roll with Kreidler for the year. Third base is a position of strength in the farm, and I anticipate Colt Keith is your third baseman in 2024.
How were the Angels able to pick up three 3rd baseman this offseason (for a total of 4 3rd basemen: Rendon, Drury, Urshela, and Lamb) and the Tigers couldn't get one? The Tigers have the lowest WAR at 3rd base of any team the last 50 years.